Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on April 30, 2026, 09:53:34 PM
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We don't like making it easy do we.
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Forest crap..Villa crap..ref crap
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Should have been better, could have been worse.
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C-
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Gash
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Horrible side to play.
Must do better next week.
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One-nil down at HT. Not the end of the world. Welcome to Fortress Villa Park next week.
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Make it special next week Villa
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They won't be happy with 1-0. We can turn it around.
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30 years of watching us melt in finals and semis. Im sick to fucking death of it!
We need to stick a rocket up the lot of them, if we dont make this final we are an embarrassment
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Fucking shit second half. Awful.
The ref and VAR, an utter disgrace.
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That was pretty bloody poor.
We have lost all sense of attacking purpose of late - we’re ponderous and aimless.
Terrible ref and just amateur from Digne.
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we're a competent referee and a goal at home away from taking control of this tie.
support the team.
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Nothing between the teams other than 2 key VAR calls that both went for them. Mostly cancelled each other out really.
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I knew this would happen. It's so fucking Villa.
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Cock Piss Partridge
Well we need a really special European night next week.
Can we do it?
Yes.
Will we?
Not sure
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Too many shit performances
Digne
Tielemans
Glass legs Onana
Mcginn
Bogarde fuck me
Buendia abysmal
Not over but we will need an early goal
Ref atrocious
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Poor play away again. Still it would have been 0-0 until Digne realised hands at the sides or low down gifts penalties in Europe so thought there was no way it would be given if stuck straight above his head.
Would have been a more interesting tie without Anderson for both of legs but we find the only European ref who is ok with Studs up challenges. And Emi keeps his save at the season against Forest but ending up on the losing side record going.
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Poor and against a side that whilst are better than their league position suggests, are still no great shakes. It’s another no show in a big game I’m afraid, no matter how some will want to dress it up. We seemed intent on trying to create the perfect goal.
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They can’t play any better and are 1-0 from a penalty. Villa Park next week will be a much different game.
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A moment of madness by Digne. An hour of madness by Buendia!
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C-
Very very generous
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Would've taken that before the game and def when they went 1-0 after Digne's brainfart.
We're going to need some sort of attacking verve over the next three games if we want to do owt this season.
Not entirely convinced where it is going to come from.
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Onana was superb, the rest were shit.
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Utterly predictable. Another toothless performance.
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Not a disaster, didn't expect it to be an easy game at all. Villa Park we will be better. Put Anderson in a Villa shirt and we win that.
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Sell Digne the hand raising twat
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They can’t play any better and are 1-0 from a penalty. Villa Park next week will be a much different game.
Need to start creating more as we don't usually.
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Cheating bastards. We, at least, draw that if the referee or VAR do their job, and would have a massive advantage with their star player out of the second leg. Pure cowardice.
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Too many shit performances
Digne
Tielemans
Glass legs Onana
Mcginn
Bogarde fuck me
Buendia abysmal
Not over but we will need an early goal
Ref atrocious
Mc Ginn was decent.
Buendia awful
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I’m a bit concerned that we’ve lost sight a bit of the fact it’s not all about control. Against Fulham and Forest we’ve allowed to win the games through doing very little.
We need to actually try and win games.
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We were doing more or less OK until Onana went off. He was making loads of interceptions with his telescopic legs.
After that, we just sort of scrapped our way to the end without creating a single chance.
Play like that again next week and it'll be curtains.
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1-0 down 0-0 whatever, Forest have the advantage but that is all they have, it was always the case that on this kind of result we would need 2 goals or more at Villa, I'm actually more confident we can win this now, than at the start of the game tonight.
We have only one way to play now and that's going forward. Forest have a lot to think about, that's not the way they play, they are not a considered side.
No problem.
Would add to this, we need to beat Spurs at the weekend at all costs.
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The result's not a catastrophe but that was pretty terrible. No pace, no urgency and the number of times a Villa player miscontrolled the ball or dawdled and gave it away was shocking.
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We were shit, don't care how Forest played
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Both teams created nothing, bit of a turgid game and they’ve got to come to a rocking VP. I’m confident we’ll do these.
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It all feels very Old Trafford from the last game of last season. No bollocks in this team in the big moments and big games.
Forest were very ordinary and we showed them far too much respect.
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Dog shit
Forest strangled the game after the penalty and they'll see it out next week. We've fucked yet another semi final
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I refuse to accept that elliot wouldn't have been a better option than either buendia or sancho
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Pretty shit tbh.
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Another weak ref at VP and we will likely be out. I am taking a big dislike to Forest and their dirty, cheating gamesmanship, very Leeds-like.
We played for the draw and lost. Buendia and Digne were very poor, SJM and Tielemans were very quiet and poor Onana injured again.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
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People losing their minds when there's a second leg at home. Look at the teams we've beaten at home in Europe over the last three years. We're still in the tie which is what you need in Europe. Goid teams are still in the tie when the lose by 2/3 more often than not.
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Would be very different if Anderson had been correctly sent off - he’d be suspended for the second leg too.
Clattered Watkins with his studs up - it’s irrelevant that his calf touched the ball on the follow through. Crazy decision.
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Anderson should be out of the game and second leg. Ref was a ******.
See you lot in a week, you absolute ******.
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We need to PSG them without conceding the early goals. We can do this.
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Once again Emi makes a spectacular save only to be rewarded for it by a defeat.
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No doubt that Bogarde struggled, he is such a big Stepdown from Kamara and Onana. Buendia very poor, Sancho lively and I reckon he will get the nod next week. People forget he was playing well prior to the Sunderland debacle.
If we are honest, we have struggled for fluency coming forward for much of the season. We don't create enough, teams double up on Rogers and we don't have players elsewhere to take advantage. It has to be the biggest priority in the summer.
Anderson excellent for them, aside from the ankle breaker. He is a quality player.
Shite to concede from a nothing situation. Tielemans, for all his attributes, needs to score more.
They are setting off fireworks and celebrating like they are through. Let's stick it to them next
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I was somewhat confused at the commentary almost being adamant that Digne tackle in the second half was lucky not to be a red compared to Anderson crunching Watkins above the ankle after glancing the ball.
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‘Prepared’…..change to ‘Shit the Bed’.
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Once again played well within ourselves but we can't do it every game so I hope we open up in the next two games.
I would've taken that before ko tbh. Emery did with the subs and the way we took no risks.
It was always a tricky place to go, and if the roles were reversed I wouldn't be too cocky going into a second leg there with just a one goal lead
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I'm going for pens next week, where all our practice will come to good use.
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A tale of two VAR calls. I thought Anderson and MGW were unfortunately head and shoulders above our midfield for large chunks of the game, so I hope we have a decent plan to do a better job on them next week.
My big fear is we've now played 180 minutes against this lot this month, and our only goal was an own-goal. I'd feel more confident about next week if we'd at least been creating some decent chances.
I am hoping Unai's plan was to keep it tight and maybe nick one, and it was undone by the VAR pen - because if we play like that next week, we're going out.
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We need to PSG them without conceding the early goals. We can do this.
PSGing them will only take us to penalties and a 4-2 loss on those. We need a three goal lead going into the 93rd minute.
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Buendia was dreadful. He ponders on the ball and then wonders why hes been dispossessed. Too many others didnt really turn up.
Its half time, lets see how next week goes but that was predictable and far too cautious. Hey ho
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Missing Onana for the 2nd leg would be a huge miss and Bogarde proving again why we were praying for Onana to be fit to start.
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Unfortunate penalty I thought. Very tight game with attacking players well held on both teams. Onana limping off a huge issue. Other three subs were lively I thought. Need a lot more from McGinn and Tielemans particularly.
Martinez 8 - one super save and solid as a rock in the air
Cash 8 - dealt with MGW really well, strong as ever defensively and poor as ever in the opposition box
Konsa 8 - best game for some time, cool, calm and composed
Torres 6 - distribution very mixed and nervy enough defensively
Digne 5 - poor first half, distribution average and shouldn't be in the team
Onana 7 - very strong first half but yet another muscle injury
Tielemans 5 - struggled once again with pace of game, Anderson utterly dominated
McGinn 6 - just a bit off it tonight, so was Williams. Need more from the captain next week
Buendia 5 - kept losing the ball in silly positions. Overcooking the Rogers through ball was particularly poor
Rogers 7 - strong second half and a decent out ball all night
Watkins 6 - battled hard but missed a huge chance
Bogarde isn't good enough on the ball, other three were lively in fairness. Would much prefer to see Luiz and Maatsen starting.
Emery 6 - predictable line up but faith in Bogarde is misplaced. Subs at least came on a bit earlier tonight.
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Frustrating. We were starting to get on top second half before conceding the penalty.
Onana seemed to walk off ok so not sure why he had to go off really. If it is a calf strain can he recover by next week?
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If we play like that next week we won’t win.
We have to be more dynamic.
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Yet again we fail to turn up in a semi final. Martinez was ok, Cash and Konsa passable, Buendia was their best player, utterly useless waste of a shirt, list the ball so many times, Watkins lacking yet again. Digne you fucking cock. McGinn was a passenger. Need to go for it next week.
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Can’t believe our players and management didn’t make more of the Anderson challenge. Shocking
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My worry is we went full strength and struggled. We are going to have to find the net somehow at Villa Park.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
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We were doing more or less OK until Onana went off. He was making loads of interceptions with his telescopic legs.
After that, we just sort of scrapped our way to the end without creating a single chance.
Play like that again next week and it'll be curtains.
Watkins missed a sitter!
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Forest will score on the break next week. We won’t score 3. That was a fucking shite performance.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
You’d be going to the manager in the summer and asking for a transfer.
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Too many shit performances
Digne
Tielemans
Glass legs Onana
Mcginn
Bogarde fuck me
Buendia abysmal
Not over but we will need an early goal
Ref atrocious
Mc Ginn was decent.
Buendia awful
Watkins and Rogers didn’t cover themselves in glory either
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Not the worst result.
Var is bollocks - I don’t understand it. I don’t understand how the Anderson tackle is not a red. When the video shows it was high over the ball and studs up.
I then don’t understand how the on pitch referee gives it out of play and then var says it wasn’t. Both are subjective views we don’t have the technology to know iif it was out or not - we don’t have the lines like we do for offside or the goal line tech.
I think it was an even game - the ref had a shocker and we were on the wrong end of it. Play at our best and we’ll still go through comfortably
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
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We need to PSG them without conceding the early goals. We can do this.
That's it, put another way, its half time we are 1-0 down, against a team very limited in what it can do, they either bludgeons you to death or nothing, I don't think their is anything to be dejected about.
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Watkins
People losing their minds when there's a second leg at home. Look at the teams we've beaten at home in Europe over the last three years. We're still in the tie which is what you need in Europe. Goid teams are still in the tie when the lose by 2/3 more often than not.
We failed to support anyone who received the bal up the field. No one near them after 4-5 seconds after they've received the ball every fucking time.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
How did we play quite well?
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The ball wasn’t out. It was a monumentally Keith Curle decision from Digne.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
That is the crucial question. We don’t have the resources that the teams above us have, yet we have the strange Elliot situation, the strange Tammy situation and the strange Malen situation.
If we don’t achieve our goals this year, whoever sanctioned those deals should be held accountable
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We were doing more or less OK until Onana went off. He was making loads of interceptions with his telescopic legs.
After that, we just sort of scrapped our way to the end without creating a single chance.
Play like that again next week and it'll be curtains.
Watkins missed a sitter!
And Youri's shot at the end - neither was a gilt-edged chance, but a chance nonetheless. Not much else though. (I wouldn't call Sancho's shot a 'chance', really)
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There was lots of tired, ropey performances, but Buendia was absolutely appalling.
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Nothing in that game, except for a soft penalty & an obvious red card. They created even less than us.
They will make it very difficult next week.
Buendia might as well have been playing for Forest.
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I can't see us scoring twice next Thursday
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If thought this Thursday was nerve-racking, just wait till next week.
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Next week, they are absolutely going to park the bus and protect the 1-0.
And that is precisely what we struggle against.
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With our tenancy to bottle big games in recent years and Forest seeming to come into better form and scoring loads in the last couple of games I expected a complete embarrassment and an unreversable scoreline so the fact that we're still in the tie is something. Concerning though about Onana and I agree that the main issue tonight and quite often lately is the final third, Watkins looks like he's not getting enough support and we keep giving the ball away. Really depends which Villa and which Forest turn up next week but failure of 5th place beating 16th place over two legs is another total bottle job. Please do better next week.
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Watkins People losing their minds when there's a second leg at home. Look at the teams we've beaten at home in Europe over the last three years. We're still in the tie which is what you need in Europe. Goid teams are still in the tie when the lose by 2/3 more often than not.
We failed to support anyone who received the bal up the field. No one near them after 4-5 seconds after they've received the ball every fucking time.
My hope is that was just playing to the plan. Calm, composed, and not taking risks. I am hoping the home leg will be different. No gun-ho, obviously (not Unai's style), but I would hope to see more urgency and a bit more willingness to attack in numbers.
Unfortunately, they looked pretty tidy on the break, which makes me nervous as I expect we'll dominate the ball next week, and they'll just be looking to pick us off with breaks when we lose the ball.
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I thought it was a penalty but also thought Anderson’s was a clear a red as possible. It was a shocking challenge.
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Next week, they are absolutely going to park the bus and protect the 1-0.
And that is precisely what we struggle against.
Yep it’s played into their hands, and at the moment Unai doesn’t appear particularly able to get us to react when we’re behind.
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I can't see us scoring twice next Thursday
I doubt we’d score twice in training between now and then.
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Just a bit of VAR housekeeping, if they awarded the goal kick, should they really have gone back to then check the handball? Just thinking back to Rogers at Old Trafford - the ref apparently couldn't go back and review that decision of the foul on tne keeper.
Let's be honest, there have been a lot of those type of away performances this season, so it doesn't really come as a surprise
We've been a different proposition at home on the whole though, so we'll see.
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We are experts at finding ways to lose.
Terrible performance in a semi final yet again but this time we have another chance. Balls that up and I give in.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
This is a good point, where are these players, were is Allyson, and the other player who's name has escaped me he's been mentioned so little, the 2 cost 20ML, are we saying these players can't even muster a run out from time to time or have we sent them to terraform Mars or something.
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We can be so much better , I dont think they can.
Still in it but need to bloody improve loads , Im sure next week they will.
Ref was awful , be nice to see buendia control the ball and players pass to each other thou.
No creativity , no width and no intensity again. Too many games like this.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
You’d be going to the manager in the summer and asking for a transfer.
I've been thinking that for the last few months, Leon.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
We were poor and with the help of the weaknref, gifted them the game.
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Next week, they are absolutely going to park the bus and protect the 1-0.
And that is precisely what we struggle against.
Exactly what i'm thinking. Forest can smell the final.
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With our tenancy to bottle big games in recent years and Forest seeming to come into better form and scoring loads in the last couple of games I expected a complete embarrassment and an unreversable scoreline so the fact that we're still in the tie is something.
Same as that.
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Watkins People losing their minds when there's a second leg at home. Look at the teams we've beaten at home in Europe over the last three years. We're still in the tie which is what you need in Europe. Goid teams are still in the tie when the lose by 2/3 more often than not.
We failed to support anyone who received the bal up the field. No one near them after 4-5 seconds after they've received the ball every fucking time.
Hopefully the noise of the crowd will inspire more energy at home. They were allowed too much space but apart from the Emi wonder save did nothing with it.
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There was lots of tired, ropey performances, but Buendia was absolutely appalling.
I’m not one to criticise a player but Buendia had a right stinker tonight and was driving me nuts.
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Disappointed with the way we played more than the scoreline. Hopefully a rocking Villa Park will see us through but it needs to be better.
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We're hoping two insipid attacking performances becomes razor sharp again. The only difference we have is what is fans can provide at Villa Park. We will step up, but do I have faith the players will?
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
How did we play quite well?
Defended well, moved the ball well, created chances, caused them problems ... conceded an unfortunate penalty.
It's halftime!!
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We’ve been poor for about half the season. Just a great purple patch after the shocking start until just after new year has got us even close plus other teams inconsistencies.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
This takes the biscuit from a talking drivel perspective.
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We were doing more or less OK until Onana went off. He was making loads of interceptions with his telescopic legs.
After that, we just sort of scrapped our way to the end without creating a single chance.
Play like that again next week and it'll be curtains.
Watkins missed a sitter!
And Youri's shot at the end - neither was a gilt-edged chance, but a chance nonetheless. Not much else though. (I wouldn't call Sancho's shot a 'chance', really)
Tielemans was a shit effort, make him save it anyway. He's miles off it in my view. Sancho, Rogers etc efforts you expect the keeper to save them. Our set pieces were shit tonight too.
I think Maatsen into the team can give us a lot more legs in second leg, no idea why Digne is playing so much last couple of months. Buendia might be dropped too. Clear Emery hasn't much faith in Luiz but give him 60-70 mins at weekend with Tielemans at 10 and see how they go. Give Rogers a breather.
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Next week, they are absolutely going to park the bus and protect the 1-0.
And that is precisely what we struggle against.
Exactly what i'm thinking. Forest can smell the final.
Thank fuck they didn't go down to 10 as IMO were the worst team with aan advantage I've ever seen and that extends back to the late 90s.
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Next week, they are absolutely going to park the bus and protect the 1-0.
And that is precisely what we struggle against.
The way they saw the game out they should be fairly confident of succeeding. They reminded me of us first half of the season.
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I’m in Asia so have been out till after 4 am watching that so apologies for emotion.
Fuck me Digne what an idiot. Firstly I’m
Not sure he knew blonde boy was going for the ball and was slow to react. Secondly don’t wave your pissing arms in the air like a Honolulu dancer. Absolute amateur shite making the refs life simple when the ball just needed shepherding out.
They won all the midfield duels and were first to every second ball. We were tepid and off the pace all round the pitch. I honestly couldn’t name an outfield MOM.
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I thought we didn’t get much from the ref, they didn’t create much but neither did we. Buendia and Bogarde had shockers, but lots of our players a bit flat. I’m just gutted to be honest. We’ve been better than Forest for a couple of years, but when it mattered we didn’t get big performances out of Rogers, Tielemans, Watkins, McGinn, just like Olympiacos. Hopefully we pick things up next week but only Konsa, Martinez and Onana pre-injury come out with much credit tonight in our biggest game of the season.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
We were poor and with the help of the weaknref, gifted them the game.
Yes I admire the optimism, and we might turn it round at Villa Park. But if you don’t set out to score goals/don’t have a coherent way to get them you’re always exposed. Two consecutive 1-0 defeats away won’t be good for confidence. We are under pressure now.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
How did we play quite well?
Defended well, moved the ball well, created chances, caused them problems ... conceded an unfortunate penalty.
It's halftime!!
We created one chance of note that I can recall: a deflected shot that fell to Watkins. Difficult opportunity. Let’s not forget that Forrest are in a relegation battle. Jesus expectations are low.
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Onana was superb, the rest were shit.
Konsa and Big Emi played well
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Still think the ball was out for the pen.
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We have to completely go for the neck from the off next week. Shit result and less than great performance.
We need to be better next week. Much much better.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
You’d be going to the manager in the summer and asking for a transfer.
I've been thinking that for the last few months, Leon.
And to add to this; we know we need a turnover of players. I wouldn’t trust the current set up to replace or improve what we have.
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It's commendable trying to have perspective on tonight and the chances of turning it over next week, but talking about how comfortable we were in large part is a red herring. I wasn't concerned about us being uncomfortable, I was concerned about us doing something utterly fucking dumb or being on the wrong end of a dumb decision. I'm still worried about it, even if we play with the shackles off at Villa Park. I don't doubt our talent pool but our concentration absolutely sucks.
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Next week will be a very different game, no way does Forest have what it takes to 'Park the Bus' for ninety minutes, away from home, at Villa Park, we are just 1 goal down.
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3 semis on the trot,piss poor really even if it is only half time. Toothless up front yet again.
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We were largely comfortable, but we didn’t look like we had an attacking plan at all. You should be pretty comfortable if you’re just focussed on control, the problem is it’s a fucking mountain to climb if you concede first - as we’ve seen the last two games. Compounded by the fact we have no pace in our side really.
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I don't think we played that badly really and their goal was ridiculous. Concerned about the goals drying up last couple but we've scored eight in our last two home matches.
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Blimey, there's been some shite on the match thread and on here. In the first away leg ofa 2-leg semi-final, the plan is to close down the opposition and minimise goals-conceded. That's what we did, and actually we played quite well, too.
Most of our players played well: Buendia was poor and I'm surprised he started (he's better as a sub), and Bogarde was slack and unreliable. For the rest, we did fine.
Bring in next Thursday!
How did we play quite well?
Defended well, moved the ball well, created chances, caused them problems ... conceded an unfortunate penalty.
It's halftime!!
..we didn't move the ball well, we didn't create chances(their goalie had a very quiet night) and we didn't cause them problems..
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Buendia keeps his place because he drops back to defend but his touch is woeful, his golden spell is definately over, Bogarde coming on after his disaster last game is a head scratcher. We had better players on the bench but Unai doesn't play them. We are too reliant on Rogers performing miracles each game. I worry that we have fallen away at precisely the wrong time and I don't fancy us next game against a side trying to avoid relegation, lose that one and we are in dire straits.
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We need Tielemans pre injury back. He’s still way off his best.
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If somebody could explain to me how Anderton stays on the pitch I'd appreciate it.
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Forest created one real chance - the Dibu wonder save. And the pen.
Ortega made 2 decent saves in the first half and blocked Ollie's effort in the 2nd half.
Onana went off injured - should be back for the 2nd leg.
The ref/VAR were cretinous re Anderson's tackle on Watkins - a yellow at least, probably a red, but not even reviewed - how so?
Gloom and doom as ever when we lose.
Needed to be more opportunistic/aggressive when we broke forward - perhaps some shots from distance Duran style?
A rocking Villa Park next week channelling our PSG vibe - should see us through.
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It does have the distinct feeling of a deflating balloon with no obvious puncture.
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It's like we can't go up that extra gear to finish off teams and we get in a rut for a few games until we discover we have an extra level and then we look world beaters again. We have it in us to put Forest away, but we seem content to play within outselves and tiptap the ball around with no end product. Need to find our Mojo fast or we are done in the second leg. They'll sit back.
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If somebody could explain to me how Anderton stays on the pitch I'd appreciate it.
We were all too polite
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We played ok. We know what we are capable of when we play well and tonight wasn't it.
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Too many shit performances
Digne
Tielemans
Glass legs Onana
Mcginn
Bogarde fuck me
Buendia abysmal
Not over but we will need an early goal
Ref atrocious
Onana played well.
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Genuine question - can Anderson be retrospectively punished? Or is that gone? I’m outraged that he did that and waved Ollie to get up.
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These ****** think they've won it. Fireworks the lot, the 6 fingered fucking slags.
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Buendia has had his moments but as the season has gone on its become more obvious that he should only really be used as a super sub, when the opposition are fucked and he can hurt them with fresh legs and clever play around the penalty area. As a starter he's mostly a liability.
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Next week is going to be the defining moment in Unai’s tenure.
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Rogers, for a bloody big fella, is getting knocked off the ball far too easily lately. A far cry from the player who had Declan Rice bouncing off him when he broke into the team.
If he’s being doubled up on, stop holding onto the ball so long and bloody release it!
Fuming! How many more times are we going to shit the bed when it matters?!
Forward play across the team was abysmal tonight. If Onana is missing next week. I think we can kiss goodbye to Istanbul.
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Onana was superb, the rest were shit.
Konsa and Big Emi played well
Actually, you’re quite right, Konsa did play very and after Onana went off it was really only him trying to drive us forward.
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VAR is supposed to be there for clear and obvious errors, yet can call a ball a millimetre in play, and not call a near leg breaking challenge.
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Onana was really good
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It was actually the kind of performance i feared tonight. It's carried over from the Fulham game.
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If somebody could explain to me how Anderton stays on the pitch I'd appreciate it.
We were all too polite
There’s something to be said how other teams chase down a ref and we don’t.
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Rogers, for a bloody big fella, is getting knocked off the ball far too easily lately. A far cry from the player who had Declan Rice bouncing off him when he broke into the team.
If he’s being doubled up on, stop holding onto the ball so long and bloody release it!
Fuming! How many more times are we going to shit the bed when it matters?!
Forward play across the team was abysmal tonight. If Onana is missing next week. I think we can kiss goodbye to Istanbul.
Well part of the problem with that is he often had no one around him to give the ball. The absence of movement, and running from midfield makes it so bloody difficult.
I don’t want to labour on it, but Buendia was so bad it was scarcely believable.
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Still think the ball was out for the pen.
Agreed. I certainly didn’t see anything that conclusively proved that it wasn’t out. The frame of the goal is in front of the ball, which means it is closer, which due to the laws of perspective means it is bigger.
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Complacency...a reminder!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21022502
After this I have no doubt we can fuck it up next week!
:-(
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Assuming Onana is out for next week Unai now has a huge dilemma again. McGinn more central maybe and a Sancho start. Forest got a penalty tonight when we were so comfortable. They are certainly getting these slices of good fortune in this Europa Cup at key moments. It is annoying that Villa don't impose ourselves in an attacking sense on these away games. Forest looked very ordinary yet we couldn't raise our levels which is a real worry. This team simply have to get over the line next Thursday. The fallout will quite rightly point to constant failure in the crucial games.
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Rogers, for a bloody big fella, is getting knocked off the ball far too easily lately. A far cry from the player who had Declan Rice bouncing off him when he broke into the team.
If he’s being doubled up on, stop holding onto the ball so long and bloody release it!
Fuming! How many more times are we going to shit the bed when it matters?!
Forward play across the team was abysmal tonight. If Onana is missing next week. I think we can kiss goodbye to Istanbul.
Well part of the problem with that is he often had no one around him to give the ball. The absence of movement, and running from midfield makes it so bloody difficult.
I don’t want to labour on it, but Buendia was so bad it was scarcely believable.
As soon as Rogers has the ball he’s surrounded by three or four players. This should give space to anyone trying to capitalise on that, but we lack the quality in the final third sometimes.
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Still think the ball was out for the pen.
Agreed. I certainly didn’t see anything that conclusively proved that it wasn’t out. The frame of the goal is in front of the ball, which means it is closer, which due to the laws of perspective means it is bigger.
Ball wasn't out, and Digne was a dick in the moment.
Not the result we wanted but we are still in this.
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It's half time and 1-0 down is not a bad result. Next Thursday night, Villa Park must play its part - we can do this! UTV.
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andy reid is a c&&&
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In fact win fuck all again and I'm going to question "what's the point?"
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Stupid pen to give away was looking an almost certain nil nil, hopefully Onana wtll be fit for next week, we missed him badly when he went off. Buendia was dreadful, should have been subbed at half time.
It's 50/50 going into next week, the way the players were playing endless passes across the back 4 in the last few minutes, it seemed they were happy with the score. The best move of the match was saved until the 90th min, started with a quick throw out from Emi and ended with Tielemans striking the ball over the bar.
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Onana calf. Unai said we will work on him next few days
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These ****** think they've won it. Fireworks the lot, the 6 fingered fucking slags.
I do enjoy you when you're angry.
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He’s not playing against spurs.
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Hush up Karen Carney. Go get a shave.
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Forest created one real chance - the Dibu wonder save. And the pen.
Ortega made 2 decent saves in the first half and blocked Ollie's effort in the 2nd half.
Onana went off injured - should be back for the 2nd leg.
The ref/VAR were cretinous re Anderson's tackle on Watkins - a yellow at least, probably a red, but not even reviewed - how so?
Gloom and doom as ever when we lose.
Needed to be more opportunistic/aggressive when we broke forward - perhaps some shots from distance Duran style?
A rocking Villa Park next week channelling our PSG vibe - should see us through.
Exactly.
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Welcome to Villa Unai.
FT: Nottingham Forest 1-0 Aston Villa
Unai Emery lost a leg of a Europa League semi-final for the first time since his Sevilla side lost 3-1 at Valencia in May 2014, having gone unbeaten in eight straight semi-final matches in the competition before today (W6 D2
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Could try Luiz and McGinn in middle v Spurs. Interesting that Sancho came onto the left tonight and Rogers went right. Still there for us but we need a strong performance v Spurs to tee us up nicely for it.
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
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Deep down, I think Unai will not be to disappointed with that result. Even our players seemed to settle for 1-0.
We all know what Villa Park is like on a big european night and I reckon the villans in the crowd will roar/energise the lads over the line. We will be set up to attack with a lot more intent and I didn't see anything from Forest tonight to worry us on the counter attack.
It will be all guns blazing in the second half.
3-1 Villa on aggregate
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Welcome to Villa Unai.
FT: Nottingham Forest 1-0 Aston Villa
Unai Emery lost a leg of a Europa League semi-final for the first time since his Sevilla side lost 3-1 at Valencia in May 2014, having gone unbeaten in eight straight semi-final matches in the competition before today (W6 D2
Well it’s 4 semi-final games played 4 lost for us so far. Hopefully the 5th times a charm.
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Will we actually turn up? And if we don’t what is the point of even competing. Made it harder for ourselves than needs be. I am not happy going into next week a goal down. But predictable as this is Aston rabbit in the headlights Villa.
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With previous Emery teams, 1-0 down against Forest with the home leg still to go, I’d absolutely fancy us.
That’s not the case at the minute - I’m not sure this team has it in them. I hope I’m wrong.
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Carrying on from before the match, I don't think I've ever seen a more biased report than Nick the prick Mashiter on the BBC.
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
Would have been a red in the Premier League. I'm still a bit puzzled by the process of the penalty award. He clearly gave a goal kick, so for a penalty to be awarded, they had to overturn the goal kick decision first and I'm not sure how they could do that.
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Another manager we've destroyed!
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And another one! (Villa no-show in a semi-final)
Thank goodness it's only 1-0
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I must've misunderstood and we've been knocked out tonight. I'm gonna give people the benefit of the doubt and presume beers have been consumed. Jesus.
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
Would have been a red in the Premier League. I'm still a bit puzzled by the process of the penalty award. He clearly gave a goal kick, so for a penalty to be awarded, they had to overturn the goal kick decision first and I'm not sure how they could do that.
It was clearly not fully over the line as shown by several angles. Its just unforgivable from Digne
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Fucking, I just hate Villa.
I was born in 1990, I don't really remember the 90s League Cups. However - I remember the worst FA Cup final in history, I remember the Vidic-Terry diumverate of fuck in 2010, I remember the Bradford debacle, the Arsenal debacle, the Olympiakos debacle, the Crystal Palace debacle.
And now this fucking shit. It's always something. I suppose the atrocious Anderson decision (reminded me irresistibly of Gerrard's red on Boateng some 25 years ago) makes a bit of a triumvirate of fuck, albeit from an absolute homer of a ref rather than a craven sycophant. But it's also a shiteshow. What in the fuck Digne, a reliable and experienced player, was thinking...We managed turn a 0-0 into a 0-1 with that shit.
I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of our biggest games being always our worst performances. I'm sick of our bad form whenever the business end happens, whether our coach is one of the best in the business or Tim actual Sherwood (sorry Unai, your Europa League magic is no match for The Curse). I'm sick of it always being fucking something, we never just have a nice, good day. And I wouldn't mind as much if we never got close, it's the endless fandancing that annoys me. Like, for Christ's sake Salome, either take it off or put it all away and stop bothering me.
No problem with Forest, proper club, not their fault they got that ref, I'm sure we'd be happy as anything with the roles reversed and I can't blame them. It's not like they're Chelsea.
At least there's the second leg. Lol.
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Last season I called us "The New Spurs" because we have become the stereotypical "Bottlers" - but I suppose it could be worse? Although our "nearest and dearest" have the shout that they were the last West Midlands team to win a trophy :-(
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Last season I called us "The New Spurs" because we have become the stereotypical "Bottlers" - but I suppose it could be worse? Although our "nearest and dearest" have the shout that they were the last West Midlands team to win a trophy :-(
It's half time!
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Terry's tackle on Milner comes to mind.
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Mentality is just something that can't be coached. You earn it through putting everything on the line to win. How many Villa players since those League Cups can you say we've had that applies to?
Turn up, get the flags out, have a picnic and go home skint. That's how Villa do things. If we ever want it to stop, next week has to be the time, because if we don't do it then, we never will again.
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What concerns me is the lack of chances we created, again.
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
Would have been a red in the Premier League. I'm still a bit puzzled by the process of the penalty award. He clearly gave a goal kick, so for a penalty to be awarded, they had to overturn the goal kick decision first and I'm not sure how they could do that.
As said above, the referee gave a goal kick award. As far as I am aware the VAR has no decision to make regarding goal kicks or corner kicks. Therefore how come the VAR got involved when the referee had made the decision that the ball went out of play and awarded a goal kick.
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Predictable negativity to an OK result.
We'll win the second leg comfortably.
See you after the second leg.
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I do not and WILL NOT believe that Monty is ten years younger than me.
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In fact win fuck all again and I'm going to question "what's the point?"
Bye.
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We're a different beast at home. We'll be fine next week.
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Predictable negativity to an OK result.
We'll win the second leg comfortably.
See you after the second leg.
Exactly this.
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Predictable negativity to an OK result.
We'll win the second leg comfortably.
See you after the second leg.
If he plays Rogers in the middle and picks old man Digne again next week, I wouldn’t be so confident, to be honest.
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It is highly annoying and would be just so, fucking so Villa, to manage to fuck this up.
However, it's only 1-0, and turgid though we were at times, and have been away for a long while now, it was very nearly 0-0. We can do Forest at home, no doubt about that.
We just need to fucking deliver and get it done. No more final (or final minus one) hurdle fuck ups, Villa.
I don't see us ever having a better manager than this one, and better owners than these, so if we still manage to not win anything this season, or not qualify for the CL, I reckon we all just find a new hobby.
Because that, too, would be SO Villa.
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We show no nous going forwards. Massive up hill battle now because they'll put everyone behind the ball and hope we get edgy and make a nervous mistake.
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
Would have been a red in the Premier League. I'm still a bit puzzled by the process of the penalty award. He clearly gave a goal kick, so for a penalty to be awarded, they had to overturn the goal kick decision first and I'm not sure how they could do that.
As said above, the referee gave a goal kick award. As far as I am aware the VAR has no decision to make regarding goal kicks or corner kicks. Therefore how come the VAR got involved when the referee had made the decision that the ball went out of play and awarded a goal kick.
That's what I don't get. In the one still they showed it was pretty clear the ball had left the Forest player's foot so wasn't accurate. Take the Rogers goal at Old Trafford last season. The referee gave a foul, but we were told that they could not go back and look at that decision even though it was wrong.
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Not going to litigate the pen, would've been apoplectic not to have got it the other way. It's just a tale of two VARs - or rather, of one dog that didn't VARk in the nighttime.
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We show no nous going forwards. Massive up hill battle now because they'll put everyone behind the ball and hope we get edgy and make a nervous mistake.
Getting worse over the last 3 seasons.
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We need a much more attacking line up next week.
Maatsen & Sancho to start. No Digne or Buendia.
Forest will definitely park the bus.
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The ball wasn’t out. It was a monumentally Keith Curle decision from Digne.
Nothing like the Keith Curle penalty. I clearly remember him catching the ball with both hands, running to the ref blowing on his whistle putting the ball on the penalty spot then stamping on his own keepers hands while muttering f*ck you Man U.
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We show no nous going forwards. Massive up hill battle now because they'll put everyone behind the ball and hope we get edgy and make a nervous mistake.
Getting worse over the last 3 seasons.
I'm gonna blow your minds here. it's because our attack, as a collective, isn't top level. It was better last season and the season before. But we're still in the Champions League spots, comfortably, and have a one goal deficit going into the home leg of a European semi-final.
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We show no nous going forwards. Massive up hill battle now because they'll put everyone behind the ball and hope we get edgy and make a nervous mistake.
Getting worse over the last 3 seasons.
I'm gonna blow your minds here. it's because our attack, as a collective, isn't top level. It was better last season and the season before. But we're still in the Champions League spots, comfortably, and have a one goal deficit going into the home leg of a European semi-final.
Nah, we’re shit and the tie is lost. No point turning up next week.
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Result based on VAR intervening on one big call and not another.
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Result based on VAR intervening on one big call and not another.
Agreed. The one doesn't happen if the other is called correctly either. What can you do?
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We show no nous going forwards. Massive up hill battle now because they'll put everyone behind the ball and hope we get edgy and make a nervous mistake.
Getting worse over the last 3 seasons.
I'm gonna blow your minds here. it's because our attack, as a collective, isn't top level. It was better last season and the season before. But we're still in the Champions League spots, comfortably, and have a one goal deficit going into the home leg of a European semi-final.
Nah, we’re shit and the tie is lost. No point turning up next week.
Call it off. We're Villa. We're shit. Last time I checked we were in the Championship 6/7 years ago. That was shit. This is great.
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Last season I called us "The New Spurs" because we have become the stereotypical "Bottlers" - but I suppose it could be worse? Although our "nearest and dearest" have the shout that they were the last West Midlands team to win a trophy :-(
I suggest you go and support another side or take up another hobby
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It feels like some sort of collective breakdown brought on by us having too much riding on the competition because the wait has been so long for silverware.
We have 7 days to get it out of our system and make Villa Park roar us over the line.
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First time I can remember Emery being very vocal about the decision not to send off Anderson. He's not very happy at all.
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Thank you
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Bit of a nothing game with neither team willing to commit the players forward needed to make it better.
The game plan nearly worked, Digne is a fucking idiot.
I wasn’t confident before so not unduly terrified going into the second leg 1 down.
The Anderson tackle, mistimed. I honestly thought the ref was really good letting the game flow and the tackles land
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
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Unai was right in the sight line and didn’t react, he immediately looked away and gave someone else a bollocking
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First time I can remember Emery being very vocal about the decision not to send off Anderson. He's not very happy at all.
Long overdue really. We might not like it and hate it when others do it but we’ve been far too passive about past poor decisions that have gone against us in the past and we’ve had to tolerate some absolute whoppers.
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Fucking, I just hate Villa.
I was born in 1990, I don't really remember the 90s League Cups. However - I remember the worst FA Cup final in history, I remember the Vidic-Terry diumverate of fuck in 2010, I remember the Bradford debacle, the Arsenal debacle, the Olympiakos debacle, the Crystal Palace debacle.
And now this fucking shit. It's always something. I suppose the atrocious Anderson decision (reminded me irresistibly of Gerrard's red on Boateng some 25 years ago) makes a bit of a triumvirate of fuck, albeit from an absolute homer of a ref rather than a craven sycophant. But it's also a shiteshow. What in the fuck Digne, a reliable and experienced player, was thinking...We managed turn a 0-0 into a 0-1 with that shit.
I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of our biggest games being always our worst performances. I'm sick of our bad form whenever the business end happens, whether our coach is one of the best in the business or Tim actual Sherwood (sorry Unai, your Europa League magic is no match for The Curse). I'm sick of it always being fucking something, we never just have a nice, good day. And I wouldn't mind as much if we never got close, it's the endless fandancing that annoys me. Like, for Christ's sake Salome, either take it off or put it all away and stop bothering me.
No problem with Forest, proper club, not their fault they got that ref, I'm sure we'd be happy as anything with the roles reversed and I can't blame them. It's not like they're Chelsea.
At least there's the second leg. Lol.
I'm the same age mate. Seen Bolton, Palace, Bradford and countless other shithouse teams confidently dispatch us when it matters.
Starting to become a bit numb to it tbh, it's almost more painful to get so so close and fail so often than to never get anywhere near.
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
Yep, tells its own story. Still goes out of his way to praise the ref, to say it wasn't his fault, to be a gent about it all, but yeah. Insane that the VAR hasn't sent the ref to the monitor over that.
I think it's the outrage over player safety that's sent him over the edge tbh. Like, reds for hairpulling but not for possible ankle-breakers? It's not right.
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Back in the day that would have prompted a brawl with a couple of players sent off, usually one from each side to keep the game an even contest.
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These ****** think they've won it. Fireworks the lot, the 6 fingered fucking slags.
I do enjoy you when you're angry.
To be fair to them, the fireworks are from a local restaurant who set them off when they win, it's not the club. As you were with the slag stuff.
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We’re 1-0 down with 90 Minutes to go. I think we will prevail.
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Would have been interesting, if Digne had realised he was playing Football and not Handball, if the lino would have flagged for it crossing the line before any chance on goal from the cross. I know they hold back on offsides but not sure on balls crossing lines.
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C-
What about attendance and good attitude to learning?
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Would have been interesting, if Digne had realised he was playing Football and not Handball, if the lino would have flagged for it crossing the line before any chance on goal from the cross. I know they hold back on offsides but not sure on balls crossing lines.
The ref clearly gave a goal kick, so the lino must have flagged. The VAR official then intervened and the award of the goal kick was overturned despite there being no real definitive proof that an error was made. Brentford at home all over again.
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Onana calf.
Calf or Veal?
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These ****** think they've won it. Fireworks the lot, the 6 fingered fucking slags.
I do enjoy you when you're angry.
Its a common sex fettish.
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Would have been interesting, if Digne had realised he was playing Football and not Handball, if the lino would have flagged for it crossing the line before any chance on goal from the cross. I know they hold back on offsides but not sure on balls crossing lines.
The ref clearly gave a goal kick, so the lino must have flagged. The VAR official then intervened and the award of the goal kick was overturned despite there being no real definitive proof that an error was made. Brentford at home all over again.
Unlike the Brentford one, there was a camera pretty much in line with the goal line and goal posts are the same width as goal lines so with the ball not clearing the post, I would state it was in. If he blew straight after the cross hit the arm, then I suspect it was after the hit on the hand but before any goal would have been scored.
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Would have been interesting, if Digne had realised he was playing Football and not Handball, if the lino would have flagged for it crossing the line before any chance on goal from the cross. I know they hold back on offsides but not sure on balls crossing lines.
The ref clearly gave a goal kick, so the lino must have flagged. The VAR official then intervened and the award of the goal kick was overturned despite there being no real definitive proof that an error was made. Brentford at home all over again.
Unlike the Brentford one, there was a camera pretty much in line with the goal line and goal posts are the same width as goal lines so with the ball not clearing the post, I would state it was in. If he blew straight after the cross hit the arm, then I suspect it was after the hit on the hand but before any goal would have been scored.
In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
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I’ve decided and I’m convinced we are going to fucking funeral them in the second leg.
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In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
You do realise the still was used for the illustration purposes and whole frame set is reviewed until they find one as close to contact as 1/100th* of a second allows. But I was also making my own judgement based on the slo-mo shown by TNT where the leg is about to make contact and half the ball is pitchside of the goal post and when contact is made a small sliver is showing the other side of the post and it goes almost straight up. So yes, it was wasn't over the line.
On rewatching it again, Digne was claiming the ball had crossed the line and it was "our ball". No Lucas, it wasn't, keep you hands down next time.
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Buendia was just awful, and Bogarde was almost as bad.
It is really difficult to win football matches when you consistently give the ball to the opposition
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These ****** think they've won it. Fireworks the lot, the 6 fingered fucking slags.
I do enjoy you when you're angry.
Its a common sex fettish.
Specific to Ads?
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
Yep, tells its own story. Still goes out of his way to praise the ref, to say it wasn't his fault, to be a gent about it all, but yeah. Insane that the VAR hasn't sent the ref to the monitor over that.
I think it's the outrage over player safety that's sent him over the edge tbh. Like, reds for hairpulling but not for possible ankle-breakers? It's not right.
I agree that concern for a player's welfare makes an incident like that much more serious than just a bad decision.
Don't agree with the downplaying of hair-pulling. That can cause serious neck injuries, and should be a red card.
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We had it under control and save a daft penalty that had 0-0 written all over it. The tie is far from over.
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I do not and WILL NOT believe that Monty is ten years younger than me.
That's the most shocking thing I've read on this thread. My mental image of him is at least a decade or two older.
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and he's wearing a beret, right ?
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Ex ref Keith Hackett’s opinion on the Anderson tackle on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footyinsider247/status/2049960734713409844?s=46
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Would have been interesting, if Digne had realised he was playing Football and not Handball, if the lino would have flagged for it crossing the line before any chance on goal from the cross. I know they hold back on offsides but not sure on balls crossing lines.
The ref clearly gave a goal kick, so the lino must have flagged. The VAR official then intervened and the award of the goal kick was overturned despite there being no real definitive proof that an error was made. Brentford at home all over again.
Unlike the Brentford one, there was a camera pretty much in line with the goal line and goal posts are the same width as goal lines so with the ball not clearing the post, I would state it was in. If he blew straight after the cross hit the arm, then I suspect it was after the hit on the hand but before any goal would have been scored.
In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
Correct. As you say, like Brentford, where there was no conclusive proof to overturn the original decision.
Ironic, as there was more conclusive proof to overturn the Rogers “foul” at OT.
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In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
You do realise the still was used for the illustration purposes and whole frame set is reviewed until they find one as close to contact as 1/100th* of a second allows. But I was also making my own judgement based on the slo-mo shown by TNT where the leg is about to make contact and half the ball is pitchside of the goal post and when contact is made a small sliver is showing the other side of the post and it goes almost straight up. So yes, it was wasn't over the line.
On rewatching it again, Digne was claiming the ball had crossed the line and it was "our ball". No Lucas, it wasn't, keep you hands down next time.
Where in the rules does it say that VAR is responsible for ensuring the correct decision is arrived at re: the awarding of goal kicks?
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I do not and WILL NOT believe that Monty is ten years younger than me.
That's the most shocking thing I've read on this thread. My mental image of him is at least a decade or two older.
You haven't seen his thighs, like I have.
Beautifully toned.
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Bit of an attritional game last night in which we, as the away side, had at least an equal share of the play on just about every metric except VAR.
We were patchy but it was more a question of fine margins and fortune, I felt. I mean, did we actually play worse than, say, away at Bologna?
That misfortune was compounded by the loss of Onana.
Still, we were always going to have to win at Villa Park, so the dial hasn't been turned that much. We're going to need to suffer to win through, I suspect.
One thing though... Dougie against Olympiacos, Mings against Bruges, now Digne at Forest... I mean, seriously, Villa?
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On Andy Reid’s argument that Anderson won the ball and it was just a coming together between two players: What the actual fuck?Anderson went over the top of the ball with his studs up and went into Watkins’ ankle
With his full momentum. That is the definition of being out of control.
Would have been a red in the Premier League. I'm still a bit puzzled by the process of the penalty award. He clearly gave a goal kick, so for a penalty to be awarded, they had to overturn the goal kick decision first and I'm not sure how they could do that.
As said above, the referee gave a goal kick award. As far as I am aware the VAR has no decision to make regarding goal kicks or corner kicks. Therefore how come the VAR got involved when the referee had made the decision that the ball went out of play and awarded a goal kick.
it didnt check for goal kick or corner it checked for a possible handball before the ball went out.
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Played ok defensively, offensively pretty poor again as we have been away from home for a while.
Lady Luck/VAR wank went against as per normal in any big game.
Not overly confident for the return as we’ve given Forest something to hang onto and I suspect they’ll do just that.
Stupid me for getting my hopes up that a generational, stellar performance last night would occur and we’d be in control of the tie.
Pretty pissed off all in all this morning.
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Let’s be clear there’s two things here - it’s not an ideal result, but it’s far from a disaster. We wouldn’t have taken it before the game, but it’s a manageable scoreline.
However, it was a deliberate approach to focus on control - which isn’t a surprise - but in doing so that was clearly with the primary intent of not conceding. As a result we struggled to change gear when we went behind.
We have to take a different approach in the home leg - I’m not meaning complete hell for leather attack, but we have to be so much more coherent and purposeful in attack. We’re highly unlikely to go through if we only create a handful of chances.
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It was important that the ref didn’t let them get away with their usual wrestling. But he did. They got the marginal decisions.
They are the ugliest team, both facially and in how they play.
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Still gutted this morning. I mean just by the law of averages we should be getting through one of these semi finals, but we always manage to find a way to Villa it all up.
We've got a chance next week but I can't deal with getting my hopes up again.
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Carrying on from before the match, I don't think I've ever seen a more biased report than Nick the prick Mashiter on the BBC.
Yes I don’t really get his agenda.
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They are the ugliest team, both facially and in how they play.
And yet these are the qualities of knockout football which seems to stop us winning competitions. No guile, no acknowledgement that marginal decisions can be unfair. And a troglodyte Forest team is in with a better chance of winning a trophy than us because they're not looking to win friends.
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Didn’t comment last night as everyone seemed a bit fraught. I was the most nervous before a game than I can ever remember, stakes being high for all sorts of reasons and deep down I feared coming away two or three down
I dont know if its because i watched it in the Warehouse, which a rocking good atmosphere to be honest, really really loud, that I just didn’t see the turgidity that some people mentioned.
I saw a bit of a blood and thunder game, with two teams going at each other and a draw would of been a completely fair result. We make a mistake and get punished, before that they should of been down to ten men for a shocking tackle and in one way or another that changes the game.
They had the chance when Martinez makes a worldie, we had the chance when it came at Watkins quickly.
Im really not be one eyed here, but there is not a part of me that does not envisage us winning that game of football next Thursday.
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First time I can remember Emery being very vocal about the decision not to send off Anderson. He's not very happy at all.
Long overdue really. We might not like it and hate it when others do it but we’ve been far too passive about past poor decisions that have gone against us in the past and we’ve had to tolerate some absolute whoppers.
The standard of refs is such we have to do it as it’s the only way to get a decision
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Didn’t comment last night as everyone seemed a bit fraught. I was the most nervous before a game than I can ever remember, stakes being high for all sorts of reasons and deep down I feared coming away two or three down
I dont know if its because i watched it in the Warehouse, which a rocking good atmosphere to be honest, really really loud, that I just didn’t see the turgidity that some people mentioned.
I saw a bit of a blood and thunder game, with two teams going at each other and a draw would of been a completely fair result. We make a mistake and get punished, before that they should of been down to ten men for a shocking tackle and in one way or another that changes the game.
They had the chance when Martinez makes a worldie, we had the chance when it came at Watkins quickly.
Im really not be one eyed here, but there is not a part of me that does not envisage us winning that game of football next Thursday.
I'm in agreement with this and yes a big shout for The Warehouse atmosphere last night.
I think we were at the wrong end of a very tight game which I think we put right next week.
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I do not and WILL NOT believe that Monty is ten years younger than me.
That's the most shocking thing I've read on this thread. My mental image of him is at least a decade or two older.
This has been my main take away from the night. Villa lost, vars shit and I’m old
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Surely this group will give it their all next Thursday and get this over the line. Otherwise it's Olympiakos, Palace, Notts Forest. 3 Semi Finals against 3 very beatable sides all lost. It would be hard to not say they can't manage the biggest moments in knockout games and that would be a hard way for this to end for them.
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In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
You do realise the still was used for the illustration purposes and whole frame set is reviewed until they find one as close to contact as 1/100th* of a second allows. But I was also making my own judgement based on the slo-mo shown by TNT where the leg is about to make contact and half the ball is pitchside of the goal post and when contact is made a small sliver is showing the other side of the post and it goes almost straight up. So yes, it was wasn't over the line.
On rewatching it again, Digne was claiming the ball had crossed the line and it was "our ball". No Lucas, it wasn't, keep you hands down next time.
I genuinely don't know what they do or watch to be totally honest. It's more how get can overturn the awarding of a goal.kick that puzzles me.
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The way forest celebrated at end you would think the tie is done.
I really hope we turn up 2nd leg as we were not at our best at all. Too many poor performers like buendia, digne and youri. All had stinkers
We need to come up with a plan B as all our attacking play was coming from morgan and they just doubled up on him.
Next week get dougie in there at least he tries to make things happen. Go him youri and mcginn. Maybe even sancho instead of buendia too
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My take is this. Until that daft pen, the game was panning out exactly as we wanted it to, we controlled the game and gave them very little - in fact at HT I felt that we were going to go on and win it. We were badly let down by VAR, and whatever Digne was thinking is anyone's guess - in the end I was just hoping that we could keep it at 1-0, because I honestly believe we'll turn this lot over at VP next week. For that to happen, we need to take the game to them from the off and look to score early - we also need more width, so for what it's worth I'd start SJM in the 10, play Sancho (yes I've said it) on the wing and bring Maatsen in for Digne. One thing is for sure, when our chances come, we have to bloody well take them - Watkins and Rogers need to be 100% on it.
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Far too passive, like in so many cup matches. We’re not done yet, but we don’t half make it difficult for ourselves.
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My worry is that it will end up going to pens, which will terrify me, looking at Wood's penalty, I can't remember the last time a Villa player hit a pen like that.
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My take is this. Until that daft pen, the game was panning out exactly as we wanted it to, we controlled the game and gave them very little - in fact at HT I felt that we were going to go on and win it. We were badly let down by VAR, and whatever Digne was thinking is anyone's guess - in the end I was just hoping that we could keep it at 1-0, because I honestly believe we'll turn this lot over at VP next week. For that to happen, we need to take the game to them from the off and look to score early - we also need more width, so for what it's worth I'd start SJM in the 10, play Sancho (yes I've said it) on the wing and bring Maatsen in for Digne. One thing is for sure, when our chances come, we have to bloody well take them - Watkins and Rogers need to be 100% on it.
If we score early, i can see us beating forest and them crumbling. But if we start with this slow patient side passing shit again it just helps forest. As you say we need to start quickly
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Didn’t comment last night as everyone seemed a bit fraught. I was the most nervous before a game than I can ever remember, stakes being high for all sorts of reasons and deep down I feared coming away two or three down
I dont know if its because i watched it in the Warehouse, which a rocking good atmosphere to be honest, really really loud, that I just didn’t see the turgidity that some people mentioned.
I saw a bit of a blood and thunder game, with two teams going at each other and a draw would of been a completely fair result. We make a mistake and get punished, before that they should of been down to ten men for a shocking tackle and in one way or another that changes the game.
They had the chance when Martinez makes a worldie, we had the chance when it came at Watkins quickly.
Im really not be one eyed here, but there is not a part of me that does not envisage us winning that game of football next Thursday.
Totally agree with your game-assessment, mate; nice to read something with a bit of perspective
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In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
You do realise the still was used for the illustration purposes and whole frame set is reviewed until they find one as close to contact as 1/100th* of a second allows. But I was also making my own judgement based on the slo-mo shown by TNT where the leg is about to make contact and half the ball is pitchside of the goal post and when contact is made a small sliver is showing the other side of the post and it goes almost straight up. So yes, it was wasn't over the line.
On rewatching it again, Digne was claiming the ball had crossed the line and it was "our ball". No Lucas, it wasn't, keep you hands down next time.
I genuinely don't know what they do or watch to be totally honest. It's more how get can overturn the awarding of a goal.kick that puzzles me.
VAR is there to adjudicate on a possible penalty, if they had determined the ball was out of play they wouldn’t have given the penalty, they did, it wasn’t, penalty.
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I honestly think Anderson only stayed on the pitch because of Ollie's honesty in carrying on playing after a truly dangerous tackle. Maybe, we are too honest. If that was a Chelsea or Citeh player, they would still be rolling over this morning. He was completely out of control with studs raised and a straight leg contact on his opponents ankle. That is a straight red card every day of the week.
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My worry is that it will end up going to pens, which will terrify me, looking at Wood's penalty, I can't remember the last time a Villa player hit a pen like that.
Gazza Bazza and Benteke used to hammer the penalties. I was always confident with them as takers.
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I honestly think Anderson only stayed on the pitch because of Ollie's honesty in carrying on playing after a truly dangerous tackle. Maybe, we are too honest. If that was a Chelsea or Citeh player, they would still be rolling over this morning. He was completely out of control with studs raised and a straight leg contact on his opponents ankle. That is a straight red card every day of the week.
I agree with this its a fantastic point. If that happened to a arsenal or manure player they would swarm the ref we should be doing the same in key games like this. Absolute joke that not even a yellow for that. I honestly cannot believe it.
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
Yep, tells its own story. Still goes out of his way to praise the ref, to say it wasn't his fault, to be a gent about it all, but yeah. Insane that the VAR hasn't sent the ref to the monitor over that.
I think it's the outrage over player safety that's sent him over the edge tbh. Like, reds for hairpulling but not for possible ankle-breakers? It's not right.
I agree that concern for a player's welfare makes an incident like that much more serious than just a bad decision.
Don't agree with the downplaying of hair-pulling. That can cause serious neck injuries, and should be a red card.
Fair enough, though to maintain the comparison - I don't think it's as likely to cause serious injury as going in studs-up on someone's ankle!
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I really hope we just go for it next week. They will definitely play a back 5 with 4 across midfield in a low block and hope to hit the back post for that ugly twat up front to head in. I'd consider playing Tammy and Watkins from the start.
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
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I really hope we just go for it next week. They will definitely play a back 5 with 4 across midfield in a low block and hope to hit the back post for that ugly twat up front to head in. I'd consider playing Tammy and Watkins from the start.
I wouldn’t normally consider that, but given Buendia was so bad it couldn’t hurt. I’d be more inclined to start with Sancho though.
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Don't shoot me, but given Buendia's indifferent performance last night, would playing Elliott in the 10 next week be any worse? Just a thought?
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In the still that you mention, the ball has either already left the player's foot or hasn't got there yet. Either way, it doesn't capture the precise moment of contact so can't be accurate. It might be arguing semantics, but you've got officials basically making their own processes up at critical points in massive games.
You do realise the still was used for the illustration purposes and whole frame set is reviewed until they find one as close to contact as 1/100th* of a second allows. But I was also making my own judgement based on the slo-mo shown by TNT where the leg is about to make contact and half the ball is pitchside of the goal post and when contact is made a small sliver is showing the other side of the post and it goes almost straight up. So yes, it was wasn't over the line.
On rewatching it again, Digne was claiming the ball had crossed the line and it was "our ball". No Lucas, it wasn't, keep you hands down next time.
Where in the rules does it say that VAR is responsible for ensuring the correct decision is arrived at re: the awarding of goal kicks?
They make the decision because of potential penalty which is in their remit and was the action straight after. If it had hit anywhere else on Digne then there wouldn't have been anything to check, if it had not hit him, but the pullback had been scored then VAR would have been involved again, as is their remit whilst the whistle hasn't been blown.
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
Brilliant
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Possible penalty takers for us? Luiz, Abraham, Tielemans, Rogers, McGinn, Cash?
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I honestly think Anderson only stayed on the pitch because of Ollie's honesty in carrying on playing after a truly dangerous tackle. Maybe, we are too honest. If that was a Chelsea or Citeh player, they would still be rolling over this morning. He was completely out of control with studs raised and a straight leg contact on his opponents ankle. That is a straight red card every day of the week.
If it was cucarella getting fouled he would be rolling until he fell into the river Trent .
Get a goal next week in the first 25 mins and its ours .
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Possible penalty takers for us? Luiz, Abraham, Tielemans, Rogers, McGinn, Cash?
I would be surprised to score more than 2 from that list. Genuinely, even with Martinez in goal, there is zero chance we are winning a penalty shoot out.
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Well, we have another chance to redeem ourselves and prove we aren’t bottling another big moment again, but we had nothing up front tonight.
Really don't understand why we bothered buying Abraham. Surely he can't be that bad? Less than zero can only be.
You’d be going to the manager in the summer and asking for a transfer.
I've been thinking that for the last few months, Leon.
Who are you going to sign for, Rudy.
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
VAR intervenes because of a potential penalty due to Digne deciding to call for "our ball" with his hand over his head whilst it is a still in play, and I mean 2 ft in play when he starts to call for it. He doesn't do that and VAR wouldn't be having to judge if it was out and we get the goal-kick (assuming they didn't score from the pullback before the ref blows his whistle.)
As for the West Ham example, the ball was 30 feet in the air and curling, there was no way VAR could judge if it went out, the same with our Brentford one which was a guess and shouldn't have been changed with the angles they didn't have. But in this case with the camera level with the line it is a simple and valid call to say it didn't go out so penalty.
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Possible penalty takers for us? Luiz, Abraham, Tielemans, Rogers, McGinn, Cash?
I would be surprised to score more than 2 from that list. Genuinely, even with Martinez in goal, there is zero chance we are winning a penalty shoot out.
Agreed. If it goes to pens I'll be cancelling my Istanbul flight before the first one is taken.
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The reality is that it was a fairly even game with few clear chances. If it was 0-0, most fans would be satisfied with the result and a professional away performance.
Other than the two close range keeper saves, neither side really troubled the other and but for a preposterous penalty we would be going into the second leg level.
I actually thought that for a European official, the referee uncharacteristically let the game flow and generally had a good game. Unfortunately, this played into Forest's hands as an all action Premier League side, whereas we have a more European style of play dependent upon control.
We moan about the mentality of a team which fails when it matters; FA Cup Semi, Conference Semi, Utd last season but I feel aghast at the mentality of our fans. After each teams previous results prior to this match, the negativity from fans was atrocious and must surely be transmitted to players. We need to up our game and actually support the team for the second leg if we are to turn things around.
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
Very rare the same refs get the same teams the following week. It will be a limited selection though due to the supposed top ones being saved for Semi and Finals. Plus point is it is two English teams who are involved so all the rest of Europe is available. So I expect the next officialting team will be Greek...
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Thought it was a pretty even game. Absolutely amazing that Anderson didnt get at least a booking, for the ankle breaker and then cynical pullback.
Did feel like the ref was a homer.
Penalty was daft and we'd looked really comfortable in the 2nd half.
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Somone needs to put that wanker Anderson in the stands next week.
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Possible penalty takers for us? Luiz, Abraham, Tielemans, Rogers, McGinn, Cash?
will Tammy even be on pitch , with 2 mins to pens. Not sure why he isnt getting more mins.
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
Very rare the same refs get the same teams the following week. It will be a limited selection though due to the supposed top ones being saved for Semi and Finals. Plus point is it is two English teams who are involved so all the rest of Europe is available. So I expect the next officialting team will be Greek...
It is a semi final
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It isn't a terrible result but it was a concerning performance in context.
Two games without a goal and again minimal chances created.
Being 1-0, Forest will park the bus at VP and we always struggle against that.
Onana injured again, surely out for Spurs at least.
Tielemans poor post injury, McGinn suddenly knackered, Buendia useless, Sancho can't be trusted to start, Bogarde struggling, Bailey finished. Not looking good for the run in unless Rogers turns into Messi.
If we don't beat Spurs there will be a lot of pressure on the second leg and confidence will be low.
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Somone needs to put that wanker Anderson in the stands next week.
Yes indeed. When we’re 4 up. Somebody who won’t be a big miss for the final.
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
Very rare the same refs get the same teams the following week. It will be a limited selection though due to the supposed top ones being saved for Semi and Finals. Plus point is it is two English teams who are involved so all the rest of Europe is available. So I expect the next officialting team will be Greek...
It is a semi final
I was being facetious that the "top" ones who don't make mistakes are normally chosen for semi-finals, including VAR officials.
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
Yep, tells its own story. Still goes out of his way to praise the ref, to say it wasn't his fault, to be a gent about it all, but yeah. Insane that the VAR hasn't sent the ref to the monitor over that.
I think it's the outrage over player safety that's sent him over the edge tbh. Like, reds for hairpulling but not for possible ankle-breakers? It's not right.
I agree that concern for a player's welfare makes an incident like that much more serious than just a bad decision.
Don't agree with the downplaying of hair-pulling. That can cause serious neck injuries, and should be a red card.
Fair enough, though to maintain the comparison - I don't think it's as likely to cause serious injury as going in studs-up on someone's ankle!
I don't think hairpulling has anytihng to do with being dangerous, it's just a shitty thing to do and should be an automatic red every single time, same as spitting, same as intentionally grabbing someone 'down there'.
I played rugby for 22 seasons in all that time I got 1 red card for laying 4-5 punches into a guy who pulled our fly-half back by his hair, broke 2 fingers on the c**t as well. Best thing was his team let me land a couple before stepping in to break it up and they were as angry with him as we were. He got sent off as well, and so did their captain who punched me. Only time I've punched someone since I was about 14 and had no regrets at all, the team even paid my fine.
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Looked at Braga 2 Freiburg 1 result last night and thought Freiburg will get through. They are only one goal behind.
Then it occured to me .............
COYVB
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I honestly think Anderson only stayed on the pitch because of Ollie's honesty in carrying on playing after a truly dangerous tackle. Maybe, we are too honest. If that was a Chelsea or Citeh player, they would still be rolling over this morning. He was completely out of control with studs raised and a straight leg contact on his opponents ankle. That is a straight red card every day of the week.
I completely agree with this. If Ollie stays down, they send on medical, a stretcher and so on, and the play is therefore 'stopped' while VAR conducts the review, I think there is a much higher chance of VAR intervening. The fact he got up and tried to run it off helped VAR decide it wasn't that bad.
The reality is, Anderson is a very lucky boy (and I'm sure he knows it), which is disappointing for us, because he and MGW were the best players on the pitch, I thought.
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Had a nice day in Nottingham yesterday, great city for a few drinks and food. Found the Forest fans generally fair and knowledgable with a few over excited post match.
The match: we played ok and looked very in control until Onana went off, I couldn’t see them scoring and defence/midfield were fine. All our issues are inthe final third though. Rogers and Buendia must be the least press resistant attackers in England. Rogers was no better than Ok last night and seems to be lacking in confidence whereas Buendia threw in one of his all too regular appalling performances. This of course means Watkins gets no service and he rarely appeared out of Milenkovics pocket and when he did the big lad dispossessed him regularly. Our other problem is McGinn. The last three games he’s been a shadow of his former self with little drive or urgency. Is he carrying a knock?
Another key thing last night was Igor Jesus do the best man marking job on Pau Torres. He totally
Nullified Pau’s passing lines.
All in all walking away from the ground I was left frustrated more than annoyed or angry knowing we can play so much better then this. Unai and the players need to find some solutions. This is all very reminiscent of the start of the season. We need a spark.
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I really hope we just go for it next week. They will definitely play a back 5 with 4 across midfield in a low block and hope to hit the back post for that ugly twat up front to head in. I'd consider playing Tammy and Watkins from the start.
Leaving us even lighter in midfield, without Onana too.
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I've slept on it.
It's half-time, and we've had our crap half.
We score early and it's game on!
Let's relegate Paulinha & his mates on Sunday now!
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Not read everything from this morning but a few have mentioned our game plan, I’d agree it was and did play out as we thought or hoped. You can’t legislate for a player, particularly with the experience of Digne who will play for one of the favourites at the World Cup, making an error like that.
Pre game a lot we worried about Woods physicality, he never really had a sniff.
Gibbs White was on red hot form, he was kept relatively quiet. We didn’t show much attacking intent but they were at home and didn’t show a great deal either.
Game was decided by a moment of extremely poor judgement. All still to play for UTV.
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Forgive my ignorance but Is there some fucking ridiculous penalty competition I don't know about??.
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Sorry if this was posted earlier. Rare you hear Unai being so scathing about any officiating but he was livid at VAR for not reviewing the foul on Ollie
https://xcancel.com/footballontnt/status/2049965814975955165?s=46
Yep, tells its own story. Still goes out of his way to praise the ref, to say it wasn't his fault, to be a gent about it all, but yeah. Insane that the VAR hasn't sent the ref to the monitor over that.
I think it's the outrage over player safety that's sent him over the edge tbh. Like, reds for hairpulling but not for possible ankle-breakers? It's not right.
I agree that concern for a player's welfare makes an incident like that much more serious than just a bad decision.
Don't agree with the downplaying of hair-pulling. That can cause serious neck injuries, and should be a red card.
Fair enough, though to maintain the comparison - I don't think it's as likely to cause serious injury as going in studs-up on someone's ankle!
I don't think hairpulling has anytihng to do with being dangerous, it's just a shitty thing to do and should be an automatic red every single time, same as spitting, same as intentionally grabbing someone 'down there'.
I played rugby for 22 seasons in all that time I got 1 red card for laying 4-5 punches into a guy who pulled our fly-half back by his hair, broke 2 fingers on the c**t as well. Best thing was his team let me land a couple before stepping in to break it up and they were as angry with him as we were. He got sent off as well, and so did their captain who punched me. Only time I've punched someone since I was about 14 and had no regrets at all, the team even paid my fine.
like.
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Forgive my ignorance but Is there some fucking ridiculous penalty competition I don't know about??.
Next Thursday 22.30 .
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Forgive my ignorance but Is there some fucking ridiculous penalty competition I don't know about??.
Next Thursday 22.30 .
😂
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Forgive my ignorance but Is there some fucking ridiculous penalty competition I don't know about??.
Next Thursday 22.30 .
Got an address for that?
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
VAR intervenes because of a potential penalty due to Digne deciding to call for "our ball" with his hand over his head whilst it is a still in play, and I mean 2 ft in play when he starts to call for it. He doesn't do that and VAR wouldn't be having to judge if it was out and we get the goal-kick (assuming they didn't score from the pullback before the ref blows his whistle.)
As for the West Ham example, the ball was 30 feet in the air and curling, there was no way VAR could judge if it went out, the same with our Brentford one which was a guess and shouldn't have been changed with the angles they didn't have. But in this case with the camera level with the line it is a simple and valid call to say it didn't go out so penalty.
Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
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It's very easy to be negative about the performance and our chances but I would have taken a draw before the game. I also feared the worst at 0-1 with 20 to go and was happy to come away 0-1.
I genuinely think Forest have made an error. They settled for 1-0 and we were there for the taking. Villa are a different team at home
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
VAR intervenes because of a potential penalty due to Digne deciding to call for "our ball" with his hand over his head whilst it is a still in play, and I mean 2 ft in play when he starts to call for it. He doesn't do that and VAR wouldn't be having to judge if it was out and we get the goal-kick (assuming they didn't score from the pullback before the ref blows his whistle.)
As for the West Ham example, the ball was 30 feet in the air and curling, there was no way VAR could judge if it went out, the same with our Brentford one which was a guess and shouldn't have been changed with the angles they didn't have. But in this case with the camera level with the line it is a simple and valid call to say it didn't go out so penalty.
Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
The Rogers goal couldn't be given because the whistle had blown and the ball was officially dead before it rolled over the line.
The referee hadn't blown a whistle last night. He'd need very quick reactions to have done so
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4 semi-finals under Emery.
4 defeats.
Mmmm
Still angry about last night's result. The performance wasn't that bad.
We looked good with Onana on the pitch, but VAR (and the lack of it cost us).
Anderson should have at least had a yellow for his foul on Ollie. With a yellow he might either have been hooked, or becone less effective to avoid the chance of getting a wnd yellow.
Fair enough with the pen, but Watkins should have tucked that chance away in the 2nd half.
My fear for next week is that Forest will just park the bus and try and beat us on the break.
Abraham is good in the air - play him alongside Watkins and get plenty of crosses into their 6yd area?
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Is it a different ref next week or is it bloody Robino Hoodo again?
Very rare the same refs get the same teams the following week. It will be a limited selection though due to the supposed top ones being saved for Semi and Finals. Plus point is it is two English teams who are involved so all the rest of Europe is available. So I expect the next officialting team will be Greek...
It is a semi final
I was being facetious that the "top" ones who don't make mistakes are normally chosen for semi-finals, including VAR officials.
Ah ok so you rate greek referees then
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There is no injustice with the penalty. That one is all on Digne.
There is also no comparison with the United goal that wasn’t.
I hate VAR and I’d ditch it tomorrow, but this is what it is there for and they made the right call. As for the Anderson tackle, that’s a different story.
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Forest have a better away record than home, so im not sure they will park the bus, I think they might try get in a killer goal. We win next Thursday though.
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Abraham is good in the air - play him alongside Watkins and get plenty of crosses into their 6yd area?
There is literally zero chance of that. Emery isn't going to turn into MON overnight.
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Tight game that turned on two VAR decisions. 1 given, 1 not. Think we were comfortable throughout, so disappointing to have lost, but nothing to be too worried by.
Villa Park under the lights, we'll win.
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Every single Villa fan heading to the game next Thursday needs to bring their PSG and Bayern battle fever with them, then we'll see what can be achieved.
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There is no injustice with the penalty. That one is all on Digne.
There is also no comparison with the United goal that wasn’t.
I hate VAR and I’d ditch it tomorrow, but this is what it is there for and they made the right call. As for the Anderson tackle, that’s a different story.
Tight game swung on 2 x VAR decisions? One correct and one incorrect.
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We're going to need to beat Forest & the officials next week. They are not going to give us anything.
If there's a corrupt owner in football, I know who I'd put my money on.
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I looked at the stills of pen - none of them show that the ball at the point of contact - and in the ones I have seen - which must be either slightly before or after contact it is very close.
It was "probably" in (just like the bailey one was probably out) - but I dont see how VAR can make those decisions to override the on pitch call. It is one subjective call against another and no way of proving which is right as the technology isnt in place.
Whereas Anderson went over the ball studs up foot of the ground - objectively thats a red card - that is easily missed by the referee because of the speed it happened.
I dont understand how one falls into VAR remit, but the other didnt reach the threshold to overturn.
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Stupid pen. Played ok. The gulf from Onana and Kamara to Bogarde has to be addressed in the summer.
Anderson was a red card all day, terrible decision, yet again, against Villa.
I do wonder if their players and fans celebrations are going to be all the motivation needed. Anderson giving the big un to nutmeghing Rogers on Instagram, the Oles at 1-0 up, their fans all think they've done it. Huge material for Emery to get them really fired up.
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Stupid pen. Played ok. The gulf from Onana and Kamara to Bogarde has to be addressed in the summer.
Anderson was a red card all day, terrible decision, yet again, against Villa.
I do wonder if their players and fans celebrations are going to be all the motivation needed. Anderson giving the big un to nutmeghing Rogers on Instagram, the Oles at 1-0 up, their fans all think they've done it. Huge material for Emery to get them really fired up.
You would hope so - it is odd to do the fireworks at what is essentially half time.
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Turn it the other way, I would've left Villa Park last night glad of the advantage but very nervous about the second leg.
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I do wonder if their players and fans celebrations are going to be all the motivation needed. Anderson giving the big un to nutmeghing Rogers on Instagram, the Oles at 1-0 up, their fans all think they've done it. Huge material for Emery to get them really fired up.
I was thinking the same thing. We've all said that Emery has never been as angry as he was last night talking about VAR, I would like to think he channels that into the pre-match build-up next week.
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I do wonder if their players and fans celebrations are going to be all the motivation needed. Anderson giving the big un to nutmeghing Rogers on Instagram, the Oles at 1-0 up, their fans all think they've done it. Huge material for Emery to get them really fired up.
I was thinking the same thing. We've all said that Emery has never been as angry as he was last night talking about VAR, I would like to think he channels that into the pre-match build-up next week.
Yeah, it's going to feel very different for them at a baying Villa Park when they concede in the first ten minutes.
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I thought would I rather be playing the second leg at Villa Park 1 nill down
Or playing the second leg at Forest one up
I think on balance I’d take the way it is now
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
VAR intervenes because of a potential penalty due to Digne deciding to call for "our ball" with his hand over his head whilst it is a still in play, and I mean 2 ft in play when he starts to call for it. He doesn't do that and VAR wouldn't be having to judge if it was out and we get the goal-kick (assuming they didn't score from the pullback before the ref blows his whistle.)
As for the West Ham example, the ball was 30 feet in the air and curling, there was no way VAR could judge if it went out, the same with our Brentford one which was a guess and shouldn't have been changed with the angles they didn't have. But in this case with the camera level with the line it is a simple and valid call to say it didn't go out so penalty.
Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
The Rogers goal couldn't be given because the whistle had blown and the ball was officially dead before it rolled over the line.
The referee hadn't blown a whistle last night. He'd need very quick reactions to have done so
Hed clearly given a goal kick last night though, so the ball was dead at that point?
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Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
The difference is when the ref blew his whistle. Pretty simple concept really. The ball might have appeared to go out of play but the ref can only make the onfield decision it went out AFTER the handball happened. If he had blown and made his GK decision and THEN Digne had caught it, bounced it around the area and then volleyball served it into the goal, there would be nothing VAR could have done because it all happened AFTER the whistle.
VAR couldn't get involved with Rogers goal because the ref stopped play before we put the ball into the net. Now if the GK had fouled Rogers after Rogers had gone around him and before the ref had blown the whistle, then VAR could have looked at that as it was within their remit. If the ref had waited until the goal was scored, then VAR could have looked at that. But play was called dead before the goal and so there was no goal to rule on, hence nothing VAR could check. (And pre-empting people now responding with "Manure had a penalty after the final whistle", that was because the judgement was on play that had happened before the final whilstle was blown. In that case if the penalised foul had occured just after the whistle was blown, then nothing would have been judged on).
VAR's awful decision last night was not calling the ref to review the foul on Watkins, I don't blame the ref for it as most thought it was fine in real time, including our bench and Emery as per their reactions at the time, but that is what VAR is for. The handball was not an awful officating decision but an awful decision by Digne to call for "our ball" with his arm straight up and over his head whilst the ball was still a foot inside the line.
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Hed clearly given a goal kick last night though, so the ball was dead at that point?
There was about 0.3 seconds between the ball going "out" and the ball hitting Digne's hand. He'd have to have physically blown the whistle in that 0.3 seconds for the ball to be dead.
And I think Somniloquism has explained it far better than I could
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
VAR intervenes because of a potential penalty due to Digne deciding to call for "our ball" with his hand over his head whilst it is a still in play, and I mean 2 ft in play when he starts to call for it. He doesn't do that and VAR wouldn't be having to judge if it was out and we get the goal-kick (assuming they didn't score from the pullback before the ref blows his whistle.)
As for the West Ham example, the ball was 30 feet in the air and curling, there was no way VAR could judge if it went out, the same with our Brentford one which was a guess and shouldn't have been changed with the angles they didn't have. But in this case with the camera level with the line it is a simple and valid call to say it didn't go out so penalty.
Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
The Rogers goal couldn't be given because the whistle had blown and the ball was officially dead before it rolled over the line.
The referee hadn't blown a whistle last night. He'd need very quick reactions to have done so
Hed clearly given a goal kick last night though, so the ball was dead at that point?
The ball isn't dead until the ref blows his whistle, and after Hutchinson tried to cross it, he looked to his linesman to see what the decision was, THEN he gave the goal kick. That all took a few seconds. So you play to the whistle. Always. It's almost the first thing you learn playing as a kid (beyond put the ball in the net).
If the ref had blown because the linesman signalled out, but Hutchinson actually kept the ball in, facing away from goal, and then turned and Digne hacked him down in the most obvious penalty ever, it WOULDN'T be a pen because the ball would be dead ONCE the whistle was blown.
Don't think of 'dead' as whether it's crossed the line or not, think of it as only being dead because the ref blows his whistle.
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I looked at the stills of pen - none of them show that the ball at the point of contact - and in the ones I have seen - which must be either slightly before or after contact it is very close.
If you don't trust the stills, just watch the slo-mo on the TNT replay, then tell me between which frames you think the ball moved 4 inches over the line at, then moved 4 inches back the other way so it was still level with the line.
On a PC, @2:53 in, pause the video then press Full Stop key to frame forward and Comma key to frame back.
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It looks like we're all taking it well then.
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Anger is an energy.
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Let the road rise with you.
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Don't want to labour the point, but surely the process you mention in the first paragraph is not right? The initial decision was clearly given as a goal kick and therefore how can VAR overturn that? Think of the Rogers decision at Old Trafford last season - replays clearly showed it wasn't a foul, but we were told the decision couldn't be overturned once it had been made. Struggling to see the difference.
Two semi-finals against two Marinakis teams and some highly questionable officiating in both. Just saying.
The difference is when the ref blew his whistle. Pretty simple concept really. The ball might have appeared to go out of play but the ref can only make the onfield decision it went out AFTER the handball happened. If he had blown and made his GK decision and THEN Digne had caught it, bounced it around the area and then volleyball served it into the goal, there would be nothing VAR could have done because it all happened AFTER the whistle.
VAR couldn't get involved with Rogers goal because the ref stopped play before we put the ball into the net. Now if the GK had fouled Rogers after Rogers had gone around him and before the ref had blown the whistle, then VAR could have looked at that as it was within their remit. If the ref had waited until the goal was scored, then VAR could have looked at that. But play was called dead before the goal and so there was no goal to rule on, hence nothing VAR could check. (And pre-empting people now responding with "Manure had a penalty after the final whistle", that was because the judgement was on play that had happened before the final whilstle was blown. In that case if the penalised foul had occured just after the whistle was blown, then nothing would have been judged on).
VAR's awful decision last night was not calling the ref to review the foul on Watkins, I don't blame the ref for it as most thought it was fine in real time, including our bench and Emery as per their reactions at the time, but that is what VAR is for. The handball was not an awful officating decision but an awful decision by Digne to call for "our ball" with his arm straight up and over his head whilst the ball was still a foot inside the line.
On reflection, accept the point about the Rogers goal not being the same as the ref blew his whistle. It's just the whole process rather than actually being aggrieved at the decision at this point. So anything within a phase of play (or even before that, as shown with our disallowed goal against Brentford) can be checked by VAR even if they cannot make a definitive decision? Just raises the question then though of why just check when there is an incident and not every time?
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(https://i.ibb.co/Y779Mh8Q/Screenshot-20260501-154439-Chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y779Mh8Q)
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I still maintain that whether that was out or not is subjective - and your overriding one subjective decision with another. They cant tell 100% that is wasnt out, so shouldnt override an on pitch offical.
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On reflection, accept the point about the Rogers goal not being the same as the ref blew his whistle. It's just the whole process rather than actually being aggrieved at the decision at this point. So anything within a phase of play (or even before that, as shown with our disallowed goal against Brentford) can be checked by VAR even if they cannot make a definitive decision? Just raises the question then though of why just check when there is an incident and not every time?
Brentford was bad as the camera angles could not show it was out definitely and was a bad call (even if later fan footage showed it to be correct), but pretty much yes that in theory anything between whistle blows can be checked IF it leads up to a VAR remit decision (goal, penalty, sending off). There is mention of a "change of possesion" which I suspect means if the defending team foul the attacker (under non VAR review conditions) but play continues, then they win the ball legitimately and go up the other end and have a VAR remit decision, VAR doesn't take the non-called foul into decision. I suspect the cut-off is arbituary though.
Of course it also depends on "Clear and Obvious error" and what the ref states to VAR at the time. If the ref stated "My lino is calling the ball out, however I also will not be calling a penalty as although it struck his hand, it was natually up to call for ownership of possesion and hence not deliberate block", then VAR probably would not have gotten involved.
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Gabby saying it’s because the VAR was Portuguese and therefore in cahoots with Pereira. Haha
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Lots of negativity on social media. I think it’s because a lot of people have seen us bottle these occasions so many times there’s an expectation we’re already out. And you can understand why. One or two posts about the extent of forest fans and players celebrations last night though. That should act as extra motivation.
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Gabby saying it’s because the VAR was Portuguese and therefore in cahoots with Pereira. Haha
Gabby must post on here then as someone mentioned that in Pre-match.
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Lots of negativity on social media. I think it’s because a lot of people have seen us bottle these occasions so many times there’s an expectation we’re already out. And you can understand why. One or two posts about the extent of forest fans and players celebrations last night though. That should act as extra motivation.
I think its more that negativity is the essence of social media.
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On reflection, accept the point about the Rogers goal not being the same as the ref blew his whistle. It's just the whole process rather than actually being aggrieved at the decision at this point. So anything within a phase of play (or even before that, as shown with our disallowed goal against Brentford) can be checked by VAR even if they cannot make a definitive decision? Just raises the question then though of why just check when there is an incident and not every time?
Brentford was bad as the camera angles could not show it was out definitely and was a bad call (even if later fan footage showed it to be correct), but pretty much yes that in theory anything between whistle blows can be checked IF it leads up to a VAR remit decision (goal, penalty, sending off). There is mention of a "change of possesion" which I suspect means if the defending team foul the attacker (under non VAR review conditions) but play continues, then they win the ball legitimately and go up the other end and have a VAR remit decision, VAR doesn't take the non-called foul into decision. I suspect the cut-off is arbituary though.
Of course it also depends on "Clear and Obvious error" and what the ref states to VAR at the time. If the ref stated "My lino is calling the ball out, however I also will not be calling a penalty as although it struck his hand, it was natually up to call for ownership of possesion and hence not deliberate block", then VAR probably would not have gotten involved.
The second paragraph is what happened though. They gave a goal kick and turned down the penalty appeal, only for the VAR official to intervene and overrule on both.
Has it actually ever been stated that VAR can check every detail leading up to an incident and as we saw against Brentford, how far do they go back? Just seems like that leaves a massive grey area where someone sitting in a room somewhere is making decisions without the means to do so definitively.
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Gabby saying it’s because the VAR was Portuguese and therefore in cahoots with Pereira. Haha
Gabby must post on here then as someone mentioned that in Pre-match.
It was me. I'm not Gabby though, the only thing we have in common is that we were once slim but now have baby bellies.
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For me it probably was a penalty but the question is more about what VAR should be doing.
Is 4-5minutes checking if that had crossed the line really acceptable in the same match where someone going over the ball and studs up into a player's ankle got less than 30 seconds of review?
What do we want to use the tech for because right now it's leaning heavily towards pedantic re-refereeing of marginal calls whilst ignoring serious foul play.
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Has anybody been keeping records of the longest VAR decisions taken as they seem to be getting longer by the week?
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For me it probably was a penalty but the question is more about what VAR should be doing.
Is 4-5minutes checking if that had crossed the line really acceptable in the same match where someone going over the ball and studs up into a player's ankle got less than 30 seconds of review?
What do we want to use the tech for because right now it's leaning heavily towards pedantic re-refereeing of marginal calls whilst ignoring serious foul play.
Yes exactly
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For me it probably was a penalty but the question is more about what VAR should be doing.
Is 4-5minutes checking if that had crossed the line really acceptable in the same match where someone going over the ball and studs up into a player's ankle got less than 30 seconds of review?
What do we want to use the tech for because right now it's leaning heavily towards pedantic re-refereeing of marginal calls whilst ignoring serious foul play.
Yep.
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Forest fan here
Good result for us, but it's only half time and we don't have a very good record at Villa Park, so obviously all to play for. Can't help but feel we needed to score a second and take advantage of being at home.
Very surprised that Anderson got away with the red card challenge - 10 years ago, there'd be nothing wrong with that, but by todays standards it's a red and I'm surprised it wasn't given.
A couple of points to clarify; the fireworks at the end of game always happen after a win at night; its something that started in our promotion season and seems to have continued as a tradition. I'm not a massive fan of it, but the majority seem to like it. There's also been a few videos online of Forest fans seemingly extremely confident that the job is done; those on social media just shout the loudest. I can guarantee, 99% of forest fans are very much aware that the tie is still in the balance.
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You sound far too reasonable to be on here. Are you lost?
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You sound far too reasonable to be on here. Are you lost?
Could be that they've lost that lovin' feelin'.
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You seem a sensible chap TLF. Good luck for the rest of the season after Thursday, and hopefully we each help the other side out on Sunday/Monday.
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Cheers TLF, good luck in staying up but obviously not on Thursday
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Hi TLF. Forest. Good club. Hope you have a shit week.
Return leg I'd go (presuming Onana's out for two months again):
Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Torres
Digne
McGinn
Luiz
Sancho
Tielemans
Rogers
Watkins
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
Let's face it when it comes to VAR, they are making it up as they go along.
It changes from game to game, depending on who is involved and what is at stake.
It is still completely subjective. The only difference is it is done from a studio 100 miles away.
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That's the problem, and it sits with the governing bodies. You have one ref "who lets the game flow" and one who "likes a booking". Erm, no. There should be a consistent standard which every single referee works toward. The ref's attitude to how football should be played is a major influence on games. It shouldn't be. So create a standard which is applied consistently by every single ref, and if they think they're above it, sack them off and find someone else. Allowing them to deviate is a major cause of all these shit decisions, because they all have their own ideas about what constitutes a penalty/red card etc. They are referees, not fucking Maradonna. Pull them in line.
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On the penalty, it's the inconsistency that absolutely boils my piss. We seem to be the only team that has had any decisions on the in/out of play thing - the only other case I can remember being remotely similar was the one a few years back where Manure scored at West Ham. There the ball was clearly a couple of metres beyond the touchline in the air before swinging back in, yet everyone was told that VAR couldn't intervene on that one.
Football doesn't have 'hawkeye' technology on the touchlines yet, and my understanding is that in/out is still currently the decision of the on field officials. The linesman clearly indicated for a goal kick as soon as it happened, so I don't know why VAR even intervenes at that stage.
If VAR is going to overrule officials on this, then it also needs to start being used for goal kicks and corners. Or just f*ck the whole thing off and make the game much more enjoyable.
Let's face it when it comes to VAR, they are making it up as they go along.
It changes from game to game, depending on who is involved and what is at stake.
It is still completely subjective. The only difference is it is done from a studio 100 miles away.
I thought it was done in the back of a van??. seriously.
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Forest fan here
Good result for us, but it's only half time and we don't have a very good record at Villa Park, so obviously all to play for. Can't help but feel we needed to score a second and take advantage of being at home.
Very surprised that Anderson got away with the red card challenge - 10 years ago, there'd be nothing wrong with that, but by todays standards it's a red and I'm surprised it wasn't given.
A couple of points to clarify; the fireworks at the end of game always happen after a win at night; its something that started in our promotion season and seems to have continued as a tradition. I'm not a massive fan of it, but the majority seem to like it. There's also been a few videos online of Forest fans seemingly extremely confident that the job is done; those on social media just shout the loudest. I can guarantee, 99% of forest fans are very much aware that the tie is still in the balance.
Great post. All the best for the rest of the season...within reason of course!!
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You seem a sensible chap TLF. Good luck for the rest of the season after Thursday, and hopefully we each help the other side out on Sunday/Monday.
Very much keeping an eye on this game, certainly feel it will be difficult for Spurs to get anything from it. Out of interest, how are you feeling about the second leg? I think you'll start off very strong and really go for it. I give us a chance if we can keep it tight in the first 20 mins, possibly create a bit of nervousness in the crowd. Villa Park hasn't been a good place for us since our PL return, but we're in a good bit of form atm, so it's a difficult one to call.
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For me it probably was a penalty but the question is more about what VAR should be doing.
Is 4-5minutes checking if that had crossed the line really acceptable in the same match where someone going over the ball and studs up into a player's ankle got less than 30 seconds of review?
What do we want to use the tech for because right now it's leaning heavily towards pedantic re-refereeing of marginal calls whilst ignoring serious foul play.
The minutes was for both decisions. A check if it went out, a check on whether it was a deliberate handball. Once both was confirmed then they needed the ref to decided for himself which added more time on.
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Hi TLF. Forest. Good club. Hope you have a shit week.
Return leg I'd go (presuming Onana's out for two months again):
Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Torres
Digne
McGinn
Luiz
Sancho
Tielemans
Rogers
Watkins
Digne? Are you mad, sir?
The rest, yes.
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You seem a sensible chap TLF. Good luck for the rest of the season after Thursday, and hopefully we each help the other side out on Sunday/Monday.
Very much keeping an eye on this game, certainly feel it will be difficult for Spurs to get anything from it. Out of interest, how are you feeling about the second leg? I think you'll start off very strong and really go for it. I give us a chance if we can keep it tight in the first 20 mins, possibly create a bit of nervousness in the crowd. Villa Park hasn't been a good place for us since our PL return, but we're in a good bit of form atm, so it's a difficult one to call.
The first goal will be crucial. I do not think we will throw the kitchen sink at the game.
It will be about exerting control and expecting a breakthrough before half time or early in the second half.
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For me it probably was a penalty but the question is more about what VAR should be doing.
Is 4-5minutes checking if that had crossed the line really acceptable in the same match where someone going over the ball and studs up into a player's ankle got less than 30 seconds of review?
What do we want to use the tech for because right now it's leaning heavily towards pedantic re-refereeing of marginal calls whilst ignoring serious foul play.
The minutes was for both decisions. A check if it went out, a check on whether it was a deliberate handball. Once both was confirmed then they needed the ref to decided for himself which added more time on.
Great, doesn't really change the fact that a decision on a marginal call if a ball was out of play or not was given much more scrutiny that a potential leg-breaking challenge.
Again this is about priorities, was VAR introduced to waste huge amounts of time over-ruling subjective decisions on things like whether the ball is out of play or not or was it to protect players and ensure things the ref didn't see clearly but should be addressed. The latter effectively replaces the old system where games could be reviewed and players referred to a citing officer and was an obvious improvement.
I think the main reason VAR is so hated right now is that it's focused on the former which was never the big problem that needed to be addressed and isn't particularly suited to a re-referee it but from the car park treatment when it could be much better handled by technology. Strip it right back and only use it for offsides/out of play when it's blatant and instead focus on it being a tool for the ref to see things from another angle, get rid of the bullshit of red or nothing and stop treating the penalty area as sacred (so things inside can be reviewed at a much lower threshold). The Eze one from Weds is a good example, despite me agreeing with the final decision (because he was absolutely playing for the foul) I'd much prefer if that wasn't reviewed but instead reviews were consistent because there's no chance that gets checked anywhere else on the pitch.
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F me I am still pissed off
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You seem a sensible chap TLF. Good luck for the rest of the season after Thursday, and hopefully we each help the other side out on Sunday/Monday.
Very much keeping an eye on this game, certainly feel it will be difficult for Spurs to get anything from it. Out of interest, how are you feeling about the second leg? I think you'll start off very strong and really go for it. I give us a chance if we can keep it tight in the first 20 mins, possibly create a bit of nervousness in the crowd. Villa Park hasn't been a good place for us since our PL return, but we're in a good bit of form atm, so it's a difficult one to call.
Genuinely no idea. We have to start well. Get an early goal and we are favourites but the longer it goes 0-0, or if Forest get a goal, we would be under massive pressure. It's about 50/50, IMO.
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I agree with paul_e
In historical terms - were ignoring the hand of god, but spending 5 minutes working out if Geoff Hurst's goal was over the line
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I agree with paul_e
In historical terms - were ignoring the hand of god, but spending 5 minutes working out if Geoff Hurst's goal was over the line
It wasn't.
You're welcome.
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Correct, CD. I was watching it in Ireland, and it definitely brushed off Maradona's hair rather than hitting his hand.
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The handball was a definitive decision though, the sort of thing that VAR can do in 99% of cases, even if it miniscule measurements. The tackle is subjective and as I mentioned in the Tom debate, what the ref tells VAR about decisions is taken into account with any check they make. I think most thought the tackle on Watkins was "ok" in real time as shown by the lack of reactions from our players and bench. However if the ref stated "I saw the challenge and Anderson won the ball but caught Watkins on the follow through, but nothing to penalise", they might have took that as not enough of a clear and obvious error to send him to the monitor. I definitely don't agree with that and I'm as adamant that it was a red as any on here, and there is no way any ref who saw that again doesn't give it or realise they made a clear error in the first case. It is why audio of VAR for incidents like that should be released out as a matter of transparency.
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I dont understand how the handball can be objective - they dont have the tech.
They looked at it and made a judgement call - which was probably correct - but I dont see that as there remit
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I've missed the last few pages. Could anyone summarise*?
*If anyone tries I'll kill them cold dead and bloody with the full force of my hands and equipment.
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Correct, CD. I was watching it in Ireland, and it definitely brushed off Maradona's hair rather than hitting his hand.
Peter Shilton gave an after dinner speech at a work do I went to probably about 15 years ago. He was telling the story that after the game - he ended up next to Maradona (cant remember exactly why/how) - Shilton asked him if he handled it and Maradona saod he didnt.
Shilton said if he had seen a replay before that encounter - he would of punched him. Cue some one to shout "you could have just punched the f***ing ball" which got the biggest laugh of the evening
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I dont understand how the handball can be objective - they dont have the tech.
They looked at it and made a judgement call - which was probably correct - but I dont see that as there remit
The ball not crossing the line was the definitive in this case, the ref then made the decision on the handball after being shown it on the monitor to confirm it was handball in his opinion.
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Correct, CD. I was watching it in Ireland, and it definitely brushed off Maradona's hair rather than hitting his hand.
Peter Shilton gave an after dinner speech at a work do I went to probably about 15 years ago. He was telling the story that after the game - he ended up next to Maradona (cant remember exactly why/how) - Shilton asked him if he handled it and Maradona saod he didnt.
Shilton said if he had seen a replay before that encounter - he would of punched him. Cue some one to shout "you could have just punched the f***ing ball" which got the biggest laugh of the evening
I like that.
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I dont understand how the handball can be objective - they dont have the tech.
They looked at it and made a judgement call - which was probably correct - but I dont see that as there remit
The ball not crossing the line was the definitive in this case, the ref then made the decision on the handball after being shown it on the monitor to confirm it was handball in his opinion.
I appericate that was probably true - but I dont see how it can be definitive as there isnt the view or tech to confirm it. I spent 10 mins earlier looking at all the photos etc but ultimately none of them (in my view) show that the linesman (who saw it in real life - not frame by frame) was wrong.
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Quite correct as well, for all the moaning about the handball, Shilton had 7 inches on Maradona so if he had actually jumped there is no way the ball was going past him even with the hand help.
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I appericate that was probably true - but I dont see how it can be definitive as there isnt the view or tech to confirm it. I spent 10 mins earlier looking at all the photos etc but ultimately none of them (in my view) show that the linesman (who saw it in real life - not frame by frame) was wrong.
You must be trolling now or you need to visit here. (https://www.specsavers.co.uk/stores/birmingham)
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I dont understand how the handball can be objective - they dont have the tech.
They looked at it and made a judgement call - which was probably correct - but I dont see that as there remit
The ball not crossing the line was the definitive in this case, the ref then made the decision on the handball after being shown it on the monitor to confirm it was handball in his opinion.
I appericate that was probably true - but I dont see how it can be definitive as there isnt the view or tech to confirm it. I spent 10 mins earlier looking at all the photos etc but ultimately none of them (in my view) show that the linesman (who saw it in real life - not frame by frame) was wrong.
You must be trolling now or you need to visit here. (https://www.specsavers.co.uk/stores/birmingham)
I dont see how var can judge it definitivity- and if they can - what a time to be alive.
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Forest fan here
Good result for us, but it's only half time and we don't have a very good record at Villa Park, so obviously all to play for. Can't help but feel we needed to score a second and take advantage of being at home.
Very surprised that Anderson got away with the red card challenge - 10 years ago, there'd be nothing wrong with that, but by todays standards it's a red and I'm surprised it wasn't given.
A couple of points to clarify; the fireworks at the end of game always happen after a win at night; its something that started in our promotion season and seems to have continued as a tradition. I'm not a massive fan of it, but the majority seem to like it. There's also been a few videos online of Forest fans seemingly extremely confident that the job is done; those on social media just shout the loudest. I can guarantee, 99% of forest fans are very much aware that the tie is still in the balance.
Thanks mate, good post. I've no problem with Forest.
I hope we smash you in the second leg but otherwise, good luck to you.
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Correct, CD. I was watching it in Ireland, and it definitely brushed off Maradona's hair rather than hitting his hand.
Peter Shilton gave an after dinner speech at a work do I went to probably about 15 years ago. He was telling the story that after the game - he ended up next to Maradona (cant remember exactly why/how) - Shilton asked him if he handled it and Maradona saod he didnt.
Shilton said if he had seen a replay before that encounter - he would of punched him. Cue some one to shout "you could have just punched the f***ing ball" which got the biggest laugh of the evening
Very good.