Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: CT Villan on November 09, 2024, 10:06:28 PM
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Not good enough. Once again sub-par performances throughout the team. I didn't agree with the subs either - at the very least Rogers should have been hooked at HT. The ref was a biased twat too, though he didn't lose us the game.
Not sure who you had commentating, but over here it was Peter Drury who is beyond awful - he was calling Kamara Traore and gave us the immortal line, "Anfield sounds as wonderful as nature intended", wtf does that even mean ? His words paint such evocative pictures, kinda like a Picasso.
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A decent enough performance but how many defensive mistakes can a team make? It’s getting beyond a joke so I’ve got an idea.
Play your best central defender in central defence. It’s so frustrating at the moment but we’ll improve. I don’t think enough to finish in a CL place but enough for a European place.
When your goal shy up front and a circus act at the back you’ve got issues.
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Thought the game plan worked well. Liverpool created very little. We did well at turning the ball over and last season we would have punished Liverpool. We have lost our cutting edge over the last few weeks. Watkins, Rogers and Bailey below par and thus we are missing those chances. That Rogers miss early in the second half was so crucial. Two shit goals on the break meant it was one of those nights.
How many times has this been the case? Too many, it’s now one of those months.
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We are a mid-table side now for sure
7th/8th is not mid table.
Bit of arrogance creeping into this site and elsewhere if we're just writing off seasons now when we drop out of top 4.
We will win games playing like this in the next month so have some faith. The less two years have surely earnt that?
If Spurs and Newcastle win their game in hand tomorrow we’ll he 10th. It’s not remotely good enough, we’ve been dire for weeks.
We weren't dire tonight.
Just not good enough when it really mattered.
That's true but we were looking likely to equalise I thought until Carlos intervened. Not decisive in either box tonight but we matched the best team in the division for most of the game. Daft defensive errors and big misses at other end. We looked vulnerable on the counter all night, poor organisation at the set pieces.
Just watching the second...what the hell was Konsa at. Running away from Salah
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Improved performance but same story poor defensive mistakes and not finishing key opportunities that we are later punished for.
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This is now officially a crisis.
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This is now officially a crisis.
It's not great, but it's not a crisis.
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* Missed chances
* Can’t defend
* Gift goals in new ways
* Bailey poor
* Nothing from the officials at Anfield
* Ramsey off injured
* Customary Carlos f*ck up
Story checks out
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
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No it’s not.
We played much much better tonight. We’re still conceding daft goals and not being clinical enough, but it was a much better level of play. Pau, JJ before he got injured, and Digne were all excellent tonight.
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Improved performance but same story missed opportunities and poor defensive mistakes cost us again.
One win in 7 is not good and that palace game now is huge.
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Better performance though. Defence needs sorting, doesn’t look like we’ll be troubling CL again next season though
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* Missed chances
* Can’t defend
* Gift goals in new ways
* Bailey poor
* Nothing from the officials at Anfield
* Ramsey off injured
* Customary Carlos f*ck up
Story checks out
Story might, but the level of performance was completely different.
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****** referee.
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No where near a crisis, Unai will get us back on track.
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* Missed chances
* Can’t defend
* Gift goals in new ways
* Bailey poor
* Nothing from the officials at Anfield
* Ramsey off injured
* Customary Carlos f*ck up
Story checks out
Story might, but the level of performance was completely different.
And yet…outcome the same.
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Don't understand how pau doesnt get a penalty foe a shirt tug then he books kamara for exactly the same thing.
Its pathetic
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage. Slow, ponderous, kept giving the ball away, terrible set pieces, players then out of position and we make the same mistakes over and over and over again. And to top it off we threw away our only realistic chance at a trophy this season. Watkins, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene and McGinn completely ineffective. The one time we have momentum in the first half we drop off ten yards and let them have the ball uncontested. The honeymoon period is well and truly over.
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I'd still rather be where we are than Wolves. Not a crisis, but a wobble and I am looking forward to seeing how Unai manages it.
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We are too wasteful.
Too many missed chances which are costing us.
Watkins has his hot spots and the “not so hot” spots. He’s been subdued all season, despite scoring a few goals, he’s missing many many more than he should be.
Rogers is brilliant - but finishing isn’t his strength at the moment.
Bailey is struggling.
Our entire attack is ineffective at the moment. It’s costing us. We equalise today and we win. But we offer as much going forward as a fart against thunder presently.
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Not a bad performance but similar recent frailties of poor finishing and individual errors again leading to goals against us.
Emery needs to have a proper rethink over the next 2 weeks and hopefully we can see the benefits against Palace next time out. Losing that doesn't bear thinking about...
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Much better performance and will prove to be the end of the bad form blip. Still think some our tackling is half hearted.
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I thought we'd get trounced tonight so the performance pleased me. We were more than competitive and were still pushing Liverpool close in the last ten minutes.
This is more like the standard we had for 3/4 of last season so we need to replicate it after the break and that will win us games and get us back in the top part of the league.
Our worst player tonight was funnily enough Rogers who barely got a pass right once over the halfway line. Jaden's cameo wasn't great either. Some good performances though, Onana had a good game breaking up play.
We need to build on this and to me that means starting Duran and Maatsen in our next match.
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Don’t know why we didn’t play our best side v palace in the cup. Surely it was worth prioritizing?
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Our worst player tonight was funnily enough Rogers who barely got a pass right once over the halfway line.
Not sure it warrants the "funnily enough", that's been the case for the last four matches.
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Well if we don't go all in for the FA cup I'll be wracked off
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I thought we played well and showed signs of our form about a year ago.
Not the disaster many of us feared.
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Our worst player tonight was funnily enough Rogers who barely got a pass right once over the halfway line.
Not sure it warrants the "funnily enough", that's been the case for the last four matches.
No i think bailey gets that award
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Blimey some people really throw the towel in quick. I’ve been annoyed at recent displays, but that performance was miles better than we’ve seen in the last week. Daft goals to concede yes, but the general level was good. Season over? Fucking hell, get a grip.
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Don’t know why we didn’t play our best side v palace in the cup. Surely it was worth prioritizing?
Not playing our strongest team against Bruges was the one that still rankles. What a wasted opportunity..
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Season definitely not over. 100% trust Emery to turn this around.
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Better but not good enough but enough to make me optimistic.
However, it cannot be overlooked that ad either of the 2 shirt pulls had been given things could've been different. Appalling inconsistency and blatant bias.
And following the Noel Gallagher farce earlier this week, TNT have to declare their intentions and not give the impression of being independent and unbiased.
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Much of what has already been said but too many players want to dwell on the ball for a few seconds when the opposition are swarming around and how many 50/50s do we win?
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No where near a crisis, Unai will get us back on track.
Of course he will. I understand the reactions because it’s so frustrating, especially the defence but he’s still a top coach.
Once we click aain, and we will well be ok.
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This is now officially a crisis.
Silly sausage
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I'm trying to decide if Liverpool, like Arsenal, aren't all that much, or tonight they didn't need to be?
Two things are for sure, the defence needs tightening - what the hell was Konsa thinking for the first goal, it's Nunez and he's shite so better to cover the cut back? He may has well have rolled out the red carpet. Shocking defending.
I'm bored of talking about Watkins and Bailey. It's like playing with 9 men. Wasters!
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Ever since the Champions League’s utterly obscene prices were announced, there’s been a feel bad factor running through everything for me and it’s gone to ratshit on the pitch also, the Bayern result notwithstanding.
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This is now officially a crisis.
How can it be 'officially' a crisis?
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Blimey some people really throw the towel in quick. I’ve been annoyed at recent displays, but that performance was miles better than we’ve seen in the last week. Daft goals to concede yes, but the general level was good. Season over? Fucking hell, get a grip.
It was a better performance against a team that is challenging for the title, two points off third and apparently it's a disaster. Signs of improvement tonight, losing JJ early didn't help as I thought he was our best player up to then.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage.
FFS, man. We're a point off third, albeit with unequal games played, and in the top 8 of the Champions League.
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Much better than last three games, we moved the ball much better. However, presently, we fluff our lines in the big moments and Liverpool didn't. The Rogers miss at the start of 2nd half cost us dearly.
I reckon we are looking at 6th-10th this year but as we were dead and buried less than a decade ago, I'd rather be cheesed off we lost 2-0 at Anfield than at QPR...
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage.
FFS, man. We're a point off third, albeit with unequal games played, and in the top 8 of the Champions League.
We have a poorer squad than last season, playing worse football and have no money to spend.
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A “crisis” is a ludicrous overreaction. We lost, away, to the best side in the league right now. We’re clearly far from our best, but the performance was so much better than it had been of late.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage. Slow, ponderous, kept giving the ball away, terrible set pieces, players then out of position and we make the same mistakes over and over and over again. And to top it off we threw away our only realistic chance at a trophy this season. Watkins, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene and McGinn completely ineffective. The one time we have momentum in the first half we drop off ten yards and let them have the ball uncontested. The honeymoon period is well and truly over.
What a ridiculous comment
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If we lose to palace i would say its close tk a crisis though
1 win in 8 would be relegation form (not suggesting we will go down at all btw just thats it not good enough)
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First thing, Liverpool are very very good, albeit in quite an anaesthetic way. Every time you think you see a way out you're shut down and the slow squeeze starts again. Like a footballing anaconda.
So no shame, no disgrace, and on another day we get one of those penalties (though we don't, of course, as This Is, after all, Anfield) and at that point who knows. But we have to deal with a few facts:
1) Bailey is, currently, bad;
2) McGinn too is, currently, not good;
3) we look so flat in this system and reliant on Rogers to do more than he's consistently capable of doing in order to break the lines;
4) we look so flimsy on defensive transitions and easily crowded out on attacking ones;
5) we used to be good at chipping over the press and now we're not.
There are other problems - Philogene should maybe be a right back, Carlos continues to lead our inventive mistakes division, Watkins looks like a plank of wood occasionally being thrown at a defender - but those five are the major ones.
No panic, but much to sort out.
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Not one to comment but people claiming the season is over at the start of November need to get a grip. We played much better tonight. The ref was poor but to be expected at Anfield. We'll sort it out and if I'm honest top 7 with the results we've had in Europe would be a great season in my eyes
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That ref just looks utterly gormless. Nothing else to say really.
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Thought in the main we played well. Strong shape to us and caused Liverpool lots of problems. Terrible organisation defending counters gave Nunez three great chances and he took one. Their crowd got very nervy until Carlos moment of madness.
Martinez 5 - maybe I'm being harsh but I thought he sat down too easily for the first goal definitely. Lucky to get away with one cross he got nowhere near.
Konsa 4 - awful on the ball at RB as per usual, one great saving tackle but no idea what he was doing running away from Salah for the second. Lost Nunez for that header
Carlos 6 - spoiled an otherwise very good display with that stupid header that sent Salah away
Torres 8 - very good in and out of possession, justified his selection
Digne 6 - starting position was terrible for first goal, solid that aside
Onana 8 - dominated midfield I thought. Ran and turned with the ball very well. Best midfielder on pitch
Tielemans 6 - decent first half until yellow checked him. Not as involved after half time
Bailey 5 - decent first half but awful in second until his inevitable replacement
Ramsey 7 - our best player in first half until limping off again, real problem now
Rogers 5 - awful first half and lucky not to be hooked at half time. Missed the best chance we had, too sloppy in possession
Watkins 5 - definitely worked a good bit harder but not much of a threat either
McGinn 7 - much better, some good deliveries, strong on the turn and a few wild tackles
Maatsen 8 - looked top quality in all honesty when he came on
Duran 6 - couldn't get that involved but looked more of a threat than Watkins
Kamara 6 - tidy enough in possession
Philogene 3 - really doesn't look near PL level, our right side in second half was poor
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Our worst player tonight was funnily enough Rogers who barely got a pass right once over the halfway line.
Not sure it warrants the "funnily enough", that's been the case for the last four matches.
No i think bailey gets that award
Definitely Rogers. He’s been awful. I actually think the last two matches have started to scope some small green shoots for Bailey. Still miles off last year but a little better.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage. Slow, ponderous, kept giving the ball away, terrible set pieces, players then out of position and we make the same mistakes over and over and over again. And to top it off we threw away our only realistic chance at a trophy this season. Watkins, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene and McGinn completely ineffective. The one time we have momentum in the first half we drop off ten yards and let them have the ball uncontested. The honeymoon period is well and truly over.
What a ridiculous comment
Other than saying our season’s finished, which was said out of frustration, which part of what I said is wrong?
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I reckon we are looking at 6th-10th this year but as we were dead and buried less than a decade ago, I'd rather be cheesed off we lost 2-0 at Anfield than at QPR...
No offence, Phil but we either shit or get off the pan. Comparing us to 10 years ago, we've moved on or at least I'd hoped we have. Tonight we were let down by some poor defending and some pub league attackers. If floating around the top 4 is not comfortable for some players we need to replace them, even if it's just on loan.
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First thing, Liverpool are very very good, albeit in quite an anaesthetic way. Every time you think you see a way out you're shut down and the slow squeeze starts again. Like a footballing anaconda.
So no shame, no disgrace, and on another day we get one of those penalties (though we don't, of course, as This Is, after all, Anfield) and at that point who knows. But we have to deal with a few facts:
1) Bailey is, currently, bad;
2) McGinn too is, currently, not good;
3) we look so flat in this system and reliant on Rogers to do more than he's consistently capable of doing in order to break the lines;
4) we look so flimsy on defensive transitions and easily crowded out on attacking ones;
5) we used to be good at chipping over the press and now we're not.
There are other problems - Philogene should maybe be a right back, Carlos continues to lead our inventive mistakes division, Watkins looks like a plank of wood occasionally being thrown at a defender - but those five are the major ones.
No panic, but much to sort out.
Philogene at right back is a interesting idea Monty. Quite clearly very bad at right side attack at this level so far
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
Well it’s not great is it?
It’s not just the defeats it’s the nature of the defeats.
We have so many players out of form and likely to fuck up at critical moments.
Watkins useless and in a strop, Roger’s looks like he has seen a ghost, Carlos a fuck up waiting to happen. Bailey , Mcginn so badly off form.We can’t even get a defensive set up from attacking corners.
All this happening at the same time.
Right , it’s not a crisis, so what is it exactly?
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So predictable, totally distraught tonight.
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
Well it’s not great is it?
It’s not just the defeats it’s the nature of the defeats.
We have so many players out of form and likely to fuck up at critical moments.
Watkins useless and in a strop, Roger’s looks like he has seen a ghost, Carlos a fuck up waiting to happen. Bailey , Mcginn so badly off form.We can’t even get a defensive set up from attacking corners.
All this happening at the same time.
Right , it’s not a crisis, so what is it exactly?
add on top of that, we've thrown 2 games to achieve grand total of fuck all point.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage. Slow, ponderous, kept giving the ball away, terrible set pieces, players then out of position and we make the same mistakes over and over and over again. And to top it off we threw away our only realistic chance at a trophy this season. Watkins, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene and McGinn completely ineffective. The one time we have momentum in the first half we drop off ten yards and let them have the ball uncontested. The honeymoon period is well and truly over.
What a ridiculous comment
Other than saying our season’s finished, which was said out of frustration, which part of what I said is wrong?
The whole comment was out of frustration though. It’s not so long ago we beat Bayern. A degree of perspective is needed, that’s all. We were also better today. And I think the honeymoon period ended 18m ago tbh. Now we’re just a good team playing poorly atm.
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Liverpool boss Arne Slot, speaking to TNT Sport: "It wasn't easy like most of our games have been now. Aston Villa were maybe not as aggressive as we thought they would be. We were patient. One thing they are very good at is set-pieces. In general we had control over the game and scored from two counter-attacks which is maybe not what we would expect."
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Crisis :-)
Thought we were ok…we’ve been below par since Bournemouth…with one appalling 45 mins thrown in at Spurs but no crisis.
Teilemans is a great example, popping the ball around of the cuff at will until Bournemouth but has lost that zip at the moment, break will do him good….get Onana and Rogers out of their international squads too.
As soon as it flashed up that Coote was the ref knew we’d get nothing from him, he’s just patently hopeless…shirt pulling is obv a foul outside the box but not in it…tool!
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
Well it’s not great is it?
It’s not just the defeats it’s the nature of the defeats.
We have so many players out of form and likely to fuck up at critical moments.
Watkins useless and in a strop, Roger’s looks like he has seen a ghost, Carlos a fuck up waiting to happen. Bailey , Mcginn so badly off form.We can’t even get a defensive set up from attacking corners.
All this happening at the same time.
Right , it’s not a crisis, so what is it exactly?
add on top of that, we've thrown 2 games to achieve grand total of fuck all point.
.facts you know not opinion
Your both not being negative just being realistic. Its not great at all at the moment
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
Well it’s not great is it?
It’s not just the defeats it’s the nature of the defeats.
We have so many players out of form and likely to fuck up at critical moments.
Watkins useless and in a strop, Roger’s looks like he has seen a ghost, Carlos a fuck up waiting to happen. Bailey , Mcginn so badly off form.We can’t even get a defensive set up from attacking corners.
All this happening at the same time.
Right , it’s not a crisis, so what is it exactly?
It's a blip.
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We haven’t played well for a while now but have largely got away with it.
The spell from the Bournemouth equaliser to now has been horrific, just terrible.
We need to start performing or Heck’s marketing plan is going to go tits up.
All of a sudden we look ponderous and unadventurous.
Oh and Carlos is nowhere near good enough. The guy is a fucking chump. I don’t care if he was great at Arsenal last year or in any single match, he’s a clanger waiting to happen, he can’t be relied upon.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage.
FFS, man. We're a point off third, albeit with unequal games played, and in the top 8 of the Champions League.
We have a poorer squad than last season, playing worse football and have no money to spend.
No money to spend? In my humble opinion you are talking bollocks.
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This is now officially a crisis.
No it's not.
It’s definitely not.
Well it’s not great is it?
It’s not just the defeats it’s the nature of the defeats.
We have so many players out of form and likely to fuck up at critical moments.
Watkins useless and in a strop, Roger’s looks like he has seen a ghost, Carlos a fuck up waiting to happen. Bailey , Mcginn so badly off form.We can’t even get a defensive set up from attacking corners.
All this happening at the same time.
Right , it’s not a crisis, so what is it exactly?
It's a blip.
Giggles.
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It's been months since we last played well and won convincingly. Even in our most recent league wins Wolves should have been 3 or 4 up a halftime and Fulham was assisted by them going down to 10 men and missing a penalty.
It's pretty shit at the moment. UE needs to change something because this pedestrian possession approach to matches isn't working.
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Ever since the Champions League’s utterly obscene prices were announced, there’s been a feel bad factor running through everything for me and it’s gone to ratshit on the pitch also, the Bayern result notwithstanding.
couldn’t agree more. I’ve virtually given up on my season ticket for next season due to Heck’s complete disregard for longstanding faithful fans.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage. Slow, ponderous, kept giving the ball away, terrible set pieces, players then out of position and we make the same mistakes over and over and over again. And to top it off we threw away our only realistic chance at a trophy this season. Watkins, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene and McGinn completely ineffective. The one time we have momentum in the first half we drop off ten yards and let them have the ball uncontested. The honeymoon period is well and truly over.
What a ridiculous comment
Other than saying our season’s finished, which was said out of frustration, which part of what I said is wrong?
The whole comment was out of frustration though. It’s not so long ago we beat Bayern. A degree of perspective is needed, that’s all. We were also better today. And I think the honeymoon period ended 18m ago tbh. Now we’re just a good team playing poorly atm.
Bayern will forever be one of my favourite nights at VP but this evening was so predictable you could have written the script beforehand. It’s almost as if we played to lose 1 or 2-0.
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I’m not sure that’s right tonight Paulie (in terms of level of play). We were much better, and had more intensity, than we’ve had in the last 3 games. It’s a shame Rogers is going through a dip but the level was much better tonight. Still not where it needs to be, but it was a move in the right direction.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage.
FFS, man. We're a point off third, albeit with unequal games played, and in the top 8 of the Champions League.
We have a poorer squad than last season, playing worse football and have no money to spend.
No money to spend? In my humble opinion you are talking bollocks.
Ok, we have loads of money to spend, we’re just not allowed to spend it.
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Didn't deserve to lose tonight. The usual Anfield homer referee aside it was an even game! Onward and upwards.
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It's been months since we last played well and won convincingly. Even in our most recent league wins Wolves should have been 3 or 4 up a halftime and Fulham was assisted by them going down to 10 men and missing a penalty.
It's pretty shit at the moment. UE needs to change something because this pedestrian possession approach to matches isn't working.
Bologna didn’t happen then?
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Also McGinn (like Bailey) was better than recent form. Thought he did pretty well, to be honest.
We were done twice tonight by Salah’s pace, leaving ourselves too exposed on the break. For me, that was the difference.
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Frustrating! I feel we haven't really started our season or got into any kind of gear yet. Keep the faith and in Unai I trust.
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Ever since the Champions League’s utterly obscene prices were announced, there’s been a feel bad factor running through everything for me and it’s gone to ratshit on the pitch also, the Bayern result notwithstanding.
couldn’t agree more. I’ve virtually given up on my season ticket for next season due to Heck’s complete disregard for longstanding faithful fans.
We won't be in the CL next season. Good luck if he tries to fleece us...
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Much better performance even though we lost. Scores on the doors from me:
Martinez - 6 - seemed to be distributing the ball in a more varied fashion tonight but lost a mark as i think he could have come out to Salah more for the second.
Konsa - 6 - Kept Luiz reasonably quiet but really needs to add distribution to his game.
Carlos - 5 - reasonably solid but the odd loose pass and gifted them a goal trying to be cute with that header.
Torres - 7 defended well and was a threat at set pieces, seemed to grow into the game with his passing and drive from the back.
Digne - 5 - solid enough against Salah but offered nothing going forward
Onana - 4 - statuesque and limited in posession, passing accuracy was appaling.
Tielemans - 6 - solid game from Youri tonight and another who grew into the game
Bailey - 5 better in the first half where he worked well with and without the ball but was appaling in the second half
Ramsey - 7 playing well then got injured
Rogers - 3 abysmal, lost possession, made wrong choices, missed an absolute sitter and needs to be taken out of the team imv.
Watkins - 4 wasn't great tonight but when your main supply lines are an under-performing Bailey and a 10 in Rogers who keeps giving the ball away what are you supposed to do? He gets no service
Duran - 5 - came on, did nothing other than hold the ball up a touch better than Watkins
McGinn - 6.5 - a good bustling performance from John tonight came on and caused issues and was a constant threat
Kamara - 6 much more progressive with the ball than Onana
Maatsen - 6.5 did really well when he came on, a constant threat and some good runs forward
All in all our best performance since Fulham. We really pushed in the last 20 minutes and with more composure in the final third could have got something. However, the issues with certain starters remain, I'm convinced Watkins is massively suffering with having to play with Bailey/Rogers currently as they are not playing at all well and are both out of form and unable to provide passes, crosses or the type of balls Ollie likes. Duran offers not much when he comes on as a like for like swap. Unai also seems absolutely determined to keep playing Rogers and never sub him in or out and this isn't being helped by Buendia seemingly not able to step up to the plate.
A welcome international break and we can hopefully regroup before the next tranche of fixtures.
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The odds were stacked against us from the start. Three away matches in a week, less time to recover than the media darlings Liverpool, who frankly bullied us off the ball far too frequently, which is what I thought was the main reason they were sometime dominant; but some of our play was encouraging. JJ was the best player on the pitch IMO until the dreaded hamstring kicked in.
But the things that rankle the most are, first, one of the most biased pre-match and in-match commentaries I've ever heard, TNT willing Liverpool to be 5 points clear throughout.
Then the officials: if the ref missed the shirt pull on Torres, how could VAR also deem it acceptable. And then Kamara gets a card for the same offence in the second half. And if that is not a penalty on Torres just before the break for their second goal, I'll never understand what constitutes a foul. I'm the last person to cry 'corruption' in our league, but some of the officials' behaviour tonight was heavily influenced by the occasion and the media's desperation for Liverpool to go five points clear. I'll calm down eventually, but those decisions also change matches (as well as chances missed).
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Also McGinn (like Bailey) was better than recent form. Thought he did pretty well, to be honest.
We were done twice tonight by Salah’s pace, leaving ourselves too exposed on the break. For me, that was the difference.
I’d say that’s a fair assessment. We really weren’t that bad in terms of performance level tonight. It was very different to the last three games, where we had just plodded around.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Ah stop...he was the last man and actually did really well to cover for Torres that time, so just nod the ball into the stand. Heading it back near Salah was asking for trouble.
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The odds were stacked against us from the start. Three away matches in a week, less time to recover than the media darlings Liverpool, who frankly bullied us off the ball far too frequently, which is what I thought was the main reason they were sometime dominant; but some of our play was encouraging. JJ was the best player on the pitch IMO until the dreaded hamstring kicked in.
But the things that rankle the most are, first, one of the most biased pre-match and in-match commentaries I've ever heard, TNT willing Liverpool to be 5 points clear throughout.
Then the officials: if the ref missed the shirt pull on Torres, how could VAR also deem it acceptable. And then Kamara gets a card for the same offence in the second half. And if that is not a penalty on Torres just before the break for their second goal, I'll never understand what constitutes a foul. I'm the last person to cry 'corruption' in our league, but some of the officials' behaviour tonight was heavily influenced by the occasion and the media's desperation for Liverpool to go five points clear. I'll calm down eventually, but those decisions also change matches (as well as chances missed).
Although i agree with most of your post the part i don't agree with is the extra day off part. We rested a whole team practically for spurs game and were even worse than this game.
We have to take accountability for some of the performances. Its been really dire.
We haven't really got started this season.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Ah stop...he was the last man and actually did really well to cover for Torres that time, so just nod the ball into the stand. Heading it back near Salah was asking for trouble.
Yep, Row Z in that scenario please.
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Apart from the 2 goals gifted to them, that was a much better performance, particularly in the 1st half, against a side, who are now 5 points clear at the top and by some distance the best side in the league at present. On our present form, I was fearing a thrashing, but that never looked like happening.
JJ had his best match since his long term absence, was gutted he had to go off, hopefully the injury won't be too serious. Morgan's going through a tough time at the moment, but he's only 22 and this was probably always gonna happen, I reckon it won't be long before he's back to his best.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Also McGinn (like Bailey) was better than recent form. Thought he did pretty well, to be honest.
We were done twice tonight by Salah’s pace, leaving ourselves too exposed on the break. For me, that was the difference.
I’d say that’s a fair assessment. We really weren’t that bad in terms of performance level tonight. It was very different to the last three games, where we had just plodded around.
We have all seen these runs before, put in a decent performance against a top team, still lose because of glaring inadequacies, repeat.
It’s obvious that there is a problem.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/liverpool-vs-aston-villa/report/505911
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Oh, and Rogers has (predictably, really) hit a wall. Opposing defences have sussed out his game and are waiting for him. He needs a few fresh ideas on how he is going to get the better of them.
Plus, he’s not yet finishing like a forward. I mentioned this in pre-season, but he lacks determination and conviction in his finishing. Personally, I think it will come, but we’re saying that about an uncomfortably large number of players right now.
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We’ve not been at the same level as last season. Bailey is clearly lacking all confidence, to the point we shouldn’t be playing him. It’s impacting everything we do.
I think Emery has signed Onana to try and control games more but it’s not really working and we only really look effective springing forward quickly from a low block which we did at times today.
Unfortunately our forward players are all painfully out of form so some promising breaks and chances came to nothing, but we were very much in that game till the second goal.
My fear for this season was that we could generally play well but just not have the breaks go our way in tight games against the teams above and around us like we did last season.
Tonight, Spurs, Arsenal, all games we could have got points in and did last season, but didn’t get anything this time round. It leaves us a lot of ground to make up if we’re to finish in the top 4 again. If we’re to do it this period has to be the blip, we can’t afford another one.
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It's still extremely close at the top of the table.
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We play like we don’t believe we can score.
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They had 3 really good chances, scored 2 and all of them were absolute gifts from us.
Add it to the list over the past few games. Maddening. Another clanger from Carlos. Not quite sure how he manages to find a midgets head, bur there we are.
But...unlike the last 3 games, we looked decent. Carried a threat, I thought from JJ in particular. Rogers has to score at the start of the 2nd half. Final ball not quite there from him, but he's absolutely integral to the way we play.
Felt Bailey faded quite noticeably and Philogene hasn't got to grips yet with the attacking side of the game.
Not overly impressed with Liverpool, I think they're worse than last season, but the league looks a yard or two off what it was. Just doing enough though and they're top, with Man City, us and Arsenal having a bit of a moment.
Fleeting though, as the quality is quite obviously there. Wee break will do us good.
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We gave a good account of ourselves. Cut out the naive mistakes and we will be rather good. Onwards and upwards!
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As bad and biased as the ref was, Bailey should have been off so i guess we cant be too harsh on cootes.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Also McGinn (like Bailey) was better than recent form. Thought he did pretty well, to be honest.
We were done twice tonight by Salah’s pace, leaving ourselves too exposed on the break. For me, that was the difference.
I’d say that’s a fair assessment. We really weren’t that bad in terms of performance level tonight. It was very different to the last three games, where we had just plodded around.
Agree Paul and there were periods of the game when we got on top. Conceded really poor goals again though and didn't take our chances when they came along.
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Bailey couldn’t be sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity when they scored. He could have been booked though.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Also McGinn (like Bailey) was better than recent form. Thought he did pretty well, to be honest.
We were done twice tonight by Salah’s pace, leaving ourselves too exposed on the break. For me, that was the difference.
I’d say that’s a fair assessment. We really weren’t that bad in terms of performance level tonight. It was very different to the last three games, where we had just plodded around.
Agree Paul and there were periods of the game when we got on top. Conceded really poor goals again though and didn't take our chances when they came along.
Yep absolutely, the inability to convert chances and conceding stupid goals is frustrating at the moment. But I was encouraged by the intensity and quality of play at times. That was a big step forward from the last three games.
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Harsh to single out Carlos’ “mistake” - he was gambling to keep our attack going as the clock ticked down (isn’t that what we want?), and that’s what sometimes happens when you gamble; you lose.
Ah stop...he was the last man and actually did really well to cover for Torres that time, so just nod the ball into the stand. Heading it back near Salah was asking for trouble.
Yep, Row Z in that scenario please.
In the typical scenario, he would have turned and shepherded it back to Martinez. We’d have had our usual spell of possession, all the players would have come back to their positions…
In this case, there’s 5 minutes left on the clock, we’ve had them pinned back for 5 or so minutes, our big lads are still in the box, and he takes a gamble on keeping up the momentum and pressure. I think that’s the right decision.
It wasn’t well executed however, and it’s unfortunate that it lands flush on Salah’s forehead. But that’s it, it really isn’t a brain fart, if you will.
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We haven't played well since...the 89th minute at Bournemouth. Palace we couldn't be arsed with, Spurs was a dreadful 2nd 45 and Bruges was tedious stuff.
It happens, not very often, which is why there's such drama from a small minority on here. Happens to the best. Happens to those that think they're the best too, the Lego haired wanker.
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It's not a crisis. We'll be OK. But we are fucking atrocious in front of goal at the moment.
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It's not a crisis. We'll be OK. But we are fucking atrocious in front of goal at the moment.
And the rest of the team aren't chipping in with enough to make up for Watkins and Rogers missing chances like we were with ease last year.
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We haven't played well since...the 89th minute at Bournemouth. Palace we couldn't be arsed with, Spurs was a dreadful 2nd 45 and Bruges was tedious stuff.
It happens, not very often, which is why there's such drama from a small minority on here. Happens to the best. Happens to those that think they're the best too, the Lego haired wanker.
Largely agree on performance, but had we played like we did tonight against Spurs and Brugge I suspect we win end draw each of those (possibly not in that order). It was a lot less static and laboured tonight.
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The only good thing is that we have Palace next. Mind you, we may put out our second string again to see if it’s second time lucky!!
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Not read any of pages 1-7
For me that's a much better performance . Denied by 2 great saves and a clear pen by VAR .
Ramsey was superb , Maatsen very good when he came on .
I think we are about to turn things around now after a tough few weeks
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Not read any of pages 1-7
For me that's a much better performance . Denied by 2 great saves and a clear pen by VAR .
Ramsey was superb , Maatsen very good when he came on .
I think we are about to turn things around now after a tough few weeks
Yep the performance was much stronger.
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And that was a fucking stonewall penalty on Torres. Fucking abomination Coote.
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And that was a fucking stonewall penalty on Torres. Fucking abomination Coote.
Yeah and VAR. They then gave basically the same foul against Kamara.
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When you look at the chances we had we could have got a result, we looked dangerous from corners and caused them some trouble but again we gave the ball up far too easy. Not sure whats up with Watkins, i have defended him about the lack of supply but today he was bullied out of every challenge, Duran did have more impact when he came on. I have not given up on a top four spot just yet but we do need to spengd in January.
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Nobody should give up on anything. Tight as a nuns chuff this league. We'll be reet.
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Their best attacks were our corners.
Obviously disappointed by the result but the performance was good .
better days ahead UTFV
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We are too wasteful.
Too many missed chances which are costing us.
Watkins has his hot spots and the “not so hot” spots. He’s been subdued all season, despite scoring a few goals, he’s missing many many more than he should be.
Rogers is brilliant - but finishing isn’t his strength at the moment.
Bailey is struggling.
Our entire attack is ineffective at the moment. It’s costing us. We equalise today and we win. But we offer as much going forward as a fart against thunder presently.
Bailey struggling understatement of the season. He’s blooming awful.
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That’s our season finished. Utter garbage.
FFS, man. We're a point off third, albeit with unequal games played, and in the top 8 of the Champions League.
We have a poorer squad than last season, playing worse football and have no money to spend.
How do you know we’ve got no money to spend?
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If we sell Jaden, Carlos, Buendia, Bailey we will have money to bring in decent replacements.
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Liverpool scored two on the break.
We were decent.
Has 3 good chances.
No issues.
It’s a long season.
The futures bright.
UTV
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We are not far from being the best in the PL.
All is good.
The only team that I reckon can stop us winning the CL is Barcelona.
I predict us v Barcelona in the semis.
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Nobody should give up on anything. Tight as a nuns chuff this league. We'll be reet.
True.
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So predictable, totally distraught tonight.
Trump?
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Nobody should give up on anything. Tight as a nuns chuff this league. We'll be reet.
Especially after that performance. Clearly we need to tighten up at the back and be more clinical in front of goal, but that performance was a significant step up from the laboured, sluggish displays of the previous week. If we keep up that level and sharpen up a bit we’ll win plenty of games.
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Nobody should give up on anything. Tight as a nuns chuff this league. We'll be reet.
Especially after that performance. Clearly we need to tighten up at the back and be more clinical in front of goal, but that performance was a significant step up from the laboured, sluggish displays of the previous week. If we keep up that level and sharpen up a bit we’ll win plenty of games.
That was my take.
We'll be back to our best soon.
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Oh and Carlos is nowhere near good enough. The guy is a fucking chump. I don’t care if he was great at Arsenal last year or in any single match, he’s a clanger waiting to happen, he can’t be relied upon.
I realise people find it boring pointing this out, but the reason Emery picks the combination of defenders he picked today is because (without Mings obvs) it’s the combination that concedes the fewest goals. Argue against that fact. Nothing to do with a single game against Arsenal. Or Man City. Or Bayern Munich. Or Bologna. Or Arsenal again.
It’s a bit much accusing someone who might stick up for Carlos of using an unrepresentative and small sample size, when actually, it’s the accuser who’s doing exactly that.
It would be more accurate to say ‘I don’t care if he’s played in over two-thirds of our clean sheets since the beginning of last season’ or ‘I don’t care if we concede more goals when Cash and Konsa play in their traditional positions’.
Truth matters a bit, surely? As does arguing with the points people make instead of making up shit ones because they’re easier to argue against.
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Performance was a step up today, l’ll take that against the current best team in the league. We need a bit of a reset so perhaps, for once, the international break comes at a good time.
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Performance was a step up today, l’ll take that against the current best team in the league. We need a bit of a reset so perhaps, for once, the international break comes at a good time.
We said that at the last international break.
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Might be by age but there is some real over reactions on here.
‘Season over’ ‘Crisis’ ‘we were awful’
Calm the fuck down. Lost 4 on the spin ok - one of them we threw, one was a single brain fart, one was a 2nd half collapse, one was against the best team in the country and Europe away!
Were we watching the same match? A massive improvement on our play from previous matches overall.
Players intelligent and respectful enough to know they repeated the crap play of previous it’d been a massacre. We weren’t overrun despite pre match predictions and our luck wasn’t with us with the best performer going off, sitter missed and gifted breakaway goals. Not to mention the of-course biased ref.
Emery (right now) is prepping for the Palace game. I think we’ll be fine and bring in a couple of faces in Jan and improve that right hand side.
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Performance was a step up today, l’ll take that against the current best team in the league. We need a bit of a reset so perhaps, for once, the international break comes at a good time.
We said that at the last international break.
Yeah maybe, but anyone who watched the game yesterday I would hope would have seen the improvement in the underlying performance. Also given the quality of the opposition that’s a pretty good sign. Match that level and refine the attack and tighten the defence a bit, we’ll be fine.
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Bizarrely I’m still angry about that game this morning. The previous three losses I could live with because we weren’t great but that felt like we were cheated out of a result albeit our poor finishing made it worse. I am still at a loss why Tierney did not make Coote go and look at the monitor
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Bizarrely I’m still angry about that game this morning. The previous three losses I could live with because we weren’t great but that felt like we were cheated out of a result albeit our poor finishing made it worse. I am still at a loss why Tierney did not make Coote go and look at the monitor
Im not angry about last night. More disappointed. I was more angry with Brugges and Spurs performances but as you say the performance was improved but still making same mistakes.
Yeah the ref was poor but I think Bailey is a blatent red. Had we gone to 10 we would have got battered so I don't think we have much ground to complain even if we should have had a penalty
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Oh and Carlos is nowhere near good enough. The guy is a fucking chump. I don’t care if he was great at Arsenal last year or in any single match, he’s a clanger waiting to happen, he can’t be relied upon.
I realise people find it boring pointing this out, but the reason Emery picks the combination of defenders he picked today is because (without Mings obvs) it’s the combination that concedes the least goals. Argue against that fact. Nothing to do with a single game against Arsenal. Or Man City. Or Bayern Munich. Or Bologna. Or Arsenal again.
It’s a bit much accusing someone who might stick up for Carlos of using an unrepresentative and small sample size, when actually, it’s the accuser who’s doing exactly that.
It would be more accurate to say ‘I don’t care if he’s played in over two-thirds of our clean sheets since the beginning of last season’ or ‘I don’t care if we concede more goals when Cash and Konsa play in their traditional positions’.
Truth matters a bit, surely? And maybe arguing with the points people make instead of making up shit ones because they’re easier to argue against.
Fewest goals.
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Oh and Carlos is nowhere near good enough. The guy is a fucking chump. I don’t care if he was great at Arsenal last year or in any single match, he’s a clanger waiting to happen, he can’t be relied upon.
I realise people find it boring pointing this out, but the reason Emery picks the combination of defenders he picked today is because (without Mings obvs) it’s the combination that concedes the fewest goals. Argue against that fact. Nothing to do with a single game against Arsenal. Or Man City. Or Bayern Munich. Or Bologna. Or Arsenal again.
It’s a bit much accusing someone who might stick up for Carlos of using an unrepresentative and small sample size, when actually, it’s the accuser who’s doing exactly that.
It would be more accurate to say ‘I don’t care if he’s played in over two-thirds of our clean sheets since the beginning of last season’ or ‘I don’t care if we concede more goals when Cash and Konsa play in their traditional positions’.
Truth matters a bit, surely? And maybe arguing with the points people make instead of making up shit ones because they’re easier to argue against.
Fewest goals.
Thanks. Edited.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
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I'm still pissed off with the Ref and VAR. I know people don't like to blame the ref when we lose, but that was text book Anfield officiating. 2 clear penalties waved away. You can play as well as you like but if you don't get what's right from the officials AND you're up against world class players like Salah, you're fucked.
Of the media favourites, Liverpool is the club I least despise, so it's not bitterness to say that last night was shocking bias. Also, TNT... my god. Excruciating. I had to turn the sound off at one point to protect my blood pressure!
As for our performance, I thought we played pretty well, and certainly better than the past few games. We needed to score the chances we made, but again didn't. That always puts pressure on the defence. So we weren't clinical or tight enough to allow for the clear and obvious chickening out of the officials.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
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We haven't played well since...the 89th minute at Bournemouth. Palace we couldn't be arsed with, Spurs was a dreadful 2nd 45 and Bruges was tedious stuff.
It happens, not very often, which is why there's such drama from a small minority on here. Happens to the best. Happens to those that think they're the best too, the Lego haired wanker.
Indeed. Though the most annoying thing about today was how it was a throwback Villa performance from times when no matter how well we played versus one of the "big" clubs, we'd always find a way to lose.
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If we're in a crisis, then Man City must be too. Honestly, there are some right old drama queens on here, it's embarrassing.
Encouraged by the better performance but I couldn't see us scoring but it will come. Hopefully the break will do us good.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
Potentially. And yet we’ve definitely conceded more when he hasn’t played.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Kinsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
I agree and if the rumours were tru he would have been replaced last summer but FFP didn’t allow it to happen
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Interestingly, Konsa played best last night when he was defending in the centre: at RB he looked a little lost, I thought: time to put him back where he belongs and use Cash or Nedeljkovic at RB (I'd like to see the latter get some games because when he has played he's defended well and can be an out-ball).
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I felt the Rogers miss early in the 2nd half was the decisive point: score that and we push on and make a game of it, particularly since Liverpool clearly came out for that half with a slow-down / containment approach. I saw the tug on Torres for the free kick as a foul, since without the tug he'd have got to the cross and perhaps created something: as usual Coote bottled it (he really is an excuse for a ref).
In the pre-match thread, I argued for a double-pivot of Onana and Kamara, with Philogene playing the more defensive winger role (instead of the waste-of-space Bailey): having watched most of the game, I stand by those thoughts.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
I agree and if the rumours were tru he would have been replaced last summer but FFP didn’t allow it to happen
Don't think it was FFP; no one (notably Fulham) wanted to stump up the dosh for him.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
Sorry. I can’t remember what I said but you’re welcome to an apology if you really want one.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
I agree and if the rumours were tru he would have been replaced last summer but FFP didn’t allow it to happen
Don't think it was FFP; no one (notably Fulham) wanted to stump up the dosh for him.
Yes, same as every player we didn’t sell.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
What the fuck are you on about?
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
I agree. I’m under strict instructions not to fall out with you. 😉
That’s why I’m picking on that Demi Moore clown.
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We’d potentially have conceded fewer goals with someone else playing instead of Carlos in the games where he should have been credited with assists for the opposition.
I agree. I’m under strict instructions not to fall out with you. 😉
That’s why I’m picking on that Demi Moore clown.
Lol, as the young people say.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
What the fuck are you on about?
You very well know what im on about dont make out you dont know percy pig
Just ignore me and ill do same for me. Cant be asked with anymore of your games and nonsense
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The issue for me is that we are limited in the RB position because Cash is not good enough and Konsa is non existent from an attacking perspective.
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Carlos was good yesterday even though I’d much prefer Mings there instead. Liverpool are the best in the league on the break and that’s the difference. Overall we played well given the opposition. Diaz wasn’t in the game as he was marshalled well by Konsa. Kelleher seemed to have more to do than Martinez their goals apart. How we weren’t given two pens I’ll never know. The Torres one was blatant, the shirt pulling on Ollie less so but that’s what VAR’s for or so I thought.
A shame for Ramsey because he was playing well before having to go off. He’s either unlucky or very injury prone.
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The issue for me is that we are limited in the RB position because Cash is not good enough and Konsa is non existent from an attacking perspective.
Yeah its a big problem
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I have only seen the highlights - the Ollie Watkins one looked pretty clearly a pen to me. Does anyone have a link to the pau Torres incident as it’s not shown on the highlights
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Interestingly, Konsa played best last night when he was defending in the centre: at RB he looked a little lost, I thought: time to put him back where he belongs and use Cash or Nedeljkovic at RB (I'd like to see the latter get some games because when he has played he's defended well and can be an out-ball).
Aside from letting Salah have a free shot for the second goal and instead trying to do Martinez job for him. That was very odd, if Salah squares it for a tap in that wouldn't have been his problem. Konsa is quick and usually reads dangerous situations very well in the middle. He's much better on the ball in a central position too, he's horrid next to the sideline.
I get that we lack physicality at times when Konsa/Torres play together (they were doing fine v Solanke last week, mind) but we have no pace on the turn when Carlos/Torres do. Id be in favour of playing our best players in their best positions and that's Konsa at RCB.
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It was on MOTD, see the iplayer. They felt neither calls were strong enough, I kind of agree. Saints were robbed more at Molineux.
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I have only seen the highlights - the Ollie Watkins one looked pretty clearly a pen to me. Does anyone have a link to the pau Torres incident as it’s not shown on the highlights
The rugby tackle on Watkins was an obvious penalty in real time and it beggars belief VAR didn't (at least) ask him to have another look. My stress levels won't allow me to watch a reply of that or the Torres one.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
What the fuck are you on about?
You very well know what im on about dont make out you dont know percy pig
Just ignore me and ill do same for me. Cant be asked with anymore of your games and nonsense
I was making a joke out of trying to get away with editing my post. Don’t be so precious.
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
It's been seriously shit from the Bournemouth equaliser onwards. I'd forgotten what it was like to lose all the time. Not good as it happens.
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
I’m not sure he did. It was actually a pretty heavy challenge which the commentators continued to pretend wasn’t one at all to the extent that maybe he should have been booked for simulation. He was pushed and then tackled at hip height without the defender getting near the ball but ‘ha you’re not getting a penalty for that!’ It’s was actually bizarre.
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I thought it looked like Watkins was far too theatrical, when you throw your arms and legs up in the air, it usually pisses refs off and they don't give the penalty.
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
I’m not sure he did. It was actually a pretty heavy challenge which the commentators continued to pretend wasn’t one at all to the extent that maybe he should have been booked for simulation. He was pushed and then tackled at hip height without the defender getting near the ball but ‘ha you’re not getting a penalty for that!’ It’s was actually bizarre.
Infectious, unconscious and conscious bias.
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I thought it looked like Watkins was far too theatrical, when you throw your arms and legs up in the air, it usually pisses refs off and they don't give the penalty.
That's my take too
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Let's be honest, down the other end it's given.
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Let's be honest, down the other end it's given.
Also true
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I felt the Rogers miss early in the 2nd half was the decisive point
It really was.
Other than it being a bad miss, Bailey had an open goal if played in.
Steep learning curve for Morgan, but it will come.
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
I’m not sure he did. It was actually a pretty heavy challenge which the commentators continued to pretend wasn’t one at all to the extent that maybe he should have been booked for simulation. He was pushed and then tackled at hip height without the defender getting near the ball but ‘ha you’re not getting a penalty for that!’ It’s was actually bizarre.
Yeah, I thought that narrative was absolute bollocks, he clatters him hip to hip as Ollie is mid stride, I was unaware hip barges when you're nowhere near the ball was absolutely fine.
If you swapped the shirts of the players for both of those incidents they'd have been given without question by any of the ref, the absolute bellend on commentary or Match of the Day.
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
What the fuck are you on about?
You very well know what im on about dont make out you dont know percy pig
Just ignore me and ill do same for me. Cant be asked with anymore of your games and nonsense
I was making a joke out of trying to get away with editing my post. Don’t be so precious.
I thought jokes were meant to be funny 😂
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
I’m not sure he did. It was actually a pretty heavy challenge which the commentators continued to pretend wasn’t one at all to the extent that maybe he should have been booked for simulation. He was pushed and then tackled at hip height without the defender getting near the ball but ‘ha you’re not getting a penalty for that!’ It’s was actually bizarre.
Yeah, I thought that narrative was absolute bollocks, he clatters him hip to hip as Ollie is mid stride, I was unaware hip barges when you're nowhere near the ball was absolutely fine.
If you swapped the shirts of the players for both of those incidents they'd have been given without question by any of the ref, the absolute bellend on commentary or Match of the Day.
Salah got a way softer penalty against us at Anfield in 2021.
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I reckon he didn't give the Watkins one because he overegged the dive.
I’m not sure he did. It was actually a pretty heavy challenge which the commentators continued to pretend wasn’t one at all to the extent that maybe he should have been booked for simulation. He was pushed and then tackled at hip height without the defender getting near the ball but ‘ha you’re not getting a penalty for that!’ It’s was actually bizarre.
Yeah, I thought that narrative was absolute bollocks, he clatters him hip to hip as Ollie is mid stride, I was unaware hip barges when you're nowhere near the ball was absolutely fine.
If you swapped the shirts of the players for both of those incidents they'd have been given without question by any of the ref, the absolute bellend on commentary or Match of the Day.
Salah got a way softer penalty against us at Anfield in 2021.
Nothing beats that bruno one where he fouls konsa and manure get a penalty.
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Yes that's the one that immediately springs to mind.
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I said to the wife watching it that when you play there or at Old Trafford, it's like there's a 75/25 split in terms of the referees decisions in their favour, fouls against you have to have been near death experiences, 50-50 decisions are only going one way, and the only 'cheap' decisions you get are for free kicks in your own half, usually just after the officials have absolutely shafted you.
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Thats the most unraged ive been about a penalty that went against us
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I thought the Watkins one was - and I think it had been given it wouldn’t have been over turned.
I think our players are always too tame when we appeal for a pen. We need to get the - this is the greatest injustice of all time - kind of reactions that the other top teams do.
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I thought it looked like Watkins was far too theatrical, when you throw your arms and legs up in the air, it usually pisses refs off and they don't give the penalty.
VAR can though & the impression from commentary was that it wasn’t even worth looking at.
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I thought the Watkins one was - and I think it had been given it wouldn’t have been over turned.
I think our players are always too tame when we appeal for a pen. We need to get the - this is the greatest injustice of all time - kind of reactions that the other top teams do.
I'm afraid you're right, everyone seems to be allowed to rag doll Ollie with impunity, he needs to learn a from Kane how to make the most of it or else they'll just ignore it each time.
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If Salah's was a penalty the other year, Watkin's non-penalty ought to have been given too. As should the Torres one. The Kopites routinely get decisions, made easier by an absolute blundering ****** of a referee in Coote.
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I thought it looked like Watkins was far too theatrical, when you throw your arms and legs up in the air, it usually pisses refs off and they don't give the penalty.
VAR can though & the impression from commentary was that it wasn’t even worth looking at.
Initially, it did look theatrical. But on review less so, it just looked like a really odd waist high challenge.
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Deleted
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I only saw the MOTD highlights this morning, so hard to tell how well or otherwise we played, but it did seem we played well enough, not that I enjoy playing well enough and losing, its what nice mid-table teams tend to do.
I cannot work out how the Torres shirt pull can be looked at by VAR and not given, Bradley practically swings him around.
Its ironic that the last time we had a proper bad run under Emery, was in his first season when we lost to Leicester, Arsenal and Man City and it was a scrappy win against Palace at home, that got us back on track.
A big couple of weeks coming up for Emery and his coaches, would take a win of any kind against Palace to get us back on track.
Sounds obvious, but being such confidence players, Bailey and Watkins both badly need a goal.
Also, although Diaby fell away fairly badly after xmas last year, him, Bailey and Watkins were pretty dynamic this time last year. Two out of that three are off form, which needs re-discovering, but Im really not sure Philogene is an adequate replacement for Diaby. I think Kamara and Onana together maybe the quickest answer her, with Rogers wide and Tielemans where Rogers normally plays closer to Watkins.
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You don't get decisions at VARfield and even if you do they quickly even things up somehow . Hope Ramsey is ok i thought he was fantastic last night like his old self
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
Unai always picks Konsa at RB & Carlos against the best teams, and has been proven right to do so.
Funny you criticised me for calling Mings "mongs" yet you called Konsa "Kinsa" shows how easy it is to make a typo. But unlike you I won't make up rubbish like you did yesterday and offered no apology.
What the fuck are you on about?
You very well know what im on about dont make out you dont know percy pig
Just ignore me and ill do same for me. Cant be asked with anymore of your games and nonsense
I was making a joke out of trying to get away with editing my post. Don’t be so precious.
I thought jokes were meant to be funny 😂
You haven’t been on the jokes thread have you?
But even the ones in there are funny enough not to have to post emojis so people know it’s a joke.
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Thought the commentary was excruciating. They described the first goal as "an amazing break by Liverpool" when all their player did was hoof the ball into an empty half of the pitch and some players chased after it. While I'm on it I watched the re-run several times and there's no contact from Bailey when Salah did what Salah does- he fell over. Bailey did put his arm on his shoulder though which made it look worse but Salah had already committed to the dive by then. I think the commentators wanted him sent off and given the cat'o'nine tails for his heinous assault on Saint Mo.
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If Salah's was a penalty the other year, Watkin's non-penalty ought to have been given too. As should the Torres one. The Kopites routinely get decisions, made easier by an absolute blundering ****** of a referee in Coote.
Although I’ve no doubt that Coote is blundering ****** of a referee I also believe he has an ingrained bias against Villa. The frequency with which he makes wrong decisions against us, match after match, has no other real explanation.
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Watching football over the last 45 years and the media especially the BBC have a soft spot for Liverpool, ManU and Arsenal.
But Liverpool is their real sweetheart.
The bias is staggering.
Alan Green.
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Disappointed if we had taken our chances thing's would have been different.
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Watching football over the last 45 years and the media especially the BBC have a soft spot for Liverpool, ManU and Arsenal.
But Liverpool is their real sweetheart.
The bias is staggering.
Alan Green.
Well it’s not that surprising really they are the three most successful clubs in English football. Who’d have thought the three most successful clubs get all the attention!
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Has Alan Green retired? Haven't heard him in ages, thankfully. He's the sporting equivalent of Eamonn Holmes - fat, gobby and insufferable.
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the commentator was moaning in the first 10 mins how much time Martinez was taking over goal kicks and kept doing so , wanker
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Just watched it this morning after La Bluenose made me accompany her to some half-arsed fireworks display in Epsom
Both the commentator and the pundit were dire. I swear if she mentioned Thursday night (we played *Wednesday*) one more time my boot was going through the screen...
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If Salah's was a penalty the other year, Watkin's non-penalty ought to have been given too. As should the Torres one. The Kopites routinely get decisions, made easier by an absolute blundering ****** of a referee in Coote.
Although I’ve no doubt that Coote is blundering ****** of a referee I also believe he has an ingrained bias against Villa. The frequency with which he makes wrong decisions against us, match after match, has no other real explanation.
And yet VAR backed him both times.
It seems the shirt pull law is contextual, you're much likely to get the decision if it's not in a danger area.
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Thought the commentary was excruciating. They described the first goal as "an amazing break by Liverpool" when all their player did was hoof the ball into an empty half of the pitch and some players chased after it. While I'm on it I watched the re-run several times and there's no contact from Bailey when Salah did what Salah does- he fell over. Bailey did put his arm on his shoulder though which made it look worse but Salah had already committed to the dive by then. I think the commentators wanted him sent off and given the cat'o'nine tails for his heinous assault on Saint Mo.
One that Mr Coote called correctly
Tbh the only decision I totally disagreed with of his was the shirt pull
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Konsa has pretty well only been chosen this season when Cash has been injured, so whatever the stats do or don't say, Cash is still Unai's first choice when fit. Konsa was dreadful at right back yesterday, Carlos was awful at centre back, and one of his characteristic mistakes led directly to their second goal.
We need to be playing Ned or Lamarde there, at least until the transfer window. I'd rather a genuine, green right back than an experienced fake one. Konsa keeps drifting to the centre. Which is no surprise when that's his natural position
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
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Might be by age but there is some real over reactions on here.
‘Season over’ ‘Crisis’ ‘we were awful’
Calm the fuck down. Lost 4 on the spin ok - one of them we threw, one was a single brain fart, one was a 2nd half collapse, one was against the best team in the country and Europe away!
Were we watching the same match? A massive improvement on our play from previous matches overall.
Players intelligent and respectful enough to know they repeated the crap play of previous it’d been a massacre. We weren’t overrun despite pre match predictions and our luck wasn’t with us with the best performer going off, sitter missed and gifted breakaway goals. Not to mention the of-course biased ref.
Emery (right now) is prepping for the Palace game. I think we’ll be fine and bring in a couple of faces in Jan and improve that right hand side.
Disaster is when you spend billions and billions and you lose 4 games on the bounce (Manchester City)
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VAR was never going to give the penalty & cancel out Sarah's goal. Image the reaction, they'd be talking about it in 30 years time. Above all clubs I dislike them more than any other.
We matched them except for the gifts & the finishing. We need to strengthen our attacking options. Rogers should not be a starter week in week out. He's young & inconsistent except there's almost never an end product.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
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I’m on about the night game and it wasn’t raining from memory and yes White scored four.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
Ah yes but…. It depends on if you are sitting in the gutter and the kerb is a step up or you have fallen off the chesterfield onto Axminster floor. It’s the appropriate relevancy that’s lacking from your post that’s worrying me.
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Okay 0-1 at home to Notts County as champions.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
We had an absolutely terrible 0-0 draw against them in April 1987 when it chucked it down all game. That would probably have been Grand National day.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
We had an absolutely terrible 0-0 draw against them in April 1987 when it chucked it down all game. That would probably have been Grand National day.
Yeah that sounds about right , shocking game
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]
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
that was the Tuart 4-goal spree in their five goal roasting of us?
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
We had an absolutely terrible 0-0 draw against them in April 1987 when it chucked it down all game. That would probably have been Grand National day.
Yeah that sounds about right , shocking game
Wasn't that David White match under Dr Jo? I am pretty sure it was. I recall seeing myself on telly pointing out my disappointment to him at the end.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
We had an absolutely terrible 0-0 draw against them in April 1987 when it chucked it down all game. That would probably have been Grand National day.
Sat in the North Stand for the first time for that game due to an offer on the Evening Mail, it was absolutely terrible but I think it was the Bank Holiday Monday.
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David White was a night game under Dr Jo. The ever-supportive Evening Mail did their "In God's Name Go" headline the day after.
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It was a midweek game yes, I think it was originally scheduled before Christmas but was cancelled due to snow.
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It was a midweek game yes, I think it was originally scheduled before Christmas but was cancelled due to snow.
Yes think i left at 3 and didn’t realise we lost by 5 . He was so quick David White
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We're 1 point closer to 4th this season after 11 games than we were last season. Crisis.
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…..what crisis?
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Believe Emery called out the penalty decision, hopefully it a sign that he's had enough of dodgy refs
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We're 1 point closer to 4th this season after 11 games than we were last season. Crisis.
Thankfully because the results have gone our way thats only reason though tbf
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Well yeah but we don’t play in a vacuum. Just like we’re going through a sticky patch so are other teams. Referring to it as a “crisis” was just nonsense.
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Thanks I liked it.
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We're 1 point closer to 4th this season after 11 games than we were last season. Crisis.
Thankfully because the results have gone our way thats only reason though tbf
That's kind of the thing about football, though, results can go your way, they can go against you. It happens all the time, it's not some random factor this season.
We've had a four game spell of bad results (just like Man City have). It's shit, losing, and I thought we'd stopped doing that, but really, although it's normal to be a bit concerned, some of the absolute shitting-of-beds going on here is way over the top.
I half expect someone to say "And what's more, we're only not in the Championship any more because goal line technology wasn't turned on properly against Sheffield United".
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Well to be fair……it was because Paul Mitchell hit our player.
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Can someone mock up the Villa crest broken in two please?
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We're 1 point closer to 4th this season after 11 games than we were last season. Crisis.
Thankfully because the results have gone our way thats only reason though tbf
That's kind of the thing about football, though, results can go your way, they can go against you. It happens all the time, it's not some random factor this season.
We've had a four game spell of bad results (just like Man City have). It's shit, losing, and I thought we'd stopped doing that, but really, although it's normal to be a bit concerned, some of the absolute shitting-of-beds going on here is way over the top.
I half expect someone to say "And what's more, we're only not in the Championship any more because goal line technology wasn't turned on properly against Sheffield United".
Yeah good points Paulie. City is a perfect example as you say but as much as i dislike them, they have some fantastic players to turn it around. We are not quite there yet.
I predicted 7th at start of season and i think thats where we will end up based on what ive seen so far - but it is wide open again this year. If we can find some form and get back to winning games then we have a chance for top 5.
The kick in the balls was that Bournemouth one. Those extra 2 points would have been huge.
Although im not hitting the red nuclear self destruction button yet, its the limited amount of league games that we have played well so far thats the biggest concern for me.
Hopefully the international break is going to give us abit of a reset.
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We're 1 point closer to 4th this season after 11 games than we were last season. Crisis.
Thankfully because the results have gone our way thats only reason though tbf
That's kind of the thing about football, though, results can go your way, they can go against you. It happens all the time, it's not some random factor this season.
We've had a four game spell of bad results (just like Man City have). It's shit, losing, and I thought we'd stopped doing that, but really, although it's normal to be a bit concerned, some of the absolute shitting-of-beds going on here is way over the top.
I half expect someone to say "And what's more, we're only not in the Championship any more because goal line technology wasn't turned on properly against Sheffield United".
Quite, it’s been a ropey run but other teams are having similar challenges. I keep coming back to it, but yesterday was much closer to where we need to be in terms of performance. Had it not been Liverpool away I think we might well have overwhelmed other sides playing like that, we nearly did them. Hopefully that’s a bit of a corner turned and whilst we still need to eradicate the stupid errors I’m much more hopeful we could go on a positive run.
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I mean, it's almost like we're having a good season with room for improvement.
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I agree, Paul. It looked much more like what we’ve come to expect under Unai. It was telling I thought that they changed their approach after half time to try to limit our attacking options.
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The David White game was 25th April 1991 - I only remember the date because it was my Mum's birthday.
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Believe Emery called out the penalty decision, hopefully it a sign that he's had enough of dodgy refs
Which one the Torres one or the Watkins one
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I agree, Paul. It looked much more like what we’ve come to expect under Unai. It was telling I thought that they changed their approach after half time to try to limit our attacking options.
Slot didn't give us much praise afterwards but he must've known that we ran them close.
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Believe Emery called out the penalty decision, hopefully it a sign that he's had enough of dodgy refs
Which one the Torres one or the Watkins one
Torres.
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I’ve reflected since yesterday after the crisis comment.
I’ve lived through 1986-87. A 1-5 at home to David Whites Man Citeh. A 0-6 at home to Liverpool. 0-8, 0-3, 0-4 and Bradford in Lamberts era. Then 2015-16z And then of course Gerrard. And Garde. And Eric Black. So not really a crisis.
You've just brought back a memory I thought I'd buried in that City match.He really ripped us apart that day/evening?
was at the game , if i recall it pissed down all 90 minutes and Citeh wore that black and red striped away kit . Wasn't it Grand National day
We had an absolutely terrible 0-0 draw against them in April 1987 when it chucked it down all game. That would probably have been Grand National day.
That was one of three home games in a row that we needed to win to have any chance of staying up. It started well with a 1-0 win over Coventry, with Birch scoring, but then we drew 1-1 with Watford in a midweek match, I remember Mark Falco scoring for them but not who got ours. I think that terrible Man City game in the rain was the third game and a real contrast to the Saturday before when we beat Coventry on a nice spring day. I haven't got much memory of the game other than Imre Varadi playing for them, and some bloke standing near me at the front of the Holte, giving our own Garry Thompson and load of racist abuse. Those were the days. It was also what you’d call a crisis compared to now.
Grand National day was always the same day as FA Cup semi final day before they started dicking around with it.
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Steve Hunt scored against Watford, I was one of the 12k or so watching.
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I agree, Paul. It looked much more like what we’ve come to expect under Unai. It was telling I thought that they changed their approach after half time to try to limit our attacking options.
Slot didn't give us much praise afterwards but he must've known that we ran them close.
Am looking forward with anticipation to when things go a bit awry at Anfield. At the moment, Slot is like a bloke who won the lottery but forgot his roots.
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https://youtu.be/PB17ES2h3Gc?si=fQCSjNs6IihXmEGP
To take this in you have to appreciate how shit and irrelevant citeh were at the time.
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I was at that Watford game 1-1i remember it well. I did a little dance on the Holte (the right side) when we scored (forgive me i was 16). Some older types just looked at me and laughed.
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I was at that Watford game that was 1 each, i remember it well. I did a little dance on the Holte (the right side) when we scored (forgive me i was 16). Some older types just looked at me and laughed.
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Correction i was 15!
Yes Steve Hunt scored
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Just watched Sky's Ref Watch re the 'foul' on Pau and as expected they all reckon no pen, which of course is nonsense, if the exact situation had been reversed and Liverpool were claiming a pen, would the ref have given it, of course he would and would VAR have backed him up, of course they would.
The 14 managers/ head coaches of the non SKY 6 clubs should get together, ASAP and arrange a meeting with The Referee Association, to demand that any shirt pulling, even for a second, is a pen. We've gotta to a stop to this nonsene.
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
The thing that annoyed me was hw didnt award a pen for shirty pull but gave one of our players a yellow for the exact same thing later in the game. Its the inconsistencies and blatent bias that i dont like
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
If that was one of our defenders pulling on a Liverpool players shirt in front of the Kop that pen gets given every single time and that's the issue.
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
If that was one of our defenders pulling on a Liverpool players shirt in front of the Kop that pen gets given every single time and that's the issue.
Perhaps. The Ollie one looked like he'd been taking lessons from Kane on England duty, plants his leg so there cant be anything but contact. But yes, I take the point that its inconsistent and irritating because of it. But none of them pens for me.
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I agree. And I'm more disappointed about our concession of goals from our attacks and our inability to test Kwee-veen Kell-e-her more than a couple of headers from corners.
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
If that was one of our defenders pulling on a Liverpool players shirt in front of the Kop that pen gets given every single time and that's the issue.
Yep that's exactly the point I was making. If we get rid of shirt pulling it will stop that.
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I didn't think it was a pen either, any of them.
If that was one of our defenders pulling on a Liverpool players shirt in front of the Kop that pen gets given every single time and that's the issue.
Perhaps. The Ollie one looked like he'd been taking lessons from Kane on England duty, plants his leg so there cant be anything but contact. But yes, I take the point that its inconsistent and irritating because of it. But none of them pens for me.
Ollies dive was ridiculous and so unlike him. He seems like a different player since his wonder strike at the Euros and not for the better. The pull on Pau's shirt is a penalty in my opinion. We would get the foul if it was anywhere else on the pitch hence i think it's a pen.
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There is consistent inconsistency, I'd bet you could watch footage of every single PL game this weekend where there is shirt pulling at corners going unpunished that would be penalised elsewhere on the pitch. I'm pretty comfortable for the refs to decide what is excessive and what not.
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The contact with Ollie was probably enough for a penalty in my opinion, but his theatrics almost assured it wasn't going to get given. No ref wants to feel like he's being conned, and that's what it looked like with him going down in that over the top manner.
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Steve Hunt scored against Watford, I was one of the 12k or so watching.
Thanks for the reminder, I was at all those three, well all the home games as a 13 year old season ticket holder. Child cruelty but self inflicted as went with my mates
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The Torres one either stops the set piece and has it ordered to be taken again, or it's an extremely straightforward foul in the penalty area. It was incredibly obvious for me.
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Steve Hunt scored against Watford, I was one of the 12k or so watching.
Thanks for the reminder, I was at all those three, well all the home games as a 13 year old season ticket holder. Child cruelty but self inflicted as went with my mates
We did all three as well, me and our kid, he was 18 and I was ten.
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Steve Hunt scored against Watford, I was one of the 12k or so watching.
Thanks for the reminder, I was at all those three, well all the home games as a 13 year old season ticket holder. Child cruelty but self inflicted as went with my mates
We did all three as well, me and our kid, he was 18 and I was ten.
We were obviously very shit that season and the preceding couple of years, but I thought we had some good players, I have a lot more affinity with a lot of that team, than the 2015/16 mob.
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Steve Hunt scored against Watford, I was one of the 12k or so watching.
Thanks for the reminder, I was at all those three, well all the home games as a 13 year old season ticket holder. Child cruelty but self inflicted as went with my mates
We did all three as well, me and our kid, he was 18 and I was ten.
We were obviously very shit that season and the preceding couple of years, but I thought we had some good players, I have a lot more affinity with a lot of that team, than the 2015/16 mob.
Very bad managers and an absolute bellend for a chairman.
Which actually fits for both relegations.
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If the video circulating on twitter is real, I don't think David Coote will be refereeing any Liverpool games, or any other games for that matter, in the future.
Still doesn't explain his general poor performance towards both them AND us on Saturday though.
EDIT: Adding link to some recognised media:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/11/david-coote-referee-appears-rant-jurgen-klopp-liverpool/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/david-coote-liverpool-premier-league-34083739
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Still doesn't explain what the VAR officials were doing or not doing as the case is.
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Don't really have much of a problem with any of Saturday's decisions tbh. The shirt pull was only after a Villa player had done it first and either of the Watkins or Torres ones would have been incredibly soft.
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The "empire of the kop" reporting it decided he doesn't like Liverpool because he apparently waved "no foul" for Bailey's challenge (more then likely waving play on as they were three against Emi) and then moaned because he was the VAR for the foul of Pickford on Van Djik (even though Van Djik was offside) so no foul could be given when he did his ACL in. Weird how much that was being marked as foul and no commentator moaned when Ben Mee does the exact same tackle multiple times.
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If the video circulating on twitter is real, I don't think David Coote will be refereeing any Liverpool games, or any other games for that matter, in the future.
Still doesn't explain his general poor performance towards both them AND us on Saturday though.
EDIT: Adding link to some recognised media:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/11/david-coote-referee-appears-rant-jurgen-klopp-liverpool/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/david-coote-liverpool-premier-league-34083739
No need to reference his nationality, that's the sign of a wanker.
Which is a shame as otherwise he was spot on, Klopp was a ******.
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Don't really have much of a problem with any of Saturday's decisions tbh. The shirt pull was only after a Villa player had done it first and either of the Watkins or Torres ones would have been incredibly soft.
Don't get the latter at all. It's a very straightforward shirt pull. Halfway line it's a foul and a yellow!
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Still doesn't explain what the VAR officials were doing or not doing as the case is.
It was Stuart Attwell I believe. If so, that's all the explanation necessary! More mistakes as VAR than any other apparently.
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Still doesn't explain what the VAR officials were doing or not doing as the case is.
It was Stuart Attwell I believe. If so, that's all the explanation necessary! More mistakes as VAR than any other apparently.
I wouldn't task either of them with more than delivering papers
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Still doesn't explain what the VAR officials were doing or not doing as the case is.
It was Stuart Attwell I believe. If so, that's all the explanation necessary! More mistakes as VAR than any other apparently.
As I’ve stated several times pretty sure he’s a Cov fan who hates Villa!
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Thought Tierney was VAR?
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The contact with Ollie was probably enough for a penalty in my opinion, but his theatrics almost assured it wasn't going to get given. No ref wants to feel like he's being conned, and that's what it looked like with him going down in that over the top manner.
As with the West Ham game against us
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Thought Tierney was VAR?
That’s what they said on commentary.
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Just watched Sky's Ref Watch re the 'foul' on Pau and as expected they all reckon no pen, which of course is nonsense, if the exact situation had been reversed and Liverpool were claiming a pen, would the ref have given it, of course he would and would VAR have backed him up, of course they would.
The 14 managers/ head coaches of the non SKY 6 clubs should get together, ASAP and arrange a meeting with The Referee Association, to demand that any shirt pulling, even for a second, is a pen. We've gotta to a stop to this nonsene.
Out of interest what possible reason did they give that it wasn’t a penalty?
Either the tape is fake or
Shirt pulling is no longer a foul
Which?
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Didnt lesta get a penalty for a shirt pull on Vardy?
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I'm genuinely surprised by how many on here were happy with the ref's decision to not give a penalty for the shirt pull on Pau. The very notion that it "wasn't sustained pulling of the shirt therefore no penalty" is ludicrous. What about other fouls are the ref's going to be given licence to judge the extent of a foul? "he did kick him but not hard enough to break his leg" or "he was offside but not enough offside" or "he did elbow him in the face but not hard enough to knock his teeth out or break his nose" It just feels wrong and it feels like another situation where they gave the referee leeway to not give a penalty to an away team in front of the mighty Kop where the amazing reds fans gather and share hilarious stories because they are all comedians and the salt of the earth.
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Thought Tierney was VAR?
That’s what they said on commentary.
Thought Tierney was VAR?
Really? He was always injured for Arsenal, good to see that he's still able to make a career in football.
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Thought Tierney was VAR?
That’s what they said on commentary.
Thought Tierney was VAR?
Really? He was always injured for Arsenal, good to see that he's still able to make a career in football.
He was injured, in both eyes.
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I'm genuinely surprised by how many on here were happy with the ref's decision to not give a penalty for the shirt pull on Pau. The very notion that it "wasn't sustained pulling of the shirt therefore no penalty" is ludicrous. What about other fouls are the ref's going to be given licence to judge the extent of a foul? "he did kick him but not hard enough to break his leg" or "he was offside but not enough offside" or "he did elbow him in the face but not hard enough to knock his teeth out or break his nose" It just feels wrong and it feels like another situation where they gave the referee leeway to not give a penalty to an away team in front of the mighty Kop where the amazing reds fans gather and share hilarious stories because they are all comedians and the salt of the earth.
Indeed why give the refs latitude to not apply the law? The Vardy one was a shorter time period.
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If they start giving pens for shirt pulling etc on corners / dead balls then we are in for 5-10 penalties per game which isn't really a direction i'd want to go down . In the Wolves game McGinn / Dawson were basically playing rugby at every corner and the Ref just let it all go
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Former Liverpool star Michael Owen has admitted to being “astonished” by David Coote’s decision not to award Aston Villa a “blatant’ penalty in their 2-0 defeat to the Reds on Saturday.
“It’s a penalty, you can’t do that. There’s just a blatant pull, Pau Torres is there at the front post, gets dragged out of that area with a shirt pull".
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If they start giving pens for shirt pulling etc on corners / dead balls then we are in for 5-10 penalties per game which isn't really a direction i'd want to go down . In the Wolves game McGinn / Dawson were basically playing rugby at every corner and the Ref just let it all go
Just apply the rules properly and consistently and the players will learn. There wouldn't be 5/10 penalties because after the first one is given even thick as pig shit footballers would learn their lesson.
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I'm genuinely surprised by how many on here were happy with the ref's decision to not give a penalty for the shirt pull on Pau. The very notion that it "wasn't sustained pulling of the shirt therefore no penalty" is ludicrous. What about other fouls are the ref's going to be given licence to judge the extent of a foul? "he did kick him but not hard enough to break his leg" or "he was offside but not enough offside" or "he did elbow him in the face but not hard enough to knock his teeth out or break his nose" It just feels wrong and it feels like another situation where they gave the referee leeway to not give a penalty to an away team in front of the mighty Kop where the amazing reds fans gather and share hilarious stories because they are all comedians and the salt of the earth.
This is my main dissatisfaction with football at the moment - the fact that so many laws of the game are subjective and open to interpretation. When you add VAR into the mix, that’s just more people having an opinion on the same incident - more layers of subjectivity. If the law about shirt pulling was black and white then whether or not a penalty is given wouldn’t depend on someone’s interpretation of ‘sustained’. It’s the same with the ‘interfering with play’ issue in relation to offsides.
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I'm genuinely surprised by how many on here were happy with the ref's decision to not give a penalty for the shirt pull on Pau. The very notion that it "wasn't sustained pulling of the shirt therefore no penalty" is ludicrous. What about other fouls are the ref's going to be given licence to judge the extent of a foul? "he did kick him but not hard enough to break his leg" or "he was offside but not enough offside" or "he did elbow him in the face but not hard enough to knock his teeth out or break his nose" It just feels wrong and it feels like another situation where they gave the referee leeway to not give a penalty to an away team in front of the mighty Kop where the amazing reds fans gather and share hilarious stories because they are all comedians and the salt of the earth.
This is my main dissatisfaction with football at the moment - the fact that so many laws of the game are subjective and open to interpretation. When you add VAR into the mix, that’s just more people having an opinion on the same incident - more layers of subjectivity. If the law about shirt pulling was black and white then whether or not a penalty is given wouldn’t depend on someone’s interpretation of ‘sustained’. It’s the same with the ‘interfering with play’ issue in relation to offsides.
All the above has been introduced so that results can be influenced more . Pretty obvious to me
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Former Liverpool star Michael Owen has admitted to being “astonished” by David Coote’s decision not to award Aston Villa a “blatant’ penalty in their 2-0 defeat to the Reds on Saturday.
“It’s a penalty, you can’t do that. There’s just a blatant pull, Pau Torres is there at the front post, gets dragged out of that area with a shirt pull".
Imagine Michael Owen actually being correct about something :-) how a huge shirt pull stopping a player getting to EXAXTLY where the ball went wasn’t a foul is dreadful…perhaps Coote thinks about Spaniards as he does Germans…
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PGMOL needs a complete clear out from top to bottom.
It may take years but the Premier League should be aiming for the elite in refereeing.
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PGMOL needs a complete clear out from top to bottom.
It may take years but the Premier League should be aiming for the elite in refereeing.
Agreed.
Maybe import them all from Europe. On the whole the elite refs in Europe are just that.
Ours are all consumed with their own egos and wanting to be star of the show.
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If they start giving pens for shirt pulling etc on corners / dead balls then we are in for 5-10 penalties per game which isn't really a direction i'd want to go down . In the Wolves game McGinn / Dawson were basically playing rugby at every corner and the Ref just let it all go
It wasn’t some 50/50 pushing and shoving as a corner was taken. It was a shirt pull that clearly prevented Torres from getting to the ball and enabled the defender to clear it. Absolutely a penalty.
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I thought I'd give the highlights one last look on sky. Go to match highlights and they deemed not to even show the Pau incident. So I go to Ref Watch again on Sky. They show the one angle of it that doesn't actually show the shirt pull properly. The presenter was adamant it was a pen cue the two scousers and the referee Dermott Mcdermottface shooting him down and laughing. I'm not going to watch it again as the blatant media bias is really starting to piss me off and I don't wana be one of those conspiracy types.
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I thought I'd give the highlights one last look on sky. Go to match highlights and they deemed not to even show the Pau incident. So I go to Ref Watch again on Sky. They show the one angle of it that doesn't actually show the shirt pull properly. The commentator adamant it was a pen cue the two scousers and the referee Dermott Mcdermottface shooting him down and laughing. I'm not going to watch it again as the blatant media bias is really starting to piss me off and I don't wana be one of those conspiracy types.
Almost as if he and they knew he was about to be put under the microscope
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If they start giving pens for shirt pulling etc on corners / dead balls then we are in for 5-10 penalties per game which isn't really a direction i'd want to go down . In the Wolves game McGinn / Dawson were basically playing rugby at every corner and the Ref just let it all go
It wasn’t some 50/50 pushing and shoving as a corner was taken. It was a shirt pull that clearly prevented Torres from getting to the ball and enabled the defender to clear it. Absolutely a penalty.
so WHY was it not given
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I thought I'd give the highlights one last look on sky. Go to match highlights and they deemed not to even show the Pau incident. So I go to Ref Watch again on Sky. They show the one angle of it that doesn't actually show the shirt pull properly. The presenter was adamant it was a pen cue the two scousers and the referee Dermott Mcdermottface shooting him down and laughing. I'm not going to watch it again as the blatant media bias is really starting to piss me off and I don't wana be one of those conspiracy types.
Did you watch the short 3 minute version or the extended highlights? They’re available on my telly on a Monday. The show last 26 minutes so you might have better luck with that.
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If they start giving pens for shirt pulling etc on corners / dead balls then we are in for 5-10 penalties per game which isn't really a direction i'd want to go down . In the Wolves game McGinn / Dawson were basically playing rugby at every corner and the Ref just let it all go
It wasn’t some 50/50 pushing and shoving as a corner was taken. It was a shirt pull that clearly prevented Torres from getting to the ball and enabled the defender to clear it. Absolutely a penalty.
so WHY was it not given
In the first 5 minutes Carlos had a VAR check for holding in the penalty area. So I knew that they would not give the Torres decision.
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I thought I'd give the highlights one last look on sky. Go to match highlights and they deemed not to even show the Pau incident. So I go to Ref Watch again on Sky. They show the one angle of it that doesn't actually show the shirt pull properly. The presenter was adamant it was a pen cue the two scousers and the referee Dermott Mcdermottface shooting him down and laughing. I'm not going to watch it again as the blatant media bias is really starting to piss me off and I don't wana be one of those conspiracy types.
Did you watch the short 3 minute version or the extended highlights? They’re available on my telly on a Monday. The show last 26 minutes so you might have better luck with that.
Thanks mate but i could only stomach the 3 minute highlights tbh. But the potential penalty for the shirt pull was surely worthy of being included.
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I don't know about anyone else but I turn the volume off as soon as they go I to the "you'll never walk alone" wankfest. It sickening to listen to.
The condescending commentator on TNT was complaining about Martinez taking his time from the start of the game. He also said, something along the lines of, "Martinez, who calls himself the world's best goalkeeper".
As for the penalty, Torres was in front of the defender & getting to the cross until the defender pulled him back & then cleared the ball. There's no chance they'd cancel the Salah goal & go back to give a penalty no matter how blatant.
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yeah the commentator was clearly a red . He was almost shouting at Martinez in the first few minutes about time wasting . Awful commentary
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I don't know about anyone else but I turn the volume off as soon as they go I to the "you'll never walk alone" wankfest. It sickening to listen to.
The condescending commentator on TNT was complaining about Martinez taking his time from the start of the game. He also said, something along the lines of, "Martinez, who calls himself the world's best goalkeeper".
As for the penalty, Torres was in front of the defender & getting to the cross until the defender pulled him back & then cleared the ball. There's no chance they'd cancel the Salah goal & go back to give a penalty no matter how blatant.
He was an absolute knob all game, at that point he was wobbling on that 'the ref needs to get a grip of this so early in the game', like we were time wasting and not trying to suck them in and play through them, ignorant prick.
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Darren Fletcher is a Forest fan but like a lot the media, but fell into the trap of almost speaking on behalf of Liverpool fans. To be honest it's classic TNT, jingoistic and embarrassing with their European coverage, unprofessional with their domestic coverage.
It's not a conspiracy against us it's just a really poor way of commentating on a game when you are supposed to be neutral, and their is no counter view from anywhere.....
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I'm on the verge of giving up my Sky subscription and giving it all up to BT/TNT, this is making me pause, though at the end of the day I daresay the coverage and in particular the commentating these days is equally nauseating whichever broadcaster it comes from.
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Sky just as bad , for Liverpool games they wheel out Kelly Dalglish, Sturbridge , Redknapp and Carragher on co-comms, it's bacically LTV
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Sky just as bad , for Liverpool games they wheel out Kelly Dalglish, Sturbridge , Redknapp and Carragher on co-comms, it's bacically LTV
Kenny Dalglish’s daughter, can’t recall her surname, is actually a really good presenter and is the main anchor for a lot of sky games, not just the Liverpool games. Same with Redknapp and Carragher in terms of being pundits for a lot of non Liverpool games. The question is more why they don’t have pundits who played for a wider range of clubs.
In terms of commentators, it seems to me its a bit of a lost art really. Oh the for the days of Barry Davies and even Tony blooming Gubba. Most of this current lot are fawning, sensationalist and on many occasions uninformed, but I guess thats what the broadcasters want.