The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[Villadroid]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

[Dave Cooper please]

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

So it was Lerner's fault that he trusted O'Neill with his money then?

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

Geddis proved himself in the run-up to the Championship by scoring some vital goals when needed.
And Harewood?

[paul_e]

To me it's all about the relative value of signings.

you have to look at each signing and the 'upgrade' they provided in to the team/squad.  MoN's problem was his early signings had a lot of upgrade value, petrov, carew, young, milner all made a big difference to the ability in the squad and pushed us on to the first 6th place finish (some other signings in the first full summer had an effect as well, but nothing like as big as the 4 named).  After that the relative improvement of the squad levelled out.  Too often we bought players who simply weren't going to get a game or were only a marginal improvement, but came with a big fee and big wages.

for Villadroid - I've only just caught up on the pages and pages that have been mentioned before but I have a hypothetical question for you.

When we got heskey do you think MoN will have sold him to the board as the player who could take us to the top 4?
If so how do you think things would've panned out if they'd refused to sign him?
How about Collins?  Dunne?  Warnock?

It's very easy to be critical of the board but as far as I'm concerned the thing they're most guilty of is trusting MoN to spend the money well.  If we'd made the champions league in one of his last 2 seasons all the wage worries, etc would've disappeared so they gambled on him having the ability to get there and let him pay the wages and fees accordingly.

MoN then didn't deliver on his side so they called enough and asked him to clear out the non playing high earners before he could go again.  I'm convinced he left because he was still arguing that he was 1-2 players away from making it but the board just didn't trust him in that last summer.

That the whole thing was built on pillars of sand and on the verge of collapse (leading to 2+ years of papering cracks and eventually rebuilding) mainly means most villa fans now delight in seeing him struggle rather than thinking of him as nearly taking us to the top.

[not3bad]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

[bertlambshank]

Checkmate.

[KevinGage]

Fans seem to base their case against MON on the fact that he paid too dear for some very ordinary players.

So does anyone think that Villa's unfashionable status and the fact that for Villa players the height of glamour on offer is a house on the Four Oaks estate, distorts the market.

 

Fans seem to base their case against MON on the fact that he paid too dear for some very ordinary players.

So does anyone think that Villa's unfashionable status and the fact that for Villa players the height of glamour on offer is a house on the Four Oaks estate, distorts the market.

 

Seeing as we were viewed as a club on the up, with a popular (as was) manager, a billionaire owner (when such things were less in vogue) then no, I don't.

But surely you can't change the perception of a brand overnight and in a sellers market things tend to cost more.

By 2007 Magic Martin had been in the job 12 months, and the world and his wife knew we had cash on the hip. 

Outside of the very elite clubs, we were probably one of if not the biggest draws in the country at that stage, and could have reasonably expected to attract a better calibre of player than Zat Knight, Marlon F Harewood and NRC. 

If we could attract the likes of Laursen, Baros and Bouma pre MON, why could we only attract (or be expected to put up with) worse after his arrival?   Does not compute. 

[Dave]

Fans seem to base their case against MON on the fact that he paid too dear for some very ordinary players.

So does anyone think that Villa's unfashionable status and the fact that for Villa players the height of glamour on offer is a house on the Four Oaks estate, distorts the market.

The week after we bought Harewood Mark Hughes convinced Roque Santa Cruz to move from Bayern Munich to glamorous Blackburn Rovers, for less than we paid for Harewood.

He went on to score 23 goals for them that season.

[Villadroid]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

The fans were not deceived by MON they knew exactly what they were getting, which was not only explicitly demonstrated at ever club he managed but was pointed out by the sceptics from the beginning.

Claiming that his way of playing was a surprise is disingenuous.

No MON side could ever be described as subtle.

 

[ktvillan]

I don't think it was unreasonable to hope that with a bigger budget, which should have resulted in better quality players, that MON might have been able to play a less rustic style of football than he had at Leicester.  It soon became obvious that he was limited by coaching ability rather than resources.

[Villadroid]

Fans seem to base their case against MON on the fact that he paid too dear for some very ordinary players.

So does anyone think that Villa's unfashionable status and the fact that for Villa players the height of glamour on offer is a house on the Four Oaks estate, distorts the market.

The week after we bought Harewood Mark Hughes convinced Roque Santa Cruz to move from Bayern Munich to glamorous Blackburn Rovers, for less than we paid for Harewood.

He went on to score 23 goals for them that season.

Buying players is a gamble, sometimes managers get it right and sometimes they get it wrong (no manager excepted).

Santa Cruz scored only three goals for man United.

[Chico Hamilton III]

Santa Cruz scored only three goals for man United.

A brilliant record - 3 goals in zero games for Man United

[bertlambshank]

Fans seem to base their case against MON on the fact that he paid too dear for some very ordinary players.

So does anyone think that Villa's unfashionable status and the fact that for Villa players the height of glamour on offer is a house on the Four Oaks estate, distorts the market.

The week after we bought Harewood Mark Hughes convinced Roque Santa Cruz to move from Bayern Munich to glamorous Blackburn Rovers, for less than we paid for Harewood.

He went on to score 23 goals for them that season.

Buying players is a gamble, sometimes managers get it right and sometimes they get it wrong (no manager excepted).

Santa Cruz scored only three goals for man United.

Give it up its getting very boring.

[Villadroid]

Santa Cruz scored only three goals for man United.

A brilliant record - 3 goals in zero games for Man United

Whoops.

I meant City, obviously.

[Ad@m]

This thread's gone on for so long that one day we'll have a 'The legend of the legend of MON thread' thread!

[not3bad]

I have no fucking idea. if these two c***s were the only reason for the difference between Villa's 6th fucking place finishes and a top fucking four finish, I suppose it would be totally unfuckingforgivable.

But it is difficult to think of a pair of other fuckers who were fucking capable of reducing the ten point fucking gap which was the fucking difference.

I certainly can't think of any fuckers, can you?

That wasn't the point.

The point was that even if we couldn't attract the top calibre of players there was still absolutely no excuse for blowing whole chunks of transfer and wage budget on the likes of the above mentioned, one of which never played and the other should never have been anywhere near a Premiership squad.
 I may not be able to think of two players who could have bridged the gap between sixth and fourth but I can think of a hell of a lot that were better than Habib beye and Marlon 'Fucking' Harewood!

Mr Lerner should have taken the trouble to look at the archives and have taken note that if Ron Saunders only needed 14 players to win the league, then MON might do better with a smaller squad.

Implementing a two tier pay structure where the top earners could only number 14 or 15, backed up by a second tier on a much lower rate, might have been a good idea. But obviously there is no guarantee that Harewood would not have been in that 15.

After all Saunders had David Fucking Geddis, who was not exactly loved by the fans, I seem to recall.

So you admit with these comparisons that O'Neill was using methods from the 1980s?

The fans were not deceived by MON they knew exactly what they were getting, which was not only explicitly demonstrated at ever club he managed but was pointed out by the sceptics from the beginning.

Claiming that his way of playing was a surprise is disingenuous.

No MON side could ever be described as subtle.

 

So now it's the fault of the club for not knowing what they were taking on in Martin O'Neill.  Marvellous stuff.