0% Villa: Liverpool's goal today

[Eigentor]

From ex-ref Jeff Winter's website:

Getting back to 'that goal', ironically in law Atwell was correct. The ball was positioned in the correct place, despite what Bruce claims, and once Turner tapped it back it was in play, so the goal was valid. That is why the authorities have quickly come out and stated these facts.

I am sure though that behind closed doors some advice will be coming Atwell’s way. Firstly he turned his back on play as the game restarted, a complete no-no for refs. It was obvious that Turner was not intentionally taking the free kick, but with more experience and awareness Atwell could have handled it better.

Had he have been watching play, he could have assessed what was happening and blown instantly and suggested that he was still not happy with the placement of the ball. Now what I have said is wrong, wrong, wrong, but it the commonsense that an experienced ref would have used to prevent the controversy.

[Bent Neilsens Screamer]

According to the Beeb Atwell hasn’t been assigned a game this weekend so the law makers must have been unhappy with his decision or are they just protecting him from any potential flack, I’d go with the former.

[Somniloquism]

From ex-ref Jeff Winter's website:

Getting back to 'that goal', ironically in law Atwell was correct. The ball was positioned in the correct place, despite what Bruce claims, and once Turner tapped it back it was in play, so the goal was valid. That is why the authorities have quickly come out and stated these facts.

I am sure though that behind closed doors some advice will be coming Atwell’s way. Firstly he turned his back on play as the game restarted, a complete no-no for refs. It was obvious that Turner was not intentionally taking the free kick, but with more experience and awareness Atwell could have handled it better.

Had he have been watching play, he could have assessed what was happening and blown instantly and suggested that he was still not happy with the placement of the ball. Now what I have said is wrong, wrong, wrong, but it the commonsense that an experienced ref would have used to prevent the controversy.

Andy Gray spoke to some refs on Sunday apparently and the same advice was given. As soon as he allowed the play to continue and the ball was in the net then it was a goal and was correct in the letter of the law. But an experienced ref would have stopped it earlier with some made up excuse.

[Concrete John]

How often do we see players tap the ball to someone else before a free kick is taken?  Well, not anymore I'd say!

The best way to decide if this was fair or not is to imagine if he would have given it AGAINST Liverpool at Anfield.  Yes, that's what I thought too!

[peter w]

I completely disagree that it should have stood.

After a foul has been committed, play can resume without the whistle been blown as a quick free kick can be taken.  Sunderland tried to do this, the ref felt it wasn't taken from the correct spot so blew again for the free kick to be taken again.  Play can now not resume until he blows his whistle again.  Turner kicked the ball back to the keeper before he blew his whistle again.  Secondly, Turner kicked it from almost the exact same position as the original free kick; so if the ref blew for that reason the first time, he should not have allowed the kick to be taken from the near identical spot the second time around.

The ref doesn't have to blow again. Otherwise there would never be teh chance for quick free-kicks after the ref blows for the initial infringement.

[Somniloquism]

I completely disagree that it should have stood.

After a foul has been committed, play can resume without the whistle been blown as a quick free kick can be taken.  Sunderland tried to do this, the ref felt it wasn't taken from the correct spot so blew again for the free kick to be taken again.  Play can now not resume until he blows his whistle again.  Turner kicked the ball back to the keeper before he blew his whistle again.  Secondly, Turner kicked it from almost the exact same position as the original free kick; so if the ref blew for that reason the first time, he should not have allowed the kick to be taken from the near identical spot the second time around.

The ref doesn't have to blow again. Otherwise there would never be teh chance for quick free-kicks after the ref blows for the initial infringement.

I can see where Arsey is coming from. They tried to take the quick freekick but the ref blew a second time to call the free kick back. He is saying because he blew that second time as he wasn't ready, he then should have reblown to start when he was ready. But the only time that ever happens is when the wall is being set up and the ref says wait for the whistle. He didn't say it this time.

[adrenachrome]

The most salient point is the one made by Winters, that "it was obvious that Turner was not intentionally taking the free kick", and that common sense should have prevailed. 

 

[davevillan]

I completely disagree that it should have stood.

After a foul has been committed, play can resume without the whistle been blown as a quick free kick can be taken.  Sunderland tried to do this, the ref felt it wasn't taken from the correct spot so blew again for the free kick to be taken again.  Play can now not resume until he blows his whistle again.  Turner kicked the ball back to the keeper before he blew his whistle again.  Secondly, Turner kicked it from almost the exact same position as the original free kick; so if the ref blew for that reason the first time, he should not have allowed the kick to be taken from the near identical spot the second time around.

The ref doesn't have to blow again. Otherwise there would never be teh chance for quick free-kicks after the ref blows for the initial infringement.

I can see where Arsey is coming from. They tried to take the quick freekick but the ref blew a second time to call the free kick back. He is saying because he blew that second time as he wasn't ready, he then should have reblown to start when he was ready. But the only time that ever happens is when the wall is being set up and the ref says wait for the whistle. He didn't say it this time.

The ref only has to give a signal, that can be the whistle, or just using his arm/shouting play etc. In defensive free kicks, generally there is no whistle as they just want to get the game moving, and why the nearer the goal-line they tend no to be too pedantic on the position of the ball..Nearer the halfway line, when they can launch it into the opposing penalty area, the ref will be more fussy on the ball position. On Sat the original free kick was taken quickly from near the halfway line, then the ref took it back to outside the centre circle, as he moved away, he was happy for it to be taken from that place. Turner would have known that. The blame should really be with the player, this is another case of players not understanding/knowing the Laws. Its all well these ex refs saying what Atwell should have done, but they all mucked up at times. That was an unuasual incident Sat, that took the ref by surprise, and he did the correct thing in law.
As for Winters comments, i know an ex football league A/R who ran the line to him, flagged for a blatent pen on his side, only for Winter to wave him down and play on!!

[dave shelley]

Sorry all but I don't know how to do the quote thing but regarding Jeff Winters' website quote and others on this issue, please see my post on Saturday, but hey, what do I know?

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Just thought I'd share this fantastic pic:

[Somniloquism]

WTF? Have they both been given Evil villain parts in some childrens panto?

[Brend'Watkins]

Are they auditioning for a remake of Gremlins?

[adrenachrome]

Sorry all but I don't know how to do the quote thing but regarding Jeff Winters' website quote and others on this issue, please see my post on Saturday, but hey, what do I know?

Why are you sorry?

And what do you know?

And how do you know what you know?

And hey, what the hey.

[Pete3206]

We can bang on about rules and laws until the cows come home. Any fool can see that the defender was leaving the ball for the goalkeeper to take the free kick, apart from the fool who was in charge of the game of course. He wasn't even watching. Fine, Liverpool took full advantage and took the ball forward in an unsportsmanlike manner, even though the Sunderland players stood like statues in amazement.

That referee has made a rod for his own back and has set a precedent which will make the officials lives just that bit more difficult. Still, rules are rules eh.

[davevillan]

We can bang on about rules and laws until the cows come home. Any fool can see that the defender was leaving the ball for the goalkeeper to take the free kick, apart from the fool who was in charge of the game of course. He wasn't even watching. Fine, Liverpool took full advantage and took the ball forward in an unsportsmanlike manner, even though the Sunderland players stood like statues in amazement.

That referee has made a rod for his own back and has set a precedent which will make the officials lives just that bit more difficult. Still, rules are rules eh.

Only he didnt leave it, he kicked it backwards, and therein lies the problem. Had he left it where it was, it wouldnt have been a problem. The ball was where the ref wanted it, thats why he ran off....i dont think ive ever seen a team take the ball back unless instructed to do so, and even then, its inch by inch....But once Turner kicks it from the position its in, the ball is then in play, whatever his intentions where.
I disagree about making refs lives more difficult, as players will now be more aware, and i doubt it will happen again.