The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[Dave]

If the previous manager had made good use of the funds available chances are 'arry wouldn't have taken over a side scraping about at the arse end of the table. Or taken over at all.

Whilst the above makes logical sense, Ramos (and Jol before him) didn't have anything to do with player transfers which were in the hands of Comolli (and Arnesen before him).

[Dave Cooper please]

Once again Chris's whole argument revolves around one word of hyperbole that someone happened to say, so because someone said "wonders" Chris can argue that because "wonders" isn't true it means Redknapp was actually nothing more than average! Astonishing really (oops, sorry, not astonishing, that would be hyperbole, I meant bollocks).

Redknapp is a better manager than O'Neill, that's the crux of it.

[Villa'Zawg]

There is plenty of taking bollocks going on but isn't coming from Chris.

It would have made more sense to simply agree with Chris that Redknapp had done a decent job but hadn't "worked wonders".

[KevinGage]

To you maybe, as you both share the same narrow (and increasingly perplexing) point of view.


You are both like a dog with a bone, cannot let it go. And cannot bear -even now- any criticism of MON.

I'm just surprised (though quite relieved) that you haven't dug up any cack handed stats to justify your weak argument. I assume it's because none actually exist.

[hilts_coolerking]

There is plenty of taking bollocks going on and it isn't just coming from Chris.

There, tidied that up for you.

[TheTimVilla]

Why isn't the accumuated value a good barometer of the quality of the squad?

You cunningly missed out the word "alone" there.  Because there a number of other factors that should be taken into account.

Risso et Monsieur Chien arguing financial semantics. Let's do the timewarp again!

[KevinGage]

[

If the previous manager had made good use of the funds available chances are 'arry wouldn't have taken over a side scraping about at the arse end of the table. Or taken over at all.

Whilst the above makes logical sense, Ramos (and Jol before him) didn't have anything to do with player transfers which were in the hands of Comolli (and Arnesen before him).

True to an extent.

Comoli organised the transfers, but there was input from the manager of the time.

How much input exactly is open to question.

This model worked so well that when 'arry took over they ditched it and gave him sole control over transfers. Which would again perhaps indicate that the club wasn't in such great shape at the time and needed a change of direction.

The wrong appointment at that time could have seen them dropping out of the league. To hear some on here you'd think 'arry inherited a squad on a par with Brazil 1970, and all he had to do to be successful was turn up. Or not 'fcuk it up.'

Again, they had some talented individuals but very little backbone. The squad as a whole was unbalanced and they were getting turned over with increasing regularity. When that kind of rot sets in it's very hard to reverse the trend.

[Dave Cooper please]

It would have made more sense to simply agree with Chris that Redknapp had done a decent job but hadn't "worked wonders".

Better than O'Neill though.

[KevinGage]

It would have made more sense to simply agree with Chris even if you strongly disagree.

In VD world perhaps.

[barrysleftfoot]

   Compare the squad MON took over, to the squad HR took over, and then tell me who done the better job to get into the top6.

  When was the last time a HR signing was sold for £28m?

  Now can we put this , whos better MON or HR to bed, MON left us Milner, AYoung, Delph.I am quite happy with that.We have the basis of a very good team, if Hou moves us on then we won't be far off the top 4 again.

[hilts_coolerking]

   Compare the squad MON took over, to the squad HR took over, and then tell me who done the better job to get into the top6.

Redknapp didn't just get into the top 6 and plateau there though did he? He didn't just get Spurs into the top 6 - he got them into the Champions League, inside two years.

In the two seasons it took Redknapp to lift Spurs from the foot of the Premier League to the Champions League, O'Neill didn't move this club any further forward at all.

[Monty]

I think it's certainly fair to say that the squad 'Arry took over needed some tweaking, whereas the squad MON inherited needed drastic overhaul, and that we're now not too far off the stage that Spurs were when 'Arry took over there (anyone who argues that they weren't horrendously under-achieving is surely wrong). The question is, though, would MON have done what 'Arry managed to do in pulling off those tweaks required to take us to a position where, if a club like Liverpool have a mare this season, we'd be able to take advantage? MON had us playing slightly above our level (the level which was partially his fault, with his less than astute transfer policy) and Redknapp took over a side desperately under-achieving and managed to get them playing to their admittedly high level. They're two different skills and the jobs aren't particularly comparable, but if the rumours (Keane, McGeady) are true, then I'm far from convinced MON had the right ideas to take us to that fabled 'next level'.

[Chris Smith]

However you try to dress it up it isn't "working wonders" to finish 4th with the squad of players he has to choose from.

It certainly is, particularly if your idea of a good job is finishing no higher than 6th after spending £120M.

As Ron has pointed out he's got a squad that cost almost twice as much as ours. He's done well, if he wins something then he'll have done very well but it still won't be working wonders.

You don't seem to understand the concept of net spend.  Yes their squad cost more, but then they've also had an awful lot of high profile sales as well.

Totally irrelevant other than from an accountants point of view.

Redknapp has a squad of players to choose from that cost £190m to assemble.

Our manager, when he finally arrives, will have a squad of players to choose from that cost £109m to assemble.

Do you not understand? They have a stronger squad than us as they've spent more on it because whereas we've only been investing for 4 years they've been at it for much longer.

Just because you don't understand the concept of "net spend", doesn't make it irrelevant I'm afraid. 

If we were to sell Ashley Young and Agbonlahor for say, £40m, and went out and spent the same amount on Darren Bent and Lennon, we'd be no better off player wise, but we'd have £40m in our amount spent column.  Using your limited understanding of the situation, because we'd spent £40m, we should automatically be better off, when of course we'd have two very similar players.  That's why "net spend" is relevant.

What a pathetic post.

You're "concept of net spend" is totally irrelevant to the football argument. When picking his side to get to 4th place what Spurs show in the accounts makes no odds whatsoever. We're talking about the job Droopy has done at Spurs in getting to 4th not in satisfying an accountants wet dream. With a squad of players that cost around £200m that's a good but not great achievement.

[barrysleftfoot]

   To be fair Monty, i think you are bang on.

   Our squad now, is equivalent of the squad HR took over at Spuds.Indeed, we do need a bit of tweaking, as did Spuds.Hats off to HR for being able to buy the right players to get into the top 4, you could argue that MON resigned because he was'nt given the opportunity to "tweak".

  In that respect Hou might not be a bad appointment, the old head, Knowing, experienced, a bit like HR, Hopefully he might be given the funds to "tweak"....we are not far off any of the top 6, we should just believe a bit more.

[Risso]

  When was the last time a HR signing was sold for £28m?

  Now can we put this , whos better MON or HR to bed, MON left us Milner, AYoung, Delph.I am quite happy with that.We have the basis of a very good team, if Hou moves us on then we won't be far off the top 4 again.

Firstly, Harry Redknapp has lots of players he signed who have been sold at vast profits, eg Glen Johnson (sold for £18m), Muntari (£13m) and Diarra (£20m).  Secondly, how many players has Redknapp signed that were a total waste of money like Curtis Davies (£10m) and Stewart Downing (£12m)?

Finally, O'Neill left us Milner did he?  Remind me where he's playing again.