Ashley Young, Diver ?

[Legion]

I started a similar thread quite a while ago. It did not go down too well (!). As great a player as he is, I still think he goes to ground too easily.

[VillaAlways]

Says on tme media reports pm  on OS that he's a doubt for Chelsea game.Did he pick up a knock ?

[Dave]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

[Chris Smith]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

[Dave]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

I wouldn't say that it was ok. 

[Chris Smith]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

I wouldn't say that it was ok. 

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

[Dave]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

I wouldn't say that it was ok. 

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

If we had a player who fouled people considerably more often than was the norm, I bet we would have threads about it on here.

I bet Sunderland forums have threads about Cattermole and how he shouldn't foul people as much.

[Chris Smith]

In the great words of Jim Rome "If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying and it’s only cheating if you get caught"

what about bribing the ref before the game to let you have a penalty,
 would that be OK in your cheating is ok as long as you dont get caught world ?

But this is winning a penalty but exaggeration, not bribery. He was fouled twice, if referees were more willing to give penalties for fouls without people throwing themself to the floor then less people would dive.

It was blatant cheating and horrible when Pennant dived in the 90th minute which meant we lost to Stoke.

It's no less morally wrong when Young does the same.

But why is some cheating Ok, e.g. fouling or claiming a corner when you know it isn't, yet diving or simulation is always singled out to be somehow morally reprehensible?

I wouldn't say that it was ok. 

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

If we had a player who fouled people considerably more often than was the norm, I bet we would have threads about it on here.

I bet Sunderland forums have threads about Cattermole and how he shouldn't foul people as much.

It's more than that though, you're adding a moral perspective. Is Cattermole kicking people morally wrong? if so every player in the world is at times guilty of it.

In this country we have decided that diving is somehow 'bad cheating' yet kicking lumps out of each other is 'good cheating'. Paul Scholes is one of the dirtiest players in the league yet I don't think any of us would have said no had we signed him at his peak.

[Dave]

It's more than that though, you're adding a moral perspective. Is Cattermole kicking people morally wrong? if so every player in the world is at times guilty of it.

In this country we have decided that diving is somehow 'bad cheating' yet kicking lumps out of each other is 'good cheating'. Paul Scholes is one of the dirtiest players in the league yet I don't think any of us would have said no had we signed him at his peak.

No, but if he then spent games deliberately fouling people I would want him to stop doing so regardless of how good a player he was. And I don't really think that anyone thinks that kicking lumps out of people is good.

I don't think anyone is saying that we shouldn't have bought Young or that they don't want him to play for us. They want him to carry on playing well but without the unnecessary diving.

I'm realistic enough to know that neither deliberate fouling nor deliberate diving is going to stop anytime soon, from our players or opposition players. But that doesn't mean I have to condone them either.

[Chris Smith]

It's more than that though, you're adding a moral perspective. Is Cattermole kicking people morally wrong? if so every player in the world is at times guilty of it.

In this country we have decided that diving is somehow 'bad cheating' yet kicking lumps out of each other is 'good cheating'. Paul Scholes is one of the dirtiest players in the league yet I don't think any of us would have said no had we signed him at his peak.

No, but if he then spent games deliberately fouling people I would want him to stop doing so regardless of how good a player he was. And I don't really think that anyone thinks that kicking lumps out of people is good.

I don't think anyone is saying that we shouldn't have bought Young or that they don't want him to play for us. They want him to carry on playing well but without the unnecessary diving.

I'm realistic enough to know that neither deliberate fouling nor deliberate diving is going to stop anytime soon, from our players or opposition players. But that doesn't mean I have to condone them either.

I'm not condoning them either, just accepting that footballers will always do whatever it takes (that they can get away with) to gain an advantage. However, because defenders know that they've got the moral majority on their side you see them standing over players berating them for diving even though they know they've caught them.

[Karl Bridges]

In general I think Ash gets some pretty rough treatment from the opposition. Some of them he gets and some of them he doesn't. If defenders can sometimes get away with taking him out I can kind of sympathise with him for taking a few liberties himself every now and again.

[olaftab]

Defenders cheat blatantly and openly whilst hacking him down. So for every 10 times that he  is stopped  unfairly (by cheats) he tries to get one over them by simulation.
Nothing wrong with that. Carry on Ash.

[Dave Cooper please]

We don't get threads like this about any other type of 'cheating'.

We would get threads just as big if one of our players was a thug or a constant niggly fouling twat, but none of them are particularly. Ashley however is a diver, and as a Villa player who dives he will get discussed on here.

Do you condone all cheating or only that perpetuated by Villa players?

[The Situation]

Defenders cheat blatantly and openly whilst hacking him down. So for every 10 times that he  is stopped  unfairly (by cheats) he tries to get one over them by simulation.
Nothing wrong with that. Carry on Ash.

Me and you have made the best posts in this thread.

TECHNICIALLY it is cheating when defenders are constantly hacking Ash (it's funny how some people in this thread don't notice and realise that Ash takes a lot of shit off defenders, they only highlight his 'diving' yawnz), because in the laws of the game hacking and trying to paralyse a player's lower-body is not permitted. It goes both ways ya know.

[Caiphus]

http://refarbiter.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/diving-cheating-simulation/

Article about the mechanics of diving