The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[N'ZMAV]

Were Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne the sort of players that you envisage getting you to the Champions League, and looking like you belong there?  Were they value for money?  Was a profit made on a single one of them?

Yup, Zat Knight. Bought for £3.5m and sold for £4.5m.

With a big thanks to Gary Megson.

Knight wasn't that bad.

[Dave]

I agree, he was perfectly fine. He goes down in the 'meh' column rather than the success or failure column for O'Neill's signings.

But probably not worth what we paid and definitely not worth what Bolton decided they wanted to give us for him.

[JJ-AV]

Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne

Davies - £5m loss
Cuellar - £7.8m loss
Shorey - £3.5m loss
Collins - £3m loss
Young - not sure what he went for? Signed for £5.5m though wasn't it?
Beye - £1.5m loss
Dunne (assuming he goes on a free in the Summer) - £5m loss

That's not including NRC - £8.5m loss and Heskey - £3.5m loss, Sidwell £4.5m loss.

There's probably others too.

I know you don't expect a return from all transfers, but alot of those were in their prime ages when sold on, with the hike in prices of players we really should have been seeing a return on our investments.

Awful business.

[paul_e]

Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne

Davies - £5m loss
Cuellar - £7.8m loss
Shorey - £3.5m loss
Collins - £3m loss
Young - not sure what he went for? Signed for £5.5m though wasn't it?
Beye - £1.5m loss
Dunne (assuming he goes on a free in the Summer) - £5m loss

That's not including NRC - £8.5m loss and Heskey - £3.5m loss, Sidwell £4.5m loss.

There's probably others too.

I know you don't expect a return from all transfers, but alot of those were in their prime ages when sold on, with the hike in prices of players we really should have been seeing a return on our investments.

Awful business.

young was sold for around 1m as far as I recall.

There are a few numbers that are debatable on the list but effectively that little lot cost us ~£45m in fees, let alone wages paid to a number of them to never see them start and others who we saw no more than 1 good season out of.  All the wasted wages probably pushes the expense to well over £75m.

That money spent better is more than enough to have pushed us into the top 4.

[hawkeye]

I don't see that many are saying he was an abject failure.  Three 6th places and a couple of Wembley appearances isn't abject failure. But  given the money spent, and the achievements of clubs spending less or similar (Spurs and Everton as mentioned) you could certainly make a case for saying he was a relative failure, if not an abject one,  by comparison.

Just look at the two sets of defences he bought after we lost Mellberg, Bouma and Laursen, and he flogged Cahill.  Were Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne the sort of players that you envisage getting you to the Champions League, and looking like you belong there?  Were they value for money?  Was a profit made on a single one of them? Was it ever likely to be? Were any of them even as good as, let alone an improvement on, their predecessors? I think a quick "where are they now?" is quite informative on that matter.     

as usual, posts that are right get ignored, spot on mate. MON failed his disciples try to say it wasn't so, sadly the facts speak louder than their apologetic rhetoric

[WarszaVillan]

I don't see that many are saying he was an abject failure.  Three 6th places and a couple of Wembley appearances isn't abject failure. But  given the money spent, and the achievements of clubs spending less or similar (Spurs and Everton as mentioned) you could certainly make a case for saying he was a relative failure, if not an abject one,  by comparison.

Just look at the two sets of defences he bought after we lost Mellberg, Bouma and Laursen, and he flogged Cahill.  Were Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne the sort of players that you envisage getting you to the Champions League, and looking like you belong there?  Were they value for money?  Was a profit made on a single one of them? Was it ever likely to be? Were any of them even as good as, let alone an improvement on, their predecessors? I think a quick "where are they now?" is quite informative on that matter.     

as usual, posts that are right get ignored, spot on mate. MON failed his disciples try to say it wasn't so, sadly the facts speak louder than their apologetic rhetoric

We repent we repent, oh woe is me

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Salifou £10,000pw on a 3 year contract.
Money down the Khazi.

[Legion]

I don't see that many are saying he was an abject failure.  Three 6th places and a couple of Wembley appearances isn't abject failure. But  given the money spent, and the achievements of clubs spending less or similar (Spurs and Everton as mentioned) you could certainly make a case for saying he was a relative failure, if not an abject one,  by comparison.

Just look at the two sets of defences he bought after we lost Mellberg, Bouma and Laursen, and he flogged Cahill.  Were Davies, Cuellar, Shorey, Knight, Collins, Young, Beye and Dunne the sort of players that you envisage getting you to the Champions League, and looking like you belong there?  Were they value for money?  Was a profit made on a single one of them? Was it ever likely to be? Were any of them even as good as, let alone an improvement on, their predecessors? I think a quick "where are they now?" is quite informative on that matter.     

as usual, posts that are right get ignored, spot on mate. MON failed his disciples try to say it wasn't so, sadly the facts speak louder than their apologetic rhetoric

What a ridiculous statement. Yes, ktvillan makes an excellent set of points that I agree with but to say it is ignored because it is right 'as usual' is ludicrous.

[JUAN PABLO]

He was a failure with the amount of money he had to spend.

[danlanza]

He was a failure with the amount of money he had to spend.

And he is now doing the same at Sunderland.

[Villadroid]

When assessing the failure of the Lerner-O'Neill project it would seem that the best comparison would be with Everton.

There is no real comparison with Spurs because they have been richer than Villa for a long time and that accumulative wealth and a far more glamorous image puts them well above Villa in the recent pecking-order.

Everton represent Villa's closest benchmark because they have roughly the same turnover. History tells us that they have been a much better run club than Villa over the years and avoided the decades of under-achievement which stains Villa's history.

There is no doubting that Moyes is considered a top manager but I don't think this alone accounts for Everton's excellent performance since he arrived a decade ago.

More modest ambitions over a longer timetable and the loyalty of players like Tim Cahill are all factors which have to be taken into account.

Cahill was at Everton for 8 years and is considered his best buy, while Gareth Barry left as soon as his move from pedestrian defender to half decent midfielder, got him noticed.

[eastie]

When assessing the failure of the Lerner-O'Neill project it would seem that the best comparison would be with Everton.

There is no real comparison with Spurs because they have been richer than Villa for a long time and that accumulative wealth and a far more glamorous image puts them well above Villa in the recent pecking-order.

Everton represent Villa's closest benchmark because they have roughly the same turnover. History tells us that they have been a much better run club than Villa over the years and avoided the decades of under-achievement
There is no doubting that Moyes is considered a top manager but I don't think this alone accounts for Everton's excellent performance since he arrived a decade ago.

More modest ambitions over a longer timetable and the loyalty of players like Tim Cahill are all factors which have to be taken into account.

Cahill was at Everton for 8 years and is considered his best buy, while Gareth Barry left as soon as his move from pedestrian defender to half decent midfielder, got him noticed.

When you say Everton have been excellent during moyes 10 year reign can you tell me exactly how many trophies they have won during that time?

I do think though that had moyes had the money to spend that o Neill had then he as a manager would have achieved far more than o Neill did with the cash.

[Risso]

You can do well without winning a trophy Eastie, it's all relative.

[JUAN PABLO]

He was a failure with the amount of money he had to spend.

And he is now doing the same at Sunderland.

It will be his last job , he wont get the chance to ruin another one.

[eastie]

You can do well without winning a trophy Eastie, it's all relative.

Do well yes , but big  difference between doing well and doing excellent  ris.