Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Bad English on August 17, 2024, 07:28:00 PM
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FTF!
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Super win on the opening day.
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Good result. Our squad is looking tasty.
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Good anxiety training for the CL knockout rounds..
Had to be Duran, just had to be.
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Great result. Onana was magnificent. And all hail the Panda.
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FUCKING YES !!!!
Wonderful performance
Duran goes nowhere and I love the look of Maatsen
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You fucking beauty.
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It appears that Emery knows something about timing a pre-season build up, after all. :D
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Disappointed that we didn't get 3 but great start.
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
ONANA motm fantastic
Jhon was great
Maatsen was excellent
Despite a freebie pen from the ref
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After a really shit week, that has made me smile. UTFV.
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Onana is a fucking beast.
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Wasn’t expecting us to be that good, thought we played very well overall and should have scored a few more.
The subs were very good and a great move for the winner with them all involved. I thought it was a very encouraging performance.
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Jhonathan Ephraim Aethelbert Wingus Duran. You might be a maniac, but you're our maniac.
Extremely tough, good side West Ham, I get the feeling winning there will look like a really excellent result as the season develops.
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That’ll do.
Onana is a beast
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Excellent, excellent result at a place we have struggled. Unai banishes another villa bogey!
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Saint Unai. That's all I have to say.
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Keeps us 4th.
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Would have been the biggest miscarriage of justice since OJ if we hadn't won that. They had a few spells, but they've got some decent players so you'd expect that. Generally, though, we twatted them and they're lucky to have lost by one.
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Torres Onana and Youri were outstanding.
Maatsen Ramsey and Duran very good off the bench - defo stepped up a gear.
Very pleased - not a happy hunting ground.
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Thank fuck it is over; I desperately need to break the seal.
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Away win on the opening day. Love it.
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Impressed. That is all.
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Would have been the biggest miscarriage of justice since Green Lantern didn't win a load of Oscars if we hadn't won that, they had a few spells, but they've got some decent players so you'd expect that. Generally, though, we twatted them and they're lucky to have lost by one.
FTFY
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What a win and performance. I predicted a loss before the game...what a tw@t.
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A better opening day than twelve months ago...
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Would have been the biggest miscarriage of justice since OJ if we hadn't won that. They had a few spells, but they've got some decent players so you'd expect that. Generally, though, we twatted them and they're lucky to have lost by one.
I think its a good time to play them as it will take a while for them to gel but they look better than under Moyes, and they were pretty good under him to be fair.
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We made 5 subs there and we still had Barkley and Buendia as options on the bench, as well as Barracuda and Iling-Junior to come into contention. Exciting times!
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We’ve got a Panda
We’ve got a Panda
You ain’t
You ain’t
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With the penalty so soft but don't mind as long as they are given every week in other games
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So much for our pre season wobbles
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And Tim has a new pet hate after Luiz
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Getting maximum points away to this lot is very good indeed. I thought Tielemans looked exceptionally sharp and just edged it for MOTM!
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The 39% who felt Villa would lose need more faith !!
Bring on Arsenal next week. Win that and they’ll be more of us thinking be challenging for the league !
And tonight really could have 4 or 5 goals!
Tielemans is complete class.
Bailey and Watkins a little rusty but that’s a brilliant squad we have and completely deserved the win and thought we would win!
This is gonna be special trophy winning season I can feel it !!
Up The Villa!
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Get right back sorted and my tenner placed on Wednesday for the title is a banker... Maatsen looks brilliant, JJ is getting back slowly, love Rogers, Torres was outstanding and the big man looks like he's been playing for us for years. What a season to look forward too.
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Well that was an excellent performance, that I didn’t expect. Should have scored many more, but that second was brilliant. Lots of excellent displays but superb cameo by Duran and what a start by Onana - fantastic.
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Great win, better team by miles but it seemed like one of those days where we wouldn't make all our opportunities count. Rode our luck at end but deserved three points. Serious impact off bench with Duran, Ramsey and Maatsen.
Martinez 7 - got blocked off at one corner but solid apart from that
Cash 6 - wronged for the penalty, still too fond of getting too tight for me and Kuddus caused problems
Konsa 7 - solid enough
Torres 8 - excellent with the ball
Digne 7 (Maatsen 8) - Digne was solid again but Maatsen looked different level when he came in
Onana 8 - fine debut, strong in both boxes and tidy on the ball
Tielemans 6 - armchair ride for him in the first half but much quieter after break
Bailey 6 - started very sharp but missed an absolute sitter, knocked his confidence a bit
McGinn 6 (Ramsey 7) - strangely taken off so early after a strong first half, Ramsey looked sharp and nice assist
Rogers 7 - strong performance but missed a howler really. Much better in that position, if he gets turned on the ball he isn't being stopped
Watkins 5 (Duran 8) - Ollie was not match fit at all, Duran transformed us I thought and got the winner
Kostas and Jaden - both a bit nervy to start with but settled into it. We have a strong squad when likes of Buendia and Barkley aren't called upon. Emery got team selection and subs spot on.
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They all played well. That's a great result.
I was confused at first as Hammers kit is identical to the one that Villa wore in the sixties, when I first saw them. It brings back so many memories.
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I love Captain Chaos. I hope we keep him. I thought aside from his usual bull in a China shop carnage he also played with discipline and good hold-up play when needed. You have to take the silliness and nonsense with a player like him. It's like aggressive players, if you try and chip away too many rough edges you probably lose what they're great at.
That was a good opening win. Ridiculous penalty decision for me. We will hopefully work on putting away our chances as Rogers could have had a couple today and Duran should have buried his first sniff at goal. It should have been more comfortable than it was in all honesty.
Excellent debut from Onana. Pau was excellent.
Nedeljkovic was very nervous but understandable. We'll have to bed him in slowly. I do worry about that side if we get injuries.
We had a bench where Barkley and Buendia couldn't come on today. Options look good at the moment. We still have Kamara and Mings to come back too.
Man of the match was probably a toss-up between Onana and Duran. The latter I just think turned the game at a point where West Ham were threatening to take control. Amadou, however, was excellent throughout in fairness.
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As Tim isn't here: Archer would have scored 3.
I did think it was a pen at first as I didn't realise Cash got a touch but he did and enough in my opinion. Will be interesting to see just how wrong the ref has to be now for it to be overturned.
Strength in depth showed today, deserved win.
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Great start.
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Terrific overall performance. We deserved the win. Unai got the subs absolutely spot on. Onana is already a cult hero. Maatsen looks fantastic down that left, Ramsey was back to his usual best. Cash is a liability but played well second half. Brilliant to win awayI'm staying here said Jhon Duran, with form like that, I bloody well hope so.
Onana getting interviewed, seems a lovely chap.
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Great result..Very happy.
Could not watch the game. Does not matter now.
Good WE everyone
UTv
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Onana. Absolutely love him.
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Brilliant - unexpectedly so. Need to be more clinical, but excellent performance. Onana was sensational. JD put it in a proper centre forward display.
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Great interview with the Big Guy on Sky.
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Great result. Duran continues to be absolute box office and I’m glad we’ve kept him.
That bench… Kamara, Mings and more to come. If we can avoid the injuries of last season Unai has so many options. Hopefully some kinder draws in the cups and we can go deep somewhere this season.
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Just popped it to say good evening and FUCKING YESSSSS
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Incidentally, the second goal was brilliant. Not just the finish, but the initial pass from Pau, then two perfect first-time touches.
If that's not in the ten best goals we score this season, we'll be in for a treat.
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Well, that was pretty great, wasn’t it? UTV
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Nice of their manager to move Kudos to the other side where he didn’t get a sniff after giving Cash a real tough afternoon.
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Good win, albeit frustrating about the penalty & VAR.
I will say one thing about that & then the positives, the pen was a bullshit call. Absolute garbage. So to then have VAR not overrule it because they "want to stay more with on-field decisions" means that VAR can fucking do one & should be cancelled. What is the fucking point of it if they don't want to undermine the refs decisions?!? It's either a fucking pen or it isn't.
And today fucking wasn't. No matter how much the media has been told to suck off the shitty decisions of crap officials.
But fuck them & their efforts to control the games.
Great to see the youngsters come on & make a big difference. Great to see Onana show his strengths & ability on the ball, while scoring a goal. Maatson made a difference. Ramsey looked bright. Duran was really good, scored a goal & made the nice gesture to the fans that he was staying. Rogers looked bright running forward. He's a beast on the ball. And I really thought that Tielemans played really well.
Some fantastic options to have from the bench. And the age of team cant have been this low for years. With the ability they have currently, & the potential they all have to grow together, its difficult not to be excited about the future.
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Nice of their manager to move Kudos to the other side where he didn’t get a sniff after giving Cash a real tough afternoon.
There was a moment where Kudus was walking off the pitch thinking he got subbed and I let out a massive sigh of relief. Sadly he wasn't but thankfully after the switch, Maatsen pocketed him.
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Incidentally, the second goal was brilliant. Not just the finish, but the initial pass from Pau, then two perfect first-time touches.
If that's not in the ten best goals we score this season, we'll be in for a treat.
Yep it was so slick, and given it’s the first competitive game it’s even more impressive.
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So glad Duran is staying.
He is going to be a superstar.
Onana I thought might have a risky buy.
But I was so wrong. How does he speak such perfect English?
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It's a great win.
Thought with 20 minutes left it was fizzling out to the usual 1-1 down there but we did what top teams do and stepped it up and got a deserved win.
Great that all three subs stepped up to combine for the winner. Think Maatsen is going to be a great LB for us. He makes the same runs that Digne and Moreno do but he has that extra yard of pace that is so crucial at the top level.
That was a statement win and shows the panic in pre season was greatly exaggerated as we looked as good as we did for all of last season especially in midfield.
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Thank you Villa for a great start to the new season.
Fairy tale start for Onana and JD just had to score didn't he?
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After hearing so much this last week or two from West Ham fans claiming they were going to make a serious challenge on the top 6 I was expecting so much more from them. They were poor and we never looked in any real trouble. We really should have been 4 or 5 up at half time but for unusually poor finishing.
Cash had a tough day but other than that West Ham never really troubled us. It looks like the ghost of Moyes still hangs over them, some good wing play then lump it into the box. As performances go, that's about as comfortable as we could have hoped for.
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Did not expect that.
Unai taught us all a lesson today. This is NOT the Aston Villa of old.
Week 1 - Already 2pts up on the same fixture last season.
Apart from that team’s core - Emi, Torres, Konsa, Youri and Onana… we finished with both wings and the attacking end filled with 6 kids.
We’ll win something this season. Not sure what, but it’s coming.
Absolutely brilliant result. UTV
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Not particularly from this game, but I always thought Fulkrug was a mad signing at that price and on that length deal. I think they’ll regret signing him, even in that short display he looked very static.
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Forgot how stressful watching us is. The second goal was beautiful, 4 left footers in a row.
Onana looked a beast.
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Did not expect that.
Unai taught us all a lesson today. This is NOT the Aston Villa of old.
Week 1 - Already 2pts up on the same fixture last season.
Apart from that team’s core - Emi, Torres, Konsa, Youri and Onana… we finished with both wings and the attacking end filled with 6 kids.
We’ll win something this season. Not sure what, but it’s coming.
Absolutely brilliant result. UTV
3 points. Do keep up.
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I’m pretty sure Lopetegi had the hex over Unai didn’t he ? Both here and in Spain.
Not anymore sucker !!
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Really, really, really enjoyed that winner.
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I think most of the campsite knew we had scored.
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Not particularly from this game, but I always thought Fulkrug was a mad signing at that price and on that length deal. I think they’ll regret signing him, even in that short display he looked very static.
Their new midfielder next to Soucek hardly had a kick. Both full backs are very average too. Wouldn't be surprised if West Ham struggled this season. It isn't like Emery taking over from Gerrard when everything was a mess. They were solid if a bit dull under Moyes, they were wide open on the counters today.
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Yet another win in London, and one that we fully deserved.
Very encouraging given that not all of our players are fully up to speed. Bodes well for the rest of the season.
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Martinez and defence- apart from dodgy pen deserved a clean sheet.
Torres- outstanding and my MOTM
Tielemans and Onana fantastic
Watkins will get better
Tactics and subs just tremendous
Only negative was wasteful finishing...we will twat a few this season.
Strength on the bench incredible
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Feed the Panda he will score !
Get in
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Tielemans played his role as the midfield maestro brilliantly; aided by his international partner superbly. Ramsey and Maatsen looked class, Rogers seems to have become so very comfortable at this level and played some great stuff.
@Tom123 said above that Duran seems to have found some composure and teamplay in his game: yes, he certainly played the target man really well and took his goal so naturally: a high potential in that boy!
McGinn looked a little lost, I thought, and his replacement came as no surprise.
Bailey faded after a bright start, and his need for a little love after being challenged is wearisome. His replacement, Philogene, was weak and often made the wrong choices (tryin to play out from deep, for example) but he will undoubtedly find his feet and add something to the game overall.
I thought, during the game, that Cash was having a mare: on reflection, he was up against a very tricky player and - by and large - dealt wit him. I do wonder, though, how many penalties he's conceded in a Villa shirt? - he does seem to be the fallguy for opponents' penalties even if today that 'foul' would not have been awarded anywhere else on the pitch. Nedeljkovic was nervous and came on at a difficult time in the game: I think he'll mature quickly and become first-pick by the end of the season.
What a fine start to the season!
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Completely controlled it apart from 20 minutes in the middle. Brilliant subs. Madness from Duran. Tielemans and Onana share MOTM.
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Good win, albeit frustrating about the penalty & VAR.
I will say one thing about that & then the positives, the pen was a bullshit call. Absolute garbage. So to then have VAR not overrule it because they "want to stay more with on-field decisions" means that VAR can fucking do one & should be cancelled. What is the fucking point of it if they don't want to undermine the refs decisions?!? It's either a fucking pen or it isn't.
And today fucking wasn't. No matter how much the media has been told to suck off the shitty decisions of crap officials.
But fuck them & their efforts to control the games.
Great to see the youngsters come on & make a big difference. Great to see Onana show his strengths & ability on the ball, while scoring a goal. Maatson made a difference. Ramsey looked bright. Duran was really good, scored a goal & made the nice gesture to the fans that he was staying. Rogers looked bright running forward. He's a beast on the ball. And I really thought that Tielemans played really well.
Some fantastic options to have from the bench. And the age of team cant have been this low for years. With the ability they have currently, & the potential they all have to grow together, its difficult not to be excited about the future.
What I didn't understand is why VAR didn't say to the ref to have a look at it on the monitor especially as it looked like he didn't get the brest view of it. Or are they not even doing that any more as part of this directive?
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So glad Duran is staying.
He is going to be a superstar.
Onana I thought might have a risky buy.
But I was so wrong. How does he speak such perfect English?
Speaks five languages apparently and has asked Unai to coach him in Spanish as he wants to learn that as well. Smart guy.
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Not particularly from this game, but I always thought Fulkrug was a mad signing at that price and on that length deal. I think they’ll regret signing him, even in that short display he looked very static.
Not saying you’re wrong but it’s a bit harsh to judge him on todays game as he got no service at all coming in as a sub.
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https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1824880376411742456
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Week 1 - Already 2pts up on the same fixture last season.
3 points. Do keep up.
Read Nii's comment again.
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That's why Duran was £40m. If he listens to Emery he'll be £60m by this time next year
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Wouldn't be surprised if West Ham struggled this season. It isn't like Emery taking over from Gerrard when everything was a mess. They were solid if a bit dull under Moyes, they were wide open on the counters today.
This was their first game and were trying to integrate a number of players so I think they will get a lot better. Having said that, Paqueta looked largely ineffective and uninterested; the game passed Soucek by for large parts and starting with the anonymous Antonio seemed bizarre to me.
We played them at the rigth time in the season.
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Week 1 - Already 2pts up on the same fixture last season.
3 points. Do keep up.
Read Nii's comment again.
Indeed. I thought he meant Newcastle game.
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That winner was a thing of beauty, four Villa players one touch , all with their left peg.
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But West Ham’s recruitment has been so impressive
Our first eleven is not as strong
Blah blah blah
Great performance great result
Believe in SUE
UTV
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The analysis after the game is absolutely correct, why rush to leave Villa in the champions league under Emery when you're only 20.
You might want a bit more game time in the here and now, but you'll be so much better off in the long run.
Edit: thought I was in the Duran topic.
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This was their first game and were trying to integrate a number of players so I think they will get a lot better. Having said that, Paqueta looked largely ineffective and uninterested; the game passed Soucek by for large parts and starting with the anonymous Antonio seemed bizarre to me.
We played them at the rigth time in the season.
Agree. I can't see them troubling the top 4 but I think they'll get better as the weeks go by. A good time to play them on opening day.
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Great debut from Onana and Tielemans was awesome replacing...er...what's that fella's name that played CM last season, Luis or something :)
Gone but not forgotten !
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Best Saturday evening performance seen in that stadium since Farah, Ennis, & Rutherford all won Gold.
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Villa Boys you was very impressive today, So many MOTM to choose from Torres , Tielemans and Onana.
But a lot of respect today to Duran, That guy changed the game today, He made that ball stick to him up top and brought a lot of players into the game,
I really do think if Duran was playing for the spammers today it would be a whole different game.
Thank You Villa for making this a another great weekend.
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Not sure I’ve ever seen a player so happy to play for us than Anana.
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Not sure I’ve ever seen a player so happy to play for us than Anana.
Is he related to Onana?
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I thought Onana looked impressive - Maatasoon looks great too.
I still think we could do with another defender and forward if FFP allows, but that was a great result, and we played some excellent football at times.
Was never too worried about Durans behavior - he just seems an overexcitable kid - but hes got some talent. Very pleasing evening - good result against a good team when not at our best.
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Not sure I’ve ever seen a player so happy to play for us than Anana.
Is he related to Onana?
🤭
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If our name isn't enough for the media to talk about us, so you have to rely on winning games.
They can love Newton Heath and Tottenham all they like but this will keep tipping them over.
Up The Fucking Villa.
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Onana always full of praise for Emery. His words are always positive and he's excited to see what he can achieve and what kind of player he can be under Emery's teaching. Exactly the kind of signings we should be making.
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Onana always full of praise for Emery. His words are always positive and he's excited to see what he can achieve and what kind of player he can be under Emery's teaching. Exactly the kind of signings we should be making.
Maybe he can have words with Duran to make him see sense and appreciate where he is.
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https://www.skysports.com/premier-league-highlights/video/36504/13198817/west-ham-1-2-aston-villa-premier-league-highlights
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^ It sounds like, and looked like, Duran has accepted where he is, for now anyway. But yeah, it can't do any harm to have people like Oanan and Rogers repeatedly praising Emery and how they're developing as players under him.
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It looks like a really happy camp. We needed that with arsenal next week.
Excellent performance
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Wouldn't be surprised if West Ham struggled this season. It isn't like Emery taking over from Gerrard when everything was a mess. They were solid if a bit dull under Moyes, they were wide open on the counters today.
Paqueta looked largely ineffective and uninterested;
I disagree. Looked like he had big money on getting booked and scoring to me.
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Not sure I’ve ever seen a player so happy to play for us than Anana.
Is he related to Onana?
Haha, he’s having his worst mare since he thought the Tories handled Covid well.
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That striker west ham signed instead of duran looked pretty lame. Was anonymous
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Best Saturday evening performance seen in that stadium since Farah, Ennis, & Rutherford all won Gold.
Post of the season.
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What a day!! The Villa fans, en masse, doing the cross-armed Irons sign to the West Ham fans was brilliant.
“He stayed cos you’re shit…..”
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Total dominance with an immense performance from Onana. Another memorable season in store. Onwards and upwards.
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
So the last time we won the first game was Bournemouth away I think. Gestede scored and we know how that season ended up....just saying.
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I sensed Unai was pissed off with questions from the sky reporter going on an on about Duran.
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
So the last time we won the first game was Bournemouth away I think. Gestede scored and we know how that season ended up....just saying.
Nope. Villa 1- Sheffield Utd 0. 2020
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
So the last time we won the first game was Bournemouth away I think. Gestede scored and we know how that season ended up....just saying.
I think and olaf can correct me if im wrong i think he means away win?
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https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1824880376411742456
Class. Lucas is always there with his celebration.
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
So the last time we won the first game was Bournemouth away I think. Gestede scored and we know how that season ended up....just saying.
I think and olaf can correct me if im wrong i think he means away win? :)
Yes and I thought you were talking about just away but you didn't
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Best Saturday evening performance seen in that stadium since Farah, Ennis, & Rutherford all won Gold.
Post of the season.
Haha...love that ALITA. I was there that evening after paying a fortune for a ticket.
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Welcome back, Panda. Love you, ya mad bastard.
Up the fucking Villa!
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Great to see Rogers making great strides with the ball at his feet. Ditto JJ when he came on, the Jacob of circa 2022/23.
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Really impressed with the drive some of our players have going forwards. I thought it would be our usual 1st game struggle. We looked very good.
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Magnificent victory. Finally a win 1at game of season in PL!
So the last time we won the first game was Bournemouth away I think. Gestede scored and we know how that season ended up....just saying.
I think and olaf can correct me if im wrong i think he means away win? :)
Yes and I thought you were talking about just away but you didn't
Its just great to put another hoodoo away. Thats two in onw day for lord unai
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Doesn't he have a generally very good record in London?
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Yep. He's only lost one game, the end of season piss up at Palace. Also the only London Premier League ground he has yet to win at.
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Doesn't he have a generally very good record in London?
He does but hasnt won at west ham. I think he has won at all the london clubs now except palace?
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Emery record in London:
Played 13, won 8, drew 4, lost 1
Deduct one draw if you only want to count league games.
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He's also got a 100% record in Edinburgh if we extend the stat to include all results in British capitals. 😀
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Onana was immense and when Kamara gets fit our midfield will be in full on beast mode. When Morgan Rogers makes those direct runs straight through the middle you can sense the panic in the opposition defence. Maatsen looked superb when he came on. Onwards and upwards for the Villa boys. I fkn love our owners and I can't wait for the inevitable statue of Sir Unai Emery to appear outside the Trinity.
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Does Maatsen start next week? Digne had a decent game but Maatsen looks the real deal
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Does Maatsen start next week? Digne had a decent game but Maatsen looks the real deal
I’d be starting Digne against Arsenal.
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Emery record in London:
Played 13, won 8, drew 4, lost 1
Deduct one draw if you only want to count league games.
I believe it’s also his first win vs Julen Lopetegui. I thought I heard that when he managed Wolves that our Unai hadn’t won against him.
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Great result.
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Emery record in London:
Played 13, won 8, drew 4, lost 1
Deduct one draw if you only want to count league games.
I believe it’s also his first win vs Julen Lopetegui. I thought I heard that when he managed Wolves that our Unai hadn’t won against him.
I think I read earlier (before today’s game) he’d won something like 1 in 8.
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Does Maatsen start next week? Digne had a decent game but Maatsen looks the real deal
It's tough on Digne who's been an outstanding lb for us but Maatsen looks an amazing prospect. I would like to see Digne see out his contract and push Maatsen for the lb position. It's a win win for us.
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Just watched the highlights. Never a penalty in a million years.
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Just watched the highlights. Never a penalty in a million years.
Agreed, thankfully it didn't cost us points on this occasion.
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Is VAR the final word or not. You cannot have VAR show clearly that the defender got a touch on the ball first and then say it was close so we go with the ref. What an absolute nonsense.
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I thought VAR wasn't getting involved this year as much. Unless the decision is horrifically wrong, they're not stepping in.
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I thought VAR wasn't getting involved this year as much. Unless the decision is horrifically wrong, they're not stepping in.
It was horrifically wrong, so they should have stepped in.
The prat refereeing should be taken off the list to ref games next week n'all.
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Delighted with the win but we should have been far more comfortable. Too many gilt edged misses . That said it's a good performance overall. Onana looks a big upgrade on Luiz , clear MOTM. The defence looked largely unruffled though Cash again looks suspect. The subs made a huge impact and that depth is vital . The move for the second goal needs hanging in the louvre.
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I thought VAR wasn't getting involved this year as much. Unless the decision is horrifically wrong, they're not stepping in.
Yes this is the new deployment of VAR, but it makes a mockery of the whole thing.
Surely the focus should be on getting the decision right.
So I get the idea that if it is taking ages and multiple angles to prove that a goal should not be given then stick with the refs decision.
But when it is a clear and obvious mistake as Cash did get the ball without fouling the player then VAR should do its job and reverse the refs decision.
Idiots.
The ref was awful though out though.
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Great win given we've got a dreadful record there.
Penalty was a joke. VAR officials obviously mind readers now.
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On the penalty, VAR would never have asked the ref to go the screen. The ref guessed & VAR backed him up.
But it was a great team performance & it should have been more comfortable. We're putting together a squad that will be able to compete over a full season.
We need a right back.
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Personally, I think they should get rid of VAR, or limit it far more. Maybe just to off-sides (which will probably be automated) and handballs.
Everything else is too subjective.
Or maybe - the referee can ask to see video footage if they would like to, i.e. because they are not 100%
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VAR stuck with the referee because Cash wasn't going for the ball. That's legitimately what they said on my stream.
Anyway fuck them, we were superb throughout.
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Well if VAR wasn’t there the penalty is given so it’s kind of irrelevant.
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But VAR is there.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
- That was never a penalty
- A really good team performance and the squad strength is excellent, when you consider that Moreno, the Baron and Illing-Jr couldn't even make the bench
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But VAR is there.
I understand that, but it’s not a horrendous decision. It’s soft, but if the desire is for VAR only to intervene on the real shockers it isn’t one.
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But it wasn't a foul. Cash won the ball, then there was a tangle of legs. That doesn't get given as a foul anywhere else on the pitch. If they're not going to overturn non-fouls given as penalties, what's the point of it?
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The quality of subs coming on made an enormous impact
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First day of my holidays, got engaged and a villa win. I've had worse Saturdays
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First day of my holidays, got engaged and a villa win. I've had worse Saturdays
Congrats Ger
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I think it probably is - he gets the initial touch and then gets his legs tangled up. It’s two separate bits to me, but I understand if others see it differently. My view is it’s soft, but not a big error.
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He's also got a 100% record in Edinburgh if we extend the stat to include all results in British capitals. 😀
He has not done much in Cardiff though.
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I think it probably is - he gets the initial touch and then gets his legs tangled up. It’s two separate bits to me, but I understand if others see it differently. My view is it’s soft, but not a big error.
It's stupid from cash
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I think it probably is - he gets the initial touch and then gets his legs tangled up. It’s two separate bits to me, but I understand if others see it differently. My view is it’s soft, but not a big error.
The ball was pushed away from the spam player after the touch, so subsequent tangle not relevant
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Congrats Ger enjoy the holidays. The other part, you will learn the folly of your ways in time.
Great win.
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Not long back. Awesome win.
Away shirt debut undefeated and not cursed!
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Soucek tries desperately to make sure his legs look tangled when they aren't, he's already diving before Cash clearly gets his foot on the ball, which apparently he didn't intend to do, so they gave the pen. Anyone thinks that's not a clear error is batty. Bet we don't get given or get a few like that over turned this season. It was cowardly backing the ref on field after a poor call, with a huge dollop of home favour.
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I think it probably is - he gets the initial touch and then gets his legs tangled up. It’s two separate bits to me, but I understand if others see it differently. My view is it’s soft, but not a big error.
The ball was pushed away from the spam player after the touch, so subsequent tangle not relevant
Yeah but again that’s an entirely subjective call and if the ref thinks he’s still in a position to get to it if he’s not impeded it’s not an obvious error. Like I say it’s pretty soft, but if it’s the other way round plenty would be calling out VAR if it were overturned.
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Yeah I don't think it was a shocker of a decision or anything, one that there's no real 100% right interpretation of.
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If we had one of ours tripping over their own legs like that big pile of shite Soucek did in that incident and throughout the game I wouldn't be calling for a penalty.
I'd be ashamed that we had a 6ft 4 CM playing like a 5ft 3 waif.
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It's a challenge that natural bias makes you think it should go in your favour. If that had been at the other end most would want a penalty.
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I still can't get my head around the fact that the review showed the referee had made a wrong decision, but that decision was allowed to stand. Before very long, such a process will come under much closer scrutiny than MOTD gave it tonight.
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It wasn't a foul by Cash, therefore it shouldn't have been a penalty.
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It's a challenge that natural bias makes you think it should go in your favour. If that had been at the other end most would want a penalty.
Yup.
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Nope.
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Not a hope.
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Well yeah but that’s kind of the point - it’s fine to disagree. I can see why it’s given, you can’t and there’s clearly a split on the forum on this so it’s not that black and white to everyone watching.
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You'd like to think that even a ref as gormless as that one would have overturned it had he been called to see it on the pitchside monitor.
And it's not as if it would have needed 20/30 plays and 10 minutes of deliberation to get to the right call either.
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In any case whichever side you fall on it didn’t matter in the end, we made our dominance pay and the second goal, I suspect, will be as slick as most teams will see across the season. The level we hit today was much higher than I expected and it was brilliant to see.
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I can't believe anyone is validating it in anyway, I was stood next to Risso and was genuinely amazed when he pointed to the spot.
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I still can't get my head around the fact that the review showed the referee had made a wrong decision, but that decision was allowed to stand. Before very long, such a process will come under much closer scrutiny than MOTD gave it tonight.
It'll need a call like that going against Pep or one of the other massive wanker squad before it's inevitably changed.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
- That was never a penalty
- A really good team performance and the squad strength is excellent, when you consider that Moreno, the Baron and Illing-Jr couldn't even make the bench
Yes it should never have been a penalty. However it was a really good performance in the first half and also when the subs came on.
I know it's just an opinion, but I actually don't think the ground is the worst place in the Prem to watch though. My nomination for that would be Crystal Palace by some distance and then there is also Woodison Park. Yes you are a long way back at the Taxpayers Stadium, but you can see everything.
Elsewhere, the concourses are more spacious, and the free WiFi works well. Transport isn't that bad either considering where it is located and by car it's easy parking near Leyton tube meaning a reasonably quick getaway. Surroundings are not unpleasant either.
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Top notch performance which I really wasn’t expecting. Should have won comfortably on the balance of play but 3 points will do for now. Sterner test next week. Only hope Villa can stop the Arse winning the league for the second season running!! The 6 points they lost to us was a good part of the reason they didn’t win the league.
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I know I said I didn't want to see that West Ham bloke again whose clips have been linked on here but I wouldn't mind seeing his reaction to the Duran goal considering he wanted him so badly.
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Amongst many positives the intensity, energy, knowledge of the game plan was very evident today. We all looked at the pre season games and some/many including me were a little concerned at the lack of movement, desire and cohesion. Yet today was precisely the opposite of all of that. We should have smashed West Ham for 5 or 6 today.
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When we casually threw on a ~40m left back I did find myself thinking our squad has come on a long old way in a short amount of time.
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I can't believe anyone is validating it in anyway, I was stood next to Risso and was genuinely amazed when he pointed to the spot.
That’s Risso for you!
Joking aside, The Ref, Sky,Billy Bonds, Trevor Brooking and Clyde Best thought it was never a pen.
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Thought the pitch looked suitable for American Grid Iron.
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Fantastic result. I thought we were excellent first half.. Second half got a bit scrappy at times but our quality showed in the end and it was always going to be Duran wasn't it, although he should have scored before he did. Oh, and it was never a penalty, such a ridiculous decison.
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Bit of a statement, that win.
Other than the 20 or so minutes after the peno, we absolutely battered them and with a bit more conviction in front of goal, would have won at a canter.
Onana and Tielemans had control of the midfield for 70+ minutes - they look very good together.
Rogers carried the ball superbly from the deep 10 position, but needs to stick his foot through the ball in front of goal from time to time.
Ramsey looked very much on form and linked up well with Torres and with Maatesen when he came on.
Only negatives were that Ollie looked off the pace (presumably just a fitness thing) and that we looked severely weakened by the arrival of Ned and Philogene on the right (as important as it was to give them minutes).
Oh yes, and so much quality couldn't even get on the park, not to mention whatever we may decide to bring in by the end of the window. Bodes well.
UTV!
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
I thought Pacquets was suspended, has he appealed on can play until it’s heard or have I missed some news?
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Fabulous win this, we looked superb I can’t remember a better debut than Onana’s. All round we looked really good and confident. It’s great to be back
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Were they Blubbing Bubbles when Duran scored?
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
I thought Pacquets was suspended, has he appealed on can play until it’s heard or have I missed some news?
They reckon a decision won't be until the end of the season and that will be appealed. I know there are more important things in the world but that seems a ludicrous amount of time for it to take.
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As I said earlier, the 'foul' which was given as the penalty would not have been penalised anywhere else on the pitch because it looked like a 6-of-one; half-a-dozen type of coming together. Anyway, Konsa should have taken control: he was in a far better position to challenge Soucek rather than Cash.
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
I thought Pacquets was suspended, has he appealed on can play until it’s heard or have I missed some news?
They reckon a decision won't be until the end of the season and that will be appealed. I know there are more important things in the world but that seems a ludicrous amount of time for it to take.
Or a cop out. Same with 115fc. FA has no balls.
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
Nothing out of the ordinary, either for or against. After he scored though, were there chants of "He stayed cos you're shit, John Duran, he stayed.." and lots of people doing the X symbol over to the West Ham fans. Jhon then got a very good reception after the final whistle when he came over with everybody else.
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
I thought Pacquets was suspended, has he appealed on can play until it’s heard or have I missed some news?
They reckon a decision won't be until the end of the season and that will be appealed. I know there are more important things in the world but that seems a ludicrous amount of time for it to take.
His yellow card seemed another one for the dubious panel. He was quiet though as was Bowen. Kuddus and Soucek caused us problems but that was it.
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Maatsen’s cushioned pass in the lead up to the goal was a thing of beauty.
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Only saw the MOTD highlights.
What was the Villa crowd reaction to Duran when he came on?
Nothing out of the ordinary, either for or against. After he scored though, were there chants of "He stayed cos you're shit, John Duran, he stayed.." and lots of people doing the X symbol over to the West Ham fans. Jhon then got a very good reception after the final whistle when he came over with everybody else.
I liked that he got mobbed by his teammates too. Showed a positive side to things. I suspect he just needs to feel loved.
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Maatsen’s cushioned pass in the lead up to the goal was a thing of beauty.
He was brilliant when he came on. I admit I couldn't see quite why we'd paid so much money for him. Well he gave a big hint as to why yesterday. That left side with JJ is going to cause a lot of teams an awful lot of problems. West Ham just couldn't deal with them.
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Good morning H & V
What a beautiful morning ☀️☀️☀️
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Maatsen’s cushioned pass in the lead up to the goal was a thing of beauty.
He was brilliant when he came on. I admit I couldn't see quite why we'd paid so much money for him. Well he gave a big hint as to why yesterday. That left side with JJ is going to cause a lot of teams an awful lot of problems. West Ham just couldn't deal with them.
Maatsen worked also very well defensively yesterday, getting into the the attacker and closing the space where attacker could go with tidy and effective footwork and then also able to hit/take the ball in a appropriate way, opposite to our other side fullback.
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Why do people on telly in the media and on here Keep saying that Onana is a replacement for Luiz when he played in Kamara’s position the whole game yesterday, and did it very well
Tielemans played more in the Luiz position and also did it very well
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Why do people on telly in the media and on here Keep saying that Onana is a replacement for Luiz when he played in Kamara’s position the whole game yesterday, and did it very well
Tielemans played more in the Luiz position and also did it very well
Because they're incredibly lazy.
Of course, Onana is the replacement for Luiz in a way, as Doug proved not really to be the answer in the deeper role when Kamara got injured. So we've recalibrated. But that's obviously not what media types mean because, again, they're extremely lazy.
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Why do people on telly in the media and on here Keep saying that Onana is a replacement for Luiz when he played in Kamara’s position the whole game yesterday, and did it very well
Tielemans played more in the Luiz position and also did it very well
Good points. Furthermore, I guess Barkley is stand in for Tielemans, Tilemans usually have som periods during a season with small injuries tights and the like. Then might be that Kamara will compete with Onana for a place sometimes and that the Baron are there until Kamara are back.
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That was a very impressive performance.
I thought it would take us time to get going but the way we moved the ball and the speed in which we attacked was exciting.
It’s been a long time since we could bring on the talent off the bench that we have now and I think we should’ve won by a few more.
It was my first time at the taxpayers stadium and apart from the Villa support the atmosphere was flat. Speaking to a few West Ham in the pub before, the majority aren’t fans of it and I can see why.
If we can get in another central defender and maybe a replacement for Diaby this season could be on par, if not better than last season.
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Maatsen’s cushioned pass in the lead up to the goal was a thing of beauty.
He was brilliant when he came on. I admit I couldn't see quite why we'd paid so much money for him. Well he gave a big hint as to why yesterday. That left side with JJ is going to cause a lot of teams an awful lot of problems. West Ham just couldn't deal with them.
Good post. Having Maatsen in the team would allow us to move Konsa to right back as Maatsen gets forward so well. Unless we sign the Feyenoord lad. He was excellent in his cameo yesterday and i’m looking forward to seeing how he gets on. I thought Digne had a good game yesterday, but Maatsen and is even better going forward.
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I thought that was a brilliant performance yesterday and deserved the three points, couldn't tell at the time but now I have seen the penalty on the box I think it was harsh as Cash toe poked the ball away.
Duran got mild boos when he came on and he looked a handful for the West Ham defence, good finish for the winner. Onana is going to be an important player this season both in attack and defence. I thought the public transport in Stratford was great, no problem getting away.
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Why do people on telly in the media and on here Keep saying that Onana is a replacement for Luiz when he played in Kamara’s position the whole game yesterday, and did it very well
Tielemans played more in the Luiz position and also did it very well
One midfield starter out, one midfield starter in. Kamara has been out for quite a while so I think people forget that it's actually 2 midfield starters gone, and one new one in along with Tielemans.
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Judging that performance in its entirety we have improved without Luiz in the side. The whole midfield looked far more free and fluid.
Cash was very unlucky with the pen decision and how VAR didn’t, as is their way, spend another minute scrutinising the incident to ensure the correct decision was made baffled me. It’s the whole point of it. Clear and obvious you don’t need VAR. One of the camera angles clearly showed that Cash got the ball. It was a no brainer from there, but no, let’s stick with the ref’s on field decision. Ludicrous. Anyway, I think Cash, to get more favourable decisions in the future should change his name to Contactless.
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Maatsen’s cushioned pass in the lead up to the goal was a thing of beauty.
He was brilliant when he came on. I admit I couldn't see quite why we'd paid so much money for him. Well he gave a big hint as to why yesterday. That left side with JJ is going to cause a lot of teams an awful lot of problems. West Ham just couldn't deal with them.
Good post. Having Maatsen in the team would allow us to move Konsa to right back as Maatsen gets forward so well. Unless we sign the Feyenoord lad. He was excellent in his cameo yesterday and i’m looking forward to seeing how he gets on. I thought Digne had a good game yesterday, but Maatsen and is even better going forward.
I think he might be planning to use either as starters depending on the opposition in a similar way to how he rotated Digne and Moreno before the latter got injured.
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Fully deserved win, the period before the pen, was our best spell, thought we were brilliant, could easily have been 4 up. It's probably been a long time since I've seen a better debut than Onana's and a special mention to Torres, Youri, Rogers and 3 of the subs Maatsen, JJ and big Jhon.
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Must say people do say some strange things about VAR.
'Clear and obvious you don't need VAR' - the full phrase is 'clear and obvious error', so, yeah, you do need VAR, what other mechanism would there be to overturn it?
'They're saying he touched the ball but not enough?!?!?' - this has been the rule since forever, just touching the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's not a foul. Cash got a toe on it but they clearly thought Soucek would've had it under control were he not clattered. I always think back to the time Gerrard got sent off against us for an attempted crippling on George Boateng - he was protesting that he 'got the ball', which was technically true, his boot skimming the top of the thing on its way to Boateng's shin. Getting a toe on the ball isn't everything.
I thought it was harsh, but I get why they didn't overturn it, or spend years agonising over it. People complain that VAR should only be there to correct blatant mistakes, then complain that it doesn't intervene on an obviously somewhat subjective incident. The fact that people on here disagree about whether it was a penalty tells you they were right not to change whatever the on-field ref's decision happened to be. It's not perfect but it's what we've lived with in cricket for years, and I think it's pretty much the best we can do.
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Contactless. That made me chuckle.
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Good morning H & V
What a beautiful morning ☀️☀️☀️
It is indeed. Just had breakfast in the garden and now will watch the full re-run.
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Good morning H & V
What a beautiful morning ☀️☀️☀️
It is indeed. Just had breakfast in the garden and now will watch the full re-run.
I’m sitting in the garden in the Sun with a coffee and a massive cigar on
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Not particularly from this game, but I always thought Fulkrug was a mad signing at that price and on that length deal. I think they’ll regret signing him, even in that short display he looked very static.
Their new midfielder next to Soucek hardly had a kick. Both full backs are very average too. Wouldn't be surprised if West Ham struggled this season. It isn't like Emery taking over from Gerrard when everything was a mess. They were solid if a bit dull under Moyes, they were wide open on the counters today.
I thought exactly the same…not sure why people think we did well to get that result…..until the pen they were dog shit
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Must say people do say some strange things about VAR.
'Clear and obvious you don't need VAR' - the full phrase is 'clear and obvious error', so, yeah, you do need VAR, what other mechanism would there be to overturn it?
'They're saying he touched the ball but not enough?!?!?' - this has been the rule since forever, just touching the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's not a foul. Cash got a toe on it but they clearly thought Soucek would've had it under control were he not clattered. I always think back to the time Gerrard got sent off against us for an attempted crippling on George Boateng - he was protesting that he 'got the ball', which was technically true, his boot skimming the top of the thing on its way to Boateng's shin. Getting a toe on the ball isn't everything.
I thought it was harsh, but I get why they didn't overturn it, or spend years agonising over it. People complain that VAR should only be there to correct blatant mistakes, then complain that it doesn't intervene on an obviously somewhat subjective incident. The fact that people on here disagree about whether it was a penalty tells you they were right not to change whatever the on-field ref's decision happened to be. It's not perfect but it's what we've lived with in cricket for years, and I think it's pretty much the best we can do.
I think Nev has expressed this far more eloquently than I can, but the crux of the problem with VAR will always be that a big percentage of the decisions made by a referee are subjective. So another referee viewing replays isn’t very helpful.
The decisions still remain subjective, are still argued over, and take longer.
Yesterday for example ( pre VAR) the pen is given, TV replays show Cash getting a toe on the ball and some of us feel aggrieved. Game continues.
With VAR we get all the dissatisfaction of the first with an extra dollop of feeling aggrieved that it’s not looked at by the referee and/or overturned.
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
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Must say people do say some strange things about VAR.
'Clear and obvious you don't need VAR' - the full phrase is 'clear and obvious error', so, yeah, you do need VAR, what other mechanism would there be to overturn it?
'They're saying he touched the ball but not enough?!?!?' - this has been the rule since forever, just touching the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's not a foul. Cash got a toe on it but they clearly thought Soucek would've had it under control were he not clattered. I always think back to the time Gerrard got sent off against us for an attempted crippling on George Boateng - he was protesting that he 'got the ball', which was technically true, his boot skimming the top of the thing on its way to Boateng's shin. Getting a toe on the ball isn't everything.
I thought it was harsh, but I get why they didn't overturn it, or spend years agonising over it. People complain that VAR should only be there to correct blatant mistakes, then complain that it doesn't intervene on an obviously somewhat subjective incident. The fact that people on here disagree about whether it was a penalty tells you they were right not to change whatever the on-field ref's decision happened to be. It's not perfect but it's what we've lived with in cricket for years, and I think it's pretty much the best we can do.
100% agree with this. Even at 1-1 when the win was in the balance, I didn’t feel particularly aggrieved, this is not altogether related to VAR, I thought Cash was clumsy and didn’t need to make the challenge at that moment.
Overall really good performance and brilliant start to the season, total dominance for 2/3rds of the game and subs who made a massive impact.
Next Saturday will be a huge test, but exciting nonetheless.
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
That's great and his ball to Maatsen was a gem but it concerns me that he is nowhere close to a place in his national team?
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
That's great and his ball to Maatsen was a gem but it concerns me that he is nowhere close to a place in his national team?
The same was true of Sid Cowans. Not being properly recognised at International level doesn’t automatically mean you’re not a top class player. Sometimes your face just doesn’t fit. I’m far more interested in what OUR manager thinks of him.
For the record, if we maintain a top four challenge and get to the knockout stages of the Champions League, I’ll be shocked if Pau doesn’t get another call up.
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
That's great and his ball to Maatsen was a gem but it concerns me that he is nowhere close to a place in his national team?
The same was true of Sid Cowans. Not being properly recognised at International level doesn’t automatically mean you’re not a top class player. Sometimes your face just doesn’t fit. I’m far more interested in what OUR manager thinks of him.
For the record, if we maintain a top four challenge and get to the knockout stages of the Champions League, I’ll be shocked if Pau doesn’t get another call up.
Being honest I think Spain demonstrated they were a good head above everyone else in Euro 2024. Not being able to get into their squad at this moment is not a reflection on him. He would get into basically every other one, maybe except France, anywhere in the globe
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Must say people do say some strange things about VAR.
'Clear and obvious you don't need VAR' - the full phrase is 'clear and obvious error', so, yeah, you do need VAR, what other mechanism would there be to overturn it?
'They're saying he touched the ball but not enough?!?!?' - this has been the rule since forever, just touching the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's not a foul. Cash got a toe on it but they clearly thought Soucek would've had it under control were he not clattered. I always think back to the time Gerrard got sent off against us for an attempted crippling on George Boateng - he was protesting that he 'got the ball', which was technically true, his boot skimming the top of the thing on its way to Boateng's shin. Getting a toe on the ball isn't everything.
I thought it was harsh, but I get why they didn't overturn it, or spend years agonising over it. People complain that VAR should only be there to correct blatant mistakes, then complain that it doesn't intervene on an obviously somewhat subjective incident. The fact that people on here disagree about whether it was a penalty tells you they were right not to change whatever the on-field ref's decision happened to be. It's not perfect but it's what we've lived with in cricket for years, and I think it's pretty much the best we can do.
You're correct that just winning the ball doesn't mean that a foul isn't then committed, but in this case, Cash does win the ball, then Soucek puts his leg between Cash's legs, and they both fall over. Absolutely nothing Cash does could be construed as a foul, and if it isn't a foul, it isn't a penalty. It didn't look like a penalty at the game, and it sure as shit doesn't look like a penalty on the replays.
Then at Everton, in a similar situation, the referee was sent to the monitor and the decision was overturned.
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In fairness to West Ham, they did try to play out from the back a bit more yesterday but got caught a few times like we did when we first started the new way
That’s one thing we did yesterday we played out from the back beautifully, we are learning and not giving us fans heart failure anywhere near as much
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'They're saying he touched the ball but not enough?!?!?' - this has been the rule since forever, just touching the ball doesn't necessarily mean it's not a foul. Cash got a toe on it but they clearly thought Soucek would've had it under control were he not clattered...
That's not the issue here though.
On the feed Alan Smith (and I assume the other pundits) got the Stockley Park muppet said Cash didn't mean to touch the ball.
What the actual fcuk.
Maybe he was practicing ballet moves.
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In fairness to West Ham, they did try to play out from the back a bit more yesterday but got caught a few times like we did when we first started the new way
That’s one thing we did yesterday we played out from the back beautifully, we are learning and not giving us fans heart failure anywhere near as much
I read a few reports about other team's pre seasons and I think West Ham and Chelsea were two mentioned as trying to play the way we do, but they were struggling to adapt.
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In fairness to West Ham, they did try to play out from the back a bit more yesterday but got caught a few times like we did when we first started the new way
That’s one thing we did yesterday we played out from the back beautifully, we are learning and not giving us fans heart failure anywhere near as much
I read a few reports about other team's pre seasons and I think West Ham and Chelsea were two mentioned as trying to play the way we do, but they were struggling to adapt.
Lol, it's like Lambert trying to play like Guardiola.
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I watched Bailey’s ‘Miss’ where he hit the post. I’m convinced it glanced off the defender who threw himself in front of Bailey’s shot which would otherwise have gone in.
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We seemed to adapt very quickly to Emery's style when he came in, but it may have been a case of him recognising what the players he had were capable of, and only asking them to adapt so much at first. As he's started adding his own players we've got better and better at it. If he'd just come in and expected us to play like we are now straight away, it wouldn't have worked.
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In general I'd rather have linesmen in each half and one running the goal line as you get in other sports. Rather than the farce of ten minutes rolling VT back and forth and drawing wanky lines on a screen in a desperate attempt to rule a goal out.
Would be three sets of eyes on the one incident with the final call still with the ref.
If two of his assistants said "No pen, Cash got a touch and Soucek is a bandy legged oaf," that should have been enough to get to the right call. In two minutes max.
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The squad depth has improved. What came off the bench yesterday really helped get that result over the line. Squad management will be crucial this season and Emery is a master at it.
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We seemed to adapt very quickly to Emery's style when he came in, but it may have been a case of him recognising what the players he had were capable of, and only asking them to adapt so much at first. As he's started adding his own players we've got better and better at it. If he'd just come in and expected us to play like we are now straight away, it wouldn't have worked.
First thing Emery noticed when he took over was that he felt we were rushing it a lot. He wanted us to slow down, which is easier to do.
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I watched Bailey’s ‘Miss’ where he hit the post. I’m convinced it glanced off the defender who threw himself in front of Bailey’s shot which would otherwise have gone in.
Nah, direct onto the post although the defender might have blocked it / knocked it in if on target. Surprised he didn't feint the defender then lift it but the rest of his play until that point was spot on. I honestly thought West Ham was playing an untried keeper with his line stance at the corner then bombing out into no mans land for that ball.
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You're correct that just winning the ball doesn't mean that a foul isn't then committed, but in this case, Cash does win the ball, then Soucek puts his leg between Cash's legs, and they both fall over.
My feeling is that the penalty was harsh for this reason, but I think it's really stretching it to say there's no possible other interpretation. Cash doesn't have the ball under control, he hasn't knocked it firmly away from Soucek, and he's swung his legs in Soucek's way which is why the tangle happened.
Like I say, not a penalty for me on the balance of things, but I can see why it was given as umpire's call. Depending on the original decision clipping the bails means out or clipping the bails means not out, and I'm content enough to live within that ambiguity.
I just strongly, strongly suspect that Man Utd would've got that overturned for them. But that's another story - they probably wouldn't have had it given against them to begin with anyway.
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No idea at the time whether it was a penalty or not as there were no replays shown on the screen. So we had the mad scenario where the fella standing next to me called his dad in Brum who was watching on telly to ask what was happening at the game we were watching live.
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No point in going over and repeating about who did what - all I know is, that as an ex-defender of 1970s vintage, I wouldn't last five minutes in the game today. Can't tackle, running to cover with their hands behind their backs in case of some ridiculous handball decision.
An utter joke now.
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Last season, it gets chalked off , if the VAR sends the ref to the screen it gets chalked off.
Now it’s a new interpretation, so will it be the same for handball? Because refs have no idea now what is a handball offence.
So it should now be, that the ref only stops the game if contact with the ball is very obviously deliberate, but I bet it won’t happen and it definitely won’t happen against Liverpool Manure or Citeh.
The whole thing is a farce.
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In fairness, it made the winning goal all that much sweeter though
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It was never a pen, Cash played the ball . Luckily it didn't matter .
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On the plus side, if that's how low the bar is now for penalties, we should be on for plenty this season with our attackers.
Defender wins the ball in the box but one of our pacey forwards loses momentum and falls down? Clear penalty!
Let's see if it plays out like that.
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You're correct that just winning the ball doesn't mean that a foul isn't then committed, but in this case, Cash does win the ball, then Soucek puts his leg between Cash's legs, and they both fall over.
My feeling is that the penalty was harsh for this reason, but I think it's really stretching it to say there's no possible other interpretation. Cash doesn't have the ball under control, he hasn't knocked it firmly away from Soucek, and he's swung his legs in Soucek's way which is why the tangle happened.
Like I say, not a penalty for me on the balance of things, but I can see why it was given as umpire's call. Depending on the original decision clipping the bails means out or clipping the bails means not out, and I'm content enough to live within that ambiguity.
I just strongly, strongly suspect that Man Utd would've got that overturned for them. But that's another story - they probably wouldn't have had it given against them to begin with anyway.
Cash doesn't foul him though. Cash wins the ball cleanly:
(https://i.ibb.co/d6JBJFp/Screenshot-2024-08-18-at-12-22-58.png) (https://ibb.co/d6JBJFp)
Soucek then puts his leg between Cash's two legs, making Cash full over:
(https://i.ibb.co/m9nCbm1/Screenshot-2024-08-18-at-12-23-54.png) (https://ibb.co/m9nCbm1)
As Cash falls over, with Soucek's leg between his legs (which Soucek instigated), Soucek falls over as well:
(https://i.ibb.co/zR8vLzh/Screenshot-2024-08-18-at-12-24-43.png) (https://ibb.co/zR8vLzh)
So Cash wins the ball, and is then knocked off balance by the actions of Soucek. It's not really a foul either way, but if it is, it's a foul on Cash. It certainly isn't a penalty. It shouldn't have been given, but as it was, VAR should have checked it properly and recommended to the ref that he has another look.
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[Shrug] I'm saying that's how I see it, but that I can also see why it wasn't overturned under the 'umpire's call' thing. Soucek's leg is already on its way when Cash makes the intervention, so it is Cash putting himself in Soucek's business. Cash gets a toe on the ball but does nothing decisive with it, and Soucek's probably favourite to pick it up if Cash doesn't intervene.
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So does a defender have to dribble or flick the ball out of the penalty area now McGrath-style to illustrate control?
When did this modification come in?
Cash can be a clumsy fcuker at times and maybe his reputation precedes him. But on this occasion it was a nifty bit of defending that should be applauded.
Poor decisions like that can suck the life out of a team. Better sides than West Ham would have taken full advantage.
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Just getting the ball was never enough, that's not what we were discussing IMO.
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I watched Bailey’s ‘Miss’ where he hit the post. I’m convinced it glanced off the defender who threw himself in front of Bailey’s shot which would otherwise have gone in.
There was no touch off defender.
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No point in going over and repeating about who did what - all I know is, that as an ex-defender of 1970s vintage, I wouldn't last five minutes in the game today. Can't tackle, running to cover with their hands behind their backs in case of some ridiculous handball decision.
An utter joke now.
Exactly. Defenders used to be allowed one “reducer” early in the game to let the forward know he’s there. Next one gets a card. Looking at replays of yesterday, that was never a penalty. The game’s gone etc….
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Pau deserves a s much praise a maatsen. What a pass pick through that was from pau
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
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In fairness to West Ham, they did try to play out from the back a bit more yesterday but got caught a few times like we did when we first started the new way
That’s one thing we did yesterday we played out from the back beautifully, we are learning and not giving us fans heart failure anywhere near as much
I read a few reports about other team's pre seasons and I think West Ham and Chelsea were two mentioned as trying to play the way we do, but they were struggling to adapt.
Tony Gayle was given the microphone pre-match and said to a full stadium that Aston Villa were the template that West Ham were going to try and emulate
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Looking at those pictures from Risso it does seem it is not a penalty, I agree to that.
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Great win and great away day. UTV
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Trevor Brooking! Violet Kray! Tabloid journalists! Ian Beale! Russell Brand! Henry Cooper! James Corden! Sendo- can you hear me, Sendo?! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!
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It was never a pen, Cash played the ball . Luckily it didn't matter .
Ah but he never played the ball enough.
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Why do people on telly in the media and on here Keep saying that Onana is a replacement for Luiz when he played in Kamara’s position the whole game yesterday, and did it very well
Tielemans played more in the Luiz position and also did it very well
Tielemans had a very good first half but was quiet after the break I thought. If Cash hadn't limped off Id say Barkley would have come on for him as the last sub. Very good debut for Onana, kept it simple on the ball and strong in both boxes. In saying all that, Soucek as ever was stronger in both boxes rather than in midfield play, their new signing in midfield hardly had a kick. The first half was armchair ride stuff for our duo, Onana at one stage was able to stand and turn on the ball under no pressure, must have been 15 yards inside their half. There will be much stronger tests ahead for Onana/Tielemans starting next game.
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It was never a pen, Cash played the ball . Luckily it didn't matter .
Ah but he never played the ball enough.
Exactly, he didn't kick it into row Z like Sully March did at Villa Park a couple of seasons ago.
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Trevor Brooking! Violet Kray! Tabloid journalists! Ian Beale! Russell Brand! Henry Cooper! James Corden! Sendo- can you hear me, Sendo?! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!
What? No Danny Dyer? Are you trying to mug us off treacle?
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Trevor Brooking! Violet Kray! Tabloid journalists! Ian Beale! Russell Brand! Henry Cooper! James Corden! Sendo- can you hear me, Sendo?! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!
What? No Danny Dyer? Are you trying to mug us off treacle?
I was more surprised that he left out Alf Garnett.
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Jack Peter Grealish is warming up.
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Jack Peter Grealish is warming up.
Probably sign for Chelsea come Tuesday - looks like they need a few players
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;Chelsea already drawing up a shortlist for a new manager?
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
I thought he had a decent game, too. They were focusing on our right all game and barely got a sniff while he was on the pitch, apart from the dodgy penalty.
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No idea at the time whether it was a penalty or not as there were no replays shown on the screen. So we had the mad scenario where the fella standing next to me called his dad in Brum who was watching on telly to ask what was happening at the game we were watching live.
It was weird too that we were waiting for the VAR decision and before this came up on the screen or the ref indicated the penalty would stand there was a lot of cheering from the West Ham fans to our left. They must have seen the decision on their phones from tv coverage I presume but they had a few seconds advance on those of us relying on the officials / big screen announcement.
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Jack Peter Grealish is warming up.
Probably sign for Chelsea come Tuesday - looks like they need a few players
he's too old for Chelsea
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
I thought he had a decent game, too. They were focusing on our right all game and barely got a sniff while he was on the pitch, apart from the dodgy penalty.
Even more unpopular I thought he played well and it was a penalty. The fact they moved his main opponent to the other wing was an indicator. Summerville gave his replacement a pretty hard time last 10 mins.
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Trevor Brooking! Violet Kray! Tabloid journalists! Ian Beale! Russell Brand! Henry Cooper! James Corden! Sendo- can you hear me, Sendo?! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!
Brand, ha ha yes, the utter t***t, I’d forgotten. That makes it twenty times more satisfying. I feel a bit sorry for decent West Ham fans saddled with that.
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Keira Knightley is a West Ham fan, apparently. Not sure how serious she is about it. Can't see her being a season ticket holder.
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
That's great and his ball to Maatsen was a gem but it concerns me that he is nowhere close to a place in his national team?
Frimpong at right back might mean the LB must be more solid/Konsa like?
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I was disappointed with Emi turning into Olsen for the penalty. I expect him to get into the players' head and go the right way every time. Sort it out!
World's number one my arse!*
*I don't really mean that.
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Maatsen, Ramsey,Rogers,Duran /Watkins combinations will cause some serious damage this season
The Four Musketeers!
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TNT weekend wrap show , Defoe Hutchinson , bellend and ex ref chris somebody. All agreed was a pen, Cash was clumsy ?! Then spent all of the rest of the coverage saying how West Ham would be fine , absolutely no mention of us or how well we played. Wankers .
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Pao Torres is absolute quality he could play for any team in the world including Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona
But he plays for us and that’s all that’s matters
In the first half, when he was being closed down by two West Ham players and he just shuffled the ball between both feet and went past them, I mean what centre half does that?
That's great and his ball to Maatsen was a gem but it concerns me that he is nowhere close to a place in his national team?
Frimpong at right back might mean the LB must be more solid/Konsa like?
He's talking about Pau not Maatsen.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
I'll have you know Central Milton Keynes shopping centre is now Grade II listed.
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The Met Office is forecasting 17⁰C at 5 pm on Saturday 24th. That's a bit nippy for me.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
I'll have you know Central Milton Keynes shopping centre is now Grade II listed.
It’s still a very depressing place
As are all shopping centres in my view
Historical note - Cliff Richard filmed his video for wired for sound on his roller skates in the MK shopping center
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Including the abysmal penalty given against us, there were more absolutely ridiculous decisions in other matches over this weekend. The new rules, regarding the use of var, have made it even worse than before. I didn’t think this was possible but they’ve proved me wrong already. I only have 1 suggestion to improve var, scrap it asap!
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Historical note - Cliff Richard filmed his video for wired for sound on his roller skates in the MK shopping center
Indeed. Me and my mate bunked off school and were up there while it was being filmed at the John Lewis end. We kept getting told to bugger off by a security guard.
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I was disappointed with Emi turning into Olsen for the penalty. I expect him to get into the players' head and go the right way every time. Sort it out!
World's number one my arse!*
*I don't really mean that.
Paqueta's last 5 pens scored were to the keepers left but he's only World's number 23 now.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
I'll have you know Central Milton Keynes shopping centre is now Grade II listed.
It’s still a very depressing place
As are all shopping centres in my view
Historical note - Cliff Richard filmed his video for wired for sound on his roller skates in the MK shopping center
Pity they didn’t wire cliff Richard to the electric mains…..vile ****** that he is
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Really enjoyed it, thought Onana, Pau, Rodgers were brilliant. Hope to see more from Philogene as the season progresses, but he looked a little lightweight.
I also took a new route out of the ground, having queued for ages last year and for the Foo Fighters to get back to Stratford, went to Pudding Mill Lane and was on a DLR train within 7 mins of leaving the ground! Result.
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The last time I went to West Ham (the 2-1 defeat 2 years ago) as well as the two bars for away fans, they had a load of standalone kiosks selling different drinks, so getting served was a doddle. On Saturday they only had the two main bars open, and the queues were just as bad as anything you'll find at VP.
Getting to the ground is ace. We parked in Westfield, got some scran in one of the dozens of restaurants and then walked the 5 minutes to the ground. Coming out though, everywhere's blocked off, they have stop/go systems like at Wembley, and you can't get straight back into the shopping centre. Pain in the arse.
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
I'll have you know Central Milton Keynes shopping centre is now Grade II listed.
It’s still a very depressing place
As are all shopping centres in my view
Historical note - Cliff Richard filmed his video for wired for sound on his roller skates in the MK shopping center
Pity they didn’t wire cliff Richard to the electric mains…..vile ****** that he is
That’s not a very nice thing to say about a national icon
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I also took a new route out of the ground, having queued for ages last year and for the Foo Fighters to get back to Stratford, went to Pudding Mill Lane and was on a DLR train within 7 mins of leaving the ground! Result.
That’s my top tip for getting away from West Ham. Beat the queues, beat the ridiculously long route back to Stratford and walk the 5 mins to Pudding Mill lane. Jump on the DLR from there and you’re back in central London really quickly
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Just back home after getting a last minute ticket from LeeB, thanks mate.
- Their stadium remains the worst place to watch football in the Premier league, and getting away afterwards is a pain in the arse.
The whole area makes Milton Keynes look like an interesting place to visit for those interested in historical architecture.
I'll have you know Central Milton Keynes shopping centre is now Grade II listed.
It’s still a very depressing place
As are all shopping centres in my view
Historical note - Cliff Richard filmed his video for wired for sound on his roller skates in the MK shopping center
Pity they didn’t wire cliff Richard to the electric mains…..vile ****** that he is
That’s not a very nice thing to say about a national icon
I think calling mains electric a national icon is a stretch
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
Hmm. I'm not one for joining in the pile on when it comes to Cash - He's better than he gets credit for but Kudus had him on toast the other day. Hell of a player. I doubt he'll be there this time next season to be honest.
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They have been talking about the pen on Ref Watch and they had a poll, where 58% thought it was not a pen. I thought it was never a pen, but having now seen that poll, have now accepted under the new rules, VAR was right not to overturn the ref's decision.
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
Hmm. I'm not one for joining in the pile on when it comes to Cash - He's better than he gets credit for but Kudus had him on toast the other day. Hell of a player. I doubt he'll be there this time next season to be honest.
I'm another who thinks we've probably outgrown him but I thought Cash did ok against Kudus. There were a couple of time where he was given the slip but retrieved the situation with a block or clearance. He's a grafter, Matty, with good fitness levels and decent recovery pace.
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They have been talking about the pen on Ref Watch and they had a poll, where 58% thought it was not a pen. I thought it was never a pen, but having now seen that poll, have now accepted under the new rules, VAR was right not to overturn the ref's decision.
I'm actually ok with VAR having a higher bar to overturn decisions. What that requires is the guy in the middle making the right decision, which in this instance, I don't think he did. Ultimately, VAR, specifically, hasn't really been the problem, it's the poor standard of refereeing and the poor legislation that hamstrings them that needs rectifying.
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Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but I thought Cash did really well against their best player.
Hmm. I'm not one for joining in the pile on when it comes to Cash - He's better than he gets credit for but Kudus had him on toast the other day. Hell of a player. I doubt he'll be there this time next season to be honest.
I'm another who thinks we've probably outgrown him but I thought Cash did ok against Kudus. There were a couple of time where he was given the slip but retrieved the situation with a block or clearance. He's a grafter, Matty, with good fitness levels and decent recovery pace.
This to a tee. He's a perfectly decent premier league full back. What he is not, is a top 4 Premier League right back
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The ref's reaction straight away was to bat away the Villa players and suggest that VAR was checking so calm down. Except he must have known that his interpretation now carries more weight than VARs.
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Coming out the ground at full time this Villa fan said what was the final score I said we won 2-1 he said I got thrown out at 0-0 I thought we scored in fourth minute lol.
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Was he in the home end, is that it?
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Was he in the home end, is that it?
He had the new away top on.
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Was he in the home end, is that it?
He had the new away top on.
I saw a guy get thrown out literally as soon as he got through the turnstiles! Didn't linger to find out why.
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I'm actually ok with VAR having a higher bar to overturn decisions. What that requires is the guy in the middle making the right decision, which in this instance, I don't think he did. Ultimately, VAR, specifically, hasn't really been the problem, it's the poor standard of refereeing and the poor legislation that hamstrings them that needs rectifying.
I agree in the main but as we all known in our gut that pen does not get given against the likes of Cite£, Redfilth, 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
Provide that evidence of fairness and everyone will agree.
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I'm actually ok with VAR having a higher bar to overturn decisions. What that requires is the guy in the middle making the right decision, which in this instance, I don't think he did. Ultimately, VAR, specifically, hasn't really been the problem, it's the poor standard of refereeing and the poor legislation that hamstrings them that needs rectifying.
I agree in the main but as we all known in our gut that pen does not get given against the likes of Cite£, Redfilth, 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'.
Provide that evidence of fairness and everyone will agree.
Last season when Chelsea scored their 'winner' it was obvious Carlos had been fouled but it was as if the ref thought - play on and will look if they score. That's re-reffing the game which it was never meant to be. He should have just blown for the foul.
As long as it clear and obvious only and equally applied to the afforementioned cntish bunch then fair enough.
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Re-watched it again, if all the heavy chances go in (and the pen that wasn't stands) the final score is -
West Ham 2 - 6 Aston Villa