Ashes 2010/11

[taylorsworkrate]

I don't really thi

What we need to remember is this is 4th against 5th in the world

That's the truth of it, yet they've been built up as if they are the s best in the world.

I think the rankings are a bit skewed, in that there is no way that Sri Lanka are the 3rd best team in the World.  They have by far the most helpful home conditions, yet still couldn't beat the West Indies at home. 

[OzVilla]

That is a truly cowardly batting performance. 

That's a bit harsh as I reckon only Pietersen and Colluingwood played poor shots.

What we need to remember is this is 4th against 5th in the world, we don't occupy those positions because we are consistant.

This series will ebb and flow like in 2009.  We've been well and truely turned over here, similar to us well and truely turning them over in Adelaide.  Only trouble is that they now have the momentum.

We'll need to re-group now for Melbourne but not press the panic button.  Two fairly average internatonal teams here so shit will happen.

I thought Trott's shot was pretty poor aswell. 

I don't go along with the average international team either, England have played excellent cricket for the vast majority of this tour.  They have badly let themselves down with the bat in this match. 

I must say, I don't think you are giving the Aussie bowlers enough credit for the way they bolwed 1st innings - that wasn't down to poor batting at all.

To quote from Andrew Strauss, ''When we are good we are good enough, when we are bad we are are very bad''. sic

The same also applies to Australia.  It's this lack of consistancy that means we have one bad innings during the last West Indies tour and we ended up losing a series. 

At times we've been excellent in this series I totally agree, but it's maintaining that standard of performance over 5 days and 5 Tests in 6 weeks that sorts the men from the boys.  We struggle to do that which makes us an average side, with promise agreed, but right now still an average side.

Both of these teams still have batting collapses in them I reckon when the pressure is applied. 

[cdbearsfan]

Time for Bell to be a hero. Double-century tomorrow and we'll piss it.

** Clutches at straws **

[peter w]

Thing is this shouldn't be a surprise to any of us. Last summer our batting was poor at times to say the least and it was only poor 9or cheating) opposition that allowed us to get away with it. Our bowling attack has been fine, as it has in both unnings in this game. I was never convinced that our batting in the last two games wasn't as much to do with their poor bowling as it was our great batting.

Yes, this one's a goner but its 1-1 and the WACA is the bounciest pitch anywhere and we've been caught out by it. Melbourne and Sydney will be more to our liking, and our batsmen won't be undone by a pitch they are unlikely to bat on anywhere but Perth.

[KevinGage]

Another world class exhibition of the batting collapse under way it seems.

Was enjoying the start of England's first innings on day two. Strauss and Cook had seen off the new ball in a tricky final session the night before and after plenty of chat and high fives from the Aussies in the field prior to day two, at 78 for no wicket the game was drifting away from them, and they knew it.

Then Cook chased after a wide one and England haven't really been in the game since, bar that little spell at the start of Australia's second innings. Probably not just a turning point in the game, but potentially the whole series.

Credit has to go to Johnson to a certain extent, but there was an air of predictability about some of those dismissals, particularly yesterday. That innings at the Oval in 2005 apart, KP is never the guy to fight a rearguard action. He seems to be fine if the top order have given him a decent platform but increasingly struggles if the conditions are anything less than favourable.

The temptation would be to make a few changes for Melbourne, Collingwood's form in particular being a worry. You'd lose what he gives you in the field (though Morgan is a decent fielder) and on occasion with the ball. But he's in the side for what he can do with the bat and he's not even average at present.

By the same token you wouldn't want to be seen to be making wholesale changes and panicking either. Even those who tipped an England series win at the outset (and I wasn't one of them) had Australia winning at least one game. If this is that one game so be it.

[PaulWinch again]

Another world class exhibition of the batting collapse under way it seems.

Was enjoying the start of England's first innings on day two. Strauss and Cook had seen off the new ball in a tricky final session the night before and after plenty of chat and high fives from the Aussies in the field prior to day two, at 78 for no wicket the game was drifting away from them, and they knew it.

Then Cook chased after a wide one and England haven't really been in the game since, bar that little spell at the start of Australia's second innings. Probably not just a turning point in the game, but potentially the whole series.

Credit has to go to Johnson to a certain extent, but there was an air of predictability about some of those dismissals, particularly yesterday. That innings at the Oval in 2005 apart, KP is never the guy to fight a rearguard action. He seems to be fine if the top order have given him a decent platform but increasingly struggles if the conditions are anything less than favourable.

The temptation would be to make a few changes for Melbourne, Collingwood's form in particular being a worry. You'd lose what he gives you in the field (though Morgan is a decent fielder) and on occasion with the ball. But he's in the side for what he can do with the bat and he's not even average at present.

By the same token you wouldn't want to be seen to be making wholesale changes and panicking either. Even those who tipped an England series win at the outset (and I wasn't one of them) had Australia winning at least one game. If this is that one game so be it.

I'd say that summation is bang on, I do think Collingwood does have to go though or at the very least Bell be moved above him in the order.

[taylorsworkrate]

Right, my emotions got the best of me earlier, but i've calmed down now.

I still firmly believe we are the better team.  We still have a good batting line up, a world class spinner and a very efficient pace attack.  Australia have a decent batting line up (Hussey has held them together), no spinner, a decent bowler in Harris and a very good one in Johnson (when on song).

Lessons need to be learnt from this test.  Part of the reason the batsmen did so well in the 1st and 2nd tests was because of their ability to leave the ball.  Johnson did bowl excellently to the right handers in particular in the 1st innings this game, but a lot of wickets since then have been pretty soft.

Morgan should come in for Collingwood for Melbourne.  He is a fine player, unorthadox so very difficult to bowl too.  he would also break up the run of right handers in the middle order.  Johnson seems to be less effective bowling at left handers.  Collingwood does offer a lot in the field and a few handy overs (Trott could probably do a similar job with the ball), but his form has been very poor and his place in the batting line up does not look justified.

Whether they'll have the balls to make that change is another issue though.

I'd also be slightly worried about Finn at Melbourne.  He's bowled very well so far for a 21 year old.  He has shown lots of promise and will have a great career.  He has bowled a lot of overs this tour though and has been quite expensive.  I don't think Melbourne will suit his type of bowling too much. I think Shazhad with his skiddy type of bowling and extra bit of pace could prove a bit of a handful.  It would be very tough on Finn, but I think Shazhad would be the better option if recent Melbourne conditions are repeated.

Tremlett is a similar sort of bowler as Finn, but his control is quite a bit better at this stage.

[Dave Cooper please]

No panic, we fucked this one up but hopefully that's the massive kick up the arse we needed.

Two to go, win one and that's the Ashes, we still definitely have the better team.

[JD]

That's right Dave. We are still in the box seat to regain the Ashes and there will be no better place than the MCG. Maybe we are just saving ourselves for the Boxing Day test  .

[beness]

123- all out. Didn't take long to finish us off today.

[OzVilla]

123 all out is simply not good enough.

We'll have to take our medicine here now and then move on as quickly as we can.  Work will be fun tomorrow now. 

[TopDeck113]

Whilst the defeat was an inevitability, it would have been good to have seen the tail wag and at least go past our 1st innings score.

I too hope this is the kick up the backside for our batsmen.  Our bowlers took the 20 wickets necessary for a win, but our batters failed. Twice.

My big concern now is that the Aussies now know the type of wicket to prepare to get England out cheaply.  My other concern is that the Australian top order - and Ponting in particular - will have at least one innings when they will get centuries. 

I think this series is now going to go the distance...

[VillaZogmariner]

Well that was a bit shit wasn't it!

I don't think there is any real need to panic at all as I think everyone expected a bit of a blip from England at some point in the series, just a shame it didn't wait until Sydney when we were 2-0 up!

I don't think England will change the side at all for the MCG, but if Collingwood struggles again with the bat I think his place will be in the balance at SCG regardless of the result next week. I'm also a bit concerned about Finn, ok so he has taken wickets, but I think that has been more out of luck than judgement. Anderson has bowled so much better that Finn has without the rewards to show for it.

[Proposition Joe]

Let's hope for rain of biblical proportions for the rest of the series!  Or maybe pack the sides with batsmen as Aussies still need to win one more for the Ashes.

The MCG pitch as it stands will suit our players, but I'll bet they'll be working overtime to produce a minefield.  And even though I always had the SCG down as a spinners' wicket and would therefore favour us, Michael Vaughan reckons it will be a pacy, bouncy wicket, so we may as well hand that one over now.

[taylorsworkrate]

Well I expected more fight than that.

I suppose a similar thing happened at Headingly in 09, and we are a much better team now than we were then.

No reason for us not to bounce back strongly.