Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: VillaZogmariner on January 23, 2011, 11:24:26 AM
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...according to Keys and Gray (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349729/Own-goal-Mic-captures-Sky-presenters-sexist-diatribe-female-linesman--Apprentice-star-Karren-Brady.html), allegedly.
Sky Sports presenters Andy Gray and Richard Keys were at the centre of a sexism row last night after they questioned whether a female
linesman knew the offside rule during a Premier League football match.
The commentators, who apparently believed their microphones were switched off, were recorded making disparaging remarks about Sian Massey, 25, before Liverpool’s Premiership clash with Wolves yesterday.
They also criticised Apprentice star and West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady who had yesterday written about sexism in a newspaper column.
Commenting on Ms Massey, Mr Keys said: ‘Somebody better get down there and explain offside to her.’
Mr Gray, a former Scottish international footballer, replied: ‘Can you believe that? A female linesman. Women don’t know the offside rule.’
Mr Keys replied: ‘Course they don’t. I can guarantee you there will be a big one today. Kenny (Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish) will go potty. This isn’t the first time, is it? Didn’t we have one before?’
Later in the exchange, Mr Keys said: ‘The game’s gone mad. Did you hear charming Karren Brady this morning complaining about sexism? Do me a favour, love.’
Ms Brady had said she had ‘experienced sexism at its rankest, lies about my personal life and a level of calculated mischief that is simply appalling’.
Asked about the pundits’ remarks, she said: ‘I think this just sums up everything I said in my column.’
During the game, which Liverpool won 3-0, Ms Massey angered Wolves by refusing to rule Raul Meireles offside before he set up Liverpool’s first goal. The replay showed that she made the correct decision.
When The Mail on Sunday put the transcript to Mr Keys, he said: ‘I have no recollection of that. I have no idea what you are talking about.
'My recollection is that I wished the young lady all the best.’
When told a recording existed of the conversation, he said: ‘If you have a tape then you don’t need me to talk to you.’
Last night The Mail on Sunday sent a transcript and a copy of the recording to a Sky Sports spokeswoman.
She was not able to confirm or deny the veracity of the clip, which was provided to this newspaper by an anonymous source.
Mr Gray could not be reached last night.
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Everyone seems to have missed the irony of Brady's comments regarding sexism and the disparaging treatment of women being printed in The Sun.
As for the other two bozo's, it's hardly a surprise that they have such views.
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If Bigot Ron has to resign for racist comments, they have to resign for sexist comments.
Good riddance.
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Dint Rodney Marsh get sacked for something far less?
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Dint Rodney Marsh get sacked for something far less?
Hardly. He made a tasteless joke about tsunami disaster. It was far worse than anything Gray and Keys said.
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Everyone seems to have missed the irony of Brady's comments regarding sexism and the disparaging treatment of women being printed in The Sun.
As for the other two bozo's, it's hardly a surprise that they have such views.
There is also the irony of her appearing in a red top (NOTW?) in her skimpies for an indepth interview of her shagging a player (no not Horsfield but Pesch) soon after she started at the club. Plus also working for two people who have made their fortunes exploiting women.
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Can't stand Karen Brady.
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The lineswoman in question got the big decision in the game right. Would much rather have her on the pitch than some twat like Mark Halsey.
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If the above is correct then Keys and Gray deserve a couple of week's suspension at the least.
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The irony of football, is when there can be many sexist songs etc. sung, you will also get loads of men shouting to an attractive woman to "get out the fucking way" if they are blocking the view of the game.
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Dint Rodney Marsh get sacked for something far less?
Hardly. He made a tasteless joke about tsunami disaster. It was far worse than anything Gray and Keys said.
As much as I can't stand Marsh, his tasteless joke was little more than a play on words involving 'tsunami' and 'toon army'. Hardly a sacking offence. It's typical of our society, though. People can't wait to shoot somebody else down for their perceived 'racism', 'sexism' or 'insensitivity'. As if there isn't a little bit of all those things in all of us.
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I'd struggle to explain the offside rule. Wish Gray & Keys had said something far more controversial and unexpected, used foul language etc which would have resulted in Sky at least disciplining them and having to issue a public apology.
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Whatever your view is on it, Richard Keys saying to Karen Brady
'Do me a favour love' regarding her views on sexism is comical genius. Give that man a pay rise.
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dont worry lizz. I bet you keys and gray also dont understand the offside law, as dont most of the players/spectors etc.
I spent over 10 yrs officiating at non-league/semi-pro level, and i can assure you, very few know the laws, let alone offside!!
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Ironic that the lineswoman got a crucial offside decision spot on!
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
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Excellent explanation of the off-side rule Pauline!
Didn't we have a female line-o at VP a couple of seasons back? Seem to remember she did OK (amongst the chants to get her tits out etc)
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Stick that flag right up your fanny`. Doesn't have the same ring to it though does it.
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With 'ring' being the appropriate word ;)
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If Karen Brady wasn't a woman, her comments and opinions would receive the same coverage as any other unsuccessful football club administrator.
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If Karen Brady wasn't a woman, her comments and opinions would receive the same coverage as any other unsuccessful football club administrator.
I saw her "Diary" this Saturday. Forgetting all her bollocks and lies about Grant, she apparently had a call from someone in Sunderland on Sunday to see if Randy had the money and was serious about buying Bent. Apparently she will know as she lives just two doors away from him in London.
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Is this why Alladyce is commentating the Sky Chelsea-Bolton match on Monday night?
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
I wonder how many men understand your explanation!?
I sent the following to AV1874 in Aussie:
Female running the line at the Wolves v Liverpool game in the Premiership, excellent!
Comments on the BBC text commentary:
Liverpool goal: A big, big decision for our female assistant referee (or lineswoman). Wolves appeal for offside as Raul Meireles runs on to Christian Poulsen's pass down the right but Sian Massey is dead right not to flag because he is definitely on.
From Jack in Nottingham, via text: "Am hoping the female assistant referee escapes the stereotype that no woman understand the offside rule. Unfortunately for Wolves, she does."
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Ironic that the lineswoman got a crucial offside decision spot on!
then 5 minutes later she got one incredibly wrong that went without comment.
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and a teacher is sacked for letting kids go sledging...
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
Ah, but what if the throw is a bit rubbish and sails over your head? Obviously you aren't interfering with the queue at that point, but if the purse then hits the cashier, then her lowly assistant and into your arms, are you offside then? Eh?
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Very good, Dave, very good indeed.
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And of course if the purse is red the off side rule does not apply
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She got the offside decision spot on despite the crowd reaction and what's more she had great legs too!
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she apparently had a call from someone in Sunderland on Sunday to see if Randy had the money and was serious about buying Bent. Apparently she will know as she lives just two doors away from him in London.
Is that true? Does he leave £18m on the sideboard in full view of the neighbours?
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They were breaking their holes laughing for most of the highlights but can't say I blame them. Every goal was farcical and the cup was nearly dropped twice at the presentation. Has women's football got any better since this (which judging from the SKY graphics is from about 1998)?
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Good Luck to the woman she made better decisions than most of the blokes down VP anyway, but we should not notice this
kind of thing, i mean we have had premier league woman referees for years, look at Webb,Clattenburg, and Dowd !!!
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"Kenny will go potty". Just Kenny, not Mick?
That certainly explains the slant on most Sky coverage.
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If it had been said in a funny ha-ha, jokey way, it would perhaps be excusable in the environment they work in, but the fact they seemed deadly serious about it is a worrying attitude in this day and age and completely undermines them as pundits/broadcasters. These two are normally biased enough against referees and have become unbelievably smug and self-important in recent years. Just as well they don't work for the BBC or they'd be looking for new jobs this morning.
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They should be anyway.
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I hope they both get the boot, especially Keys. The hairy handed Cov fan cant stand us.
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What about that pile of shit programme Loose Women. A load of withered old hags slagging men off every day for an hour.
Jokes about men not being able to multi task, being poofs with flu etc etc. No difference.
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If somebody does explain the offside rule to that female linesman (?) maybe she could go on to explain it to Andy Gray.
It's funny that they got caught out saying what they no doubt really think. Even funnier that Keys was right about there being a really big decision in the game. Which she got spot on.
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Sounds as though you watch it usual suspect? Go on admit it, you have a crush on one of them!
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My dear old Mom watched the Villa right up to till she died at the age of 83, and she used to subscribe to Sky Sports as well. If shes looking down she would have had a right go at them for talking like that when she helped pay their wages. While she was at it she would have given them as succinct an explanation of the offside rule as any bloke and told the pair of them in no uncertain terms a few other home truths as well.
Sack them both, they have been around too long anyway.
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Sounds as though you watch it usual suspect? Go on admit it, you have a crush on one of them!
I must admit I am hypnotically drawn to the wrinkles on carol McGiffins neck
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Was said on TS this morning that the lady lineswoman was a looker - any links to name or picture?
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Was said on TS this morning that the lady lineswoman was a looker - any links to name or picture?
Wouldn't go that far - she had the Croydon face-lift thing going on. Nice legs tho'.
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What about that pile of shit programme Loose Women. A load of withered old hags slagging men off every day for an hour.
Jokes about men not being able to multi task, being poofs with flu etc etc. No difference.
There is and I'm lifting this point straight from the discussion on 5Live this morning. Loose Women make general comments about men in the stereotypical "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" train of thought.
Gray and Keys were specifically questioning the competence of someone who had gone through all the necessary training and qualifications to be considered and treated as an equal and a professional. Their sex is therefore irrelevant.
Chris Evans used the shopping explanation (that villajk mentioned earlier) on the radio before Christmas and it didn't cause an issue precisely because (i) it was talking about women in general and (ii) he did it on the radio, for all to hear and without casting aspersions on the ability of one specific qualified professional to do their job.
In any other workplace, I suspect that the comments made therefore would at least result in an internal disciplinary procedure.
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And it now looks like Keys and Gray won't be presenting this evening's MNF (stupid f**king title if ever there was one): LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371642.stm)
Somehow I don't think Motson would get away with saying that black players looked alike (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/black-players-look-alike-says-motson-1136912.html) quite so easily if it were done in today's media-driven society.
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Breaking news on Grauniad site - keys and Gray have been suspended, and won't be covering tonight's match.
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If no-one's heard it, it's here http://bit.ly/dEGUqP
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It's the tone of it which is so nasty. Really deliberate. And when you contrast their remarks with what they say on air they look hypocritical as well as bigoted.
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If no-one's heard it, it's here http://bit.ly/dEGUqP
Thank's for posting that. It's the first time I've heard it.
Disgraceful. Really disgraceful.
As Damon posted, it's the tone that is so nasty.
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Hang on, Damon is reporting on it as we speak
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It is very nasty and snide.
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Anyway Pauline, did you see the Wolves game? I thought her bum looked really big in those shorts.
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Anyway Pauline, did you see the Wolves game? I thought her bum looked really big in those shorts.
hehe.
I have to say the woman speaking about it on ITV news at the moment could, were it not for her pink coat, be mistaken for either sex. ;)
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If I'd have made such comments at my work, I'd be in serious trouble. I would imagine I'd be forced to go on Equality and Diversity training, would have to apologise to any individuals, and may even get suspended.
For these guys its so much worse in terms opf publicity, image and reputation - as it ever is for those on TV - but to be the frontline anchors for a programming schedule as large as sky's football coverage, well, surely they have to be fired?
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If no-one's heard it, it's here http://bit.ly/dEGUqP
Thank's for posting that. It's the first time I've heard it.
Disgraceful. Really disgraceful.
As Damon posted, it's the tone that is so nasty.
It is horrible. Yet again, the cosy little club are afraid of anything that might threaten them.
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I have to say the woman speaking about it on ITV news at the moment could, were it not for her pink coat, be mistaken for either sex.
`Have you ever been mistaken for a man?'
`No, have you?'
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I think this is great - From the view point we might not have to see Manimal Keys and Gray on TV again....
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I think this is great - From the view point we might not have to see Manimal Keys and Gray on TV again....
Sky should replace them with a couple of women.
A hairy-palmed lady from Coventry and an incomprensible, arrogant, fat, baldy Scottish lass ( who dosent like shopping in Asda)
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Manimal Keys
ha ha, yes
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I keep hearing that the comments were "allegedly" sexist and "supposedly derogatory". They must be hearing something different to the clip I keep hearing then, theres no question of sexism and I'd add that it was pretty snide as well.
Keys and Gray have been in the comfort zone for far too long, 20 years with their position never under threat and have become lazy and unprofessional. Time for a change and Sky have the perfect excuse.
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I think this is great - From the view point we might not have to see Manimal Keys and Gray on TV again....
Sky should replace them with a couple of women.
A hairy-palmed lady from Coventry and an incomprensible, arrogant, fat, baldy Scottish lass ( who dosent like shopping in Asda)
I fear they might be spoilt for choice.
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Sky should replace them with a couple of women.
A hairy-palmed lady from Coventry and an incomprensible, arrogant, fat, baldy Scottish lass ( who dosent like shopping in Asda)
Didn't Keys get laser'd - I mean in the hair removal way, rather than obliterated in a George Lucas-esque fashion, as would be preferable? Would be great if they had Claire Tomlinson given the gig for a few weeks. And her eyebrows don't join the middle.
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Jo Brand and Harriet Harman
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Didn't Keys get laser'd - I mean in the hair removal way
Yep, he had to.
Imagine having to look at that hairy beast in "Crystal Clear High Definition"?
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If I understand correctly this was off air. On that basis I am not sure what they have done wrong. it should have remained a private conversation.
What are the chnces this bird has been promoted through the system to meet some sort of diversity targets.
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I think this is great - From the view point we might not have to see Manimal Keys and Gray on TV again....
Agreed. Keys and Gray have been at the centre of Sky's continued undermining of the officials in the PL era and I'm royally bored of it. Hence me finally getting around to cancelling my sports subscription before Christmas. Unfortunately they've done it for so long that any and all tv "analysis" in this country consists of looking at the split-second decisions that referees and linesmen and women make with some impressive technology and berating them for making "clearly" incorrect decisions. I'm pretty sure The Big Match on ITV in the late 80s and early 90s, as basic as it was, spent more time looking at the game in general (much like modern BBC rugby union coverage) and what happened away from the actual goals and 'contentious decisions' as they do now.
How many Wolves fans behind Sian Massey were screaming blue murder convinced that she made the wrong decision? Plenty, I'm sure. We've all seen what we want to see with our own claret-and-blue tinted glasses, but with the aid of technology and hindsight, we're able to see that she did in fact make the correct decision. Thankfully as it makes Keys and Gray look even more stupid as a result.
The pundits claim they would like the referees to come on tv after the game and "explain their decisions" but that's a fallacy. They don't. What use is interviewing the referee and hearing that he called the decision as he saw it at the time, right or wrong? The pundits could do this for them and take the flak off them, but they don't, they just increase it.
Why don't they get the players on and ask them why they haven't yet learnt how to kick with their weaker foot? The managers and ask them why they didn't make changes when the game was clearly slipping away from them?
Because they are their friends and part of the protected inner circle, vital to Sky's coverage and publicity of the product. The officials are not.
I don't think they'll be off our screens for long and I doubt we'll see any great change in the way football is discussed on tv any time soon, but it will be a pleasant change while it lasts.
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What are the chnces this bird has been promoted through the system to meet some sort of diversity targets.
What are the chances that she is actually a qualified match official who did a decent job.
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If I understand correctly this was off air. On that basis I am not sure what they have done wrong. it should have remained a private conversation.
By that score Big Ron would have kept his ITV job - and he was "only" talking to himself.
It undermines their positions - revealing an outrageously sexist attitude towards an official, who has done nothing wrong. Apart from offending their women viewers, where does it leave Sky when we have the first female Premiership ref, with these two in charge of their coverage?
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If I understand correctly this was off air. On that basis I am not sure what they have done wrong. it should have remained a private conversation.
By that score Big Ron would have kept his ITV job - and he was "only" talking to himself.
Sky can't use that as a defence, after what they did to Gordon Brown in Rochdale.
Have some of that, arseholes
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What are the chnces this bird has been promoted through the system to meet some sort of diversity targets.
What are the chances that she is actually a qualified match official who did a decent job.
And if you were to replace 'bird' with an ethnicity of your choosing, it would be equally unacceptable. That's why Keys and Gray are in the poo.
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If I understand correctly this was off air. On that basis I am not sure what they have done wrong. it should have remained a private conversation.
By that score Big Ron would have kept his ITV job - and he was "only" talking to himself.
Sky can't use that as a defence, after what they did to Gordon Brown in Rochdale.
Have some of that, arseholes
Take it you're not likely to be handing in a transfer request any time soon then, Damon?
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Blown totally out of proportion
Sky wont sack them two, they are their crown jewels of football
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Blown totally out of proportion
No, not really. They are professional sports commentators, saying that a female match official is incompetent because she is a woman.
And listen to the way they say it. I hate to agree with Karren Brady about anything, but she's right: it's not just banter.
I agree with you about one thing, though: Sky will never get rid of them over this.
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Blown totally out of proportion
Sky wont sack them two, they are their crown jewels of football
Well Keys is a cock, and Gray resembles a scrotum so you may have a point.
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Blown totally out of proportion
Sky wont sack them two, they are their crown jewels of football
Suspect certain people at Sky will be glad for the news developing in Moscow if only because it takes the focus off them.
Having said that, I just turned on Sky News to see what they were up to and found Jeff Winter stood outside Molineux discussing the football story before returning to the studio to an update on the explosion at Moscow airport and both stories covered on the scrolling yellow ticker at the bottom of the screen. So that shows cynical old me then, doesn't it?
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Deleted on reflection.
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This is political correctness gone mad!
Hurrah! It took a long time but we got there eventually.
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This is political correctness gone mad! They should have knon better but this level of outrage is ridiculous.
Would two female presenters be treated the same way if the roles were reversed? I'm sure the Loose Women panel would have been sacked long ago if that were the case (not that I watch it mind).
I refer you to my earlier point: Loose Women make general comments about men in the stereotypical "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" train of thought.
Gray and Keys were specifically questioning the competence of someone who had gone through all the necessary training and qualifications to be considered and treated as an equal and a professional. Their sex is therefore irrelevant.
Oh and if they felt there wasn't anything wrong with their train of thought, why would they not suggest it on camera?
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The thing I never understand is that pundits, of all ilks, will happily slaughter an official for getting a decision wrong, but in nearly every game I watch the commentator makes mistakes - identifies the wrong player, calls decisions as they see it live, only to be proven wrong later by replays. Motty is the one that boils my piss most about this, as he's absolutely scathing of officials making mistakes - with a justification that they're professionals, paid to do a job... is there some Freudian slip there that commentators are not really professional?
On the actual topic, don't think they'll get sacked over it - but that's maybe another hint at the existing lack of professionalism of the commentators
edited a FEW spelling mistakes - even with a chell specker!!
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This is political correctness gone mad!
Hurrah! It took a long time but we got there eventually.
I take it back.That actually was awful... what were they thinking.
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The danish "Tips" system (have official betting on all danish sports, and is owned by the public) has for years had commercials ."There are so many things that women don't understand". Most of them built with a women in the kitchen doing dishes or like, hearing the commentator, and imagining what he means.
Playing with a libero:
Giving a goal away
The defence digs in
Tour De France joke:
Naughty Injury (translated as Injury=skade=name of the bird in danish)
Couldn't find my favorite, where they say the keeper moves to early...and you see the keeper leave the goal before penalty is taken ;D
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This is political correctness gone mad! They should have knon better but this level of outrage is ridiculous.
Would two female presenters be treated the same way if the roles were reversed? I'm sure the Loose Women panel would have been sacked long ago if that were the case (not that I watch it mind).
I refer you to my earlier point: Loose Women make general comments about men in the stereotypical "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" train of thought.
Gray and Keys were specifically questioning the competence of someone who had gone through all the necessary training and qualifications to be considered and treated as an equal and a professional. Their sex is therefore irrelevant.
Oh and if they felt there wasn't anything wrong with their train of thought, why would they not suggest it on camera?
I listened to the clip properly a second and third time. It undoubtedly betrays a sinister undercurrent, especially towards the end.
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This is political correctness gone mad! They should have knon better but this level of outrage is ridiculous.
And if they'd said Irish linesmen are too thick to understand the offside rule?
They would be right :)
I've deleted my original post, I hold my hands up I was wrong. I listened to the clip again.
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Fair play to you Irish Villain.
From what I understand, Keys and Gray are close to being untouchable. Maybe if you get too used to the sound of your own voice, you assume that everything you say is right.
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They should be turned into a human centipede with Clive Tyldesley in the middle.
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Glad to see gray and keys have both been suspended by sky.
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They should be turned into a human centipede with Clive Tyldesley in the middle.
Haha what an image in my head now. Brilliant...grim, but brilliant!
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Glad to see gray and keys have both been suspended by sky.
Well, yes, for tonight they have. Big deal.
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Teen Wolf's dad has got previous when it comes to getting caught thinking he's off-air:
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7gCYAtmYSI)
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The lineswoman in question got the big decision in the game right. Would much rather have her on the pitch than some twat like Mark Halsey.
i know hes not the best ref but i think its good seeing mark halsey on a football pitch after what hes been through.
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Teen Wolf's dad has got previous when it comes to getting caught thinking he's off-air:
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7gCYAtmYSI)
Yeah! He offended my whole nation. Although agree with the ground :)
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so we have women that can perform heart surgery, pilot planes, get dropped over enemy lines in dangerous situations, become prime minister, [sorry]
can lead and drive forward some of the biggest international companies etc
yet some blokes think they are incapable of seeing if a football has crossed over a white line !
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Just watching Sky News and Gray said something about female linemen not knowing the off-side rule BEFORE the game, when he thought he was off air.
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Andy Gray is just Phil Neal to Keys' Graham Taylor.
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Glad to see gray and keys have both been suspended by sky.
Well, yes, for tonight they have. Big deal.
In what universe, exactly, is not being sent to Bolton considered a punishment?
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Madness, women can slate men all the time and get off with it
The world has gone fooking mad
Gray / Keys were saying what we all think.
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The first time my old Sunday side had to deal with a female ref we went through all of this stuff. She was no better and no worse than most at that level but she gave a terrible decision against one of our lot and as he launched into the usual tirade and went "for fucks sake ref, I never touched him you, you, you....... bitch", she gave him a bit back and that was the end of it except for the months of piss taking he got from the rest of us.
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Madness, women can slate men all the time and get off with it
The world has gone fooking mad
Gray / Keys were saying what we all think.
This is either brilliant satire or the ramblings of a fool. Sadly I have a feeling I know which is more likely.
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Gray / Keys were saying what we all think.
Pray tell us then, what we all think.
This should be good.
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strange that Sky didn't just bury this, who leaked it ? It was their footage to control wasn't it ?
Have Gray / Keys pissed off the Sky hierachy I wonder ?
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Bloody hell, keep up. It's an audio recording which was passed to the Mail.
Mind you, they edited out the interesting bit, which was Richard Keys bringing Andy Gray to climax with a washing up glove during first half injury time
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Gray / Keys were saying what we all think.
Pray tell us then, what we all think.
This should be good.
Yes, please do.
I'm a woman and I've been watching football for hundreds of years. I know the offside rule as well as, if not better, than the next man. At games I often call offside, or not as the case may be, and men around are arguing the other way. 99 times out of 100 I'm right.
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to be fair When Andy Gray said the lino should be in the kitchen, he was talking about his floor covering!"
just get me coat
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
Well thats one way of describing it.
However, can you now explain the 3 occasions you can be penalised for being in an offside position. As just being in an offside postion is not an offence apart 3 occasions.
Now that is something those prize prats will not be able to answer!!
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What are the chnces this bird has been promoted through the system to meet some sort of diversity targets.
What are the chances that she is actually a qualified match official who did a decent job.
As someone who was a level 4 ref, id say she is their purely and simply on merit. To suggest otherwise, is just displaying ignorance of the system!
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Madness, women can slate men all the time and get off with it
The world has gone fooking mad
Gray / Keys were saying what we all think.
No they weren't.
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I don't particularly like Keys and Gray but this is a story about absolutely nothing, all those spouting indugnance about it not being PC probably have never made a disparaging comment about lady drivers, now we know their C*&p.
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I don't particularly like Keys and Gray but this is a story about absolutely nothing, all those spouting indugnance about it not being PC probably have never made a disparaging comment about lady drivers, now we know their C*&p.
And if it were someone whose job is commenting on driving standards who was making those remarks I would expect a similar outcry.
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Too many people need to get a life!
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Good point, Dave.
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Too many people need to get a life!
You're very profound!
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Too many people need to get a life!
You're very profound!
Perhaps reading your own signature may point something out to you!
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Too many people need to get a life!
You're very profound!
Perhaps reading your own signature may point something out to you!
And I'd refer you to your original point.
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It was obvious they did not think about what they where saying they should've said nothing in the studio and just kept there opinions to themselves.
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I'm glad those two have got punished and suspended. Too long have they been thinking they're untouchable in their Sky Sports Boys Club.
This isn't the first time they've been caught saying stuff off camera.
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What are the chnces this bird has been promoted through the system to meet some sort of diversity targets.
What are the chances that she is actually a qualified match official who did a decent job.
As someone who was a level 4 ref, id say she is their purely and simply on merit. To suggest otherwise, is just displaying ignorance of the system!
Are you talking about the same system that fast tracked Stuart Attwood?
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
Well thats one way of describing it.
However, can you now explain the 3 occasions you can be penalised for being in an offside position. As just being in an offside postion is not an offence apart 3 occasions.
Now that is something those prize prats will not be able to answer!!
1. If there is a sale on, 2. They are the last pair in your size, 3. you want a matching handbag. -;)
1. If you are interfering with play
2. If you are interfering with an opposing player (Oh ah!)
3. You are seeking to gain an advantage by being in the offside position.
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Too many people need to get a life!
You're very profound!
Perhaps reading your own signature may point something out to you!
And I'd refer you to your original point.
Heard the one, let the one who has not sinned throw the first stone, therefore from your sanctimonious comments I presume you are whiter than white. Perhaps you even wrote the inclusion and diversity book!
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
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Heard the one, let the one who has not sinned throw the first stone, therefore from your sanctimonious comments I presume you are whiter than white. Perhaps you even wrote the inclusion and diversity book!
That's so pathetic I genuinely don't know where to begin.
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If this was anywhere else they would sacked but those two are untouchable at Sky. Both of them are a disgrace.
It's interesting they ban them for this game they won't be on at the weekend as it's the FA Cup so it will be another week before we see them again when Sky will be hoping this will have all blown over.
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
DING DING DING we have a winner! And you can't call it christmas any more.
And the whole point is that there was no humour meant in the way they said it.
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This hysterical reaction will be forgotten about by the time Keys and Gray resume their broadcasting duties next weekend. They've been given a bollocking and rightly so, but all this is now is material for Talksport and the rolling news coverage. As usual, there is a orderly queue of wronged and offended sad sacks demanding the removal of their livelihoods.
Look, I'm not a big fan of either Keys or Gray. In fact, I'm of the opinion that that they become more and more cretinous with each passing season. But, some of the sanctimonious claptrap trotted out today has been totally over the top. Does anyone think this will lead to a serious debate about sexism in football? It's today's hot topic, nothing more. I think we should celebrate the fact that the pair of them have been made to look like the prize twats that they are and that The Premier League has an up and coming female official who has been given positive exposure thanks to Laurel and Hardy.
If you have been offended by this pair of misogynistic baboons then don't worry, you'll have forgotten it by Wednesday.
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
We're still waiting for you to tell us what we all think.
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
I hear Chalkie and his mates have got no sense of humour anymore either.
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This has all the hallmarks of something spiralling out of control
No doubt it will be mentioned at PM's question time next
I dont really like the 2 of them but I do enjoy "what a weekend" on a Sunday tea time, it wraps the weekend up nicely
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
I hear Chalkie and his mates have got no sense of humour anymore either.
#
Gray and Keys are a pair of old puffters anyway....
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
I hear Chalkie and his mates have got no sense of humour anymore either.
Look I'm not defending Keys & Gray, however, where's the consistency ? Women can have snidey digs at men all day long and its just laughed off / banter.
Is the playing field level ?
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
Neither Gray nor Keys was laughing. It was not a joke.
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
I hear Chalkie and his mates have got no sense of humour anymore either.
Look I'm not defending Keys & Gray, however, where's the consistency ? Women can have snidey digs at men all day long and its just laughed off / banter.
Is the playing field level ?
I said exactly the same thing to Mrs VCTM tonight - she just smirked ........ life`s a bitch and then you marry .......you know the rest!!!
For all those PC watchers out there ......I`m just joking (in fact I sought permission from Mrs VCTM before I posted this).
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Look I'm not defending Keys & Gray, however, where's the consistency ? Women can have snidey digs at men all day long and its just laughed off / banter.
Is the playing field level ?
Hang on, you said that they just said what everyone was thinking. That sounds a lot like defending them to me.
And I'm struggling to think of a situation where women would insinuate that they'd be clueless at their job simply because they're men.
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there's been a serious sense of humour failure here
UK gone PC mad
I hear Chalkie and his mates have got no sense of humour anymore either.
Look I'm not defending Keys & Gray, however, where's the consistency ? Women can have snidey digs at men all day long and its just laughed off / banter.
Is the playing field level ?
Men can have snidey digs at women as well, and frequently do.
What neither men nor women should do though is specifically point out that a man or a woman can't do their job because of their gender. They might not be able to do it because they're rubbish at it, but their gender has nothing to do with it.
This is what you seem to be struggling with.
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we get told we can't multi-task all the time ? I find that offensive
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Look I'm not defending Keys & Gray, however, where's the consistency ? Women can have snidey digs at men all day long and its just laughed off / banter.
Is the playing field level ?
No it isn't, and that's why this has been taken seriously. Women earn less than men, they find top jobs more difficult to get than men and right this minute there are many situations men wouldn't think twice about entering that a woman wouldn't contemplate - even something as mundane as walking down a qiet street. Don't bother coming the poor, discriminated-against man because it isn't true.
If two women heads of department at a school were overheard saying a man was doing his job badly because male teachers are useless they would be disciplined, and rightly so. There's the consistency.
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Whole can of worms being opened here
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Whole can of worms being opened here
Straight or bent ones?
Male or female ones?
Black or white ones?
Wiggly or non wiggly?
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Whole can of worms being opened here
Straight or bent ones?
Male or female ones?
Black or white ones?
Wiggly or non wiggly?
hirsute or bald?
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smooth or slimy?
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Although it was against the Boggies so it was alright in the end, I'm sure she would have spotted that Odemwingie had both feet in the box so any foul on him would have been a penalty.
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so who "filmed" Andy Gray pre KO on Sat and who released that ??
Has all the hallmarks of an inside job for me
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so who "filmed" Andy Gray pre KO on Sat and who released that ??
Has all the hallmarks of an inside job for me
They were talking into a microphone which was switched on. Sky aren't just going to turn the feed off.
There are probably a lot of people with access to that audio in their office who would be more than happy to sell it to the Mail for a few grand.
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No, it was "off-air" yet filmed and released ??
The unknown reporter made remarks about her "being a looker"
All a bit strange, feels like entrapment to me
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Of course the comments were wrong but there is still sexism on both sides in society and realistically it will never be completly eradicated. A large percentage of women would be no more happy to let their child be looked after by a male childminder then the same number of men who will never accept a female lino.
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No, it was "off-air" yet filmed and released ??
Yet, it was off-air. During an advert break before kick-off, while they are still miked up and a feed is still being recorded from that microphone.
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Of course the comments were wrong but there is still sexism on both sides in society and realistically it will never be completly eradicated. A large percentage of women would be no more happy to let their child be looked after by a male childminder then the same number of men who will never accept a female lino.
I'm unsure the comparisons are valid. Even if they are, it doesn't make either view correct. It also doesn't mean the fact that some people hold sexist/racist/homophobic views that nothing should be done to explain why these views should be challenged.
Asides from the sexist comments, the comment about 'Kenny won't be happy' or words to that effect are also indicative of the thinking of the commentators. Think someone else has posted something similar in this thread.
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A big shrug of the shoulders from me. Yes there's sexism in life and women don't get a fair deal across the board. I won't bring up the fact that they are overpiad at the top tennis events (actually more than men pro rata), the fact that men are discriminated against at child birth, the first night afterwards, paternity rights, father's rights and so on. by getting onto this subject that there is inequality everywhere will inflict a wealth of,'yes but that doesn't count because...'.
Where men face it its accepted. Where women face it its broken down to the minutae and an irrelevant joke between two people becomes a Everest like molehill.
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This hysterical reaction will be forgotten about by the time Keys and Gray resume their broadcasting duties next weekend. They've been given a bollocking and rightly so, but all this is now is material for Talksport and the rolling news coverage. As usual, there is a orderly queue of wronged and offended sad sacks demanding the removal of their livelihoods.
Look, I'm not a big fan of either Keys or Gray. In fact, I'm of the opinion that that they become more and more cretinous with each passing season. But, some of the sanctimonious claptrap trotted out today has been totally over the top. Does anyone think this will lead to a serious debate about sexism in football? It's today's hot topic, nothing more. I think we should celebrate the fact that the pair of them have been made to look like the prize twats that they are and that The Premier League has an up and coming female official who has been given positive exposure thanks to Laurel and Hardy.
If you have been offended by this pair of misogynistic baboons then don't worry, you'll have forgotten it by Wednesday.
Sounds about right.
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I found what they said to be offensive, hopefully the pair of them will suffer the same fate as BFR did. Somehow I doubt it though. They need to learn it's not 1975 anymore, there should be more women involved in football. Especially if they have a nice rack.
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Of course women know the off-side rule:
You’re in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have. The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes. The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes. At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been thrown* it would be plain wrong to push in front of the other shopper.
Well thats one way of describing it.
However, can you now explain the 3 occasions you can be penalised for being in an offside position. As just being in an offside postion is not an offence apart 3 occasions.
Now that is something those prize prats will not be able to answer!!
1. If there is a sale on, 2. They are the last pair in your size, 3. you want a matching handbag. -;)
1. If you are interfering with play
2. If you are interfering with an opposing player (Oh ah!)
3. You are seeking to gain an advantage by being in the offside position.
Very good!
Now, be honest here, is that off the top of your head or did you look it up ;-), and when can you be penalised for gaining an advantage for an extra bonus point :-)
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I found what they said to be offensive, hopefully the pair of them will suffer the same fate as BFR did. Somehow I doubt it though. They need to learn it's not 1975 anymore, there should be more women involved in football. Especially if they have a nice rack.
Don't be so bloody stupid. It would slow them down. Not that that should be the only reason women shouldn't be anywhere near the men's professional game. Just plain wrong.
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It is right that fuss should be made over these remarks. Ignoring them and treating them as acceptable banter does no good for equality cause. They should both publically apologise. However I do not think Keys and Gray should be sacked. I would be better to leave them in the job and see how they help the equality cause in the days and years to come.
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The comments are sooooooooooo tame compared to what I have received when refereeing on games here.
However, it needs to be looked at publically as not acceptable as it isn't good to be seen to condone those sort of comments. Equality still has a long way to go, but that's life, suck it princesses isn't that the case? That's what I am told anyway........
As a female I am really proud to see her on there and the best answer she had was to make that right call that she did.......a lot of females are not fit enough or competent enough to get onto the EPL, so just goes to show how good she is. :-)
Makes me wonder whether or not I could have made it to the dizzy heights if I had stuck around in England and kept on refereeing alongside Amy Raynor.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
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The comments are sooooooooooo tame compared to what I have received when refereeing on games here.
However, it needs to be looked at publically as not acceptable as it isn't good to be seen to condone those sort of comments. Equality still has a long way to go, but that's life, suck it princesses isn't that the case? That's what I am told anyway........
As a female I am really proud to see her on there and the best answer she had was to make that right call that she did.......a lot of females are not fit enough or competent enough to get onto the EPL, so just goes to show how good she is. :-)
Makes me wonder whether or not I could have made it to the dizzy heights if I had stuck around in England and kept on refereeing alongside Amy Raynor.
Dont forget Wendy, who was the first to make it.
Someone i had the pleasure of doing a few games with, and who was top notch as well!!
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
Well, quite. But at least they've been given the chance to get on the pitch before anyone's decided that they're shit at their job or not.
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Ah yes sorry Dave, I didn't mean to exclude Wendy, it was because I started my refereeing career in Staffordshire and had the pleasure of refereeing alongside Amy when she first started out as well. :-)
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
You really don't get it, do you?
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
You really don't get it, do you?
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
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Depends if you're unlucky enough to question noses.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Well now i know that you REALLY don't get it.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Doing research on New Street ramp regarding the off side rule would not necessarily be any indication of whether men know the rule better than women.
Try it outside a football ground and then look at the results.
That may cause a storm in your y-fronts.
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Yes, please do.
I'm a woman and I've been watching football for hundreds of years. I know the offside rule as well as, if not better, than the next man. At games I often call offside, or not as the case may be, and men around are arguing the other way. 99 times out of 100 I'm right.
On a serious note, 99/100 is pretty damn good, we do video analysis assessments in our training courses and the last video test we did I scored 12 out of 20 - the FIFA assistant referee only got 15 out of 20 right too!
You need to join our ranks!
As a little funny, the other day I was refereeing futsal at our national tournament and some mother was digging at me ALL game and the thought in my head was "STFU what on earth would you know about the rules, you're female!"
Oh the irony. :)
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Doing research on New Street ramp regarding the off side rule would not necessarily be any indication of whether men know the rule better than women.
Try it outside a football ground and then look at the results.
That may cause a storm in your y-fronts.
And if you asked 100 male referees and 100 female referees somehow i think you'd get the same number of correct responses from each group.
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how come women get to live longer than us ?
thats unfair isn't it ?
We may make the CL in that time we are pushing up daisies and they're scrubbing pots ;D
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We're still waiting for you to tell us what we're thinking.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Doing research on New Street ramp regarding the off side rule would not necessarily be any indication of whether men know the rule better than women.
Try it outside a football ground and then look at the results.
That may cause a storm in your y-fronts.
Excellent point regarding location Pauline. As with any kind of survey, the devil's in the detail - who you choose to ask, and how you choose to phrase the questions.
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how come women get to live longer than us ?
Because we know the off-side rule and don't go to be fretting about it. -;)
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We're still waiting for you to tell us what we're thinking.
look i apologise if i offended, wrong choice of words etc
this does make my blood boil mind
no consistency here IMO
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how come women get to live longer than us ?
Because we know the off-side rule and don't go to be fretting about it. -;)
would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
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would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
Not that you asked for it but as a female, I would make them publically apologise but not sack them, leave it around to embarrass them. :)
I would be extremely hypocritical to want them sacked as I have made some offensive sexist comments on several occasions but also received quite a few. Having a thick skin as a referee helps I guess.
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Would be good to get a general consensus
Do people on the whole just want rid of them both ????
I could understand that possibly.
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how come women get to live longer than us ?
Because we know the off-side rule and don't go to be fretting about it. -;)
would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
If only to get their droning voices off my tv yes. Otherwise, I'd fine them a considerable amount of money and warn them as their future behaviour. Oh, and ban them from any television work for the rest of the season.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Doing research on New Street ramp regarding the off side rule would not necessarily be any indication of whether men know the rule better than women.
Try it outside a football ground and then look at the results.
That may cause a storm in your y-fronts.
And if you asked 100 male referees and 100 female referees somehow i think you'd get the same number of correct responses from each group.
Yep.
The only difference being that the women would take forever to make their fucking minds up.
Only joking, wimmins *cheeky wink*
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would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
Not that you asked for it but as a female, I would make them publically apologise but not sack them, leave it around to embarrass them. :)
I would be extremely hypocritical to want them sacked as I have made some offensive sexist comments on several occasions but also received quite a few. Having a thick skin as a referee helps I guess.
Keys has phoned Sian Massey and apologised.
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I am struggling to see the screen with everyones high horses tethered to this thread. I am also willing to bet those posting on here outraged and offended by these comments are the same people f'ing and c'ing at the ref every saturday.
OK if you pop quiz 100 women tomorrow on new Street ramp and 100 men do you think more men or more women would understand offside?
It's a storm in a D cup.
You really don't get it, do you?
Doing research on New Street ramp regarding the off side rule would not necessarily be any indication of whether men know the rule better than women.
Try it outside a football ground and then look at the results.
That may cause a storm in your y-fronts.
And if you asked 100 male referees and 100 female referees somehow i think you'd get the same number of correct responses from each group.
Yep.
The only difference being that the women would take forever to make their fucking minds up.
Only joking, wimmins *cheeky wink*
ohhhhhhhhhh, good job you added that last bit paulie *even cheekier wink*
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would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
Not that you asked for it but as a female, I would make them publically apologise but not sack them, leave it around to embarrass them. :)
I would be extremely hypocritical to want them sacked as I have made some offensive sexist comments on several occasions but also received quite a few. Having a thick skin as a referee helps I guess.
Keys has phoned Sian Massey and apologised.
One of the most ironic things about all this, is that when it came to a controversial decision, she got it right.
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Who would you replace Gray & Keys with ? they've become embedded into the whole PL mirage
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If there was a god James Richardson would be hosting every football programme going.
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If there was a god James Richardson would be hosting every football programme going.
Yup.
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Who would you replace Gray & Keys with ? they've become embedded into the whole PL mirage
Don't know, as I don't have Sky Sports, and don't believe that just because they, or any other self-proclaimed 'experts' for that matter are experts. However, they're not indespensible, and at some stage invincible as they appear to be, Sky will have to think about succession planning.
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would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
Not that you asked for it but as a female, I would make them publically apologise but not sack them, leave it around to embarrass them. :)
I would be extremely hypocritical to want them sacked as I have made some offensive sexist comments on several occasions but also received quite a few. Having a thick skin as a referee helps I guess.
Keys has phoned Sian Massey and apologised.
One of the most ironic things about all this, is that when it came to a controversial decision, she got it right.
Exactly, and a very difficult call as well.
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Tch! Women! They're only good for two things - dancing backwards and fetching the beer! They should all be kept barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink up to their elbows in flour! </Bernard Manning>
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One of the most ironic things about all this, is that when it came to a controversial decision, she got it right.
She did get that one right. She got one wrong a few minutes later which wasn't picked up on but as the call came early enough in the move it didn't get to a potential Goal scoring position so wasn't a "Big Decision". It was about the same type of display as most linos give.
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilot was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my mrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
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The thing that gets my goat about Sky (by that I mean Keys and Gray) is that they seem to think they have a god given right to do as the please and say what they want because their parent company 'gives' the clubs millions of pounds to show the games on TV. I never had much respect for Keys anyway and its all gone now. The way he has talked to people down the years has been disgraceful at times putting managers under additional unnecessary pressure with pointless questions and telling them to 'do better'. Gray, albeit a Villa legend, has seriously gone down in my estimation simply because he seems like a 'yes man' as part of the conversation and agreeing with stuck up, out of touch keys and adding to the insults being thrown at this decent referees assistant, instead of telling Keys to wake up and smell the coffee. TBH couldn't have been better timed in Keys 19th year, hope he doesn't make it to 20. The wider issue is how long has this been going on for not just that they have been caught now......
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would you sack keys and Gray over this if you had control ?
Not that you asked for it but as a female, I would make them publically apologise but not sack them, leave it around to embarrass them. :)
I would be extremely hypocritical to want them sacked as I have made some offensive sexist comments on several occasions but also received quite a few. Having a thick skin as a referee helps I guess.
Keys has phoned Sian Massey and apologised.
One of the most ironic things about all this, is that when it came to a controversial decision, she got it right.
Which is not entirely correct.
She tried on a lovely beige trouser suit in H&M down the Merry Hill on the way to Wolverhampton, but plumped for the black frock instead, so it didn't make her arse look so big.
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilate was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my msrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
Are you for real? If a female fire-fighter/ambulance person was saving your life, would you care that they were female and not male?
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ahah, very good, Lee.
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilate was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my msrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
``
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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ahah, very good, Lee.
I thank you!
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilate was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my msrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
Considering you've not been able to spell pilot in two attempts, you're not the best advert for male supremacy I've ever come across.
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilate was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my msrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
Considering you've not been able to spell pilot in two attempts, you're not the best advert for male supremacy I've ever come across.
hands up, atrocious spelling, too may beers on the back of Bents goal. Up the Villa !! Come On
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilot was female ??
I wouldn't fly to Tenerife under any circumstances whatsoever.
How vile.
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Quick glance at the Mirror online: http://www.mirror.co.uk/, their front page photograph of Richard Keys is probably not the best photograph of him that's ever been taken.
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I know the offside rule but as for explaining it without sounding like a complete pranny, well...
And just to be pedantic, is it a rule or a law?
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It's a Law, it is Law 11.
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I know the offside rule but as for explaining it without sounding like a complete pranny, well...
And just to be pedantic, is it a rule or a law?
Officially, they are the 'Laws Of The Game'.
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Would you fly to Tenerife or similar if they announced the pilot was female ??
Not sure i would to be fair, my mrs makes a meal out of zebra crossings let alone an air field
I've got a mate who's a pilolt and apparently that's a lads profession too
Yes, I mean what if you were in hospital, and you were really, really vulnerable, helpless even, and you were young, real young, and couldn't fend for yourself, and it was touch and go whether you'd make it out into the world ok?
I mean, would you really want a woman to give birth to you?
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If there was a god James Richardson would be hosting every football programme going.
Alongside Danny Baker
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Pundits like Keys and Alan Green think that most people in football are a bit beneath them. I listened to yesterday's game on the radio and you'd think Green was doing everyone a favour by being there.
Keys and Gray were the same at the World Cup, apparently. And Sky aren't even rights holders.
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How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.
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How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.
Jesus! I read that too quickly. I thought for a sec you wanted to slip the bastard one.
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How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.
Jesus! I read that too quickly. I thought for a sec you wanted to slip the bastard one.
Replace slip with smack.
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It's puzzling that it's mainly men expressing their indignation. Women can't have it both ways; we either expect a man to defend and protect our honour and fragility or we expect equality and demonstrate our worth on an even playing field, as Sian Massey emphatically did.
Having lived, worked and played in male dominated environments for many, many years, I am more than able give as good as I get, and that is what I consider equality. The hypocrisy of certain female businesswomen who have connections with those in the soft porn trade does women no favours whatsovever.
I've got no time for the 'Sky Two', particularly Smarmy Keys, but personally I find it more 'sexist' for men to be offended on my behalf. That is patronising. Has anyone asked Sian Massey if she was offended? I'm willing to bet that she, like most of us women, has dealt with far worse than a 'women-don't-understand-offside' comment. She will have anticipated some abuse, as would her male counterparts, before assuming her position, so give her some credit. Unfortunately her excellent performance on Sunday has been overshadowed by media mass hysteria. Again, it is patronising.
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A big shrug of the shoulders from me. Yes there's sexism in life and women don't get a fair deal across the board. I won't bring up the fact that they are overpiad at the top tennis events (actually more than men pro rata), the fact that men are discriminated against at child birth, the first night afterwards, paternity rights, father's rights and so on. by getting onto this subject that there is inequality everywhere will inflict a wealth of,'yes but that doesn't count because...'.
Where men face it its accepted. Where women face it its broken down to the minutae and an irrelevant joke between two people becomes a Everest like molehill.
Wow. So the fact women get paid more pro-rata at a few of the big tennis events (which you dont want to bring up), apparently shows that men are just as discriminated against and papers over the fact that in the UK, women get paid on average just 80% of what men doing exactly the same job get paid? Or the biological fact that only women can give birth means they're massively discriminated against in employment for that too? And all of that is in the richer most developed countries, in much of the world women's relative position is far far worse.
Or - let's be honest - the fact that beyond a small percentage of relationships where things have changed, gender roles in most of our households have changed very little since the 1970s, with the woman doing the vast bulk of housework, childcare, etc - despite very often also going out to work these days? Or - after a very brief period when it was unfashionable - the fact that the Lad culture that encourages young men to see women as unfeeling objects has returned with a vengeance, with many women feeling inadequate and weight-obsessed as a result?
You acknowledge the existence of sexism, but seem a little unsure it's really such an issue.
Yes, the brain-dead ramblings of Keys & Gray pale beside the far greater problems of sexism in our society, but they're in a position of great influence, and if unchallenged their views will be seen as justified and will fuel the stereotypical macho bullshit around us, and for that reason they should be made an example of by Sky. Not that they will of course - by the channel whose female presenters with one or two exceptions seem chosen for their appeal to blokes? No chance.
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It's puzzling that it's mainly men expressing their indignation. Women can't have it both ways; we either expect a man to defend and protect our honour and fragility or we expect equality and demonstrate our worth on an even playing field, as Sian Massey emphatically did.
Having lived, worked and played in male dominated environments for many, many years, I am more than able give as good as I get, and that is what I consider equality. The hypocrisy of certain female businesswomen who have connections with those in the soft porn trade does women no favours whatsovever.
I've got no time for the 'Sky Two', particularly Smarmy Keys, but personally I find it more 'sexist' for men to be offended on my behalf. That is patronising. Has anyone asked Sian Massey if she was offended? I'm willing to bet that she, like most of us women, has dealt with far worse than a 'women-don't-understand-offside' comment. She will have anticipated some abuse, as would her male counterparts, before assuming her position, so give her some credit. Unfortunately her excellent performance on Sunday has been overshadowed by media mass hysteria. Again, it is patronising.
Really good post that is love. Well done. (",)
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Initial thought when I heard the decision that she'd got the gig was it's not right.
Not for the prehistoric reasoning of Gray and that hairy oaf of a mate of his, more from a concern about respect (or lack of ) she might get from the players.
The more I thought about it though the more it makes sense. If she's got to that level chances are she knows the rules of the game inside out (more than Gray, who's let himself down a few times in that regard). Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe. But sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reason.
As Lizz said, she got the biggest call of the day right too.
Will be interesting to see how this one plays out. BFR lost his TV job for ill judged and offensive comments. His defence too was that he did not know the mic was still on, as if that was OK. I'm not sure what the sliding scale is vis a vis racist-sexist comments, which is worse. Both are pretty archaic. You'd need to be pretty funny to get away with that type of subject matter today, and that's not something anyone could ever seriously level at Keys or Gray.
I do think they are more likely to keep their jobs than BFR though. He was an optional extra, one of many pundits ITV wheeled out for midweek matches. Keys and Gray are the voice of Sky Sports live coverage, in the latter case an increasingly rasping and artificially excited voice.
Wouldn't miss either of them. Anyone got any tapes of Lawro or Hansen saying something they shouldn't? That really would be a result.
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Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe.
From personal experience I can confirm that is not the case at all. Most players are more likely to give you a spray because you are female and sometimes you have no choice but to flash the yellow or red as some players' IQ's don't justify you giving them credit for intelligence and trying a word on the run warning.
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woman linesmen, woman refs? what is this world coming too ?
they will be giving them the vote next .....
ah...
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Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe.
From personal experience I can confirm that is not the case at all. Most players are more likely to give you a spray because you are female and sometimes you have no choice but to flash the yellow or red as some players' IQ's don't justify you giving them credit for intelligence and trying a word on the run warning.
Well perhaps if you were to learn the offside rule they wouldn't be so nasty! ;)
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It's puzzling that it's mainly men expressing their indignation. Women can't have it both ways; we either expect a man to defend and protect our honour and fragility or we expect equality and demonstrate our worth on an even playing field, as Sian Massey emphatically did.
Having lived, worked and played in male dominated environments for many, many years, I am more than able give as good as I get, and that is what I consider equality. The hypocrisy of certain female businesswomen who have connections with those in the soft porn trade does women no favours whatsovever.
I've got no time for the 'Sky Two', particularly Smarmy Keys, but personally I find it more 'sexist' for men to be offended on my behalf. That is patronising. Has anyone asked Sian Massey if she was offended? I'm willing to bet that she, like most of us women, has dealt with far worse than a 'women-don't-understand-offside' comment. She will have anticipated some abuse, as would her male counterparts, before assuming her position, so give her some credit. Unfortunately her excellent performance on Sunday has been overshadowed by media mass hysteria. Again, it is patronising.
There's no such thing as defending honour and fragility. There's defending equality. Giving as good as you get is falling in to the trap.
So, a man being offended because of a sexist act is more sexist than the perpetrator of the act? And you're being just as patronising by assuming we are offended and not looking at the facts in a cold "right" and "wrong" way.
Being, white, am I allowed to be offended on behalf of black victims of racism?
Unless I have totally misread your post, of course!
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There's no such thing as defending honour and fragility. There's defending equality. Giving as good as you get is falling in to the trap.
So, a man being offended because of a sexist act is more sexist than the perpetrator of the act? And you're being just as patronising by assuming we are offended and not looking at the facts in a cold "right" and "wrong" way.
Being, white, am I allowed to be offended on behalf of black victims of racism?
Unless I have totally misread your post, of course!
My take on it as well. It's got nothing to do with sticking up for "poor little women", but everything to do with highlighting utter stupidity and ignorance from people who should know better, especially if they are so-called experts in the area.
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I failed to add that Perry Barr Pet is correct in what she says for some people, though. It's a wide spectrum of people on HandV. It's very, very hard not to generalise. I find it nigh on impossible sometimes to write things without adding caveat after caveat.
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The other thing is though, of course it's going to be mainly men commenting on this thread. What's the percentage of male to female posters on here? It's hardly an even split.
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I see the female assistant referee in question is at Crewe vs Bradford tonight. Sky could send Keys and Gray to cover this match as punishment!
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Karen Carney , England International and Bluenose couldnt resist having a pop at Villa ' Andy grey sums him up he used to play for villa'
How very dare her ! X
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Karen Carney , England International and Bluenose couldnt resist having a pop at Villa ' Andy grey sums him up he used to play for villa'
How very dare her ! X
She's a woman. What does she know about football?
(http://myspace.roflposters.com/images/rofl/myspace/1235096894683.jpg.%5Broflposters.com%5D.myspace.jpg)
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Wouldn't miss either of them. Anyone got any tapes of Lawro or Hansen saying something they shouldn't? That really would be a result.
Shearer <praying emoticon thingy>
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Shearer <praying emoticon thingy>
Shearer saying anything controversial about anything or even offering an opinion would be a landmark day in sports broadcasting.
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Shearer
Someone needs to explain the English language to Shearer.
Sen-serstional!!
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There's no such thing as defending honour and fragility. There's defending equality. Giving as good as you get is falling in to the trap.
So, a man being offended because of a sexist act is more sexist than the perpetrator of the act? And you're being just as patronising by assuming we are offended and not looking at the facts in a cold "right" and "wrong" way.
Being, white, am I allowed to be offended on behalf of black victims of racism?
Unless I have totally misread your post, of course!
My take on it as well. It's got nothing to do with sticking up for "poor little women", but everything to do with highlighting utter stupidity and ignorance from people who should know better, especially if they are so-called experts in the area.
Can't agree more
I don't actually agree with Perry Barr Pet that women can't have it both ways. I personally think this is a rather antiquated view of feminism. Being good at a job and "being protected" is not mutually exclusive. I think we are past the days when to get on women have to behave like men. People are individuals and have different skill sets not necessarily related to gender.
I actually earn significantly more than Mr Clogger (which helps pay for Sky and season tickets) and have got there on merit and do have equality with male colleagues. I am also more than happy for him to reach things from high shelves, carry heavy things ('cos I am a bit short and wimpy) and get all macho and protective when I am being hassled by lairy blokes in pubs.
Likewise I have mates who earn less than their husbands but are a dab hand at DIY, financial planning and gardening.
All equality means is that people, of whatever gender, race, etc have the right to take whatever path they choose and not be prevented from doing so, or discriminated against solely because of their gender or race or whatever...
Several people at the WM Villa forum shouting about free speech last night which totally misses the issue.
Nice to see that the vast majority on here do see the issue.
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I think they will be going now, it even looks like their employers want them out.
Both have had a very long time at Sky, earned great money doing what we'd all like to do, and maybe it will be good to freshen up the programmes.
Ken Wolstenholms(sp) they aren't!
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Oh dear. It seems my post was largely misunderstood, but never mind. 'Honour and fragility' was said tongue-in-cheek, and I wasn't referring to the men only on this forum.
Clogger: Thank you for the lecture on equality. Where would we be without enlightened women like you? I also 'see the issue', I just choose to react in my own 'antiquated' way.
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I think they will be going now, it even looks like their employers want them out.
Both have had a very long time at Sky, earned great money doing what we'd all like to do, and maybe it will be good to freshen up the programmes.
Ken Wolstenholms(sp) they aren't!
I hope they go but i'd be surprised if they sack them, there is a story on the sun's website this morning of Keys and Gray on a monday night football show from 1998, they got the giggles after watching some women's football and had to cut the show short. It is time for a change as they are very predictable so move them on!
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Oh dear. It seems my post was largely misunderstood, but never mind. 'Honour and fragility' was said tongue-in-cheek, and I wasn't referring to the men only on this forum.
It's hard conveying "tongue-in-cheek" without using emoticons, and I'm glad you didn't use them!
I think we're mostly all on the same side, coming from different directions.
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Oh dear. It seems my post was largely misunderstood, but never mind. 'Honour and fragility' was said tongue-in-cheek, and I wasn't referring to the men only on this forum.
Clogger: Thank you for the lecture on equality. Where would we be without enlightened women like you? I also 'see the issue', I just choose to react in my own 'antiquated' way.
I've read your post again and am still not sure what there was to misunderstand - your post expressed a view many hold, both male and female. A view I don't fully agree with. If you were being tongue in cheek then it did not come through the internet, which is often the case when things are written rather than spoken.
My post quite clearly was my opinion. Not a lecture to you. Nor was I suggesting you did not see the issue, rather referring to people who are saying "it was just a bit of banter".If you choose to interpret it as such then so be it. I don't think there was any need for sarcasm though. I am happy to debate and agree to disagree without resorting to that.
I don't think fundamentally most people disagree about the principle.
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How I would love Alan Green to cock up big time on air.
He does every Saturday night it's just that people accept his rants as normal!
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If this descends into violence, my money is on clogger. She sounds nails
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Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe.
From personal experience I can confirm that is not the case at all. Most players are more likely to give you a spray because you are female and sometimes you have no choice but to flash the yellow or red as some players' IQ's don't justify you giving them credit for intelligence and trying a word on the run warning.
Maybe.
Do you run the line at parks football or the professional game? Parks players always believe they can get away with murder (though the fines obviously sting a bit more). They don't have the full glare of the TV and written media to contend with.
Would an odious little individual like Ashley Cole want to dent his reputation further by being seen to swear and curse at a female lineswoman/ assistant? He might not be bothered, but there's a chance he'd be more tempted to hold his tongue, for fear of the publicity it would generate.
'He's only winding his neck in because it's a female lineswoman, if it was a bloke he wouldn't care' would be the positive discrimination at play there. But again, if it ends with the result of him and others being less twattish, it could only be a good thing surely.
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Karen Carney , England International and Bluenose couldnt resist having a pop at Villa ' Andy grey sums him up he used to play for villa'
How very dare her ! X
I thought she was a Villa fan? Her family support Villa, at least the ones I know.
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If this descends into violence, my money is on clogger. She sounds nails
We must have met ;D
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Karen Carney , England International and Bluenose couldnt resist having a pop at Villa ' Andy grey sums him up he used to play for villa'
How very dare her ! X
I thought she was a Villa fan? Her family support Villa, at least the ones I know.
She plays for the female equivalent of Small Heath Alliance.
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From personal experience I can confirm that is not the case at all. Most players are more likely to give you a spray because you are female
From my experience players will have a go at any ref they where they think can get away with it, regardless of gender. I gave an example earlier of a game I played in where the lad started his abuse for a bad decision, realised it was a female ref and then tailored it appropriately be using "bitch", she gave him a few choice words back and the game carried on. Not big or clever but a heat of the moment reaction and recognised as such by the ref and everything was fine after that.
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There's no point in Gray and Keys apologising because it isn't appropriate for them to do so.
They clearly believe that women have no place officiating at professional football matches and no amount of apologising can alter the fact that that is what they believe. Not that their views are in any way relevant as the FA is actively pursuing a strategy to get more women officiating in the male game and Gray and Keys have absolutely no influence over this whatsoever.
They had no intention to make these views known to the general public or the female "lino" in particular and any embarassment caused to Ms Massey is attributable to the Sky mole who decided to leak the recording presumably to destroy Gray and Keys careers.
The ball is in Sky's court now and if they are of the view that football cannot be presented or analysed by people who believe that women shouldn't officiate then Gray and Keys will have to go.
The fact that they have released the additional footage of Gray before the match would suggest that is the way they are heading as it looks as though they are attempting to make his position untenable.
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The fact that they have released the additional footage of Gray before the match would suggest that is the way they are heading as it looks as though they are attempting to make his position untenable
.
It's interesting - the conspiricy theorist in me can't help thinking that this is the same Andy Gray who is threatinng to sue Murdoch (News Intl) for allegedly tapping his phone calls.
He could be in the unique postion of receiving a redundancy cheque and a compensation cheque in the same envelope?
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So what's everyone's opinion on the Soccer AM Soccerette's? Is that sexist?
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Andy Grays been sacked
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from the sky news twitter:
SkyNewsBreak Sky News Newsdesk
Sky Sports presenter Andy Gray has been sacked in the wake of comments made about female assistant referee Sian Massey
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That's pissed me off .
Gray is iconic. My generation have grown up with his voice as THE voice of modern day televisual football.
Absolutely horrendous decision.
Sky will be running back to him. Count on it.
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Apparently it relates to something he said in December.
Which means, I imagine, he was warned about something, has done it again, and is now sacked
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According to the breaking news ticker on the Grauniad site, it follows 'new evidence of unacceptable and offensive behaviour'
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Pathetic , just heard another reporter got suspensed for saying the linesman ( lineswoman ) was a looker.. FFS , whats it coming to ...
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That's pissed me off .
Gray is iconic. My generation have grown up with his voice as THE voice of modern day televisual football.
Absolutely horrendous decision.
Sky will be running back to him. Count on it.
Will they bollocks.
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Absolute joke - the world's gone pc barmy!
Andy Gray is the one pundit who talks football sense. And the only co-commentator who spots most things instantly and doesn't need five replays before making his mind up.
A big loss to Sky's coverage.
I've had enough of them now.
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Big Sam was rubbish last night at it ... and the others aint much better...
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That's pissed me off .
Gray is iconic. My generation have grown up with his voice as THE voice of modern day televisual football.
Absolutely horrendous decision.
Sky will be running back to him. Count on it.
Will they bollocks.
U Mad?
Sky will miss him more than he will miss Sky.
He'll have a line of jobs waiting for him.
He's irreplaceable, who's going to be the voice of football on Sky Sports now? Gary Lineker?!
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Joke. Especially for an off air comment. Wonder who leaked it? Hope they're feeling happy now.
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he might want to come back as assistant manager now
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Maybe ITV will have him , fook , they need somebody... those commentators are awful...
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got to say i'm supprised at that news
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Never warmed to the guy.
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Absolute joke - the world's gone pc barmy!
I know, I know.
When will they ever realize that Apple Mac has so much more possibilities re multimedia and content. No viruses either.
All good things must come to an end, and some bad things too. I won't weep for Gray, couldn't stand his faux excitement and how his rants would go up an octave, even when he was describing a pretty basic goal.
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No three match ban then?
There is a whole list of iconic irreplaceable commentators and pundits back to David Coleman and Kenneth Wolstenholme, without which TV football would never be the same. Oh well at least we still have greats left like Adrian Childs and Jeff Stelling
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he got a warning for his comments at the weekend, then someone grassed him up for something he said last month!
How long before he appears on Talksport?
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Isn't he suing News Group Newspapers re the phone tapping scandal? That's part of Murdochs Empire. Hmmmmmm interesting.
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Something about putting a microphone down his trousers :o
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That's pissed me off .
Gray is iconic. My generation have grown up with his voice as THE voice of modern day televisual football.
Absolutely horrendous decision.
Sky will be running back to him. Count on it.
And it's attitudes like this that made Gray feel untouchable. Ordinary pundit who constantly belittled officials with his criticism following multi-angle replays.
He can come back as our assistant now.
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All gone tits up for him then
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Breaking news - Gray has been sacked - apparently new evidence of inappropriate behaviour has come out.
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bbc reporting andy gray has been sacked by sky., apparently he was warned over an incident last month and this was final straw.
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Get stuffed Gray, you arrogant fat cock-end
Talksport beckons...........
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Just so long as Jamie Redknapp doesn't become chief pundit....
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Fcuk that for a game of soldiers.
Stick him on the Gadget Show, he can replace that scary bloke with the huge eyebrows.
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yep, ssn reporting it was to do with this incident at the weekend and another incident in december...
good riddance i say...
his constant "i wonder if he had done the exact opposite of what he just did, would the outcome have been different" comments and his "i knew he was going to do that" marvel after the event predictions was all he was about as a commentator...
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spichless absolutely spichless
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350425/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-fresh-storm-lewd-sexist-behaviour.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
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on another thread already
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
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I have to say that's a bit harsh in my view. Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350425/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-fresh-storm-lewd-sexist-behaviour.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
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Perhaps he just got too big for his boots at Sky and they've used this as a convenient excuse to get rid of him?
It's a shame because he's easily their best pundit, and no one comes close to him on Sky. I wonder what he'll do now, because I can't see other media outfits touching for a while. Perhaps he'll put his money where his mouth is and finally become a manager.
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He will pop up talking shyte on talkshyte soon....
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Tek a bow son.
And take your desk contents, your rubber plant and all your other shit with you when you leave not forgetting to hand in your pass at the front desk.
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Hope the panel members on Loose Women are treated the same next time they slag blokes off.
Dangerous precedent.
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Bellend.
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It's Super Sunday! Lets go live to the gantry with Martin Tyler and our star signing...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/30/article-0-000E2F3F00000258-25_306x423.jpg)
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I have to say that's a bit harsh in my view. Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
I agree.
A reprimand was sufficient.
As much as I dislike him and his Wookie sidekick.
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He will pop up talking shyte on talkshyte soon....
Just tweeted the same thought
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Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
That's the hilarious irony.
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http://blog.itv.com/news/julieetchingham/2011/01/putting-the-boot-in/
An ITV take on the situation
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Bellend.
What a twat.
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Oh and I assume the "Soccerette" will be dropped from Soccer AM too??
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It's Super Sunday! Lets go live to the gantry with Martin Tyler and our star signing...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/11/30/article-0-000E2F3F00000258-25_306x423.jpg)
Jim Leighton making a comeback?
He's lost the Swiss butter mountain he had dripping off his forehead and it looks like he's found his teeth again.
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When do we get Gabby Logan's opinion?
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You'll all be sorry when Tim 'prick' Lovejoy get's the job!
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
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Jamie Redknapp will be busting out of his tiny suit to get this job.
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Oh and I assume the "Soccerette" will be dropped from Soccer AM too??
That's what I was hinting at earlier.
It's a disgrace I tell you. A disgrace.
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That's what I was hinting at earlier.
It's a disgrace I tell you. A disgrace
Does anyone over 12 still watch Soccer AM?
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Oh and I assume the "Soccerette" will be dropped from Soccer AM too??
That's what I was hinting at earlier.
It's a disgrace I tell you. A disgrace.
The concept of irony is wholly lost on some people.
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If he's got the boot simply for what he said at the weekend (though there's probably more to it) then it's pretty harsh because he didn't say that that female official didn't understand the offside rule, but that women didn't. Big Ron was different because his comments were made specifically about Desailly.
He's still an idiot though, and he should have apologised like Keys did.
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Who loves equality?
(http://img.skysports.com/08/09/218x298/soccerette2linz_1194501.jpg)
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Has hairy hands gone too?
I know it's probably been said a fair few times on here already, just haven't gone through the thread but if so it has to be jimbo Richardson
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Soccer AM is indeed rubbish, but as Sky has now become the moral guardian of the football coverage I would hope it follows the theme through into Sky News, where it employs ex-models as presenters and Soccer AM where casual sexism is rife too.
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That's what I was hinting at earlier.
It's a disgrace I tell you. A disgrace
Does anyone over 12 still watch Soccer AM?
Yea.
I only watch Soccer AM on occasion to see the Soccerete take her shirt off.
INB4 OMG YOU'RE SO SEXIST!!!!!!! YOU BIGOT!!!!!!
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he wasnt popular on here, but i liked Andy Gray as a pundit on Sky,
but i feel he probably wasnt that popular with people he worked with, he got set up, and they then took the opportunity to get rid,
a bit like when John Gaunt went from Talksport, you just felt that they were just looking for a reason to sack him because he was such an obnoxious fat twat [ is that fattist, or twatist ?]
hey Mac, maybe he'l have a spare bit of time to open to your Asda now
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Judging offsides in the epl is slightly more nuanced and difficult than turning up once a week to 'analyse' the extent to which a striker has "SMASHED IT".
Having heard the recording seems keys was way worse, he seems genuinely angry that a woman was working in football, didn't realise the capacity to judge offside comes from the penis.
Rant over, sorry everyone
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Soccer AM is a quasi "comedy" show that included the ying and yang of Lovejoy taking the piss out of womens football and the Soccerette and having Helen Chamberlain as host, an educated and knowledgable female football fan.
The Soccerette was particularly "ironic" and as such has never been viewed as sexist.
Gray's opinions contain no irony whatsoever, nor did Keys if the clip is anything to go by.
Thats the difference.
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Judging offsides in the epl is slightly more nuanced and difficult than turning up once a week to 'analyse' the extent to which a striker has "SMASHED IT".
Having heard the recording seems keys was way worse, he seems genuinely angry that a woman was working in football, didn't realise the capacity to judge offside comes from the penis.
Rant over, sorry everyone
That's kind of what I was thinking. In that the recording I heard that they played on the news, it was hairy hands making all the remarks rather than Andy. can't see sky only sacking the one and not the other.
Or rather than Jim Richardson how about the lads from the football ramble podcast... Now that would be funny!
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Keys should have no trouble getting another job. Pop a waistcoat and a fez on him, drug him stupid and drag him around swimming pools on the Costa Del Sol for English tourists to have their pictures taken with him. The fackin' chimp
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
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It may have been ironic in 1996, but it's hardly that now.
So a guy makes a comment off air about women not understanding the offside rule... really a sacking offence? I'm sure she is a good assistant ref (she must be to get to that level) and knows the rules and it makes Gray look a muppet, but sackable?
I just hope the same rules are applied by Sky to every comment that is made off air by its presenters and then sent to the press.
And I don't even like Andy Gray!
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Gray leaves Villa for Sky then gets the bullet. I'm struggling to be sympathetic. Wasn't BFR our manager when he left, he also got the push for off air utterances. Careful what you say about Alan Green on FiveLive Sir Graham or you're next.
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Football will be a better place without Andy Gray talking bollocks over the top of it. Not if we can just get rid of Jamie Redknapp, or at least stop him looking like he's on a white knuckle ride when on a spiny chair.
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It may have been ironic in 1996, but it's hardly that now.
So a guy makes a comment off air about women not understanding the offside rule... really a sacking offence? I'm sure she is a good assistant ref (she must be to get to that level) and knows the rules and it makes Gray look a muppet, but a sackable?
I just hope the same rules are applied by Sky to every comment that is made off air by its presenters and then sent to the press.
And I don't even like Andy Gray!
We don't know what previous he has though? I'm of a similar opinion (as can be seen in my previous posts on this subject). An absolutely idiotic and ignorant conversation between the two of them about somebody that probably has more of a grasp on the rules of the game than they do. But I don't think he should have been sacked for this alone (and if anything Keys should have gone ahead of Gray). But that's taking it in isolation, i'm sure whatever was said / done previously will eventually get leaked.
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It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
How other way can you look at it?
The woman in question is fully qualified, has done her time climbing up the ranks of the other leagues and clearly, from her performance at Molineux, knows the laws of the game including the offside rule.
What other reason, other than being a bit of a bigot, could anyone have for thinking she should never officiate at the top level?
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
Yes, holding that view DOES mean that you are a bigot
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Isn't he suing News Group Newspapers re the phone tapping scandal? That's part of Murdochs Empire. Hmmmmmm interesting.
Orders from the top then.
I've been waiting for an excuse to cancel sky and this could be it - when my neighbour threatened to over the Haye-Harrison fight they came back and offered him a cheaper deal, so it's worth a try.
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Oh dear, the liberal police are out this evening in force.
Walk out the front door into the world of reality.
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
Not really, despite Massey obviously completing all the training and assesments in order for her to be awarded a top flight football match, Gray and Keys didn't believe that she was worthy of the position. Why? because she was a Woman. A fairly entrentched view in my opinion hence the "bigot" reference.
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He should have been reprimanded, but sacking him is a bit harsh to be honest.
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
Yes, holding that view DOES mean that you are a bigot
Grow up.
Intresting how you have a pop at Tim Tebow for holier-than-thou attitude.
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U Mad?
Sky will miss him more than he will miss Sky.
He'll have a line of jobs waiting for him.
He's irreplaceable, who's going to be the voice of football on Sky Sports now? Gary Lineker?!
I find this somewhat unlikely. He's just a rent-a-trap, the same as the rest. They'll get someone else in no problem.
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In what way is half a dozen or so lardy football football fans leering at a scantily clad Soccerette in anyway "ironic"? This is Sky we're talking about here.
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It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
Do you think that POV is acceptable then? If so, why? Why does a lino need a cock and bollocks to do their job properly?
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Isn't he suing News Group Newspapers re the phone tapping scandal? That's part of Murdochs Empire. Hmmmmmm interesting.
Orders from the top then.
I've been waiting for an excuse to cancel sky and this could be it - when my neighbour threatened to over the Haye-Harrison fight they came back and offered him a cheaper deal, so it's worth a try.
I've probably read this wrong so apologies, but are you saying that subscription TV just wouldn't be worth it without Gray?
Maybe if you, The Situation and others feel so strongly about this there's money to be made. I'm thinking an Anthony Robbins-style CD or boxset collection, a 12-18 set series of inspirational commentaries "You Beauty!" for mug punters to listen to on the way to work.
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He forgot about the off camera offhand rule about off colour rermarks. he is not the first...
From listening to his remarks he doesn't agree that Women can be officials in the game, so maybe he should walk away from the game if he doesn't like it. Along with his mate and every other bigot.
It's interesting that you believe that if someone holds the view that women shouldn't officiate at top level football matches they are automatically a bigot.
Seems a little over the top.
Yes, holding that view DOES mean that you are a bigot
I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
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Seems that there might be 2 careers ruined by this storm in a tea cup.
Not a big fan of Keys , quite liked AGray.....not sure i wanted him sacked though, and i feel the lady linesman might be a victim of this pathetic media frenzy as well.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
Hmmm. So presumably then, on the one hand you're fine with women taking referee's exam's etc, but on the other, saying that for some entirely unnamed reason, they are incapable of officiating at Premier League matches.
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That new footage is embarrassing. Gray is a neanderthal - I liked Ferdinand's 'prehistoric' description - and is best left to mope around at the bar at that dodgy pub on the corner you never like to go too near if you can help it. To add to this, he also might be the worst summarise in the universe (I'd rather listen to Lawrenson's awful 'jokes' than hear him say "he really smashed it" one more bloody time), offering nothing in the way of insight but cliches and remarks about football as out of date as his views on gender equality - oh, that and jiggling the attacking midfielder icon around in the formation summary to indicate the 'free role' (cheers, could never have guessed). The worst of the "former players must make good pundits" brigade is gone, thank God.
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Seems that there might be 2 careers ruined by this storm in a tea cup.
Not a big fan of Keys , quite liked AGray.....not sure i wanted him sacked though, and i feel the lady linesman might be a victim of this pathetic media frenzy as well.
Nah, she's officiating a lower league game in the week. She'll be back in the Prem soon enough.
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Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
That's the hilarious irony.
It is ironic, but you were very angry the other day about Ricky Gervais and his comments. Maybe a lot of women are angry about Andy Gray?
Or does personal experience only count?
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In what way is half a dozen or so lardy football football fans leering at a scantily clad Soccerette in anyway "ironic"? This is Sky we're talking about here.
Because it was something of a throwback to the 70's "Miss World" type things that had pretty much vanished from our screens by the time Soccer AM started, similar to the success of the "Lad Culture" and Loaded magazine.
The problem is, the lad culture died long ago it's just a pity Soccer AM didn't, but back to the point. There have never been any serious complaints about Soccer AM, because it's a comedy programme. Crass? yes, funny? a matter of opinion but I'd be surprised if anyone ever viewed it as anything other than a promotional tool for Sky's football coverage. Key's and Gray, as proved by some of the comments on here, were taken seriously and respected for their views. Hence the uproar.
Of course this uproar is distorted by the anti-Murdoch newspapers spying an opportunity, but it doesn't lessen the impact of the comments.
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As long as i don't have to hear that ' Take a bow son' catchphrase of his for a while I'll be alright.
I must admit I've had it in for Gray over the last few years, being overly critical, writing us off and being quite disparaging in general, but when I met him he was referring to Villa as we, so not quite the prick I thought he was going to be.
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I think most pundits should have a certain shelf life. When was Gray last playing in the top flight,25 years ago?
The games is a different game now,so get someone younger in i reckon.
But to be honest,i sky plus most games and watch them 15 mins later and fast forward the half time bullshit.
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He cannot expect to be found out making comments like that and get away with it and those clutching at straws trying to defend it speak volumes about their own attitudes. Now, let's hope his furry friend is next.
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Are there any women presenters over the age of 40 working for Sky? I bet there isn't. There's plenty of 40+ male presenters though.
There's sexism for you.
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In summary, Gray is a horrible wanker and someone has taken the opportunity to get shot of him. Well played, whoever it was.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
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As long as i don't have to hear that ' Take a bow son' catchphrase of his for a while I'll be alright.
I must admit I've had it in for Gray over the last few years, being overly critical, writing us off and being quite disparaging in general, but when I met him he was referring to Villa as we, so not quite the prick I thought he was going to be.
In fairness to Gray, I seem to remember him leaving the Sky set in disgust after the Blues beat us 3-0 way back when.
However, he's still a boring broadcaster in my view, what with all the touch screen consoles and everything. The set looks like the Starship Enterprise now. Just show us the fucking football you arseholes.
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Are there any women presenters over the age of 40 working for Sky? I bet there isn't. There's plenty of 40+ male presenters though.
There's sexism for you.
Very true.
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Sam matterface who worked for ssn before talksport has been on radio saying gray was very unpopular amongst a lot of sky staff- seems he's had this coming for a while .
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The bottom line is, I think, if Keys and Gray had been on a jokey chat show (like Loose Women) they could have said these things. No problem there.
I can't understand why people can't see the difference.
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Andy-Gray-sacked-Watch-the-video-footage-of-Sky-Sports-star-s-crude-remarks-to-Charlotte-Jackson-which-led-to-dismissal-after-warning-following-sexist-remarks-to-Sian-Massey-with-Richard-Keys-article681537.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
this is the footage that got gray sacked
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The bottom line is, I think, if Keys and Gray had been on a jokey chat show (like Loose Women) they could have said these things. No problem there.
I can't understand why people can't see the difference.
Aye, there was proper venom in what they were saying.
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The bottom line is, I think, if Keys and Gray had been on a jokey chat show (like Loose Women) they could have said these things. No problem there.
I can't understand why people can't see the difference.
Exactly, and the tone of their comments is clearly not light hearted banter.
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Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
That's the hilarious irony.
It is ironic, but you were very angry the other day about Ricky Gervais and his comments. Maybe a lot of women are angry about Andy Gray?
Or does personal experience only count?
It's probably less than ideal in some respects that some TV presenters are picked for their looks and gender. It's always gone on though, from the year dot. The alternative is a TV channel populated by Adrian Chiles clones, and I don't think the world is ready for that.
Sky do seem to mix it up a bit, generally one blonde alongside a male anchor. Imaginative, but there you go. In fairness, Hayley McQueen's father is an ex footballer and Vicky Wotsit also used to play for Fulham ladies.
Also, I don't think you'll ever face too much legal action for giving people jobs, unless it's clear that you've deliberately overlooked better qualified candidates. Suggesting that people can't do jobs on the basis of gender -as Gray and Keys did- is a different matter altogether.
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The bottom line is, I think, if Keys and Gray had been on a jokey chat show (like Loose Women) they could have said these things. No problem there.
I can't understand why people can't see the difference.
One word. Context.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
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I think the comments made to Charlotte. Jackson asking her her to tuck the box down his trousers was the final straw- the look on her face says what she thinks and apparently gray was given a warning over it- it's a culmination of at least 3 offences that has cost his job .
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jamie redknapp is trending on twitter, people are saying no more andy gray means more redknapp. people aren't happy!
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
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I think the comments made to Charlotte. Jackson asking her her to tuck the box down his trousers was the final straw- the look on her face says what she thinks and apparently gray was given a warning over it- it's a culmination of at least 3 offences that has cost his job .
[/quote
that was his yellow card then...
I noticed the line assistant is not doing her game after all...
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Gave the clip another shot, they sounded very bitter. Bitter and backward.
One would think being paid shitloads doing a dream job for 20 years would make you more content and comfortable as opposed to being full of bile and ignorance. Or am I missing something about working conditions at Sky Sports?
In another working environment, the comment aimed at Charlotte Jackson would have earned him a disciplinary at least. Why has it taken an off-air mic and a Youtube clip for Sky to act?
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I think he got off lightly. I would have thrown him under a horse.
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
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I have to say that's a bit harsh in my view. Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
Same here.
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
Where's that confirmed?
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Well I`ve been waiting a long time for karma to kick in.Andy Gray,I used to salute you,now I wouldn`t spit on your grave-you 70s Glasgow-crap hair-egomaniacal-Everton loving-WANKER.
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
Now that I don't understand. All he said was that she was a bit of a looker.
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
Where's that confirmed?
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-drop-Andy-Burton-after-Sian-Massey-comments-article681447.html
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
what? sacked or just the suspension...
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
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suspensed for saying shes a looker, thats getting a little stupid....
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Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
Have you ever heard a woman commentating? I haven't. Just can't get over the fact that you think this is what would happen every time a goal was scored.
I tell you what, I don't think I could find it anymore annoying than Tyldesley shrieking 'ROOOOOOOONNNNEEEEY' everytime he's anywhere near the 18 yard box with the ball.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
I assume you're referring to Jaqui Oatley who indeed has a rather high pitched voice that is obviously not to your taste. And on that basis you don't think any females should be commentators?
There you go, you've just proved my point.
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If it means more Redknapp,bring back Andy Gray,or even better just have an old fashioned test card like they did in the 70s and 80s,would give more interesting views than Rednapp.
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I don't particularly enjoy Jaqui Oatley's commentaries but she beats Tyldesley hands down.
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Not keen on Jaqui Oatley as a commentator myself actually, not because she's a woman or particularly high pitched, just that she's not very good. Always thought she was fine as a match reporter mind.
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If it means more Redknapp,bring back Andy Gray,or even better just have an old fashioned test card like they did in the 70s and 80s,would give more interesting views than Rednapp.
Redknapp the irritating prat should be sacked for not being able to speak properly. It's not 'fink', it's 'think'. It's not 'bovverd' it's 'bothered', etc etc. Just how the hell does he get on the telly?
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Redknapp the irritating prat should be sacked for not being able to speak properly. It's not 'fink', it's 'think'. It's not 'bovverd' it's 'bothered', etc etc. Just how the hell does he get on the telly?
Well, he played the game, so all football fans must want to hear his views on a regular basis. See Ian Wright. I'm close to applauding every time the knuckle-dragging imbecile completes a sentence.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
Your username suggests that you're something of a shortarse.
I never realised I was a bigot, but it seems that I'm thoroughly against reading the opinions of short, bitter (though admittedly probably very trim at 11st2". I don't want to listen to you but we could always go to the pictures? I'm a good kisser.) Northreners.
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Bit gutted Monkey man hasn't gone as well. I wont miss Gray
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Get stuffed Gray, you arrogant fat cock-end
Talksport beckons...........
When I heard the news I though Chico and Mac might be slightly happy about that.
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Gray has been caught 'with his pants down' and had to go, banter or no banter. Shame Keys hasn't too as he deserves to be shown the door just the same. Keys must have made other comments / gestures in the past its just that Gray has been caught and Keys hasn't. I sincerely hope that someone comes forward and dobs Keys in so that he gets the final shove. If Keys comes back for the next live game it will be an injustice. If he shows his face he might as well just stick his two fingers up to the camera.
What is funny is that I've had Sky Sports News on for ages and not even a mention until a minute ago, and even then it was as short as possible.
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Am i missing something? AGray makes a suggestive comment to a female colleague, of course none of us have done that before have we.
Meanwhile Rio Ferdinand, the modern exponent of liberal thinking.........is that the same Rio Ferdinand who made a video of him and his mates "roasting " ?
Lot of two faced hypocrisy everywhere today.
AGray or Smug face Redknapp?...........AGray every time.
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
Your username suggests that you're something of a shortarse.
I never realised I was a bigot, but it seems that I'm thoroughly against reading the opinions of short, bitter (though admittedly probably very trim at 11st2". I don't want to listen to you but we could always go to the pictures? I'm a good kisser.) Northreners.
I get your point although why bitter? Certainly not bigotted though as I'm totally tolerant of views favouring women commentators it's just a point of view.
As for the user name, that in hindsight was a mistake it looks stupid and is often misinterpreted. They ain't my stats they belong to Brian Little - Rothmans 74/75 season.
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Am i missing something? AGray makes a suggestive comment to a female colleague, of course none of us have done that before have we.
Guilty as charged, most days I ask female (and occasionally male) colleagues if they would like either a tea or a coffee. I have been known to make a warm ribena from time to time too.
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Am i missing something? AGray makes a suggestive comment to a female colleague, of course none of us have done that before have we.
Meanwhile Rio Ferdinand, the modern exponent of liberal thinking.........is that the same Rio Ferdinand who made a video of him and his mates "roasting " ?
Lot of two faced hypocrisy everywhere today.
AGray or Smug face Redknapp?...........AGray every time.
You might make the suggestive comments to a female colleague but under most HR rules if she complained about it you would be disciplined or sacked. You can see by her reaction she wasn't happy about it.
I would say the way the Sky Statement says that he was warned about the Comments Saturday but did was sacked on these ones even though it was before the warning so I wonder if she did put in an official complaint.
And as for Rio. Well that was up to Manure (or was it West Ham then) to discipline at the time, not Sky.
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suspensed for saying shes a hooker, thats getting a little stupid....
A bit personal really, but no, i think they were a bit harsh on him too.
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I'm still not sure that anyone who has *actually listened* to the remarks between Gray and Keys could describe them as `banter'.
There was nothing jokey or lighthearted about anything they said.
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Andy Burton has gone as well, the cock.
Is the the freak they wheel out on transfer deadline day?
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So Andy Gray files legal proceedings against Murdoch-owned newspaper and three weeks later is sacked from job at Murdoch-owned Sky television? Interesting.
(By the way I'm not making light or condoning the comments).
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I disagree, it's not like saying a muslim shouldn't be a linesman that would be bigotted, but with regard to women there may well be a logical rationale. I would need to hear the reasoning before making a hard and fast judgement.
So would I!
Because I can't think of one single reason why a fully qualified female referee should not be able to officiate at a Premier League game.
Can you?
I'd need to hear the arguments of those who are opposed to this new development. I'm relatively open minded on this one.
Should women be able to coach, manage , play ? Is it only bigots who would oppose these things happening?
I certainly don't think they should commentate.
Why?
Voices are too high pitched, so when a goal is scored they sound like silly squealing ten year old boys, and I don't want to listen to that.
Your username suggests that you're something of a shortarse.
I never realised I was a bigot, but it seems that I'm thoroughly against reading the opinions of short, bitter (though admittedly probably very trim at 11st2". I don't want to listen to you but we could always go to the pictures? I'm a good kisser.) Northreners.
I get your point although why bitter? Certainly not bigotted though as I'm totally tolerant of views favouring women commentators it's just a point of view.
As for the user name, that in hindsight was a mistake it looks stupid and is often misinterpreted. They ain't my stats they belong to Brian Little - Rothmans 74/75 season.
Fair enough, "bitter" duly withdrawn. Apologies.
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Good riddance to the bald fat rodent! Least he'll have more time to devote to the phone hacking court case!
Happy Burns Night Andy! :D
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Oh Andy
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Good riddance to the bald fat rodent! Least he'll have more time to devote to the phone hacking court case!
Happy Burns Night Andy! :D
Oy! Enough!
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So Andy Gray files legal proceedings against Murdoch-owned newspaper and three weeks later is sacked from job at Murdoch-owned Sky television? Interesting.
(By the way I'm not making light or condoning the comments).
Gordon Brown goes for mic-tapping by Sky News, Vince Cable is tapped by two undercover journalists.
Co-incidence?
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Why has Keys got away with it by the way?
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So Andy Gray files legal proceedings against Murdoch-owned newspaper and three weeks later is sacked from job at Murdoch-owned Sky television? Interesting.
(By the way I'm not making light or condoning the comments).
Gordon Brown goes for mic-tapping by Sky News, Vince Cable is tapped by two undercover journalists.
Anyone still approve of the NewsCorp/Sky takeover?
The Tories?
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Why has Keys got away with it by the way?
Keys and Gray (and another) were disciplined over the comments. Gray was then sacked after the unveiling of the second vid when he asked Charlotte Jackson to put her hand down his trousers.
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Gordon Brown goes for mic-tapping by Sky News, Vince Cable is tapped by two undercover journalists.
Co-incidence?
Well all the media outlets had the Brown comments as it was shared service. And it was the Telegraph who did Vince Cable who I believe are not a part of Sky/Newscorp.
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Good riddance to the bald fat rodent! Least he'll have more time to devote to the phone hacking court case!
Happy Burns Night Andy! :D
Oy! Enough!
I'd like to apologise to the rodent community of Amsterdam for any offence caused - I wll resign from Sky Sports forthwith!
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If it's not been said before over the last 26 pages -
He's fat
He's round
Watches football in his lounge
Andy Gray! Andy Gray...
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He might not be well liked on here, but lets not forget for 1 season he was the best Villa striker i have seen, and for that reason alone i find it hard to understand the venom thrown at him on a Villa supporters board.
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I'm still not sure that anyone who has *actually listened* to the remarks between Gray and Keys could describe them as `banter'.
There was nothing jokey or lighthearted about anything they said.
you need to get out more
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I'm still not sure that anyone who has *actually listened* to the remarks between Gray and Keys could describe them as `banter'.
There was nothing jokey or lighthearted about anything they said.
you need to get out more
That's what I said lol.
Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
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I'm still not sure that anyone who has *actually listened* to the remarks between Gray and Keys could describe them as `banter'.
There was nothing jokey or lighthearted about anything they said.
you need to get out more
He's in court at the moment and I love his posts.
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He might not be well liked on here, but lets not forget for 1 season he was the best Villa striker i have seen, and for that reason alone i find it hard to understand the venom thrown at him on a Villa supporters board.
His past doesn't excuse his current behaviour.
Initially I didn't think it would go this far. Then I heard the recording, and imo, Keys is worse on the recording than Andy Gray. The tone of Richard Keys voice when saying 'the charming Karren' was unbelievably patronising.
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I think sacking Gray was a step too far.
I also find Sky's sudden commitment to equality at odds with much of their output.
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Keys will be next after this :
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Thier own little fantasy world's what?
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In isolation a warning might have sufficed.
But the same kind of behaviour three times in a few weeks would push most employers to act.
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Someones friendly banter, is another persons offending comment though Lizz.We have to be careful of not being offended by everything.
I can't believe any woman would be offended by the comment , come and tuck this in for me, if we are at that stage then god help us.
Karren Brady........can't say i disagree with Keys tbh.A self-promoting, self-indulgent, arrogant gobshite.I know people who have worked for her......not the brightest, and not the most pleasant.
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Keys will be next after this :
Ha ha ha, that's him gone, got to be.
"Gone round there any night and found Redknapp 'hanging out the back of it'"
See you, you hairy handed cock-end
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I can't believe any woman would be offended by the comment , come and tuck this in for me, if we are at that stage then god help us.
If you can't believe how any woman could be offended by that, then I'm afraid you're part of the problem. Either that, or you're living in 1972.
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Here's a picture of Charlotte definitely not encouraging any more lewd remarks and obviously also living in 1972:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_x1w9f3kXWq8/TM7nGpE8uJI/AAAAAAAAByw/KGr1XdoGaew/s1600/charlotte+jackson.jpg)
There's plenty more innocent shots like this if you do a google image search
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Someones friendly banter, is another persons offending comment though Lizz.We have to be careful of not being offended by everything.
I can't believe any woman would be offended by the comment , come and tuck this in for me, if we are at that stage then god help us.
Karren Brady........can't say i disagree with Keys tbh.A self-promoting, self-indulgent, arrogant gobshite.I know people who have worked for her......not the brightest, and not the most pleasant.
Did she look like she enjoyed being talked to like that.
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I'M part of the problem paulie.......ok.
I don't look to be offended by every comment, and i don't look to offend by every comment, i make light hearted comments to people.
I think the path you are quite willing to go down means that you will be constantly curbing , and analysing our own comments, and other peoples comments, looking for meanings that are;nt there.
Do i like to flirt.....yes, whats the problem with that?
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Someones friendly banter, is another persons offending comment though Lizz.We have to be careful of not being offended by everything.
I can't believe any woman would be offended by the comment , come and tuck this in for me, if we are at that stage then god help us.
Karren Brady........can't say i disagree with Keys tbh.A self-promoting, self-indulgent, arrogant gobshite.I know people who have worked for her......not the brightest, and not the most pleasant.
Newsflash - just because you don't find a remark offensive, doesn't mean other people don't find the same remark offensive.
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No, the path I think we should be going down is the one where "you can tuck me in if you want to" is not acceptable chat in the work place.
What meaning is it that I'm seeing in that that isn't really there?
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I'M part of the problem paulie.......ok.
I don't look to be offended by every comment, and i don't look to offend by every comment, i make light hearted comments to people.
I think the path you are quite willing to go down means that you will be constantly curbing , and analysing our own comments, and other peoples comments, looking for meanings that are;nt there.
Do i like to flirt.....yes, whats the problem with that?
If the recipients of your flirting look as happy about it as the woman in the clip with Gray, then I'd say quite a lot, really.
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Am I the only one who finds the sight of Keys putting his feet on the desk all the time really annoying? Saw him do that in the box at VP once, the disrespectful little scamp.
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I like Andy Gray however I don't watch any games on Skysport because Andy is the pundit. I like him because he brought lot of pleasure to my life watching the Villa that 1 season when he scored and he scored!
I think he has over stepped the mark and Sky are correct to take the action they did. Not worried about Andy he is a wealthy man and ESPN beckons.
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I have to say that's a bit harsh in my view. Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
Same here.
You employ a host of blonde lovelies?
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The only time i think that comments like that are unacceptable, are if they are on a regular basis, and a bit sinister, and threatening.
Now there is no evidence of that , so we have to give him the benefit of doubt.
Can every man on here honestly tell me he has never made a suggestive comment
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That will teach Gray to sue the News of the World.
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The only time i think that comments like that are unacceptable, are if they are on a regular basis, and a bit sinister, and threatening.
Now there is no evidence of that , so we have to give him the benefit of doubt.
Can every man on here honestly tell me he has never made a suggestive comment
Why do we have to give him the benefit of the doubt? It looked both slightly threatening and sinister to me.
I've never made a suggestive comment in the work place like that, no.
Have you?
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I have to say that's a bit harsh in my view. Obviously Sky employ the host of blonde lovelies on Sky Sports News for their considerable knowledge of the sporting world.
There's a difference between employing attractive women to front your news coverage and having your employees make lewd comments to them like that, though.
Unless them being attractive means it is fair game.
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The only time i think that comments like that are unacceptable, are if they are on a regular basis, and a bit sinister, and threatening.
Now there is no evidence of that , so we have to give him the benefit of doubt.
Can every man on here honestly tell me he has never made a suggestive comment
Why do we have to give him the benefit of the doubt? It looked both slightly threatening and sinister to me.
I've never made a suggestive comment in the work place like that, no.
Have you?
Me neither. Be in the now or in the stone-age, your choice.
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Am I the only one who finds the sight of Keys putting his feet on the desk all the time really annoying? Saw him do that in the box at VP once, the disrespectful little scamp.
You're not alone. It's one of my pet hates.
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Unless them being attractive means it is fair game.
Not unless proposition 304 passes. And we all pray it will.
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Can i come to your office parties?..........sound really fun.
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Can i come to your office parties?..........sound really fun.
Yup, it's hard to have fun without sexually intimidating someone in front of your mates.
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Can i come to your office parties?..........sound really fun.
Yup, it's hard to have fun without sexually intimidating someone in front of your mates.
Can't you take a joke, stop being such a killjoy and show us your cock.
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No, the path I think we should be going down is the one where "you can tuck me in if you want to" is not acceptable chat in the work place.
What meaning is it that I'm seeing in that that isn't really there?
I'd agree with that. And not that this should really change anything, but I suppose you could say that in most work places you wouldn't find a woman with smutty images of herself on google.
What's come out in the last couple of days has mainly just reinforced what's already known about Gray. What I find curious is that Sky has suddenly decided that it cares about it.
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Mirror website has new link to a video of keys making lewd comments about women - looks as though he will get the sack tomorrow as well!
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I'd agree with that. And not that this should really change anything, but I suppose you could say that in most work places you wouldn't find a woman with smutty images of herself on google.
What's come out in the last couple of days has mainly just reinforced what's already known about Gray. What I find curious is that Sky has suddenly decided that it cares about it.
Like many a big corporation, it has to be seen to be doing the right thing, rather than having any real wish to do the right thing.
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Don't know if its been covered, but I think the pitchside reporter (Andy Burton?) being suspended for saying (paraphrasing) "Steve the cameraman says the female lino is a bit of a looker" is a bit over the top.
Anyone else agree?
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Don't know if its been covered, but I think the pitchside reporter (Andy Burton?) being suspended for saying (paraphrasing) "Steve the cameraman says the female lino is a bit of a looker" is a bit over the top.
Anyone else agree?
I'd agree with that.
Although I'll retract my agreement if it means we don't have to see the oily tit with his gaggle of mobile phones on the desk acting like he's the most connected man on earth on transfer deadline day.
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Don't know if its been covered, but I think the pitchside reporter (Andy Burton?) being suspended for saying (paraphrasing) "Steve the cameraman says the female lino is a bit of a looker" is a bit over the top.
Anyone else agree?
I was slightly confused by that as well.
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The new video leaked of keys tonight making lewd comments looks like it's the end of him too- I'd like to see George gavin as the anchor man- those were the days!
Keys new video link of his lewd comments is on mirror website- can't paste it as I'm on iPod.
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You wont be able to see it, either, as the Mirror twats have just linked to the youtube video, which has now been deleted.
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Don't know if its been covered, but I think the pitchside reporter (Andy Burton?) being suspended for saying (paraphrasing) "Steve the cameraman says the female lino is a bit of a looker" is a bit over the top.
Anyone else agree?
I was slightly confused by that as well.
Yep, it doesn't really help the situation when so many struggle to see the difference in context (particularly on here). At no point (unless he has form) has Burton called into question the presence of female officials in the game or directed an off colour comment directly at a colleague. It muddies the water and will make everyone paranoid.
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Surely though after the keys video was leaked tonight he must go too- can't really sack one and not the other- in the lineswoman incident keys comments were worse than grays- neither will be missed.
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The new video leaked of keys tonight making lewd comments looks like it's the end of him too- I'd like to see George gavin as the anchor man- those were the days!
Keys new video link of his lewd comments is on mirror website- can't paste it as I'm on iPod.
Bring back Hugh Johns I say. 'One-nil. Brian Little'. You need to say that in his voice mind you...
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The new video leaked of keys tonight making lewd comments looks like it's the end of him too- I'd like to see George gavin as the anchor man- those were the days!
Keys new video link of his lewd comments is on mirror website- can't paste it as I'm on iPod.
Bring back Hugh Johns I say. 'One-nil. Brian Little'. You need to say that in his voice mind you...
I also thought Barry Davies was fantastic, the last of the old school commentators who didn't think you had to scream or shout to do your job.
He sounded like an English teacher. Jonathan Pearce sounds like a cab driver.
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It's back!
"Would you smash it?"
Christ, what a try hard prick.
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Hawkeye is a tedious fucking moron who lives with his nan.
Hey, you're right! This banter stuff is awesome!
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
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Mirror website has new link to a video of keys making lewd comments about women - looks as though he will get the sack tomorrow as well!
Please tell me he is in the company of Colin Murray who is also making inappropiate remarks?
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Colin Murray was slapping a child in a wheelchair and Alan Green was abusing deaf people in sign language
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Colin Murray was slapping a child in a wheelchair and Alan Green was abusing deaf people in sign language
Who said that? Glen Hoddle, and he still works for Sky.
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Surely though after the keys video was leaked tonight he must go too- can't really sack one and not the other- in the lineswoman incident keys comments were worse than grays- neither will be missed.
Conspiracy theorists might argue that this whole exercise was engineered/leaked specifically to get rid of Andy Gray because he's suing the NOTW over the phone hacking issue. He just provided the rope for them to hang him with. Hopefully the new leak will seal Keys' fate too. Obnoxious pair as bad as each other
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Cant really hear whats being said, but has Jamie Redknapp been dropped in it there? Keys is a twat.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
(http://imgur.com/T6AAC.jpg)
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Colin Murray was slapping a child in a wheelchair and Alan Green was abusing deaf people in sign language
That will do. Don't suppose Robbie Savage was wanking off a dog and laughing at the actions of the other two at the same time? Or would that be too much to ask?
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Outrageous.
One of the few benefits of being deaf would be not having to suffer Alan Green's inane, disinterested ramblings. And he robs the poor buggers even of that.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
(http://imgur.com/T6AAC.jpg)
Is that pic one of those running joke things the younger generation usually post on the internet? Like those cats with LOZ written on them, or something with EPIC FAIL underneath it?
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
Still not a clue i'm afraid.
Son? Think i'm probably old enough to be your Dad. i'm not.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
(http://imgur.com/T6AAC.jpg)
Is that pic one of those running joke things the younger generation usually post on the internet? Like those cats with LOZ written on them, or something with EPIC FAIL underneath it?
wElCoMe 2 da internetz my fwend. u knowz wut meme's meanz?
Nah, this isn't LOLCATZ or some other internet meme, it's just a picture of Michael Vick pointing at you with a text of "U MAD?" in white underneath implying "Are you mad?". You could do it with a picture of Darren Bent and post it on a Sunderland forum lulz.
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On Saturday I learned how to say 'fuck off you miserable c***' in sign language. You have to be careful though. In British Sign Language 'c***' is very similar to 'samosa'
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LOL! RATFL WAITING 4 THE AA @ RAF HQ. SWALK.
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People keep trying to teach me sign language when I drive.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
(http://imgur.com/T6AAC.jpg)
Is that pic one of those running joke things the younger generation usually post on the internet? Like those cats with LOZ written on them, or something with EPIC FAIL underneath it?
wElCoMe 2 da internetz my fwend. u knowz wut meme's meanz?
Nah, this isn't LOLCATZ or some other internet meme, it's just a picture of Michael Vick pointing at you with a text of "U MAD?" in white underneath implying "Are you mad?". You could do it with a picture of Darren Bent and post it on a Sunderland forum lulz.
Yeah, that'd be amazing. Err. dude.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
Still not a clue i'm afraid.
Son? Think i'm probably old enough to be your Dad. i'm not.
Still not a clue? Nah, I actually have a great life and I'm still young and cool. 9/10's 'mirin me all day every day.
What I was implying I take my real life views onto the internet. Don't try and join any cliques or anything like that, just be myself. Some posters on here seem to be very out of touch with reality and it's quite obvious some don't get out much hence you get oddballs calling people bigots when they have a different opinion to you. Those people are blatantly socially awkward hence not getting out much.
Ask most men (in real life btw, not on the internet where anyone can be who they like) about woman's football and you'll just laughs and piss-taking with the usual "The only woman's sport I watch is woman's beach volleyball". Say that on here and you'll get shot down and ironically be called a bigot by the people who obviously don't get out much.
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Wow. You must have an enormous penis.
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Don't try and join any cliques or anything like that, just be myself.
It's like 50 Cent in that shit film.
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That link paulie posted with ''Keyesy'' trying to be ''down with Redknapp junior...christ, cringeworthy or what? And quite sad really. Anytime clips of off-air comments surface of Keyes, even innocent ones, he comes across as a nasty character, invariably trying to impress the famous ex-footballers beside him.
As for Gray, the incident with Charlotte Jackson is something she's probably had to deal with hundreds of times before. Part of the territory in such a male-dominated environment I imagine. She never strikes me as a particularly good reporter. Can it be a coincidence that so many ''hotties'' get presenting jobs on SSN? No, it doesn't make it right but I'd be surprised if she reported it. She seems non-plussed when Gray and Keys are laughing. If she did report it later, fair do's.
That and the lineswoman comment are certainly enough to sack Gray. If it's true that he's not liked at Sky Sports I imagine footage of the remark at Jackson was handed to the powers that be by one of the camera/sound men who are sick of the lecherous, sexist eejit.
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Is that pic one of those running joke things the younger generation usually post on the internet? Like those cats with LOZ written on them, or something with EPIC FAIL underneath it?
Its called a 'meme', grandad *sigh*
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I think I'm in love with Natalie Pirks, now at ITV, after watching this. It's not her looks - her teeth are far too straight, but the lovely way she handles the attention of this Villa chancer - he's not ''The Situation'' by any chance is he?
Damon, is she as nice as this in real life?
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She has set a precedent. If all linespeople were female then who would dare question their decisions, in future, for fear of being accused of sexism or worse get the sack for it. They'll have to bring in famale refs to balance things up. Then the Pundits in order to be fair to the refs. What next?...truly the age of aquarius is upon us.
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She has set a precedent. If all linespeople were female then who would dare question their decisions, in future, for fear of being accused of sexism or worse get the sack for it. They'll have to bring in famale refs to balance things up. Then the Pundits in order to be fair to the refs. What next?...truly the age of aquarius is upon us.
Might the concept of not abusing officials, regardless of their gender, be an option worth considering?
And there's also a difference between questioning someone's decision, and suggesting she's got lost on the way to the supermarket, or doesn't know her job.
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Some posters on here seem to be very out of touch with reality and it's quite obvious some don't get out much hence you get oddballs calling people bigots when they have a different opinion to you.
Ask most men (in real life btw, not on the internet where anyone can be who they like) about woman's football and you'll just laughs and piss-taking with the usual "The only woman's sport I watch is woman's beach volleyball". Say that on here and you'll get shot down and ironically be called a bigot by the people who obviously don't get out much.
You ever worked with women? I mean actual women, not girls barely out of school. I've got a feeling they'd have you cowed within half an hour if you were 'just being yourself' with them in the workplace.
And if the people you knock about with actually talk like that about women's sport then, well, get some new mates because they sound like twats. Or Rugby players.
If looking at a womens tits and arses is all what your mates think about when it comes to female sport then I think you and them are the ones who need to get in the real world.
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She has set a precedent. If all linespeople were female then who would dare question their decisions, in future, for fear of being accused of sexism or worse get the sack for it. They'll have to bring in famale refs to balance things up. Then the Pundits in order to be fair to the refs. What next?...truly the age of aquarius is upon us.
Might the concept of not abusing officials, regardless of their gender, be an option worth considering?
And there's also a difference between questioning someone's decision, and suggesting she's got lost on the way to the supermarket, or doesn't know her job.
It was an attempt at irony..the end result is accusations of witchery otherwise..
A decision is a decision.. roll on VT and 2.5 hour games.
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Kelly Dalglish: "Phew, I'm exhausted. Just been reading about something called the offside rule."
Dour King Kenny's offspring having a sense of humour? whodafunk it.
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I quite liked one of her follow-up tweets:
This is not the week to say that I am torn between end of Arsenal v Ipswich and a 14 stone Gypsy Wedding dress that LIGHTS UP! *finds ch4+1*
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oh Andy, oh Andy, you're a sexist the Holte End say
oh Andy, oh Andy, got a bit stuck at this point but thought I'd done a good job of the first line
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oh Andy, oh Andy, you're a sexist the Holte End say
oh Andy, oh Andy, got a bit stuck at this point but thought I'd done a good job of the first line
Oh Andy, Oh Andy, you should be carefull, what you say.
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Is that pic one of those running joke things the younger generation usually post on the internet? Like those cats with LOZ written on them, or something with EPIC FAIL underneath it?
Its called a 'meme', grandad *sigh*
And's nothing new for those of us who remember the Baker & Kelly "TURMOIL" craze
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
Still not a clue i'm afraid.
Son? Think i'm probably old enough to be your Dad. i'm not.
Still not a clue? Nah, I actually have a great life and I'm still young and cool. 9/10's 'mirin me all day every day.
What I was implying I take my real life views onto the internet. Don't try and join any cliques or anything like that, just be myself. Some posters on here seem to be very out of touch with reality and it's quite obvious some don't get out much hence you get oddballs calling people bigots when they have a different opinion to you. Those people are blatantly socially awkward hence not getting out much.
Ask most men (in real life btw, not on the internet where anyone can be who they like) about woman's football and you'll just laughs and piss-taking with the usual "The only woman's sport I watch is woman's beach volleyball". Say that on here and you'll get shot down and ironically be called a bigot by the people who obviously don't get out much.
You're the bloke who defends Mel Gibson aren't you? And has hissy fits about Ricky Gervais.
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She has set a precedent. If all linespeople were female then who would dare question their decisions, in future, for fear of being accused of sexism or worse get the sack for it. They'll have to bring in famale refs to balance things up. Then the Pundits in order to be fair to the refs. What next?...truly the age of aquarius is upon us.
Questioning any decisions is fine with any official, questioning her ability to run the line before the game because she is female is wrong.
I've been reffed by a woman ref in the Worcester league and she was no more incompetent than her male colleagues, her dad was also a ref and a lot more biased, luckily for my team cos he always gave us lots of decisions.
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Judging by the reaction in 'the real world' I can tell who's out of touch and who isn't.
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Keys has to go to, surely ?
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Keys has to go to, surely ?
hopefully you mean..
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ha ha, yes couldn't happen to a nicer person
I think his "did you smash it" comments are just as bad as Andy Gray's ??
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A couple of questions for some of the people on here.
If you had a daughter, who is attractive, and in her mid-twenties, and saw a middle-aged man sticks his hand down his trousers and say "Are you going to help me tuck this in?". Let's say it is your friend, in the pub or one of her colleague's at work. Is this flirting, or just having a laugh?
If you overheard a couple of men that you did not know saying, your wife, daughter, girlfriend should not be doing their job because they are female, and doing so with no humour or irony. Is this banter?
If the answer to either is "Yes", then you are part of the problem.
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Would love to see smug hairy handed keys get the bullet today- he is so biased in his views.
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Did everyone hate these pair before all this ?
I always looked forward to Andy Gray's match stats / analysis etc., way better than BBC MOTD etc.
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Would love to see smug hairy handed keys get the bullet today
he'll be disappointed with that
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Kelly Dalglish: "Phew, I'm exhausted. Just been reading about something called the offside rule."
Dour King Kenny's offspring having a sense of humour? whodafunk it.
Kenny's line to the Sky Sports reported was quality as well. Linky (http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/100197)
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On BBC Breakfast this morning the comment was made along the lines of "well he is from that generation who it shouldnt be surprising holds such attitudes".
Well Im sorry I am a similar age to Andy Gray, and I thought I was part of a generation where I would hope myself and generally most of my male friends of the same age are at least a little more enlightened.
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Did everyone hate these pair before all this ?
I always looked forward to Andy Gray's match stats / analysis etc., way better than BBC MOTD etc.
Never really on my radar, as I only see Sky in the pub, so can't hear what they are saying. Same as commentators, I can happily watch a stream with the volume down.
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To be honest Id rather watch hansen and shearer than gray and keys anyday- never rated keys on breakfast tv and his hatred ov villa is thinly disguised on sky- still there are always the pg tips adverts to fall back on.
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Did everyone hate these pair before all this ?
I always looked forward to Andy Gray's match stats / analysis etc., way better than BBC MOTD etc.
Both are terrible, lowest common denominator analysis really. They treat the public like idiots. Also, recently I've been amazed at the amount of times that Gray has called up refereeing decisions incorrectly. He genuinely doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the laws of the game.
I've got ESPN in the apartment, and have to say that I find the analysis and general presentation infinitely better than the 2. Still miles behind the entertainment value of RTE, but still a vast improvement.
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A couple of questions for some of the people on here.
If you had a daughter, who is attractive, and in her mid-twenties, and saw a middle-aged man sticks his hand down his trousers and say "Are you going to help me tuck this in?". Let's say it is your friend, in the pub or one of her colleague's at work. Is this flirting, or just having a laugh?
This is not really analagous. The Sky girl has made a substantial amount of money objectifying herself by posing "provocatively" in lads mags.
If that was my daughter that would actually disappoint me more than the almost inevitable reaction from some men.
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Did everyone hate these pair before all this ?
I always looked forward to Andy Gray's match stats / analysis etc., way better than BBC MOTD etc.
I enjoyed his work but then I also liked listening to Ron Atkinson, I can't stand hairy hands though.
In the era of Sky+ I rarely hear any of the analyst talking any more, watch the match, manager's interview and that's all I need.
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A couple of questions for some of the people on here.
If you had a daughter, who is attractive, and in her mid-twenties, and saw a middle-aged man sticks his hand down his trousers and say "Are you going to help me tuck this in?". Let's say it is your friend, in the pub or one of her colleague's at work. Is this flirting, or just having a laugh?
If you overheard a couple of men that you did not know saying, your wife, daughter, girlfriend should not be doing their job because they are female, and doing so with no humour or irony. Is this banter?
If the answer to either is "Yes", then you are part of the problem.
And if the woman in question wasn't related to you how? I reckon we'd be less sanctimonious then. Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
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Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
But there is a difference between taking the piss, and being a creepy lech. Women in my workplace seem to know the difference.
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I don't think we are though, in the tone that Gray and Keys quite clearly were. If it had been jovial banter then he would have got away with a bit of a storm, but the pair of them sound vindictive and dismissive of Sian Massey as if she is some kind of new initiative that there is no place for. And she got the biggest call right, which Gray was clearly on commentary desperate to have been wrong.
As for the pair of them, I have never warmed to Keys, and any man that takes steps to have his hairy hands lasered due to worries about how they will look in HD is a bit of a pillock, we tune in to watch football, not you Richard. Gray has always been quite harsh on Villa in my eyes when commentating, and his complete love in for the top 3-4 clubs plus Liverpool is often gut wrenching, so not sad to see either go. Just don't replace him with big Sam, he was useless the other night doing the Bolton Chelsea game.
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Just don't replace him with big Sam, he was useless the other night doing the Bolton Chelsea game.
It'll be John Barnes then. (chortle)
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Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
Is that why you finished up in court?
But there is a difference between taking the piss, and being a creepy lech. Women in my workplace seem to know the difference.
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A couple of questions for some of the people on here.
If you had a daughter, who is attractive, and in her mid-twenties, and saw a middle-aged man sticks his hand down his trousers and say "Are you going to help me tuck this in?". Let's say it is your friend, in the pub or one of her colleague's at work. Is this flirting, or just having a laugh?
If you overheard a couple of men that you did not know saying, your wife, daughter, girlfriend should not be doing their job because they are female, and doing so with no humour or irony. Is this banter?
If the answer to either is "Yes", then you are part of the problem.
And if the woman in question wasn't related to you how? I reckon we'd be less sanctimonious then. Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
Some men only understand sexism if it's done in relation to er...relations.
And I agree about the degrees of involvement.
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Just don't replace him with big Sam, he was useless the other night doing the Bolton Chelsea game.
It'll be John Barnes then. (chortle)
Or Claridge ha ha
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Sian Massey at work:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/General/image001.jpg)
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Where is the line drawn though.
I've worked at places where games like "shag, marry or throw of a cliff" have been played on nights out by males and females, places where the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women. Taken to it's further degrees all the people involved should be sacked. None of the above is right, but in the same sense saying someone is a looker surely isn't a sackable offence?
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Where is the line drawn though.
I've worked at places where games like "shag, marry or throw of a cliff" have been played on nights out by males and females, places where the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women. Taken to it's further degrees all the people involved should be sacked. None of the above is right, but in the same sense saying someone is a looker surely isn't a sackable offence?
As far as I can tell, nobody on this thread has said that calling someone a looker is a sackable offence.
That was the Andy Burton thing. I don't want him sacked because of that, that'd be way over the top. I would, however, like him sacked for being a horrible, oily git.
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Gray should never work again.
He should be replaced by Stan Collymore immediately.
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Gray should never work again.
He should be replaced by Stan Collymore immediately.
But he's been suspended and is likely to go, or have a severe reprimand.
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This Keys/Gray situation reminds me of when Big Fat Ron spoke unpleasantly about Marcel Desailly. Wasnt BFR sacked ?
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Collymore's definitely harder hitting than Gray.
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Collymore's definitely harder hitting than Gray.
He is, and a very good option I think.........
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This Keys/Gray situation reminds me of when Big Fat Ron spoke unpleasantly about Marcel Desailly. Wasnt BFR sacked ?
Cast into outer darkness, and has never been back.
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Gray should never work again.
He should be replaced by Stan Collymore immediately.
...er no.
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Gray should never work again.
He should be replaced by Stan Collymore immediately.
Yeah, there's a bloke who knows how to treat women.
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Too many people living in their own little fantasy world's.
Don't leave us hanging on, fantasy world's what?
I'm living in the real world, son.
"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not"
Still not a clue i'm afraid.
Son? Think i'm probably old enough to be your Dad. i'm not.
Still not a clue? Nah, I actually have a great life and I'm still young and cool. 9/10's 'mirin me all day every day.
What I was implying I take my real life views onto the internet. Don't try and join any cliques or anything like that, just be myself. Some posters on here seem to be very out of touch with reality and it's quite obvious some don't get out much hence you get oddballs calling people bigots when they have a different opinion to you. Those people are blatantly socially awkward hence not getting out much.
Ask most men (in real life btw, not on the internet where anyone can be who they like) about woman's football and you'll just laughs and piss-taking with the usual "The only woman's sport I watch is woman's beach volleyball". Say that on here and you'll get shot down and ironically be called a bigot by the people who obviously don't get out much.
You're the bloke who defends Mel Gibson aren't you? And has hissy fits about Ricky Gervais.
Sorry about the quotathon, i'm usually a quotathonist in whichever fantasy world it is I seem to live in but thanks Rodent for pointing that out. No wonder I haven't a clue what he/she is banging on about.
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It won't be collymore- they will promote stelling or shepherd and use souness and redknapp more.
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More hypocritical media companies... Collymore's, very public, girlfriend beating past hasn't stopped his media career developing quite nicely.
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Yeah, Jamie Redknapp. Isn't he the one who goes on all those posh holidays but forgets to take his kids?
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Yeah, Jamie Redknapp. Isn't he the one who goes on all those posh holidays but forgets to take his kids?
Glad I'm not the only one who gets wound up by that.
maybe Harry and Sarndra baby sit
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Yeah, Jamie Redknapp. Isn't he the one who goes on all those posh holidays but forgets to take his kids?
Glad I'm not the only one who gets wound up by that.
maybe Harry and Sarndra baby sit
They used to leave them with the Mccann family but think there was a falling out about their childcare methods.
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Jamie and Louise on a package holiday.
Chortle.
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It's important that they get to chill out on holiday. Its a tough life when... what is it they do?
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Its a tough life when... what is it they do?
Get paid to disown their kids and jet off to paradise
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Pretty grim by the sound of it.
'There's been a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky for a long time'
Three women who held prominent positions at Sky Sports describe a 'lads' club' and a 'climate of fear'
The only surprise about the events leading to Andy Gray's sacking as the most famous voice in football yesterday was that he had not made a similar gaffe in public before. That is the view of three women who have all held frontline roles at Sky Sports.
Fearing repercussions that could harm their careers if they were identified, the three spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity. But despite talking separately, their views echoed each other's; each describing the bullying and sexist culture they feel Gray and his co-presenter, Richard Keys, have fostered.
One former Sky journalist said: "It came as absolutely no surprise to me to see this. The surprise is that we haven't seen more. It's the kind of language and vocabulary that is used within the Sky football department all the time."
Another, who still works for Sky, said: "There are many stories of their shocking behaviour. [Gray and Keys] are hated by the crews. It's a climate of fear pervading. But as long as everyone is laughing and it's a joke it's all right isn't it? I believe sexism is systemic and not openly challenged but goes underground or disguised as jokes or 'just banter'."
The third separately cited how "just banter" is claimed as a defence, and explained why that claim holds no water. "Live football is well known as something everyone wants to work on. But no one wants to work with those two. They took the piss out of a runner for having no money. It's nasty bullying with an edge. It's not just banter."
All three women agree that Barney Francis, who has been managing director of Sky Sports since his appointment 18 months ago, has improved matters. His decision yesterday summarily to dismiss Gray shows that he will scarcely indulge a chauvinistic culture any longer. One said: "There has been a culture of bullying and sexism around Sky for a very long time, but recently Sky have been managing the bullying a lot better through changes in management. There were rumours of people being told off and that bullying behaviour was unacceptable."
Yet despite the positive steps made by Francis, the women all expressed a feeling that there must be more widespread surgery to eradicate what they described as a patriarchy that limits women's promotion prospects. "There's this blokey vibe and it's like a lads' club," said one. "At the BBC the head of sport is Barbara Slater. Sky are a long way from that situation.
"During my time at Sky Sports News it wasn't hidden that women were appointed to present on it primarily because of the way they looked. You can see how Andy and Richard are behaving like that because the people at the top have employed people without any experience. Clearly that's sexist and it means at Sky you are always looked down on as a woman involved in sport, full stop."
That view chimed with another's view. She said: "You'd get bosses saying, 'It's just fruit on the barrow.' I found it a very sexist working environment. The production staff found it incredibly frustrating: they're younger for a start than the management.
"But it permeated through the whole culture. When Sky Sports News first started the girls were in suits. Sky was still about the image but they wanted women who were interested in sport. "Any monkey can read an autocue and you can't build passion for what you do from nothing. But if you're a woman you were there as decoration. Anything else was a bonus. It's not that there is a criterion about how the girls look. It's that it is the main criterion."
Sky told the Guardian that it hires its presenters principally for their abilities as journalists and presenters. Nonetheless, one of the former Sky journalists pointed out that the fact that Gray and Keys's unreconstructed comments were leaked into the public domain reflects the glee that Sky employees would feel at their downfall.
"I think deep down Richard and Andy are just bullies," she said. "They bully new men in the game as well. It's how they operate. They don't have many friends there but after 20 years they've always been at the top of the game and earning a ridiculous amount of money, so I guess who's laughing?
"But they have ruled the roost for a long time and upset people for a long time. They got into bother with someone who had a schadenfreude motive. I am just surprised that you have a broadcaster with experience of 20 years talking like that in front of a mic and not expecting it to get out. It was not the first time they were caught saying things they shouldn't say. They think they can get away with murder. How arrogant."
A Sky spokesman said last night: "There was evidence at the weekend and we took action. Today there has been new evidence and we have taken entirely appropriate action. If people are saying there is a culture of sexism here that shows we don't tolerate it."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist
That, as Andy Gray will no longer be able to say, should be the Last Word.
I can't see Keys coming back any time soon or at least not in that capacity.
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Hypocritical to sack Gray and keep Keyes.
I'd guess their only way forward would be to dramatically change the format of the show, rather than just replace Gray, who despite the general dislike made the show what it is
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Whether Andy Gray is on/off tv is of very little significance to me. Clearly someone(s) had it in for him at Sky and has shafted him.
But the whole sexism debate is riddled with so much hypocrisy and double-standards, I'm not even sure where I stand on it.
Firstly, I have worked in environments where the attitude of some men including the bosses and management was unbelievably sexist and chauvinistic. Some of the things said to girls we worked with were shocking. Andy's comment to Charlotte Jackson wouldnt have fluttered an eyelid. But that was a pub, so maybe it's not a particularly "professional" environment. I work in an office now and certainly none of that would go on (publicly).
That brings me to my next point. There isnt a workplace around where sexist jokes/banter etc exists. Some may have sympathy for Gray simply because he got caught. However, I think the fact that he so openly made those remarks where he knew there were cameras around gives an insight of the sexist environment that exists in Sky.
Then there is the point of whether by working for Sky purely because your a hot bird you are implicitly accepting the role as subject to male chauvinism. Surley, there are a lot of extremely adept women presenters who have great knowledge about sport that arent as attractive as Charloote Jackson and Georgie Thomson et al. Yet they never seem to be employed by Sky.
I also find it amusing that Sky boradcast Soccer Am, which has had the Soccerette as a regular on feature on its show for years. Surely that is the definition of sexism and objectifying women.
At the end of the day, Sky are going to make a PR show about sacking Gray and we'll see about Keys and Burton. Nothing will change though. Football is a male dominated industry, it's marketed to men, plas on our needs on desires and closely linked to this is the fact that we like looking at attractive women and yes making the odd joke about it. It doesnt make it right and isnt fair on the likes Sian Massey who is trying to make a career out of being a referee, but that is the world we live in.
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"Live football is well known as something everyone wants to work on. But no one wants to work with those two. They took the piss out of a runner for having no money. It's nasty bullying with an edge. It's not just banter."
Andy Gray was my childhood hero.
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Gray, who despite the general dislike made the show what it is
Yes he did, but he's been there a long time now, like Keys. If they've any sense Sky will use this as an opportunity to freshen up the whole thing.
Stelling would be brilliant.
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Pretty grim by the sound of it.
'There's been a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky for a long time'
Three women who held prominent positions at Sky Sports describe a 'lads' club' and a 'climate of fear'
The only surprise about the events leading to Andy Gray's sacking as the most famous voice in football yesterday was that he had not made a similar gaffe in public before. That is the view of three women who have all held frontline roles at Sky Sports.
Fearing repercussions that could harm their careers if they were identified, the three spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity. But despite talking separately, their views echoed each other's; each describing the bullying and sexist culture they feel Gray and his co-presenter, Richard Keys, have fostered.
One former Sky journalist said: "It came as absolutely no surprise to me to see this. The surprise is that we haven't seen more. It's the kind of language and vocabulary that is used within the Sky football department all the time."
Another, who still works for Sky, said: "There are many stories of their shocking behaviour. [Gray and Keys] are hated by the crews. It's a climate of fear pervading. But as long as everyone is laughing and it's a joke it's all right isn't it? I believe sexism is systemic and not openly challenged but goes underground or disguised as jokes or 'just banter'."
The third separately cited how "just banter" is claimed as a defence, and explained why that claim holds no water. "Live football is well known as something everyone wants to work on. But no one wants to work with those two. They took the piss out of a runner for having no money. It's nasty bullying with an edge. It's not just banter."
All three women agree that Barney Francis, who has been managing director of Sky Sports since his appointment 18 months ago, has improved matters. His decision yesterday summarily to dismiss Gray shows that he will scarcely indulge a chauvinistic culture any longer. One said: "There has been a culture of bullying and sexism around Sky for a very long time, but recently Sky have been managing the bullying a lot better through changes in management. There were rumours of people being told off and that bullying behaviour was unacceptable."
Yet despite the positive steps made by Francis, the women all expressed a feeling that there must be more widespread surgery to eradicate what they described as a patriarchy that limits women's promotion prospects. "There's this blokey vibe and it's like a lads' club," said one. "At the BBC the head of sport is Barbara Slater. Sky are a long way from that situation.
"During my time at Sky Sports News it wasn't hidden that women were appointed to present on it primarily because of the way they looked. You can see how Andy and Richard are behaving like that because the people at the top have employed people without any experience. Clearly that's sexist and it means at Sky you are always looked down on as a woman involved in sport, full stop."
That view chimed with another's view. She said: "You'd get bosses saying, 'It's just fruit on the barrow.' I found it a very sexist working environment. The production staff found it incredibly frustrating: they're younger for a start than the management.
"But it permeated through the whole culture. When Sky Sports News first started the girls were in suits. Sky was still about the image but they wanted women who were interested in sport. "Any monkey can read an autocue and you can't build passion for what you do from nothing. But if you're a woman you were there as decoration. Anything else was a bonus. It's not that there is a criterion about how the girls look. It's that it is the main criterion."
Sky told the Guardian that it hires its presenters principally for their abilities as journalists and presenters. Nonetheless, one of the former Sky journalists pointed out that the fact that Gray and Keys's unreconstructed comments were leaked into the public domain reflects the glee that Sky employees would feel at their downfall.
"I think deep down Richard and Andy are just bullies," she said. "They bully new men in the game as well. It's how they operate. They don't have many friends there but after 20 years they've always been at the top of the game and earning a ridiculous amount of money, so I guess who's laughing?
"But they have ruled the roost for a long time and upset people for a long time. They got into bother with someone who had a schadenfreude motive. I am just surprised that you have a broadcaster with experience of 20 years talking like that in front of a mic and not expecting it to get out. It was not the first time they were caught saying things they shouldn't say. They think they can get away with murder. How arrogant."
A Sky spokesman said last night: "There was evidence at the weekend and we took action. Today there has been new evidence and we have taken entirely appropriate action. If people are saying there is a culture of sexism here that shows we don't tolerate it."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist
As suspected by some, it obviously wasn't just a one-off issue. Think it will be very hard for anyone to defend what appears to have gone on at Sky now.
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While we're at it, I give you "The most qualified person not to have managed a Premiership or Football League side":
This person won 66 caps for England, debuting at 16, won the FA Cup 3 times including the league and cup double one year. The England manager since 1998, OBE in 2002 and CBE in 2010, also obtained a UEFA Pro License coaching badge alongside Stuart Pearce in 2003. Massively exceeding expectations, England reached the final of the last European Championships in 2009.
Hope Powell was turned down in favour of some bloke called Neil Woods as manager of Grimsby in 2009.
Is it because she is black, do you think?
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Hypocritical to sack Gray and keep Keyes
Agree with that. I can only assume that Keys has got some pretty tasty blackmail on senior Sky bosses.
Talking of which, Barney Francis is the MD of Sky Sports and the son of Tony Francis, former sports presenter and, presumably, a chum of Richard Keys?
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Has the hairy chimp gone yet
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True enough and there should be massive change at Sky then, no news presenters doing FHM photo shoots, banning the numbers girls at boxing, getting rid of the girls who escort the darts players to the stage... will it happen? Or will the news move to the next story of a celeb saying something stupid and getting stung?
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Nothing will change though.
I'm not as pessimistic. I think most people have seen the problem for what it is, and that's encouraging.
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Gray, who despite the general dislike made the show what it is
Stelling would be brilliant.
Absolutely. They need to show keys the door too now, get some fresh blood in, stelling or Richardson would be brilliant (oh happy days of football italia on channel 4)
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Looks like Teen Wolf's dad might be next:
(copied from the Daily Mail so you don't have to go there)
The sexism scandal engulfing Sky Sports rumbles on today as Richard Keys faces a fight to ensure he doesn't follow sacked Andy Gray out of the door. Gray was axed from his £1.7million-a-year role as their leading football pundit after a third video emerged of his sexist behaviour.
The clip, which was posted on YouTube, was the last straw for Sky's hierarchy. They had already given him a final warning over his sexist diatribe in conversation with football presenter Richard Keys, which was launched at assistant referee Sian Massey and West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady.
But Keys is now under further scrutiny after yet another video clip was posted on YouTube. The off-air footage shows Keys using vulgar language to Jamie Redknapp, Graeme Souness and Ruud Gullit at Stamford Bridge.
Keys uses aggressive language to describe sex with a woman when discussing a former girlfriend of Redknapp called 'Louise'.
Keys refers to the woman as 'it' and twice asks Redknapp if he 'smashed it'. Redknapp replies that he 'used to go out with her'.
Now laughing, Keys then adds: 'Mind you, that's a stupid question, if you were anywhere near it, you definitely smashed it. You could have gone round there any night and found Redknapp hanging out the back of it.'
&feature=player_embedded
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While we're at it, I give you "The most qualified person not to have managed a Premiership or Football League side":
This person won 66 caps for England, debuting at 16, won the FA Cup 3 times including the league and cup double one year. The England manager since 1998, OBE in 2002 and CBE in 2010, also obtained a UEFA Pro License coaching badge alongside Stuart Pearce in 2003. Massively exceeding expectations, England reached the final of the last European Championships in 2009.
Hope Powell was turned down in favour of some bloke called Neil Woods as manager of Grimsby in 2009.
Is it because she is black, do you think?
That would be the Neil Woods who has played over 200 times for Grimsby, it's not like it was some bloke who has not be in the game.
I would imagine managers get appointed as much for their contacts as their coaching knowledge which is why Hope Powell will always find it difficult to get a manager's role in the men's game.
I don't see any reason why she can't be given a coaching role somewhere, the same stepping stone the majority of managers have to make.
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Richardson would be very good. Can you see them taking the route of going to someone like Helen Chamberlain to really right the image for some broadcasts? Ben Shepherd moved there recently though, is young, has worked with a female co presenter for years at GMTV and I would imagine will be the first in line.
Pundit wise, I always quite like Gerry Armstrong on the spanish football for some reason.
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How the hell has Keyes managed to hold onto his job?! That clip of him a few pages back, thinking he's the Fonz, using the term 'smash her' over and over just to make sure Redknapp junior hears is beyond cringeworthy. He also looks like he's overstretching slightly to ensure his crossed feet reach the table in front. Wanker.
The look on Souness face is priceless though.
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That would be the Neil Woods who has played over 200 times for Grimsby,
The same Neil Woods who in the same season failed to get Grimsby a win in his first 22 games in charge and got them relegated to the Conference.
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Being relegated with Grimsby doesn't mean he was the wrong man/woman for the job.
I'm sure now you like me has read his wikipedia entry and seen he was youth team manager there for a number of years.
It's going to be difficult for any woman to go straight in as a manager of a football team without first having some coaching experience in the male game.
You or me could manage Ragarse Rovers from under 9s through to the Midland Combination winning the league and cup double every year with all your coaching badges but you won't get a manager's job in the football league.
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All this talk of bullying at Sky.... I worked there for a short time when I was 20,21... I say a short time, because I literally walked out one Monday morning. I'd been there six or seven months. As a young sports journalist, I thought I'd cracked it when I got a job there but the atmosphere was awful - I didn't work on the football team (that was considered the place to be) but was involved with the Sky Sports News team and then, mainly, on the boxing team. But yes, I can vouch for the 'bullying', the banter with 'an edge'; I was threatened physically at one stage. By my direct manager. If I'd been a bit older and wiser, I'd have either stuck it out or at least reported something to the overall head of the department instead of quitting.
Obviously, I had no personal experience of sexism but bullying, yes. 15 years on it's quite amazing that that kind of culture is still present, apparently.
PS Barney Francis was a member of the production staff back when I was at Sky; done well to get to MD!
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Richardson would be very good. Can you see them taking the route of going to someone like Helen Chamberlain to really right the image for some broadcasts? Ben Shepherd moved there recently though, is young, has worked with a female co presenter for years at GMTV and I would imagine will be the first in line.
Pundit wise, I always quite like Gerry Armstrong on the spanish football for some reason.
I don't think Richardson had enough fawning adoration of the stars to be acceptable. He sees them as human beings and not the demi-gods that they are.
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Newsrooms, be it TV or press are pretty well known for being tough places to work because of the bullying/pressured/whatever you want to call it atmospheres that they can develop.
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your never alone with a microphone.
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your never alone with a microphone.
There's the old Stallone story of him allegedly forgetting to turn his clip-microphone off in his trailer. A young lady was visiting him and he was heard saying the mantra (and it's best to imagine his voice here) "Ngggrh, Stroke the shaft, Cup the balls, Say my name, Nnngrh"
I added the "Nggrhs" because he makes that sort of noise when he speaks.
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Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
But there is a difference between taking the piss, and being a creepy lech. Women in my workplace seem to know the difference.
Is that why you finished up in court?
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"Ngggrh, Stroke the shaft, Cup the balls,
Was he giving the young lady golf lessons?
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your never alone with a microphone.
There's the old Stallone story of him allegedly forgetting to turn his clip-microphone off in his trailer. A young lady was visiting him and he was heard saying the mantra (and it's best to imagine his voice here) "Ngggrh, Stroke the shaft, Cup the balls, Say my name, Nnngrh"
I added the "Nggrhs" because he makes that sort of noise when he speaks.
don't push me...
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Breaking News: Skysports have hired the high profile West Midland's top football pundits Tony Butler and Tom Ross to replace Keys and Gray. Butler and Ross have signed a long term contract and have agreed to follow the new code of conduct that bars them from mentioning any of 2.5 million unacceptale words or phrases. Speaking through his agent Butler said " I am ****** delighted with this enormous ***** of an opportunity and I can't wait to goo down to the studio and kick some **** and have you seen that top ****** they have? I never dreamt I 'd get a look in at fresh **** like that in my lifetime"
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Pretty grim by the sound of it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist
They deserve all that they get .. pair of .....
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Be honest, we're all at it in one way or another to varying degrees and it'd be hypocritical to say otherwise.
But there is a difference between taking the piss, and being a creepy lech. Women in my workplace seem to know the difference.
Is that why you finished up in court?
I spend so much time down in HR I have my own seat and mug
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
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Slightly off topic, but is there any tips on who will take Gray's place on Sky?
I'd say Jamie Redknapp, although never heard him do commentary before!
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My Mrs thinks the world's gone mad - her thoughts as a careerist female are, where is the sense of humour gone ? and that it is a fact, males and females are different etc.....
OTT in her opinion.
God I love her.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
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If they've any sense Sky will use this as an opportunity to freshen up the whole thing.
I agree on that.
Hopefully they'll ditch that 1990s style over the top American presentation, that whole "Monday Night Football" spangly graphics bullshit.
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Where is the line drawn though.
I've worked at places where games like "shag, marry or throw of a cliff" have been played on nights out by males and females, places where the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women. Taken to it's further degrees all the people involved should be sacked. None of the above is right, but in the same sense saying someone is a looker surely isn't a sackable offence?
Not sure exactly where the line should be draw but the workplace is certainly a place this sort of "banter" should be forbidden. If I'd said what Gray said to a female colleague I would have been sacked on the spot, and rightly so.
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A couple of questions for some of the people on here.
If you had a daughter, who is attractive, and in her mid-twenties, and saw a middle-aged man sticks his hand down his trousers and say "Are you going to help me tuck this in?". Let's say it is your friend, in the pub or one of her colleague's at work. Is this flirting, or just having a laugh?
This is not really analagous. The Sky girl has made a substantial amount of money objectifying herself by posing "provocatively" in lads mags.
If that was my daughter that would actually disappoint me more than the almost inevitable reaction from some men.
So that makes her fair game then? Give me strength.
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Where is the line drawn though.
I've worked at places where games like "shag, marry or throw of a cliff" have been played on nights out by males and females, places where the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women. Taken to it's further degrees all the people involved should be sacked. None of the above is right, but in the same sense saying someone is a looker surely isn't a sackable offence?
Not sure exactly where the line should be draw but the workplace is certainly a place this sort of "banter" should be forbidden. If I'd said what Gray said to a female colleague I would have been sacked on the spot, and rightly so.
If that had been the case in the couple of places I have worked there would have been dozens of sackings a month (male and female). I guess it depends on what is considered acceptable, or what is acceptable until someone pulls the carpet from underneath the people involved, as has happened in this case.
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Has the hairy baboon had his P45 yet
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i asked my wife about the off side rule, she didnt have a clue,
but she did tell me that 'Joules' have opened up a new shop just up the road in Olney, and it has a sale on.
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the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women.
I never get asked on nights out like that. Life is so unfair
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i asked my wife about the off side rule, she didnt have a clue,
but she did tell me that 'Joules' have opened up a new shop just up the road in Olney, and it has a sale on.
Nice little place, Olney.
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Key's was speaking, exclusively, on ITV news today.
Goodness, he looks rough.
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the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women.
I never get asked on nights out like that. Life is so unfair
Those events weren't even nights out, but regular office occurrences! One of the best night out stories happened when two account managers decided it would be a good idea to perform a lap-dance for a client and then end up in bed with them.
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the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women.
I never get asked on nights out like that. Life is so unfair
Those events weren't even nights out, but regular office occurrences! One of the best night out stories happened when two account managers decided it would be a good idea to perform a lap-dance for a client and then end up in bed with them.
That could never happen where I work; the most attractive woman here has got a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle.
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Yes he looks like a dead man walking
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the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women.
I never get asked on nights out like that. Life is so unfair
Those events weren't even nights out, but regular office occurrences! One of the best night out stories happened when two account managers decided it would be a good idea to perform a lap-dance for a client and then end up in bed with them.
any jobs going ?
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Keys was also speaking exclusively on Talk Shite (his next employer?) about "a bit of fun we got wrong" and said Karen Brady wouldn't take his calls :)
And did you notice Richard, she employs someone to answer her phone and wasn't off making coffee for someone either?
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the females would wind the males up by flashing underwear or more, or lads being accused of being heartless/dead inside if they didn't want to be hugged/groped by women.
I never get asked on nights out like that. Life is so unfair
Those events weren't even nights out, but regular office occurrences! One of the best night out stories happened when two account managers decided it would be a good idea to perform a lap-dance for a client and then end up in bed with them.
That could never happen where I work; the most attractive woman here has got a face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle.
The most attractive women in this office were genetically engineered at the Laboratoire Garnier, and are stored in cryogenic suspension
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Key's was speaking, exclusively, on ITV news today.
Goodness, he looks rough.
Would you not smash it, Pauline?
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Keys was also speaking exclusively on Talk Shite (his next employer?) about "a bit of fun we got wrong" and said Karen Brady wouldn't take his calls :)
He wanted to do an on-air apology on Sky and they wouldn't let him. If going on TalkSport was his own idea and it goes wrong, that is it
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Key's was speaking, exclusively, on ITV news today.
Goodness, he looks rough.
Would you not smash it, Pauline?
haha that's a definite no. I'm fed up not hard up. Well, actually that's not strictly true...................................... -;)
Damn quote thingy.
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Not if Redknapp's hanging out the back of it
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
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Keys live on talksport now answering questions and squirming.
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My other half who works in HR got an email from one of her managers this morning who is a big cricket fan explaining that in the light of recent events he'd like to clarify that he never had any doubt whatsoever that she understood the LBW rule.
She laughed and then suspended him before no doubt sacking him.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
classy lady
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I'm convinced that Sky wanted rid of both of them, but have used Keys to stitch Gray up.
In the 'linesman incident' it seems to me that Keys was the one being derogotory and that Gray was just agreeing with him.
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Keys live on talksport now answering questions and squirming.
He sounds awful on it. Doing the sexual discrimination equivalent of "but some of my best friends are black".
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Keys live on talksport now answering questions and squirming.
He sounds awful on it. Doing the sexual discrimination equivalent of "but some of my best friends are black".
Weird mix of whining and grovelling
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
classy lady
No surprise there - I believe she is from Dudley.
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Gray will end up on ESPN.
Good to hear that his name was being sung last night by the Villa fans.
Right chaps... I'm off to get Loose Women off the air.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
Popbitch Gold.
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We do like a squirmer don't we.
I take my hat off to Keys for going on air.
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
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Gray will end up on ESPN.
Good to hear that his name was being sung last night by the Villa fans.
Right chaps... I'm off to get Loose Women off the air.
Absolutely.
Fight the good fight I say.
Can you mulitask, are you lazy, good in bed, a good cook, caring, rich ... the list goes on !
Madness.
Accept the apologies and move on I say.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
I think there have been lots of recordings of Sue Lawley.
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Sympathy? None whatsoever. What a conceited little twat Keys is, it's Dianaesque now, the little tears 'there were 3 of us in this relationship' oh fuck off Keys. Richard Keys Prince of Hearts.
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
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i asked my wife about the off side rule, she didnt have a clue,
but she did tell me that 'Joules' have opened up a new shop just up the road in Olney, and it has a sale on.
Nice little place, Olney.
I've never been.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
I think there have been lots of recordings of Sue Lawley.
The Police did one didn't they?
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
And living in the real world, and just being himself. Unlike some, cloud cuckooland, cliquey scum on here.
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
It's true I worked in the hotel as a cleaner at the time.
It took me ages to scrub the walls down afterwards!
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You are just so controversial.
He's living in the real world, Daddio.
A bitch iz a bitch in his little backwater 'hood
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
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You are just so controversial.
A bitch iz a bitch in his little backwater 'hood
Location: South London
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
If you've got time to post on H&V, you've got time to tidy up those used tissues under your bed. Before your mum finds them.
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Sounds as though he's close to resigning - if not I think he will get sacked in any case!
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
Sort of, but he had to be "withdrawn" half way through due to a twinge in his sack!
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
Louise must be loving this !!
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
I think there have been lots of recordings of Sue Lawley.
The Police did one didn't they?
I was thinking of Desert Island Discs.
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Location: South London
I'm guessing you're doing your jive-talk from a bedroom in a nice detathed in a middle class suburb on the outskirts of nowhere?
er....Blud
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I hear now that he appeared with Sky's blessing. So it's part of a rehabilitation strategy. Reprimand, apology, pretend it never happened. Booo
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
Louise must be loving this !!
She understands "The Power of a Woman"....
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
Please elaborate.
She was in a hotel room with a gentleman and unbeknown to her a sound engineer had rigged her room and there was a tape doing the rounds of the BBC of her shouting 'fuck me until I fart' whilst engaged in the act.
Popbitch Gold.
Hadn't thought of that. I've been sat on internet gossip dynamite!
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
If you've got time to post on H&V, you've got time to tidy up those used tissues under your bed. Before your mum finds them.
Ballin' all day every day.
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
If you've got time to post on H&V, you've got time to tidy up those used tissues under your bed. Before your mum finds them.
Ballin' all day every day.
Strange, I picture you crying with lonely teenage angst as you type that.
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
Louise must be loving this !!
She understands "The Power of a Woman"....
She'd never dump Jamie. She's got too used to all those Thomas Cook holidays now.
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
Sounds like he thinks he's in Star Wars. He'd be perfect as Chewbacca, to be fair.
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
Sky wanted Gray out.
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob
Sexist and Racist???
he'll be on a fast-track to the top at talk Sporta
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Ballin' all day every day.
Do those words actually mean anything?
Is it something to do with Dungeons and Dragons?
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
I can see another David Icke on our hands, give his job to that nice Nick Owen.
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Keys isn't sorry for what he said, he's sorry he got caught.
Ok we've all made mistakes & probably made silly comments, but there's a time & place to do it, when there's a mic & a camera on you it's probably best to keep shut.
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Keys still hasn't addressed the real issue. Did Jamie Redknapp smash it or not?
Louise must be loving this !!
She understands "The Power of a Woman"....
She'd never dump Jamie. She's got too used to all those Thomas Cook holidays now.
probably has not even noticed as she is Wii-ing all day
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At the end of that clip, Souness appears to lift his leg and nudge Keys as if to say "calm down" or soemthing
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
If you've got time to post on H&V, you've got time to tidy up those used tissues under your bed. Before your mum finds them.
Ballin' all day every day.
Strange, I picture you crying with lonely teenage angst as you type that.
If you say so.
Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking... it's time to run for the hills and into The Mailbox meeting this 8/10 for some food.
Inabit Clique. Keep hating and calling people bigots. (Teh Loose Womenz can't be sexist though as they're women and it's OK for women to make jokes about men? Man makes joke about women = Bigot and sexist.)
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Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking... it's time to run for the hills and into The Mailbox meeting this 8/10 for some food
.
I think that's some sort of black-gang speak for "mommy's just called me downstairs to eat my dinner".
Crazy wiggaz with attitude
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If you say so.
Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking... it's time to run for the hills and into The Mailbox meeting this 8/10 for some food.
Inabit Clique. Keep hating and calling people bigots. (Teh Loose Womenz can't be sexist though as they're women and it's OK for women to make jokes about men? Man makes joke about women = Bigot and sexist.)
Ok, finally, for the hard of thinking - man makes joke about women or vice versa = ok in context, man questions the ability of a linesman to do their job based solely on their gender and WITH NO TONE OR INTENT OF HUMOUR = bigot and sexist.
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The kids around where I live all talk like an MTV gangster rap video on the bus, then they jump off at the stop and stroll into £2 milllion pound houses looking for Mater and Pater and their cous cous.
fo sure dawwg...
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
I can see another David Icke on our hands, give his job to that nice Nick Owen.
I second that, and team him up with Anne Diamond like the good old days.
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Inabit Clique. Keep hating and calling people bigots. (Teh Loose Womenz can't be sexist though as they're women and it's OK for women to make jokes about men? Man makes joke about women = Bigot and sexist.)
Just so you know, one way to get yourself banned is to twat on about "cliques" on here.
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Really?
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Deleted my post last night paulie.......why was that?
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Anyways... it's time to run for the hills and into The Mailbox meeting this 8/10 for some food.
Meaning: mum has heated up some spaghetti hoops in the microwave
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Better change my ring tone as it'd be viewed as 'sexist'...
You are just so controversial.
ennit blud
If you've got time to post on H&V, you've got time to tidy up those used tissues under your bed. Before your mum finds them.
Ballin' all day every day.
Inabit Clique. Keep hating and calling people bigots. (Teh Loose Womenz can't be sexist though as they're women and it's OK for women to make jokes about men? Man makes joke about women = Bigot and sexist.)
That started as urban jamaican but by the time I had finished reading the last sentence it went Red Indian! Kevin Costner stars in "Man makes joke about women"
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Key's is talking about ''dark forces'' what a knob.
I can see another David Icke on our hands, give his job to that nice Nick Owen.
I second that, and team him up with Anne Diamond like the good old days.
I can see the Sky management meeting, "what we need is a fat bird so we don't get accused of just employing lookers".
I think Anne's got her hands full flogging all that gold.
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If Keys is serious about apologising, he actually needs to be interviewed by a woman.
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If Keys is serious about apologising, he actually needs to be interviewed by a woman
That would be good
And the first thing she should ask him to do is explain the offside law in a way that everyone can understand.
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How about Anne Diamond ?
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If Keys is serious about apologising, he actually needs to be interviewed by a woman.
A barely legal blond beauty with huge knockers?
Etc, etc...
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If you say so.
Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking... it's time to run for the hills and into The Mailbox meeting this 8/10 for some food.
Inabit Clique. Keep hating and calling people bigots. (Teh Loose Womenz can't be sexist though as they're women and it's OK for women to make jokes about men? Man makes joke about women = Bigot and sexist.)
Nah, you're off to watch Sky. The way you bang on about it all the time makes me think that you're the one who needs to get out more.
Ger's post explains everything. Read it, think about it and then post again.
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If Keys is serious about apologising, he actually needs to be interviewed by a woman
That would be good
And the first thing she should ask him to do is explain the offside law in a way that everyone can understand.
Yes. Very good.
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Deleted my post last night paulie.......why was that?
I deleted your post?
I think you'll find I didn't
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Deleted my post last night paulie.......why was that?
I deleted your post?
I think you'll find I didn't
Barrysleftfoot blames 'dark forces' behind post deletion.
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As Fagin sang in Oliver " I'm reviewing The Situation, can a fellow be a dickhead all his life?"
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Some people are a bit spikey today.
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I never really disliked Keys apart from the usual Coventry/hates Villa angle.
Having heard the majority of the Talksport interview I have changed my opinion to the end that the man sounds as concieted and arrogant as I have ever heard during an interview. And I'm including Michael Gove.
His constant apologies became more hollow as trotted them out, his pleading for the press to leave Massey alone was breathtaking and I could hear the sound of digging getting louder and louder as the interview went on.
He would've been better off keeping his mouth shut, his head down and hope that the whole thing would die down.
And if I hear the word "banter" again I won't be resonsible for my actions. The new catch all excuse for ignorant, ill-judged and puerile statements.
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If Keys is serious about apologising, he actually needs to be interviewed by a woman
That would be good
And the first thing she should ask him to do is explain the offside law in a way that everyone can understand.
Do you know a woman who knows the offside rule ?
Most men don't know it, I get confused by it - and it's a long-standing inter-sex joke that women generally don't know the offside rule.
Clearly a qualified Asst Ref would know the offside rule, but not many women !
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Deleted my post last night paulie.......why was that?
I deleted your post?
I think you'll find I didn't
Barrysleftfoot blames 'dark forces' behind post deletion.
The only way I would condone any deletion of material related to BLF's posts would be the bizarre three lines of white space at the start of them.
Well, that and the sexist nonsense from last night, but in this instance I didn't delete anything, and having checked the moderation log, neither has anyone else.
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How about Anne Diamond ?
I'd smash it!
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I was told many years ago by somebody who is very reliable about a recording made of Sue Lawley.
I think there have been lots of recordings of Sue Lawley.
The Police did one didn't they?
Very good - wish I hadn't read it with a mouthful of tea though, as most of it's now down the front of my shirt.
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Clearly a qualified Asst Ref would know the offside rule, but not many women !
Keys said that *a qualified match official* wouldn't know the offside rule *because she was a woman*.
It's different, I hope you see that.
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And if I hear the word "banter" again I won't be resonsible for my actions. The new catch all excuse for ignorant, ill-judged and puerile statements.
Yep, was about to post something similar to this. It seems to be a get out excuse for morons who want to cause maximum offense yet get away with it. Its as if saying 'it was banter' means everyone should understand that they shouldn't take offense. Note that it only becomes 'banter' after the offensive thing has been said and the person is brought to task about it.
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Do you know a woman who knows the offside rule ?
Most men don't know it, I get confused by it - and it's a long-standing inter-sex joke that women generally don't know the offside rule.
Clearly a qualified Asst Ref would know the offside rule, but not many women !
Well if the woman in question knows the rules then whats the big problem?
This issue has brought a few people out of their shells, its mad.
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Clearly a qualified Asst Ref would know the offside rule, but not many women !
Keys said that *a qualified match official* wouldn't know the offside rule *because she was a woman*.
It's different, I hope you see that.
I haven't got ARMD.
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Do you know a woman who knows the offside rule ?
Most men don't know it, I get confused by it - and it's a long-standing inter-sex joke that women generally don't know the offside rule.
If they'd joked about it on a chatshow, like "Loose Women" which is becoming the catch-all example for all the people out there who are refusing or unable to engage their brains, it would have been alright.
If a member of the "Loose Women" panel was recorded off-air saying person X could not do job Y, because they are male, I would accept the same negative publicity.
Argue all you want about the severity of Gray's punishment, but the argument is cut and dried. I was going to say, balck and whitem but didn't want to put it in the same sentence as "Gray".
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I haven't got ARMD.
Sorry, don't understand.
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Do you know a woman who knows the offside rule ?
Most men don't know it, I get confused by it - and it's a long-standing inter-sex joke that women generally don't know the offside rule.
Clearly a qualified Asst Ref would know the offside rule, but not many women !
Well if the woman in question knows the rules then whats the big problem?
This issue has brought a few people out of their shells, its mad.
I don't have a big problem with anything stu.
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http://threeandin.com/2011/01/26/richard-keys-talksport-interview/
Richard Keys with the longest suicide note ever heard. He needed to consult Max Clifford or someone before this, as he's given everybody enough rope to hang him.
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Sorry paulie........seems i did'nt press the right button........what a dinosaur.
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I don't have a big problem with anything stu.
Fair enough, just wondering why you'd claim that most women don't know the offside rule. It doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand.
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i asked my wife about the off side rule, she didnt have a clue,
but she did tell me that 'Joules' have opened up a new shop just up the road in Olney, and it has a sale on.
Nice little place, Olney.
yes, lovely, famous for its annual Pancake race,
i think its on Tuesday this year
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I don't have a big problem with anything stu.
Fair enough, just wondering why you'd claim that most women don't know the offside rule. It doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand.
I was 'talking' to Chico !
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I don't have a big problem with anything stu.
Fair enough, just wondering why you'd claim that most women don't know the offside rule. It doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand.
I was 'talking' to Chico !
But...but...this is a public forum! I didn't know you were having a private conversation!
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Borrowed but still: Keys will be alright. He's always got that Cadbury's Dairy Milk drumming advert cash to fall back on
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I was 'talking' to Chico !
Sorry, Tim, but today I am only responding to messages which are posted in some kind of Jamaican patois/South Central LA pop-cappin' hybrid lingo.
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Deleted my post last night paulie.......why was that?
I deleted your post?
I think you'll find I didn't
Barrysleftfoot blames 'dark forces' behind post deletion.
Amongst the moderators last night was HRH Prince Phillip.
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If I was a gay footballer I would consider coming out in the current climate of sport for all, you'll never have an easier ride, so to speak.
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http://threeandin.com/2011/01/26/richard-keys-talksport-interview/
Richard Keys with the longest suicide note ever heard. He needed to consult Max Clifford or someone before this, as he's given everybody enough rope to hang him.
"I called her, we had some banter"
*cringe*
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Oh God gets worse, "all those hounding her, please leave her alone".
What a knight
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If my name was an anagram of Randy Gay, I think I'd keep my sexist opinions to myself!
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How about Anne Diamond ?
How about Sally James ?
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If my name was an anagram of Randy Gay, I think I'd keep my sexist opinions to myself!
And if my name was an anagram of "Dear Rich Sky" I'd be writing a grovelling letter to my employers.
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How about Anne Diamond ?
How about Sally James ?
How about Vanessa Feltz?
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And if my name was an anagram of "Dear Rich Sky
Dick Rear Shy?
Dry Hick Arse?
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How about Anne Diamond ?
How about Sally James ?
How about Vanessa Feltz?
smash...
Smash...
SMASH!!!!!!!!
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How about Dame Edna that would confuse.
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Sky BREAKING NEWS
Keys - Seriously Considering his position
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I don't have a big problem with anything stu.
Fair enough, just wondering why you'd claim that most women don't know the offside rule. It doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand.
I was 'talking' to Chico !
But...but...this is a public forum! I didn't know you were having a private conversation!
Ok, replying to Chico.
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Sky BREAKING NEWS
Keys - Seriously Considering his position
Followed by "Has decided to soldier on following a good old show of 'remorse' for his actions"
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Cannot see Sky keeping him on
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Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking...
People who disagree with The Situation = clique
People who agree with The Situation = living in the real world.
People who are The Situation = sad little keyboard warrior.
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http://threeandin.com/2011/01/26/richard-keys-talksport-interview/
Richard Keys with the longest suicide note ever heard. He needed to consult Max Clifford or someone before this, as he's given everybody enough rope to hang him.
"I called her, we had some banter"
*cringe*
I liked the 'It was because Matt Murray was there' excuse...Bloody hell, Keys get an agent or someone whose knows about PR quick time.
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http://threeandin.com/2011/01/26/richard-keys-talksport-interview/
Richard Keys with the longest suicide note ever heard. He needed to consult Max Clifford or someone before this, as he's given everybody enough rope to hang him.
"I called her, we had some banter"
*cringe*
I liked the 'It was because Matt Murray was there' excuse...Bloody hell, Keys get an agent or someone whose knows about PR quick time.
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Anyways, I'm off the internetz for a bit. The Clique are attacking...
People who disagree with The Situation = clique
People who agree with The Situation = living in the real world.
People who are The Situation = sad little keyboard warrior.
DC you playa hater.
You won't make it into the film of his life story either.
Think 8 Mile meets Adrian Mole.
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Key's answer to the question about the 'smash it/ hanging out of the back it' question is honestly the most cringe worthy thing I've ever heard. It's what David Brent from the Office would say 'awful, terrible, dreadful...needs reconstruction.' You plank.
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He's resigned according to TalkSHITE and ITV.com
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Just seen on skynews he's resigned
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both gone!
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Excellent. Just Jamie "Literally" Redknapp to go then.
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If he'd done that in the first place he would've retained a lot more dignity.
That interview will go down in history, but he'll be back.
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Excellent. Just Jamie "Literally" Redknapp to go then.
If that happens Ill cancel my sky subscripton
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If he'd done that in the first place he would've retained a lot more dignity.
That interview will go down in history, but he'll be back.
Yes, I hear Coach Trip are hiring.
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Keys has got his just desserts- good riddance!
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I couldn't stand that hairy Coventry chimp. Smug wanker; good riddance.
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I just hope this doesn't impact on the female lino's career!
Blimey there is another Leftside!
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(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6349/cornelious.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/cornelious.jpg/)
Goodbye Cornelious, you shan't be missed.
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It will be interesting to see if they drop the soccerette from Soccer Am on Sat morning!
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And so Keys goes, too.
I can't be bothered to trawl through 40-odd pages of debate, so I apologise if this comment has made previously.
(1) As always, the problem here is not that people indulge in this sort of "banter", but rather they get caught. Being caught is the offence.
I would imagine what they said about Sian Massey, whilst not correct, was only echoing what thousands of TV viewers and spectators at Molineux were saying. Go into most workplaces, on most days, and you'll hear sexist comments - including all the stereotypes that women pin on men.
It's not big and it's not clever, but it is the way that the battle of the sexes is played out. On the basis the fairer sex has all but won that battle, the comments of two blokes is, in the overall scheme of things, irrelevant.
I do think, though, that the sexual innuendo with the microphone was inexcusable.
(2) The hypocrisy of the Murdoch Empire is jaw-dropping. On one hand it wants to offer the head of Gray on a plate to half the population; on the other hand it wants to give the other half of the population Page 3 to ogle.
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(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6349/cornelious.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/cornelious.jpg/)
Goodbye Cornelious, you shan't be missed.
Quality post!
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I couldn't stand that hairy Coventry chimp. Smug wanker; good riddance.
That's no way to talk about eastie.
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Yes!
Fuck off you hairy twat
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Millions of footy fans are at a loss what to do next as Gray and Keys invented football and are that the footy fan knows. They also helped inform the footy fan what team to support and what was happening during the game. The footy fan may fail to cope with GrandSlamSuperDuperSurvival Sunday matches no longer having their talisman presenting it. A sad loss to us all.
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I guess this will mean a promotion for Stelling who is a much better presenter and more likeable bloke than the departing baboon.
The lino who prompted all this should get an award for services to football.
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I've got a feeling it's going to be Ben Sheppard.
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I am still of the view that sacking the pair was a step too far. There were other options that could have been pursued to discipline them for their comments. I feel a reaction this strong just stirs up resentment and does little to change people's attitudes towards sexism.
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I guess this will mean a promotion for Stelling who is a much better presenter and more likeable bloke than the departing baboon.
The lino who prompted all this should get an award for services to football.
Stelling would be a good choice.
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Liked this comment on youchoob:
For Christ's sake, Richard... "Would you smash it?"
It's a woman's vagina, not a fortified Taliban stronghold.
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Promote Kammy!!
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Millions of footy fans are at a loss what to do next as Gray and Keys invented football and are that the footy fan knows. They also helped inform the footy fan what team to support and what was happening during the game. The footy fan may fail to cope with GrandSlamSuperDuperSurvival Sunday matches no longer having their talisman presenting it. A sad loss to us all.
The lino who prompted all this should get an award for services to football.
Agreed.
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So who will get promotion to the main 2 for Sky.
I wonder how is Sian feeling about the media storm. Have anyone ask her anything ?
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ftp://
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Glad the hand-waxer's gone. Gray will be missed though.
AC Jimbo and Ray Hudson for the win.
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Stelling or George gavin would be ok but I hope it's not that ex gmtv presenter ben shepherd , so London biased it's a joke.
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Goodbye you hairy little shit. You will not be missed.
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Stelling shouldn't get it, he'd be missed on Soccer Saturday.
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I'm sure Tim Lovejoy will be offering his services to rescue the game he helped invent.
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they paid a very high price for there mistake, to high in my view.
everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect not even on here would you believe
the difference between what they said/did and BFR, is that i never hear the N word in normal everday conversations even in a all male pub chat,
but i hear stuff about women and the offside law and sexual inuendo all the time, mostly in jest, but nevertheless stil comon place.
you wont have to look to far even on some H+V threads to see sex 'banter' you know 'i would' and all that stuff, i'm guilty of it myself, so i'm not criticizing
anyone
yes they overstepped the mark, and deserved some punnishment, but for both to lose there jobs is to harsh
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Trouble with media you have to be whiter than snow
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Sky execs have really gone up in my estimations after this. They didn't have to do it. They could have just given them a little ban for publicity but they took a very serious view on the issue. Fair play to them.
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Millions of footy fans are at a loss what to do next as Gray and Keys invented football and are that the footy fan knows. They also helped inform the footy fan what team to support and what was happening during the game. The footy fan may fail to cope with GrandSlamSuperDuperSurvival Sunday matches no longer having their talisman presenting it. A sad loss to us all.
Laugh out loud rubbish tinged with jealousy.
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Salsa has it spot on.
Yes if you or I made a remark about a female colleague not being able to do the job "because she's female" we'd get maybe a bollocking or at worst a written warning. But Gray and Keys are (or were!) highly paid, very high profile media figures, they had no chance of getting away with such remarks with today's media ready to pounce, and they have dragged the name of Sky through the mud as a result. Their positions were untenable.
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Trouble with media you have to be whiter than snow
Or make sure your mike isn't on when not on air, and that any fooling around isn't taped or videoed.
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AC Jimbo and Ray Hudson for the win.
Richardson and Glendenning would be enough for me to take out a Sky subsciption on their own.
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oh barry glendenning, great shout!
that would be a comedy duo
the pj and duncan of the sporting world
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Can you imagine Jeff Stelling coming out with any of that spiteful shit? No. Richardson? No. The idea that 'it's unfair, it could happen to anyone' is just wrong.
And if they were so unpopular that their colleagues risked the sack to expose them.... well, they must be as nasty as the clips suggest.
They've had a good run and been paid millions to do a not-very-demanding job. Good luck in the jungle.
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Millions of footy fans are at a loss what to do next as Gray and Keys invented football and are that the footy fan knows. They also helped inform the footy fan what team to support and what was happening during the game. The footy fan may fail to cope with GrandSlamSuperDuperSurvival Sunday matches no longer having their talisman presenting it. A sad loss to us all.
Laugh out loud rubbish tinged with jealousy.
I think it is fair enough
There is a whole generation of football fans who have known nothing other than being spoon fed televisual vomit by those two bell ends.
Good riddance.
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Can you imagine Jeff Stelling coming out with any of that spiteful shit? No. Richardson? No. The idea that 'it's unfair, it could happen to anyone' is just wrong.
And if they were so unpopular that their colleagues risked the sack to expose them.... well, they must be as nasty as the clips suggest.
They've had a good run and been paid millions to do a not-very-demanding job. Good luck in the jungle.
Bang on the money as usual.
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Can you imagine Jeff Stelling coming out with any of that spiteful shit? No. Richardson? No. The idea that 'it's unfair, it could happen to anyone' is just wrong.
And if they were so unpopular that their colleagues risked the sack to expose them.... well, they must be as nasty as the clips suggest.
They've had a good run and been paid millions to do a not-very-demanding job. Good luck in the jungle.
It takes a particularly clueless individual to spend thirty full minutes apologising on live radio, only to come out at the other end having made himself look even more of a twat.
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Millions of footy fans are at a loss what to do next as Gray and Keys invented football and are that the footy fan knows. They also helped inform the footy fan what team to support and what was happening during the game. The footy fan may fail to cope with GrandSlamSuperDuperSurvival Sunday matches no longer having their talisman presenting it. A sad loss to us all.
Laugh out loud rubbish tinged with jealousy.
I think it is fair enough
There is a whole generation of football fans who have known nothing other than being spoon fed televisual vomit by those two bell ends.
Good riddance.
that would be great if you thought that it would change now, it wont, it will be the same hype Sky invented football,
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Salsa has it spot on.
Yes if you or I made a remark about a female colleague not being able to do the job "because she's female" we'd get maybe a bollocking or at worst a written warning. But Gray and Keys are (or were!) highly paid, very high profile media figures, they had no chance of getting away with such remarks with today's media ready to pounce, and they have dragged the name of Sky through the mud as a result. Their positions were untenable.
They had those and had the Monday football taken off them to probably keep them out of the spotlight for a little while. It was the follow up clip that did for Gray which would have done for you and me in similar circumstances if more complaints came out about the same issue from other people in your line of business.
Keys probably jumped before being pushed or was told he was going to be taken off the front line for the rest of the season and couldn't face not being top dog anymore.
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Can you imagine Jeff Stelling coming out with any of that spiteful shit? No. Richardson? No. The idea that 'it's unfair, it could happen to anyone' is just wrong.
And if they were so unpopular that their colleagues risked the sack to expose them.... well, they must be as nasty as the clips suggest.
They've had a good run and been paid millions to do a not-very-demanding job. Good luck in the jungle.
i have no idea how Stelling controls himself on count down
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He is so excitable about any old crap, it is quite endearing
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i have no idea how Stelling controls himself on count down
Especially when she wears her summer dresses.
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i have no idea how Stelling controls himself on count down
Especially when she wears her summer dresses.
I actually prefer Suzy Dent.
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Being a famous TV presenter is very bad for your ego. You start to imagine that you are terribly important, that everything you say is right, that no-one has a right to question or correct you.
So your faults become exaggerated, whatever they may be. I have seen it happen and it takes a very strong person to come out the other side with any credibility or any friends.
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i have no idea how Stelling controls himself on count down
Especially when she wears her summer dresses.
I actually prefer Suzy Dent.
I didn't realise she is 43/44. She has aged quite well and I suspect didn't need the extra help that Carol had to do it either.
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Wonder if the self-congratulatory Twenty Years of Sky Sports crap is going to need somewhat of a re-edit now to place less emphasis on Keys' and Gray's importance during that period.
I've long despised the two on camera but am still surprised to learn that those that worked with them seemingly disliked them even more.
I'd love to believe that their removal from tv would see an end to the demonising of officials and the super-slo-mo dissection of any decision they dare to get wrong in the split-second in which they have to make it, but I guess that's hoping a bit much. So I'll settle for the pair of them having to go cap in hand to ESPN / Al Jazeera / TalkShite.
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i have no idea how Stelling controls himself on count down
Especially when she wears her summer dresses.
I actually prefer Suzy Dent.
I didn't realise she is 43/44. She has aged quite well and I suspect didn't need the extra help that Carol had to do it either.
I'm far less impressed by younger women these days, it's all about the forty somethings.
Mind you, I am 42, and there'd be no chance of snaring any of them, so it's all kind of by the by.
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Being a famous TV presenter is very bad for your ego. You start to imagine that you are terribly important, that everything you say is right, that no-one has a right to question or correct you.
So your faults become exaggerated, whatever they may be. I have seen it happen and it takes a very strong person to come out the other side with any credibility or any friends.
And Trev McDonut always seemed so nice on that there telly.
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The best moment in all of this was the comment: "I see that Karren Brady has been complaining about sexism in the game. Yeah, right, love"
The fact it was clearly made without even a hint of irony puts Keys right up there in Partridge territory.
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Trev = old school
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I'm far less impressed by younger women these days, it's all about the forty somethings.
Mind you, I am 42, and there'd be no chance of snaring any of them, so it's all kind of by the by.
You could always show them your online betting account balance. Something similar worked for Paul Daniels.
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I'm far less impressed by younger women these days, it's all about the forty somethings.
Mind you, I am 42, and there'd be no chance of snaring any of them, so it's all kind of by the by.
You could always show them your online betting account balance. Something similar worked for Paul Daniels.
And his Alsatian
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i asked the girls in the office what they thought about this, they said you could tell what sort of person Andy Gray is, none of them thought they should lose thier job because of it, they were not offended just put it down to blokish attitudes and blokish stupidity, for them it just proved that most blokes are inferior to women in terms of what is important, i think they are right
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The best moment in all of this was the comment: "I see that Karren Brady has been complaining about sexism in the game. Yeah, right, love"
The fact it was clearly made without even a hint of irony puts Keys right up there in Partridge territory.
The stupidness of their comments is that it seems to have proved her right even though the context for her claims were that she sent texts to players to get them to turn against the manager of her football team and she reckons this was being reported because she is a woman in a mans world. The press weren't reporting this because she is a woman, they were reporting it because she is probably scheming enough to try to do that.
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the fact that Brady who is a hideous specimen of the female had a big hand in this leaves me with no joy at all
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Neither had the wit to realise that it is the football that is popular, not them. They thought a big audience reflected on them when most of us would watch it if it was fronted by Martin Bormann.
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Neither had the wit to realise that it is the football that is popular, not them. They thought a big audience reflected on them when most of us would watch it if it was fronted by Martin Bormann.
or even you ;)
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Neither had the wit to realise that it is the football that is popular, not them. They thought a big audience reflected on them when most of us would watch it if it was fronted by Martin Bormann.
or even you ;)
*smashes Sky box to bits just in case*
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the fact that Brady who is a hideous specimen of the female had a big hand in this leaves me with no joy at all
How did she have a hand in it? Keys made a remark about her, she wasn't there. It's not her fault any more than it's Sian Massey's and God knows I'm no admirer of Karren Brady
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Monday Night from the Bunker with Martin Bormann and Albert Speer
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i asked the girls in the office what they thought about this, they said you could tell what sort of person Andy Gray is, none of them thought they should lose thier job because of it, they were not offended just put it down to blokish attitudes and blokish stupidity, for them it just proved that most blokes are inferior to women in terms of what is important, i think they are right
I bet you're the boss, aren't you?
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the fact that Brady who is a hideous specimen of the female had a big hand in this leaves me with no joy at all
How did she have a hand in it? Keys made a remark about her, she wasn't there. It's not her fault any more than it's Sian Massey's and God knows I'm no admirer of Karren Brady
she used her column in the "Sun" to plie on the pressure, has played the agrieved party, has been quoted
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i asked the girls in the office what they thought about this, they said you could tell what sort of person Andy Gray is, none of them thought they should lose thier job because of it, they were not offended just put it down to blokish attitudes and blokish stupidity, for them it just proved that most blokes are inferior to women in terms of what is important, i think they are right
I bet you're the boss, aren't you?
guilty
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the fact that Brady who is a hideous specimen of the female had a big hand in this leaves me with no joy at all
How did she have a hand in it? Keys made a remark about her, she wasn't there. It's not her fault any more than it's Sian Massey's and God knows I'm no admirer of Karren Brady
she used her column in the "Sun" to plie on the pressure, has played the agrieved party, has been quoted
She was the aggrieved party, though.
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the fact that Brady who is a hideous specimen of the female had a big hand in this leaves me with no joy at all
How did she have a hand in it? Keys made a remark about her, she wasn't there. It's not her fault any more than it's Sian Massey's and God knows I'm no admirer of Karren Brady
she used her column in the "Sun" to plie on the pressure, has played the agrieved party, has been quoted
She was the aggrieved party, though.
Do me a favour love
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She is entitled to feel aggrieved, wouldn't you say? And entitled to have her say? We've all had our say, and we're totally irrelevant.
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She is entitled to feel aggrieved, wouldn't you say? And entitled to have her say? We've all had our say, and we're totally irrelevant.
see above
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Keys resigned. Even he knows he was in the wrong. And you're still trying to make a case for him.
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One thing I have noticed in the reportage of this event is that Andy Gray is always referred to as a 'former Everton striker'. I don't think I havr ever heard any reference to his Villa career, which I thought a bit weird for one of our most high profile former players.
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The Big Sam on Twitter continues to be one of the funniest things on that there internet.
heBig_Sam BigSam
Met Richard Keys for gazpacho earlier. The lad was in bits. Tears flowed like a Peruvian river, winding its way around a village of sadness.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
He looks awful. He hasn't shaved since it all kicked off. And that's a big thing for Keysy. He looks like Teen Wolf in a sports jacket.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
"What am I gonna do?!" he whimpered with big panda eyes. "What will become of me, oh Lord??"
TheBig_Sam BigSam
Didn't know if he was talking to me or God. He's never called me "Lord" before.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
I just held him close and tickled him. Big Sam is a powerful entity but I can't make all the bad things go away.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
The truth is, I fear for him. If he's not careful he'll be selling cubic zirconia on QVC with some perm-headed wench by the end of the year.
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One thing I have noticed in the reportage of this event is that Andy Gray is always referred to as a 'former Everton striker'. I don't think I havr ever heard any reference to his Villa career, which I thought a bit weird for one of our most high profile former players.
I'm pleased. He is dead to me (makes Tony Soprano-style cutting gesture)
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Keys resigned. Even he knows he was in the wrong. And you're still trying to make a case for him.
i am not trying to make a case for him, i am trying to make a point that what he said about Brady is a matter of interpretation, here is a media attention grabing tart who uses her so called celebrity status to spout her un informed and self promoting opinions who then spouts her self righteous indignation about a comment "do me a favour love" the hypocrisy of this odious woman knows no bounds. And by the way I have some knowledge about her and her dealings
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Keys resigned. Even he knows he was in the wrong. And you're still trying to make a case for him.
i am not trying to make a case for him, i am trying to make a point that what he said about Brady is a matter of interpretation, here is a media attention grabing tart who uses her so called celebrity status to spout her un informed and self promoting opinions who then spouts her self righteous indignation about a comment "do me a favour love" the hypocrisy of this odious woman knows no bounds. And by the way I have some knowledge about her and her dealings
What has any of that got to do with her being a woman, though?
And you casually throw in the term "tart" there - that's exactly the sort of thing she gets the hump with, and she's right to do so.
I don't like her either, but I don't feel that way about her because she's a woman. Some of the stuff that gets posted on here about her - slag this, slut that, fucking this player, fucking that one - is really cringemaking. Keysworthy.
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I think you may be letting your dislike of Karren Brady get in the way of the facts here. If he made an offensive remark about her - and Keys clearly accepts that it's offensive because he tried to apologise - then she's allowed to be offended.
There is no law that states that, just because he's sorry, she's not allowed to be pissed off.
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Keysworthy.
This new word has given me an idea. Can we have a word filter for 'banter' please? Everytime someone types it, it ought to read 'talking shit' or something. More suggestions please.
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The Big Sam on Twitter continues to be one of the funniest things on that there internet.
heBig_Sam BigSam
Met Richard Keys for gazpacho earlier. The lad was in bits. Tears flowed like a Peruvian river, winding its way around a village of sadness.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
He looks awful. He hasn't shaved since it all kicked off. And that's a big thing for Keysy. He looks like Teen Wolf in a sports jacket.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
"What am I gonna do?!" he whimpered with big panda eyes. "What will become of me, oh Lord??"
TheBig_Sam BigSam
Didn't know if he was talking to me or God. He's never called me "Lord" before.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
I just held him close and tickled him. Big Sam is a powerful entity but I can't make all the bad things go away.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
The truth is, I fear for him. If he's not careful he'll be selling cubic zirconia on QVC with some perm-headed wench by the end of the year.
I was about to post that up - he also added -
I was very clear with him about one thing though - if any leak should surface showing him being abusive to Natalie Sawyer, I'll destroy him.
I love Keysy & Andy, but any evidence they've besmirched that raven-haired angel and I'll create havoc with their world with fire and rage.
@nataliesawyer I'd do anything for you, my sweet princess. I am Costner to your Whitney Houston.
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There is no law that states that, just because he's sorry, she's not allowed to be pissed off.
Show me a woman that isn't pissed off with a man.
Woops.
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Keysworthy.
This new word has given me an idea. Can we have a word filter for 'banter' please? Everytime someone types it, it ought to read 'talking shit' or something. More suggestions please.
Why? There's nothing wrong with banter. The problem is that people use 'banter' as a substitute for bullying, teasing and abusing others whilst thinking they're clever and very funny. Banter is good humoured exchanges with no malice intended.
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I just listened to the Keys interview. He sounded even more of a wanker after the interview. As much as he tried to spin it and defend the aggrieved party the more you felt he was dying to scream, out "I haven't done anything wrong, birds shouldn't be in football". Talk about back peddaling very fast. Glad he and Gray are both gone.
And who the fuck are these mysterious "dark forces" he's on about? He really tried to make himself to be the victim and despite "apologising" just doesn't get what the big deal is. Just lads being lads, nothing wrong with that.
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Chances are most players would think twice about giving a verbal spray to a female lino for a contentious decision too. Positive discrimination? Maybe.
From personal experience I can confirm that is not the case at all. Most players are more likely to give you a spray because you are female and sometimes you have no choice but to flash the yellow or red as some players' IQ's don't justify you giving them credit for intelligence and trying a word on the run warning.
Maybe.
Do you run the line at parks football or the professional game? Parks players always believe they can get away with murder (though the fines obviously sting a bit more). They don't have the full glare of the TV and written media to contend with.
Would an odious little individual like Ashley Cole want to dent his reputation further by being seen to swear and curse at a female lineswoman/ assistant? He might not be bothered, but there's a chance he'd be more tempted to hold his tongue, for fear of the publicity it would generate.
'He's only winding his neck in because it's a female lineswoman, if it was a bloke he wouldn't care' would be the positive discrimination at play there. But again, if it ends with the result of him and others being less twattish, it could only be a good thing surely.
Wow, this thread has grown a tad since I last looked at it! We had a public holiday yesterday here in Aus and I was too busy having a good time to log on!
I've lined on the top level of men's football in NSW which is televised for highlights as opposed to live broadcast. I haven't recently, but I am not confined to park football.
It seems that players don't give a flying you know what whether cameras are there, maybe it's the generations nowadays, but it could also be the fact that our governing bodies don't take appropriate action when abuse to officials happen.
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Only managed 25 mins of the interview so far. And so far he's sounded okay if just a bit miffed about losing the best job he'll get in football.
He's certainly full of himself. And what he'd done.
I agree about "dark forces" - somebody with a grudge is releasing these clips and you have to ask why?
I think his comments about Brady can be defended. Most of us don't like her either and it's nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.
I've stepped back from the "hang 'em both" to being bewildered that experienced, mature, professionals can make idiotic comments re a woman's ability to understand offside.
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This has shown what a staggering ability we have in this country to get the wrong end of the stick.
As part of the Big Society I suggest the government make it compulsary for every house to have a dictionary, then maybe, having learnt the meaning of "context" "tone" "responsbility" "bigot" "sexism" and "professionalism", more informed comment could be made.
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Only managed 25 mins of the interview so far. And so far he's sounded okay if just a bit miffed about losing the best job he'll get in football.
I think it's the second 25 minutes which is the really cringeworthy bit.
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I agree about "dark forces" - somebody with a grudge is releasing these clips and you have to ask why?
From reading The Guardian report on this yesterady it appears that these aren't isolated incidents and that they were regarded as bullies by many of the production staff. I think they just waited for an opportunity to present itself and taken full advanatge.
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I agree about "dark forces" - somebody with a grudge is releasing these clips and you have to ask why?
From reading The Guardian report on this yesterady it appears that these aren't isolated incidents and that they were regarded as bullies by many of the production staff. I think they just waited for an opportunity to present itself and taken full advanatge.
If true, then it makes sense as to why Gray was given the sack.
If he's been acting like a ****** for some time, then this was an excellent opportunity.
Spoke to my Cousin in Spain yesterday, she used to go out with him in the 70's and said he was one of the most sexist people you could ever meet.
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From reading The Guardian report on this yesterady it appears that these aren't isolated incidents and that they were regarded as bullies by many of the production staff. I think they just waited for an opportunity to present itself and taken full advanatge.
Knowing a few current and ex-Sky employees, I'd say this is certainly the case. Keys and Gray were pretty universally despised.
And fair play to the production staff who blew the lid too. It takes balls of steel to risk their jobs in order to blow the whistle in the way they did. With the systematic leaking, you could tell they had planned this out.
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Keysworthy.
This new word has given me an idea. Can we have a word filter for 'banter' please? Everytime someone types it, it ought to read 'talking shit' or something. More suggestions please.
Why? There's nothing wrong with banter. The problem is that people use 'banter' as a substitute for bullying, teasing and abusing others whilst thinking they're clever and very funny. Banter is good humoured exchanges with no malice intended.
I'm just sick of reading and hearing it. Its an attempt at a get out clause for massive wankers.
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Dark forces is a touch on the dramatic side. I'd guess that there are a number of production staff who have been spoken to like shit over the years who saw the chance to leak footage they knew would cause trouble; that footage could only have come from Sky.
I'm not feeling too sorry for either of them, though I do think Gray has been pretty good over the years. Keys is a reasonable anchorman, no more. They've both had 15-20 years of earning big money though. ESPN will probably snap them both up in a year.
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Dark forces is a touch on the dramatic side. I'd guess that there are a number of production staff who have been spoken to like shit over the years who saw the chance to leak footage they knew would cause trouble; that footage could only have come from Sky.
And there are probably a lot of low-salaried people with access to that audio, one of whom has just doubled the value of his savings account.
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Absolutely, don't doubt that. If the two were becoming a problem within Sky, this has been the perfect opportunity to nudge both out of the door.
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Only managed 25 mins of the interview so far. And so far he's sounded okay if just a bit miffed about losing the best job he'll get in football.
He's certainly full of himself. And what he'd done.
I agree about "dark forces" - somebody with a grudge is releasing these clips and you have to ask why?
I think his comments about Brady can be defended. Most of us don't like her either and it's nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.
I've stepped back from the "hang 'em both" to being bewildered that experienced, mature, professionals can make idiotic comments re a woman's ability to understand offside.
The best post on here yet.
I think the pair of them just took it all for granted, easily done after 20 years in a great job I guess.
Bring on Redknapp now, he's far more PC.
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Only managed 25 mins of the interview so far. And so far he's sounded okay if just a bit miffed about losing the best job he'll get in football.
He's certainly full of himself. And what he'd done.
I agree about "dark forces" - somebody with a grudge is releasing these clips and you have to ask why?
I think his comments about Brady can be defended. Most of us don't like her either and it's nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.
I've stepped back from the "hang 'em both" to being bewildered that experienced, mature, professionals can make idiotic comments re a woman's ability to understand offside.
The best post on here yet.
I think the pair of them just took it all for granted, easily done after 20 years in a great job I guess.
Bring on Redknapp now, he's far more PC.
If being PC means not being a tosser, then yes.
And I do agree, they both took their job for granted, which I think also reflects on Skys attitude to football fans too. Hooked like a heroin user!
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I think a broadcaster looking to establish itself in the marketplace, like ESPN, will avoid them like the plague. I hope so, anyway.
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And I do agree, they both took their job for granted, which I think also reflects on Skys attitude to football fans too. Hooked like a heroin user!
It's football we're hooked on though, do not forget !
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It's no just the salary they'll miss, it's all the freebies and invites to dinners that come with a job of that distinction.
I think they'll be round BFR's when the PFA Awards are on this year, as Ron cracks open the pomagne and they can blame everyone else because life isn't fair.
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Andy Gray, speechless.
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Neither had the wit to realise that it is the football that is popular, not them. They thought a big audience reflected on them when most of us would watch it if it was fronted by Martin Bormann.
or even you ;)
*smashes Sky box to bits just in case*
*forces grin and pretends it is just 'banter'*
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the ironic thing for me is that, based on what many othes claimed to have happened over the years, Keys and Gray were the actual "dark forces" at Sky. It is a case of piling on for some now that they've been exposed, but I'm sure it's no different to the piling on "the lads" did on innocent parties throughout their Sky years.
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Spoke to my Cousin in Spain yesterday, she used to go out with him in the 70's and said he was one of the most sexist people you could ever meet.
Well, so what? What's wrong with bein' sexy?
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I note with amusement that Nuts magazine are condemning Richard Keys for using the phrase "lads mag humour" to defend his comments. Add that to the completely out-of-context picture of Sian Massey on the front of Tuesday's Sun.
The media is eating itself.
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It will be interesting to see what happens next at Sky. They cover other sports, cricket and rugby for example, in an intelligent, informative and entertaining way. I just hope they are able to bring the same values to football rather than just serve up more of the same.
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Andy Gray when signing for wolves in 1980. "I'd like to finish my career at molineux...... " , Oh the irony.
Quoted from twitter!
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Well, so what? What's wrong with bein' sexy?
About 40 years ago, someone told me I was sexy. Unfortunately it was a 40-year old bloke telling me this, so wasn't greatly appreciated. Didn't know when I was well off!
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It's not the video clip as much as the comments underneath that Keys might be most interested in
I hope he's seen this and dosent get offended by the "banter"
What goes around...
Smashing!
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If being PC means not being a tosser, then yes.
Adrian Chiles is PC so I don't think it does.
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It will be interesting to see what happens next at Sky. They cover other sports, cricket and rugby for example, in an intelligent, informative and entertaining way. I just hope they are able to bring the same values to football rather than just serve up more of the same.
I too am wondering this.
When BFR had his moment of doom, it was fairly easy to write him out of ITV's history given his role. Richard Keys and Andy Gray are so much more than that though - they're essentially the embodiment of post-1992 football. Almost every significant moment in Premier League history has the voice of one or the other of them on the clip. Watching the Premiership Years in the summer months is going to be a little odder now.
But regardless of the views that got them fired, they've looked out of place for some time, like some irreplaceable boys' club. It would be nice if Sky's entire football coverage got shaken up in the aftermath of this. Highly unlikely I know mid-season, and I suspect Jeff Stelling (by far the best broadcaster Sky Sports has offered in the last ten years) will step up and fill the role of Keys, while - God help us - Jamie Redknapp will take Gray's place.
But next season, wouldn't it be great to take a more intelligent approach? Sky can look in-house for how well they are capable of broadcasting, notably their cricket coverage, with David Gower presenting, and Atherton, Botham, Lloyd, Hussain and Holding providing something for everyone. It's intelligent stuff - not excessively highbrow, though also not pandering to the lowest common denominator as Sky's football coverage so often does. It would be nice to see the football take a similar direction. I don't think Stelling will become the main anchor - I think his current workload would prevent it - but I listen to the Guardian football podcast regularly and hear James Richardson on there. As much as the podcast wouldn't be the same without him, he really is wasted in that role. Sky should bring him in and give him free rein, and surround him with higher calibre pundits than we're currently subjected to.
I hope that Sky surprise us with a new direction. I'm not counting on it, though.
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The Big Sam on Twitter continues to be one of the funniest things on that there internet.
heBig_Sam BigSam
Met Richard Keys for gazpacho earlier. The lad was in bits. Tears flowed like a Peruvian river, winding its way around a village of sadness.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
He looks awful. He hasn't shaved since it all kicked off. And that's a big thing for Keysy. He looks like Teen Wolf in a sports jacket.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
"What am I gonna do?!" he whimpered with big panda eyes. "What will become of me, oh Lord??"
TheBig_Sam BigSam
Didn't know if he was talking to me or God. He's never called me "Lord" before.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
I just held him close and tickled him. Big Sam is a powerful entity but I can't make all the bad things go away.
TheBig_Sam BigSam
The truth is, I fear for him. If he's not careful he'll be selling cubic zirconia on QVC with some perm-headed wench by the end of the year.
funny
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I can't wait to see their '20th year anniversary' special.
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It will be interesting to see what happens next at Sky. They cover other sports, cricket and rugby for example, in an intelligent, informative and entertaining way. I just hope they are able to bring the same values to football rather than just serve up more of the same.
I too am wondering this.
When BFR had his moment of doom, it was fairly easy to write him out of ITV's history given his role. Richard Keys and Andy Gray are so much more than that though - they're essentially the embodiment of post-1992 football. Almost every significant moment in Premier League history has the voice of one or the other of them on the clip. Watching the Premiership Years in the summer months is going to be a little odder now.
But regardless of the views that got them fired, they've looked out of place for some time, like some irreplaceable boys' club. It would be nice if Sky's entire football coverage got shaken up in the aftermath of this. Highly unlikely I know mid-season, and I suspect Jeff Stelling (by far the best broadcaster Sky Sports has offered in the last ten years) will step up and fill the role of Keys, while - God help us - Jamie Redknapp will take Gray's place.
But next season, wouldn't it be great to take a more intelligent approach? Sky can look in-house for how well they are capable of broadcasting, notably their cricket coverage, with David Gower presenting, and Atherton, Botham, Lloyd, Hussain and Holding providing something for everyone. It's intelligent stuff - not excessively highbrow, though also not pandering to the lowest common denominator as Sky's football coverage so often does. It would be nice to see the football take a similar direction. I don't think Stelling will become the main anchor - I think his current workload would prevent it - but I listen to the Guardian football podcast regularly and hear James Richardson on there. As much as the podcast wouldn't be the same without him, he really is wasted in that role. Sky should bring him in and give him free rein, and surround him with higher calibre pundits than we're currently subjected to.
I hope that Sky surprise us with a new direction. I'm not counting on it, though.
I couldn't care less if they got Keith Chegwin and Anthea Turner to present their football coverage.. If there's a game on that I want to watch then I'll watch it irrespective of the presenter. I think that applies for most people.
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Even if it was John Barnes?
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I couldn't care less if they got Keith Chegwin and Anthea Turner to present their football coverage.. If there's a game on that I want to watch then I'll watch it irrespective of the presenter. I think that applies for most people.
e.g. I still watch England games on ITV despite Adrian "Tight Jumper" Chiles getting the gig.
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I don't get to watch much 'live' football on tv but if it's a match I want to watch I don't tune in to see who the presenters/commentators/summarisers are before deciding whether to watch it, to be honest I watch the 90 minutes of football and never bother with any of the padding that comes with it.
Gray and Keys going will have no effect whatsoever on the viewing figures.
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Even if it was John Barnes?
That is taking it a bit too far, you will be telling us he is a rapper next...
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I'm no fan of hers but I did like her response.
from theguardian.co.uk
He said Brady had refused to pick up the phone when he tried to call to apologise, claiming that it may have been a tactic to keep her club off the back pages.
Brady responded tonight: "Perhaps Richard thought I was too busy making the tea and washing up to take his call but a cursory glance at the weekend's newspapers or television would have made him well aware that I was heavily occupied with the West Ham and Newham Council Olympic Stadium bid."
"West Ham's future in the Olympic Stadium is of far more significance to me than his future. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to add insult to injury today by suggesting that this incident has done me a favour by getting West Ham out of the press, as after all I did not ask to be part of his sexist tirade.
"This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur."
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A good response from Brady there.
I understand the point that people will watch football however its covered, however you just need to read the opinions on ITV's coverage over the last 20 years or so to understand why it's an interesting subject.
(For the record, I thought ITV's World Cup coverage was far superior to the BBC's, which must be the first time ever)
In addition - just saw this tweet from the Grauniad:
Major - and boy do I mean it - football exclusive coming up on guardian.co.uk sometime around 5.30.
Keys/Gray related maybe? The Guardian aren't usually taken to hyperbole in the way the red-tops are.
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It will be something crap.
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Booooo, don't spoil the fun.
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Olympic stadium related I reckon.
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I'm no fan of hers but I did like her response.
from theguardian.co.uk
He said Brady had refused to pick up the phone when he tried to call to apologise, claiming that it may have been a tactic to keep her club off the back pages.
Brady responded tonight: "Perhaps Richard thought I was too busy making the tea and washing up to take his call but a cursory glance at the weekend's newspapers or television would have made him well aware that I was heavily occupied with the West Ham and Newham Council Olympic Stadium bid."
"West Ham's future in the Olympic Stadium is of far more significance to me than his future. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to add insult to injury today by suggesting that this incident has done me a favour by getting West Ham out of the press, as after all I did not ask to be part of his sexist tirade.
"This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur."
I can't see much to like about that. Just typical spiteful crap. She's got where she is because she's a woman rather than in spite of it.
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I'm no fan of hers but I did like her response.
from theguardian.co.uk
He said Brady had refused to pick up the phone when he tried to call to apologise, claiming that it may have been a tactic to keep her club off the back pages.
Brady responded tonight: "Perhaps Richard thought I was too busy making the tea and washing up to take his call but a cursory glance at the weekend's newspapers or television would have made him well aware that I was heavily occupied with the West Ham and Newham Council Olympic Stadium bid."
"West Ham's future in the Olympic Stadium is of far more significance to me than his future. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to add insult to injury today by suggesting that this incident has done me a favour by getting West Ham out of the press, as after all I did not ask to be part of his sexist tirade.
"This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur."
I can't see much to like about that. Just typical spiteful crap. She's got where she is because she's a woman rather than in spite of it.
No, of course you can't. Spiteful? If it were do you not think it's justified?
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
MON would be WHU manager now if it was'nt for her ineptitude.
Tickets fiasco whilst at SHA, charging supporters for the away club, vile person,arrogant , ignorant, why is she held in such high esteem..
Did;nt like Keys, but he was right about her.
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
MON would be WHU manager now if it was'nt for her ineptitude.
Tickets fiasco whilst at SHA, charging supporters for the away club, vile person,arrogant , ignorant, why is she held in such high esteem..
Did;nt like Keys, but he was right about her.
Oooooooo that's controversial on here.
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
MON would be WHU manager now if it was'nt for her ineptitude.
Tickets fiasco whilst at SHA, charging supporters for the away club, vile person,arrogant , ignorant, why is she held in such high esteem..
Did;nt like Keys, but he was right about her.
Oooooooo that's controversial on here.
Very eloquently put though. Almost makes me want to defend her. Almost.
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I really dislike her use of "dinosaur" as an adjective.
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I really dislike her use of "dinosaur" as an adjective.
Yes, she was doing so well up until that point.
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I'm no fan of hers but I did like her response.
from theguardian.co.uk
He said Brady had refused to pick up the phone when he tried to call to apologise, claiming that it may have been a tactic to keep her club off the back pages.
Brady responded tonight: "Perhaps Richard thought I was too busy making the tea and washing up to take his call but a cursory glance at the weekend's newspapers or television would have made him well aware that I was heavily occupied with the West Ham and Newham Council Olympic Stadium bid."
"West Ham's future in the Olympic Stadium is of far more significance to me than his future. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to add insult to injury today by suggesting that this incident has done me a favour by getting West Ham out of the press, as after all I did not ask to be part of his sexist tirade.
"This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur."
I can't see much to like about that. Just typical spiteful crap. She's got where she is because she's a woman rather than in spite of it.
No, of course you can't. Spiteful? If it were do you not think it's justified?
It's spiteful because she's enjoying every second of pouring further petrol on Key's already incinerated career when he didn't really cause her any damage in the first place.
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It's spiteful because she's enjoying every second of pouring further petrol on Key's already incinerated career when he didn't really cause her any damage in the first place.
Err, Richard Keys comments at the weekend. Ring any bells what old monkey man said?
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It's spiteful because she's enjoying every second of pouring further petrol on Key's already incinerated career when he didn't really cause her any damage in the first place.
Err, Richard Keys comments at the weekend. Ring any bells what old monkey man said?
"Do me a favour love?" As if she could have cared less.
I don't think anyones ever been particularly bothered about the thoughts of Richard Keys or "monkey man", which is actually a far more hurtful comment than anything Keys said about Brady.
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"monkey man", which is actually a far more hurtful comment than anything Keys said about Brady.
You're right. I apologise to all monkeys.
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"monkey man", which is actually a far more hurtful comment than anything Keys said about Brady.
You're right. I apologise to all monkeys.
Nice one!
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I'm no fan of hers but I did like her response.
from theguardian.co.uk
He said Brady had refused to pick up the phone when he tried to call to apologise, claiming that it may have been a tactic to keep her club off the back pages.
Brady responded tonight: "Perhaps Richard thought I was too busy making the tea and washing up to take his call but a cursory glance at the weekend's newspapers or television would have made him well aware that I was heavily occupied with the West Ham and Newham Council Olympic Stadium bid."
"West Ham's future in the Olympic Stadium is of far more significance to me than his future. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to add insult to injury today by suggesting that this incident has done me a favour by getting West Ham out of the press, as after all I did not ask to be part of his sexist tirade.
"This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur."
You might wonder how she's found the time to talk to the media twice about this incident already when she is so busy.
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Andy Gray, speechless.
A classic moment. Gray was quite gutted after the blatant bias he showed Everton during that game.
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
So useless that people keep employing her at large salaries?
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
MON would be WHU manager now if it was'nt for her ineptitude.
Tickets fiasco whilst at SHA, charging supporters for the away club, vile person,arrogant , ignorant, why is she held in such high esteem..
Did;nt like Keys, but he was right about her.
Oooooooo that's controversial on here.
i think he was right too. And besides, his comments were in response to Brady saying that WHU only got bad coverage because she was a woman! Yeah, do me a favour love.
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sanity on here at last
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Trust Brady to stick the knife in. Vile woman, but at least she's a champion of anti-sexism (so she tells us in her weekly column in the Sun whilst earning her monthly wage from Sullivan and Gold's porn business)
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Vile person, who is useless at her job.
So useless that people keep employing her at large salaries?
The same couple of people to be honest. And as she was arrested while doing that large salaried job, I'm not sure that honest is the most apt word.
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My knowledge of Karren Brady's limited to what's on here and in the media. Our paths are unlikely to cross though she's not someone I'd choose to mix with, and expect her opinion of women like me means the feeling's mutual. It's when the criticism of her is 'she's a slag/ugly/name calling only' with no substance that I feel ever so slightly defensive of her.
Anyway, having said all that, and hindsight being a wonderful thing, I think it was unwise of Sky to focus so much on Andy Gray and Richard Keys as presenters over the years. They're not indispensible, they'd have had to retire at some time, what would Sky have done if one of them had died? Richard Keys talking about 'Dark Forces'. Sorry, important as football is, this just smacked as self promotion to me.
Can't help but wondering if this is an example of there's no such thing as bad publicity. Sky will be able to announce the new presenters in a blaze of publicity, and they're certainly being talked about a lot lately.
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Trust Brady to stick the knife in. Vile woman, but at least she's a champion of anti-sexism (so she tells us in her weekly column in the Sun whilst earning her monthly wage from Sullivan and Gold's porn business)
I wonder If shes watched Come play with me ...
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Promote Kammy!!
That would be unbelievable.
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Mrs Keys has her say. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351075/Richard-Keys-wife-Julia-speaks-Sky-Sports-sexism-scandal.html)
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Her indignation is sickening. The self promoting shit. Its very hard to back her womens lib views when she works for folks who pay big money to show a prebubescent girls tits in the paper.
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There's a good chance Brady would have given her opinion and been asked her opinion on this issue, even if she'd not been patronised by Keys personally. As one of the few women in a senior position in football she's more than entitled to her say. A lot of what she says and does leaves me cold but on this, she's bang on. I don't know whether it's equal pay and conditions in the porn industry, but I'd hope men and women would be judged and valued on their performance and abilities with less prejudice than a studio with Gray and Keys looking on.
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Mrs Keys has her say. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351075/Richard-Keys-wife-Julia-speaks-Sky-Sports-sexism-scandal.html)
Richard Keys daughter - would you smash it?
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Mrs Keys has her say. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351075/Richard-Keys-wife-Julia-speaks-Sky-Sports-sexism-scandal.html)
Richard Keys daughter - would you smash it?
Into next week. And any bloke who says otherwise isn't living in the real world, etc.
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Looks like they may have the last laugh as Al Jazerra are set to offer them both jobs. Probably earn more than they did at Sky and can't see the Arabs moaning about sexism.
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Mrs Keys has her say. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351075/Richard-Keys-wife-Julia-speaks-Sky-Sports-sexism-scandal.html)
Richard Keys daughter - would you smash it?
Hell yeah!!
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I can't stand Karren Brady, but her being a woman has nothing to do with it.
And if she wants to stick the boot in, she's well entitled
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Mrs Keys has her say. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351075/Richard-Keys-wife-Julia-speaks-Sky-Sports-sexism-scandal.html)
How very appropriate for the article to feature a picture of her serving tea. Normal day at the Keys residence then. She'll be off to do the laundry next, before making dinner, shaving her hubby's back before she's dragged by her hair upstairs.
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How very appropriate for the article to feature a picture of her serving tea. Normal day at the Keys residence then. She'll be off to do the laundry next, before making dinner, shaving her hubby's back before she's dragged by her hair upstairs.
What's your point?
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How very appropriate for the article to feature a picture of her serving tea. Normal day at the Keys residence then. She'll be off to do the laundry next, before making dinner, shaving her hubby's back before she's dragged by her hair upstairs.
What's your point?
Am I trying to make one?
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I think Brady uses her 'femininity' to her advantage when she gets the opportunity.
I also think she is two people - nice on the face of it, but a nasty person in reality.
My Mrs lives around the corner from her, she is not overly liked in Dorridge - but then, what does she care - rhino skin of a person.
I hope this passes soon and we can get on with enjoying Sky football without this bollox going on.
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Her indignation is sickening. The self promoting shit. Its very hard to back her womens lib views when she works for folks who pay big money to show a prebubescent girls tits in the paper.
Pre-pubescent girls tits?
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I think Brady uses her 'femininity' to her advantage when she gets the opportunity.
I also think she is two people - nice on the face of it, but a nasty person in reality.
My Mrs lives around the corner from her, she is not overly liked in Dorridge - but then, what does she care - rhino skin of a person.
I hope this passes soon and we can get on with enjoying Sky football without this bollox going on.
What has your missus done to upset everyone in Dorridge?
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I think Brady uses her 'femininity' to her advantage when she gets the opportunity.
I also think she is two people - nice on the face of it, but a nasty person in reality.
My Mrs lives around the corner from her, she is not overly liked in Dorridge - but then, what does she care - rhino skin of a person.
I hope this passes soon and we can get on with enjoying Sky football without this bollox going on.
What has your missus done to upset everyone in Dorridge?
Quite a lot I hope, they're very high on the 'snob-ometer' !
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What has your missus done to upset everyone in Dorridge?
Did she have evil thoughts of moving to Knowle?
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Her indignation is sickening. The self promoting shit. Its very hard to back her womens lib views when she works for folks who pay big money to show a prebubescent girls tits in the paper.
Pre-pubescent girls tits?
Is cheltenham Gary Glitter?
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/TULKtxQDsjI/AAAAAAAAS0M/DaRRorZMqX4/s400/women.jpg)
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I think Brady uses her 'femininity' to her advantage when she gets the opportunity.
I also think she is two people - nice on the face of it, but a nasty person in reality.
My Mrs lives around the corner from her, she is not overly liked in Dorridge - but then, what does she care - rhino skin of a person.
I hope this passes soon and we can get on with enjoying Sky football without this bollox going on.
What has your missus done to upset everyone in Dorridge?
Quite a lot I hope, they're very high on the 'snob-ometer' !
Unlike Knowle, of course.
I have to say the people I know in Knowle and Dorridge really don't have much to say about Brady. Some friends lived next door to her until about 18 months ago but never really had a bad word to say about her.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/TULKtxQDsjI/AAAAAAAAS0M/DaRRorZMqX4/s400/women.jpg)
That made me laugh.
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"For Sale : 1 massive fucking iPad . Comes pre installed with shit tactics software. Now surplus to requirements £10000 . Contact andy.gray@skysports.com no timewasters...or women."
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I presume there will be no soccerette on Soccer AM tomorrow?
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This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!
Please please please please please can stupid people in the public eye stop trying to make themselves sound more intelligent and more important by replacing "I" with "myself" when they're trying to make a point?
Otherwise, I generally agree with her.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/TULKtxQDsjI/AAAAAAAAS0M/DaRRorZMqX4/s400/women.jpg)
That made me laugh.
Should be a pink Henrietta though!
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http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8750_6702311,00.html
I would like Chris Kamara to replace Gray - his enthusiasm is infectious - his moustache something else !
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I presume there will be no soccerette on Soccer AM tomorrow?
Nope they are making her do star jumps in hot pants. No irony there.
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No irony
An iron perhaps ?
AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO'T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTTEER BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE.
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http://www.birminghampost.net/news/newsaggregator//tm_headline=andy-gray-could-take-sky-sports-to-tribunal-claim-legal-experts%26method=full%26objectid=28073693%26siteid=65233-name_page.html
Keys should have waited to be sacked.
I reckon this will cost Sky a few mill out of court.
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This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!
Please please please please please can stupid people in the public eye stop trying to make themselves sound more intelligent and more important by replacing "I" with "myself" when they're trying to make a point?
Otherwise, I generally agree with her.
I'm pretty sure 'dinosaur' isn't an adjective either. Prehistoric maybe.
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This is not about an apology to me, but about an apology to all women. Richard represents views that myself and those who work in the business of football find totally dinosaur.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!
Please please please please please can stupid people in the public eye stop trying to make themselves sound more intelligent and more important by replacing "I" with "myself" when they're trying to make a point?
Otherwise, I generally agree with her.
I'm pretty sure 'dinosaur' isn't an adjective either. Prehistoric maybe.
I did notice that, but I can ignore it as it's a careless mistake made by someone rambling on. The replacement of I with myself is a more systematic and ever increasing error made in interviews and on the radio.
If you listen to TalkSport, someone will do it at least once per hour. Danny Kelly, an otherwise decent vj, is one of the worst culprits.
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I see Redknapp's ex has emerged to sniff around for cash. Consulting lawyers apparently.
Everyone seems to be consulting lawyers this week.
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And for those who thought Gray was at least a decent pundit, this from the Guardian's secret footballer might give you reason for thought:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits
There's some really interesting stuff in there about the way modern football works as well. Kind of makes you wonder how MON did as well as he did, given his aversion to training.
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Never found Gray particularly insightful as a pundit, and his artificial attempts in latter years to generate a bit of drama by growling more were particularly off-putting. As were the occasional Talksport-like spats with his hairy friend Cornelius.
Compare and contrast with someone like Shane Warne who- despite also being a bit of a tool- often has something interesting to say, a different slant on accepted cricket wisdom.
You watch for the sport primarily, that's one thing by the sounds of it Gray and Keys never cottoned on to. But a decent pundit/ expert can enhance the experience.
Gray, Keys, Hansen, Lawro, Lineker and co definitely don't. Their analysis often sounds like clubhouse banter, as if you've unwittingly stumbled across the golfing weekend from hell. Pile of wank.
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Amen, KG.
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Never found Gray particularly insightful as a pundit
And quite often called refereeing decisions wrong. Didn't seem to have the greatest grasp of the rules, did the Scottish Sid the Sexist.
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This saga to me is reminiscent of the Andy Coulson/Conservative Party recent whatever it was was upset. Once the commentators/communications director become more prominent than the subject matter, maybe it's time to move on. I've made more contributions to this thread than is healthy, but the fact that we're discussing Gray/Keys rather than matches, kind of sums up how Sky has intentionally or otherwise manipulated public thinking.
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I like the analisys side of the game, occaisinally you get a pundit with some level of insight< Hoddle sometimes manages it, match of the day before sky used to do some stuff, the biggest idiot though has to be Jamie Rednapp, he has absoloutely no idea
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Why were some moronic Villa fans singing for Andy Gray today? Oh, I've answered my own question.
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Never found Gray particularly insightful as a pundit
And quite often called refereeing decisions wrong. Didn't seem to have the greatest grasp of the rules, did the Scottish Sid the Sexist.
It wouldn't be right if commentators did call refereeing decisions correctly, it would give us nothing to whinge and complain about.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
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Do you think Gray is now sitting at home with a massive screen. Looking at tactics "off" the pitch. And trying to analise where he went wrong. Would be interesting viewing ......
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Never found Gray particularly insightful as a pundit
And quite often called refereeing decisions wrong. Didn't seem to have the greatest grasp of the rules, did the Scottish Sid the Sexist.
made me laugh really out loud !! excellent Ger Regan
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I saw that on the news yesterday, it was not even said off-camera either.
Perhaps there are no dark forces at the BBC wanting them out, sack them for being smug fuckers not just racist ones.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I saw that on the news yesterday, it was not even said off-camera either.
Perhaps there are no dark forces at the BBC wanting them out, sack them for being smug fuckers not just racist ones.
I can't stand old poodle head Clarkson but amazingly he's not the one I hate the most on that programme (which I very rarely happen to see), his dwarf like 'comedy' sidekick brings out violent urges in me.
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Hammond looks a bit mentally unstable if you ask me, he's never been right since he had that accident.
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Hammond looks a bit mentally unstable if you ask me, he's never been right since he had that accident.
It was just up the road from me. I was never questioned about the 'accident'.
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Hammond looks a bit mentally unstable if you ask me, he's never been right since he had that accident.
It has certainly had an impact on him.
His dress sense is terrible, that hideous necklace thing and those full length leather jackets, combined with the 80s soft rock hairstyle ... what a look.
It has also made him an even more irritating twat than he was before.
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who do you think would win in a fight between a poodle and a hamster ?
I'm hoping for a DEAD heat !
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Hammond looks a bit mentally unstable if you ask me, he's never been right since he had that accident.
It has certainly had an impact on him.
His dress sense is terrible, that hideous necklace thing and those full length leather jackets, combined with the 80s soft rock hairstyle ... what a look.
It has also made him an even more irritating twat than he was before.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Stewart Lee's routine about Top Gear is really superb.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Stewart Lee's routine about Top Gear is really superb.
Marvellous.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
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Where is the line drawn... any generic "comedic" comments can be taken out of context. We'll be banning a lot of comedy if this is the case, let alone giving people like Frankie Boyle their own TV shows.
Although, as soon as he said it it was obvious it was going to draw comparisons with the comments from Gray and Monkeychops.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
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I like Top Gear, it is mindless entertainment, and Nev you hit the nail with the context and the meaning behind the comments. People can poke easy fun at the 3 that present Top Gear and call for their sacking for saying outrageous things, but every stand up comic in the country will be finished if you start sacking people for making jokes at the expense of others. The difference is Gray and Keys believed what they were saying was true, it was vindictive. Completely different to the comments made on Top Gear.
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I like Top Gear as well. I do wonder if we are becoming a nation that likes to be offended by the slightest thing.
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I like Top Gear as well. I do wonder if we are becoming a nation that likes to be offended by the slightest thing.
How dare you? Handbags at 8 paces.
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Louis Vitton or Dolce Gabana?
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I like Top Gear as well. I do wonder if we are becoming a nation that likes to be offended by the slightest thing.
I'm not offended by Top Gear I just think that the 3 who present it are a bunch of boorish, smug, unfunny wankers.
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Louis Vitton or Dolce Gabana?
Radley's.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters').
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Louis Vitton or Dolce Gabana?
Radley's.
Good choice, Legion.
-
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters').
History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.
But your original point was regarding the relative lack of fuss for the Top Gear incident in comparison to Keys/Gray and that is purely down to the context.
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Louis Vitton or Dolce Gabana?
Radley's.
Good choice, Legion.
Boo?
-
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters').
History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.
Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be.
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Should Stephen Fry and whoever was on QI for the programme that upset the Japanese be sacked then?
Clicky (http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2011/02/04/12697/fry_scraps_japan_trip_after_qi_threats)
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Steve Coogan has had his say (http://tinyurl.com/6g26yfq)
Spot on, it seems to me.
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When it comes to Top Gear, I'm with Stewart Lee.
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On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters').
History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.
Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be.
The point of my post was to try and point out why the Top gear presenters thought it acceptable to make jokes at the expense of the Mexicans and not Jews or Pakistani's, Coogans article puts it better than I ever could.
-
On a related point, why hasn't the BBC sacked Clarkson and his pair of poodles from Top Gear, for making racist jibes against Mexicans? How come it's been relatively overlooked in the media? Is it because it's impossible to be racist against Mexicans? Can the government issue a list of nationalities we can perpetuate stereotypes about, please, because I'm getting confused. I'm pretty sure I'd be hanged if I applied what they said to Jamaicans, for example, but I think Eskimos and the Welsh are fair game. I'm not sure. Can anyone help?
I'm pretty certain Clarkson and Top Gear make money for the BBC. While he's useful, they'll keep him around.
Too true, plus the fact that it was said in a different context and as such a defence, if needed, could be launched.
This is the biggest issue surrounding the whole thing. What Keys and Gray said, despite what some may claim was utterly serious. It wasn't jovial or humorous, it was 2 blokes bemoaning the fact that women were involved in officiating football matches.
Top Gear is a light hearted entertainment show that is not meant to be taken seriously, including comments therein. The same applies to the Soccerette on Sky, the claptap spouted on Loose Women etc etc.
There is a marked difference. Thats why Gray and Keys are out of a job and Hammond isn't.
Just for the record, I can't abide Top Gear or the wankers who are on it.
Yes, Nev, I'm perfectly aware of the context. Would we still be dismissing it as just a harmless joke within the context of a lighthearted programme if they were referring to, say, Pakistanis? Personally, I'm not offended by what they say. Neither was I offended by Gray and Keys' comments. But either you're perfectly okey-dokey to perpetuate stereotypical rubbish about people of all nationalities or you're not. Now, which is it? Why are some nationalities fair game, and others a big no-no? I'm genuinely stumped by it (apologies to all 'unidexters').
History and culture would appear to influence our senistivity to this sort of "humour". I'm sure Jewish jokes would be considered pretty off-colour in many coutries. The mexican stereotype wouldn't go down well in parts of the U.S just as "Paki" jokes wouldn't here. The British have historically stereotyped the Irish, yet within Ireland stereotypes exist from county to county.
Isn't Top Gear shown all over the world? I was under the impression that it was wrong to perpetuate lazy stereotypes about all nationalities, not just certain ones depending on where you live. Surely that would imply that you shouldn't say certain things because of who might be offended, and not because it's just plain wrong. The sooner the government issues the list of who we can and can't belittle in this country, the safer all our jobs will be.
The point of my post was to try and point out why the Top gear presenters thought it acceptable to make jokes at the expense of the Mexicans and not Jews or Pakistani's, Coogans article puts it better than I ever could.
I'm sorry, I got the impression you were condoning their comments because they were said jokingly, on a lighthearted entertainment programme. I agree with Coogan. And I think it's either wrong to take the piss out of all nationalities and ethnicities, or they are all fair game. The fact that some are out of bounds because they are either on our doorstep, or they would kick up a mighty fuss, smacks of hypocrisy. Give the French stick, persist in using the phrase 'Argies', but never say anything rude about Jamaicans or repeat unpleasant remarks about 'Pakis', because you'll find yourself in much bigger trouble than if you'd said women don't understand the offside rule.
What I found offensive about their comments wasn't the comments themselves. It was the fact they knew they could get away with making them - but you knew they wouldn't dare say anything about certain other nationalities or ethnic groups. Clarkson, Hammond and May know perfectly well how to pick their targets, but they are untouchable because they make the BBC a fortune - and because nobody in Britain gives a shit what Mexicans think. Gray and Keys were set upon, in my opinion, because Sky wanted rid, and because women are a much more visible 'group' than Mexicans.
Fry's comments on QI? Can't see anything wrong with them. What did he say, that the bloke who was at Nagasaki and Hiroshima was unlucky? Nothing offensive about that at all. Alan Davies, on the other hand, should be sacked, slapped and thrown down a steep railway embankment for being as funny as an anal fissure.
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Steve Coogan has had his say (http://tinyurl.com/6g26yfq)
Spot on, it seems to me.
That's a top article.
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It's a good article, but wonder whether Steve Coogan's enjoyed an opportunity to knock Top Gear for sibling revenge. Vague recollections that his brother Brendan used to be involved in the programme and was sacked or didn't have his contract renewed.