Forest v Villa post-match

[Risso]

Maybe I was watching a different game, but I didn't see a lot of change from the normal tactics until the second half. Indeed, looking at the average positions, Kamara was as so often deeper than Luiz but hardly to a degree out of the ordinary:

We changed things second half, as I've already said. And the average positions are weighted by the fact that we had almost all of the possession second half, as we ineffectively passed it around ourselves without bothering them a jot.

[Monty]

OK well, second half, he was trying to counter the overload that led to most of the attacks we faced, so tbh I thought it worked enough. It's just that we couldn't get through their 20-man defensive block.

[OCD]

20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.

[Somniloquism]

So to remind you then you're actually disagreeing that upon observations yesterday
Digne He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
So you're saying his 11 crosses were not wasteful and he made the most of the space afforded to him. Forgive me but he did not make any goal contributions or effectively threaten with his attacking play when he kept kicking the ball into the box?

So it was Digne's fault that Cash didn't head the ball properly? Does that mean it was McGinn's fault for playing the ball to Watkins when he didn't head the ball?

A player cannot create a goal if the receiving player doesn't do enough to score from it.

And was it Digne's attacking play or Luiz which led to the cross for Diaby's chance? Did we have enough people making the runs for Digne to find like that or did we not so he had to cross. Afterall, you  and others were crucifying Cash for passing back rather then crossing, and you seem to be crucifying Digne for crossing instead of passing back?

[olaftab]

20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.

Yes but that's part of the next development of this team. More ammunition through better players on the field and better availability from the bench.

[olaftab]

But...we always have a central midfielder pushing back when we have the ball. Always.

I didn't see much difference in how we played yesterday and at home to Luton. However against this better team we  need to mix it up a bit more in the final 1/3. Difference in opposition play was that Luton stayed in the trenches and Forest made some raids and got lucky on couple of occasions. Luiz and Zaniolo  didn't do their job amd Martinez was too casual.

[darren woolley]

Bad day at the office so we move on.

[Toronto Villa]

This defeat will serve as a lesson that we are not the finished article. A long way from it. We have raised expectations to almost unreasonable levels in the past 12 months. From relegation candidates to top four candidates with mostly the same players. It’s bonkers if you really take a step back and think about how far we’ve come. So one defeat sprinkled in amongst many good results only helps the players, the manager/coaches, the board that while things are going really well in context of the whole season there are improvements that need to be made. I don’t see anything to panic about. Losing provides lessons and information to help us get better, and pretty much every time we’ve lost, we’ve got better shortly after.

[Hookeysmith]

Every team has shit days - when the entire team fail to spark you have to just accept it. I do not think anyone was above a 6 yesterday.

From the first goal you just felt it was not going to be our day - we had the great chance to go 4th or (hindsight i know after the Luton game) or even 3rd

So most Villa fans knew how the Gods would play it out.

It is not the loss it is how we recover from it - and Emery has good form on this

Bring on AZ and Fulham for a VP battering

[Smithy]

20-man defensive block? We're going to have to get used to teams setting up like that, especially when they've got something to defend.

Yes but that's part of the next development of this team. More ammunition through better players on the field and better availability from the bench.

I think that's the key takeaway.  We're going to come up against teams where we absolutely dominate the ball, but many of those teams will be happy to sit behind the ball and let us knock it around in the middle third when they've got something to defend, or even if a point is a "success" for them.  I don't know what the answer is, but we did look a bit devoid of ideas in the last 30 minutes, and it's not like we were carving out chance after chance.

I fear that teams will work out that if they can get something early against us and sit back, we're quite formulaic in our attacking approach.  You can guarantee our future opponents will be paying VERY close attention to the way Forest set up to defend their lead, because again, it wasn't like the alamo, and we didn't create loads of chances.

[Smithy]

Every team has shit days - when the entire team fail to spark you have to just accept it. I do not think anyone was above a 6 yesterday.

From the first goal you just felt it was not going to be our day - we had the great chance to go 4th or (hindsight i know after the Luton game) or even 3rd

So most Villa fans knew how the Gods would play it out.

It is not the loss it is how we recover from it - and Emery has good form on this

Bring on AZ and Fulham for a VP battering

That's the big bit for me.  A result like this for the Villa of old and we'd be immediately devoid of confidence.  I am really hoping that sort of thing is a distant memory under Emery - it's certainly proven to the case so far.

[Toronto Villa]

Emery was pragmatic yesterday. Disappointed off course, but he certainly hasn’t pulled an Arteta and lost his fucking marbles. I want that in our manager. Supporters are allowed to range in emotions. And there are some on here that have gone to extremes to convey anger and others the opposite. But the manager needs to remain level headed and see the big picture. Emery’s recovery of adverse results percentage is something that should all make us sleep easier after a defeat.

[85kota]

Martinez: Yes it was a goalie error. Otherwise, comfortable.

Cash - Poor game, blunders in defence for goals, possible injury as a result of inadequate defence. Was given the go-ahead to get forward and be high up the pitch with and without the ball with Kamara dropping in, but didn't appear to know how to take on defenders and was tentative. Put this down to a bad day, but Emery isn't convinced. And neither am I long term.

Konsa - Was one of the guys Forest wanted to have possession of the ball. Was the main fault for not moving the ball quickly enough at the back. The less creative centre back

Torres- best defensive player with excellent passing range. A classy  player. In the second half, Pau slid a delightful ball through for Digne. Oh my goodness, it was sublime. I adore him.

Digne - Just no . He is wasteful with crosses, doesn't make the most of his chances with the ball, and lacked imagination and ability.
Only in team due to Moreno injury and his days were numbered previously. To be fair he has embraced opportunity but this was a reminder how he doesn't suit Emerys football.

McGinn- He created a fantastic opportunity for Watkins. He demonstrated his tenacity and grit in the second half as he outplayed a couple players and drove the team on. He was the main man in showing not wanting to lose.
Super John McGinn takes some credit for me.

Kamara - Forest allowed Kamara have a lot of the ball and didn't engage him much in the first half. As Cash advanced, he'd find himself in a right back cover duty. However, he was mixed in playing this role, and I believe he and Cash were perplexed by it all. Far too slow on the ball like Konsa in passing. After being booked having forced to play right side defence, for Cash he too was replaced.
He's the least creative midfielder. Classy player but Forest knew to let him like Konsa have the ball

Luiz -The most frustrating game I felt for him you could see his frustration. He wasn't protected by the ref, and Forest had a plan not to allow him have the ball so much in any dangerous situation, thus it was with Kamara. Due to the bustling nature of Forest midfielders and the ball and space being offered to other Villa players rather than Douglas, his influencing was not there. The ball was not delivered to him quickly enough when there were chances too but Forest shackled him well and stopped it generally.
A true sign how he's seen as a main danger and Douglas is a class act will have to get use to these tactics and look to exert his authority and Emery will find a plan to make sure he's involved more and not have a game like this.

 Zaniolo- I'm still not convinced and hasn't done anything to change my view. I've mentioned that he's not suited to Emery football, and this was another evidence. I'd rather he didn't start games. Doesn't cover himself in glory for lack of effort in the goal conceded and doesn't seem to connect with Watkins in link up or make any moves to assist him. Tbf on one occasion, he made a lovely through ball to Digne and I don't deny he possesses ability, but he is not making himself available and moving without the ball. I simply don't see him being in the team on a permanent basis especially as attacking threat is beyond weak. Harsh but true.

Diaby- Difficult circumstances for Diaby, with limited spaces. Engineered a chance and forced a save, but defenders crowded him out. Class act who will deliver once again. Next time.

Watkins- Unfortunate with the headed chance and wasn't given quality service. Mainly due to any creating coming from abundance of poor crosses from Digne . Frustrating afternoon for him. Felt for him

Subs:
Bailey - Turned into some sort of target man for headed opportunities from Digne crossing.
Showed more attacking intent and ability than Zaniolo and tried to make a few things happen. Perhaps should have started

Tielemans- despite being a replacement had a great showing being a creator in chief and making several astute passes through the lines
Left me wondering should he have started or come on sooner ?
Exactly the sort of midfield play we needed against Forest.

Carlos and Dendocker also came on.
Solid if not spectacular. Impact negligible. Neutral to both on performance on the pitch.

Excellent report. Agree with most of it.

[Mister E]

Your blurb

No point recreating all your text.
I disagree on your assessment of 3 players:
1. Digne - did fine, in the main. His freedom on the left was not supported by good movement from the front three.
2. Konsa - did nothing wrong and became more creative through the 2nd half.
3. Kamara - it was clearly the plan for him to play as part of a back 3; nothing wrong with that.

... That fails to consider the context of what I've observed. You're only offering opinions.

You're right. This is a discussion forum and I've given you my opinion. Just as you gave yours.

...  Instead what , I think you just expressed your assessment on these 3 players and  how you observed the players, while ignoring the context of my analysis or debating what I said.

Sorry, Footy, but your view on things is only as valid as everyone else's. You do not have a monopoly on opinion, and your self-proclaimed insight is simply opinion. You talk about context: the context was the game we saw yesterday against the opposition we played.
Your blurb was keen to compare Konsa with Torres: I did not compare these 2 players, since they have different skills and different strengths.
Your blurb wanted to convince us that Kamara is not as skilful as Luiz: I think we all know that in pure terms, but Emery is asking them to do different things in this team and each has important roles to play. I've said elsewhere that I'd have preferred Tielemans to have started the game instead of Z if Kamara was to play in the back 3.
Your blurb seeks denigrate Digne compared with Moreno: Moreno was not in the frame to play yesterday, and Digne did okay despite the poor movement ahead of him. In the end, he did not make any assists, but that was mainly because we didn't actually score!

Sorry if my opinons do not accord with your opinions.

[85kota]

Digne had an 88% pass completion, made the most key passes, had the most tackles in our team, won the most aerial duels and made the third most passes after Torres and Luiz.

Which resulted in the sum of fuck all.