Ashley Young, Diver ?

[robbo1874]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

I wouldn't say that it was ok. 

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

If we had a player who fouled people considerably more often than was the norm, I bet we would have threads about it on here.

I bet Sunderland forums have threads about Cattermole and how he shouldn't foul people as much.

It's more than that though, you're adding a moral perspective. Is Cattermole kicking people morally wrong? if so every player in the world is at times guilty of it.

In this country we have decided that diving is somehow 'bad cheating' yet kicking lumps out of each other is 'good cheating'. Paul Scholes is one of the dirtiest players in the league yet I don't think any of us would have said no had we signed him at his peak.

Scholes isn't dirty, he just 'isn't very good at tackling'. Tsk, don't you listen to the match commentators?

[timeoutbigbar]

And as a rule, we don't tend to like anything that isn't 'British'.  So kicking lumps out of someone is fine, because that's the English game for you, its physical.  When someone throws themselves to ground though, without actually being tackled, that's not British (although it clearly has transferred to our players), but seen as a 'foreign' trait.

[pedro25]

fouling can be cheating, but it isn't always, if you try to play the ball but miss and catch the man, how is that cheating?  But I can't see how diving can ever not be cheating.

[john e]

tackling is part and parcel of the game, any book on the techniques of football will have a chapter on tackling, and how to make good tackles.
any one 'kicking lumps' will be cautioned and sent of if neccesary.

you wont find the chapter on Diving, because its not part of the game,

Athletes wont find the chapter on the best drugs to use because its not part of athletics, but we all know it goes on,
 
Cricketers wont find the chapter on spot betting, because its not supposed to be part of the game, but it still happens,
what do we do just say, well we know it all happens lets just accept it as part of the game

to say you wont stop blatent diving and cheating in football, and go along with the 'everyone does it, so its ok if we do' is to condone it

[PaulTheVillan]

Tackling is part of the game.
Diving is part of the game, but shouldn't be.
Young is cringeworthy at times, I wish he'd cut it out.

[JUAN PABLO]

10 10 10 9 10      from the judges for that dive... He could teach Tom Daley a few tricks

[Chris Smith]

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

We would get threads just as big if one of our players was a thug or a constant niggly fouling twat, but none of them are particularly. Ashley however is a diver, and as a Villa player who dives he will get discussed on here.

Do you condone all cheating or only that perpetuated by Villa players?

I've already answered that a few posts above, I'll post it again to make it easier for you.

I'm not condoning them either, just accepting that footballers will always do whatever it takes (that they can get away with) to gain an advantage.

It's part of the game to push the rules as far as you can. If players weren't like that we wouldn't need refs as they'd just own up to every misdemeanour. I just find the little Englander attitude that diving is worse, and despite all the denials that is in essence what this thread is about, a little odd.

[Dave Cooper please]

Me and you have made the best posts in this thread.

That's rather presumptious of you, personally I don't think much of your posts at all, especially as you have used the word "yawnz", At least you haven't used "lolwut" in this thread yet.

TECHNICIALLY it is cheating when defenders are constantly hacking Ash (it's funny how some people in this thread don't notice and realise that Ash takes a lot of shit off defenders, they only highlight his 'diving' yawnz), because in the laws of the game hacking and trying to paralyse a player's lower-body is not permitted. It goes both ways ya know.

Fouls are punished by free-kicks, penalties and sometimes bookings, if Ash stopped hurling himself into the air before he is even touched then he wouldn't have a reputation for diving.

[Chris Smith]

tackling is part and parcel of the game, any book on the techniques of football will have a chapter on tackling, and how to make good tackles.
any one 'kicking lumps' will be cautioned and sent of if neccesary.

you wont find the chapter on Diving, because its not part of the game,

Athletes wont find the chapter on the best drugs to use because its not part of athletics, but we all know it goes on,
 
Cricketers wont find the chapter on spot betting, because its not supposed to be part of the game, but it still happens,
what do we do just say, well we know it all happens lets just accept it as part of the game

to say you wont stop blatent diving and cheating in football, and go along with the 'everyone does it, so its ok if we do' is to condone it

What about blocking off in the penalty area, shirt pulling, claiming a corner when you know it is a goal kick, taking dead balls from the wrong place deliberately, appealing for offside when you know it isn't, not owning up when you know you are offside...

Cheating takes many forms, we don't make moral claims for any of the others.

[Chris Smith]

Me and you have made the best posts in this thread.

That's rather presumptious of you, personally I don't think much of your posts at all, especially as you have used the word "yawnz", At least you haven't used "lolwut" in this thread yet.

TECHNICIALLY it is cheating when defenders are constantly hacking Ash (it's funny how some people in this thread don't notice and realise that Ash takes a lot of shit off defenders, they only highlight his 'diving' yawnz), because in the laws of the game hacking and trying to paralyse a player's lower-body is not permitted. It goes both ways ya know.

Fouls are punished by free-kicks, penalties and sometimes bookings, if Ash stopped hurling himself into the air before he is even touched then he wouldn't have a reputation for diving.

Your naivety is charming.

Of course fouls aren't all punished, Ash is far more sinned against than sinner. In any game he is fouled more often without it getting spotted by the ref compared to the odd time he might try to regain an advantage by exaggerating his fall.

[pedro25]

I dont agree that players will do whatever it takes to gain an advantage.  A couple of years ago they brought in a law that play should continue if a player is down unless the ref blows his whistle and he will only do this for a head injury (or presumably leg break/other obvious serious injury).  However time and time again since our players and other team's players still knock the ball out when a player is down even if the ref hasn't blown.  I find it slightly irritating as there is an obvious advantage to be gained, but it shows good sportmanship, diving does not.

[pedro25]

Ash being fouled by a player trying to get the ball is far less sinful than him diving and cheating.

[martyn ellis]

We should ask ourselves how come Ashley has hardly missed a game for Villa despite having a frame that means he has to run around to get wet in the shower and being an open invitation for some heavy tackling to put him off his game. I've always been impressed by the way he manages to avoid the worst of challenges and when he doesn't (I remember a particularly nasty challenge from De Jong last year), how he gets up and gets on with the game. Sometimes I agree he goes down too easily and too theatrically; other times its sheer self-protection that allows him to keep playing week after week when he could be picking uo injury after injury.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

We ought to start a new thread examining why Carew's performances this season have been so lacklustre and devoid of energy
Carew - Muff diver?

[adrenachrome]

We ought to start a new thread examining why Carew's performances this season have been so lacklustre and devoid of energy
Carew - Muff diver?

John Carew Carew
Gets more flange flange than me and you
No muff is too tough it's true
For Big John Carew
He just loves to screw
And he likes a chew
On a clunge or two