The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[pauliewalnuts]

It isn't that big a deal, Spurs definitely pay more for players in combined transfer fees and wages, shall we leave it at that?

I know what the situation is, therefore it's no big deal for me. It is, however, for you for some reason, so if it makes you happy, keep on believing it.

Just don't be surprised if people pull you up on it or are bemused when you go on refusing to believe it.

[ronshirt]

Isn't 'Arry up in court sometime soon for tax evasion?

[damon loves JT]

One legacy of O'Neill is that I am now being very cautious in my expectations of GH and McAllister.

[pauliewalnuts]

This stuff really makes ne laugh. Some people are so keen to believe that somehow we're run like shit and Spurs are run brilliantly that they will not countenance for a second that their might be something in what VD says. That a rich club from London might actually pay their players very well. No, of course that can't possibly be true, they've limped along like paupers while we've been lighting cigars with £50 notes.

The truth is none of us can know for certain yet Paulie and Risso feel confident enough to dismiss what he says as theories while claiming their own interpretation as cold hard facts.

Who has said anything about Spurs not paying their players well? I'm sure they do. They might have a lower wage bill than us, but I don't think for a moment they're all forced to claim housing benefit.

Although I'd believe it if Woodgate was on incapacity benefit.

Incidentally, I don't think we're run like shit. A cursory examination of this board over the last few weeks would suggest that you're the one thinking that.

Our wage bill is higher than theirs. Fact. In the accounts.

Villadawg's theories about maybe this, maybe that - theories.

[Chris Smith]

Isn't 'Arry up in court sometime soon for tax evasion?

He's worked wonders with his tax form.

[KevinGage]

It isn't that big a deal, Spurs definitely pay more for players in combined transfer fees and wages, shall we leave it at that?

So accept you're right, even when you're wrong?

Or at best have nothing to back up your assertion other than a hunch? Refusing to believe audited accounts?

Is that how it works now?

[pauliewalnuts]

Perhaps that's one of MON's legacies.

That we're reduced to arguing over accounting procedures to make his record look more impressive.

My take on his legacy is that he did a decent job - nothing more, nothing less - and although we've got some very decent players, we've got some high earning rubbish that we'll struggle to shift.

Well, I suspect we will, but let's see what happens when Houllier has settled in and tries to shift those he sees as surplus to requirements.

[Risso]

The truth is none of us can know for certain yet Paulie and Risso feel confident enough to dismiss what he says as theories while claiming their own interpretation as cold hard facts.

Please show me one thing I have said on the issue that isn't a cold hard fact.

[damon loves JT]

Perhaps that's one of MON's legacies.

That we're reduced to arguing over accounting procedures to make his record look more impressive.

may I remind you mr walnuts that you are under oath

[hilts_coolerking]

This stuff really makes ne laugh. Some people are so keen to believe that somehow we're run like shit and Spurs are run brilliantly that they will not countenance for a second that their might be something in what VD says.

Why on earth should anyone think there is something in what he says when he hasn't got a shred of evidence to support any of it?

[Chris Smith]

This stuff really makes ne laugh. Some people are so keen to believe that somehow we're run like shit and Spurs are run brilliantly that they will not countenance for a second that their might be something in what VD says. That a rich club from London might actually pay their players very well. No, of course that can't possibly be true, they've limped along like paupers while we've been lighting cigars with £50 notes.

The truth is none of us can know for certain yet Paulie and Risso feel confident enough to dismiss what he says as theories while claiming their own interpretation as cold hard facts.

Who has said anything about Spurs not paying their players well? I'm sure they do. They might have a lower wage bill than us, but I don't think for a moment they're all forced to claim housing benefit.

Although I'd believe it if Woodgate was on incapacity benefit.

Incidentally, I don't think we're run like shit. A cursory examination of this board over the last few weeks would suggest that you're the one thinking that.

Our wage bill is higher than theirs. Fact. In the accounts.

Villadawg's theories about maybe this, maybe that - theories.

A cursory examination would suggest that you're making things up, again. I've never once said that we're run like shit. As you were so fond of saying the club is bigger than one man and questioning one or two decisions doesn't mean that you think everything is shit or doesn't that argument count now that you're not using it?

However, to suggest that our owners are paying more on players wages than Spurs who have a much larger playing squad is a pretty damning indictment of them. That's why I think that the published accounts don't tell the whole story because I don't believe that Randy Lerner is as stupid as you are painting him.

[TheSandman]

This stuff really makes me laugh. Some people are so keen to believe that somehow we're run like shit and Spurs are run brilliantly that they will not countenance for a second that their might be something in what VD says. That a rich club from London might actually pay their players very well. No, of course that can't possibly be true, they've limped along like paupers while we've been lighting cigars with £50 notes.

The truth is none of us can know for certain yet Paulie and Risso feel confident enough to dismiss what he says as theories while claiming their own interpretation as cold hard facts.

Spurs are actually a very well run club. Levy has kept the wage bill down sensibly. Their top earners make the same as ours for example. Guys like Bale, Modric and Huddlestone will be on small wages as they have come in from lesser leagues but they have developed into better players whilst at Spurs and become stars. Our players probably by dint of being experienced premier league players, earned premier league wages at their old clubs and therefore get larger premier league wages with us. We are not as well ran. More probably should have been done to curb the wage situation but we are not ran like shit and are not perpetrating Portsmouth style largess.

I expect since Spurs last accounts their wages have increased. I doubt say Van Der Vaart and Gallas are on a tuppence ha'peny each week. However, they have greater revenue streams and now CL football which allows them to bear this. We pay players more BUT we don't have the revenues to bear this whereas Spurs have. Our wages will also have increased with Dunne, Warnock, Collins and Downing earning decent wages.

[Chris Smith]

This stuff really makes me laugh. Some people are so keen to believe that somehow we're run like shit and Spurs are run brilliantly that they will not countenance for a second that their might be something in what VD says. That a rich club from London might actually pay their players very well. No, of course that can't possibly be true, they've limped along like paupers while we've been lighting cigars with £50 notes.

The truth is none of us can know for certain yet Paulie and Risso feel confident enough to dismiss what he says as theories while claiming their own interpretation as cold hard facts.

Spurs are actually a very well run club. Levy has kept the wage bill down sensibly. Their top earners make the same as ours for example. Guys like Bale, Modric and Huddlestone will be on small wages as they have come in from lesser leagues but they have developed into better players whilst at Spurs and become stars. Our players probably by dint of being experienced premier league players, earned premier league wages at their old clubs and therefore get larger premier league wages with us.

I expect since Spurs last accounts their wages have increased. I doubt say Van Der Vaart and Gallas are on a tuppence ha'peny each week. However, they have greater revenue streams and now CL football which allows them to bear this. We pay players more BUT we don't have the revenues to bear this whereas Spurs have. Our wages will also have increased with Dunne, Warnock, Collins and Downing earning decent wages.

Sounds like a lot of guesswork there, Sandman.

[Villa'Zawg]

The 1,000 fewer staff is an interesting stat. It sounds really great until you look at the actual figures.

If you account for only full time employees we have 445 staff. If you add the people who work on match and event days that's another 953 employees. Maybe spurs subcontract that work out? And maybe despite the vast number of employees accounted for there they couldn't set us back much saying as they work a limited number of hours and are predominantly not in managerial and higher paid positions it makes scant difference.

The important thing is that it clearly illustrates that the two figures are not a like for like comparison. You might also want to ask why we have 445 full-time employees and Spurs have only 286.

[hilts_coolerking]

However, to suggest that our owners are paying more on players wages than Spurs who have a much larger playing squad is a pretty damning indictment of them. That's why I think that the published accounts don't tell the whole story because I don't believe that Randy Lerner is as stupid as you are painting him.

But again, we know that we are paying a lot of money to our players - even to those who O'Neill rarely played, which is why we're finding it hard to shift them.  That being the case, is it really so difficult to believe we shell out more on salaries than Spurs do?