Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: olaftab on November 05, 2023, 03:59:29 PM
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It happens.
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Meh.
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Might give MOTD 2 a miss.
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It does, but it was still wank all around.
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Looked like we were trying to pass the ball into the net.
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Bad day at the office
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The most frustrating result and performance I can remember, maybe ever. Topped off with just 6 fucking minutes added despite the time wasting. Every ball bounced the wrong way.
McGinn the only player to come out with credit - he was brilliant I thought . Everyone else was off it.
We needed not to be the first of the top 5 to blink and we turn out this shite. Fuck off.
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Poorest performance under Mr Emery. Apart from maybe wolves last year.
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I thought we were unlucky really.
2nd goal was a freak.
Should have scored a least one.
Oh well.
😓
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Wank.
From start to finish.
From front to back.
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crap and slow - Move on.
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Digne excepted, that was garbage. Looked like a Gerrard performance.
We go again.
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Looked like we were trying to pass the ball into the net.
I wish. We spent most of the time passing the ball backwards.
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When no single player has a decent game then you know its not your day.
Dust ourselves down and look towards Thursday
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Struggling to find any positives from that shit show. Over the last few years, we had the unfortunate habit of gifting games to crap sides who were at the wrong end of the table. I hoped we were past that but clearly not.
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Moreno can’t be fit, on form he would have ripped them apart given the space Digne found himself in.
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Worrying that if we let in an early goal, we seemed to be guaranteed a loss. Also worrying we seem to let in goals within the first few minutes of the second half. Why is that? Does whatever Emery say at half time cause confusion? Does the opposition manager make a change that counteracts Emery? Does Emery make a sly change that causes us to be more open? Whatever is happening, Emery needs to get on top of it.
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I has a bad feeling at ko and it never got any better.
The thickest of lines needs to be drawn under this.
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Just off it today. Martinez throwing in their second killed us. Camped in their half all second half but bar the horrible Watkins miss we didnt have too many genuine chances. Final ball from Digne especially was horrible when well placed. Bailey was rubbish when he came on. Logic with last two subs I didnt get. Our CBs were ok but that aside no one up to par.
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I expect Emery to say it like it is. And I am sure he will work overtime with the players to remedy this. The players are in for a tough week with two key games coming up.
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Twice we gave their player the freedom of Nottingham on the edge of the box to twat one goalwards, second time the best keeper in the world slaps at it in a way that Olsen would be slaughtered for. When you gift 2 goals then you need your forwards to be on it, and they were far from it.
Still, i'd have taken 5th and 16 points from the last 7 games. Need to put things right next weekend.
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Terrible performance. Specially Zaniola and Cash, who were abysmal.
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Rubbish performance but everyone has them and we were due one. We move on.
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Fucking dreadful from start to finish.
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We just weren't good enough today in both boxes. It happens.
Beat Fulham and 25 points from first 12 is still an excellent start.
I think we need to start mixing the team up a little. Seems UE has his fixed prem 11 but I was amazed Bailey didn't start today.
Kamara, Luiz and Digne all on 4 yellows so we'll be seeing changes to our regular starters soon enough. Would be a bit of a disaster if we lose two of those for Spurs away so think we'll go full strength for Alkmaar and then mix and match for Fulham.
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Nowhere near it today but we're going to get these now and again.
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About 80% possession.
What’s the point when you don’t do anything with it.
Their new goalie had a good game, but we made it a dream debut for him.
I don’t he actually made any decent saves, just loads of catches.
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That was dog-shit.
Had to happen against one of the worst sides in the league too.
One thing I don't understand from the first half was the way we kept trying to push the ball out to Digne so he could cross the ball in.
Fair enough.
But in doing that, Cash had the ball in the right hand side at least 7 or 8 times in a position to cross, & he did a prime Shawn Maloney impression by stopping the ball, cutting back & passing the ball backwards.
And then the ball went across the pitch for Digne to cross in.
What the actual fuck was Cash doing getting so far forward if he wasn't prepared to put the ball in the box?
And what the fuck were we doing 2-0 down with ten minutes to go, walking around passing the ball between the back four?
Where was the fucking urgency?
Not going to lie, that game has really pissed me off.
Fucking furious...
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There seems to be no plan B when we go behind. Approaching 90 mins with 6 minutes to add on, we're pissing about playing short passes that are nowhere near the Forest box.
Poor.
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
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Reading the preview thread this game was as good as won. Perhaps we should tone down the arrogance.
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Terrible performance. Specially Zaniola and Cash, who were abysmal.
Cash was injured apparently. played like he was drunk so hopefully nothing seriously. Zaniolo is running out of chances under Emery.
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That was dog-shit.
Had to happen against one of the worst sides in the league too.
One thing I don't understand from the first half was the way we kept trying to push the ball out to Digne so he could cross the ball in.
Fair enough.
But in doing that, Cash had the ball in the right hand side at least 7 or 8 times in a position to cross, & he did a prime Shawn Maloney impression by stopping the ball, cutting back & passing the ball backwards.
And then the ball went across the pitch for Digne to cross in.
What the actual fuck was Cash doing getting so far forward if he wasn't prepared to put the ball in the box?
And what the fuck were we doing 2-0 down with ten minutes to go, walking around passing the ball between the back four?
Where was the fucking urgency?
Not going to lie, that game has really pissed me off.
Fucking furious...
Very, very much how I see it.
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Still 5th. That's about the only positive.
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We just weren't good enough today in both boxes. It happens.
Beat Fulham and 25 points from first 12 is still an excellent start.
I think we need to start mixing the team up a little. Seems UE has his fixed prem 11 but I was amazed Bailey didn't start today.
Kamara, Luiz and Digne all on 4 yellows so we'll be seeing changes to our regular starters soon enough. Would be a bit of a disaster if we lose two of those for Spurs away so think we'll go full strength for Alkmaar and then mix and match for Fulham.
Personally I would have started Tielemans instead of Zanny and not Bailey. Saying that even the subs did nothing. The tempo of the whole game was thrown off by letting in the early goals each half, something Emery needs to address as this is the 4th loss away from home when we have conceded in the first few minutes.
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First half tactics very poor with both Dougie and Kamara very deep leaving McGinn surrounded. Second half Dougie moved up 20 yards and we dominate but the lack of movement from the players in front, the slowness of getting balls into the box, Watkins never once had a chance to run at them instead always with his back to goal. Diaby, are we playing to his strengths? Emi, next time (ha!) he wants to piss off to Paris to pick up an award, tell him to do it via Zoom.
Forest were just to strong for us. We always struggle against physically strong sides. No complaints, they deserved the three points.
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That was cack. Goals at the start of halves really piss me off too. Zaniolo needs offing.
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I blame all those writing Forest off as hopeless pre-match….not really. We were just completely off it, need to learn from it. There are times away when we’re a bit listless and we struggle when going behind.
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I don’t see the point of Zaniolo at all. Why loan in such a bog standard nothing player?
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Zaniolo needs to wake the fuck up.
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
You are right. We, as fans, have been educated that this is the way we play.
But we must be able to mix it up, and speed it up. surely.
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We could play on until thursday and not score. Our final pass and final shot were excruciating today. Not really much to be positive about sadly. Diaby had his worst game. Bailey was back to the Bailey we've seen way too much of away from home sadly, although he was at least better than Zaniolo. Ollie just wasn't on it either sadly. Cash never seemed to want to drive on the outside. Douglas was really off the boil. Martinez must still be hungover from the ballon d'ors. Less said about their second the better but I thought he was poorly positioned on the first goal and got beaten too easily.
Only positives for me were Pau who really does ping it around nicely. Digne was really one of our only outlets but he tired out. Mcginn played okay too. Tielemens was fairly decent when he came on. Fluffed a good chance, but no one seemed to get anything like a clean strike today.
One to write off. We really weren't at the races and didn't up the tempo enough.
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Zaniolo was one of the hottest prospects in world football before his injury and is an Italy international. Ramsey is injured so Zaniolo the 'bog standard nothing player' is not a bad option to have until Ramsey is fit.
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First half tactics very poor with both Dougie and Kamara very deep leaving McGinn surrounded. Second half Dougie moved up 20 yards and we dominate but the lack of movement from the players in front, the slowness of getting balls into the box, Watkins never once had a chance to run at them instead always with his back to goal. Diaby, are we playing to his strengths? Emi, next time (ha!) he wants to piss off to Paris to pick up an award, tell him to do it via Zoom.
Forest were just to strong for us. We always struggle against physically strong sides. No complaints, they deserved the three points.
That can never be an excuse though, can it?
They were too physical for us ?
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
Problem is we played as if we've got it out head that you can turn up and just pass the ball into the net every week. Emery was found out today, and could not react.
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I blame all those writing Forest off as hopeless pre-match….not really. We were just completely off it, need to learn from it. There are times away when we’re a bit listless and we struggle when going behind.
Forest are awful. Watkins scores that chance and they would have collapsed.
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Shame - we just played rubbish Digne was ok in the first, McGinn in the second. Its a real shame - as after Fulham I think we have Arsenal, Spurs and Man City as 3 of our 4 league games, so this was a good chance to take some of the pressure of for that run.
Think it shows what we probably already knew - if the normal "key" players aren't at it we struggle. Zanilio was very poor, although involved. I do still think he could be a very good player but his decision making and end-product is just awful currently. Bailey started ok but quickly faded. Tieleman was ok - but really he needs to do more than he did to get more minutes.
We need Duran, Ramsey and Moreno back ASAP (he clearly wasn't fit enough to be on the bench as otherwise I am sure we would have brought him on for Digne for the last 10), and I think this was the first time all season where we really missed Beundia.
I'm not too down about it, we have done amazingly this season, and these things happen fom time to.
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Surprised the term complacent hasn’t been mentioned yet, so thought I’d take the opportunity. A one off I trust.
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I don't see the point having a go at Zaniolo. The whole lot of them were cack today.
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I blame all those writing Forest off as hopeless pre-match….not really. We were just completely off it, need to learn from it. There are times away when we’re a bit listless and we struggle when going behind.
Forest are awful. Watkins scores that chance and they would have collapsed.
Nah they’re not they’ve got some decent players and it’s a tough place to go.
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Reading the preview thread this game was as good as won. Perhaps we should tone down the arrogance.
I blame Ads.
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So wasteful today. Poor decision making when in on goal. Crap passes, overplaying the ball instead of shooting and general crap finishing.
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First half tactics very poor with both Dougie and Kamara very deep leaving McGinn surrounded. Second half Dougie moved up 20 yards and we dominate but the lack of movement from the players in front, the slowness of getting balls into the box, Watkins never once had a chance to run at them instead always with his back to goal. Diaby, are we playing to his strengths? Emi, next time (ha!) he wants to piss off to Paris to pick up an award, tell him to do it via Zoom.
Forest were just to strong for us. We always struggle against physically strong sides. No complaints, they deserved the three points.
That can never be an excuse though, can it?
They were too physical for us ?
No but it's a trait we have. Other teams don't seem to have a problem. As I said Unai's tactics, especially first half were playing into their hands. Normally our midfield dominate, today we didn't have one until we were 2-0 down.
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Zaniolo was one of the hottest prospects in world football before his injury and is an Italy international. Ramsey is injured so Zaniolo the 'bog standard nothing player' is not a bad option to have until Ramsey is fit.
What he used to be is irrelevant. What he is now is shite.
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Second best today and unable to break down a physical side protecting a lead. This us something Emery needs to work on. I'm also still not sure how anyone ever thought Jarod Gillett is a top level referee.
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One team playing their FA Cup final against another having a Sunday afternoon kickabout.
Very, very disappointing.
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I have expunged that game from my mind.
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If you're putting Tielemans on, as we saw at AZ, have him on in front of Luiz and Kamara, not replacing one of them. Didn't see the point of putting Kamara at RB, seemed a strange one.
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Zaniolo was one of the hottest prospects in world football before his injury and is an Italy international. Ramsey is injured so Zaniolo the 'bog standard nothing player' is not a bad option to have until Ramsey is fit.
What he used to be is irrelevant. What he is now is shite.
And why keep starting him? Bailey or Traore should get first dibs now. They're erratic but they contribute positively. Ore than Zaniolo.
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Surprised the term complacent hasn’t been mentioned yet, so thought I’d take the opportunity. A one off I trust.
As with the last two bad defeats, the home matches coming up should hopefully be a tonic. However I'm concerned with the next away match being a drubbing against us on par with Newcastle and what Liverpool should also have done.
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Struggling to find any positives from that shit show. Over the last few years, we had the unfortunate habit of gifting games to crap sides who were at the wrong end of the table. I hoped we were past that but clearly not.
You can finish in top 5 and not beat Forest away. Happened to all of Liverpool, Arsenal and Man. City last season.
It's a disappointing result but there's a reason why they keep on picking up results at home.
Not beating Fulham would be far more of a poor result, we need to keep this fantastic winning run going at VP for as long as we possibly can.
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All the players were cack some worse than that
Been looking forward to this game all week and I’m in disbelief of some of the shooting and opportunities that we wasted
As I said on the match thread it look tantamount to match fixing sometimes the way the ball went blazing miles over the bar
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Reading the preview thread this game was as good as won. Perhaps we should tone down the arrogance.
I blame Ads.
Makes a change from it being Cash. ;)
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Really poor all possession and no product. Unai out thought by Steve. You can't just play the same all game wen its not working.
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Zaniolo was one of the hottest prospects in world football before his injury and is an Italy international. Ramsey is injured so Zaniolo the 'bog standard nothing player' is not a bad option to have until Ramsey is fit.
What he used to be is irrelevant. What he is now is shite.
And why keep starting him? Bailey or Traore should get first dibs now. They're erratic but they contribute positively. Ore than Zaniolo.
Tielemans showed he could also play in that position in front of Doug and Kamara. (at least better then he can replacing one of those two). One problem with starting Bailey / Traore is we normally move McGinn across to accomodate them and that takes him out the game.
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Moreno can’t be fit, on form he would have ripped them apart given the space Digne found himself in.
He's been out for over six months. As we've seen with Ramsey throw players back in before they're 100% and they will get significant setbacks.
I assume the plan is to give him sub cameos v Alkmaar and Fulham and then hopefully with the two week break he'll be in contention to start at Spurs.
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Their will be some embarrassed faces when they watch the game back. Mistakes everywhere.
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One to forget. Uncharacteristic mistake by Emi Martinez put the game out of reach really. We created a lot of good situations, but the final ball or decision just let us down time and again.
Two home games in a week now where we can put ourselves in a very good position in terms of qualifying for the next round in Europe and staying in the top.5 going into the international break.
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A bad day at the office. We were probably due one. We’ve just won 5 out of 6 and are in an unfathomable place from where we were this time last year.
We go again ( only this time we probably really will)
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So many wasted situations second half and 2 gifted goals. A huge chance for Watkins which he must score.
We had a warning before they scored and did exactly the same not long after. They are very limited and we’ve gifted them a win.
The second goal I’ve not seen back but it looked bad enough at the time so I don’t think I’ll bother.
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Forest won because it was their day. Simple as that. We had more clear cut chances but‘ were poor by our standards. It happens - an average side works their balls off, meets a team who have an off day but still is easily the better team but fails to convert their many chances while making errors for both goals. Like when Wolves beat Man City.
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I thought in hindsight we really missed a Lampard or Platt like number 8 today backing up Watkins. when there is no space in behind Watkins is average. In hindsight, Emery should have told Luiz at half time to forget about taking the ball off the CBs and instead focus on running off the back off Watkins. We missed Ramsey and Moreno today.
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That was one of those games we’ve all seen over the years under every manager from “The Doc” in my case up to Emery where we were never gonna score no matter what we did, we could still be playing now and not score. We were clearly the better footballing team but nothing we did worked. We’ll put it behind us and move on
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
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Absolute pants.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/n-forest-vs-a-villa/482698
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Villa do seem to struggle against these bodybuilder sides like Palace and Forrest, but we didn't help ourselves so many "not on it" today. Even McGinn was being bounced around!
Massive howler from Martinez, looked like he was trying an acrobatic save for the cameras, I'm sure there was a simple solution to deal with the shot.
The goal just after half time done us.
I'm all for the patient build up but on 94mins at 2 nil down, centre half stops the ball dead in his own half before playing a square ball...what outcome is to be expected? I would have liked to see us step up the tempo and be more direct.
Maybe should approach the more tricky away games with extra cautioun. Start Tielimans as an extra body to flood the midfield, keep the ball and quieten the home support then bring on more attacking weapons.
By the time Zaniolo gets up to speed with the prem it will be time for him to return to his parent club (thats if he ever gets up to speed, he is slow, selfish and makes poor decisions)
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Watching that second goal again, Martinez could simply have stood there and caught that shot. No need at all to dive, and no need to go for it with one hand.
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
Problem is we played as if we've got it out head that you can turn up and just pass the ball into the net every week. Emery was found out today, and could not react.
We lost a game. Emery was found out. What a load of bollocks. So I assume when Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep, Wenger etc etc. Managers will far more career success than Emery lost games they were found out too?
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Cooper clearly had a plan against us. My major worry is that that game will prove an object lesson for other managers as to how to stop Villa. Muscle them out, deny them room, they are the type of team who can only play if you let them. Although I guess AZ and Fulham were always going to play contain and break anyway
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Am I wrong in thinking that Luiz should have got to the ball for the. first goal but instead hesitated and stood back allowing all the time needed for the shot. As the ball came back I expected us to take possession and move forward to attack but it took a few moments to understand what had happened. I think Luiz was very much at fault for the first goal - and that set the tone for what followed.
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I’d have been more upset if we created nothing and were soundly beaten. Truth was we conceded two stupid long range goals and battered them. We lost these sort of games on the past with a whimper. It just didn’t happen today. It won’t again I’m sure. Mark it down and move on.
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
Problem is we played as if we've got it out head that you can turn up and just pass the ball into the net every week. Emery was found out today, and could not react.
We lost a game. Emery was found out. What a load of bollocks. So I assume when Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep, Wenger etc etc. Managers will far more career success than Emery lost games they were found out too?
Yes. Exactly this.
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Absolute shit from everyone apart from McGinn, Emery included. It’ was needlessly frustrating.
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Cooper clearly had a plan against us. My major worry is that that game will prove an object lesson for other managers as to how to stop Villa. Muscle them out, deny them room, they are the type of team who can only play if you let them. Although I guess AZ and Fulham were always going to play contain and break anyway
Loads of teams had tried various formations and tactics at VP in last eight months and no one's come up with a decent answer yet.
If we mess up against a very average Fulham that will concern me far more than today as we need to keep this incredible winning run going at VP for as long as possible.
I'd shake up the team next weekend. Don't want to be losing Kamara and Luiz for Spurs away given they're both on 4 yellows so I'd be starting Tielemans.
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The passing was snail pace, apart from McGinn there was no urgency, keep giving the ball to cash on the wing and he keeps passing it back, what's the point. For one of the few times this season we were boring to watch, no invention and little effort.
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Cooper clearly had a plan against us. My major worry is that that game will prove an object lesson for other managers as to how to stop Villa. Muscle them out, deny them room, they are the type of team who can only play if you let them. Although I guess AZ and Fulham were always going to play contain and break anyway
Loads of teams had tried various formations and tactics at VP in last eight months and no one's come up with a decent answer yet.
If we mess up against a very average Fulham that will concern me far more than today as we need to keep this incredible winning run going at VP for as long as possible.
I'd shake up the team next weekend. Don't want to be losing Kamara and Luiz for Spurs away given they're both on 4 yellows so I'd be starting Tielemans.
Ah. The 10 player 4-3-2 system.
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Forest was never gonna be easy, outside the top 5, they are the only team to be unbeaten at home, but having said that was a poor effort from us, only McGinn, Digne and Torres came out with any credit.
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Am I wrong in thinking that Luiz should have got to the ball for the. first goal but instead hesitated and stood back allowing all the time needed for the shot. As the ball came back I expected us to take possession and move forward to attack but it took a few moments to understand what had happened. I think Luiz was very much at fault for the first goal - and that set the tone for what followed.
I'm not sure that he would have got to the ball but he maybe should have tried to close him down before he took the shot. I may be being overly harsh though.
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I hope that we can now stop saying we’ll be tired if we play on a Thursday and Sunday. Looked way off it today having had all the rest that we had. Emery is a great manager but, on days like today, not sure why he doesn’t change our style of play when things are not working for us. Like others have said, 0-2 down, 10 minutes to play of which we waste the bulk of that time playing it sideways and backwards. Sometimes you just need to go for it.
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Cooper clearly had a plan against us. My major worry is that that game will prove an object lesson for other managers as to how to stop Villa. Muscle them out, deny them room, they are the type of team who can only play if you let them. Although I guess AZ and Fulham were always going to play contain and break anyway
My fear was Forest would get the first goal and Cooper is very adept at setting his sides up deep and well organised in defending a lead. They did it to Arsenal and Liverpool last season, also sides that aim to play through sides. Sometimes a longer ball and trying to get defenders to face their own goal at least gives them something else to think about.
And our high line? Heart in mouth stuff at times in the first half.
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Many on here have criticised Villa teams in the past for lack of possession as it is true better teams do enjoy more ball. Today we were at 74% and dominated every stat other than the key one, so play like that and we will win more than draw or lose. Today was just a bad day.
(https://i.ibb.co/0sNd8Vk/41-AC99-C5-C6-D4-4-A7-E-8-AC1-CBD604658822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0sNd8Vk)
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Luiz had a poor game by his standards. If he is off it we are normally poor. It happens. We won’t win every match either, despite having the potential too.
We dominated, but didn’t move the ball quick enough. Also if Forest had given us the space we did for their two goals we’d have scored loads.
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Yep agree with most. Mcginn excellent if a little obvious with passing out to Digne all the time. Torres our best signing for me. Diaby - I often think he can do more. Quite pleased with Kamara as his head can sometimes go when we are losing but thought he did pretty well. Tielemans the positive I thought. Looks quicker and sharper now and did well. I’d start him away for now as something needs to change away from Villa Park.
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I’d have been more upset if we created nothing and were soundly beaten. Truth was we conceded two stupid long range goals and battered them. We lost these sort of games on the past with a whimper. It just didn’t happen today. It won’t again I’m sure. Mark it down and move on.
Well said Dave.
It shows how far we’ve come that on 75 mins i was still confident, also their fans were really nervous until the last 5 mins. Partly I suppose because they let a 2 goal lead slip to Luton, but i also think because essentially we were battering them. Its just one of those days until its not. If we don’t beat Fulham next week ill be more concerned but we will beat them.
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As good as we've been playing at home, we've been generally poor away from home. In all 3 games we've lost, we've given away an early goal. Forrest we're physically stronger than us, especially first half.
We've improved so much in a year but we might need to rethink how we play away from home.
Ramsay & Moreno return & a right back who can go forward would improve things.
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Yep Doug was uncharacteristically poor for their first, but the team shape was all wrong and they all seemed out of sorts.
The away form compared to the home is getting to be a bit of a concern to be honest.
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Zaniolo hooked at half time again, he's really starting to not look very good at all
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Digne had lots of the ball but was very wasteful. Moreno, if fully fit, should start, perhaps beginning on Thursday
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Am I wrong in thinking that Luiz should have got to the ball for the. first goal but instead hesitated and stood back allowing all the time needed for the shot. As the ball came back I expected us to take possession and move forward to attack but it took a few moments to understand what had happened. I think Luiz was very much at fault for the first goal - and that set the tone for what followed.
I'm not sure that he would have got to the ball but he maybe should have tried to close him down before he took the shot. I may be being overly harsh though.
In real time I definitely thought he should have made more of an effort to get to the player striking the ball.
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Hopefully a poor performance to brush off the 'just expect to turn up and win' type attitude and make us focus for every game, not just the ones we think might be easy. We dominated possession but did very little with the ball. I said the other day that, as good as we have been and as improved as several players have been, we need natural replacements for Cash, Kamara and Ollie, all three were below par today. We can't win very week and it shows how far we have come that we expect to.
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Last time we lost a game we probably should have won, we won 5 of the next 6.
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
Exactly.
So why didn’t we change our game plan and mix things up?
Go long, go wide, go bloody quicker !!!!!
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BC, losing a game does not equate to being “found out”. Good grief.
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BC, losing a game does not equate to being “found out”. Good grief.
It’s needless hysteria. We are going to lose games every so often.
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
Problem is we played as if we've got it out head that you can turn up and just pass the ball into the net every week. Emery was found out today, and could not react.
We lost a game. Emery was found out. What a load of bollocks. So I assume when Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep, Wenger etc etc. Managers will far more career success than Emery lost games they were found out too?
I said he was found out today. His game plan didn't work and he couldn’t change it
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One of those games when nothing went our way.
EMI saves a goal and the ball spins into the net.
Every bounce of the ball didn’t land our way and decision making was always the wrong choice; pass instead of shoot, shoot instead of pass etc.
But, I have to say Forest were very often first to the ball in the box.
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Sack the Board
Bring back (the ghost of) Doug
Relegated by Christmas
Emery out
Steeeeeevie G where are you in our hour of need?
That should cover most of the keyboard hysterics.
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You have to score first against teams like this to force them out but we decided to spend 88 minutes playing at walking pace so it is what it is.
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
Exactly.
So why didn’t we change our game plan and mix things up?
Go long, go wide, go bloody quicker !!!!!
Calm down
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That was abhorrent. Worst game under Emery
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The set up was all wrong from the off today, and not for the first time in away games. Kamara was dropping into a back three to let Cash play on the wing, where he had an absolute stinker. Zaniolo was shocking and we gifted them two goals.
Emery recognises that we need to be better away. Unfortunately, today was very poor indeed.
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This is a game we'd have lost last year under Gerrard. Oh?
Maybe we need to temper our expectations a wee bit...
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I’m fully on board with playing out from the back but can’t we do the side ways stuff a bit quicker when we’re up against the clock?
Problem is we played as if we've got it out head that you can turn up and just pass the ball into the net every week. Emery was found out today, and could not react.
We lost a game. Emery was found out. What a load of bollocks. So I assume when Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep, Wenger etc etc. Managers will far more career success than Emery lost games they were found out too?
I said he was found out today. His game plan didn't work and he couldn’t change it
If we know anything about him his game plan was likely sound. It takes players not to make poor decisions and especially early on in each half. Getting found out is you suggesting Emery isn’t the manager he is reputed to be. Steve Cooper suddenly didn’t unlock some dark secret about defeating him. We lost a game. That’s all. On another day with the possession and chances we had we win by a lot.
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One thing I have noticed this year compared to last year - there seems to be less variation in our speed. We moved the ball very quickly at times last year - but that seems to happen much less.
Cash had a bad game - at no point did he ever look threatening in the final third. It doesnt help that he cant cross, but I would like to see him get to the byline a bit more.
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
Exactly.
So why didn’t we change our game plan and mix things up?
Go long, go wide, go bloody quicker !!!!!
Calm down
I’m very calm. Was there any need to be personal and smarmy ?
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Rubbish performance but everyone has them and we were due one. We move on.
You are a helluva lot more forgiving than Unai is going to be that's for sure.
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
Exactly.
So why didn’t we change our game plan and mix things up?
Go long, go wide, go bloody quicker !!!!!
Calm down
I’m very calm. Was there any need to be personal and smarmy ?
I’m glad you’re calm, I’m still fucking fuming
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We couldn’t cope with their physicality. We were piss poor in either box
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One thing I have noticed this year compared to last year - there seems to be less variation in our speed. We moved the ball very quickly at times last year - but that seems to happen much less.
Cash had a bad game - at no point did he ever look threatening in the final third. It doesnt help that he cant cross, but I would like to see him get to the byline a bit more.
That happens when a team doesn’t press us in our own half. We virtually stand still trying to force teams to close us down and lose their shape. A lot of the Luton game was the same but they were in damage limitation mode. West Ham tried to press us which helped us play quicker, but they weren’t very good at it.
We do need more options when teams sit off us.
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Digne excepted, that was garbage. Looked like a Gerrard performance.
We go again.
Seconded
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Zaniolo hooked at half time again, he's really starting to not look very good at all
Why is the guy starting for God's sake?
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I was watching Zaniolo and I think Bailey in the warmup. The first long ball attempted was about twenty yards away from Bailey. I knew he’d be shit after that.
Absolutely nothing went for Villa today. The only good thing about today was my easy drive home.
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Liverpool struggling away at Luton 0-0
What’s the betting they’ll come away with a one nil win
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I was watching Zaniolo and I think Bailey in the warmup. The first long ball attempted was about twenty yards away from Bailey. I knew he’d be shit after that.
Absolutely nothing went for Villa today. The only good thing about today was my easy drive home.
Zaniolo was very poor today, when Bailey came on he was even worse did nothing and lost the ball most time he got it crap
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First half tactics very poor with both Dougie and Kamara very deep leaving McGinn surrounded. Second half Dougie moved up 20 yards and we dominate but the lack of movement from the players in front, the slowness of getting balls into the box, Watkins never once had a chance to run at them instead always with his back to goal. Diaby, are we playing to his strengths? Emi, next time (ha!) he wants to piss off to Paris to pick up an award, tell him to do it via Zoom.
Forest were just to strong for us. We always struggle against physically strong sides. No complaints, they deserved the three points.
That can never be an excuse though, can it?
They were too physical for us ?
Not an excuse but Rudy is spot on. The first half in particular they out muscled us all over the pitch. We improved in that aspect in the second but never really looked likely to score.
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So what’s this ‘losing’ malarkey all about, then?
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So what’s this ‘losing’ malarkey all about, then?
I don’t like it, hope it never happens again
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One thing I have noticed this year compared to last year - there seems to be less variation in our speed. We moved the ball very quickly at times last year - but that seems to happen much less.
Cash had a bad game - at no point did he ever look threatening in the final third. It doesnt help that he cant cross, but I would like to see him get to the byline a bit more.
That happens when a team doesn’t press us in our own half. We virtually stand still trying to force teams to close us down and lose their shape. A lot of the Luton game was the same but they were in damage limitation mode. West Ham tried to press us which helped us play quicker, but they weren’t very good at it.
We do need more options when teams sit off us.
I think that was some of the thinking behind Zinolo and definitely Tielemanns - there ability to score from distance - with the idea that could be used against a low block.
Unfortuantely, its not really happened for either yet. Teilemanns tbf is starting to look better, but skyed a long range shot. Zinolo seems to be getting worse. Hoping he just needs a couple of goals.
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Watching that second goal again, Martinez could simply have stood there and caught that shot. No need at all to dive, and no need to go for it with one hand.
Imagine he's been on the champagne this week
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Forest hadn't won for 7 fucking games yet they beat us comfortably.
We are improving in that there's no doubt but we are still a major work in progress.
We need to be honest with ourselves after that result.
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Forest hadn't won for 7 fucking games yet they beat us comfortably.
We are improving in that there's no doubt but we are still a major work in progress.
We need to be honest with ourselves after that result.
No we don’t. We need to calm down after losing a game. Shit happens.
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So what’s this ‘losing’ malarkey all about, then?
I got a ticket.
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Am I wrong in thinking that Luiz should have got to the ball for the. first goal but instead hesitated and stood back allowing all the time needed for the shot. As the ball came back I expected us to take possession and move forward to attack but it took a few moments to understand what had happened. I think Luiz was very much at fault for the first goal - and that set the tone for what followed.
I'm not sure that he would have got to the ball but he maybe should have tried to close him down before he took the shot. I may be being overly harsh though.
I thought Zaniolo should have been tracking him but was dozing. You saw it on one of the replays he sort of half reacts as he moves on to strike it but it’s a token effort as he’s too far away.
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So what’s this ‘losing’ malarkey all about, then?
I got a ticket.
You’ve let the club down, you’ve let this site down, but most of all you’ve let yourself down.
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Even though we lost, I must say Torres looks such a good player. He really does have a presence about him.
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Forest hadn't won for 7 fucking games yet they beat us comfortably.
We are improving in that there's no doubt but we are still a major work in progress.
We need to be honest with ourselves after that result.
No we don’t. We need to calm down after losing a game. Shit happens.
We’re not going to win the league with that sort of devil may care attitude mate
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Welcome to 1976-77 re-visited. Scoring for fun at home; decidedly average on the road.
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Forest hadn't won for 7 fucking games yet they beat us comfortably.
We are improving in that there's no doubt but we are still a major work in progress.
We need to be honest with ourselves after that result.
No we don’t. We need to calm down after losing a game. Shit happens.
Nah, mate, seriously, Unai is not buying that mentally at all.
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Nice to be at the top end of the table ya miserable brummie bastards! 😂
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I was watching Zaniolo and I think Bailey in the warmup. The first long ball attempted was about twenty yards away from Bailey. I knew he’d be shit after that.
Absolutely nothing went for Villa today. The only good thing about today was my easy drive home.
Zaniolo was very poor today, when Bailey came on he was even worse did nothing and lost the ball most time he got it crap
Yeah Zaniolo seems to be taking the brunt of the stick but he was far from the worst player - Diaby and Watkins were both shocking as was Bailey
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Christ, Unai is unhappy when we win. How do we think he is feeling after that non-event of a performance?
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If you think we were bad, Liverpool are atrocious against Luton. They'll probably snatch it though with a late goal.
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Christ, Unai is unhappy when we win. How do we think he is feeling after that non-event of a performance?
I wouldn't say it was quite that bad.
We kept the ball, passed it around nicely by and large, we just over-played things and tried to play that extra pass far too often whilst attempting to get through an area Forest had stuffed with bodies.
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
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Christ, Unai is unhappy when we win. How do we think he is feeling after that non-event of a performance?
I wouldn't say it was quite that bad.
We kept the ball, passed it around nicely by and large, we just over-played things and tried to play that extra pass far too often whilst attempting to get through an area Forest had stuffed with bodies.
His post match interview was disappointed but pragmatic looking at the display in context of the total body of work across 12 months, and including our recent form. He certainly isn’t jumping off any bridges. It was below the standards we have set for ourselves. We played well in parts but let ourselves down with critical errors and just wastefulness when given the chance to get back in. Comparisons to the Gerrard era from some makes me laugh. The worst of Gerrard doesn’t come close to a poor performance vs Forest on the back 5 wins from 6.
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As someone said earlier, it’s a good job we didn’t play in Europe this week else that would be getting 100% of the blame for this
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If you think we were bad, Liverpool are atrocious against Luton. They'll probably snatch it though with a late goal.
Well 1-0 down
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As someone said earlier, it’s a good job we didn’t play in Europe this week else that would be getting 100% of the blame for this
Yes, thank god we didn't have the League Cup eh, that week off clearly did them all the good in the world.
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
Yeah, most of that possession was passing it around the defence or Cash / Digne turning back and playing safe.
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
The Forest fans next me were all surprised how easily they nullified our team - even they didn’t think we looked like scoring.
I was really looking forward to seeing Diaby’s pace today - he only used it to get us out of trouble at the back!
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As someone said earlier, it’s a good job we didn’t play in Europe this week else that would be getting 100% of the blame for this
Yes, thank god we didn't have the League Cup eh, that week off clearly did them all the good in the world.
Yep just shows what a load of bollocks all that excusefest is
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
No it’s not. Teams that consistently control the ball inevitably win games, no red herring. Today it didn’t work but mostly it will.
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
No it’s not. Teams that consistently control the ball inevitably win games, no red herring. Today it didn’t work but mostly it will.
Yes that’s true but I think what possession stats don’t show is by looking at them you’d think we were literally all over Nottingham Forest when in reality their goalie had very little to do mainly because we were blasting the ball over the stands most of the game
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I think it's been said already, but Forest's plan not to press high or really engage us until we reached the final third was effective. They have some quick and strong players and they didn't look as bad as many were making out.
However, why we didn't change tack and accelerate with possession was mystifying. The slow possession works quite well if we are winning and the opponents have to press, but we never changed soon enough.
McGinn did well enough, but the rest were all below the high standards that they have set.
Zaniolo and Kamara were notably poor and Bailey turned in an innocuous half that was more typical of previous seasons.
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If you think we were bad, Liverpool are atrocious against Luton. They'll probably snatch it though with a late goal.
No, but they snatched a draw
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What a great opportunity missed to go third with Fulham to come next week. Fulham were rubbish yesterday so, no doubt they’ll play the game of their lives against us.
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That was my first game I've been to for a good few years and I was surprised how flat the atmosphere in our end was considering how well things are going, maybe it was the early goal or our slow build up play that killed it.
Also I know VAR is crap but atleast when you're watching it on the TV you have some understanding of what's going on with a decision, I hadn't appreciated just how shit it was being at the ground standing there waiting with no understanding of what's going on. Maybe im turning into a bit of a miserable bastard but I don't think I'll be back for a good while again.
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
Exactly.
So why didn’t we change our game plan and mix things up?
Go long, go wide, go bloody quicker !!!!!
Calm down
I’m very calm. Was there any need to be personal and smarmy ?
I’m glad you’re calm, I’m still fucking fuming
You're fucking fuming, I have to watch 'Priscilla' tonight.
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That was my first game I've been to for a good few years and I was surprised how flat the atmosphere in our end was considering how well things are going, maybe it was the early goal or our slow build up play that killed it.
Also I know VAR is crap but atleast when you're watching it on the TV you have some understanding of what's going on with a decision, I hadn't appreciated just how shit it was being at the ground standing there waiting with no understanding of what's going on. Maybe im turning into a bit of a miserable bastard but I don't think I'll be back for a good while again.
I sat in the same place (Brian Clough Stand) as I did a few years ago - the Villa fans drowned out the home fans in that game - I honestly only heard our fans a few times today. The home fans were in very good form.
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You're fucking fuming, I have to watch 'Priscilla' tonight.
Oh that’s easy, just close your eyes and go over the game.
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I think it's been said already, but Forest's plan not to press high or really engage us until we reached the final third was effective. They have some quick and strong players and they didn't look as bad as many were making out.
Luton did the same last week and we stuck to our style of plays and won the game easily. Today was not our day.
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You're fucking fuming, I have to watch 'Priscilla' tonight.
Oh that’s easy, just close your eyes and go over the game.
Ha! I think I'd rather watch the film. Today was one to forget.. until tomorrow, at least for the players and Unai.
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I think it's been said already, but Forest's plan not to press high or really engage us until we reached the final third was effective. They have some quick and strong players and they didn't look as bad as many were making out.
Luton did the same last week and we stuck to our style of plays and won the game easily. Today was not our day.
When we look clueless. We should bring Bert on.
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A really poor result and a totally wasted opportunity. I fear we'll look back at a game against a woeful side like Forest and really rue the lost opportunity come May. That's going to really cost us I fear.
Far too slow against the lowest of low block teams, we no ambition to do anything but rake long diagonals. Two good hits, they were dire and thete to be pulled apart. Yet we failed.
Dominated possession, territory, but despite getting in behind countless times, the final ball was poor. A load of players really off it too.
If Watkins header goes in, they probably panic, but it never looked like falling all half.
Incredibly disappointing. Drawing with Wolves and losing to Forest won't get us top 5.
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I don’t see how a loss in November will be looked back upon as a defining moment in our season.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
No we don’t. Luton and Liverpool draw today. They are 2 pts above us. Need some perspective after today. It’s a shit performance and won’t be the last time we lose.
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Liverpool finished 5th last season and lost at Wolves and Forest.
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The possession is a big red herring, we didn't look like scoring all match and their keeper had it easy for the entire game. We're top of the table for home form this season, but only 13th on away games, so today was by no means a one off.
Yeah, most of that possession was passing it around the defence or Cash / Digne turning back and playing safe.
They blocked up the middle and there was plenty of space out wide. Digne got in a couple of times, but his final.ball was poor. Cash was 1-on-1 with their full-back so many times in the first half, but didnt even attempt to take him once.
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There’s an issue with our away form. Battered by Newcastle and Liverpool, only really looked like beating Chelsea when they had a man sent off, and poor against Wolves and Forest. The set up today was all wrong. Why disrupt a midfield duo like Luiz and Kamara by asking Bouba to play as the 3rd central defender. Cash was abysmal out wide.
Emery has achieved perfection at home but keeps messing it up away. It’s odd.
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Moreno would have made a huge difference attack wise with his pace and delivery. Cash and Digne's final.ball was atrocious. When you consider how many times Digne got in behind 2nd half, we could have put a score on them with more quality there.
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Forest hadn't won for 7 fucking games yet they beat us comfortably.
We are improving in that there's no doubt but we are still a major work in progress.
We need to be honest with ourselves after that result.
No we don’t. We need to calm down after losing a game. Shit happens.
Nah, mate, seriously, Unai is not buying that mentally at all.
Which is exactly why losing a game doesn’t worry me. I’m confident that he won’t tolerate it, & more so, that he’ll work out what to do about it.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
By the same token then if we win games vs teams we are not expected to, doesn’t that have reverse but positive impact on our final position?
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I don’t see how a loss in November will be looked back upon as a defining moment in our season.
Indeed. People just need to calm down. We are still not mature enough as a team to squeeze 3 points out of every situation. It will come, it’s called sustainable success.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
By the same token then if we win games vs teams we are not expected to, doesn’t that have reverse but positive impact on our final position?
It will, but hasn’t happened yet.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
By the same token then if we win games vs teams we are not expected to, doesn’t that have reverse but positive impact on our final position?
It will, but hasn’t happened yet.
Nobody expected us to lose 5-1 at Newcastle but we did. Nobody expected us to win 6-1 vs Brighton. Nobody thought we would win 12 straight at home but we have. There are going to be things that are unexpected that happen. Today was unexpected. Those unexpected things will happen to other sides too. Not just us.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
By the same token then if we win games vs teams we are not expected to, doesn’t that have reverse but positive impact on our final position?
We're looking to finish in the top 5, there's not many games, bar maybe Man City away, where we should feel surprised at winning.
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We can be pretty confident in saying we have the potential to win every match we play - it’s been a long time since that was the case. We won’t win them all, but i bet we’ll win around 20 - 25 games this season.
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Now and then, we're going to throw in a stinker. It's just the way it is. I'm disappointed but I'm not too worried about today's result. There's a hell of a long way to go this season.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
By the same token then if we win games vs teams we are not expected to, doesn’t that have reverse but positive impact on our final position?
It will, but hasn’t happened yet.
Nobody expected us to lose 5-1 at Newcastle but we did. Nobody expected us to win 6-1 vs Brighton. Nobody thought we would win 12 straight at home but we have. There are going to be things that are unexpected that happen. Today was unexpected. Those unexpected things will happen to other sides too. Not just us.
Ignoring the scoreline, a loss away at Newcastle and a home win v Brighton are pretty much as expected. Today wasn't really that unexpected though, we mostly haven't been playing very well away from home. Emery recognises this, and said so before and after today's match.
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Cash has been brilliant for us but, I can see us looking for an upgrade in Jan. With Moreno back after the next international break, we need that on the right.
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I'm a big fan of Cash, but he was atrocious today.
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Haven't read the thread as Im too lazy. Very disappointing result and you would say typical Villa, an opportunity to push on to the top table and we bottle it.
But..
They were superb, incredibly competitive and organised and won loads of the 50/50s, yet were clearly second best all game, we weren't on it but were utterly dominant, missed some sitters, final ball was uniformly crap and our best players were miles off the pace. Yet we were still by far the best side.
Pissed off but much to be confident about
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On a tactical note, I thought Forest were clever in not employing a forward press until our defenders reached the half way line.
This really compressed the midfield and gave little room for Diaby, Zaniolo etc to weave their magic.
We were outthought and outfought today.
My thoughts exactly. Forest were set up in a way that made life very difficult for us.
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I'm a big fan of Cash, but he was atrocious today.
Was he injured? the sky commentator mentioned a shoulder problem. Might be a factor. But it’s also true a 37yr old Ashley Young kept him on the bench parts of last season.
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And the best keeper in the world is beaten from 25 yards. Twice.
Shit happens sometimes.
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I'm a big fan of Cash, but he was atrocious today.
Was he injured? the sky commentator mentioned a shoulder problem. Might be a factor. But it’s also true a 37yr old Ashley Young kept him on the bench parts of last season.
The shoulder injury happened not long before he went off.
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Ugh.
One of those where teams around you drop points and you go 'phew', only to think 'fuck, imagine if we'd won'.
Credit to Forest, they got their dream start and did exactly what they should've. For us, yeah, Zaniolo, Bailey, they didn't play well, but the crucial thing was that Martinez did a rick, Konsa was shaky, and Luiz and Kamara were clumsy.
It's totally normal for good teams to have bad days. It's also normal for a team to overperform and find out later. We'll find out which it is later.
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In the critical moments the quality just wasn’t there today. Zaniola in particular. I don’t think we were that bad and I was impressed that even after we conceded we kept trying to play football the way Emery wants and with control. That’s how we’ve got to continue. The better players we bring in the more controlled and clinical we’ll be. It was just an off day.
On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
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Nearly every team has ropey days. Clearly the away form needs work, but I always thought this would be tough if we weren’t at it. Last season Citeh and Arsenal didn’t win at Forest, they’ve not been great this year but that was close to the best team and it was always going to be tough.
We need to learn, but I wouldn’t read too much into it. Emery is more than capable of working it out.
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Zaniolo disappointed today, but there's some singling him out when to be honest I thought Bailey and Diaby were much worse. Diaby had a horrible game.
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Yeah, Diaby was very disappointing.
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Having to wear such a hideous kit probably doesn’t help.
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On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
Yeah, thought both Duggie and Zaniola didnt put nearly enough effort into closing the space to block the shot
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Yeah, Diaby was very disappointing.
And we know he's normally very good! These things happen. We just hope we learn some lessons from it, come back and put in a good one against Fulham next week.
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YOu have to accept that you are going to lose some games and get shown up, just as we have shown up other teams. However, I do feel that Emery needs to be more demanding when trying to raise our levels.
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A really poor result and a totally wasted opportunity. I fear we'll look back at a game against a woeful side like Forest and really rue the lost opportunity come May. That's going to really cost us I fear.
Far too slow against the lowest of low block teams, we no ambition to do anything but rake long diagonals. Two good hits, they were dire and thete to be pulled apart. Yet we failed.
Dominated possession, territory, but despite getting in behind countless times, the final ball was poor. A load of players really off it too.
If Watkins header goes in, they probably panic, but it never looked like falling all half.
Incredibly disappointing. Drawing with Wolves and losing to Forest won't get us top 5.
The most prescient thing I have read on here.
I can not help thinking that the positive media attention of the last week got to us and we thought we just needed to turn up.
We are no where near good enough to treat an away game at Forest this way and we got what we deserved, nothing.
A few players need to look at themselves over he next few days.
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Having to wear such a hideous kit probably doesn’t help.
horrible
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We weren't very interesting to watch, which is extremely rare, so I ended up tending to aquatic plants.
Too many of our supposed stars looked stoned. That's pretty much about it.
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Having to wear such a hideous kit probably doesn’t help.
horrible
Curse of the 3rd kit again.
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Zaniolo disappointed today, but there's some singling him out when to be honest I thought Bailey and Diaby were much worse. Diaby had a horrible game.
100% this
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We weren't very interesting to watch, which is very rare, so I ended up tending to aquatic plants.
Too many of our supposed stars looked stoned. That's pretty much about it.
How would you know?
;)
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On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
Yeah, thought both Duggie and Zaniola didnt put nearly enough effort into closing the space to block the shot
Has someone hacked me?! I definitely didn’t say that!
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Having to wear such a hideous kit probably doesn’t help.
horrible
Curse of the 3rd kit again.
Tbf the first time we wore it we strolled to victory over Alkmaar
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I don’t see how a loss in November will be looked back upon as a defining moment in our season.
Yep. People seem to have it in their heads Forest are Luton or Sheffield United standard. The league table suggests rather different as does their form at the City Ground in last 12 months.
Liverpool not beating Luton today will be a far more costly result to their ambitions than us losing to Forest come May.
Last season six of the top 9 failed to win at the City Ground.
If in second half of the season we're failing to beat them at home that will be more costly.
Unless Ads thinks we should be in contention for the title, I haven't kept tracked of his posts so far this season.
Beat Fulham and we're on 25 points from 12 played so that's a very comfortable 70 + point season replicated over 36 games.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
Neither will come close to finishing bottom 5.
Edit: Infact it's in our interest for Forest and Wolves to keep up their good form as those are the sort of teams I think will take points off the likes of Spurs, Man. United and Newcastle which will be beneficial to us.
Much worse if we don't win at likes of Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham as season goes on. Those three will finish below Forest and Wolves.
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On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
Yeah, thought both Duggie and Zaniola didnt put nearly enough effort into closing the space to block the shot
Has someone hacked me?! I definitely didn’t say that!
No, no you didn't. Leon did. apologies
No idea how I managed to quote you.
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On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
Yeah, thought both Duggie and Zaniola didnt put nearly enough effort into closing the space to block the shot
Has someone hacked me?! I definitely didn’t say that!
No, no you didn't. Leon did. apologies
No idea how I managed to quote you.
Was definitely me.
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I'm a big fan of Cash, but he was atrocious today.
Was he injured? the sky commentator mentioned a shoulder problem. Might be a factor. But it’s also true a 37yr old Ashley Young kept him on the bench parts of last season.
He only didn't play after the World cup break (same reasons as Martinez) and then he picked up a knock in January and took some time to get back in. Virtually been an ever present since Arsenal at home in February so it's a bit of myth that's formed that Emery dosen't rate him.
Forgot about the injury he picked up for Poland but Emery put him in for Liverpool away and Brighton home which says it all.
He has his critics but you only have to see Chambers throw in that disgrace of a performance in Warsaw at right back to see we could have far worse in that position on a regular basis so I'm o.k to go with him and then have a proper upgrade next summer.
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
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On Zaniola, I’m going to say now that I don’t think it’s going to work for him here and I’m not sure he’s really capable of cutting it in the premier league. Was also disappointed that he decided to stop tracking his man who scored Forest’s first goal.
Yeah, thought both Duggie and Zaniola didnt put nearly enough effort into closing the space to block the shot
Has someone hacked me?! I definitely didn’t say that!
No, no you didn't. Leon did. apologies
No idea how I managed to quote you.
No worries 😌
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It’s pretty obvious where we need to strengthen. Just a question of finance and sentimentality.
Need the same depth at right back as left back.
Zaniolo and Bailey are adequate subs, but no more.
When we have buendia and JJ available, this will become reality.
Watkins is good but he needs competition. If Kane was playing for us today, we would have won.
Martinez- difficult one. I’m sure we can do better, but we could do a lot worse. Not a priority.
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
But I was under the impression he often went down the right and he liked to attack
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It’s pretty obvious where we need to strengthen. Just a question of finance and sentimentality.
Need the same depth at right back as left back.
Zaniolo and Bailey are adequate subs, but no more.
When we have buendia and JJ available, this will become reality.
Watkins is good but he needs competition. If Kane was playing for us today, we would have won.
Martinez- difficult one. I’m sure we can do better, but we could do a lot worse. Not a priority.
Seriously!?!
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Some people have lost their heads a bit here.
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Um, yup strange comment that.
He made a mistake. Once. This season
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
I thought that he played the ball back far too early, he could have got us up the pitch another 20 yards but didnt. If he did that, then the long Xfield to Digne could have been more effective.
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It’s pretty obvious where we need to strengthen. Just a question of finance and sentimentality.
Need the same depth at right back as left back.
We currently have no backup for Right Back and Left Back so we do currently have the same depth.
Zaniolo and Bailey are adequate subs, but no more.
When we have buendia and JJ available, this will become reality.
Well we have to wait probably a year for Buendia and no idea on JJ whose feet have suddenly become fine china. But Bailey normally plays the other side then them.
Watkins is good but he needs competition. If Kane was playing for us today, we would have won.
If Kane was playing for us, he would have left us years ago when we got relegated. However currently there is no way we would be purchasing a Kane level striker ahead of a lot of currently better teams in Europe. However Spurs also lost plenty of games like today with Kane in the side.
Martinez- difficult one. I’m sure we can do better, but we could do a lot worse. Not a priority.
Better then a the current goalie of the World Champions, and Ballon D'Or winner? Really narrows down the field to about two, one of which might not want to leave Man City.
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
I thought that he played the ball back far too early, he could have got us up the pitch another 20 yards but didnt. If he did that, then the long Xfield to Digne could have been more effective.
As he consistently did it, was it team orders?
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
I thought that he played the ball back far too early, he could have got us up the pitch another 20 yards but didnt. If he did that, then the long Xfield to Digne could have been more effective.
As he consistently did it, was it team orders?
We rarely ran past the defender or even passed by the last defender and therefore made it easy for Forest to defend.
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That Martinez comment is absolute bonkers. Why do some people lose some kind of rational thinking when we lose a game of football?
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Some people have lost their heads a bit here.
It’s all bit nuts that a defeat, a very rare thing for us nowadays has created this much content and borderline hysteria by some. Defeats are always disappointing but it’s not like we’re on some sort of death spin run of bad performances. It’s the first in a good while.
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I like Cash, but fuck me, how many times does he get loads of space down the right and never whip a ball in? always backwards inside to Konsa.
Forest had stacked their box with big lumps so Im not sure crossing from deep was ever going to work. granted our best chance was off a McGinn cross. Alan Smith was saying on co comm that Cash was carrying a knock second half. He didnt look right anyway, fell over like he was drunk in our box second half. Kamara and Konsa didnt fare much better.
Cash is ok going forward, fine assist v Brighton but could do more. Has no competition for his spot.
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We'd have won with Olsen in goal, hopefully he starts the next few games.
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A disappointing day all round. Forest ar hard to beat at home so conceding early in each half gave them confidence and something to protect and also encouraged their crowd, who were excellent.
I thought we were lethargic first half and Forest seemed to be happy not to press until we reached the halfway line. This compressed the game meaning we had little space in which to play and we rarely got behind them, making it easy for them to defend. I thought McGinn tried to drive us on with several decent cross field passes to Digne but from quite early on it just felt like one of those days. Our shooting efforts merely reinforced this.
I hadn’t been to Forest for 30 years, since the McGrath game in 1993, and it is much noisier and more raucous than my previous visits. Probably to be expected after 20 years in the wilderness, but as an away fan I’d say that is the noisiest home support I’ve heard in the premier league in many years. In contrast I thought our support was very subdued.
A final shout out to LNER who managed to cancel trains both to and from Nottingham today, with my 9.30am from Kings X being cancelled at 11.30 last night. It shouldn’t take 3 hours to do a simple 130 mile trip to one of the biggest cities in Britain and the different train companies not allowing you to access rival companies’ trains is farcical.
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A shit result, dominated possession, didnt create too much, one of them. If we beat Fulham, spurs and bournemouth, i doubt very much anyone will be looking back thinking ‘shit, losing 0-2 at Forest has fucked up our chances of champions league’.
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What annoyed me most was how passive we were. We got shoved off the ball lots of times without complaints.( The ref was piss poor but usual PL standard)
No aggression no fight nothing and this is a bigger issue than our tactical deficiencies today.
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We missed Ramsey and Moreno badly today and their ability to run past players. Our squad looked a bit light today with no replacement for Cash or Watkins really. Carrying the likes of Chambers, Traore and Donk that Emery clearly doesnt rate.
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What annoyed me most was how passive we were. We got shoved off the ball lots of times without complaints.( The ref was piss poor but usual PL standard)
No aggression no fight nothing and this is a bigger issue than our tactical deficiencies today.
At times the fervour of Forest and their players’ physicality made it feel like an away game in the cup. I don’t think we’re were ever comfortable physically in the contest.
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A final shout out to LNER who managed to cancel trains both to and from Nottingham today, with my 9.30am from Kings X being cancelled at 11.30 last night. It shouldn’t take 3 hours to do a simple 130 mile trip to one of the biggest cities in Britain and the different train companies not allowing you to access rival companies’ trains is farcical.
Our Transport system is shambolic compared to what we saw in Netherlands at the AZ game. I hope you are safely home now?
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What annoyed me most was how passive we were. We got shoved off the ball lots of times without complaints.( The ref was piss poor but usual PL standard)
No aggression no fight nothing and this is a bigger issue than our tactical deficiencies today.
At times the fervour of Forest and their players’ physicality made it feel like an away game in the cup. I don’t think we’re were ever comfortable physically in the contest.
The thing I don’t get is Luton are if anything more physical and yet we nullified all that last week with ease?
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A final shout out to LNER who managed to cancel trains both to and from Nottingham today, with my 9.30am from Kings X being cancelled at 11.30 last night. It shouldn’t take 3 hours to do a simple 130 mile trip to one of the biggest cities in Britain and the different train companies not allowing you to access rival companies’ trains is farcical.
We were going to get the train to Nottingham today so we could have a couple of beers beforehand, but what would normally be a half an journey from Market Harborough was going to need a bus replacement and a change at Leicester and would take over two hours. To do 30 odd miles. Load of shite, so drove instead, 40 minutes and I was home.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
He's clearly lacking confidence in front of goal and going for his dribbles. What I'd say is that, whenever he next plays, he deserves the chance to play in his actual position i.e. the one Bailey shit the bed in all second half. I've watched the guy for several years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen him play anything like this left-side role, and for all that he must be doing something good for Unai to keep playing him there he looks so uncomfortable, every time he receives the ball his body position's all awkward.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
He's clearly lacking confidence in front of goal and going for his dribbles. What I'd say is that, whenever he next plays, he deserves the chance to play in his actual position i.e. the one Bailey shit the bed in all second half. I've watched the guy for several years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen him play anything like this left-side role, and for all that he must be doing something good for Unai to keep playing him there he looks so uncomfortable, every time he receives the ball his body position's all awkward.
McGinn is our first choice right sided midfielder though, and I wouldn't be shifting him to accommodate Zaniolo.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
He's clearly lacking confidence in front of goal and going for his dribbles. What I'd say is that, whenever he next plays, he deserves the chance to play in his actual position i.e. the one Bailey shit the bed in all second half. I've watched the guy for several years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen him play anything like this left-side role, and for all that he must be doing something good for Unai to keep playing him there he looks so uncomfortable, every time he receives the ball his body position's all awkward.
McGinn is our first choice right sided midfielder though, and I wouldn't be shifting him to accommodate Zaniolo.
But doing so to accommodate Bailey at his flaily worst is cool? McGinn plays a hybrid role, stepping inside to play a kind of inside-centre midfield role, and he can do that fine either side.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
He's clearly lacking confidence in front of goal and going for his dribbles. What I'd say is that, whenever he next plays, he deserves the chance to play in his actual position i.e. the one Bailey shit the bed in all second half. I've watched the guy for several years and I'm pretty sure I've never seen him play anything like this left-side role, and for all that he must be doing something good for Unai to keep playing him there he looks so uncomfortable, every time he receives the ball his body position's all awkward.
McGinn is our first choice right sided midfielder though, and I wouldn't be shifting him to accommodate Zaniolo.
I’d rather just play a more compact midfield unit with Tielemans in there until JJ gets back.
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Quick mention for the KO time , Sunday 2pm games really are wank. I hate Sunday games full stop but I'd much prefer the 430pm slot under the lights as the crowd seem more up for it at these . The 2pm slot is a nothing slot and the crowd seem half asleep. The away end was so quiet today .
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Quick mention for the KO time , Sunday 2pm games really are wank. I hate Sunday games full stop but I'd much prefer the 430pm slot under the lights as the crowd seem more up for it at these . The 2pm slot is a nothing slot and the crowd seem half asleep. The away end was so quiet today .
The fact that Forest fans were loud and boisterous totally destroys your argument.
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A final shout out to LNER who managed to cancel trains both to and from Nottingham today, with my 9.30am from Kings X being cancelled at 11.30 last night. It shouldn’t take 3 hours to do a simple 130 mile trip to one of the biggest cities in Britain and the different train companies not allowing you to access rival companies’ trains is farcical.
We were going to get the train to Nottingham today so we could have a couple of beers beforehand, but what would normally be a half an journey from Market Harborough was going to need a bus replacement and a change at Leicester and would take over two hours. To do 30 odd miles. Load of shite, so drove instead, 40 minutes and I was home.
It’s mad isn’t it? Our transport infrastructure is very creaky and inefficient. The train up this morning involved a change of plan so I had to spend an hour in Grantham waiting for a connection. I may be doing it a disservice but from my jaunt around the town it seemed extraordinarily dull.
Aftab, the journey home was made easier by jumping on a train we were told we couldn’t board. Still had to spend another 40 minutes in Grantham though. I can see why Thatcher was so tetchy.
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Quick mention for the KO time , Sunday 2pm games really are wank. I hate Sunday games full stop but I'd much prefer the 430pm slot under the lights as the crowd seem more up for it at these . The 2pm slot is a nothing slot and the crowd seem half asleep. The away end was so quiet today .
The fact that Forest fans were loud and boisterous totally destroys your argument.
Don't care about them , I'm talking about villa fans.
Villa park was flat last week too , totally outsung by luton fans in another Sunday 2pm KO
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Now you are destroying your own argument Tim😊
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Now you are destroying your own argument Tim😊
Genuinely villa park was flat and compare it to the 430pm v West Ham it's chalk and cheese
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
Neither will come close to finishing bottom 5.
Edit: Infact it's in our interest for Forest and Wolves to keep up their good form as those are the sort of teams I think will take points off the likes of Spurs, Man. United and Newcastle which will be beneficial to us.
Much worse if we don't win at likes of Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham as season goes on. Those three will finish below Forest and Wolves.
They came 5th bottom last season and started the day there. They'll be very close to it again. Today was their 2nd home win since beating Sheffield United in August. They're a poor side and we ought to have found a way to win. Giving up points in games like that will make it harder to finish in the top 5.
3 out of the next 5 fixtures could show just how costly today's failure was.
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Liverpool have also only won 2 away games this season, Newcastle have won 1. Liverpool lost at both Forest and Wolves last season and finished 5th. The result today will not decide our season.
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And today, the 6th, is the first anniversary of Villa 3 Man Utd 1. Unai's first game. Where we are a year later, and what we did for that year, is far beyond what anyone could realistically have hoped for. We aren't the finsished product yet but we are heading in the right direction. Some of the reaction to a first defeat for 2 months is a tad ott in my opinion.
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Watching that second goal again, Martinez could simply have stood there and caught that shot. No need at all to dive, and no need to go for it with one hand.
I said exactly that to my pal watching the game. I love Emi and he gets a pass due to the amount of games he's kept us in but the truth is his showboating cost us dearly there. A basic save was all he needed to do. The timing couldn't have been worse either so soon after the restart. Having said all that both goals came from shots from outside the box with little or no pressure put on their player. I'm sure the boss will be pointing these things out on the training ground.
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Poor display from the team, thought both Zaniolo and Bailey were very poor and made no impact on the game (hopefully Ramsey will soon be fit)
We could still be playing now and would not have scored, for me we needed a Peter Withe type of centre forward yesterday, to bring more physical presence to our attack. Their centre halves dominated our attack.
Hopefully we will win both our home games this week.
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Forest were outstanding. This was every bit as much if not more down to them nullifying us than us being mediocre and listless. We looked better with Tielemans on, but never ever our day, fair play to Forest.
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Zaniolo has the brain of a top footballer, always seems to find space, Like most i was disappointed but for him not by him yesterday. He looks to me like a player whose body can't react as quick as his brain. Didn't he have a bad injury a while back?, I would take the pressure off him and give him time from the bench, it takes some players longer to settle.
Yes, he takes up some clever positions, but is so wasteful at times.
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And today, the 6th, is the first anniversary of Villa 3 Man Utd 1. Unai's first game. Where we are a year later, and what we did for that year, is far beyond what anyone could realistically have hoped for. We aren't the finsished product yet but we are heading in the right direction. Some of the reaction to a first defeat for 2 months is a tad ott in my opinion.
Indeed and I don’t buy the argument this’ll define our season. I also suspect we’ll see a number of top teams struggle to win there.
Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a shoddy performance, but that does happen sometimes, we just need to react in the right way.
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I know it was late on and didn’t really matter but what was the reasoning in bringing Dendoncker on?
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We were slow moving the ball and didn’t seem to compete physically. There seemed a collective brain freeze in front of goal, no one taking amy opportunity presented. We were poor playing out wide. We were very timid.
It’s not a season defining loss. They will comfortably stay up and we will comfortably finish ahead of them. Where we finish will be better defined by how we do against those around us … which has been poor away (newcastle and Liverpool) and good at home (Brighton and West Ham).
Overall our away form as a whole concerns me more than this one result.
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I guess we’re not title contenders so we are not going to get points at every match and we will have the odd bump. Hopefully we’ll put it all right in the next match as it’s easy to get used to winning every week.
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And today, the 6th, is the first anniversary of Villa 3 Man Utd 1. Unai's first game. Where we are a year later, and what we did for that year, is far beyond what anyone could realistically have hoped for. We aren't the finsished product yet but we are heading in the right direction. Some of the reaction to a first defeat for 2 months is a tad ott in my opinion.
Indeed and I don’t buy the argument this’ll define our season. I also suspect we’ll see a number of top teams struggle to win there.
Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a shoddy performance, but that does happen sometimes, we just need to react in the right way.
Yes the reaction needs to be swift and hopefully we'll see that in the next week.
Hugely unpopular I know but Forest deserve credit for stopping the form side in their tracks.
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I do. As there's minimal margin for error with the quality in the top 5 or 6. If we're not putting to bed bottom 5 filth like Forest, lumbering against Wolves, then we have a problem.
Neither will come close to finishing bottom 5.
Edit: Infact it's in our interest for Forest and Wolves to keep up their good form as those are the sort of teams I think will take points off the likes of Spurs, Man. United and Newcastle which will be beneficial to us.
Much worse if we don't win at likes of Bournemouth, Everton and Fulham as season goes on. Those three will finish below Forest and Wolves.
They came 5th bottom last season and started the day there. They'll be very close to it again. Today was their 2nd home win since beating Sheffield United in August. They're a poor side and we ought to have found a way to win. Giving up points in games like that will make it harder to finish in the top 5.
3 out of the next 5 fixtures could show just how costly today's failure was.
They did finish bottom 5 but that’s largely down to their awful away form. They only last 5 at home last year, they’ve been a bit shaky this year but they’ve got some important players back now. We needed to be right at it, and we weren’t which is disappointing, but they are not an easy team to play at home generally.
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We dont have a god given right to win every game. Liverpool dropped points against a team we 'put to bed' last week. Every team will come a cropper at some point. It's gone, let's see how we bounce back, which under Umery tends to be very quickly.
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We dont have a god given right to win every game. Liverpool dropped points against a team we 'put to bed' last week. Every team will come a cropper at some point. It's gone, let's see how we bounce back, which under Umery tends to be very quickly.
Indeed. If we keep losing, and in a similar manner to how we did yesterday, then we'll look back on this as indeed a rough turning point. If we bounce back, it'll be just one of those days.
God though, we could've been third this morning. That's a real kick to the guts to think about!
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Oh well can’t win them all.
Trouble is it felt like we could. 😉
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We were lethargic and boring. Ineptitude gone wild.
I don't like any of our players today, but by this time next week, I'll be estatic with them.
I hope.
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I know it was late on and didn’t really matter but what was the reasoning in bringing Dendoncker on?
Possibly Emery giving a nudge to the owners.
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I know it was late on and didn’t really matter but what was the reasoning in bringing Dendoncker on?
Possibly Emery giving a nudge to the owners.
Why would he need to do that?
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Martinez: Yes it was a goalie error. Otherwise, comfortable.
Cash - Poor game, blunders in defence for goals, possible injury as a result of inadequate defence. Was given the go-ahead to get forward and be high up the pitch with and without the ball with Kamara dropping in, but didn't appear to know how to take on defenders and was tentative. Put this down to a bad day, but Emery isn't convinced. And neither am I long term.
Konsa - Was one of the guys Forest wanted to have possession of the ball. Was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back. The less creative centre back
Torres- best defensive player with excellent passing range. A classy player. In the second half, Pau slid a delightful ball through for Digne. Oh my goodness, it was sublime. I adore him.
Digne - Just no . He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football.
McGinn- He created a fantastic opportunity for Watkins. He demonstrated his tenacity and grit in the second half as he outplayed a couple players and drove the team on. He was the main man in showing not wanting to lose.
Super John McGinn takes some credit for me.
Kamara - Forest allowed Kamara have a lot of the ball and didn't engage him much in the first half. As Cash advanced, he'd find himself in a right back cover duty. However, he was mixed in playing this role, and I believe he and Cash were perplexed by it all. Far too slow on the ball like Konsa in passing. After being booked having forced to play right side defence, for Cash he too was replaced.
He's the least creative midfielder. Classy player but Forest knew to let him like Konsa have the ball
Luiz -The most frustrating game I felt for him you could see his frustration. He wasn't protected by the ref, and Forest had a plan not to allow him have the ball so much in any dangerous situation, thus it was with Kamara. Due to the bustling nature of Forest midfielders and the ball and space being offered to other Villa players rather than Douglas, his influencing was not there. The ball was not delivered to him quickly enough when there were chances too but Forest shackled him well and stopped it generally.
A true sign how he's seen as a main danger and Douglas is a class act will have to get use to these tactics and look to exert his authority and Emery will find a plan to make sure he's involved more and not have a game like this.
Zaniolo- I'm still not convinced and hasn't done anything to change my view. I've mentioned that he's not suited to Emery football, and this was another evidence. I'd rather he didn't start games. Doesn't cover himself in glory for lack of effort in the goal conceded and doesn't seem to connect with Watkins in link up or make any moves to assist him. Tbf on one occasion, he made a lovely through ball to Digne and I don't deny he possesses ability, but he is not making himself available and moving without the ball. I simply don't see him being in the team on a permanent basis especially as attacking threat is beyond weak. Harsh but true.
Diaby- Difficult circumstances for Diaby, with limited spaces. Engineered a chance and forced a save, but defenders crowded him out. Class act who will deliver once again. Next time.
Watkins- Unfortunate with the headed chance and wasn't given quality service. Mainly due to any creating coming from abundance of poor crosses from Digne . Frustrating afternoon for him. Felt for him
Subs:
Bailey - Turned into some sort of target man for headed opportunities from Digne crossing.
Showed more attacking intent and ability than Zaniolo and tried to make a few things happen. Perhaps should have started
Tielemans- despite being a replacement had a great showing being a creator in chief and making several astute passes through the lines
Left me wondering should he have started or come on sooner ?
Exactly the sort of midfield play we needed against Forest.
Carlos and Dendocker also came on.
Solid if not spectacular. Impact negligible. Neutral to both on performance on the pitch.
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I know it was late on and didn’t really matter but what was the reasoning in bringing Dendoncker on?
Possibly Emery giving a nudge to the owners.
Why would he need to do that?
I believe he was bought on to get on the end of set pieces by that time we had run out of ideas.
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I know it was late on and didn’t really matter but what was the reasoning in bringing Dendoncker on?
Possibly Emery giving a nudge to the owners.
more likely a nudge to Luiz who was poor.
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Martinez: Yes it was a goalie error. Otherwise, comfortable.
Cash - Poor game, blunders in defence for goals, possible injury as a result of inadequate defence. Was given the go-ahead to get forward and be high up the pitch with and without the ball with Kamara dropping in, but didn't appear to know how to take on defenders and was tentative. Put this down to a bad day, but Emery isn't convinced. And neither am I long term.
Konsa - Was one of the guys Forest wanted to have possession of the ball. Was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back. The less creative centre back
Torres- best defensive player with excellent passing range. A classy player. In the second half, Pau slid a delightful ball through for Digne. Oh my goodness, it was sublime. I adore him.
Digne - Just no . He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football.
McGinn- He created a fantastic opportunity for Watkins. He demonstrated his tenacity and grit in the second half as he outplayed a couple players and drove the team on. He was the main man in showing not wanting to lose.
Super John McGinn takes some credit for me.
Kamara - Forest allowed Kamara have a lot of the ball and didn't engage him much in the first half. As Cash advanced, he'd find himself in a right back cover duty. However, he was mixed in playing this role, and I believe he and Cash were perplexed by it all. Far too slow on the ball like Konsa in passing. After being booked having forced to play right side defence, for Cash he too was replaced.
He's the least creative midfielder. Classy player but Forest knew to let him like Konsa have the ball
Luiz -The most frustrating game I felt for him you could see his frustration. He wasn't protected by the ref, and Forest had a plan not to allow him have the ball so much in any dangerous situation, thus it was with Kamara. Due to the bustling nature of Forest midfielders and the ball and space being offered to other Villa players rather than Douglas, his influencing was not there. The ball was not delivered to him quickly enough when there were chances too but Forest shackled him well and stopped it generally.
A true sign how he's seen as a main danger and Douglas is a class act will have to get use to these tactics and look to exert his authority and Emery will find a plan to make sure he's involved more and not have a game like this.
Zaniolo- I'm still not convinced and hasn't done anything to change my view. I've mentioned that he's not suited to Emery football, and this was another evidence. I'd rather he didn't start games. Doesn't cover himself in glory for lack of effort in the goal conceded and doesn't seem to connect with Watkins in link up or make any moves to assist him. Tbf on one occasion, he made a lovely through ball to Digne and I don't deny he possesses ability, but he is not making himself available and moving without the ball. I simply don't see him being in the team on a permanent basis especially as attacking threat is beyond weak. Harsh but true.
Diaby- Difficult circumstances for Diaby, with limited spaces. Engineered a chance and forced a save, but defenders crowded him out. Class act who will deliver once again. Next time.
Watkins- Unfortunate with the headed chance and wasn't given quality service. Mainly due to any creating coming from abundance of poor crosses from Digne . Frustrating afternoon for him. Felt for him
Subs:
Bailey - Turned into some sort of target man for headed opportunities from Digne crossing.
Showed more attacking intent and ability than Zaniolo and tried to make a few things happen. Perhaps should have started
Tielemans- despite being a replacement had a great showing being a creator in chief and making several astute passes through the lines
Left me wondering should he have started or come on sooner ?
Exactly the sort of midfield play we needed against Forest.
Carlos and Dendocker also came on.
Solid if not spectacular. Impact negligible. Neutral to both on performance on the pitch.
Largely agree with most of this
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And me
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Pretty good assessment, I would add Watkins touch and hold up play poor.
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Pretty good assessment, I would add Watkins touch and hold up play poor.
In fairness to Watkins, the ref was letting the centre half practice his 'nightclub bouncing' on him.
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Whoscored had Digne as comfortably our best player, and the BBC fans' scores had him second behind McGinn, which I'd agree with. None of the team were great, but Digne wasn't the problem yesterday.
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No, he absolutely wasn't, but that cross in the last 10 minutes when he'd got to the byline then chipped it back out past everyone to the edge of their box drove me nuts and encapsulated the entire team performance.
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Pretty good assessment, I would add Watkins touch and hold up play poor.
In fairness to Watkins, the ref was letting the centre half practice his 'nightclub bouncing' on him.
They were. This type of team (big, strong, aggressive counter attacking) is our current achilles heel. We've either got to sign a couple of players who are suited to these games in January, or do a much better job of letting match officials know that were being strong-armed. If some of the challenges on Watkins yesterday were being doled out to, say, Gabriel Jesus there would be far more of that happening on the pitch and the touchline. I'm certainly not saying I want Emery to channel his inner Arteta, but we are too passive / nice at times I think.
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Pretty good assessment, I would add Watkins touch and hold up play poor.
In fairness to Watkins, the ref was letting the centre half practice his 'nightclub bouncing' on him.
Another ref that thinks letting the game flow means allowing players to push and shove, it started from the first minute, Zaniolo was dragged back 3 times, ref waved play on and Forest thought great.
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No, he absolutely wasn't, but that cross in the last 10 minutes when he'd got to the byline then chipped it back out past everyone to the edge of their box drove me nuts and encapsulated the entire team performance.
I thought a dodgy second half in general with a few poor crosses but you can’t fault his effort and he constantly gets into positions where he can deliver. Like most of them, just not his day.
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Urgh I have not felt like this on a Monday morning for a while
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I just wish we'd move the ball quicker when chasing the game. 20 neat passes in the middle of the park is great when you're on top but when chasing the game plays right into the opposition's hands.
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Im calmer today.
Bad day at the office.
Hopefully we can draw a line under it & move forward...
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I just wish we'd move the ball quicker when chasing the game. 20 neat passes in the middle of the park is great when you're on top but when chasing the game plays right into the opposition's hands.
Yes drives me mad as well. I buy fully into Emery's methods, but when you're losing and into the last 20 seconds of extra time, it's not the best time to be putting your foot on the ball for 10 seconds before then playing it back to a centre half.
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Whoscored had Digne as comfortably our best player, and the BBC fans' scores had him second behind McGinn, which I'd agree with. None of the team were great, but Digne wasn't the problem yesterday.
No, he absolutely wasn't, but that cross in the last 10 minutes when he'd got to the byline then chipped it back out past everyone to the edge of their box drove me nuts and encapsulated the entire team performance.
Digne's only desire is to get it into the box. I know it's playing to his strengths, but those strengths were discovered to be insufficient yesterday and it enraged me.
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Digne had an 88% pass completion, made the most key passes, had the most tackles in our team, won the most aerial duels and made the third most passes after Torres and Luiz.
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Your blurb
No point recreating all your text.
I disagree on your assessment of 3 players:
1. Digne - did fine, in the main. His freedom on the left was not supported by good movement from the front three.
2. Konsa - did nothing wrong and became more creative through the 2nd half.
3. Kamara - it was clearly the plan for him to play as part of a back 3; nothing wrong with that.
The problem yesterday was that we were weak in the middle of the park. Playing a back 3 is fine except that when we're light in the middle we will get exploited. Forest's plan to put the ball over the top would have been stymied if we'd been stronger in the middle. If Emery wants a back 3 when in possession, he should start with Tielemans rather than Z.
Furthermore, we conceded two piss-poor goals: Martinez gifted the 2nd goal from a speculative shot. The first was down to Z not tracking back and Martinez not seeing it early enough.
Shit happens.
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Yeah I thought Digne was clearly one of our few bright spots.
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Felt a bit yesterday like I did after that period with the losses to Leicester and Arsenal last year. Look what happened after those, mind.
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Yeah I thought Digne was clearly one of our few bright spots.
Me too, can't remember last time he got so much of the ball, either.
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Yup, same here, maybe him shanking that late one into the stand makes people view his overall contribution negatively. I thought he was possibly our best player.
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Emi Martinez being beaten by 2 long range shots - is not a sentence I thought I'd ever have to type.
That, combined with the lukewarm performance by the rest of the team made for a disappointing afternoon.
As a one off, then fair enough, it happens occasionally; and I can't say I'm worried it will become a trademark performance.
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Two other things I will take from the game, whoever scored for their first will never score a goal like that again in his life. It was a really well hit shot mind. The other is that Martinez will not make such an error again as he did for the 2nd.
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We struggle against muscle and deep defensive sides, there was little invention just passing to each other.
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Emi Martinez being beaten by 2 long range shots - is not a sentence I thought I'd ever have to type.
That, combined with the lukewarm performance by the rest of the team made for a disappointing afternoon.
As a one off, then fair enough, it happens occasionally; and I can't say I'm worried it will become a trademark performance.
In terms of away games, it wasn't really a one off though. The standard of the opposition was weaker perhaps, but we've mostly played quite badly away. Certainly nowhere near the heights at home. Yesterday, Liverpool and Newcastle were poor performances and results. Wolves was a mediocre performance and result. Chelsea was a mediocre performance helped by a sending off with a good result. At home, the only less than stellar game was Palace, and yet we still won 3-1. Everything else at Villa Park we've been sensational.
It would help if Emery didn't keep buggering about with the formation and/or lineup away from home, it's just not working.
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Emi Martinez being beaten by 2 long range shots - is not a sentence I thought I'd ever have to type.
That, combined with the lukewarm performance by the rest of the team made for a disappointing afternoon.
As a one off, then fair enough, it happens occasionally; and I can't say I'm worried it will become a trademark performance.
In terms of away games, it wasn't really a one off though. The standard of the opposition was weaker perhaps, but we've mostly played quite badly away. Certainly nowhere near the heights at home. Yesterday, Liverpool and Newcastle were poor performances and results. Wolves was a mediocre performance and result. Chelsea was a mediocre performance helped by a sending off with a good result. At home, the only less than stellar game was Palace, and yet we still won 3-1. Everything else at Villa Park we've been sensational.
It would help if Emery didn't keep buggering about with the formation and/or lineup away from home, it's just not working.
Completely unchanged team and formation?
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Spoilt my Sunday! But hey-ho we move on.
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.. It would help if Emery didn't keep buggering about with the formation and/or lineup away from home, it's just not working.
The problem yesterday was that we were weak in the middle of the park. Playing a back 3 is fine except that when we're light in the middle we will get exploited. Forest's plan to put the ball over the top would have been stymied if we'd been stronger in the middle. If Emery wants a back 3 when in possession, he should start with Tielemans rather than Z.
Furthermore, we conceded two piss-poor goals: Martinez gifted the 2nd goal from a speculative shot. The first was down to Z not tracking back and Martinez not seeing it early enough.
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Emi Martinez being beaten by 2 long range shots - is not a sentence I thought I'd ever have to type.
That, combined with the lukewarm performance by the rest of the team made for a disappointing afternoon.
As a one off, then fair enough, it happens occasionally; and I can't say I'm worried it will become a trademark performance.
In terms of away games, it wasn't really a one off though. The standard of the opposition was weaker perhaps, but we've mostly played quite badly away. Certainly nowhere near the heights at home. Yesterday, Liverpool and Newcastle were poor performances and results. Wolves was a mediocre performance and result. Chelsea was a mediocre performance helped by a sending off with a good result. At home, the only less than stellar game was Palace, and yet we still won 3-1. Everything else at Villa Park we've been sensational.
It would help if Emery didn't keep buggering about with the formation and/or lineup away from home, it's just not working.
Fair enough, yet we didn't score which is our trademark performance, irrespective of the result; Liverpool aside, there have been very few games where we have not scored and that is why I'm not worried about a poor away day ending in Villa-0
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There was just no need for three at the back. It made our usually world-class pairing of Luiz and Kamara look like Laurel and Hardy in comparison to their usual composed selves. Cash was stuck out on the wing doing not very much, and doing it very badly, plus Watkins and Diaby were crowded out the entire game because we were just so slow in getting the ball forward. And to counter what, the fearsome Nottingham Forest forward line?
It was clear it wasn't working pretty much from the word go. It's just really, really annoying, especially given the results for teams around us. I can handle losing if we've given it a good go, but that formation knackered us completely and we were a shambles.
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But...we always have a central midfielder pushing back when we have the ball. Always.
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We don't have one playing in defence, not at home we don't. You know, where we win all our games. Luiz and Kamara usually work in perfect harmony, yesterday Luiz was having to do a lot more of the donkey work, and mostly didn't seem to know where he was supposed to be, eg for their goal.
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Maybe I was watching a different game, but I didn't see a lot of change from the normal tactics until the second half. Indeed, looking at the average positions, Kamara was as so often deeper than Luiz but hardly to a degree out of the ordinary:
(https://i.ibb.co/FqdML7n/tacticalformation-2367645-7-2.png) (https://ibb.co/FqdML7n)
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Your blurb
No point recreating all your text.
I disagree on your assessment of 3 players:
1. Digne - did fine, in the main. His freedom on the left was not supported by good movement from the front three.
2. Konsa - did nothing wrong and became more creative through the 2nd half.
3. Kamara - it was clearly the plan for him to play as part of a back 3; nothing wrong with that.
Above.
That fails to consider the context of what I've observed. You're only offering opinions.
So let's see how far you disagree after discussing.
So to remind you then you're actually disagreeing that upon observations yesterday
Digne He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
So you're saying his 11 crosses were not wasteful and he made the most of the space afforded to him. Forgive me but he did not make any goal contributions or effectively threaten with his attacking play when he kept kicking the ball into the box?
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football
You're arguing the case that Digne is first choice? If both are fit.
Konsa and Kamara:
They were the players who Forest allowed the ball. You don't think Konsa was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back? The less creative centre back that is my observation . I don't see you're argument against it. Entitle to disagree but in debating or discussing the statement I made.
And you disagree Kamara He's the least creative midfielder. ????
And if you disagree on all I wrote in assessment it's impossible to say that because Kamara got booked you can't disagree that's a fact.
Fine if you're not of the same opinion as I that Forest identify Kamara and Konsa as lesser ball players and creative players than Douglas Luiz and Pau Torres?
So you're arguing a case that they are. And disagree with them being least creative.
Therefore, I don't think you believe how I assessed anything inaccurately and did not make it obvious what you disagree with in discussion. Instead what , I think you just expressed your assessment on these 3 players and how you observed the players, while ignoring the context of my analysis or debating what I said.
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I need a lie-down.
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Maybe I was watching a different game, but I didn't see a lot of change from the normal tactics until the second half. Indeed, looking at the average positions, Kamara was as so often deeper than Luiz but hardly to a degree out of the ordinary:
(https://i.ibb.co/FqdML7n/tacticalformation-2367645-7-2.png) (https://ibb.co/FqdML7n)
We changed things second half, as I've already said. And the average positions are weighted by the fact that we had almost all of the possession second half, as we ineffectively passed it around ourselves without bothering them a jot.
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OK well, second half, he was trying to counter the overload that led to most of the attacks we faced, so tbh I thought it worked enough. It's just that we couldn't get through their 20-man defensive block.
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20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.
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So to remind you then you're actually disagreeing that upon observations yesterday
Digne He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
So you're saying his 11 crosses were not wasteful and he made the most of the space afforded to him. Forgive me but he did not make any goal contributions or effectively threaten with his attacking play when he kept kicking the ball into the box?
So it was Digne's fault that Cash didn't head the ball properly? Does that mean it was McGinn's fault for playing the ball to Watkins when he didn't head the ball?
A player cannot create a goal if the receiving player doesn't do enough to score from it.
And was it Digne's attacking play or Luiz which led to the cross for Diaby's chance? Did we have enough people making the runs for Digne to find like that or did we not so he had to cross. Afterall, you and others were crucifying Cash for passing back rather then crossing, and you seem to be crucifying Digne for crossing instead of passing back?
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20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.
Yes but that's part of the next development of this team. More ammunition through better players on the field and better availability from the bench.
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But...we always have a central midfielder pushing back when we have the ball. Always.
I didn't see much difference in how we played yesterday and at home to Luton. However against this better team we need to mix it up a bit more in the final 1/3. Difference in opposition play was that Luton stayed in the trenches and Forest made some raids and got lucky on couple of occasions. Luiz and Zaniolo didn't do their job amd Martinez was too casual.
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Bad day at the office so we move on.
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This defeat will serve as a lesson that we are not the finished article. A long way from it. We have raised expectations to almost unreasonable levels in the past 12 months. From relegation candidates to top four candidates with mostly the same players. It’s bonkers if you really take a step back and think about how far we’ve come. So one defeat sprinkled in amongst many good results only helps the players, the manager/coaches, the board that while things are going really well in context of the whole season there are improvements that need to be made. I don’t see anything to panic about. Losing provides lessons and information to help us get better, and pretty much every time we’ve lost, we’ve got better shortly after.
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Every team has shit days - when the entire team fail to spark you have to just accept it. I do not think anyone was above a 6 yesterday.
From the first goal you just felt it was not going to be our day - we had the great chance to go 4th or (hindsight i know after the Luton game) or even 3rd
So most Villa fans knew how the Gods would play it out.
It is not the loss it is how we recover from it - and Emery has good form on this
Bring on AZ and Fulham for a VP battering
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20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.
Yes but that's part of the next development of this team. More ammunition through better players on the field and better availability from the bench.
I think that's the key takeaway. We're going to come up against teams where we absolutely dominate the ball, but many of those teams will be happy to sit behind the ball and let us knock it around in the middle third when they've got something to defend, or even if a point is a "success" for them. I don't know what the answer is, but we did look a bit devoid of ideas in the last 30 minutes, and it's not like we were carving out chance after chance.
I fear that teams will work out that if they can get something early against us and sit back, we're quite formulaic in our attacking approach. You can guarantee our future opponents will be paying VERY close attention to the way Forest set up to defend their lead, because again, it wasn't like the alamo, and we didn't create loads of chances.
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Every team has shit days - when the entire team fail to spark you have to just accept it. I do not think anyone was above a 6 yesterday.
From the first goal you just felt it was not going to be our day - we had the great chance to go 4th or (hindsight i know after the Luton game) or even 3rd
So most Villa fans knew how the Gods would play it out.
It is not the loss it is how we recover from it - and Emery has good form on this
Bring on AZ and Fulham for a VP battering
That's the big bit for me. A result like this for the Villa of old and we'd be immediately devoid of confidence. I am really hoping that sort of thing is a distant memory under Emery - it's certainly proven to the case so far.
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Emery was pragmatic yesterday. Disappointed off course, but he certainly hasn’t pulled an Arteta and lost his fucking marbles. I want that in our manager. Supporters are allowed to range in emotions. And there are some on here that have gone to extremes to convey anger and others the opposite. But the manager needs to remain level headed and see the big picture. Emery’s recovery of adverse results percentage is something that should all make us sleep easier after a defeat.
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Martinez: Yes it was a goalie error. Otherwise, comfortable.
Cash - Poor game, blunders in defence for goals, possible injury as a result of inadequate defence. Was given the go-ahead to get forward and be high up the pitch with and without the ball with Kamara dropping in, but didn't appear to know how to take on defenders and was tentative. Put this down to a bad day, but Emery isn't convinced. And neither am I long term.
Konsa - Was one of the guys Forest wanted to have possession of the ball. Was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back. The less creative centre back
Torres- best defensive player with excellent passing range. A classy player. In the second half, Pau slid a delightful ball through for Digne. Oh my goodness, it was sublime. I adore him.
Digne - Just no . He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football.
McGinn- He created a fantastic opportunity for Watkins. He demonstrated his tenacity and grit in the second half as he outplayed a couple players and drove the team on. He was the main man in showing not wanting to lose.
Super John McGinn takes some credit for me.
Kamara - Forest allowed Kamara have a lot of the ball and didn't engage him much in the first half. As Cash advanced, he'd find himself in a right back cover duty. However, he was mixed in playing this role, and I believe he and Cash were perplexed by it all. Far too slow on the ball like Konsa in passing. After being booked having forced to play right side defence, for Cash he too was replaced.
He's the least creative midfielder. Classy player but Forest knew to let him like Konsa have the ball
Luiz -The most frustrating game I felt for him you could see his frustration. He wasn't protected by the ref, and Forest had a plan not to allow him have the ball so much in any dangerous situation, thus it was with Kamara. Due to the bustling nature of Forest midfielders and the ball and space being offered to other Villa players rather than Douglas, his influencing was not there. The ball was not delivered to him quickly enough when there were chances too but Forest shackled him well and stopped it generally.
A true sign how he's seen as a main danger and Douglas is a class act will have to get use to these tactics and look to exert his authority and Emery will find a plan to make sure he's involved more and not have a game like this.
Zaniolo- I'm still not convinced and hasn't done anything to change my view. I've mentioned that he's not suited to Emery football, and this was another evidence. I'd rather he didn't start games. Doesn't cover himself in glory for lack of effort in the goal conceded and doesn't seem to connect with Watkins in link up or make any moves to assist him. Tbf on one occasion, he made a lovely through ball to Digne and I don't deny he possesses ability, but he is not making himself available and moving without the ball. I simply don't see him being in the team on a permanent basis especially as attacking threat is beyond weak. Harsh but true.
Diaby- Difficult circumstances for Diaby, with limited spaces. Engineered a chance and forced a save, but defenders crowded him out. Class act who will deliver once again. Next time.
Watkins- Unfortunate with the headed chance and wasn't given quality service. Mainly due to any creating coming from abundance of poor crosses from Digne . Frustrating afternoon for him. Felt for him
Subs:
Bailey - Turned into some sort of target man for headed opportunities from Digne crossing.
Showed more attacking intent and ability than Zaniolo and tried to make a few things happen. Perhaps should have started
Tielemans- despite being a replacement had a great showing being a creator in chief and making several astute passes through the lines
Left me wondering should he have started or come on sooner ?
Exactly the sort of midfield play we needed against Forest.
Carlos and Dendocker also came on.
Solid if not spectacular. Impact negligible. Neutral to both on performance on the pitch.
Excellent report. Agree with most of it.
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Your blurb
No point recreating all your text.
I disagree on your assessment of 3 players:
1. Digne - did fine, in the main. His freedom on the left was not supported by good movement from the front three.
2. Konsa - did nothing wrong and became more creative through the 2nd half.
3. Kamara - it was clearly the plan for him to play as part of a back 3; nothing wrong with that.
... That fails to consider the context of what I've observed. You're only offering opinions.
You're right. This is a discussion forum and I've given you my opinion. Just as you gave yours.
... Instead what , I think you just expressed your assessment on these 3 players and how you observed the players, while ignoring the context of my analysis or debating what I said.
Sorry, Footy, but your view on things is only as valid as everyone else's. You do not have a monopoly on opinion, and your self-proclaimed insight is simply opinion. You talk about context: the context was the game we saw yesterday against the opposition we played.
Your blurb was keen to compare Konsa with Torres: I did not compare these 2 players, since they have different skills and different strengths.
Your blurb wanted to convince us that Kamara is not as skilful as Luiz: I think we all know that in pure terms, but Emery is asking them to do different things in this team and each has important roles to play. I've said elsewhere that I'd have preferred Tielemans to have started the game instead of Z if Kamara was to play in the back 3.
Your blurb seeks denigrate Digne compared with Moreno: Moreno was not in the frame to play yesterday, and Digne did okay despite the poor movement ahead of him. In the end, he did not make any assists, but that was mainly because we didn't actually score!
Sorry if my opinons do not accord with your opinions.
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Digne had an 88% pass completion, made the most key passes, had the most tackles in our team, won the most aerial duels and made the third most passes after Torres and Luiz.
Which resulted in the sum of fuck all.
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Digne had an 88% pass completion, made the most key passes, had the most tackles in our team, won the most aerial duels and made the third most passes after Torres and Luiz.
Which resulted in the sum of fuck all.
No shit Sherlock.
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Martinez: Yes it was a goalie error. Otherwise, comfortable.
Cash - Poor game, blunders in defence for goals, possible injury as a result of inadequate defence. Was given the go-ahead to get forward and be high up the pitch with and without the ball with Kamara dropping in, but didn't appear to know how to take on defenders and was tentative. Put this down to a bad day, but Emery isn't convinced. And neither am I long term.
Konsa - Was one of the guys Forest wanted to have possession of the ball. Was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back. The less creative centre back
Torres- best defensive player with excellent passing range. A classy player. In the second half, Pau slid a delightful ball through for Digne. Oh my goodness, it was sublime. I adore him.
Digne - Just no . He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football.
McGinn- He created a fantastic opportunity for Watkins. He demonstrated his tenacity and grit in the second half as he outplayed a couple players and drove the team on. He was the main man in showing not wanting to lose.
Super John McGinn takes some credit for me.
Kamara - Forest allowed Kamara have a lot of the ball and didn't engage him much in the first half. As Cash advanced, he'd find himself in a right back cover duty. However, he was mixed in playing this role, and I believe he and Cash were perplexed by it all. Far too slow on the ball like Konsa in passing. After being booked having forced to play right side defence, for Cash he too was replaced.
He's the least creative midfielder. Classy player but Forest knew to let him like Konsa have the ball
Luiz -The most frustrating game I felt for him you could see his frustration. He wasn't protected by the ref, and Forest had a plan not to allow him have the ball so much in any dangerous situation, thus it was with Kamara. Due to the bustling nature of Forest midfielders and the ball and space being offered to other Villa players rather than Douglas, his influencing was not there. The ball was not delivered to him quickly enough when there were chances too but Forest shackled him well and stopped it generally.
A true sign how he's seen as a main danger and Douglas is a class act will have to get use to these tactics and look to exert his authority and Emery will find a plan to make sure he's involved more and not have a game like this.
Zaniolo- I'm still not convinced and hasn't done anything to change my view. I've mentioned that he's not suited to Emery football, and this was another evidence. I'd rather he didn't start games. Doesn't cover himself in glory for lack of effort in the goal conceded and doesn't seem to connect with Watkins in link up or make any moves to assist him. Tbf on one occasion, he made a lovely through ball to Digne and I don't deny he possesses ability, but he is not making himself available and moving without the ball. I simply don't see him being in the team on a permanent basis especially as attacking threat is beyond weak. Harsh but true.
Diaby- Difficult circumstances for Diaby, with limited spaces. Engineered a chance and forced a save, but defenders crowded him out. Class act who will deliver once again. Next time.
Watkins- Unfortunate with the headed chance and wasn't given quality service. Mainly due to any creating coming from abundance of poor crosses from Digne . Frustrating afternoon for him. Felt for him
Subs:
Bailey - Turned into some sort of target man for headed opportunities from Digne crossing.
Showed more attacking intent and ability than Zaniolo and tried to make a few things happen. Perhaps should have started
Tielemans- despite being a replacement had a great showing being a creator in chief and making several astute passes through the lines
Left me wondering should he have started or come on sooner ?
Exactly the sort of midfield play we needed against Forest.
Carlos and Dendocker also came on.
Solid if not spectacular. Impact negligible. Neutral to both on performance on the pitch.
Excellent report. Agree with most of it.
Thought Bailey was brutal to be honest. Started ok but dropped his head far too quickly once he lost the ball a few times. Luiz I think should have taken more chances on the ball in the second half when Forest kept booting it back to us. Agreed on Tielemans he could and should have come on at half time. The last two subs were pointless, just more evidence that Konsa should never be at RB.
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The last two subs were pointless, just more evidence that Konsa should never be at RB.
He had one go at taking the ball forward down the right, which is more than can be said for Cash!
WTF can't Matty attempt to pass it forward? Starving Diaby of service. Need to get rid ASAP.
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The last two subs were pointless, just more evidence that Konsa should never be at RB.
He had one go at taking the ball forward down the right, which is more than can be said for Cash!
WTF can't Matty attempt to pass it forward? Starving Diaby of service. Need to get rid ASAP.
Have you deliberately come on here to spout bollocks?
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Difference between the two teams?
Forest defended resolutely - we didn't
Forest took their opportunities - we wasted ours
Our two full backs failed to put in decent crosses for our forwards
Not the end of the world .... I thought Forest did their homework and were worthy winners on the day
Hopefully Unai will learn more about his players after the performance.
Finally - maybe Villa fans should not get overconfident or cocky - myself included - I must confess I thought we just had to turn up for the three points without giving due respect to Forests` home form.
4th place would have been nice - but id rather be there at season end
Cheers all
VCTM
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
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Interesting comparing the stats of our loss there this November to Liverpools loss there last November. Liverpool had slightly more shots on target (seven to our three) but pretty much all the other stats were the same. Forrest stats though were half the chances against us then Scouse, but also a lot less fouls called. Now obviously they didn't need to do much as we handed them the two goals for them to stick with, but I do wonder if the fouls count was a different ref or they didn't need to foul as much?
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Difference between the two teams?
Forest defended resolutely - we didn't
Forest took their opportunities - we wasted ours
Our two full backs failed to put in decent crosses for our forwards
Not the end of the world .... I thought Forest did their homework and were worthy winners on the day
Hopefully Unai will learn more about his players after the performance.
Finally - maybe Villa fans should not get overconfident or cocky - myself included - I must confess I thought we just had to turn up for the three points without giving due respect to Forests` home form.
4th place would have been nice - but id rather be there at season end
Cheers all
VCTM
There's a fair bit of inconsistency at the top end of the table this season, such that even after such a ponderous performance by ourselves we are still within striking distance of a guaranteed CL spot (although am I correct in understanding that fifth place could yield a CL place anyway, contingent on one of the final Top 4 winning the thing this season?
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
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10 corners and i don't recall anything positive from any of it
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
I’d agree with this apart from Martinez and their first. He hit it very well and I was right behind it and there’s no way he was getting that.
They’d had a similar move not long before that and again midfield failed to go with the runner.
Our passing was ok and we still looked the better side by some way but as a coach you can’t be to blame for individual mistakes or by the delivery in the final third being so bad.
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Difference between the two teams?
Forest defended resolutely - we didn't
Forest took their opportunities - we wasted ours
Our two full backs failed to put in decent crosses for our forwards
Not the end of the world .... I thought Forest did their homework and were worthy winners on the day
Hopefully Unai will learn more about his players after the performance.
Finally - maybe Villa fans should not get overconfident or cocky - myself included - I must confess I thought we just had to turn up for the three points without giving due respect to Forests` home form.
4th place would have been nice - but id rather be there at season end
Cheers all
VCTM
Can’t argue with any of that, nicely summed up
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
Yes it was low block, smother the midfield and boot it up the pitch and chase.
It was enough though.
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Interesting comparing the stats of our loss there this November to Liverpools loss there last November. Liverpool had slightly more shots on target (seven to our three) but pretty much all the other stats were the same. Forrest stats though were half the chances against us then Scouse, but also a lot less fouls called. Now obviously they didn't need to do much as we handed them the two goals for them to stick with, but I do wonder if the fouls count was a different ref or they didn't need to foul as much?
The ref let a lot go and they benefited from it.
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
I don't think they were anything special, we just made it much harder for ourselves with the daft formation in the first half. Then when it was corrected, we went 2-0 down with the mistake from Emi, and that was that.
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The last two subs were pointless, just more evidence that Konsa should never be at RB.
He had one go at taking the ball forward down the right, which is more than can be said for Cash!
WTF can't Matty attempt to pass it forward? Starving Diaby of service. Need to get rid ASAP.
Have you deliberately come on here to spout bollocks?
The point was made a little bluntly, but I do think it is a point nonetheless. The one formation we use means that the full-backs are our attacking outlets and therefore find themselves I'm 1v1 situations with defenders quote often.
I like Matty Cash, but he often doesn't look comfortable in those positions and often turns and plays the ball backwards. I wouldn't goas far as saying that we "Need to get rid ASAP", but would say that we probably need another option who is somewhat similar to Moreno in ability going forward.
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
I’d agree with this apart from Martinez and their first. He hit it very well and I was right behind it and there’s no way he was getting that.
They’d had a similar move not long before that and again midfield failed to go with the runner.
Our passing was ok and we still looked the better side by some way but as a coach you can’t be to blame for individual mistakes or by the delivery in the final third being so bad.
Fair enough you had the ideal view so I'm probably being harsh for the first goal. I've got used to Emi usually being brilliant and I expected too much there I suppose. I'm just a bit rattled by all the ott reactions to Coopers tactics. They were copybook Big Sam or Tony Pulis.
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Every team has shit days - when the entire team fail to spark you have to just accept it. I do not think anyone was above a 6 yesterday.
From the first goal you just felt it was not going to be our day - we had the great chance to go 4th or (hindsight i know after the Luton game) or even 3rd
So most Villa fans knew how the Gods would play it out.
It is not the loss it is how we recover from it - and Emery has good form on this
Bring on AZ and Fulham for a VP battering
Im being g pedantic bit i thought Torres was excellent yesterday and well above a six.
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It’s pretty obvious where we need to strengthen. Just a question of finance and sentimentality.
Need the same depth at right back as left back.
Zaniolo and Bailey are adequate subs, but no more.
When we have buendia and JJ available, this will become reality.
Watkins is good but he needs competition. If Kane was playing for us today, we would have won.
Martinez- difficult one. I’m sure we can do better, but we could do a lot worse. Not a priority.
This comment on Martinez if serious is amongst the biggest load of bollocks i've ever seen posted on the internet.
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It’s pretty obvious where we need to strengthen. Just a question of finance and sentimentality.
Need the same depth at right back as left back.
Zaniolo and Bailey are adequate subs, but no more.
When we have buendia and JJ available, this will become reality.
Watkins is good but he needs competition. If Kane was playing for us today, we would have won.
Martinez- difficult one. I’m sure we can do better, but we could do a lot worse. Not a priority.
This comment on Martinez if serious is amongst the biggest load of bollocks i've ever seen posted on the internet.
*puts down pint and starts thinking of something really fucking stupid to say.
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Looking back at it all on MOTD2 now it is striking as to how similar their two goals were. Both involved Cash getting skinned in the build up, their scorer having an acre of space to himself between the defensive and midfield lines whilst we ball watched, and for both Emi could possibly have done better.
Cooper had us sussed from the start and I have no doubt that the first two aspects of the above were a deliberate exploitation of perceived weaknesses
I'm hearing a lot of comments saying how Cooper "had us sussed" and how Cooper "out thought Emery" Now I don't want to take anything away from Forest, they were disciplined and physical and it did the job but to suggest Cooper gave Emery some kind of masterclass is blowing a lot of smoke up his ass. They packed the midfield and the penalty box and refused to be drawn out which was quite a compliment to how dangerous they saw us especially as they were the home side. A couple of goals which Emi would usually save made the scoreline quite flattering to them but it don't make Cooper a bloody genius.
I’d agree with this apart from Martinez and their first. He hit it very well and I was right behind it and there’s no way he was getting that.
They’d had a similar move not long before that and again midfield failed to go with the runner.
Our passing was ok and we still looked the better side by some way but as a coach you can’t be to blame for individual mistakes or by the delivery in the final third being so bad.
Fair enough you had the ideal view so I'm probably being harsh for the first goal. I've got used to Emi usually being brilliant and I expected too much there I suppose. I'm just a bit rattled by all the ott reactions to Coopers tactics. They were copybook Big Sam or Tony Pulis.
It’s tough to lose against a team like that but we’ve got to break them down. We moved the ball too slowly first half and our final ball in the second was poor. Not the end of the world and it’s an experience that will inevitably help us learn what we need to do. There’ll be a few games where teams play like this against us.
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Their tactics were fine, they worked for them and they won. We just need to learn and work out how to get past that. Reality is when a team sets up like that conceding an early goal is a problem, conceding another just into the second half is fatal.
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we play far to many balls backwards for me
I know we have to be more patient etc etc but it infuriates me the amount of times we play a safe ball to the defenders rather than progressing further up field
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We will play against more teams using the same tactics as Forest, we will find a solution, forests league position might be a bit misleading ,they have already played a lot of good teams away
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I don’t think tactics Sunday were the problem, particularly considering our current personnel. The problem was that there were so many bad touches or fluffed lines at the crucial moment. The positions we got into were good enough to cause damage. What Sunday did tell us is that we don’t really have enough options to change things from the bench right now. Some of the walking wounded coming back will help but we need more.
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Both of our current set-ups (442 and 352) rely on full-backs as the main attacking outlet. Without Emi2 and Phil we have no natural 10 to change things around to a more traditional 4231 or 433. Teilemans is probably closest to that, but not at the level of either of those two on that position.
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The team have been brilliant this season considering the preseason disruption, so I'll forgive them Sunday's blip.
It was basically a case of too many of our players off the boil, and Forest did a number on us - Cash especially, who I thought was 'blunt' going forwards and a total liability in defence. The one shining light is that Tielemans is starting to show a little glimmer of the player we thought we were signing when he has made his recent UECL and sub cameos - I can see him cementing one of those midfield spots before too long.... The question is, for who?
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Yes, when Tielemans came on he made things move sharper and with more purpose. Based on form I'd start him instead of Zaniolo and Bailey and try to find a way for him to move inside as much as McGinn does.
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Didn't get to watch or listen to this one as was being reluctantly dragged around the Trafford Centre looking for suits for our two boys (have a wedding to go to in Cornwall this weekend).
Whilst it is a disappointing result both Arsenal and Spurs dropped points too. We will get the odd result like that, but hopefully (and likely) it's an outlier.
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It was just one of those days.
The way the ball slowed down for the first goal summed it up.
I remember being very excited about games at Oldham (FA Cup) and Blackburn (92/93) in the past and it just didn't go well for us and was hugely disappointing. But it didn't mean they weren't two of the most consistent Villa sides I have seen.