From now to next May your expectations

[Lambert and Payne]

8th or above
Derby wins
Good cup run
Nice football and a bit of confidence in the team
Oh yeah and Gabby to hit 20

[Villa'Zawg]

It doesn't matter how often you say it, it still won't be true. £60m net spend on the playing squad going into our 5th season under Randy Lerner is not a huge spend, it is a below average spend for a top 8 team. Just as our wage bill is not high for top 8 team, it is below average. The area of finance where we have a serious deficiency compared to the other top 8 teams is in revenue and/or investment.

Do you really believe that ?

I see where the General is coming from when he says some fans don't listen to anything or believe anything he says.

I also wonder if I was the only one who ever criticised what Mon did

Do I still believe what? The amounts of money we spend and how that relates to the other clubs in the top 8 isn't an article faith, it is factual, objective information available to all.

Spending £120m over four years is a huge amount of money but isn't a huge amount relative to spurs who have spent more than that in only 2 years. Belief doesn't come into it.

I know you stubbornly refuse to understand the importance of the word "net", but you can not ignore it.

Spurs "net" spending in the last five seasons is 90m.

If you're going to use figures like them spending 87m in 08/09 then you also need to acknowledge the fact that they raised 67m in sales that year, too.

I understand net spend perfectly well thanks. I simply chose to post a gross spend example in this instance. I could have used a net spend comparison just as well and the conclusion in relation to Malcolm's "huge spend" is just the same

You've chosen to highlight the net spend figure, which is fine. The fact that Spurs whose squad were in 5th on 65 points five years ago, have spent £90m net (I'll assume your figure is correct) and Villa whose squad were 16th on 42 points five years ago, have spent £60m net, is another good example to demonstrate that it isn't appropriate to categorise Villa's spending as huge. Not when Spurs are spending 50% more.

You chose to ignore the net because it sounds far more dramatic that way.

You mention Spurs spent 50 percent more net, but this ignores the harsh reality that, this summer, we didn't have a manager in place to do the spending - he'd left at the point at which he would usually start to spend.

As for Spurs squad being 5th five years ago, how about that same squad being 11th 3 years ago?  Or 8th two years ago (below both us and Fulham)?

And why just Spurs, how does our spending stack up against Everton's?

There will always be someone spending more money than us, that's a fact, but to pretend we haven't spent a lot of money in a period when we've found ourselves amongst the highest spenders in Europe seems a bit, well, wrong.

I'm sorry, you're getting twisted up your own arse. The initial point I made to Malcolm was that our transfer spending was not a "huge spend" when compared to the average spend of the top 8 clubs. It doesn't matter which figure you choose to focus on, be it gross spend, net spend or wages, the conclusion is the same. Ours has not been a "huge spend" in comparison to the top 8 clubs in the Premier League.

I used an example comparison against Spurs gross spend because it seemed reasonable to do so. I didn't use the extremes of Man City's gross spend or Chelsea's wages or indeed Everton's net spend. I used Spurs gross spend, precisely because it wasn't an extreme example. The important point in my post was that our spending is not huge, it is lower than average compared to the 7 teams we are expecting our club to compete with. That's a fact, like it or lump it.

You're now having a go at me for doing a similar comparison of the Spurs net spend over 5 years, when i only did so because you brought the subject up. WTF is that all about?

I am not pretending anything, I'm trying to espress a point of view based on known facts. I'm quite happy to acknowledge that we along with all other Premier League clubs spend a lot of money. The fact that we spend more than clubs in other European leagues doesn't make a jot of difference, when our main English rivals are also spending more than clubs in European leagues and more importantly, spending more on average than we are.

[peter w]

we're due a derby defeat or two and that rankles.

[Ads]

8th or above
Derby wins
Good cup run
Nice football and a bit of confidence in the team
Oh yeah and Gabby to hit 20

If we win all our derby's then we'll struggle to finish lower than 6th! 24 points right there.

[Chris Smith]

If they'd wanted to they could have given MacDonald authority to make transfers. That they didn't suggests that they weren't altogether unhappy at the opportunity not to spend anything this summer.

Hang on, though, Chris, weren't you in the "these things take time to sort out, you dont just wave the money and the players come" camp when it was MON taking his time to complete transfers, but now you reckon KMac could have got them under way and sorted in three weeks?

Maybe we'd already talked to players who wanted to come but changed their mind when our managerial situation changed, thus leaving us at square one?

The only thing we can say without any doubt on transfers is that the Milner deal, which went through after MON left, included a player to make up, what, 40 percent of the deal value.

That doesn't sound like a board who were suddenly happy not to be spending anything, or surely they'd have insisted on the cash.

Yes, he could have made signings in 3 weeks. He said an interview that he expected to be talking to people about potential signings, they just didn't happen. We either failed with bids or they decided not to go ahead.

[Ads]

we're due a derby defeat or two and that rankles.

Geeeeeeeeeet out of it!

[pauliewalnuts]

If they'd wanted to they could have given MacDonald authority to make transfers. That they didn't suggests that they weren't altogether unhappy at the opportunity not to spend anything this summer.

Hang on, though, Chris, weren't you in the "these things take time to sort out, you dont just wave the money and the players come" camp when it was MON taking his time to complete transfers, but now you reckon KMac could have got them under way and sorted in three weeks?

Maybe we'd already talked to players who wanted to come but changed their mind when our managerial situation changed, thus leaving us at square one?

The only thing we can say without any doubt on transfers is that the Milner deal, which went through after MON left, included a player to make up, what, 40 percent of the deal value.

That doesn't sound like a board who were suddenly happy not to be spending anything, or surely they'd have insisted on the cash.

Yes, he could have made signings in 3 weeks. He said an interview that he expected to be talking to people about potential signings, they just didn't happen. We either failed with bids or they decided not to go ahead.

So why the assumption (not referring to you necessarily) that we've decided to pull out of transfers?

Nobody has done much business this summer. It was a difficult summer to start with, and losing the manager when we did was going to make it much harder.

They've stated categorically that it is nonsense that we waited until the window has shut so we couldn't sign players. Given that they've consistently backed us financially over four years, personally I reckon they've got enough "credit" in the bank to be believed on that one.

I'm just surprised at how many people have decided not to.

[pablopicasso_10]

wasnt the statement that we didnt do any deals was due to wanting the new manager to be in control of them?

[Lambert and Payne]

8th or above
Derby wins
Good cup run
Nice football and a bit of confidence in the team
Oh yeah and Gabby to hit 20

If we win all our derby's then we'll struggle to finish lower than 6th! 24 points right there.

Even better!

[WALTERS WARRIORS]

Surely the milner money the FXpro and fiat money plus any money which was allocated for summer transfers. Has put us in a strong position for Jan and some big names for next summer

[peter w]

If they'd wanted to they could have given MacDonald authority to make transfers. That they didn't suggests that they weren't altogether unhappy at the opportunity not to spend anything this summer.

Hang on, though, Chris, weren't you in the "these things take time to sort out, you dont just wave the money and the players come" camp when it was MON taking his time to complete transfers, but now you reckon KMac could have got them under way and sorted in three weeks?

Maybe we'd already talked to players who wanted to come but changed their mind when our managerial situation changed, thus leaving us at square one?

The only thing we can say without any doubt on transfers is that the Milner deal, which went through after MON left, included a player to make up, what, 40 percent of the deal value.

That doesn't sound like a board who were suddenly happy not to be spending anything, or surely they'd have insisted on the cash.

Yes, he could have made signings in 3 weeks. He said an interview that he expected to be talking to people about potential signings, they just didn't happen. We either failed with bids or they decided not to go ahead.

So why the assumption (not referring to you necessarily) that we've decided to pull out of transfers?

Nobody has done much business this summer. It was a difficult summer to start with, and losing the manager when we did was going to make it much harder.

They've stated categorically that it is nonsense that we waited until the window has shut so we couldn't sign players. Given that they've consistently backed us financially over four years, personally I reckon they've got enough "credit" in the bank to be believed on that one.

I'm just surprised at how many people have decided not to.

Which is the lowest placed team in the football league, other than us, that haven't bought a single player?

[Concrete John]

Surely the milner money the FXpro and fiat money plus any money which was allocated for summer transfers. Has put us in a strong position for Jan and some big names for next summer

That should be the case, even though nothing might be available in Jan.

[Chris Smith]

wasnt the statement that we didnt do any deals was due to wanting the new manager to be in control of them?

Yet we sold Milner and Shorey.

[john e]

if Houllier had been appointed a few days before the transfer window shut, he might well have been out buying players before he really knew what we need,
before he had a good look at the squad and decided who he was going to keep and let go.

they reckon one of the mistakes people make when moving into a new property is to make changes straight away, best to live there for a while first, very often people change what they would have done originaly to something better.

same could be said of buying players in a panic and before you really know what you need,
so i dont see it as a big negative to be honest

[Villa'Zawg]

I believed them that it is nonsense that we waited until the window has shut before signing a new manager so we couldn't sign players. I also believed them when they said the focus this summer was on reducing wages and needing to sell some players.