Clubs in trouble

[Bad English]

Isaiah 40:31: But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

[Warren Aspinall]

I am pretty sure that one day in the near future, our game (the EPL that is) will be exposed as greedy & corrupt, Platini & co will then have field day. Unless the FA/Premier league grow some balls & sort it out. I doubt this will happen though as they're probably just as bent as most of the clubs.

[Acton Villa]

I am pretty sure that one day in the near future, our game (the EPL that is) will be exposed as greedy & corrupt, Platini & co will then have field day. Unless the FA/Premier league grow some balls & sort it out. I doubt this will happen though as they're probably just as bent as most of the clubs.

That's the thing about Platini, he's dead right about English football. I can never understand why we, as fans, swallow the Murdoch press-fuelled 'he's a slimy French communist' nonsense - he's on our side.

[Warren Aspinall]

I am pretty sure that one day in the near future, our game (the EPL that is) will be exposed as greedy & corrupt, Platini & co will then have field day. Unless the FA/Premier league grow some balls & sort it out. I doubt this will happen though as they're probably just as bent as most of the clubs.

That's the thing about Platini, he's dead right about English football. I can never understand why we, as fans, swallow the Murdoch press-fuelled 'he's a slimy French communist' nonsense - he's on our side.

But I want to hate him, I don't know why, I just do. That's why I want us to sort our own game out, i'd probably hate it just as much to hear comment after comment from him gloating about our game. I hate him having the same opinion as me, how dare he.

[Acton Villa]

I am pretty sure that one day in the near future, our game (the EPL that is) will be exposed as greedy & corrupt, Platini & co will then have field day. Unless the FA/Premier league grow some balls & sort it out. I doubt this will happen though as they're probably just as bent as most of the clubs.

That's the thing about Platini, he's dead right about English football. I can never understand why we, as fans, swallow the Murdoch press-fuelled 'he's a slimy French communist' nonsense - he's on our side.

But I want to hate him, I don't know why, I just do. That's why I want us to sort our own game out, i'd probably hate it just as much to hear comment after comment from him gloating about our game. I hate him having the same opinion as me, how dare he.

I'm like that about that ****** Bono. It's not easy spending all day hoping that Malawi never sorts itself out.

[JUAN PABLO]

I see Notts Co. have a PAYE bill to pay.. I thought they were the new Chelsea   ;-))

[Concrete John]

I am pretty sure that one day in the near future, our game (the EPL that is) will be exposed as greedy & corrupt, Platini & co will then have field day. Unless the FA/Premier league grow some balls & sort it out. I doubt this will happen though as they're probably just as bent as most of the clubs.

That's the thing about Platini, he's dead right about English football. I can never understand why we, as fans, swallow the Murdoch press-fuelled 'he's a slimy French communist' nonsense - he's on our side.

The thing with Platini is he doesn't actually care about English football or the English football fan, he just hates us and wants us to stop being so dominant in the CL.  For instance, when has be spoken out about Real Madrid's ridiculous spending or them being financed by the Spanish government??

[Concrete John]

I wonder if when signing a player, does the club say:-

"OK, £10m plus £40k a week over a 4 year contract, means an outlay of £18.32m.  Lets budget for a selling the player after 3 years and getting £5m back, so a net spend of £11.24m, or £3.75m a year.  Will our income through TV rights, gate receipts and prize money increase by that amount and therefore make it a commercially viable deal?"

I very much doubt they do!!

that looks exactly like Dougonomics to me.

Shit, I hope not!!

I was just posing it as an example of does a club decide whether a player's fee and/or wages will result in extra revenue to justify them?  If they do then great, but if not then it's basically a blackhole where money disappears, which is when clubs start getting in trouble, unless they have a rich owner who keeps throwing money at them!

[peter w]

I should have posted here then the Genera's thread but it was put there to try and see if/why clubs refuse to take an active role in this.

The hardship fund concept should be explored more though.

[pdiddybaby]

I should have posted here then the Genera's thread but it was put there to try and see if/why clubs refuse to take an active role in this.

The hardship fund concept should be explored more though.

in the very early days, of course Villa helped out local rivals to keep afloat in the same way. But it is different now in that a reason a lot of clubs got themselves into trouble is that they poor management choices and over reached themselves.

Other clubs say like Accrington have to go part time on the attendances they get (around 1800) it is not feasible to run a full time operation.

maybe there should be an hardship fund but how would you judge the exact critrea of each team, should say a Pompey get help when their business plan was nuts ?

[CBAV06]

I would think before any sort of revenue sharing could be implemented a salary cap would need to be in place.

[pdiddybaby]

to make football more equitable these steps should be implemented but would never be

1) go back to sharing home revenue for games at 25% for the away team - no away team, no game

2) Implement a system where a Man City or Chelsea situation of obscene spending can not happen again

3) Monitor clubs debts, where they get above a certain threshold, dock points, implement transfer bans

4) PL to join back with the FL and share TV revenue

[peter w]

As I tried to explain in the earlier posts clubs that overspend/overstretch themselves need to go through the natural mechanism that will strip them back to the bare bones so thet they can pay off the crippling debts to allow them to survive. Such as Leeds, Bradford, Forest, Oldham etc

This usually means the best players go, but so do their salaries. It means relegation but ultimately survival and a chance to continue. It also means they find their level again and start from there.

The Premier league has created a huge cash cow that many clubs strive to attain. Its not just their fault though because fans will berate a 'sensibly' run club that want to keep its house in order and not jeopardise the clubs future.

We all want Randy to pump more money into Villa to get to the 'promised' land of the top 4. We are guilty of wanting more and don't think of potential consequences.

but football today needs to have businessmen, or proper accountants, to run the money side of the operation. Its no point a manager and fans putting pressure on the board/chairman to supply funds and then simply cross fingers that it will come off.

But that's a different scenario to kings Lynn who no longer have a club because of an unapid tax-bill( I think). Stockport who have a council taht have no intrest in helping the club and who have virtually given away their ground to the tenants who are acting as bullying squatters.

These clubs could apply to those sitting on the board of the Hardship Fund Committee to see if they fulfill the criteria for getting money.

Now, it doesn't need to be the full amount paid off but enough to keep the wolf from the door and then have a business plan drawn up as to how they will look to stay afloat, and how they can live within their means in order to stay afloat. If it means relegation, and dropping out of the leage then so be it.

Any fans of these clubs would prefer that not to happen. But would be a damned sight happier to be relegated than to have no club at all.

The fund's committee will be there to help these clubs and help them with their business plans. However, if the club has already gone into administartion then that should be taken care of. They will pay the money directly to the body who is owed the moeny - usually the tax office.

It shouldn't be used to pay wages of playing staff. If its needed to pay rank and file employees then that maybe considered but probably not wise to go down that route.

The club still has to look at all other options first before the hardship grant is paid. I.E. selling of assets (not the ground), going into administration, having a clearly read line of ownership (unlike Leeds), opening the books to the hardship Fund Committee, going part-time, kicking-off at 2pm on a Sat afternoon, or earlier, to avoid higher electricity charges.

If they pass the criteria set out then they get the money needed. Now, I'm not a business/account minded person so if going into administration is actually worse for the club that can be looked at also. Its for the Fund to organise the criteria but something along the lines above is practicable.

If we are serious about not wanting to see clubs fold when its not their own fault, then we should be lobbying our own club(s) to do something about it.

[peter w]

The one thing we can't do is turn back the clock. Salary caps are going to be hard to enforce and there's no point expecting the TV money to be more evenly redistributed.

[pdiddybaby]

We all want Randy to pump more money into Villa to get to the 'promised' land of the top 4. We are guilty of wanting more and don't think of potential consequences.

nope I do not, I want Randy after the initial investment to step away somewhat and hopefully to have put things in place that increases the revenue side to help with wages etc.

Our wage bill should certainly not go above the recommended top level of 75% of turnover and to probe you can have success without the excess of others.