Women and the offside rule - Andy Gray sacked

[pauliewalnuts]

Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilot was female ??

I wouldn't fly to Tenerife under any circumstances whatsoever.

How vile.

[Lizz]

Quick glance at the Mirror online: http://www.mirror.co.uk/, their front page photograph of Richard Keys is probably not the best photograph of him that's ever been taken.

[curiousorange]

I know the offside rule but as for explaining it without sounding like a complete pranny, well...

And just to be pedantic, is it a rule or a law?

[AV1874]

It's a Law, it is Law 11.

[Exeter 77]

I know the offside rule but as for explaining it without sounding like a complete pranny, well...

And just to be pedantic, is it a rule or a law?

Officially, they are the 'Laws Of The Game'.

[Jimbo]

Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilot was female ??

Not sure i would to be fair, my mrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field

I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too

Yes, I mean what if you were in hospital, and you were really, really vulnerable, helpless even, and you were young, real young, and couldn't fend for yourself, and it was touch and go whether you'd make it out into the world ok?

I mean, would you really want a woman to give birth to you?

[VillaZogmariner]

If there was a god James Richardson would be hosting every football programme going.

Alongside Danny Baker

[damon loves JT]

Pundits like Keys and Alan Green think that most people in football are a bit beneath them. I listened to yesterday's game on the radio and you'd think Green was doing everyone a favour by being there.

Keys and Gray were the same at the World Cup, apparently. And Sky aren't even rights holders.

[Pete3206]

How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.

[Bald Eagle]

How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.

Jesus! I read that too quickly. I thought for a sec you wanted to slip the bastard one.

[Pete3206]

How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.

Jesus! I read that too quickly. I thought for a sec you wanted to slip the bastard one.

Replace slip with smack.

[Perry Barr Pet]

It's puzzling that it's mainly men expressing their indignation.  Women can't have it both ways; we either expect a man to defend and protect our honour and fragility or we expect equality and demonstrate our worth on an even playing field, as Sian Massey emphatically did.

Having lived, worked and played in male dominated environments for many, many years, I am more than able give as good as I get, and that is what I consider equality.  The hypocrisy of certain female businesswomen who have connections with those in the soft porn trade does women no favours whatsovever. 

I've got no time for the 'Sky Two', particularly Smarmy Keys, but personally I find it more 'sexist' for men to be offended on my behalf.  That is patronising.  Has anyone asked Sian Massey if she was offended?  I'm willing to bet that she, like most of us women, has dealt with far worse than a 'women-don't-understand-offside' comment.  She will have anticipated some abuse, as would her male counterparts, before assuming her position, so give her some credit.  Unfortunately her excellent performance on Sunday has been overshadowed by media mass hysteria.  Again, it is patronising. 

[djbone]

A big shrug of the shoulders from me. Yes there's sexism in life and women don't get a fair deal across the board. I won't bring up the fact that they are overpiad at the top tennis events (actually more than men pro rata), the fact that men are discriminated against at child birth, the first night afterwards, paternity rights, father's rights and so on. by getting onto this subject that there is inequality everywhere will inflict a wealth of,'yes but that doesn't count because...'.

Where men face it its accepted. Where women face it its broken down to the minutae and an irrelevant joke between two people becomes a Everest like molehill.

Wow. So the fact women get paid more pro-rata at a few of the big tennis events (which you dont want to bring up), apparently shows that men are just as discriminated against and papers over the fact that in the UK, women get paid on average just 80% of what men doing exactly the same job get paid?   Or the biological fact that only women can give birth means they're massively discriminated against in employment for that too?  And all of that is in the richer most developed countries, in much of the world women's relative position is far far worse. 

Or - let's be honest - the fact that beyond a small percentage of relationships where things have changed, gender roles in most of our households have changed very little since the 1970s, with the woman doing the vast bulk of housework, childcare, etc - despite very often also going out to work these days?  Or - after a very brief period when it was unfashionable - the fact that the Lad culture that encourages young men to see women as unfeeling objects has returned with a vengeance, with many women feeling inadequate and weight-obsessed as a result?

You acknowledge the existence of sexism, but seem a little unsure it's really such an issue. 

Yes, the brain-dead ramblings of Keys & Gray pale beside the far greater problems of sexism in our society, but they're in a position of great influence, and if unchallenged their views will be seen as justified and will fuel the stereotypical macho bullshit around us, and for that reason they should be made an example of by Sky.  Not that they will of course - by the channel whose female presenters with one or two exceptions seem chosen for their appeal to blokes?  No chance.

[Sheldon_Villa]

It's puzzling that it's mainly men expressing their indignation.  Women can't have it both ways; we either expect a man to defend and protect our honour and fragility or we expect equality and demonstrate our worth on an even playing field, as Sian Massey emphatically did.

Having lived, worked and played in male dominated environments for many, many years, I am more than able give as good as I get, and that is what I consider equality.  The hypocrisy of certain female businesswomen who have connections with those in the soft porn trade does women no favours whatsovever. 

I've got no time for the 'Sky Two', particularly Smarmy Keys, but personally I find it more 'sexist' for men to be offended on my behalf.  That is patronising.  Has anyone asked Sian Massey if she was offended?  I'm willing to bet that she, like most of us women, has dealt with far worse than a 'women-don't-understand-offside' comment.  She will have anticipated some abuse, as would her male counterparts, before assuming her position, so give her some credit.  Unfortunately her excellent performance on Sunday has been overshadowed by media mass hysteria.  Again, it is patronising. 

Really good post that is love. Well done. (",)

[KevinGage]

Initial thought when I heard the decision that she'd got the gig was it's not right.

Not for the prehistoric reasoning of Gray and that hairy oaf of a mate of his, more from a concern about respect (or lack of ) she might get from the players.

The more I thought about it though the more it makes sense. If she's got to that level chances are she knows the rules of the game inside out (more than Gray, who's let himself down a few times in that regard). Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe. But sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reason.
As Lizz said, she got the biggest call of the day right too.

Will be interesting to see how this one plays out. BFR lost his TV job for ill judged and offensive comments. His defence too was that he did not know the mic was still on, as if that was OK. I'm not sure what the sliding scale is vis a vis racist-sexist comments, which is worse.  Both are pretty archaic. You'd need to be pretty funny to get away with that type of subject matter today, and that's not something anyone could ever seriously level at Keys or Gray.

I do think they are more likely to keep their jobs than BFR though. He was an optional extra, one of many pundits ITV wheeled out for midweek matches. Keys and Gray are the voice of Sky Sports live coverage, in the latter case an increasingly rasping and artificially excited voice. 

Wouldn't miss either of them. Anyone got any tapes of Lawro or Hansen saying something they shouldn't? That really would be a result.