How good are they really

[ktvillan]

Assists - 2008/09

Rooney - 7
Gabby 8

Assists - 2009/10

Rooney - 5
Gabby - 5

Seeing as Premier League stats are the only stats that matter, "relatively" he does alright.

I personally don't give a shit how much other teams think he's worth, at this moment in time I'd say he's pretty priceless for us.

So now you're comparing him to Rooney based on one stat. Okay.  But how many goals did Rooney score last season? I don't think you'll get too many agreeing Gabby compares to Rooney.

[Concrete John]

Assists - 2008/09

Rooney - 7
Gabby 8

Assists - 2009/10

Rooney - 5
Gabby - 5

Seeing as Premier League stats are the only stats that matter, "relatively" he does alright.

I personally don't give a shit how much other teams think he's worth, at this moment in time I'd say he's pretty priceless for us.

So now you're comparing him to Rooney based on one stat. Okay.  But how many goals did Rooney score last season? I don't think you'll get too many agreeing Gabby compares to Rooney.

Rooney may score more goals, but for a player who is supposedly the best of his generation, Gabby can hardly he doing 'relatively little else' when he's matching his assist stats.

[Olneythelonely]

Assists - 2008/09

Rooney - 7
Gabby 8

Assists - 2009/10

Rooney - 5
Gabby - 5

Seeing as Premier League stats are the only stats that matter, "relatively" he does alright.

I personally don't give a shit how much other teams think he's worth, at this moment in time I'd say he's pretty priceless for us.

So now you're comparing him to Rooney based on one stat. Okay.  But how many goals did Rooney score last season? I don't think you'll get too many agreeing Gabby compares to Rooney.

You were the one that wanted to talk "relatively".

Let me know the rules of this game and I'll play it with you.

My opinion is that Gabby offers the team a huge amount, you said compared to others he doesn't. I bring up his assists compared to one of the best strikers in the league and you're still not happy.

So apart from scoring more as each season passes and having a better assist rate than one of the best forwards in the league, I agree, he doesn't have much to offer.

[Mister E]

Perhaps if MON got him taking penalties, his overall coolness in front of goal would improve ...
Gabby still frightens the living shite out of defenders for his renowned pace, whcih would be great if others in the team were better goalscorers. The challenge is not getting rid of Gabby, it's finding players who can exploit the space that he and others create.
Try playing Forlan or Ozil or David Villa behind or alongside him and the pairing would be scoring for fun.

Talk of selling him would be madness, given that there is no obvious replacement out there.

[sfx412]

With the best part of 10 years between them in age, comparing the value of Drogba and Gabby is quite misleading.  And Milner's value is not dropping, just the press picked a smaller number out of the air this morning when filling column inches!

It is? Why? Drogba is about the best there is and is allegedly being sought for 20 mill, Gabby is not yet and is some suggest worth more than 18. So why is the comparison misleading.

As the press is the sole source of info on prices, seemingly if as you say they are plucking prices out of the air, and they are goiong down, my statement is, even by your reckoning correct, is it not ?

[TheSandman]

Perhaps if MON got him taking penalties, his overall coolness in front of goal would improve ...
Gabby still frightens the living shite out of defenders for his renowned pace, whcih would be great if others in the team were better goalscorers. The challenge is not getting rid of Gabby, it's finding players who can exploit the space that he and others create.
Try playing Forlan or Ozil or David Villa behind or alongside him and the pairing would be scoring for fun.

Talk of selling him would be madness, given that there is no obvious replacement out there.

I agree with all of that.

We get what? 6? 7? penalties each season. If Gabby took them and scored most he'd be a 20 goal a season striker.

Defoe, Bent, Keane, Rooney and so many others take penalties for their club sides which inflates their goal tallies.

It is not complex to take a penalty. You just be confident and take it. You can tell how many penalties that miss are bad. So surely if Gabby was to take them he'd if properly practised and coached would put many away as he's a self confident fellow.

I think the coolness in front of goal thing is an excellent point too.

[Concrete John]

With the best part of 10 years between them in age, comparing the value of Drogba and Gabby is quite misleading.  And Milner's value is not dropping, just the press picked a smaller number out of the air this morning when filling column inches!

It is? Why? Drogba is about the best there is and is allegedly being sought for 20 mill, Gabby is not yet and is some suggest worth more than 18. So why is the comparison misleading.

As the press is the sole source of info on prices, seemingly if as you say they are plucking prices out of the air, and they are goiong down, my statement is, even by your reckoning correct, is it not ?

Here's what you actually said that I replied to:-

Thing is there are very few pundits and managers out there who agree with you and those others who have a derogatory opinion of the bloke.
I still think with Drogba seemingly valued at 24 mill that Gabby would sell for under 20 .

Even Milners price is now dropping I see in the media.

When comparing prices for players the age/resale value is a factor.  The fact that Drogba is pretty close to Gabby now in this hypothetical pricing is as he would have longer to play for a prospective buyer and a resale value attached to him, which Drogba does not.  IMO, Drogba is twice the player Gabby is, but it terms of 'worth' the age thing balances them out.  Look for the example of Robbie Keane and Cartlon Cole if both move this summer, with Keane being a vastly superior player, again IMO.

I can see a clear differential between Milner's price and what the papers are speculating he will be sold for.  If you can't, then I can't hep you.

[Dave]

When comparing prices for players the age/resale value is a factor.  The fact that Drogba is pretty close to Gabby now in this hypothetical pricing is as he would have longer to play for a prospective buyer and a resale value attached to him, which Drogba does not.  IMO, Drogba is twice the player Gabby is, but it terms of 'worth' the age thing balances them out.  Look for the example of Robbie Keane and Cartlon Cole if both move this summer, with Keane being a vastly superior player, again IMO.

See also Torres and Villa. Torres, an inferior but younger player will probably sell for 150% of the price Barcelona paid for Villa.

[MoetVillan]

Values and stats.  Form does have a lot to do with players prices but it gets skewed by how much a team is willing to pay, and what positions they most want to fill.  Stats.  Rooney last season was some player, even I had to admit that.  Yet 5 games later on the worlds stage and im scratching my head as to what the fucking hell happend to the sausage roll lover, and why was he replaced with a clueless oik, that made Hesky look like the star player.  Fuck me, I think Gabby would have had much more impact on the team/squad and games than that overrated lump

[ktvillan]

So apart from scoring more as each season passes and having a better assist rate than one of the best forwards in the league I agree, he doesn't have much to offer

He may well match Rooney for assists - assuming your stats are correct -  but does he match up to Rooney in other areas such as link up play,  hold up play, ball retention, closing down the opposition, accuracy of passing, creating chances for others?. That kind of stuff is more subjective and I doubt many people would have Gabby in the same ball park as Rooney.  

My point was made in relation to whether he justifies a 20m price tag.Fair enough if you might think his goal record and his assists (God I hate that Americanised stat) are sufficient to justify it, I don't. Not yet anyway.

[supertom]

How many freekicks does Gabby win? How many times does he chase down a nothing ball, and win us attacking possession?

He also gets his share of assists, his share of goals, and he's a player who causes problems for the opposition.

He's rough around the edges still, but he's a quality player.

As long as we keep Ash and Gab, we've the quality in our side to threaten anybody. Obviously, we'll need a few improvements in the 11, and the bench to make their job easier, and be a more consistent side, but lets see how Martin handles this window.

But as much as Gabby can be immensely frustrating. We'd be a lot worse off without him.

[Concrete John]

OK, we can say Gabby is not as good as Rooney, but if we had Rooney would we be comparing him unfavourably to Messi?

We can only judge by what he does for us, which to date has been a lot, despite having some less than impressive spells.  He may not be a £20m striker, but anyone we bought clearly better than him would have to be!!

[Monty]

OK, we can say Gabby is not as good as Rooney, but if we had Rooney would we be comparing him unfavourably to Messi?

We can only judge by what he does for us, which to date has been a lot, despite having some less than impressive spells.  He may not be a £20m striker, but anyone we bought clearly better than him would have to be!!

I think that's the point. People say he doesn't score enough goals, or he doesn't create from deep, or whatever, but if he did one of those better in addition to what he already does he'd be one of the best forwards in the world. His all-round game is perfect for us, and without him we'd be in a bit of a hole as to how to build our side.

[supertom]

Though he isn't worth 20 mill. We could easily get that for him, if we chose to sell. But the market is crazy right now. We'd certainly have to spend as much to improve upon him. But the though we might find an all round better player, said player might not suit Aston Villa as well, as Gabby currently does.

Sell him, and we may as well shut up shop. But I don't think we will anyway.

Milner is the easier to replace out of himself, Ash and Gab.

[Concrete John]

Milner is the easier to replace out of himself, Ash and Gab.

Weirdly I agree, despite thinking Milner is the best player out of the three!