The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[Chris Smith]

It's quite bizarre to see people using against Redknapp the fact that Spurs (Champions League group phase qualified Spurs) "only" drew  at a newly promoted club when we (booted out of the Europa League at the first stage by the same club as last year) got beaten 6-0 at a newly promoted club.

The same newly promoted club who today lost 2-0 to the weakest of the newly promoted clubs.

It's also interesting to see the decrying of "only" improving on Jol's performance by one place as not a signficant achievement, especially when you consider that that one place was the one they needed to qualify for the Champions League.

Oh, and it is extra amusing when it is done by the same people who until recently were pointing at our own year on year improvement of two points whilst remaining in the same financial position as a real achievement.

He's done well but to call getting an expensively assembled team to 4th place in a season where Liverpool flopped "working wonders" is obviously emotional nonsense. 

Drawing at Albion after losing at home to Wigan would have people like you, Risso and Hilts incandescent with rage if those results had happened under O'Neill's tenure at Villa.

[Risso]

Redknapp improved one place on Jol's last two full seasons even by internet hyperbole standards to class that as working wonders is pushing it.

Ignoring the fact that of course he didn't take over when they were in 4th, that one all important place could completely transform their club.

[Chris Smith]

Redknapp improved one place on Jol's last two full seasons even by internet hyperbole standards to class that as working wonders is pushing it.

Ignoring the fact that of course he didn't take over when they were in 4th, that one all important place could completely transform their club.

He took over largely the same group of players though.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's quite bizarre to see people using against Redknapp the fact that Spurs (Champions League group phase qualified Spurs) "only" drew  at a newly promoted club when we (booted out of the Europa League at the first stage by the same club as last year) got beaten 6-0 at a newly promoted club.

The same newly promoted club who today lost 2-0 to the weakest of the newly promoted clubs.

It's also interesting to see the decrying of "only" improving on Jol's performance by one place as not a signficant achievement, especially when you consider that that one place was the one they needed to qualify for the Champions League.

Oh, and it is extra amusing when it is done by the same people who until recently were pointing at our own year on year improvement of two points whilst remaining in the same financial position as a real achievement.

He's done well but to call getting an expensively assembled team to 4th place in a season where Liverpool flopped "working wonders" is obviously emotional nonsense. 

Drawing at Albion after losing at home to Wigan would have people like you, Risso and Hilts incandescent with rage if those results had happened under O'Neill's tenure at Villa.

They did happen under O'Neill's tenure at Villa.

The difference is, Redknapp has got Spurs into the Champions League, and then into the group stages. When a manager does that, it is natural that he gets cut a lot of slack.

And if we're in the realm of "if x had happened, you, other poster and other poster would have said y", had MON improved our league position by one place and got us into the champions league, you would have been at Cofton Park when the Pope turns up, begging him to beatify him.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

I'm at a loss Chris, as to how you can decry what Redknapp has achieved and say he is 'all mouth'
They were relegation candidates, now they're in the Champions League.
A remarkable achievement.

Although I concede, that as a person, i'm not keen on him.

[hilts_coolerking]

He's done well but to call getting an expensively assembled team to 4th place in a season where Liverpool flopped "working wonders" is obviously emotional nonsense. 

Actually, denying it is nonsense. He took over a team that was short on form and confidence and within two seasons got them into the Champions League. In four years, despite enjoying major funds and total control, O'Neill couldn't do any better than sixth. So if you think that constitutes O'Neill doing a terrific job at Villa, which you obviously do, it's difficult to argue that Redknapp hasn't done a better job at Spurs. Although, predictably, you are doing exactly that.

[Risso]

Redknapp improved one place on Jol's last two full seasons even by internet hyperbole standards to class that as working wonders is pushing it.

Ignoring the fact that of course he didn't take over when they were in 4th, that one all important place could completely transform their club.

He took over largely the same group of players though.

And O'Neill took over a group of players who had also finished 6th, so by your argument, to do the same as O'Leary means he must have been fucking dreadful.

[Chris Smith]

I'm at a loss Chris, as to how you can decry what Redknapp has achieved and say he is 'all mouth'
They were relegation candidates, now they're in the Champions League.
A remarkable achievement.

Although I concede, that as a person, i'm not keen on him.

They were only relegation candidates because the last manager was so shit, he'd taken a squad that had finished 5th twice in a row and fucked it up.

Redknapp has done a decent job, but all he'd done is get an expensive squad to 4th place. Since when has that been working wonders?

[Chris Smith]

Redknapp improved one place on Jol's last two full seasons even by internet hyperbole standards to class that as working wonders is pushing it.

Ignoring the fact that of course he didn't take over when they were in 4th, that one all important place could completely transform their club.

He took over largely the same group of players though.

And O'Neill took over a group of players who had also finished 6th, so by your argument, to do the same as O'Leary means he must have been fucking dreadful.

No, he didn't.

He's done well but to call getting an expensively assembled team to 4th place in a season where Liverpool flopped "working wonders" is obviously emotional nonsense. 

Actually, denying it is nonsense. He took over a team that was short on form and confidence and within two seasons got them into the Champions League. In four years, despite enjoying major funds and total control, O'Neill couldn't do any better than sixth. So if you think that constitutes O'Neill doing a terrific job at Villa, which you obviously do, it's difficult to argue that Redknapp hasn't done a better job at Spurs. Although, predictably, you are doing exactly that.

Both managers did a pretty good job, neither worked wonders.

[KevinGage]

There really wasn't a huge amount between the Newcastle side that went down in 2009 and the Tottenham side that were down around the arse end of the table for a good stretch of the same campaign.

Both had good, talented individuals. But both sides were also chronically unbalanced, with some absolute shit in the squad too.

In the end Newcastle suffered from the whole Kinnear farce, Given leaving and all the rest of it. Tottenham signed Palacios and Defoe in Jan and that took them to mid-table.

It could have genuinely gone either way for them that year, so to play down 'arrys achievements since then(much as I dislike the bloke) is doing him a major disservice.

[hilts_coolerking]

I'm at a loss Chris, as to how you can decry what Redknapp has achieved and say he is 'all mouth'
They were relegation candidates, now they're in the Champions League.
A remarkable achievement.

Although I concede, that as a person, i'm not keen on him.

They were only relegation candidates because the last manager was so shit, he'd taken a squad that had finished 5th twice in a row and fucked it up.

Redknapp has done a decent job, but all he'd done is get an expensive squad to 4th place. Since when has that been working wonders?

You say "4th place" as if all it represents is one place higher than 5th, whereas we all know that for clubs of our level 4th represents something of a holy grail, rightly or wrongly.

You're not obliged to rate Redknapp so none of this would matter if you didn't at the same time rate Martin O'Neill very highly, despite him taking an expensive squad - and it is an expensive squad - no higher than 6th, in four attempts.

Redknapp has done a better job in a shorter time at Spurs than O'Neill managed at Villa. That's all there is to it.

[ronshirt]

According to wikipedia:

cost of Spurs squad - £190m

cost of Villa squad - £109m

both approx with a couple of guesses.

I would like us to copy Tottenham's policy of investment in lower league players: Bale - £5m, Huddlestone - £3m, Lennon - £1m.

[KevinGage]

Aye.

We've missed a trick there.

They don't always work out (see Andy Reid and Simon Davies) but even if they don't the hit you take financially isn't as bad.

When they come off you save yourself a small fortune.

[Risso]

Redknapp improved one place on Jol's last two full seasons even by internet hyperbole standards to class that as working wonders is pushing it.

Ignoring the fact that of course he didn't take over when they were in 4th, that one all important place could completely transform their club.

He took over largely the same group of players though.

And O'Neill took over a group of players who had also finished 6th, so by your argument, to do the same as O'Leary means he must have been fucking dreadful.

No, he didn't.

Angel, Barry, Delaney, Hendrie, McCann, Mellberg, Moore, Ridgewell, Samuel, Sorensen and Whittingham were all still at the club when O'Neill took over.  All were at the club in O'Leary's 6th placed season.

[Chris Smith]

I'm at a loss Chris, as to how you can decry what Redknapp has achieved and say he is 'all mouth'
They were relegation candidates, now they're in the Champions League.
A remarkable achievement.

Although I concede, that as a person, i'm not keen on him.

They were only relegation candidates because the last manager was so shit, he'd taken a squad that had finished 5th twice in a row and fucked it up.

Redknapp has done a decent job, but all he'd done is get an expensive squad to 4th place. Since when has that been working wonders?

You say "4th place" as if all it represents is one place higher than 5th, whereas we all know that for clubs of our level 4th represents something of a holy grail, rightly or wrongly.

You're not obliged to rate Redknapp so none of this would matter if you didn't at the same time rate Martin O'Neill very highly, despite him taking an expensive squad - and it is an expensive squad - no higher than 6th, in four attempts.

Redknapp has done a better job in a shorter time at Spurs than O'Neill managed at Villa. That's all there is to it.

However you try to dress it up it isn't "working wonders" to finish 4th with the squad of players he has to choose from.