Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Trinitymiddle on January 23, 2011, 01:45:05 PM
-
Surprised there's not been a thread started on this.
Anyone see it today. More uninformed drivel coming out of Mr.Holt's mouth. You'd think with his surname he might actually like the Villa, but every sentance he utters about us is an attack on the club and the Chairman, or praising MON.
There were 2 other guys on there, but Holt hogged the Villa chat. Claimed the purchase of Bent was"'an admission of defeat" by Randy. He also said that "Lerner and his henchmen" lies had been "blown wide open" in their statemens about salary to turnover ratio needing to be reduced because we have signed Bent and Ireland. Holt makes no allowance for the fact that we have got rid of Milner, Sidwell and Carew in the same time frame, with more likely to go this month.
Another journalist said that the £30million GH has spent (interesting that Bent is a £24m player now and not an £18m player) this transfer window is more than MON has spent in "a couple of seasons".
Generally they concluded that Lerner had got it all wrong, MON was totally justified in walking out and that we will survive this season because Lerner had learnt his lesson "the hard way"
Oliver Holt is supposed to be a well respected journalist, yet every time he talks about the Villa his views are biased (he is clearly one of MON's mouhpieces) ill informed, and his arguments are lacking in logic. If i did my job as badly as he did, I'd be out of work.
The guy is an odious smug little creep
-
Yea.
Made a post earlier on this. To be honest, as soon as the titles finished I was just waiting for him to get stuck into us.
Odious, smug, little creep sums him up well.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
-
Just let it wash over us.
They'll be choking on their words soon mark my words!
-
I'd love too meet him, I'd have an answer for every critism he has, id have him, admitting defeat with regards to his views on Villa, especilly Randy.
-
He's been getting away with this crap all season.
-
He's an absolute tool. He's irrelevant.
Pay him no heed, as he deserves.
-
just looked at wikipedia to find out who he works for, and someone has been having some fun...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Holt
-
he is utter garbage at what he does...
-
He just looks like a tool.
-
I saw some of this but had to turn over.
The ignorance of some 'pundits' and 'journalists' is staggering.
The trouble is some folk will believe them.
-
Has he heard of research? I realise it may be an alien concept for somebody who thinks they already know it all, but it might be advisable as some of the rubbish he spouts is bordering on slander/libel. He's either an idiot or a liar.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
-
The man is a clown of the highest order.
Should come as no surprise to anyone as he is a key player in 'Team MON'
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
Norris probably knows more about football than Holt.
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
Yep, I'm sure one of our regular posters showed how there was no nepotism at all in him getting his first jobs and being related to her.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
Do you really believe that, Mac? He might be a friend of his but this idea that it's some sort of orchestrated campaign with Martin O'Neill running it all from his secret bunker sounds a bit daft to me.
-
Kissing the badge, then leaving is a problem to Holt apparently.
When 'challenged' that maybe, just maybe he ( Bent) had fallen out with spud face, he brushed this aside.
The man is full of contradictions.
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
I wonder if Richard Hillman does contract work...
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
Do you really believe that, Mac? He might be a friend of his but this idea that it's some sort of orchestrated campaign with Martin O'Neill running it all from his secret bunker sounds a bit daft to me.
What I do believe is that he is mirroring (no pun intended) MON's opinion. He's obviously a very bitter man and the sooner he gets another job the better. If you repeat a lie often enough people start to believe it. I heard Andy Townsend last night question whether Randy regrets not giving MON more money.
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
Yep, I'm sure one of our regular posters showed how there was no nepotism at all in him getting his first jobs and being related to her.
Emily Bishop - possibly the most boring character in Coronation Street.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
Do you really believe that, Mac? He might be a friend of his but this idea that it's some sort of orchestrated campaign with Martin O'Neill running it all from his secret bunker sounds a bit daft to me.
What I do believe is that he is mirroring (no pun intended) MON's opinion. He's obviously a very bitter man and the sooner he gets another job the better. If you repeat a lie often enough people start to believe it. I heard Andy Townsend last night question whether Randy regrets not giving MON more money.
Winter, that bald headed Sweaty Patrick Barclay and Oliver Dolt are all key members of team MON.
They probably queue up to give his bell end a buffing.
-
Is he really Emily Bishop's son?
Yep, I'm sure one of our regular posters showed how there was no nepotism at all in him getting his first jobs and being related to her.
Emily Bishop - possibly the most boring character in Coronation Street.
I wish Hillman had killed her back in the day instead of lovely, ditzy Maxine. Or she'd stayed stuck up that tree on the Red Rec.
She's had that doleful look on her face for years, even before her beloved Ernest died.
-
I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask if Randy might regret nit allowing MiON to spend in the summer. He might answer that he's happy with where we are now but I think we all know we wouldn't be worrying about relegation if he had. I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
-
The same sort of nonsense appeared on Goals on Sunday. All 3 wondering why MON never got the cash. Andy (Andrew?) Cole then pointed out that "He's also bought that French boy from Lyon" and it appeared that Kamara and the other clown had not the slightest idea what he was talking about.
-
Another of mons press friends talking utter bollocks- the London press have very little idea about anything going on in the midlands , and holt is probably the most clueless of them all-total idiotic prick!
Win at Wigan and we are 2 points off top 8 , then they will turn their attention to everton- I'd like to see what they say if we do finish top 7 and qualify for Europe.
-
I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask if Randy might regret nit allowing MiON to spend in the summer. He might answer that he's happy with where we are now but I think we all know we wouldn't be worrying about relegation if he had. I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
The money's always been there. Randy just wasn't going to give MON any more of it to piss up the wall.
-
Chris Smith's iPad is channelling the policeman from Allo Allo. On the other hand he is making more sense than usual.
-
I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask if Randy might regret nit allowing MiON to spend in the summer. He might answer that he's happy with where we are now but I think we all know we wouldn't be worrying about relegation if he had. I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
Problem with that Chris is that RL said in May money would be available and GK confirmed as much again throughout the summer.
On this and other forums, when transfer silly season was well under way.
So unless he was saying one thing and actually doing something else, unless MON is miffed at broken promises (and I haven't heard him say that), I don't see the issue.
RL was prepared to back MON again in the summer but this time, along with a number of other clubs, conditions were attached to that backing that first MON could live with and then seemingly he couldn't.
Based on his record since 2006, the volumes he's spent and the frequency in which he spent it, this latest investment doesn't look like a change of policy on his behalf. Which is what you and a few others are seeming to suggest. Rather, it looks like a continuation of what came before. That is, for RL to keep as low a profile as possible and to back the guy responsible for playing matters with the resources to do his job.
-
Oliver Holt writes for The Mirror. What else needs to be said about him?
-
That he's a bird-headed bell end?
-
He stinks of piss and has got no friends?
-
Oliver Holt writes for The Mirror. What else needs to be said about him?
Imo, The Mirror was once a good newspaper, now it's just a nasty, spiteful newspaper that likes to portray itself as a 'better quality' tabloid.
-
Did anyone see goals on Sunday after the Sunday supplement?
Funny how the opinions of footballers differ to that of the press.
Andy cole said that bent's record speaks for itself and didn't really bat an eye lid at the price. He then went on (I forgot who he mentioned) but mentioned a man city player and that just because it's man city no one has mentioned the cost. Think he was referring to Adebayor and the price of him and what he's returned in goals. But I'm not sure.
There was this revelation on kammy's face when Andy mentioned it as if , aye yes, I forgot about that.
-
Winter, that bald headed Sweaty Patrick Barclay and Oliver Dolt are all key members of team MON.
Don't forget Sandy Macaskill from the Telegraph
-
We aren't the only supporters who dislike Oliver Holt,just put Oliver Holt c**t into Google and see what you get.
-
We aren't the only supporters who dislike Oliver Holt,just put Oliver Holt c**t into Google and see what you get.
see also t**t and p***k
-
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26750889305
I think we should send Oliver Holt to sort out the Middle East crisis. If he can unite Man City and United fans in belief in his twat status he clearly has a future in international peace keeping.
-
I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
You keep saying this.
How about - Randy was willing to give MON the extra season that a third consecutive 6th place finish deserved, but he also wanted MON to admit to his numerous transfer mistakes and move them on before committing more cash? Just as valid as "It's all about the wage bill" surely? Especially as we know that O'Neill is a stubborn bastard who will never admit to a mistake.
-
I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
You keep saying this.
How about - Randy was willing to give MON the extra season that a third consecutive 6th place finish deserved, but he also wanted MON to admit to his numerous transfer mistakes and move them on before committing more cash? Just as valid as "It's all about the wage bill" surely? Especially as we know that O'Neill is a stubborn bastard who will never admit to a mistake.
That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.
-
I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
You keep saying this.
How about - Randy was willing to give MON the extra season that a third consecutive 6th place finish deserved, but he also wanted MON to admit to his numerous transfer mistakes and move them on before committing more cash? Just as valid as "It's all about the wage bill" surely? Especially as we know that O'Neill is a stubborn bastard who will never admit to a mistake.
Didn't Paul Faulkner take over responsibility for transfers when he became CEO in May?
-
We all need to develop that seige mentality and prove the fuckers wrong, players, staff, owner, fans we're all in this together against C***s such as Holt
-
That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.
Well, possibly!
The fact is, we just don't know, it's all conjecture.
Hopefully, in a few years, we'll get the story from someones biography.
I still like my version though, if only because it makes O'Neill look like the utter ****** he undoubtedly was for fucking off when he did.
-
I think it was more to do with MON being told what to do with his squad, ie get rid of the big wage players who aren't playing, by someone who is almost half his age and has little football experience.
-
That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.
Well, possibly!
The fact is, we just don't know, it's all conjecture.
Hopefully, in a few years, we'll get the story from someones biography.
I still like my version though, if only because it makes O'Neill look like the utter c*** he undoubtedly was for fucking off when he did.
That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager. I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some. So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.
If anything the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Yet as I said the other day it does seem that Randy has had something of a rethink as the wages issue has hit the backburner in favour of the immediate problems the side is having. But that's to his credit as he's putting playing matters first and doesn't mean the same was happening in the summer.
-
That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager. I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some. So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.
No. You are falling into the same trap that you are trying to lure the supposed 'MON Haters' into.
I do not, in any way, think that O'Neill deliberately went out of his way to fuck our club up. That his actions did exactly that is just a consequence of his stubborn, belligerent nature.
He couldn't get his way, he walked. I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
-
Just watching it now.. First class c**t .. knows fook all.. the other 3 twats aint much better ..
Thank Fook we didnt buy Jo for 18 million....
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
-
That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager. I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some. So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.
No. You are falling into the same trap that you are trying to lure the supposed 'MON Haters' into.
I do not, in any way, think that O'Neill deliberately went out of his way to fuck our club up. That his actions did exactly that is just a consequence of his stubborn, belligerent nature.
He couldn't get his way, he walked. I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
I'm not trying to lure anyone into anything - it's just an observation. MON split opinion when our manager and did the same with the way and timing in which he left. I've seen such comments as people thinking they've "been proved 100% right about him" by how he left, yet the debates we used to have were about ability as opposed to character. It is a generalisation, and I'm sure there are plenty of those who thought he was doing well who also think he was a shit for leaving, but by the same token I haven't seen anyone who was a 'MON hater' as you put it falling on the side of thinking he was anything other than totally unjustified.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.
Quite right, I'm sure the assistant manager, right hand man normally takes the reigns as caretaker?
-
Checkout the Oliver Holt is a twat facebook page.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26750889305&v=wall&viewas=0
-
So are we suggesting that Robertson etc wanted to stay but that MON forced them to leave? Seems a bit fanciful to me. More likely they feel a sense of loyalty to the man as he's taken them with him everywhere he's worked and so theyvfollowed him out the door.
-
I think it was more to do with MON being told what to do with his squad, ie get rid of the big wage players who aren't playing, by someone who is almost half his age and has little football experience.
Yeah, Faulkner coming in and acting as a middle man between MON and Lerner very possibly put O'Neill's nose out of joint for the reasons you mention.
-
I can't get past the thought that if Randy didn't trust him then he would have acted so it really was all about the wage bill.
You keep saying this.
How about - Randy was willing to give MON the extra season that a third consecutive 6th place finish deserved, but he also wanted MON to admit to his numerous transfer mistakes and move them on before committing more cash? Just as valid as "It's all about the wage bill" surely? Especially as we know that O'Neill is a stubborn bastard who will never admit to a mistake.
That would suggest that he was interfering in team affairs. I don't think that's his style so I think my version is more likely. They wanted us to bring the wage bill down before we bought anyone else. MON agreed but when they hadn't been able to shift anyone by the start of August he looked at it from a football rather than financial standpoint and was told that he still had to wait so he fucked off. That's what I think Randy meant when he talked about no longer sharing the same vision.
Aren't both of you saying, to a greater degree, the same thing?
Until MON got rid of the deadwood (or alternatively promised to give them more games and so earn their wages) Lerner would keep the brakes on the spending.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.
A little different, IMO, as they're a team that has worked together for years. Still, if either had wanted to stay I very much doubt their contract was linked to MON's.
-
Whatever happened, we may never know, but one thing is for sure MON did not take into consideration the fans or any of staff when he walked out on Aston Villa.
-
A little different, IMO, as they're a team that has worked together for years. Still, if either had wanted to stay I very much doubt their contract was linked to MON's.
Unlike, say, Allan Evans and Brian Little? David O'Leary and Roy Aitken? Ron Saunders and Tony Barton?
-
So are we suggesting that Robertson etc wanted to stay but that MON forced them to leave? Seems a bit fanciful to me. More likely they feel a sense of loyalty to the man as he's taken them with him everywhere he's worked and so theyvfollowed him out the door.
No he hasn't.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
What usually happens in such circumstances is that the backroom staff stay until another manager takes over. That's what happened when every other manager I can remember has left us.
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
I doubt any of them would have been capable and would have been like headless chickens when their joint head was cut off.
-
Whatever happened, we may never know, but one thing is for sure MON did not take into consideration the fans or any of staff when he walked out on Aston Villa.
At the end of the day it was his "job" and he didnt want to do the job any more so he walked, im sure he discussed it with
John Robertson.....if you dont want to do a job anymore you leave as for "considering the fans" thats "tosh" im afraid
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
When DOL left, Roy Aitken took over and in the few games in charge had us playing some wonderful stuff. I'll always respect him for those few weeks as he showed loyalty to the club that paid him handsomely rather than the manager.
No harm done? I'm sure Kevin MacDonald could have done without the shit he was left to pick up. An extra pair of hands would have been most welcome, I'm sure, even if they were the cigarette stained hands of Robertson.
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
-
Whatever happened, we may never know, but one thing is for sure MON did not take into consideration the fans or any of staff when he walked out on Aston Villa.
At the end of the day it was his "job" and he didnt want to do the job any more so he walked, im sure he discussed it with
John Robertson.....if you dont want to do a job anymore you leave as for "considering the fans" thats "tosh" im afraid
Maybe so, I just wish he left at the end of last season when the rumours were rife that he would leave.
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
That's a shame, Robbo could have stoically prolonged the regime, Doenitz-like.
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
Did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go?
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
Did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go?
Im sure they left with MON as he had quit, they all work together as a unit
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
Did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go?
They left of their own accord. It was said at the time that they left us in such a state there weren't enough coaches to cover the squad.
-
It is a real nose/spite/face scenario too. At least if you wait for the push from the incoming boss, you get some kind of redundo. This lot walked and got nothing, and as far as we know are still living on fresh air and self-righteousness.
-
It is a real nose/spite/face scenario too. At least if you wait for the push from the incoming boss, you get some kind of redundo. This lot walked and got nothing, and as far as we know are still living on fresh air and self-righteousness.
Having seen the loyalty MON inspires in the press this week, maybe we shouldn't be surprised he inspires it in Robbo and Walford as well.
-
A little different, IMO, as they're a team that has worked together for years. Still, if either had wanted to stay I very much doubt their contract was linked to MON's.
Unlike, say, Allan Evans and Brian Little? David O'Leary and Roy Aitken? Ron Saunders and Tony Barton?
I think the relationship and bond of that team was far greater than in any of the examples you mention.
And what are we saying anyway? That we wanted them to stay and help K-Mac, which wouldn't have worked given the differing playing styles, or that MON was to blame for putting pressure on them to walk with him?
-
I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
Yeah that would be why he took the 5 backroom staff with him five days before the season started. He may not have wanted to do any long term damage to Aston Villa but he sure wanted to teach Randy Lerner a lesson.
I always disliked this 'took them with him' concept. They are his staff and were always likely to follow, but would Randy or anyone else have wanted them to stay under the circumstances? As it goes I doubt Robertson or Walford would have done any better than K-Mac did, so no harm was done there.
When DOL left, Roy Aitken took over and in the few games in charge had us playing some wonderful stuff. I'll always respect him for those few weeks as he showed loyalty to the club that paid him handsomely rather than the manager.
No harm done? I'm sure Kevin MacDonald could have done without the shit he was left to pick up. An extra pair of hands would have been most welcome, I'm sure, even if they were the cigarette stained hands of Robertson.
I remember KM saying that at one point, he was coaching three or four different levels of the club in one day, from first team downwards, we were so short of actual bodies.
-
That's the thing though, isn't it - our views of the reasoning behind his departure our naturally tempered by our views og him as our manager. I saw very little argument about his character while our manager, although we did have many a heated debate over his abilities, yet now he's the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold to some. So if you liked him you have a few such as Chris Smith's, which I share, but if you didn't it was all Martin's fault and he delibrately sabotaged the club.
No. You are falling into the same trap that you are trying to lure the supposed 'MON Haters' into.
I do not, in any way, think that O'Neill deliberately went out of his way to fuck our club up. That his actions did exactly that is just a consequence of his stubborn, belligerent nature.
He couldn't get his way, he walked. I don't think the long term prospects of Aston Villa were even in his mind as he went his merry way, making sure that his reputation was intact amongst those that matter (mainly the press) as he went.
I wonder how much thought he gave us, the supporters, when deciding to leave when he did?
One thing which is the case throughout football, is that the supporters and their feelings count for absolutely fuck all.
-
I wonder how much thought he gave us, the supporters, when deciding to leave when he did?
Nothing, absolutely no thought at all, if he had thought about us, even for a minute, he might not have dropped us so spectacularly into the shit.
O'Neill's thoughts were entirely about O'Neill, and how he could maintain his reputation as the New Brian Clough.
-
Holt is to journalism what Steve Bruce is to beauty competitions.
-
I wonder how much thought he gave us, the supporters, when deciding to leave when he did?
Nothing, absolutely no thought at all, if he had thought about us, even for a minute, he might not have dropped us so spectacularly into the shit.
O'Neill's thoughts were entirely about O'Neill, and how he could maintain his reputation as the New Brian Clough.
Can you point me in the direction of any managerial changes or transfers where the protagonists put the feelings of the supporters before their own interests/emotions?
-
but did they leave of their own accord or did the board want them to go? I seem to recall reading that they officially left a couple of days later after negotiating a pay-off.
They all left together.
That's a shame, Robbo could have stoically prolonged the regime, Doenitz-like.
Dangerously close to contravening Godwin's Law there paulie.
"Having sold Milner, Lerner will grant me the necessary funds to swoop for Kenny Miller and Aiden McGeady and we can commence our assault on 5th spot in the coming season."
*nervous glances exchanged by top brass*
"Martin... Lerner..."
"Lerner won't permit any more signings. Not until some of the deadwood in the squad is cleared out anyway."
*haltingly removes spectacles*
"I want everyone to leave the room except Robertson, Walford, Petrov and Doogan."
etc etc
-
I wonder how much thought he gave us, the supporters, when deciding to leave when he did?
Nothing, absolutely no thought at all, if he had thought about us, even for a minute, he might not have dropped us so spectacularly into the shit.
O'Neill's thoughts were entirely about O'Neill, and how he could maintain his reputation as the New Brian Clough.
Can you point me in the direction of any managerial changes or transfers where the protagonists put the feelings of the supporters before their own interests/emotions?
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
-
Time to boycott Oliver Holt?
-
I hope by "Boycott" him you mean smash the clueless, ignorant minge in his fat mug with a beautifully timed square cut.
-
I don't even think the other journos are too keen on Holt, a couple of times I've seen them get annoyed by his general aresyness. He'd love it though if he knew we had a thread dedicated to him, better just to ignore the twat.
-
Quick thoughts...
1. Holt used to be quite good, a few years ago. I don't know what's happened to him recently, he seems to have lost it.
2. This group of journalists, who all seem to share one opinion - not surprising, given that I have an insight in to how they work on the big nationals - are overlooking not only the funds MON was given, but how he spent those funds; signing a new back four one year, then signing a whole new back four a year afterwards. He was wasteful, in many ways. We saw that. It's no shocker that the board did, too.
3. It's incredible that so many are overlooking simple mathematics here. There hasn't been a huge new transfer 'war chest' made available. We've simply re-invested the Milner money in Bent. There has been no massive change in policy.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
That wasn't 5 days before the season started though. Nowhere near as bad as what that ****** done to us.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
That wasn't 5 days before the season started though. Nowhere near as bad as what that c*** done to us.
It lead to them getting relegated, so yes it was.
-
The only way we are going to see an end to this MON love in by the media and pundits alike is if and when he gets the Liverpool job.
If he's not the roaring success that the same would have us believe then the tide might begin to turn. However, in Holt's case, he'd more than likely blame the Villa and Randy for turning him into a bad manager.
-
I've a sneaking feeling if the Rags lose to West Ham in the cup, MON could be replacing McLeish on the toilet at the Sty. Stranger things have happened.
-
The only way we are going to see an end to this MON love in by the media and pundits alike is if and when he gets the Liverpool job.
If he's not the roaring success that the same would have us believe then the tide might begin to turn.
Not a chance, they'd blame the owners.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
Appointing Brian Laws did for them.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
Appointing Brian Laws did for them.
If Coyle hadn't walked out then they wouldn't have had to appoint him.
I think we're all a bit too precious about this. Fans are quick to call for managers to be sacked without any thought for the timing or consequences to them, we even had some loons wanting MON to be given the boot for "only" finishing sixth. I don't think we can then complain if they go on their own terms.
I liked him but he's gone and now I'm only interested in what GH can do.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
Coyle didn't take his entire coaching staff with him and left with Burnley in a decent position in the league, that they spectacularly cocked up their next managerial appointment wasn't Coyle's fault.
It was a shit thing to do so soon after signing a new contract though, I'll give you that.
-
Havent bothered reading a single word whats been said on this thread at all.
Just saw the name Oliver Holt. Whatever hes said, its complete and urtter garbage. Cant stand the irritating twat.
-
I don't even think the other journos are too keen on Holt, a couple of times I've seen them get annoyed by his general aresyness. He'd love it though if he knew we had a thread dedicated to him, better just to ignore the twat.
Have to agree with this. You know, I know, and most sane people know that he talks shite, so why bother taking any notice of him?
-
I don't even think the other journos are too keen on Holt, a couple of times I've seen them get annoyed by his general aresyness. He'd love it though if he knew we had a thread dedicated to him, better just to ignore the twat.
Have to agree with this. You know, I know, and most sane people know that he talks shite, so why bother taking any notice of him?
He does talk shit, but we're bound to react when he takes the piss out of the club we love.
He also has an eminently kickable face.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
When MON and Randy first started working together he was eulogising about our bright future and how the good times were going to be coming back to Villa Park. I wonder how he'd judge the MON years now? Would we get the usual pro-MON 'Villa were lucky to have him'? 'they should be so lucky to have finished as high as 6th'? etc etc Since MON left Holt just pours out anti-Lerner bile. His Mirror coloumn was full of the same rubbish. Sod him.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
Coyle didn't take his entire coaching staff with him and left with Burnley in a decent position in the league, that they spectacularly cocked up their next managerial appointment wasn't Coyle's fault.
It was a shit thing to do so soon after signing a new contract though, I'll give you that.
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
Yet it was Martin's fault that Randy did cock up the apointment, or at least appeared to have done until recently? So are we saying that mid season Burnley was a more attractive proposition than Villa with 38 games to go?
Sorry - I just don't and never will agree with others view of the timing of it being an excuse for our woeful form this season.
-
Sorry - I just don't and never will agree with others view of the timing of it being an excuse for our woeful form this season.
It doesn't fully explain it, but I can't believe anyone thinks it had nothing to do with it.
As for him not taking them with him, they went when he went - the ultimate result was the entire football staff leaving at the same time.
Whether it was out of loyalty to him or because he asked them to, I don't know. I was more concerned about the effect on the club.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
-
Its actually quite sad how ill informed he is.
Except he's not ill-informed. He's spinning for the MON PR machine.
When MON and Randy first started working together he was eulogising about our bright future and how the good times were going to be coming back to Villa Park. I wonder how he'd judge the MON years now? Would we get the usual pro-MON 'Villa were lucky to have him'? 'they should be so lucky to have finished as high as 6th'? etc etc Since MON left Holt just pours out anti-Lerner bile. His Mirror coloumn was full of the same rubbish. Sod him.
There was, and still is, a feeling in Fleet Street that Martin was much bigger than Villa, and that we were really lucky to have him.
They're in their element now, as he's gone, and our poor form just gives them an excuse to stick the boot in to us. I read somewhere that in his relationships with the press, Martin wasn't bothered about the local press or most of the tabs, he'd just cultivate the best links he could with a small group of mostly broadsheet journalists.
Ultimately, I'll ignore twats like Holt, as I don't watch Sky Sports and I don't read his shit newspaper, but the amount of vitriol poured on the club this week has been beyond belief.
What is clear, though, is that for certain journalists, whatever happens, Martin wins.
We get relegated = "that's what happens when you lose someone like MON"
We stay up = "they'd have been 5th if they'd given MON that money"
We finish mid table = see above
We finish in the European places = "he's done it with MON's team, see, if Lerner had give MON that 24m, he'd probably have won the title for them"
We win the league = "What a shame they had to do it without MON, it would have been so right for a manager of his calibre to win the ultimate prize"
We can't even win when we spend money, with that whole "why didn't he give MON the money" line - none of them seem to have considered the possibility that money was always there, as the club said it was. Probably because that would be an admission that, actually, they were wrong.
I don't care if they're all massive Martin fans, and they've all got the right to write whatever they like, but when I see my club get such a concerted kicking (for having the sheer gall to go and buy a proven top notch goalscorer at a time when we desperately need one, rather than just lying down and letting relegation happen), it pisses me off. It also makes me think that a lot of these writers would really, really like us to go down, if only to give them even more of a reason to polish MON's crown.
Fuck the lot of them.
-
Could have been a power play from O'Neill that went wrong, expecting Randy to cave in.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
MON is like the Pharoahs of old, and Bagpuss.
When he goes, so do all those closest to him.
-
Whether it was out of loyalty to him or because he asked them to, I don't know. I was more concerned about the effect on the club.
As am I, which is why I think it's wrong to attach blame to the previous manager to the detriment of analysing our team and management structure and seeing what needs fixing.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Helped by having West Ham at home and with a full playing staff.
-
In his last days . . . O'Neill seems like some cannibal god, rejoicing in the ruin of his own temples. Almost his last orders were for execution: prisoners were to be slaughtered, his old surgeon was to be murdered, his own brother-in-law was executed, all traitors, without further specification, were to die. Like an ancient hero, O'Neill wished to be sent with human sacrifices to his grave; and the burning of his own body, which had never ceased to be the centre and totem of the Nazi state, was the logical and symbolical conclusion of the Revolution of Destruction.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Much better? That doesn't really tell the full story.
West Ham 3-0: yes, good performance, but against a team who make us look like Brazil 1970
Rapid Vienna - dumped out of Europe at the first hurdle
Newcastle 0-6: a six goal humuliation from a newly promoted club.
Everton 1-0: three quite fortunate points, if i recall correctly
Stoke 1-2: not good.
Bolton 1-1
-
Whether it was out of loyalty to him or because he asked them to, I don't know. I was more concerned about the effect on the club.
As am I, which is why I think it's wrong to attach blame to the previous manager to the detriment of analysing our team and management structure and seeing what needs fixing.
What do you mean by "blame"?
Any blame at all?
-
Its not an excuse for a woeful season but it was the reason or start was so indifferent. Then the board dithered and come up with an appointment that the jury is still out on. That affects player and supports morale and that in turn affects results. We are where we are because of firstly MON, then the board, then the players. In that chronological order.
-
West Ham 3-0: yes, good performance, but against a team who make us look like Brazil 1970
Mainly down to a MOTM performance from the much missed Milner.
-
Not that it matters but I had Albrighton down as MOM that game, by a mile.
-
I liked him but he's gone and now I'm only interested in what GH can do.
Strange that because you still try to justify Mon's existence at every opportunity.
-
Nope, but then again can you point me in the direction of a managerial walkout that left a club so totally buggered as O'Neill's?
Owen Coyle going to Bolton?
That wasn't 5 days before the season started though. Nowhere near as bad as what that c*** done to us.
It lead to them getting relegated, so yes it was.
If we avoid relegation it won't be down to Mon, but Houllier and Randy's choice of him.
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Helped by having West Ham at home and with a full playing staff.
Yes, but as the players have come back we've hardly been able to repeat that level of performance, despite also having the full coaching staff in place.
-
I liked him but he's gone and now I'm only interested in what GH can do.
Strange that because you still try to justify Mon's existence at every opportunity.
Justify his existance? I knew you were mental but I didn't realses you thought he was imaginary.
-
If we avoid relegation it won't be down to Mon, but Houllier and Randy's choice of him.
So if we get relegated, you won't be blaming MON?
-
Yes, but as the players have come back we've hardly been able to repeat that level of performance, despite also having the full coaching staff in place.
however, as they have regained match fitness in the last 4 games since having an almost fully fit squad, we have beaten man city, drawn with chelsea, drawn with small heath, and only lost a tight game against sunderland once we were down to 10 men... not to mention beating sheff utd in teh cup with 10 men...
and have improved in each of those games...
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Helped by having West Ham at home and with a full playing staff.
There was obviously an air of disillusionment about for weeks during pre-season. It has been quoted by others that rumours were doing the rounds in Portugal and the performance both by the team and MON himself in Dublin was quite amazing. The team were outplayed and outfought by the equivalent of a lower league team, most of whom had played the previous evening. MON came out, walked across the pitch to the dug out, remained seated for the entire match and at the end just got up and walked back across the width of the pitch to the tunnel/dressing rooms without so much as a cursory glance at the large numbers of supporters who had travelled. In fact, it was so obvious, that we commented on it at the time, as even on days when we had played rubbish and been beaten he had always made a point of clapping the fans who had followed the team.
I think there was a lot of uncertainty going on pre-season which meant that the players were not adequately prepared for the start of the season, either mentally or, in some cases, physically.
Take out the Milner inspired match against the rubbish team of Spammers and we looked like a bunch of players who had been thrown together and didn't know or want to be bothered making any effort for those first few weeks.
-
Good post, fredm.
Watching the Valencia friendly, I also thought at the time that it was odd seeing MON wearing a suit and sat up in the stand for a good chunk of the match
-
As we discussed a few pages back, he didn't 'take them with him', they also resigned of their own free will, although I think he would have known that would happen when he walked.
And as we agreed, the resignation of an entire football management team en masse, five days before the season started, is unique.
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Helped by having West Ham at home and with a full playing staff.
There was obviously an air of disillusionment about for weeks during pre-season. It has been quoted by others that rumours were doing the rounds in Portugal and the performance both by the team and MON himself in Dublin was quite amazing. The team were outplayed and outfought by the equivalent of a lower league team, most of whom had played the previous evening. MON came out, walked across the pitch to the dug out, remained seated for the entire match and at the end just got up and walked back across the width of the pitch to the tunnel/dressing rooms without so much as a cursory glance at the large numbers of supporters who had travelled. In fact, it was so obvious, that we commented on it at the time, as even on days when we had played rubbish and been beaten he had always made a point of clapping the fans who had followed the team.
I think there was a lot of uncertainty going on pre-season which meant that the players were not adequately prepared for the start of the season, either mentally or, in some cases, physically.
Take out the Milner inspired match against the rubbish team of Spammers and we looked like a bunch of players who had been thrown together and didn't know or want to be bothered making any effort for those first few weeks.
It's all well and good second guessing the motives behind gestures and actions and we can speculate on individuals personal thoughts/motivations. The fact remains that we won 3 and drew 1 of our first 6 games, if we had continued in that vein we would be alongside Chelsea and Spurs in the table. The squad went to pot after Gerard began implementing his changes.
-
If only we hadn't had to start playing Spurs and Arsenal. If only every game was West Ham at home.
-
If only we hadn't had to start playing Spurs and Arsenal. If only every game was West Ham at home.
I think we're getting away from the original point here, which was the effect of MON and his staffs departure had on our season. Results during that period, for whatever reason, were acceptable and only went really down hill after the new management team took charge. So that period of K-Mac doing everything but serving the pies has actually improved our position as it is now, as oposed to harmed it.
-
If only we hadn't had to start playing Spurs and Arsenal. If only every game was West Ham at home.
I think we're getting away from the original point here, which was the effect of MON and his staffs departure had on our season. Results during that period, for whatever reason, were acceptable and only went really down hill after the new management team took charge. So that period of K-Mac doing everything but serving the pies has actually improved our position as it is now, as oposed to harmed it.
We're not getting away from it; we're pointing out the flaws in your argument.
-
If only we hadn't had to start playing Spurs and Arsenal. If only every game was West Ham at home.
I think we're getting away from the original point here, which was the effect of MON and his staffs departure had on our season. Results during that period, for whatever reason, were acceptable and only went really down hill after the new management team took charge. So that period of K-Mac doing everything but serving the pies has actually improved our position as it is now, as oposed to harmed it.
Losing 6-0 to Newcastle is never going to be acceptable.
-
We're not getting away from it; we're pointing out the flaws in your argument.
Unsuccessfully then, as my argument is not about how good K-Mac was or wasn't or how difficult the games he had were or were not. What I am saying is that in the period between MON and his guys going and Houllier and his guys arriving, we did relatively OK in terms of points on the board compared to how the season has gone since. So in terms of our league position and win/loss/draw ratio, has that period added or detracted to the overall 2010/2011 effort thus far?
-
Losing 6-0 to Newcastle is never going to be acceptable.
Losing 6-0 to anyone is unacceptable. But given our cirumstances one loss in four games is.
-
Losing 6-0 to Newcastle with a full squad. Going out of Europe with a full squad. GH was barely through the door when the injuries piled.
We're going round in circles here. The situation with MON predates his walk-out... it was bubbling under from April/May and the summer was effectively a waste, the squad stood still, there was an air of resignation and doubt about the whole place. Much joking on here about MON not turning his phone on, but... how much was his heart in it at that stage?
What happened hurt us, no doubt. Set us back. Houllier's been playing catch-up since. Now, from here on in, it's all down to GH - more or less a full squad available, three of his own signings on board, let's see what he can do. Interesting he noted post-match on Saturday that he felt the squad was tighter in recent weeks... he's got shot of Carew, Warnock and Ireland just about banished, Dunne given a chance to redeem himself, Sidwell gone. I think MON left us with more than a legacy of a squad with bloated wages. Seems a few egos and offside attitudes around too. Celtic fans might experience a bit of deja vu if they looked into the post O'Neill situation at Villa.
Let's be clear: we go down, it's down to GH. But let's not play down the damage O'Neill did. It's only just beginning to be set right.
-
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Which also coincided with the worst injury list I think I've ever seen, at one point we seemed to have a new player getting crocked every day!
-
Yet, and this is without doing a full points per game comparison, the results when K-Mac was working without much help were better than they were once Gezza came in with his full staff.
Which also coincided with the worst injury list I think I've ever seen, at one point we seemed to have a new player getting crocked every day!
11 players out at one point, there isn't a manager in the world who wouldn't struggle to get consistent results faced with an injury list like that.
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
Nobody is saying it is entirely the injuries or that it was entirely about Martin and his coaching staff fecking off.
You seem to think the latter had nothing to do with it, though.
-
little from column A', a little from column B', john...
-
It's all well and good second guessing the motives behind gestures and actions and we can speculate on individuals personal thoughts/motivations. The fact remains that we won 3 and drew 1 of our first 6 games, if we had continued in that vein we would be alongside Chelsea and Spurs in the table. The squad went to pot after Gerard began implementing his changes.
This may be true, but Hotlips has his own ideas, his own style of management and tactics. Perhaps we are just now starting to see how he wants Villa to play? He now has a couple of his own players in as well. Might be great, might be a disaster, we'll see. Either way, bringing a whole new way of training and playing to a team already into the season and set up as a MON team can't have been easy and added to the horrendous injury list you can see why we struggled.
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
Nobody is saying it is entirely the injuries or that it was entirely about Martin and his coaching staff fecking off.
You seem to think the latter had nothing to do with it, though.
I think that if we can get 7 points from 4 games when the impact is at it's highest, then the effect is being greatly exagerated by some, yes.
Now, I do appreciate that the games may not have been all that hard and that we played them without the benefit of injuries, but when one of our best little runs of form (so far) happened when things should have been at their worst, then saying it had a big impact is wrong. What did have a big impact was the injuries and Gezza taking a bit too long (IMO anyway) to get to grips with the team and life back in the PL.
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
Nobody is saying it is entirely the injuries or that it was entirely about Martin and his coaching staff fecking off.
You seem to think the latter had nothing to do with it, though.
I think that if we can get 7 points from 4 games when the impact is at it's highest, then the effect is being greatly exagerated by some, yes.
Now, I do appreciate that the games may not have been all that hard and that we played them without the benefit of injuries, but when one of our best little runs of form (so far) happened when things should have been at their worst, then saying it had a big impact is wrong. What did have a big impact was the injuries and Gezza taking a bit too long (IMO anyway) to get to grips with the team and life back in the PL.
Yes, which would have been far less of a problem had he not had to do it during the season.
I didn't ask if the effect of his leaving was being exaggerated, I was interested in whether you thought it actually had anything to do with it.
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
To my mind, injuries were the main problem.
But the Villa hating madman leaving 5 days before the start of the season certainly played it's part.
-
The only way we would had had a limited effect when MON left, would have been to replace him with a similar manager.
However, the culture of the club needed changing. I am shocked when hearing about MON training methods mainly consisting of five a side matches and not much else.
With Houllier I believe we have a chance of making the CL on a more consistant basis with training, players, contacts etc. WIth MON i think he had taken us as far as he could.I may be proved wrong, but that is what I believe.
The journos like Holt who write this crap only want the same teams at the top as more people will read the rubbish stories the pedal out! Other teams, like us, with ambition will get stick.
-
So the injuries were to blame, a point I would at least partly concede, and not Martin and his buddies doing one all at the same time?
Nobody is saying it is entirely the injuries or that it was entirely about Martin and his coaching staff fecking off.
You seem to think the latter had nothing to do with it, though.
I think that if we can get 7 points from 4 games when the impact is at it's highest, then the effect is being greatly exagerated by some, yes.
Now, I do appreciate that the games may not have been all that hard and that we played them without the benefit of injuries, but when one of our best little runs of form (so far) happened when things should have been at their worst, then saying it had a big impact is wrong. What did have a big impact was the injuries and Gezza taking a bit too long (IMO anyway) to get to grips with the team and life back in the PL.
Yes, which would have been far less of a problem had he not had to do it during the season.
I didn't ask if the effect of his leaving was being exaggerated, I was interested in whether you thought it actually had anything to do with it.
Well, although I want to say 'no' to keep my argument intact, I have to be honest and say the lack of a pre-season with the players would not have helped him. But the point I'm making, which now goes back a few pages, was the impact of all the coaching staff leaving at once. I think that argument falls down when we got 7 points from 4 games with nobody, but then much less per game once Gezza's men were in place.