The Martin O'Neill thread (with added sacking #2188)

[Mister E]

I like Martin O'Neill. I enjoyed his time here, I liked seeing players like Young, Carew, Gabby, Milner and the like, I enjoyed the way the team gave their all and you felt we were always in with a chance, I loved the quick attacking football and mean defense, I enjoyed his nervy eccentric manner, I admire his success at Leicester and Celtic and how he put football second when his wife was ill, I like the way he made us feel we we're on the up and could take anyone on, I love the fact he always won derbies and won at places like Old Trafford and Arsenal.

I don't think he was the messiah or without faults and was frustrated by his lack of rotation and his failure to look for players abroad. My attitude towards him were similar to the vast majority of those on this board, but now it seems fashionable to call him pube head and think that everything he did was crap.

I know what you mean.
Where I parted company with his approach was the intransigence re selection and playing style and the very questionable signings, at the expense of the young, untried / untested players that were listed a few pages above.
The more I hear about him, the less I like him and now feel that his seemingly 'pure' motives were in fact incredibly ego-centric. I appreciate that this may read as naive on my part but I did regard him and RL as potential saviours of our club after a pretty negative few years.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

As for "toe curlingly embarrasing interviews",  I remember MON's analysis during international tournaments which were memorable not only for their insight but their humour, which was remarked upon in this forum both before and after MON became Villa manager, so I think you're way off there, to be frank.

Not quite.
As I recall, he was ridiculed on here for his waffling on World Cup Match of the day, long before he joined us.

[QBVILLA]

How can there be an argument that 6th place was an under achievement when the O'Neill detractors say that he left us with a mediocre squad?

Because of the money paid in developing the mediocre squad. Are you trying to tell me that we couldn't have got a much better striker for the combined value of Heskey's wages and transfer fee, for example?

I'm not trying to tell you anything. I'm not here saying O'Neill was brilliant and I certainly won't argue that Heskey was a crap signing. However, I can't see how it can be argued that a squad which finished sixth with 64 points (I think), reached a league cup final and a F.A Cup semi were therefore 'mediocre'. Could there have been better players for the same money? Yes, but that isn't the point that was made. I was pissed off when he walked out five days before the season but i'm not going to change my view that under his management following the Villa was in the main enjoyable. Under O'Leary,Houllier and McLeish this wasn't the case. The season we scored over 70 league goals will certainly live long in the memory as will the victories at the Emirates,Anfield and Old Trafford, not to mention the victories against the Blues. So like i said, for me there were more positives than negatives under O'Neill.

[not3bad]

As for "toe curlingly embarrasing interviews",  I remember MON's analysis during international tournaments which were memorable not only for their insight but their humour, which was remarked upon in this forum both before and after MON became Villa manager, so I think you're way off there, to be frank.

Not quite.
As I recall, he was ridiculed on here for his waffling on World Cup Match of the day, long before he joined us.

I remember far more comments saying the exact opposite.  Especially comments by MON that took the piss out of the other pundits, which were repeated with glee.

Never saw one person saying a negative word. 

[Fred]

He left Leicester and they went down.

I would think more of him if he had left after the last game of the season rather than 5 days before the season started and for that i do not like him.
Compare that to Sir Graham who left after the game at Leeds to give the club time to get a new manager in.

MON did waste a lot of money on very average players apart from Young/Milner and Downing.

I would not be suprised if he is reading this and making notes.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

As for "toe curlingly embarrasing interviews",  I remember MON's analysis during international tournaments which were memorable not only for their insight but their humour, which was remarked upon in this forum both before and after MON became Villa manager, so I think you're way off there, to be frank.

Not quite.
As I recall, he was ridiculed on here for his waffling on World Cup Match of the day, long before he joined us.

I remember far more comments saying the exact opposite.  Especially comments by MON that took the piss out of the other pundits, which were repeated with glee.

Never saw one person saying a negative word. 

Odd. You're not getting mixed up with Harewood and Heskey are you?
When many did a u-turn and said how good they were when they joined us?

[not3bad]

As for "toe curlingly embarrasing interviews",  I remember MON's analysis during international tournaments which were memorable not only for their insight but their humour, which was remarked upon in this forum both before and after MON became Villa manager, so I think you're way off there, to be frank.

Not quite.
As I recall, he was ridiculed on here for his waffling on World Cup Match of the day, long before he joined us.

I remember far more comments saying the exact opposite.  Especially comments by MON that took the piss out of the other pundits, which were repeated with glee.

Never saw one person saying a negative word. 

Odd. You're not getting mixed up with Harewood and Heskey are you?
When many did a u-turn and said how good they were when they joined us?

I could say the same to you.

[damon loves JT]

I would remember him much more fondly if he had quit at the end of the season and admitted he couldn't go any further.

The way he left not only left us in the shit but implied that it was all everybody else's fault.

When I think of the loyalty that many of us showed to him, it's hard to remember him with anything but bitterness.

[Mister E]

I would remember him much more fondly if he had quit at the end of the season and admitted he couldn't go any further.

The way he left not only left us in the shit but implied that it was all everybody else's fault.

When I think of the loyalty that many of us showed to him, it's hard to remember him with anything but bitterness.

Hear, hear.

[Brend'Watkins]

I would remember him much more fondly if he had quit at the end of the season and admitted he couldn't go any further.

The way he left not only left us in the shit but implied that it was all everybody else's fault.

When I think of the loyalty that many of us showed to him, it's hard to remember him with anything but bitterness.

True.

I also think he would have been given far less reciprocated bitterness had he left at the end of the season.  He knew the score then and what his job for the coming season was.  If he didn't want to or wasn't capable of doing it (more than likely) he should have let it be known then to allow the club some time to get someone in who possibly could.  The nature of his departure is what riles me most and he gets a financial settlement out of it to put cream and cherry on the top.

I have a feeling he has regrets now about they way he handled it.

[DB]

I would remember him much more fondly if he had quit at the end of the season and admitted he couldn't go any further.

The way he left not only left us in the shit but implied that it was all everybody else's fault.

When I think of the loyalty that many of us showed to him, it's hard to remember him with anything but bitterness.

True.

I also think he would have been given far less reciprocated bitterness had he left at the end of the season.  He knew the score then and what his job for the coming season was.  If he didn't want to or wasn't capable of doing it (more than likely) he should have let it be known then to allow the club some time to get someone in who possibly could.  The nature of his departure is what riles me most and he gets a financial settlement out of it to put cream and cherry on the top.

I have a feeling he has regrets now about they way he handled it.

Agreed. I too was a fan while he was here, but his fnal year it was clear he had taken us as far as he could at huge cost - but knowing what I know now and the way he walked out on us, I've lost all respect for the man.

[WarszaVillan]

I would remember him much more fondly if he had quit at the end of the season and admitted he couldn't go any further.

The way he left not only left us in the shit but implied that it was all everybody else's fault.

When I think of the loyalty that many of us showed to him, it's hard to remember him with anything but bitterness.

Hear, hear.

Yeah yeah, and I hate Ron Saunders for leaving us in the middle of our only season with a chance to win the European Cup and joining Blues and for that bloody Brian Little who had a medical at Small Heath.

He should not have gone like he did and he's even said sorry (no mean feat for a megalomaniac). Ok I can see how it is going to mean we would have a difficult season but if the board knew what they were doing and were serious about investing in the team they could quickly have settled the ship again and got us moving.

[paul_e]

My biggest problem with MoN is that he spent a fortune on squad players only to leave them on the bench.

It was weird, if you take all the money he spent adding options to the squad (both fees and wages) spent half on promising youngsters from across europe and the other half on 1-2 top class players we'd have seen little reduction in performance at the time and we'd have had a long-term plan, filling the squad with guys in their late 20s and early 30s on big contracts and barely playing them was crazy and proved to be his downfall.

[onje_villa]

In retrospect, I think the thing about MON was that the things he was good at managerially (playing on the counter, motivation, team organisation) made up for the failings he had that others have pointed out on this thread already.  So, when he left the faults remained, but his ability to compensate for them did not.

His focus always seemed to be to win the next game, so long term planning his successors could benefit from did not exist.

I still think he was a good manager and did some good things for our club, but it was all short term and unsustainable!

Spot on the money for me.

[Dave Clark Five]

Sadly, any of those five - Ridgewell, Cahill, Gardner, Davis and Whitts, would probably improve us right now.

I would definitely go for Whittingham and Gardner would add a lot, but now has baggage.