The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[Dave Clark Five]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in
front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

Oh. What an incentive to find the quote. Yes, there are many quotes of him saying it was his decision only, with the point being laboured, but what I said was what I saw.

[TonyD]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

If Lerner was seemingly incapable of saying no to MON or questioning his wage bill for the best part of four years, I find it really hard to believe he'd have the balls to tell him to "throw" a competition.

I find it quite easy to believe MON would prefer people to think otherwise, mind.

True.    Nothing was going to get in the way of managing a team into the CL.    Very determined and blinkered.

Then he bought Heskey.    Enough said.

[pedro25]

I have mostly fond memories, 2-1 v Ajax, 5-1 v Blues, 6-4 v Blackburn, consecutive home league wins over Chelsea etc.  Moscow was a debacle as was 2-2 v Stoke when they scored two in the dying minutes.  Heskey was a bad buy, but Carew, Young, Milner, Downing were excellent.  The style of football was exciting to watch, but his insistence on playing centre halves at right back, ignoring the lower league/foreign transfer markets and not making subs early enough was frustrating.  Overall he could have done better but I would give him 8/10 for him time with us.  The way he left was disappointing and the board/owner have disappointed since in their actions/decisions.  I think Lambert has the potential to be a better manager for us but unless he is well funded it will count for very little, the odd league placing here or there I guess.

[Matt C]

Despite the fact it has probably been debated a million times still interesting reading this thread.

I'll never forget those first few years under his tenure when you had the feeling - genuinely - that we could win anywhere and were never out of a game. It was wonderful, frankly.

I'll also never forget the manner in which he left and in his wake, exposed the nature of model he left behind. The whole club - seemingly both on and off the pitch - was built with him at the epicentre, which was great in the short-term when things were going well. One of his talents undoubtably, was motivating and making very average players seem actually rather good. However, when you take him out of the equation, all is exposed and as so much at the club seemingly depended/centred around him, the wheels came off and it feels like only now we're starting the long road to recovery.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I must say, I'm quite surprised by that clip. Two things that stand out; the press are seeing through him and the fact they still think he's very popular at Sunderland. A quick read on their forums will tell you otherwise.

I was one of the earliest and biggest critics of MON, not because he wasn't doing a decent job but to where it was leading. I understand why some defended him, especially those that attended away games. Away from home, you don't care how you get the result. You spend a lot of money getting there, expensive ticket prices and a few drinks before, not to mention the poor weather conditions you may face. It's generally blind faith but under MON we generally got a result away from home.

At home was a different story. Despite getting in some great attendances over his rein, the football seemed to get worse not better. It's easy to say teams "park the bus" but that doesn't defend the cluelessness of his tactics. I say tactics in the phural but in reality it was a tactic, the same tactic he's now using at Sunderland - get the ball out to the wingers. Yes, he managed to beat the Rags time and time again but I'm Villa not a Nose and there's more to my season that playing them.

Top 6 finishes, though commendable and mainly built on our away form, were far more easier then than now. The problem was we were going no where. Our football never developed and as Paulie said earlier, if we had managed to qualify for the qualifying rounds of the Champions League, it would have been a very short stay and no doubt very embarrassing. Given the amount of money supplied by Randy, MON's acheivements were nothing any other half decent manager could have done but probably would have included a footballing side that had more than Plan A.

Maybe his problem was sticking to his loyal sidekicks Robertson and Walford, as we know, MON was never a tracksuit manager though ironically he liked to wear one on a Saturday. Football has moved on a long way and his methods are long outdated. You can't rely and build something purely on hard work (take note Paul Lambert). I did for a few weeks sense that MON wanted to change things, maybe go for a Plan B but it never materialised. He secretly knew his limits and he also knew the true value of the players Randy had asked him to get off the wage bill. He knew his bluff had been called and wasn't going to be caught out so jumped before he was shown up for shopaholic exploits.

Whether he stayed on until 5 days before the season kicked off was out of spite, I have no idea. Looking at it now, I get the impression it was. A more dignified man would have called it a day on the last day of the season but then I guess he would have put himself and his backroom staff on the dole. Afterall, where would he go, he'd missed out on the Liverpool job and he couldn't be seen to take a step down. He's far too good for that.

Overall, I see his time as another chapter in Villa's long history of missed opportunities. He may arguably have been the right man for us when Randy took over but for me he'd long outstayed his welcome. He was a short term fix, not somebody to build the club around.

[tomd2103]

Whether he stayed on until 5 days before the season kicked off was out of spite, I have no idea. Looking at it now, I get the impression it was. A more dignified man would have called it a day on the last day of the season but then I guess he would have put himself and his backroom staff on the dole. Afterall, where would he go, he'd missed out on the Liverpool job and he couldn't be seen to take a step down. He's far too good for that.

I know it's going over old ground, but I still firmly believe that was the case and that he deliberately timed his exit to cause as much disruption and unrest at the club as possible.  I thought the signs of discontent were there during the final few months of the 2009/10 season and can recall him making a comment like "you'd better ask Mark Hughes about that" when asked about his future at Villa Park.  Looking back, the issue probably should have been forced at the end of that season, but it would have been a big call by Lerner at that time.   

[not3bad]

He was a short term fix, not somebody to build the club around.

Perhaps this is the part that Sunderland fans should take note of the most.

[eastie]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in
front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

Oh. What an incentive to find the quote. Yes, there are many quotes of him saying it was his decision only, with the point being laboured, but what I said was what I saw.

Can't imagine mon letting Lerner tell him what team to pick , I'd expect him to stand his corner or quit if told to basically play a reserve team in a vital cup game.

I think it's mon who chose that team and the blame lies with him alone.

[kippaxvilla2]

£3.5m on Marlon Harewood.  That is all.

Carew for Baros.

What, that was a bad deal?  What did Baros ever do for Villa?  On the other hand, Carew, despite the fact that he blew hot and cold has been shown to be one of Villa's most successful recent aquisitions as far as strikers go.  I'd definitetely put Carew for Baros in the plus column for MON.

Agreed - I was countering the Harewood purchase with an excellent example on the flip side.

[Ian.]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in
front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

Oh. What an incentive to find the quote. Yes, there are many quotes of him saying it was his decision only, with the point being laboured, but what I said was what I saw.

Can't imagine mon letting Lerner tell him what team to pick , I'd expect him to stand his corner or quit if told to basically play a reserve team in a vital cup game.

I think it's mon who chose that team and the blame lies with him alone.

I always thought Randy was embarrassed by the performance and professionalism of it and it was him who tried to soften the blow by refunding anyone who traveled there?

[damon loves JT]

And yet if we'd pulled off a stunning win in Moscow, I know who would have received all the credit.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

And yet if we'd pulled off a stunning win in Moscow, I know who would have received all the credit.

In MON's defence, the Reserve team were far more suited to playing European football than his first team.

[KevinGage]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in
front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

Oh. What an incentive to find the quote. Yes, there are many quotes of him saying it was his decision only, with the point being laboured, but what I said was what I saw.

It could equally mean that they 'made a decision' when they didn't give him £20+ million or whatever else he wanted in January 2009. He might have argued that he wasn't backed then (despite spending £40 million+ the previous year) and so he was forced into fielding a weakened team.

See, prioritising would the league over the UEFA Cup would have been fine.  I think the majority of us wanted to have a full tilt at top 4 that year, with the importance that would bring in our development.   Rotation would have been fine, too.  Resting a couple of our more important players, if they were carrying knocks and generally feeling the strain of a tough season. But dropping so many was the issue.    Giving rookies like Albrighton and Bannan  (promising as they were) debuts in Moscow left little doubt that he actually didn't mind us being knocked out of that competition. 

Clubs like Ajax  (who we beat that year)  Marseille and Atletico Madrid were quite happy to take that competition seriously.  So when did we become big enough to treat it like the League Cup?

[peter w]

Remember his exact words about Moscow: 'They made a decision'. It was only said once.

What did he mean/do you interpret that to mean?

It meant that the decision to throw the Moscow game, or not send a full strength team, was not entirely his own. The previous sentence referred to the owners or the board. Without a copy of it in
front of me I can't say which it was, but the words that I have quoted were definitely said on one occasion.

Which I don't believe for one second.

Oh. What an incentive to find the quote. Yes, there are many quotes of him saying it was his decision only, with the point being laboured, but what I said was what I saw.

I'm not saying he didn't say it DC5 just that I don't believe for a second that the decision was anything other than O'Neill's. He's traded on his reputation as being in complete control of the club that he is managing - around the playing side - and there is no way he would listen to the board, or whoever, and just through away our Europa Cup Quarter-final the way he did. Again, he's looking to point finger's elsewhere. Nevermind Pubehead he should be called The Teflon Kid for the way nothing ever was his fault.

[not3bad]

£3.5m on Marlon Harewood.  That is all.

Carew for Baros.

What, that was a bad deal?  What did Baros ever do for Villa?  On the other hand, Carew, despite the fact that he blew hot and cold has been shown to be one of Villa's most successful recent aquisitions as far as strikers go.  I'd definitetely put Carew for Baros in the plus column for MON.

Agreed - I was countering the Harewood purchase with an excellent example on the flip side.

Oh OK.  I seem to be grabbing the wrong end of the stick a lot lately.  *scratches head*