The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[Witton Warrior]

This thread's gone on for so long that one day we'll have a 'The legend of the legend of MON thread' thread!

We've just learnt off MoN - rememeber when he was at Leicester and kept all the letters from dissenters then wrote to them saying "I told you so"? Chickens roosting. It's cold as well and little vitriol always helps...

[Villadroid]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

The fans were not deceived by MON they knew exactly what they were getting, which was not only explicitly demonstrated at ever club he managed but was pointed out by the sceptics from the beginning.

Claiming that his way of playing was a surprise is disingenuous.

No MON side could ever be described as subtle.

 

So now it's the fault of the club for not knowing what they were taking on in Martin O'Neill.  Marvellous stuff.

Someone told me that people were breaking legs jumping off the MON bandwagon over at H&V. I am sorry I doubted them.

[not3bad]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

The fans were not deceived by MON they knew exactly what they were getting, which was not only explicitly demonstrated at ever club he managed but was pointed out by the sceptics from the beginning.

Claiming that his way of playing was a surprise is disingenuous.

No MON side could ever be described as subtle.

 

So now it's the fault of the club for not knowing what they were taking on in Martin O'Neill.  Marvellous stuff.

Someone told me that people were breaking legs jumping off the MON bandwagon over at H&V. I am sorry I doubted them.

Have you seen the press lately?  They are jumping off the MON bandwagon as well.  If I was you I'd take a trip round Vital Villa, Villa Talk and any Aston Villa supporters group and ask how many are still "on the MON bandwagon".  H & V is not exceptional in this regard.

[pauliewalnuts]

Santa Cruz scored only three goals for man United.

A brilliant record - 3 goals in zero games for Man United

Whoops.

I meant City, obviously.

Any how many did he bag for Blackburn when we opted for Marlon instead, and how many did he bag for us?

[Villadroid]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

The fans were not deceived by MON they knew exactly what they were getting, which was not only explicitly demonstrated at ever club he managed but was pointed out by the sceptics from the beginning.

Claiming that his way of playing was a surprise is disingenuous.

No MON side could ever be described as subtle.

 

So now it's the fault of the club for not knowing what they were taking on in Martin O'Neill.  Marvellous stuff.

Someone told me that people were breaking legs jumping off the MON bandwagon over at H&V. I am sorry I doubted them.

Have you seen the press lately?  They are jumping off the MON bandwagon as well.  If I was you I'd take a trip round Vital Villa, Villa Talk and any Aston Villa supporters group and ask how many are still "on the MON bandwagon".  H & V is not exceptional in this regard.

You are correct, the narrative of the Villa fans is remarkably consistent and to a frightening extent. The same phrases keep coming up, like they have been copying each other's homework, or they had rehearsed the same alibi.

This is always suspicious and reveals something very interesting.

That perhaps a collective such as football fans establish their own shibboleths and decide upon a shared narrative of their history which is the most comforting.

The only way to find out how rigidly held the preferred narrative is, is to disagree.

So all good stuff as far as I am concerned.

[Irish villain]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1433551-more-to-martin-oneills-record-than-meets-the-eye

Has somebody from here written the above article?

[Mazrim]

So you're playing Devil's advocate as some sort of social experiment. How pompous of you.

I think the wheels of the MON bandwagon came off when he spent all our money, petulantly left on the eve of battle taking all his staff and took us to court. That normally does it. Have you been deactivated in the last few years?

[not3bad]

The only way to find out how rigidly held the preferred narrative is, is to disagree.

The theory of gravity is a rigidly held narrative.  You could have a splendid argument about that with lots of references to Newton.

[Mazrim]

- "Things fall on the ground because of gravity."

-- "Indubitably? I was informed that people here thought so. But what about the Audi alteram partem? Only with me making a fool of myself can the argument really be settled one way or the other. My argument flows from the opinion that things dont fall on the ground because of gravity and if you believe it so it's natural to assume that magic is at play. Faulkner is an evil sorcerer.
But I didn't say that. If you disagree with me it's because you haven't read properly and not because I'm talking gash.

[Villadroid]

So you're playing Devil's advocate as some sort of social experiment. How pompous of you.

Not really.

I am of the faith myself but somehow I don't need to parrot the narrative to keep that faith.

I actually think many of the shibboleths are worth challenging.

I actually believed in some of the preferred narratives myself at one time and they persist but some, like the standard Doug Ellis narrative, look less sound as time goes on.

I am probably wrong to expect people to work through their feelings about MON so quickly, because I believe that, like me, the fans are still in mourning over the death of the Lerner dream.

And mourning has to go through a number of stages and even now acceptance is still a long way off.

[not3bad]

So you're playing Devil's advocate as some sort of social experiment. How pompous of you.

Not really.

I am of the faith myself but somehow I don't need to parrot the narrative to keep that faith.

I actually think many of the shibboleths are worth challenging.

I actually believed in some of the preferred narratives myself at one time and they persist but some, like the standard Doug Ellis narrative, look less sound as time goes on.

I am probably wrong to expect people to work through their feelings about MON so quickly, because I believe that, like me, the fans are still in mourning over the death of the Lerner dream.

And mourning has to go through a number of stages and even now acceptance is still a long way off.

Well that showed us you aren't pompous.

[Mazrim]

What "Shibboleths" are you referring to?


You're just taking the piss really aren't you?

[Chris Smith]

So you're playing Devil's advocate as some sort of social experiment. How pompous of you.

I think the wheels of the MON bandwagon came off when he spent all our money, petulantly left on the eve of battle taking all his staff and took us to court. That normally does it. Have you been deactivated in the last few years?

He spent the money he was allowed to by the board, like every other manager.

Petulantly left, yes, and that's his legacy but his staff were his mates and walked out with him. It's not as though they were going to be wanted without him.

He didn't take us to court, but a PL tribunal did find in his favour so presumably he was within his rights.

I think a few of you need to move on, at the moment it seems like hell hath no fury like a Villa fan scorned. It's a pity we made a mess of some subsequent appointments but I'd sooner have Lambert as manager than O'Neill, so we got there eventually, and it's perhaps time we started looking forward.

[Villadroid]

What "Shibboleths" are you referring to?


You're just taking the piss really aren't you?

I certainly am not.

[pauliewalnuts]

He didn't take us to court, but a PL tribunal did find in his favour so presumably he was within his rights.

No it didn't.

MON and the club reached an agreement in the course of the tribunal, there was no finding in anyone's favour.