Other Games - 2010/11 Season

[lovejoy]

If Mourinho wants to start looking into videos of cheating, exaggerated simulation and feigning injury I suggests he watches porto in the uefa cup final managed by ...Mourinho. Hypocritical tw@t.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

If Mourinho wants to start looking into videos of cheating, exaggerated simulation and feigning injury I suggests he watches porto in the uefa cup final managed by ...Mourinho. Hypocritical tw@t.

I mentioned this game somewhere on here too, the most disgraceful display by a team I've ever seen.

[adrenachrome]

If Mourinho wants to start looking into videos of cheating, exaggerated simulation and feigning injury I suggests he watches porto in the uefa cup final managed by ...Mourinho. Hypocritical tw@t.

I mentioned this game somewhere on here too, the most disgraceful display by a team I've ever seen.

Tim Vickery, Radio 5's South American football bod, used to argue that Brazilian and Portuguese coaches had developed fouling and cheating almost to a science. He said they see it as part of the game, and do not like to see fouls "wasted". Mourinho  is nothing if not meticulous in his preparations.
 

[Monty]

Again, I agree, the Barca playacting was embarrassing, but it was certainly Real who set the spiralling in motion with their increasingly dirty and physical approach. It is to Barca's shame that they reacted, like a child whining "but he started it", but I suppose when you see tactics and challenges (often unpunished, Jose) like Real have employed this season which vary from game-stopping to potentially leg-breaking you can see where they're coming from. It's that old line that it was understandable but unjustifiable.

I think you forget that football is supposed to be sporting contest. Fouls are part and parcel of the game, the rules are there to deal with it. Cheating en masse as Barcelona did is totally unacceptable in any sport. They are a fucking disgrace and should have the book trown at them.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. Why is one form of cheating deemed 'part and parcel of the game' by you (namely, deliberate fouling ranging from the niggly and annoying to the downright dangerous), called part of a sporting contest despite the screamingly obvious fact that they're called fouls because they are outside of the rules, and another form of cheating is 'a fucking disgrace' and that the perpertrators 'should have the book trown (sic) at them'? Why is it ok for one side to kick but not for the other to play act? Both were at fault equally for the disgrace of that game (though there are two points - one, that whereas a few Barca players didn't play act, every single Madrid player deliberately fouled; and two, the deliberate fouling preceded the play acting by three games). Your notion there is the worst of British, is the reason why Ramsey, Eduardo and so on not only get their legs broken but see all the sympathy go to the leg-breaker ('he's not that sort of player' - what, to put someone else's career on the line through his own stupidity and recklessness?). In the rest of the world, the two sides are seen as equally bad, with Real the initial instigators way back in ancient history. Only the British seem, in the battle of kickers and actors, to side with the kickers.

[The Situation]

Will be interesting to see how far Porto go next season in the Champions League.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

If Mourinho wants to start looking into videos of cheating, exaggerated simulation and feigning injury I suggests he watches porto in the uefa cup final managed by ...Mourinho. Hypocritical tw@t.

I mentioned this game somewhere on here too, the most disgraceful display by a team I've ever seen.

Tim Vickery, Radio 5's South American football bod, used to argue that Brazilian and Portuguese coaches had developed fouling and cheating almost to a science. He said they see it as part of the game, and do not like to see fouls "wasted". Mourinho  is nothing if not meticulous in his preparations.
 

No idea about South America but here it only really stands out in the big games, which for your amusement I'm hoping for a Benfica-Porto final in the Europa Cup. They'll kick, punch and cheat each other to death where you'll probly be lucky to end up with 8 a side.

One little gem I meant to post on here but couldn't find a decent youtube link, was the recent Benfica-Porto game in Lisbon, where Porto won 2-0 to clinch the league title. At full time as the photographers ran on the pitch, the Porto players to their traveling fans, then as tradition is here, took their coach to the centre circle to give him the bumps. At that point, somebody decided to turn all the lights off in the stadium, turn on the sprinklers and play through the stadium PA the Lisbon anthem 'Viva Lisboa'.

Bitter? Sour grapes? You've seen nothing like it. Dublin should be fun.

[Dave Cooper please]

Again, I agree, the Barca playacting was embarrassing, but it was certainly Real who set the spiralling in motion with their increasingly dirty and physical approach. It is to Barca's shame that they reacted, like a child whining "but he started it", but I suppose when you see tactics and challenges (often unpunished, Jose) like Real have employed this season which vary from game-stopping to potentially leg-breaking you can see where they're coming from. It's that old line that it was understandable but unjustifiable.

I think you forget that football is supposed to be sporting contest. Fouls are part and parcel of the game, the rules are there to deal with it. Cheating en masse as Barcelona did is totally unacceptable in any sport. They are a fucking disgrace and should have the book trown at them.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. Why is one form of cheating deemed 'part and parcel of the game' by you (namely, deliberate fouling ranging from the niggly and annoying to the downright dangerous), called part of a sporting contest despite the screamingly obvious fact that they're called fouls because they are outside of the rules, and another form of cheating is 'a fucking disgrace' and that the perpertrators 'should have the book trown (sic) at them'? Why is it ok for one side to kick but not for the other to play act? Both were at fault equally for the disgrace of that game (though there are two points - one, that whereas a few Barca players didn't play act, every single Madrid player deliberately fouled; and two, the deliberate fouling preceded the play acting by three games). Your notion there is the worst of British, is the reason why Ramsey, Eduardo and so on not only get their legs broken but see all the sympathy go to the leg-breaker ('he's not that sort of player' - what, to put someone else's career on the line through his own stupidity and recklessness?). In the rest of the world, the two sides are seen as equally bad, with Real the initial instigators way back in ancient history. Only the British seem, in the battle of kickers and actors, to side with the kickers.

Because a foul is a foul, it can be seen by all including the referee who will give the free kick or penalty and punish the offender accordingly, there is no pretence involved even if the perpetrator tried to get the ball and got the man instead. If it's a "leg-breaker" the player gets sent off and serves his ban.
Play acting, diving and being a cheating, snide twat is totally different, it's going against the very core of the sportsmanship that should underpin the game. Going down clutching your face when you absolutely know you haven't been touched is the act of a cheating ******, diving when you absolutely know you weren't fouled is cheating.
I would accept harsher punishments for dirty, fouling players who try to stifle creativity but I cannot condone blatant cheating.

[Monty]

I'm not condoning it, I just don't see this difference between systematic and deliberate fouling and embarrassing acts of face-clutching. How is it not going against the 'very core of the sportsmanship that should underpin the game' to deliberately and niggly kick a player who's better than you because you don't want to risk defending properly?

There are two types of fouls: the honest and the deliberate. The honest is often the more dangerous type because it runs on passion and madness, and can often lead to bad situations. The deliberate is more equated with theatrics in that it is simply a way of trying to get at the other team with something other than fair means. I find it insane to somehow say that kicking the opposition out of the game is less bad than trying to get that kicking more harshly punished (and, by the way, fewer players would play act if referees took more notice of this kind of systematic fouling, as there would be no need to draw attention to it).

As Mark says, it comes up most in the big games. I've watched Barcelona a hell of a lot these last few years, and there is no doubt that they tune the acting level up a huge amount specifically for Mourinho, because it's Mourinho who most employs these kicking strategies. Real as well, sure, but Mourinho especially. It's not condonable at all, but it's no worse than the kicking they come up against.

[Dave Cooper please]

Do you really reckon that players and teams that dive and exaggerate do it more when they are up against physical teams? Or do they do it just to gain an unfair advantage?
If you get fouled and the ref sees it, you get a free-kick.
If you are not fouled but dive and roll around a bit, you get a free-kick.
Which of those is part of the game and which is cheating?

[Monty]

The opposition continually foul and niggle you to disrupt your game and deny you space unfairly. Is that cheating? Of course it is. In neither of your scenarios did you allow for that. Of course it's part of the game to get fouled, but it's not part of the game to foul deliberately. That is why it is a 'foul' - because it's not part of the game. It is not within the rules. It is not permitted. To do that deliberately is cheating as surely as exaggeration and diving is.

The level of acting is tuned up for these big games against Mourinho's over-physicality just as Mourinho's negativity and strategic fouling is tuned up against Barca's quality. All teams have players of all nationalities who act and dive and all the rest of it, but only one has to play THAT game against THAT manager.

[Dave Cooper please]

But generally, unless a ref is really on his game, diving and exaggerating is not punished, in fact it is rewarded with free-kicks and penalties, so which is worse? Fouling that can see you concede free-kicks, penalties and possibly see you lose players, or cheating which is often rewarded?

[Monty]

But generally, unless a ref is really on his game, diving and exaggerating is not punished, in fact it is rewarded with free-kicks and penalties, so which is worse? Fouling that can see you concede free-kicks, penalties and possibly see you lose players, or cheating which is often rewarded?

Look at the Copa del Rey and Inter's victory last year to see how the strategic fouling brand of cheating can be rewarded. Don't forget the over-physicality can also involve things not seen by the referees because they're done when the officials aren't looking - Ramos forearm attack on Messi was probably the worst from the other night (gone almost totally unreported, incidentally, which is perplexing).

[Villa'Zawg]

Football is and always has been a physical contact sport. The laws of the game have been designed in such a way as to recognise the difference between fair and foul physical contact and to offer appropriate sanctions for foul play.

You won’t find any such appropriate sanctions for the type of behaviour Barcelona indulged in because the laws of the game were not designed to accommodate cheats.

When clubs set out to subvert the laws of game by cheating en masse like Barcelona did, the referee is powerless. The sending off was the single most important event in changing the course of that game and it happen because Barcelona are cheats.

The fact that it is a club of Barcelona’s stature makes the offence more grievous, not less.

I hope Man Utd stuff them.

[Monty]

'Barcelona are cheats'. Nice damning the whole by the part there. 'The laws of the game were not designed to accommodate cheats'. Again - THAT'S WHY PHYSICAL FOULS ARE GIVEN AS FOULS. There are appropriate sanctions for Alves etc's actions, because there are things like yellow cards for diving.

En masse, eh. If to justify this 'en masse' claim you can name any incident from a Barca player OTHER than Pedro, Alves or Busquets which was in any way exceptional I will congratulate your vigilance.

You hope United stuff them. A United team which contains as notorious an actor as Nani, in Rooney a player who has so often dived to gain favour, a manager whose attitude to referees is, oh, fucking definitely within your 'spirit of the game' moral crusade, whose players surround referees as badly and as persistently as anything we've seen from el Clasico. Nice consistent line there. The hypocrisy is unbelievable on this issue.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

17.15 today is the kick off time for the final conference games.

18 Barrow            45 -17 47
19 Forest Green  45 -18 46
20 Southport       45 -19 46
---------------------------------
21 Tamworth       45 -22 46
22 Altrincham       45 -39 44
23 Eastbourne B  45 -43 36
24 Histon             45 -49 27

Its dog eat dog Tamworth at home to Forest Green.
Win they stay up, draw and they pray Southport lose at Kettering.