The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[QBVILLA]

It was that blatant even Fergie said after the game it was a red card. Phil fecking Dowd.

[pauliewalnuts]

The atmosphere was incredible.

The Tarquins however, sat there in plastic silence with a sense of entitlement. c***s.

My Dad, who is a nose, texted me during the match, he was watching it at home, and said the noise generated by the Villa fans was remarkable, and you barely heard a peep from the tarquins.

[Meanwood Villa]

If you take the domestic cups under MON I think the best side we beat were probably Sunderland in the LC 2010 when we won on penalties up there. Which says it all really. Anyone decent and we lost.

That's an interesting point. I'm mentally going through cup runs under MON and I think you're right. Arguably Blackburn were on a level with Sunderland in 2010 but nothing to compare with beating Citeh this year even. Of course in the interests of balance we also never lost to a 4th Division team over 2 legs...

[pauliewalnuts]

If you take the domestic cups under MON I think the best side we beat were probably Sunderland in the LC 2010 when we won on penalties up there. Which says it all really. Anyone decent and we lost.

That's an interesting point. I'm mentally going through cup runs under MON and I think you're right. Arguably Blackburn were on a level with Sunderland in 2010 but nothing to compare with beating Citeh this year even. Of course in the interests of balance we also never lost to a 4th Division team over 2 legs...

That's the crazy thing about this season, and is also something that makes me even more convinced that confidence is a big part of things at Villa this year.

We went to Manchester City and won, putting four past them, and then went to Carrow Road and did the same thing. One of those is a place pretty much nobody has won at for the last two years, and the other is far from an easy place to go and win.

Then we make it easy for a fourth division side to get past us.

The second half of the second leg of the semi, Lambert got it spectacularly wrong with his tactics, but really, the other game and a half was about our fragile confidence.

[frank]

Sunderland was a memorable night but I think Blackburn in the semi was a better performance. Against Sunderland, Guzan won it for us with a penalty save in normal time, a decisive save later and then the 3 saved penalties in the shoot-out. It's not as though we dominated the game.
I think the best victory under MON in a cup was Ajax, but all the other European games were pretty dire.

[eamonn]

I remember very little about that Chelsea game...almost as much of a non-event as the Cup Final against them a decade before. The whole "if Gabby had been given a penalty" in that game and "if Vidic had been sent off" in the League Cup final a few weeks earlier always seemed a bit straw-clutching to me and that we were still thinking like a small team hoping to get a break against the giants rather than seeing them as competitors/near equals which I thought the whole point of that stage in our ascent under O'Neill was.

O'Neill's whole ethos and character is suited to that of a plucky manager at a club in thrall to the big boys.

I'd buy that more if the Vidic tackle hadn't deserved a straight red.  99% of the time a tackle like that, in that situation, is a red card.  That he wasn't even booked which meant he could carry on kicking lumps out of us until he finally did get booked in the 2nd half.  That's why a lot of fans still cling to that one, the whole game could've changed if the ref hadn't bottled out of a fairly simple decision: Was it a foul? Was he the last man? Was Gabby through with a clear goalscoring chance if he wasn't fouled?  Yes to all 3 is a red card.

There is nothing of thinking like a small team about that, no one can know what would've happened afterwards and we might still have lost but being pissed off at a terrible decision isn't limited to small teams, Fergie bitches about the ref every time they lose (although probably mostly in a "I'm dropping him next week after that" way).

That's fair enough, it's just the assertion that we had to get a break like that for us to even have a chance of winning. We'd played them in the league at VP a few weeks earlier and Nani was sent-off early on yet they had the better chances after that and the game finished level. We got a penalty out of the Vidic challenge and we didn't look like scoring for the rest of the game so I don't feel as strongly as most do, legitimately as you described, with regards to the non-sending off.

[badminton]

Article published today on the woes on Wearside

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/mar/18/sunderland-ellis-short-ambitions

[Ads]

Sunderland was a memorable night but I think Blackburn in the semi was a better performance. Against Sunderland, Guzan won it for us with a penalty save in normal time, a decisive save later and then the 3 saved penalties in the shoot-out. It's not as though we dominated the game.
I think the best victory under MON in a cup was Ajax, but all the other European games were pretty dire.

Prague was a good trip.

The first game we have won away in the Waffa Cup proper since we beat Celta Vigo.

[frank]

Article published today on the woes on Wearside

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blo

Sunderland fans are concerned about his reluctance to rotate players ("We don't rotate like Manchester United but we need to give players a bit of a rest occasionally," O'Neill says), switch formations from his default 4-4-1-1 or drop under-achievers such as their former England winger, Johnson, who has started every league game when fit. There is a sense that the team lacks a coherent vision or philosophy.

Sounds familiar!

[Tony Boucher]

I remember very little about that Chelsea game...almost as much of a non-event as the Cup Final against them a decade before. The whole "if Gabby had been given a penalty" in that game and "if Vidic had been sent off" in the League Cup final a few weeks earlier always seemed a bit straw-clutching to me and that we were still thinking like a small team hoping to get a break against the giants rather than seeing them as competitors/near equals which I thought the whole point of that stage in our ascent under O'Neill was.

O'Neill's whole ethos and character is suited to that of a plucky manager at a club in thrall to the big boys.

I'd buy that more if the Vidic tackle hadn't deserved a straight red.  99% of the time a tackle like that, in that situation, is a red card.  That he wasn't even booked which meant he could carry on kicking lumps out of us until he finally did get booked in the 2nd half.  That's why a lot of fans still cling to that one, the whole game could've changed if the ref hadn't bottled out of a fairly simple decision: Was it a foul? Was he the last man? Was Gabby through with a clear goalscoring chance if he wasn't fouled?  Yes to all 3 is a red card.

There is nothing of thinking like a small team about that, no one can know what would've happened afterwards and we might still have lost but being pissed off at a terrible decision isn't limited to small teams, Fergie bitches about the ref every time they lose (although probably mostly in a "I'm dropping him next week after that" way).

That's fair enough, it's just the assertion that we had to get a break like that for us to even have a chance of winning. We'd played them in the league at VP a few weeks earlier and Nani was sent-off early on yet they had the better chances after that and the game finished level. We got a penalty out of the Vidic challenge and we didn't look like scoring for the rest of the game so I don't feel as strongly as most do, legitimately as you described, with regards to the non-sending off.

Totally agree eamonn - we barely hung on in that league game, when they had 10 men for the last hour!  They still had 56% possession, 12 shots to our 10 & 7 corners to our 1, I seem to recall Rooney being all over us & hitting woodwork.  I am far from convinced we'd have won the final if Vidic had been sent off - although that didn't stop me being furious at the time & bitter to this day.

[eamonn]

It has been said before but MON has significant flaws, including an inflexible approach, failure to rotate squads despite obvious form issues, inability to see beyond set team structures and a dour approach to the game. He is very set in his ways and won't accept any criticism (ask any Villa fans).

A "magnificently appointed, 49,000-capacity home"? Sorry Louise, your blinkered love might be in Wearside but the cheap meccano Stadium is looking more and more like a palace of faded pink empty seats each week.

[pauliewalnuts]

I know we occasionally give away tickets, but Sunderland have been giving away thousands every home game for years, by all accounts.

I was nosing around their forum the other day and a student at the uni there was saying how they always have them kicking around in reception, to help yourself to, and you can literally walk away with handfuls of them.

Added to that, another thing Sunderland do is stick lots of tickets on stubhub (or viagogo, whichever they use) at mentally low prices - 10 or 12 quid a pop - to shift them.

Their ST holders are by all accounts mightily unimpressed that this still happens.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I know we occasionally give away tickets, but Sunderland have been giving away thousands every home game for years, by all accounts.

I was nosing around their forum the other day and a student at the uni there was saying how they always have them kicking around in reception, to help yourself to, and you can literally walk away with handfuls of them.

Added to that, another thing Sunderland do is stick lots of tickets on stubhub (or viagogo, whichever they use) at mentally low prices - 10 or 12 quid a pop - to shift them.

Their ST holders are by all accounts mightily unimpressed that this still happens.

Other than the way season ticket holders are being treated, isn't this a good thing?

[john2710]

I remember very little about that Chelsea game...almost as much of a non-event as the Cup Final against them a decade before. The whole "if Gabby had been given a penalty" in that game and "if Vidic had been sent off" in the League Cup final a few weeks earlier always seemed a bit straw-clutching to me and that we were still thinking like a small team hoping to get a break against the giants rather than seeing them as competitors/near equals which I thought the whole point of that stage in our ascent under O'Neill was.

O'Neill's whole ethos and character is suited to that of a plucky manager at a club in thrall to the big boys.

I'd buy that more if the Vidic tackle hadn't deserved a straight red.  99% of the time a tackle like that, in that situation, is a red card.  That he wasn't even booked which meant he could carry on kicking lumps out of us until he finally did get booked in the 2nd half.  That's why a lot of fans still cling to that one, the whole game could've changed if the ref hadn't bottled out of a fairly simple decision: Was it a foul? Was he the last man? Was Gabby through with a clear goalscoring chance if he wasn't fouled?  Yes to all 3 is a red card.

There is nothing of thinking like a small team about that, no one can know what would've happened afterwards and we might still have lost but being pissed off at a terrible decision isn't limited to small teams, Fergie bitches about the ref every time they lose (although probably mostly in a "I'm dropping him next week after that" way).

That's fair enough, it's just the assertion that we had to get a break like that for us to even have a chance of winning. We'd played them in the league at VP a few weeks earlier and Nani was sent-off early on yet they had the better chances after that and the game finished level. We got a penalty out of the Vidic challenge and we didn't look like scoring for the rest of the game so I don't feel as strongly as most do, legitimately as you described, with regards to the non-sending off.

Totally agree eamonn - we barely hung on in that league game, when they had 10 men for the last hour!  They still had 56% possession, 12 shots to our 10 & 7 corners to our 1, I seem to recall Rooney being all over us & hitting woodwork.  I am far from convinced we'd have won the final if Vidic had been sent off - although that didn't stop me being furious at the time & bitter to this day.

In the game at VP, at that point Rooney was on fire, was practically unplayable & it took the entire back 4 to contain him.

In truth, we never really looked like troubling either Man U or Chlsea in the Wembley games.

[Pat McMahon]

If we'd scored first, or even equalised, the Villa support would have dragged them over the line. The atmosphere was incredible.

That is what my next door neighbour said to me ( he is a Chelsea fan). That added to their sense of worry until the first goal as they were waiting for Chelsea to get the fans going whereas we were willing Villa on raucously.

Re other comments, anybody who thinks all Chelsea fans are "Tarquins" hasn't come across them very much. They still have a big following of their old growlers who are very happy to indulge in shenanigans, as well as a sizeable number of "scarfers" who will chip in if the occasion arises.