Oliver Holt on Sunday Supplement 23/1/2011

[Concrete John]

That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.

Well, possibly!
The fact is, we just don't know, it's all conjecture.
Hopefully, in a few years, we'll get the story from someones biography.

I still like my version though, if only because it makes O'Neill look like the utter c*** he undoubtedly was for fucking off when he did. 

That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager.  I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some.  So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.

If anything the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  Yet as I said the other day it does seem that Randy has had something of a rethink as the wages issue has hit the backburner in favour of the immediate problems the side is having.  But that's to his credit as he's putting playing matters first and doesn't mean the same was happening in the summer. 

[Dave Cooper please]

That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager.  I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some.  So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.

No. You are falling into the same trap that you are trying to lure the supposed 'MON Haters' into.
I do not, in any way, think that O'Neill deliberately went out of his way to fuck our club up. That his actions did exactly that is just a consequence of his stubborn, belligerent nature.
 He couldn't get his way, he walked. I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

[JUAN PABLO]

Just watching it now..  First class c**t   ..     knows fook all..  the other 3 twats aint much better ..

Thank Fook we didnt buy Jo for 18 million.... 

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.

[Concrete John]

That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager.  I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some.  So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.

No. You are falling into the same trap that you are trying to lure the supposed 'MON Haters' into.
I do not, in any way, think that O'Neill deliberately went out of his way to fuck our club up. That his actions did exactly that is just a consequence of his stubborn, belligerent nature.
 He couldn't get his way, he walked. I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

I'm not trying to lure anyone into anything - it's just an observation.  MON split opinion when our manager and did the same with the way and timing in which he left.  I've seen such comments as people thinking they've "been proved 100% right about him" by how he left, yet the debates we used to have were about ability as opposed to character.  It is a generalisation, and I'm sure there are plenty of those who thought he was doing well who also think he was a shit for leaving, but by the same token I haven't seen anyone who was a 'MON hater' as you put it falling on the side of thinking he was anything other than totally unjustified. 

[Concrete John]

I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.

I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept.  They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances?  As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.

[dave.woodhall]

I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.

I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept.  They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances?  As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.

What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.

[Ian.]

I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.

I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept.  They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances?  As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.

What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.

Quite right, I'm sure the assistant manager, right hand man normally takes the reigns as caretaker?

[El Hurricane]

Checkout the Oliver Holt is a twat facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26750889305&v=wall&viewas=0

[Chris Smith]

So are we suggesting that Robertson etc wanted to stay but that MON forced them to leave? Seems a bit fanciful to me. More likely they feel a sense of loyalty to the man as he's taken them with him everywhere he's worked and so theyvfollowed him out the door.

[eamonn]

I think it was more to do with MON being told what to do with his squad, ie get rid of the big wage players who aren't playing, by someone who is almost half his age and has little football experience.

Yeah, Faulkner coming in and acting as a middle man between MON and Lerner very possibly put O'Neill's nose out of joint for the reasons you mention.

[eamonn]

I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.

You keep saying this.
How about - Randy was willing to give MON the extra season that a third consecutive 6th place finish deserved, but he also wanted MON to admit to his numerous transfer mistakes and move them on before committing more cash? Just as valid as "It's all about the wage bill" surely? Especially as we know that O'Neill is a stubborn bastard who will never admit to a mistake.

That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.

Aren't both of you saying, to a greater degree, the same thing?
Until MON got rid of the deadwood (or alternatively promised to give them more games and so earn their wages) Lerner would keep the brakes on the spending.

[Concrete John]

I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.

Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.

I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept.  They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances?  As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.

What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.

A little different, IMO, as they're a team that has worked together for years.  Still, if either had wanted to stay I very much doubt their contract was linked to MON's.

[Ian.]

Whatever happened, we may never know, but one thing is for sure MON did not take into consideration the fans or any of staff when he walked out on Aston Villa.

[dave.woodhall]

A little different, IMO, as they're a team that has worked together for years.  Still, if either had wanted to stay I very much doubt their contract was linked to MON's.

Unlike, say, Allan Evans and Brian Little? David O'Leary and Roy Aitken? Ron Saunders and Tony Barton?