The legacy of Martin O'Neill

[old man villa fan]

The fact is, other than MON's 1st team, what other options did we have all over the pitch.  This can only be viewed as an average return on the money he spent.

I just can't agree with the frame of mind that sees our opinions of his squad options as a return for the money spent.  The return is the W/D/L figures, league position and any trophies.

   

John, you have taken my comment out of context, the topic is 'The legacy of Martin O'Neill'.  My comment was about what he has left for his successor, not what his achievements were.

I stand by my comment that other than his 1st team we are looking short of quality and options and, as seen in the last two matches, we are looking spineless because after 4 years we are still lacking a strong midfield leader.  Granted we have just received £25m for Milner but that was a 'right time, right place' transfer when his true value was probably about £6m up on what we paid for him.

I still believe that what MON has left for the next manager in the form of the squad is only an average return on the money spent.  Money spent is not just for today i.e. short term results but also for the future in continuing and improving the team/squad.

[Dave]

The fact is, other than MON's 1st team, what other options did we have all over the pitch.  This can only be viewed as an average return on the money he spent.

I just can't agree with the frame of mind that sees our opinions of his squad options as a return for the money spent.  The return is the W/D/L figures, league position and any trophies.

   

Granted we have just received £25m for Milner but that was a 'right time, right place' transfer when his true value was probably about £6m up on what we paid for him.

You see, I can't get on board with this.

£6m up on what we paid is what Man Utd paid individually for Nani, Anderson and Carrick. I'd rather have Milner than all three of them.

Player values are absolutely ridiculous, but if the likes of the three above are going for what is the going market rate I don't think Milner was undervalued at all.

[old man villa fan]

The fact is, other than MON's 1st team, what other options did we have all over the pitch.  This can only be viewed as an average return on the money he spent.

I just can't agree with the frame of mind that sees our opinions of his squad options as a return for the money spent.  The return is the W/D/L figures, league position and any trophies.

   

Granted we have just received £25m for Milner but that was a 'right time, right place' transfer when his true value was probably about £6m up on what we paid for him.

You see, I can't get on board with this.

£6m up on what we paid is what Man Utd paid individually for Nani, Anderson and Carrick. I'd rather have Milner than all three of them.

Player values are absolutely ridiculous, but if the likes of the three above are going for what is the going market rate I don't think Milner was undervalued at all.

And Ozil and Khedira?

What would any other team have paid for Milner?

Anyway, to save the arguement, let's split the difference, say £10m over what we paid.  Again, that is not the main point of my original comment and that is the legacy of the playing staff left by MON (plus the profit on Milner!)

[pauliewalnuts]

MON got some of his signings very, very right - Ashley Young and James Milner being the obvious two. Then there were quite a few decent ones - Carew, Collins, Dunne and others. Then there ok ones, such as Friedel, Luke Young, Warnock. Then there were some really, really shit ones - Harewood, Heskey, Sidwell et al.

In that respect he is like all managers, gets some wrong, gets some right, and I guess we will all have differing views on how in the black his "transfer credit" was.

What I do think caught up with him was his insistence on buying pretty much exclusively players already playing in Britain. I never really understood that. I take on board the argument that they are less likely not to settle, but it is an incredibly over-inflated market (fees AND salaries) to be operating in, and to operate in it exclusively is baffling.

If you look at the squad now, and the wider "reduce the wage bill" issue, you can see the negative part of his legacy - and one which was flagged up on here by various people - that we had an imbalance of expensive, British bought, high earning, relatively unused players, and that some of these were on big contracts and really weren't up to much. I understand that is how he left Celtic as well.

I don't really know why he found it so unacceptable to be asked to do something about the wage bill - all managers have to juggle resources, that is one of the things that sorts the really good ones from the rest, their ability to make things work - to "manage". One thing that does strike me, though, is that if he'd gone shopping abroad more often, where you get more bang for your buck and players will take lower wages, maybe we wouldn't be left with the likes of Heskey, Davies, Beye, Sidwell et all hosing down huge amounts in salary for very little return.

[Fasth56]

Not sure if what I have got to say has been covered previously because I can't be arsed to read the five pages, i was talking to a Leicester fan today who put forward the theory that when MON leaves a club they go into decline and he cited both Leicester and Celtic as examples. This theory was backed up by a Sunderland fan with no axe to grind. I think there is pain to be had before the gain is realised!

[villa for life]

maybe...but doesn't that say more about him...when any manager leaves a company, their true colours are revealed...if they care about the place, they will do the right thing, give the appropriate time for the company to find a replacement, help in the handover etc.. and then there are those managers who want the replacement to fail, so that their own reputation is enhanced and they are even more revered...

personally, if we are 6-0 down again this weekend, I'd like someone to hold up a sign with the words "but we still don't want you back" written on it.

[Villa'Zawg]

maybe...but doesn't that say more about him...when any manager leaves a company, their true colours are revealed...if they care about the place, they will do the right thing, give the appropriate time for the company to find a replacement, help in the handover etc.. and then there are those managers who want the replacement to fail, so that their own reputation is enhanced and they are even more revered...

personally, if we are 6-0 down again this weekend, I'd like someone to hold up a sign with the words "but we still don't want you back" written on it.

The way O'Neill left the club definitely does say something about him but there are also people who leave their job immediately because they find themselves placed in an untenable position. If he left in the way he did because he was finding it difficult to cope with agreed budget cuts, then he's a loser. If it was because of firm promises being broken or having his decision making responsibilities over-ridden, then he may have been justified.

[ez]

Nearly man. Close but no cigar. Highest spending villa manager. In years to come he won't be one of the best remembered villa managers as we didn't win a trophy under him.

[Meanwood Villa]

when MON leaves a club they go into decline and he cited both Leicester and Celtic as examples.

Celtic won the league for 3 seasons in a row for the first time since the Jock Stein era in the seasons immediately after MON left so I'm not sure about going into decline.

[jembob]

when MON leaves a club they go into decline and he cited both Leicester and Celtic as examples.

Celtic won the league for 3 seasons in a row for the first time since the Jock Stein era in the seasons immediately after MON left so I'm not sure about going into decline.

And Strachan got them playing good football for the first time in years.

[TheSandman]

Strachan also weeded out all the high earning players he was stuck with. It did take him four years to get rid of Bobo Balde mind.

My Uncle had a Legacy. It leaked oil and burned the mechanics bald head when it was getting a service!

[Rudy Can't Fail]

maybe...but doesn't that say more about him...when any manager leaves a company, their true colours are revealed...if they care about the place, they will do the right thing, give the appropriate time for the company to find a replacement, help in the handover etc.. and then there are those managers who want the replacement to fail, so that their own reputation is enhanced and they are even more revered...

personally, if we are 6-0 down again this weekend, I'd like someone to hold up a sign with the words "but we still don't want you back" written on it.

The way O'Neill left the club definitely does say something about him but there are also people who leave their job immediately because they find themselves placed in an untenable position.

Agreed. Nick Leeson for one. (winky)

[sfx412]

I hope we go into the same decline Celtic did. Considering they were spent out had Strachan in charge and too many over paid players at the end of their careers that needed shifting at huge losses Strachan did ok to win more than Mon did.
We should be fine if Randy gets in someone better than Strachan and lets face it, that shouldn't be hard even for someone who allegedly knows nothing about football.
Mon knew he'd been found out, he knew he couldn't keep spending his way out of the problems his limitations caused and he ran at the first chance he got.
Now even the interim manager admits there were plenty of disgruntled players thankful for his exit was the thought of more player revolts too much for his ego.
He did an average job for a huge spend what remains as his legacy is a club in need of TLC and a wise experienced head. Even then I doubt it will be easy.

[villa for life]

What's Strachan doing now?

[midnite]

Manager of middlesbrough