The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[Concrete John]

At the moment, views on his tenure as our manager are clouded by the recentness of his resignation and the questions still surrounding the exact reasons.  However, were we to fast forward a couple of years, what will we be thinking of his time here when we can view things with a little less emotion swaying us one way or another?

Will we be saying "Was a fantastic manager and did a great job for us" or "Good consistent manager, but was a 'nearly man' who with a little more luck would have won us a trophy and/or cracked the top 4" or "Held us back for years and wasted a great opportunity for the club"?  A lot of that may be decided by who we get next and what they do, but even if they were to better his record there would be an argument that MON built the foundations in the same way Jol did for Spurs and Redknapp finished the job off.

I think he'll forever be remembered and debated over his transfer dealings, and the two sides of that argument will never agree, but were we to go up a level the basis of the side would still likely be players he signed and/or nurtured, like Ash, Gabby and Delph.  If we're playing CL football in two or three years time, how many of that side will be players he left with us?   

My own feeling is that he'll be seen as the nearly man, but the extra bit that was needed was probably beyond him.  Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on were we go from here, as it will either be a case of our best chance watsed or, should we get a top man in and Randy provides the cash, the transitional period between a struggling and a truely successful side. 

In truth I can see us still having the same pro/anti MON arguments for years to come, but from a neutral perspective I think he'll be viewed as having done a good job and left us in a strong position (timing aside) to get to where we want to go.

[Toronto Villa]

For me, his legacy is tarnished by his exit. I agree with a lot of what you have said. I was pro-MON for the great majority of his time here, and stand by my view that he did far more good for the club than bad. But things clearly were turning sour in the last 9 months leading up to his exit. It's a shame that many of us will primarily remember his exit and dismiss some of the good things he did for us, but that's a right we all have and quite honestly something he brought on himself.

I'm looking forward now anyway to bigger and better things.

[TheSandman]

I agree that his reputation with the support by his exit.

He was the nearly man yes but he gave us a solid base. I think the problem was that he lingered too long. If you look at the improvement over the first three seasons where we went from the cusp of relegation (albeit with an incompetent wanker as a manager) to challenging the top four. Had he left at the end of season 2008/09 his tenure would be viewed as a great period of improvement and consolidation. The clubs stock would have been high and we had a promising base of a squad which would have been a great draw for the new manager. Last season we improved, make no mistake, but it was very much the same again like a soap opera long overdue for cancellation, the foibles and flaws that had been overlooked began to grate with some of us and that began to damage the legacy.

The problem of high earning, seldom playing squad players is also a big one. Curtis Davies, Habib Beye, Nigel Reo-Coker, Emile Heskey, Luke Young and Steve Sidwell are by no means all bad players but because they didn't play their stock is low and hence we have struggled to sell them. It could come to the point where some amongst those ironically the players we least want to keep we will be stuck with until their contracts expire. This will have an absolutely chronic effect upon the club's finances. We are not Man City and we simply cannot afford these players' wages AND the new players needed most to take us forward together.

Also, the idea of the solid base and the man who built the foundations of a successful Villa side is nearly repudiated by the way he left at the time that was most damaging to the club. I'm not sure it is the act of an embittered and vindictive man or if he just felt it was for the best that he left as he lacked the desire to go on or indeed if he could not feel he could deliver with some of the financial constraints alleged in some quarters (I still believe this is a myth peddled by the press).

But, no. For me I respect the solid base and whilst I am a little concerned with the wage issue and the current situation at the club I look to him as the nearly man. Nearly finishing fourth, nearly winning the league cup and getting within one match of competing in the final of the big one. Nearly. Nearly. Nearly.

I just feel had he left having built that solid base and had we got a manager who whilst not necessarily better but who had a different ethos we could have done more and he could be the man who built the foundations of a successful Villa team. Instead he is the nearly man and even then a nearly man who has left what could be a bitter rather than bountiful harvest.

[dave.woodhall]

Everything he did has to be looked at in the context of having perfect working conditions. A board who didn't interfere, a lot of money to spend, a supporter base that bordered on idolatry and an uncritical press. For the only time in my Villa-supporting life everyone was on the same side and working towards a common goal. Optimism was at record levels and the sky really did seem the limit.

[darren woolley]

It's a shame that he will be remember'd for the way he left us and not what he did for us improved season on season at least i can remember the good times.

[hawkeye]

I started haveing doubts during his second season, having been excited by his appointment and the changes that he made, it felt like we were a force again.
He did give us some great performances, Old Trafford, Emirates, Goddison.
I think he wasted our best opportunity to break into the top 4 through stuborness,  one dimensional playing style and some awfully bad decisions in the transfer market.
He leaves us with an unsustainable wage structure and a number of players that are not good enough and will continue to hold the club back.

[barrysleftfoot]

   A bit like BFRs reign for me.

   An exciting appointment, lifted the club, lifted the crowd, attracted good players who would not normally have come to us.Tapered off over time, but unlike BFR, MON left a much better squad.

  For all his faults, and he had a few, he left us with some really top quality players, the next appointment has a great opportunity, much better than BL had when he took over BFR.

  So overall a 7.5/10 for me.

[hawkeye]

here is a MON team
Carson
Beye
Davies
Shorey
NRC
Salifou
Sidwell
Downing
Routledge
Harewood
Heskey

I reckon that has cost about £80 to £100 million in fees wages and transfers.
This team would get relegated

[TheSandman]

You forgot to put some of the players out of position!

[hilts_coolerking]

here is a MON team
Carson
Beye
Davies
Shorey
NRC
Salifou
Sidwell
Downing
Routledge
Harewood
Heskey

I reckon that has cost about £80 to £100 million in fees wages and transfers.
This team would get relegated

It would with only one recognised centre back, but then playing players out of position was something of a MON hallmark.

[hawkeye]

You forgot to put some of the players out of position!

obviously i have carson up front and harewood in goal

[Concrete John]

here is a MON team
Carson
Beye
Davies
Shorey
NRC
Salifou
Sidwell
Downing
Routledge
Harewood
Heskey

I reckon that has cost about £80 to £100 million in fees wages and transfers.
This team would get relegated

You know, you could try and pick a side that didn't have all the worst players he bought if you liked.  How many sides 2nd 11 would be able to survive in the PL?  Only 3 or 4, IMO.

[Eigentor]

I think we will view him as a good manager. However, both in 2009 and 2010 we had a very good chance of qualifying for Champions League but didn't. In 2009 because of an extraordinary loss of form at the end of the season. In 2010 because of too many home draws (some will say negative tactics). When there was no more money to spend, he ran out of ideas of how to improve the team.

The manner and timing of his leaving will taint his reputation. Also, it seems that he has left some skeletons behind in the closet. He alienated a lot of the players he signed (Reo-Coker, Davies etc), and had given a lot of average players long-term contracts on high salaries -- leaving us in a less than ideal situation financially.

[sfx412]

He certainly didn't live up to the continual billing his fans like the author of the thread  propagated, his exit was a disgrace, and typical of the selfish egotist he is.
As Dave said he had ideal conditions and achieved at best a 6th place finish which for the total spend he had was disappointing at best and failure at worst.
The timing of his departure whatever the reason could be very detrimental to the short, possibly medium term future of the club, so even assuming he achieved something and he did, its all water under the bridge and murky smelly water at that.
In the end all his promises meant nothing, all the support he was given was thrown back in his supporters faces, and still they cling on.
Water under the bridge time to move on I'm repeatedly told, does that only apply if you feel the need to criticise his departure and the manner of it, seems so.
Its now all about damage limitation, here's hoping Randy makes the right choice, he seems to me to have Villa's future at heart, unlike O'Neill who has one thing at heart.
O'Neill.

[Concrete John]

He certainly didn't live up to the continual billing his fans like the author of the thread  propagated

Sorry, feeding times over for today!