Gerard Houllier

[pauliewalnuts]

As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.

No, you can't divorce the two.

If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.

He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.

I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Sorry, but I think you can divorce the two.

If you look at where we were when Houllier arrived, the squad was, at least in the face of it, behind K-Mac and their were no fallouts like we've seen with Dunne and Ireland.  We were also in the top half (I think) and certainly looking better then we do now. 

So whatever turmoil we had has only been increased since he took over, and that at least cannot be blamed on MON, although I'm sure some will try to!

A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.

It's also very well to say the players were on the face of it all behind KM, but they went to a newly promoted side and got beaten 6-0, so I'm not quite sure I buy that one.

There is clearly an atmosphere in the dressing room which is not a good one. I reckon the new management team have done some things to make it considerably worse, but it must surely go back to the manager leaving when he did.

I am not making any suggestion that everything that has happened is MON's fault, far from it, but at the same time, I think anyone who suggests we are just pretending it had a major effect is crazy.

Nice crazy, but crazy still.

[pauliewalnuts]

Here's an interesting point.

Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.

Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.

There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.

[Concrete John]

Sack him.....just have a look what happened to the French team at the world cup? He obviously cannot man-manage or inspire a team when they are down?
I know he wasn't head coach...but surely he was part of the problem and could have used his skills to help the team....if he had any?
Just get rid !

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but assigning blame of Houllier for France in the last World Cup is akin to blaming Trevor Brooking for England also being shite.

[dave.woodhall]

Here's an interesting point.

Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.

Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.

There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.

*shakes Walnuts' hand*

It was nice knowing you.

[Clampy]

Like Chris has said, the injury list has had more of an impact on the season than MON leaving when he did. Whilst the timing of his departure was a disruption, continuing to bring it up is wearing a bit thin.

[Concrete John]

As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.

No, you can't divorce the two.

If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.

He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.

I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.

The injuries have had far more of an impact that MON leaving. If We'd had anything like a full strength squad to chose from over the past few months then I reckon we'd be 5-6 points better off and looking up not down.

It's an interesting point when you look at where those 5-6 points would put us in the league.  But would that just be papering over the cracks?  Or are those cracks only appearing as results are so bad?

And another thing - we've all been quite excited about the kids coming through, but if we're saying the injured players would have had us further up the league, does this mean the kids may not be as good as we all hope??

[Jimbo]

I accept MON's role in all this, but he's gone. We can't do anything about him now because he inelegantly dropped us in the shit when he fucked off. What we should have done was appoint somebody who could deal with the aftermath. I know, it was an extremely difficult appointment. However, on the current evidence, we failed to appoint the right person.

Now we have Houllier - a manager the players appear not to want to play for. We can do something about it. But we have to act before it's too late. I wish things were different, but short of replacing our entire senior squad in January with Houllier's chosen men, we're going to have to deal with the problem by more conventional means. And timing here is of the essence, because we're right on the precipice, and January will see us either move towards safety or fall. Is anyone really willing to gamble on Houllier turning it around after what we've seen in recent weeks? 

[Greg N'Ash]

if we've got a them/us situation in the dressing room then frankly we're buggered. Any new signings will be frozen out by the old guard and we'll get relegated. Read about it happening at others clubs and until you can ship out the troublemakers the whole club is poisoned. Houllier won't be able to ship out 5-6 players so we better hope its only 1 or 2 bad apples

[Concrete John]

A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.

Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job.  It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in?  And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.

Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.

[Bosco81]

Here's an interesting point.

Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.

Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.

There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.

*shakes Walnuts' hand*

It was nice knowing you.

Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.

[dave.woodhall]

A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.

Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job.  It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in?  And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.

Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.

Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.

[kippaxvilla2]

In trying to turn us (allegedly) into a more professional outfit with 'proper' training drills etc, he has so far made us look like one of the most unprofessional sides on the pitch you could imagine.

[Concrete John]

Here's an interesting point.

Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.

Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.

There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.

*shakes Walnuts' hand*

It was nice knowing you.

Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.

"Today is a good day to bury bad news."

[dave.woodhall]

Here's an interesting point.

Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.

Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.

There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.

*shakes Walnuts' hand*

It was nice knowing you.

Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.

I read yesterday that 350,000 fatwas have been issued this year by the General Assembly of Islamic Affairs and Endowment. I fear we may reach that figure on our own.

[kippaxvilla2]

A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.

Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job.  It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in?  And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.

Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.

Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.

But that seems to fly against your opening post on your own thread.  I think if I infer it correctly you are saying players should be able to get on with it no matter what.  So MO'Ns departure, or the timing of it shouldn't matter.