Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on February 19, 2022, 05:03:07 PM
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Watford have done the double over us sums up this shithouse of a season.
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Have hated this season.
In my 40s and the glory days seem as far away as ever. What the fuck has happened to our club?
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Most of it on Gerrard. Another fcuking bottler of a manager not dropping players that shouldn’t be near the starting line up. Morgan pack your bags son you’re not getting in this side.
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I think it’s just typical of Villa. A few good weeks then a few bad weeks. It’ll never change.
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It's like Paul Lambert never left.
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It's probably never going to get better than mid-table wank.
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
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Disappointing.
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Didn't lay a glove on them for the whole game.
Wonder who the moaners will pile in on now?
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We look a team devoid of spirit and confidence - if we were any other team I'd want to to play Villa right now. The other teams seem to have found us out after a bright start under Gerrard. This season has the potential to get really depressing.
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I'm all for Gerrard's straight talking in his interviews; especially after a defeat - but it loses credibility if he does fuck all about it.
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Depressing.
Does every other club have these shite spells every single season but we just don't notice?
I am in a filthy mood.
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I'd put money on Burnley doing the double over us. We'll be shit at Elland Road. Southampton are in the form of their lives. Most of the remaining games are against the top eight. Can see us petering out in 15th place at best on 40 points at this rate. Piss poor.
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He had money and January transfer window.
He has had the players for months and we are no better than we were when he took us over.
Saying there were going to be changes and then backing down has given the players the permission to fail.
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Oh dear.
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Brighton have lost 3-0 but will steam roller us next week. Burnley must be rubbing their hands at the thought of playing us.
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You say Paul Lambert, the end of this game really reminded me of when we went out of the semifinal against Bradford. Where he had no tactical idea, other than to take off all the midfielders and just get all the attackers on. Just desperate and jeuvenile. Towards the end of this, I noticed we had McGinn in midfield surrounded by five Watford players. That is awful. Something stinks.
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Fuck off Villa, fuck off Gerrard and fuck off Robert fucking Jones. Clueless.
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Thing is with Gerard he’s never had to dig a team out of a hole, a bad season at Liverpool was finishing fifth and at rangers it’s 50/50 you win the league. I worried this would be why he’s not a good fit and I’m not seeing much to prove me wrong now the honeymoon is over.
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Useless wankers. Fuck off!
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Gerrard has made a complete cock of himself
Gave it billy big balls and said there would be changes after last week, as it was unacceptably poor.
Bottled it, and then we turned in another awful performance.
At the moment this is sadly playing out exactly how I feared it would.
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I knew long before this match that I do not trust our players. Now I'm not sure about the manager either; he will have to find something, and soon.
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
Ridiculous comment, I know were all disappointed but we've got to give them a decent chance at it.
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Fucking fuming mad.
Disgusting ineptitude and lack of professionalism/effort from the players.
Extremely disappointed in McGinn, Luiz, Young and Watkins. Serious self-evaluation times for them, most regulars in the side.
Gifting 6 points to watford this season is unacceptable. I don’t blame Gerrard, the players out there should’ve walked this. Bailey has to start if fit and Luiz just needs to go to Rome.
I haven’t been this angry since.. last weekend. Sort it the fuck out you fuckin mercenaries.
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Didn't lay a glove on them for the whole game.
Wonder who the moaners will pile in on now?
who would you like to single out for specific praise?
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Shocked. I know we're not playing well but still didn't expect that to happen.
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1 win in 7.
0 goals scored last two.
3 'winnable' games - 0 wins.
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Depressing.
Does every other club have these shite spells every single season but we just don't notice?
I am in a filthy mood.
As long as I've followed the villa, even in good years in the 90s when we would look like we could challenge for the title, you would get this feeling about us not fancying it when the going got tough. I don't know what it is. It is very depressing.
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I'm all for Gerrard's straight talking in his interviews; especially after a defeat - but it loses credibility if he does fuck all about it.
Yeah. That really does feel like a rookie mistake (the interview in the heat of the moment) and it has now hurt his credibility.
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Dross
We should have given a short term stint to Woy and sounded out the management team for next season
Hope I am wrong and that summer purchases move us on
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Unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable.
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Now the honeymoon period is well and truly over we can see nothing has really changed.
The ref was poor but not responsible for our garbage performance.
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Sigh.
Looked OK without doing much first half. Did fuck all second half. I’m a fan of Gerrard but he’s made himself look daft and weak with his team changes comments, then doing fuck all about it.
Also, how many more times does he need telling that Ings and Watkins just does not work. At all.
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Young at RB cost us the game, was awful at everything and lost his man for the goal. I can see why with Cash on a card and us wanting to attack it was an option but it cost us dear.
2 games lost against teams at bottom and pressure is on us now and SG. He needs to change things up.The CM isn't working to start with.It's also obvious that if you see deep we can play around you but with our full backs high we are susceptible to the break
very pissed off
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I've been with my missus sixteen years and we were talking about how dross Villa have been in that time. I reckon we've had seven decent seasons in that 16 year spell - two were in the championship and four of them were in the first few seasons of.MON.
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BTW we do have good players.
Martinez
Konsa
Cash
Digne
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Bailey
Ings
Watkins
All need to stay.
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Don’t think it was quite as bad as Newcastle, but Watford could’ve won that by 3 or 4. Pointless having all that possession if you haven’t got a fkn clue what to do with it in the final 3rd. Subs had me scratching my head a bit. I know Cash was in a yellow. But taking him off for Young? Plenty of effort from Villa, but no clue how to break Watford down. I think the booing at the end said it all really.
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Conditions didn’t help but neither did one or two players and the tactics what were they? 11 individuals out there today
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The players are better than what they are currently showing. My gut feel is that there is something divisive draining the togetherness.
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Not signing a DM in Jan has really fucked us. Then again, there doesn’t appear to be any plan in any case.
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I've been with my missus sixteen years and we were talking about how dross Villa have been in that time. I reckon we've had seven decent seasons in that 16 year spell - two were in the championship and four of them were in the first few seasons of.MON.
My Mrs tried to get me off villa when we got relegated! I'm well in my 40s and been reflecting a lot on how long we have been drifting aimlessly. Since 2001 in my opinion
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The players are better than what they are currently showing. My gut feel is that there is something divisive draining the togetherness.
Bring back the ketchup
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Can't remember the last time we forced the opposition GK into a save, must have be 1st half against Leeds I suppose.
Cant even must up the enthusiasm to get wound up by it, the boredom has beaten me.
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I couldn't even tell what we were trying to do.
Luiz and McGinn both utterly shocking again.
Game after game playing with no midfield presence. I couldn't believe, after his comments earlier in the week, he went back to the same old shit as last time bar Ings for Watkins.
1 win in the last 8 is pathetic.
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Aston Villa: it's the hope that kills you.
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I think all three subs made us worse which took some doing.
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Small Heath revel in being utter shit as part of their identity. As a Villa fan being shit it does my bloody head in.
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BTW we do have good players.
Martinez
Konsa
Cash
Digne
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Bailey
Ings
Watkins
All need to stay.
They are demonstrably not all that good. If they were, Smith would still be here and people would not be calling for the replacement manager's head.
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
Ridiculous comment, I know were all disappointed but we've got to give them a decent chance at it.
Really did you see the three of them just looking lost during the last few mins.
Take the first few wins out of the equation - i.e. the new manager bounce and we are in relegation form.
We can all see the midfield is a car crash but he keeps on crashing.
I have zero faith they know how to change this.
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Conditions didn’t help but neither did one or two players and the tactics what were they? 11 individuals out there today
What conditions????
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Hiding in the dugout? The fucking coward.
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I'm really looking forward to Steven Gerrard's post-match comments.
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Awful. Worst I have seen us play at VP in a long time. Watford did what they set out to do. We were clueless.
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Havent seen us so bad for years and it has been going in the wrong direction last games. Hope and think we will stay up and have another go next season, Its up to Gerrard to turn it around this season.
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Genuinely hope the media make Gerrard look an absolute bell end for his comments last Sunday and then doing next to nothing. Something seems very wrong behind the scenes at the moment, yet again. Piss poor and can't see it getting any better. Will be delighted to scrape 40 points but don't bet on it
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I wish Gerrard would stop sulking looking at his mate's laptop once in a while and at least pretend to get into the players a bit. Just like last week, once the 'plan' doesn't work, that seems to be that. Truly awful. Again.
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Depressing.
Does every other club have these shite spells every single season but we just don't notice?
I am in a filthy mood.
As long as I've followed the villa, even in good years in the 90s when we would look like we could challenge for the title, you would get this feeling about us not fancying it when the going got tough. I don't know what it is. It is very depressing.
I have no doubt that Gerrard has a winning mentality.
I have no doubt the coaches have a winning mentality.
I have no doubt the owners have a winning mentality.
I even have no doubt the players have a winning mentality - you don't make it this level if you don't.
But Aston Villa the entity has no winning mentality, and probably never will in my lifetime. The personnel come and go, but Aston Villa will always be a bottle it club.
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Didn't lay a glove on them for the whole game.
Wonder who the moaners will pile in on now?
JJ
who would you like to single out for specific praise?
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
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I couldn't even tell what we were trying to do.
Luiz and McGinn both utterly shocking again.
Game after game playing with no midfield presence. I couldn't believe, after his comments earlier in the week, he went back to the same old shit as last time bar Ings for Watkins.
1 win in the last 8 is pathetic.
Unfortunately, I don't rate either of them, We need an upgrade on both.
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10 corners, only 1 shot on target all game. Our inability to fashion a decent chance is a pisser
Hodgson had Watford well set up. Denied Cash/Digne space out wide and forced us to try and play through a congested midfield. With only Ings up front that left plenty of defenders/midfielders to close spaces and block channels.
Crap crossing (that's been a problem all season).
Generally disjointed in the final third.
Mind you, had it been Salah going down in front of the Anfield End in the opening minutes and not Ings in front of the Witton End, it would have been a nailed on penalty.
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More false dawns
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The players are better than what they are currently showing. My gut feel is that there is something divisive draining the togetherness.
Yeah, I agree. There's been something not right all season.
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Another very poor performance. So many players below the level needed. The width we need is just a dead end with no end product. Difficult to see what Gerrard does next week. Hard to see where the next win or goal is going coming from. We have so many creative players and no creativity.
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The players are better than what they are currently showing. My gut feel is that there is something divisive draining the togetherness.
Yeah, I agree. There's been something not right all season.
Probably the hangover of the rat walking out on his 'boyhood club'
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I don't often think this; but thank fuck I didn't go today
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13 defeats. I don't understand what's happened to the generally solid spine of last season.
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13 defeats. I don't understand what's happened to the generally solid spine of last season.
Need a defensive coach by the looks of it
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Another weekend ruined.
Fuck off Villa
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OK- hands up who didn't see this coming.....
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
100% this is what will happen. But what absolutely, mind numbling frustrating is that the moment Jack left we could all predict exactly what would happen.
At that point I knew Dean wouldn't make it til Xmas, I knew we would appoint SG, I knew he would be shit.
Our only outside hope is that SG is able to learn much quicker than Dean.
For me this sits with Purslow and Lange - we went into this season unbalanced after a poor set up, I thinnk Dean was encouraged to mix up his backroom staff, and that made him weaker. We outlined mf targets that would have made us much better, but made offensively low offers for them both now and in the summer, and we certainly didnt do any due diligence on apointing a new manager.
Really disapointing
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As soon as I saw Mings starting and only one change from Newcastle, I thought, this is only going one way.
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missed the match today because we’ve all got the covids in our household
so there’s always a silver lining
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
Ridiculous comment, I know were all disappointed but we've got to give them a decent chance at it.
Really did you see the three of them just looking lost during the last few mins.
Take the first few wins out of the equation - i.e. the new manager bounce and we are in relegation form.
We can all see the midfield is a car crash but he keeps on crashing.
I have zero faith they know how to change this.
Your right, I don’t think we’ll be relegated but this is definitely relegation form. The previous manager was sacked for form no worse than this. And to be honest Gerrard looks just as clueless as Smith did. It’s early days yet and Gerrard needs time and our patience and a full proper pre-season. There are several players who are not of the required class and as painful as it is, they’ve got to be replaced
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missed the match today because we’ve all got the covids in our household
so there’s always a silver lining
Dodged a bullet (get well soon)
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As soon as I saw Mings starting and only one change from Newcastle, I thought, this is only going one way.
Mings isn't perfect but he's been o.k today and at Newcastle. Don't rate Chambers much so hopefully Konsa is back in and we can grind our way to clean sheet against whoever we're playing next.
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This feels like an post-mortem. It’s taken a few games to finally get there, but today was dreadful. Simply dreadful. I want to find some positives but I simply cannot. The biggest one is that it was only 1-0. If it wasn’t for Emi Martinez, it would have been much much worse.
Big calls. Mr Gerrard called for big changes after Newcastle. He said there would be changes. When the team was released, I was excited but that simply drifted into a feeling of resignation and acceptance when the only change was Watkins for Ings. There was a golden opportunity to try to do something different today - why the hell did we not put Hause in defence and then shift Chambers into the DM position ahead of Dougie who hasn’t been looking like a player for a good few weeks now? Why stick with what gave us a massive arse showing in front of Newcastle last week? The changes were needed. We didn’t get them, the result is no surprise. It’s been coming for a while though - we have ridden our luck and we’re bang smack in relegation form now. Our only hope is that there are 3 teams worse than us in this league. Sadly, I have to say that Newcastle and Watford clearly aren’t 2 of them!
Our Strikers - Watkins looked initially lively when he came on. Ings looked brighter in moments. But it’s not working. It’s not working somehow. There’s no balance. They both look painfully short of any confidence at all.
Our midfield! This is the main crux of it for me. A 3 person midfield isn’t working at all. Not in the slightest. Dougie has been anonymous, McGinn has been pushed into positions he’s not familiar with. McGinn has been shocking and not good enough with his passing - but the same can be said for most of our team too. But we are losing this in midfield at all. It’s hard to pinpoint the blame on just one player, but Luiz has been totally anonymous and it’s almost like we’re playing the midfield with 1 player down to start with.
I can’t believe I’m writing this. It is dreadful. A massive, special thanks to Villa for ruining a perfectly reasonable weekend. Again.
I genuinely don’t know what’s going wrong behind the scenes at all - but something must be. For the results we’re “achieving”, our players are a lot better and a lot more capable. But it’s not happening.
This shit needs sorting out, and sorting out fast.
Tonight, I am very very frustrated with this team, the manager, the coaches. Anybody involved in the debacles that have been the last few weeks.
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The decision to replace Luiz with Watkins ( to go 2 up top which has failed all season) was simply bizarre. If he doesn't rate Sanson then don't have him on the bench,it's plainly ridiculous . As if that didn't make us go backwards, the decision to bring on Young for Cash made us do so at gallop. All three subs made us worse. Luiz may be playing poorly but he is the scapegoat having to play entirely out of position while out of form. I put today on Gerrad. He worries me
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All went a bit Sherwood towards the end before giving it the full Lambert. Hmm.
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That non penalty was a replica of Mings on Salah.
What has happened to the intense pressing that Gerrard said was a hallmark of how he wants his team to play. I cant believe how easily Watford were able to knock it around - we don’t work anything like hard enough and are far too slow in possession.
He needs to get back to basics and we need to be harder to play against. Only one of the 10s can play and until we get that DM, we need two holding players. Luiz was just non-existent.
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Something is not right between the management and players. My lad said that when they were in the tunnel the body language of the players seemed like they were not collectively a team.
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You can't say changes have to be made then pick the same players bar one. Watford were better organised all game, we were huff and puff with nothing behind it. Bringing young on was a disasterous decision too old and past it, thats down to Gerrard, we had much better options. If you keep making the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result it's a sign of insanity, well that's gerrard and the midfield. I had great hopes for him but he is starting to appear clueless.
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Has he done a post match interview yet?
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Has he done a post match interview yet?
No, they all agreed to just rerun the one from the newcastle game
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You can't say changes have to be made then pick the same players bar one. Watford were better organised all game, we were huff and puff with nothing behind it. Bringing young on was a disasterous decision too old and past it, thats down to Gerrard, we had much better options. If you keep making the same mistake over and over and expecting a different result it's a sign of insanity, well that's gerrard and the midfield. I had great hopes for him but he is starting to appear clueless.
The problem is the formation/tatics - we dont have the players for it. End of. I dont know if it is even possible for that formation to work in the PL unless you are one of the top teams.
The problem is everyone said about how good it was to have someone straight talking and honest - but were a few months in and hes already showing us that he is spouting the same shit.
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I wouldn't fault the effort which was okay until the goal but there isn't enough quality. The substitutions baffled me. Buendia was our one quality player. Gerrard has never managed a struggling team. Can he cope with this?
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Once they scored, most of our players hid. Says it all about the character of them. Watford were absolutely rank but you could sense that their very rare attacks had a lot more purpose than ours. 0-1 flattered us for a finish.
Dreadful and all as our X1 were, our three subs were embarrassing. Watkins of course negated any influence Ings was having. The Scouse Sherwood as many have said finished up like Lambert v Bradford. Should be the end of his reign tonight and that of Lange/Purslow. A complete shambles.
Martinez 8 - couple of brilliant saves
Rash 3 - rotten, utter whingebag aswell
Chambers 3 - not even championship standard
Mings 6 - solid enough
Digne 4 - very poor, suspect when going got tough
Luiz 4 - wanted to be elsewhere, though our midfield disappeared once he went off
McGinn 3 - horror show, sad to watch in truth
Ramsey 6 - tried hard but as suspect as any of them without the ball
Coutinho 6 - average enough but did look the most likely to make things happen
Buendia 5 - guilty of overplaying throughout
Ings 5 - decent first half but disappeared without trace after Watkins came on
Watkins 3 - rubbish, confidence on floor
Young 3 - at fault for their goal, nowhere near up to the standard
Bailey 3 - rotten cameo again
Gerrard 0 - disasterclass
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Yeah, let's react by sacking our second manager, CEO and Head of Recruitment mid-season.
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Once they scored, most of our players hid. Says it all about the character of them. Watford were absolutely rank but you could sense that their very rare attacks had a lot more purpose than ours. 0-1 flattered us for a finish.
Dreadful and all as our X1 were, our three subs were embarrassing. Watkins of course negated any influence Ings was having. The Scouse Sherwood as many have said finished up like Lambert v Bradford. Should be the end of his reign tonight and that of Lange/Purslow. A complete shambles.
Martinez 8 - couple of brilliant saves
Rash 3 - rotten, utter whingebag aswell
Chambers 3 - not even championship standard
Mings 6 - solid enough
Digne 4 - very poor, suspect when going got tough
Luiz 4 - wanted to be elsewhere, though our midfield disappeared once he went off
McGinn 3 - horror show, sad to watch in truth
Ramsey 6 - tried hard but as suspect as any of them without the ball
Coutinho 6 - average enough but did look the most likely to make things happen
Buendia 5 - guilty of overplaying throughout
Ings 5 - decent first half but disappeared without trace after Watkins came on
Watkins 3 - rubbish, confidence on floor
Young 3 - at fault for their goal, nowhere near up to the standard
Bailey 3 - rotten cameo again
Gerrard 0 - disasterclass
Pretty fair summing up. Subs disastrous. Now looking down instead of up the table. Season over effectively - only avoiding getting sucked in to a scrap is the target. Forgetable again. I really begin to wonder what the fuck they do in training.
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Smile for the cameras.
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
What a drama queen.
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If anyone starts banging on about “plan f**king B” I will f**king explode.
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If anyone starts banging on about “plan f**king B” I will f**king explode.
we could do with one
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Can't be arsed to comment, except I take time away and chill out
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If anyone starts banging on about “plan f**king B” I will f**king explode.
we could do with one
You need plan A before you move onto plan B.
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The players could do with a couple of weeks off. A mini pre-season.
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I did something today that I always swore not to and that was walk out before the final whistle. I expected changes after last weeks awful performance and SG comments about changes, Sanson must have pumped his Mrs as he can't get a look in even when it's so bloody poor.
The second half we looked clueless, the substitutions made us far worse losing our shape and relying on Bailey most of the time. Woy gave SG a lesson in tactics and I hope he starts to learn bloody quickly.
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What a horror show that was! Let's not mess about, Watford were awful and we managed one tepid Buendia shot on target in the entire match.
The tempo was slow and pedestrian from the outset. No urgency, no quickness of thought, no movement....
I heard that Cash and Digne had been practicing crossing all week but if our bombing on wing-backs refuse to bomb on, won't take on their last defender and won't put a cross in then what's the bloody point of the practice?
Time and time again during the second half Villa had a two man attacking overload in space on the left but Digne refused to bomb on preferring instead to hang back so when he got the ball he simply played it back inside, safety first, no risk football.
It was doing my head in.
Watford were lousy so that cannot be acceptable. It wasn't anywhere near acceptable.
Let's see what Gerrard is made of.
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On the way to the match I said to my brother that I thought we would struggle again today.
Young coming on as a sub was a total mystery. The shape of the team just looks all wrong. I suggest SG looks at videos of the first few games he was in charge and revert to whatever he was asking the players to do then and not what they are doing now. Until we get to at least 36 points, I won’t feel comfortable about us not being dragged into a relegation battle. At this moment in time, sadly, I can’t see where our next point is coming from.
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We're piss easy to play against, stop our full backs from having space so that we congest the middle and we have no answer.
That will work in Scotland were your squad is playing a different sport to 99% of the other teams, its been found out very quickly here.
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
That’s entirely possible. I mentioned it after the Leeds game but how come other teams with supposedly inferior players can implement the managers ideas and tactics and it appears we haven’t got a fucking clue. Beale was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, is it the coaching side? Are the players unwilling to change, don’t understand what they’re supposed to be doing or just not good enough?
I don’t know the answers but for a start the players need to be tactically flexible and so does the manager. It seams to me that his preferred tactic at the moment is just destroying the midfield, Luis sits deep which he’s unsuited to and McGinn becomes some kind of deep lying midfield come makeshift full back to cover the actual full back further up the pitch, again negating his natural game and limiting his major strength of breaking into the box.
You need to look at the players and their strengths and pick a formation and tactics to get the best out of their skill set. At the moment it’s just too muddled and previously good players are now playing like they’d struggle to hold down a place in a bottom half championship team.
For me this is on Gerrard and the coaches.
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Coutinho is a wonderful player but he's not someone the team needed. Gerrard whatsapp'd him on the off-chance he was interested. An opportunist move and as he's probably the most skilful player we've ever signed, understandable that we were giddy and went for him but he was never going to solve the structural issues at the heart of our team.
As Nick Harper pointed out, playing both Coutinho and Buendia means you HAVE TO have a central midfielder who can pivot, block, tackle, lead and direct those ahead of him. Luiz, McGinn and Ramsey are not that player. As much as I want to see Sanson given a go, he nor Chuck fit that profile either. We're relying on a 2020's Nigel Reo-Coker, Marv Naka to return as he is the only player in the entire squad, limited though he is, that comes close to what we need.
We also have a pair of erratic full-backs who are not cut-out for the type of system we play (Benitez was right - Digne is not up to it defensively), Cash is bog-average.
As a unit we look so disjointed a lot of the time. Our recruitment since Grealish left looks hit and miss at best. I used to hate the fact we were draw specialists. Boring, boring Villa - under Gregory, O'Neill, McLeish's season when we just survived - all eras punctuated by tedious games where we couldn't break the opposition down to win. This season we're losing those type of games. The number of defeats we've suffered is relegation-able. If we're not going to win games, we have to be harder to beat and learn to eek out a point.
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Midfield had no clue how to play together, defending was awful for their goal and the chance they had later on, totally exposed.
I thought today was a chance to make a statement after Newcastle...we did, but the wrong one. He need to turn it around quick.
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I thought last week was shambolic enough, but the second half today surpassed that. To lose to a team which hadn't scored in over 6 hours and hadn't won in ages was bad enough, but the performance just got worse and worse all game.
It wasn't a Roy masterclass, it was incompetence from us. Watford looked shaky a few times at the back but probably realised we weren't going to hurt them with our woeful crosses and corners.
The substitutions were odd. I can only assume he thought Young would have an impact like he did in Gerrard's first match against Brighton.
We are definitely looking over our shoulders now.
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We're not very good when teams sit deep and invite us on to them, that much is clear. Which is a surprise given the attacking talent we have at our disposal. We need to correct that, and quickly.
Plenty of possession in around their box, but how many clear-cut chances did we create? They float one cross in and they score from the six-yard line. Then everything they did was on the break.
A really disappointing day at the office.
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Anyone know in a narrow midfield we play mcginn on the right and Ramsey on the left, both playing on their weaker side forcing them to come inside into a congested midfield. Piss poor today.
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On the way to the match I said to my brother that I thought we would struggle again today.
Young coming on as a sub was a total mystery. The shape of the team just looks all wrong. I suggest SG looks at videos of the first few games he was in charge and revert to whatever he was asking the players to do then and not what they are doing now. Until we get to at least 36 points, I won’t feel comfortable about us not being dragged into a relegation battle. At this moment in time, sadly, I can’t see where our next point is coming from.
Look at the last four games.
Everton
Leeds
Newcastle
Watford
We had to be picking up a minimum 10 points out of them. Yet we've got 4, which 3 of those coming before we had a "mini preseason". And we were very fortunate to beat Everton.
If this team gets sucked into trouble, I struggle to see these players having the stomach for it on the evidence I've seen in the last two games.
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Anyone know in a narrow midfield we play mcginn on the right and Ramsey on the left, both playing on their weaker side forcing them to come inside into a congested midfield. Piss poor today.
Its really frustrating that we do this, our whole game plan seems like its set up to crowd the middle.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/aston-villa/12546338/aston-villa-0-1-watford-premier-league-highlights
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Anyone know in a narrow midfield we play mcginn on the right and Ramsey on the left, both playing on their weaker side forcing them to come inside into a congested midfield. Piss poor today.
Its really frustrating that we do this, our whole game plan seems like its set up to crowd the middle.
I think it is to get it forward to Cash so he can pass it to an opposition defender.
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That defeat is entirely on Gerrard. The threatened changes amounted to Ings for Watkins, Luiz not being allowed on set pieces and a ‘put more of an aggressive effort in lads’ attitude. Wow. It was the same old story of Mcginn dropping into that the inside right area of midfield and giving the ball away. Luiz being totally uninvolved in the game. The opposition allowing the ball to go to our full backs and then counter attacking down our flanks in those massive gaps. It’s entirely predictable, even for sides with much more limited resources to outwit. Gerrard has shown that he has learnt nothing from the past few games or done nothing to change the same problems we’ve had. We are going nowhere. Expect no changes to this approach for next week.
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That defeat is entirely on Gerrard. The threatened changes amounted to Ings for Watkins, Luiz not being allowed on set pieces and a ‘put more of an aggressive effort in lads’ attitude. Wow. It was the same old story of Mcginn dropping into that the inside right area of midfield and giving the ball away. Luiz being totally uninvolved in the game. The opposition allowing the ball to go to our full backs and then counter attacking down our flanks in those massive gaps. It’s entirely predictable, even for sides with much more limited resources to outwit. Gerrard has shown that he has learnt nothing from the past few games or done nothing to change the same problems we’ve had. We are going nowhere. Expect no changes to this approach for next week.
Next week will be horrific. Brighton will just pass us to death
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So, two hours later still totally pissed off
How the hell do we let Watford do the double over us after all the money we have spent
We can blame the manager but my God where has the pride gone when pulling on a Villa shirt my answer is this if you can't handle it or you don't care please fuck off and play for someone else ! Because I have supported us for over 50 years and our
squad has never been so full of international players and still so much bildge is served up
Another weekend ruined
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At one point I spent a good four or five seconds scanning the pitch to find Luiz. He wasn't where I thought he should be, given the passage of play that had just then occurred.
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For all the vitriol on here, I don’t think we were anywhere near as bad as last week. but the second Watkins came on, Ings disappeared…. which was a shame as I thought Ings played well first half and looked like something resembling a goal scorer.
My biggest issue with Gerrard is his persistence with this tried and trusted formation he had at Rangers. We clearly don’t have the personnel to play that way, it’s too gung-ho without defensive cover and leaving our centre backs totally exposed.
He needs to stop the rot fast…. Konsa back next week, so stick Chambers at DM in for Doug Luis, Sanson in for McGinn, and stick with Ings up front, as there was a spark and intelligence between him and Coutinho/Buendia.
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For all the vitriol on here, I don’t think we were anywhere near as bad as last week. but the second Watkins came on, Ings disappeared…. which was a shame as I thought Ings played well first half and looked like something resembling a goal scorer.
My biggest issue with Gerrard is his persistence with this tried and trusted formation he had at Rangers. We clearly don’t have the personnel to play that way, it’s too gung-ho without defensive cover and leaving our centre backs totally exposed.
He needs to stop the rot fast…. Konsa back next week, so stick Chambers at DM in for Doug Luis, Sanson in for McGinn, and stick with Ings up front, as there was a spark and intelligence between him and Coutinho/Buendia.
I see it this way too.
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13 defeats. I don't understand what's happened to the generally solid spine of last season.
We lost too many last year and the year before. Blue in the teeth saying we need to be harder to beat. We lose too many games and come away, too often, with a big fat zero points.
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For all the vitriol on here, I don’t think we were anywhere near as bad as last week. but the second Watkins came on, Ings disappeared…. which was a shame as I thought Ings played well first half and looked like something resembling a goal scorer.
My biggest issue with Gerrard is his persistence with this tried and trusted formation he had at Rangers. We clearly don’t have the personnel to play that way, it’s too gung-ho without defensive cover and leaving our centre backs totally exposed.
He needs to stop the rot fast…. Konsa back next week, so stick Chambers at DM in for Doug Luis, Sanson in for McGinn, and stick with Ings up front, as there was a spark and intelligence between him and Coutinho/Buendia.
I see it this way too.
Yeah agreed.
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No please do not stick Chambers in the defensive midfield role. His lack of movement will expose us totally.
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Anyone know in a narrow midfield we play mcginn on the right and Ramsey on the left, both playing on their weaker side forcing them to come inside into a congested midfield. Piss poor today.
Its really frustrating that we do this, our whole game plan seems like its set up to crowd the middle.
I think it is to get it forward to Cash so he can pass it to an opposition defender.
I’m not sure I’d describe McGinn’s current position as midfield. He’s effectively an Inside full-back in this strange system we’re playing.
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For all the vitriol on here, I don’t think we were anywhere near as bad as last week. but the second Watkins came on, Ings disappeared…. which was a shame as I thought Ings played well first half and looked like something resembling a goal scorer.
My biggest issue with Gerrard is his persistence with this tried and trusted formation he had at Rangers. We clearly don’t have the personnel to play that way, it’s too gung-ho without defensive cover and leaving our centre backs totally exposed.
He needs to stop the rot fast…. Konsa back next week, so stick Chambers at DM in for Doug Luis, Sanson in for McGinn, and stick with Ings up front, as there was a spark and intelligence between him and Coutinho/Buendia.
If there isn't vitriol after this defeat then there never will be.
This wasn't a top four side we lost to. This was a Watford side who were as poor as we could have hoped for.
The performance has to be put in this context. We lost at home to a desperately poor side who hadn't won in a dozen games or scored in four.
We have Southampton in our next home game and they will be a real handful.
Today was a major opportunity to get a much needed win and we blew it.
No mitigation or excuses for me. None at all.
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Reminded me a bit of one of those abject home defeats under Gregory; miserable November afternoon, home to Southampton, late header from Dean Richards (RIP), 0-1.
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Performance was reasonably creative all game but we got a bit scraggy as it went on and the subs didn’t help that. It was infinitely better than last week but we got caught with the sucker punch which was the only way Watford looked like scoring. Onwards….
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Reminded me a bit of one of those abject home defeats under Gregory; miserable November afternoon, home to Southampton, late header from Dean Richards (RIP), 0-1.
Don't remind me. That was a real shocker. Got told by a steward at one point to calm down.....
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Performance was reasonably creative all game but we got a bit scraggy as it went on and the subs didn’t help that. It was infinitely better than last week but we got caught with the sucker punch which was the only way Watford looked like scoring. Onwards….
Well, apart from the three pretty good saves they forced out of Martinez, obvs.
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I thought the Young sub did make sense. Cash's crossing jas gone to pot, while he did get up more 2nd half, he was constantly 10 yards too deep in the 1st. That really unnecessary heavy challenge where he was rightly booked proved the final straw.
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First half, ok-ish. We looked like we wanted it but we needed that first goal and the longer it went, you could guess what was going to happen.
All his talk last week of their being changes but only picking one player out comes across as bad management to me.
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
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First half, ok-ish. We looked like we wanted it but we needed that first goal and the longer it went, you could guess what was going to happen.
All his talk last week of their being changes but only picking one player out comes across as bad management to me.
Can't disagree with that. The overall performance was nowhere near as bad as the Newcastle game, but still too many players underperforming.
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We needed that penalty in the 2nd minute. Bus parkers have always been our nemesis.
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SG and the whole management team need to be sacked tonight.
They haven’t a fuckin clue.
Absolute chancers.
Congrats, you're making them happy on SHA.
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Anybody know the attendance today, please?. They didn’t announce it today, as they usually do.
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
There was a fair bit of shouty stuff from mid upper Trinity pretty much from kick-off too. Some old geezer sat behind me in particular, who was just embarrassing himself throughout the match.
As a villa player, it must be easier playing away from home these days. Atmosphere is shocking to how it used to be.
If I was Coutinho in the summer with a contract on the table I’d be saying ‘fuck that’! We’re starting to sound like self-entitled Spurs fans.
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Maybe we should just play against top half sides
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
There was a fair bit of shouty stuff from mid upper Trinity pretty much from kick-off too. Some old geezer sat behind me in particular, who was just embarrassing himself throughout the match.
As a villa player, it must be easier playing away from home these days. Atmosphere is shocking to how it used to be.
If I was Coutinho in the summer with a contract on the table I’d be saying ‘fuck that’! We’re starting to sound like self-entitled Spurs fans.
Yep. You have someone on here saying Coutinho has turned from a prince into a frog just because he's not had two great games. Some of our fans are just ridiculously childish.
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There was a fair bit of shouty stuff from mid upper Trinity pretty much from kick-off too. Some old geezer sat behind me in particular, who was just embarrassing himself throughout the match.
[/quote]
Were you in the Lower Holte there's a geezer behind me that sounds like it could be him!
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
There was a fair bit of shouty stuff from mid upper Trinity pretty much from kick-off too. Some old geezer sat behind me in particular, who was just embarrassing himself throughout the match.
As a villa player, it must be easier playing away from home these days. Atmosphere is shocking to how it used to be.
If I was Coutinho in the summer with a contract on the table I’d be saying ‘fuck that’! We’re starting to sound like self-entitled Spurs fans.
Yep. You have someone on here saying Coutinho has turned from a prince into a frog just because he's not had two great games. Some of our fans are just ridiculously childish.
The bloke praising Targett after he called him a coward after several performances previously is an eyebrow raiser.
Sometimes things can be annoying and poor without being cataclysmic. Being midtable and doing irritating midtable things, like losing to a poor side 2 weeks on the bounce, doesn't mean that's where you have to stay or will stay. Sometimes it gets worse, given the way the club is, it will probably get a bit better, as it has done since 2018.
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
Sadly, I fear this is the case.
We seem to be rendering a lot of talent redundant with this system (McGinn, Luiz, Traore, Bailey), a system which is not that effective. So were trying to bang square pegs into round holes, when should making the holes square until we can at least buy the requisite round pegs.
It's a bit Houllier.
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That’s 13 defeats now which is unacceptable. Apart from a few weeks we’ve been looking down the table all season.
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A stinker, no mistake about it. Hardly created anything against a poor Watford apart from the Ings sitter, but I have a feeling that would have been offside from the replay I saw on the screen at the ground.
Just feel that the starting team hadn’t got any real pace and that when we did look to break, we hadn’t got anyone who could carry the ball at pace, so it was all a bit static and and slow.
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That’s 13 defeats now which is unacceptable. Apart from a few weeks we’ve been looking down the table all season.
We lost 15 last season. Had hoped we'd have fewer than that this time. Not gonna happen is it?
Hoping we finish mid table and don't lose any key players. Coutinho on a permanent would be a dream, there is agreement in place isn't there? £35m? Please tell me there is.
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
Sadly, I fear this is the case.
We seem to be rendering a lot of talent redundant with this system (McGinn, Luiz, Traore, Bailey), a system which is not that effective. So were trying to bang square pegs into round holes, when should making the holes square until we can at least buy the requisite round pegs.
It's a bit Houllier.
You might well be right, but I think it’s far too early to judge.
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Very disappointed that's two weeks running we have been really bad.
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Finally home. Well over a thousand miles in the past week. Two terrible performances, two defeats against crap opposition and no goals scored. Another brave new dawn...
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Emperor's new clothes.
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I think Gerrard is messing about with the ‘identity’ he keeps banging on about that no one has a fucking clue who they are and what they are supposed to be doing.
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The passing is dreadful - far too many times the ball doesn't go in front of the advancing player thus slowing down the build up play. McGinn more so than anyone.
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We had a mini pre season apparently, after the Everton game.
Hindsight being 20/20 vision and all that. But some of our lot maybe needed a proper break.
McGinn, Mings, Martinez and Luiz (who have all taken pelters in recent weeks) played through the summer last year - on the back of a season that had a short turnaround time post Covid.
We can maybe carry one or two players looking leggy (and even that's pushing it). But when it's 2-3, Coutinho adapting to a new team and Bailey returning from injury etc it's too much to work around.
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The opposition continue to play very compressed lines when defending, making it hard for us to play through. When we defend we are very open and spread thus allowing teams to play through us.
The number of times today in particular that Digne and Cash are in acres of space on the touchline begging to be given the ball only for a central player to turn and pass it 5 yards and same again and then back to Mings is so frustrating.
Why are we so easy to frustrate when we have the likes of Buendia and Coutinho on the pitch? There was a point when Coutinho was our deepest outfield player. Bizarre.
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Oh and I'm starting to think I'm a jinx.
Brentford, Wolves, Man Utd, and Watford with my lad and Man City and Leeds on my tod. Yet to see a win.
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The problem with the fullbacks pushing forward when we play out from the back is that the midfielders drop in behind them. So you’ve got Digne up the field and Ramsey dropping in. It just doesn’t make sense. And when the centre halves pivot across Luiz drops back so that he’s often the deepest player to provide cover. I don’t think this is the players but more the tactics. Call me old fashioned but why not just have the players play to their positions.
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Can anyone translate this from SG post game interview?
“It’s not difficult for me to motivate the players, but motivating yourself comes from within. That’s on you as a footballer."
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Can anyone translate this from SG post game interview?
“It’s not difficult for me to motivate the players, but motivating yourself comes from within. That’s on you as a footballer."
It's from Kung Fu .The 70s tv series starring David Carradine when the blind guru master gives him some jewels of insight at the beginning of the episode.
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Can anyone translate this from SG post game interview?
“It’s not difficult for me to motivate the players, but motivating yourself comes from within. That’s on you as a footballer."
It's from Kung Fu .The 70s tv series starring David Carradine when the blind guru master gives him some jewels of insight at the beginning of the episode.
I wondered if it might be from the Sphinx in Mystery Men:
“When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts."
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Just watched us again on MOTD and although we had 60% possession, the 4 good chances all fell to Watford. If not for Martinez that could have been 0-3 easily.
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
There was a fair bit of shouty stuff from mid upper Trinity pretty much from kick-off too. Some old geezer sat behind me in particular, who was just embarrassing himself throughout the match.
As a villa player, it must be easier playing away from home these days. Atmosphere is shocking to how it used to be.
If I was Coutinho in the summer with a contract on the table I’d be saying ‘fuck that’! We’re starting to sound like self-entitled Spurs fans.
Are you pair serious ? Have you actually watched the shite that the paying public are supposed to believe is 'entertainment '........dreadful fayre masquerading as football, and it's the fans fault somehow ?
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Gerrard is turning us into a team of midgets. It's pointless winning corner after corner when all we've got in the box is dwarfs. He should be banned from signing anyone under 6' in the Summer.
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Here’s how this plays out.
We’ll finish 14th this season.
A few players will leave.
Gerrard gets a pre season and a window and spends a lot.
Gerrard is sacked by Christmas latest and we go again.
Pitiful state of affairs.
Sadly, I fear this is the case.
We seem to be rendering a lot of talent redundant with this system (McGinn, Luiz, Traore, Bailey), a system which is not that effective. So were trying to bang square pegs into round holes, when should making the holes square until we can at least buy the requisite round pegs.
It's a bit Houllier.
I agree entirely.
In fact, I just posted on the SG thread that he'll go just after xmas and we'll make zero progress before seeing this.
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More Sherwood for me. A false dawn.
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My lad doesn't want to go to the Southampton game now. Can't say I blame him after what he's seen. Anyway, I'll win him round I'm sure, may take a bribe though.
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Our players are better than our recent performances.
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The problem with the fullbacks pushing forward when we play out from the back is that the midfielders drop in behind them. So you’ve got Digne up the field and Ramsey dropping in. It just doesn’t make sense. And when the centre halves pivot across Luiz drops back so that he’s often the deepest player to provide cover. I don’t think this is the players but more the tactics. Call me old fashioned but why not just have the players play to their positions.
Agree and it also means our midfield are dropping deep, meaning Buendia and Coutinho are also having to drop deeper, leaving us with very few advanced options. Luiz, McGinn and Ramsey all have their attributes, but none really have the wide range of passing to hurt teams from deep areas either.
Coutinho and Buendia also play very narrow, meaning that it is all a bit congested in the central areas and when the ball does go out to Cash and Digne, they are pretty isolated.
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Not good enough.
Wasn't surprised we lost, and woke up to a torrent of negativity from Villa mates.
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Got up middle of the night to watch the game, first thing that struck me was after the first ten minutes it was if we were playing in front of a ten thousand crowd it was so quiet, if Gerrard had stuck to his word and bought two or three players in the crowd might have been up for it but to see that failed midfield being trotted out yet again was pathetic.
At the very least if he had made the changes and it didn't work we could see that he was trying something different.
I will give Digne a few more weeks but as of now I don't see him being any better that Targett. At the end bringing Watson on to play with Ings was head scratching, haven't we seen that fail week after week?
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Got up middle of the night to watch the game, first thing that struck me was after the first ten minutes it was if we were playing in front of a ten thousand crowd it was so quiet, if Gerrard had stuck to his word and bought two or three players in the crowd might have been up for it but to see that failed midfield being trotted out yet again was pathetic.
At the very least if he had made the changes and it didn't work we could see that he was trying something different.
I will give Digne a few more weeks but as of now I don't see him being any better that Targett. At the end bringing Watson on to play with Ings was head scratching, haven't we seen that fail week after week?
Elementary
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We are playing a system that most teams find easy to counter, we persist with it because we believe it the best system for our players or management team, It’s clearly not working at the moment, I would love to know how our CEO is convincing our Owners that we’re on track for success when the results are so poor. These astute business men must now be alarmed at what’s taking place. We have a set piece coach who surely can see we don’t have many tall players in the side, when I saw us lofting the ball from corners into a penalty box crowded with big Watford defenders, I wonder if the players are listening. I would be very surprised if we spend big in the summer, would you trust this management team to spend wisely. Following Newcastle we all hoped we would get a reaction yesterday’s performance was alarming.
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First game back in VP for months due to work commitments and Remy Jnr’s birthday game. “Nailed on dad” said the naive young junior whilst I paid £70 for tickets and another (at a snip!) £43 for a Coutinho shirt. Didn’t care in the slightest as it’s part of the ritual.
Loads of Gerrard is still fuming from the bar codes games, changes forthcoming etc. Team is announced to incredulity and stunned silence. Ings in for Watkins? What about the rest? What a bottle job!
Feeling something isn’t right with a Villa advert about something ‘Villa league cup win 1982’ ? Did I miss a youth cup here ?
First half we sang the usual repatoir with loads of colour and voice around. Ings denied a penalty and hits the post from a one on one. Loads of possession and triangle passing, no end product.
Time and again Digne just about to spring forward in space turns and plays infield. Meatball constantly giving the ball away then wins ball back with endeavour and gives it away again.
Luiz doesn’t want to be here with another anonymous performance.
About 3 times I saw Ramsey get in the way of either Buendia or Coutinho, picks up the ball then is crowded out nullifying any threat.
Coutinho - tricks, movement, balance….in sporadic areas not being harnessed where he can do most damage. Cash….oh Lordy what has happened son?
Substitutions….Luiz hooked, Cash hooked, Buendia hooked…Ings and Watkins can’t play together - WTF? Young - he’s 36 and past it! Why didn’t Hause start - he kept a clean sheet AND scored the winner at OT!
2nd half our tactic was to wait for them to make a mistake. No sign of Gerrard on the touch line when the tide of shit show starts to rise further. Frustration and anger amplify by 70th min as pass after pass goes astray and Watford wind down the clock.
Why isn’t Sanson starting? No Mings clanger this week!
I have no idea what SG does next as the players are not capable or accepting his ideas. If he persists with his implementation and we lose 5 on the spin by the time the saints game is over and we drop into the bottom 4 or 5 then he’ll lose the dressing room completely and us fans if we get a 5 or 6 nil battering with no lessons learned and the same shit being served up weekly.
Disappointed we lost but I’m in my 35th year of Villa supporting and junior is still learning the villa way of doing things. Onto Brighton !
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Football is strange and we might best / draw against better teams than Watford coming up.
I really hope so, as I feel, and hate to say, otherwise we are in danger of being dragged into a relegation scare.
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Wtaf!
Not f-cking good enough and I'm not just talking about the players on the pitch! 1 f-cking shot on target all game at VP!
Next win anyone?
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It amazes me that managers don't see what we see, with the Leeds game we played them at their own game, very attacking but in doing so exposed the defence, Yesterday it was obvious what their game plan was, hit us on the break, but off we went full tilt, full backs (sorry wing backs) galloping up the wings as instructed, the fact that they were leaving huge gaps behind them never sem to cross the players or coaches minds. Good players are being made to look incompetent because management want them to play as if they are worldies, which they are not. A note to Mr Gerrard say what you do and do what you say.
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On paper we’ve got some good players. To me it seems they’re out of form and the manager constantly calling them out for not being good enough is not helping. If my boss kept calling me out then I’d down tools. There’s some problems and it needs sorting out quickly.
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As disappointed as we all are,it’s going to take time…
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Gerrard needs his Dean Smith lockdown moment. We’re too easy and open to play against and the players are collectively lacking belief and confidence. Change the shape and make us harder to play against or we will get sucked into a dogfight.
All the teams at the bottom are stirring and there’s always one or two sides who sleepwalk into trouble from the middle of the table.
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Just watched motd, we looked worse than I remember. Still fuming at how shit we were, it was so obvious they were going to score on the counter.
All the subs made us worse, Buendia shouldn't have come off. Young was fucking shite. The midfield was a jumbled mess, in the first half Cash and McGinn were treading on each others toes.
It was a complete shambles tbh.
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We’re effectively playing the Christmas tree formation 4-3-2-1 which fell out of favour for good reason.
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How much longer do we have to put up with the ineptness of Mcginn. The times he gets the ball swivels round looking for the Hollywood pass and then either over cooks it ot it is intercepted makes me want to scream.
He should be nowhere near the side.
Luiz just looks like he doesn't give a fuck.
Can anyone actually think Digne is a £25m upgrade on Targett?
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Gerrard needs his Dean Smith lockdown moment. We’re too easy and open to play against and the players are collectively lacking belief and confidence. Change the shape and make us harder to play against or we will get sucked into a dogfight.
All the teams at the bottom are stirring and there’s always one or two sides who sleepwalk into trouble from the middle of the table.
I was thinking the same, we are far too predictable, it's good to play open attractive football but when you are in a slump go back to basics and stop the opposition from scoring.
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I get the feeling that Gerrard may turn out to be like Roy Keane.
Got the line up wrong & the changes made it worse.
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Amazing how quick feelings change.
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It was clear today that the system doesn’t suit McGinn, so, unfortunately, I would look to move him on in the summer to bring in a proper DM, unless Tim Ignebuem (?) gets his chance and shines.
Deigne was awful today, never made any real progress, he played no better than Targett going forward, but at least Targett can defend.
Swapping to 442 was utterly ridiculous
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Our home support had become crap too. On the players backs most of the game and fucks off with10 minutes to go, having barely made a peep. There's a sense of entitlement and sneering expectations rather than a sense of togetherness we had in the promotion run and first year back.
The lower Witton have always been shit houses, but it's infecting everywhere. Just catching the Kane winner and our away end would have been half empty given the late equaliser, if it had been us.
I read it differently. The crowd was quiet out of a sense of impending doom. When the goal went in, most people realised we wouldn't pull it back.
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I think that's the season done as far as achieving anything of note is concerned. This three-game run against bottom-half clubs, two in a relegation fight, should have set us up for an outside shot at the European places, but clearly that's done now. I was hoping for 9 points, expecting 6, and getting just 1 is crap.
Clearly we're playing poorly, and whether that's the players not adapting to what Gerrard wants, or whether what Gerrard wants doesn't work, I don't know. He's got a dozen or so games to get a tune out of these players, or come the summer he'll be gone, OR the club will back him and it'll be a big turnover of players to come in who CAN play how he wants.
What I don't understand right now is how we can play so well early in his tenure, and so lacklustre of late. We ARE a work in progress, but right now that progress seems to be in the wrong direction given how we were playing before Xmas.
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Well, it was pretty bad. By the time I got back, I didn't have the enthusiasm to come on here.
With the ball, we played actually okay for much of the game, and Ings appeared to be the player we thought we'd bought; playing well with Buendia.
But - as some others have pointed out - we are not maximising the system Gerrard is trying to play, making 5m passes between CBs rather than stretching the play. And, I really don't get that McGinn and Ramsey spend half their time as auxiliary fullbacks. Baffling.
When you look at Watford, it was obvious how they would play: tight and compact until a break presents itself, utilising the speed of Sarr and Dennis. This is exactly how it played out, but we did not adapt to address this obvious approach.
The 3 substitutions were rubbish - yes, perhaps the Cash one was forced on us by his deteriorating display; but Bailey and Watkins were inept. I continue to challenge Bailey's ability to play in this league.
Luiz is gone, for me. I just don't see what he adds to the team.
Coutinho is a waste of space in this system and appears as confused as the others in terms of what to do.
It's shite, and we've gone backwards.
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Cash must've shagged the missus of the bloke who was sitting next to. He was moaning at everything, when the ball was down the left and Cash was keeping wide to give us the width he was screaming at him to tuck in and make a congested midfield even worse, every single time. I'd never say anything to another fan, they're entitled to their opinion but I was very close to telling him to shut his ugly fat face.
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Watching Match of the Day we were lucky it was only 1 nil, Newcastle and Watford 2 of the worst teams in the league and we having even tested their keepers and why Sanson can't get into that team, I'll never know.
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The pace has all but vanished from our game. The keeper collected the ball from a corner, looked to get us on the counter and the ball didn't leave our half for 30 seconds, by which time they'd reset and that pattern continued throughout the game.
We are slow, ponderous, unimaginative and predictable so poor teams can play poorly and still win.
However bad the players are performing, that is down to formation, tactics and coaching and at the moment all three are sorely lacking.
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The pace has all but vanished from our game. The keeper collected the ball from a corner, looked to get us on the counter and the ball didn't leave our half for 30 seconds, by which time they'd reset and that pattern continued throughout the game.
We are slow, ponderous, unimaginative and predictable so poor teams can play poorly and still win.
However bad the players are performing, that is down to formation, tactics and coaching and at the moment all three are sorely lacking.
I'm not sure that we've ever had any real pace. It was a noticeable difference between us and Watford yesterday. They were mostly really crap, but had the pace of Dennis on the break. We played some OK football, but had the total non-pace of 87 year old Danny Ings.
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Ings looked knackered after an hour. He was puffing out his cheeks.
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It was clear today that the system doesn’t suit McGinn, so, unfortunately, I would look to move him on in the summer to bring in a proper DM, unless Tim Ignebuem (?) gets his chance and shines.
Deigne was awful today, never made any real progress, he played no better than Targett going forward, but at least Targett can defend.
Swapping to 442 was utterly ridiculous
i thought Digne was one of the better players. He was moving into space out wide but the pass would mostly go inside to the nearest player in the middle. It gets very congested around the edge of the opposition box. And we usually seem to lose momentum and pass the ball back. Lots of possession but we really struggle to make it count and then got done on the break.
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Watford carried out their game plan very well and could have had more.
The good thing about this poor run is we can all see what’s wrong, McGinn and Ramsey aren’t carrying a goal threat because they are covering our only width, the full backs, so when/if a cross arrives there aren’t enough players in the box as Buendia and Phil want the ball to feet on the edge of the box.
On Gerrard, Ive a bit of sympathy as he did try and change things but none of the subs made a positive impact, Coutinho looked utterly lost after the changes
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Wish we could find a bargain like Dennis from time to time. £3.5m he cost apparently. 9 goals and 5 assists already for a terrible team like Watford. They'll probably get £50m at least for him when they go down.
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Watford carried out their game plan very well and could have had more.
The good thing about this poor run is we can all see what’s wrong, McGinn and Ramsey aren’t carrying a goal threat because they are covering our only width, the full backs, so when/if a cross arrives there aren’t enough players in the box as Buendia and Phil want the ball to feet on the edge of the box.
On Gerrard, Ive a bit of sympathy as he did try and change things but none of the subs made a positive impact, Coutinho looked utterly lost after the changes
Pretty much agree with this.
Digne was getting frustrated in the 2nd half, as the amount of time he was acres of space and the ball just kept being played around at the back between Chambers, Mings and Luiz. Im not sure if the system is totally flawed or whether its just being deployed really badly by some of the players. Cash and Digne may not always have the best delivery, but if they got the ball quicker it would make a lot of difference.
For me i thought the game was lost in the 1st half and i said to some friends at half time if Watford scored first we were done. The opening 3 or 4 mins when we kept the ball, but didn’t actually make it over the half way line, set the tone for the rest of the game, not enough urgency. Saying that we should of had a penalty and that would of done a number of things, including change Watfords approach to the game and liven the crowd up.
On the crowd, the Holte End has been quite subdued for weeks, even the Leeds game, when i thought it would be bouncing. Possibly just the football being poor, but i think there is also some thing about mid table, 3rd season back in the premier league syndrome. Its mirrored a bit on here, with talk about worst football since Remi Garde etc. Things aren’t great, but are they really as bad as the years before relegation and then 2015/2016, or the championship years under Bruce, even the almost relegation year in 2019/2020? Gerrard needs a summer and full season next year and we all need to have some patience. We’re not going down, we need 4 wins and a draw out of 14 games.
Anyway going forwards for the next few games, There must be something up with Sanson, so think we need to forget about him. Luiz needs to come out though, so dont know if Chambers can play there, maybe we try him, Konsa will come back in at the back i would of thought. Id probably stick with Ings for next week, he looked lively first half and needs game time to get his match fitness up. Also can we please let Coutinhio take a free kick!
We just need to scrape a win from somewhere to calm everything down.
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Every team for the rest of the season will pack out the midfield against us because they will see that this is our obvious weakness. We are going to have to scrap and battle for every point unless Gerrard does something different, for which, we just don't have the personnel.
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Why weren't we given that most obvious of penalties in the 2nd minute? It was a clear penalty in real time, it took 10 seconds to see the replay and it was even more obvious.
VAR wants burning.
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Yep. You have someone on here saying Coutinho has turned from a prince into a frog just because he's not had two great games. Some of our fans are just ridiculously childish.
Yes people who pay good money to watch are childish. You should have said fickle as well just to rub it in.
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Why weren't we given that most obvious of penalties in the 2nd minute? It was a clear penalty in real time, it took 10 seconds to see the replay and it was even more obvious.
VAR wants burning.
Watching from North upper I have a very clear view of it and just couldn't believe the ref bottled it and VAR backed him up. I can understand the ref letting it go because it was too early in the game and he wasn't totally concentrating but VAR?
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Ings looked knackered after an hour. He was puffing out his cheeks.
I guess he is not match fit as he has not played much lately. But generally he is not on pace. My grandson (6 years) shouted at him to run when he was actually running.
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No scrutiny on the penalty controversy at the start from Lineker and co on MOTD. A joke - why wasn't Ings booked for diving if there was no contact according to the ref? I thought their defender caught the back of Ings leg to upend him. That was far more like a penalty than the Mo Salah/ Mings farce at Anfield in December. An early goal at that point would've completely changed the game as Watford would've had to come out of their defensive mode to open the game up. Also, VAR dismissed it so quickly!
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No scrutiny on the penalty controversy at the start from Lineker and co on MOTD. A joke - why wasn't Ings booked for diving if there was no contact according to the ref? I thought their defender caught the back of Ings leg to upend him. That was far more like a penalty than the Mo Salah/ Mings farce at Anfield in December. An early goal at that point would've completely changed the game as Watford would've had to come out of their defensive mode to open the game up. Also, VAR dismissed it so quickly!
Yes, it definitely looked like Ings had been clipped. If the ref had given it no way would VAR have overturned the decision.
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The fourth official apparently agreed with Gerrard that it would have been a foul outside the box!
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A horrible performance all round, and other than some good saves from Martinez I can’t think of a single positive from that game. The players were poor, the crowd subdued and I also didn’t even notice any animation Gerrard on the touch line. To cap it off the trains back to London were, once again, abysmal.
One thing that strikes me is that when Gerrard came I heard a comment from a Rangers fan that we needed to keep an eye on Michael Beale, as his substitutions were brilliant and helped turn games. I think they were very good in the first 6-7 games but going back to Everton away last month our substitutions seem to be making us weaker. When Luiz went off yesterday McGinn briefly looked more comfortable playing in a central role, but Watkins and Ings just don’t gel and we quickly lost our way. Young for Cash didn’t make sense at all and Bailey looked rusty - understandably.
Feels like we need to go back to basics as we did when Gerrard arrived and be compact and hard to beat.
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I must say I think Chambers is a solid meat & two veg stopper but the thought of him playing midfield isn't a particularly attractive one.
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I must say I think Chambers is a solid meat & two veg stopper but the thought of him playing midfield isn't a particularly attractive one.
Same. He's not terrible, but watching him you just get an overriding feeling of "average utility player."
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Why weren't we given that most obvious of penalties in the 2nd minute? It was a clear penalty in real time, it took 10 seconds to see the replay and it was even more obvious.
VAR wants burning.
Watching from North upper I have a very clear view of it and just couldn't believe the ref bottled it and VAR backed him up. I can understand the ref letting it go because it was too early in the game and he wasn't totally concentrating but VAR?
I sometimes think there is a conspiracy. We have had very little change out of Var in the past two years.
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Just watched us again on MOTD and although we had 60% possession, the 4 good chances all fell to Watford. If not for Martinez that could have been 0-3 easily.
What are the chances? A goalkeeper doing what he's paid to do. Pity some of the outfield players don't follow his example.
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The ref came across as very biased towards Watford all game, There was a 20 minute spell in the 2nd half were he blew every single 50/50 in there favour. The worst 'decision' for me was the Cash one by the Watford corner flag, he was been man handled by their defender and somehow it was given as a Watford Free Kick.
I didnt see the pen as i couldnt get my stream to work for the first 10 minutes.
I'm by no means blaming the referee for the loss. As bad as he was, we still managed to out do him.
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Yep. You have someone on here saying Coutinho has turned from a prince into a frog just because he's not had two great games. Some of our fans are just ridiculously childish.
Yes people who pay good money to watch are childish. You should have said fickle as well just to rub it in.
I do have to say that I think some of the comments in this particular thread have been way over the top and don't reflect too well to be totally honest. Just my opinion of course.
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I sometimes think there is a conspiracy. We have had very little change out of Var in the past two years.
Most supporters think the same, I've read comments from Liverpool and Yanited fans complaining how refs and VAR screw them over (I know).
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We were very quiet and even when Watford fans sang theres only one Graham Taylor we didn't join in.
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We were very quiet and even when Watford fans sang theres only one Graham Taylor we didn't join in.
yep that was disappointing
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We were very quiet and even when Watford fans sang theres only one Graham Taylor we didn't join in.
There was a bit of applause but that was it.
yep that was disappointing
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he needs to stop the rot fast…. Konsa back next week, so stick Chambers at DM in for Doug Luis, Sanson in for McGinn, and stick with Ings up front, as there was a spark and intelligence between him and Coutinho/Buendia.
this
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How much longer do we have to put up with the ineptness of Mcginn. The times he gets the ball swivels round looking for the Hollywood pass and then either over cooks it ot it is intercepted makes me want to scream.
He should be nowhere near the side.
Luiz just looks like he doesn't give a fuck.
Can anyone actually think Digne is a £25m upgrade on Targett?
That embarrassing free kick he took at Newcastle last week sums McGinn up at the moment. You wouldn't even see that over the park on a Sunday morning.
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We were very quiet and even when Watford fans sang theres only one Graham Taylor we didn't join in.
There was a bit of applause but that was it.
yep that was disappointing
I am sad to say a lot of younger Villa fans probably don't appreciate SGT's impact and legacy when we were crying out for just what he delivered between 1987 and 1990. He was appointed on the exact same day I left
comprehensive school. I distinctly remember ducking and diving to avoid the traditional eggs and flower bombardment from my school mates by taking refuge in the newsagents and to my utter shock and delight I saw the Evening Mail headline announcing SGT had been appointed Villa manager. I am also proud to say I was at his first game at Portman Road, his last game at Goodison and his first England qualifying game in charge. I was also fortunate to meet him in person twice.
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Yep. You have someone on here saying Coutinho has turned from a prince into a frog just because he's not had two great games. Some of our fans are just ridiculously childish.
Yes people who pay good money to watch are childish. You should have said fickle as well just to rub it in.
Agreed mate.
Fucking hell, the way I rant about Villa and the useless morons playing for us, I've only just been conceived if the term 'childish' is being thrown around.
I can't stand most of our team. Overpaid, one paced, meek, lacking creativity and intelligence. Nowhere near enough effort, guile and providing almost fuck all in the way of excitement.
Oh well, Brighton next. They'll no doubt look like they're playing a different sport to us. Luckily for us, they don't score many. Unfortunately for us, we don't really look like scoring.
Sort it out Steven.
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I’ve noticed that when we are playing really crap, boring football, some people seem to blame the supporters for not creating the right atmosphere. The way I see it is that when the players come out, to that absolute shit music they play, they get a great response from the crowd. It only goes very quiet when there is really not much to shout about. The players need to give the supporters something to cheer about. It’s so difficult to get excited about anything if the ball is being played around across the back for what seems an eternity before we invariably give it away to the opposition. One shot on target throughout 90 minutes is not exactly going to get people out of their seats. In conclusion, I feel that the crowd are right behind the team when the match starts but, in my opinion, it’s up to the players to create some excitement so the supporters can continue to be vocal in their support.
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I’ve noticed that when we are playing really crap, boring football, some people seem to blame the supporters for not creating the right atmosphere. The way I see it is that when the players come out, to that absolute shit music they play, they get a great response from the crowd. It only goes very quiet when there is really not much to shout about. The players need to give the supporters something to cheer about. It’s so difficult to get excited about anything if the ball is being played around across the back for what seems an eternity before we invariably give it away to the opposition. One shot on target throughout 90 minutes is not exactly going to get people out of their seats. In conclusion, I feel that the crowd are right behind the team when the match starts but, in my opinion, it’s up to the players to create some excitement so the supporters can continue to be vocal in their support.
There's always the cyclical argument that it's a two way street, but yeah, give the crowd something to get excited about and they'll usually respond. Lots of times I've seen a great atmosphere for the crowd and a crap performance from the team. Can't think of too many great performances and shit atmospheres (Covid lockdown period excepted of course).
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Well, that opening couple of minutes to take the sting out of the home crowd certainly worked.
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Anyone know in a narrow midfield we play mcginn on the right and Ramsey on the left, both playing on their weaker side forcing them to come inside into a congested midfield. Piss poor today.
Its really frustrating that we do this, our whole game plan seems like its set up to crowd the middle.
I think it is to get it forward to Cash so he can pass it to an opposition defender.
I’m not sure I’d describe McGinn’s current position as midfield. He’s effectively an Inside full-back in this strange system we’re playing.
Yeah, not a fan of this system at all. Effectively the full-backs are wingers and the two outside midfielders are full-backs. How about playing full-backs as full-backs and wingers as wingers? It might catch on.
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What a contrast, watching the Leeds match. On a really difficult pitch, both teams are giving it their all which is also keeping the crowd going. Leeds made 2 changes at half time and pulled back their two goal deficit within 10 minutes. They are now 2-3 down but still giving everything making for a cracking match.
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The same thing happened when we played Man United, only we didn't concede a third.
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Why weren't we given that most obvious of penalties in the 2nd minute? It was a clear penalty in real time, it took 10 seconds to see the replay and it was even more obvious.
VAR wants burning.
Watching from North upper I have a very clear view of it and just couldn't believe the ref bottled it and VAR backed him up. I can understand the ref letting it go because it was too early in the game and he wasn't totally concentrating but VAR?
I’m North Upper, too, have to be honest and say I thought their player got a toe on the ball (haven’t seen any tv coverage to confirm this or not)
That said, anywhere else on the pitch and it’s a foul, toe on the ball or not.
Let’s face it, though, even if the ref had given the penalty VAR would have ruled it out after 5 minutes of scrutiny and line drawing.
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Watford have done the double over us sums up this shithouse of a season.
You could make the argument that two of our worst performances independently and collectively easily the worst over two games have come against a side that in all likelihood will be relegated. Only Aston Villa
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Watford and Newcastle were absolute shithouses/experts in rotational "pretend that you've been fouled and injured", taking the sting out of the game and stopping any momentum we were trying to build-up. This happened at 0-0 and the stop-start nature was not conducive to our laborious build-ups.
Another obvious thing is our complete lack of athleticism - Watford's dangerous players are all tall, fast, lean and able to brush-off challenges.
In these traits alone, you can see why we were after Bissouma. McGinn and Luiz, Sanson and even Ramsey to a lesser extent, tend to get physically dominated and lose-out on 50/50s. We have a lot of work to do in terms of "recruitment" and coaching to get where the club wants to go.
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Watford and Newcastle were absolute shithouses/experts in rotational "pretend that you've been fouled and injured", taking the sting out of the game and stopping any momentum we were trying to build-up. This happened at 0-0 and the stop-start nature was not conducive to our laborious build-ups.
Another obvious thing is our complete lack of athleticism - Watford's dangerous players are all tall, fast, lean and able to brush-off challenges.
In these traits alone, you can see why we were after Bissouma. McGinn and Luiz, Sanson and even Ramsey to a lesser extent, tend to get physically dominated and lose-out on 50/50s. We have a lot of work to do in terms of "recruitment" and coaching to get where the club wants to go.
What's a Sanson?
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I must say I think Chambers is a solid meat & two veg stopper but the thought of him playing midfield isn't a particularly attractive one.
Same. He's not terrible, but watching him you just get an overriding feeling of "average utility player."
hes our new simon grayson
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30 yard screamer next week against the Albion incoming.
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The thing that really annoyed me yesterday was in both halfs our ponderous passing and inability to switch the ball at pace meant we didn’t make any use of Cash and Digne standing in acres of space waiting for the ball. Added to which Watfords athleticism meant they covered the width of the pitch with ease despite playing narrow.
Our lack of physicality was also exposed badly in the second half as we were totally outcompeted for second balls time and again. Watford always seems to be coming onto the ball whereas we were rushed and frantic and unable to play a player into space without them continually waiting for the ball or it not being into stride.
I think the subs were substandard and totally disrupted our set up and flow.
But despite all that it was a massive improvement on Newcastle. I think we’ll see a more pragmatic performance against Brighton.
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England used to have an issue that we had Gerrard ,Lampard and Scholars but couldn't figure a way to get them in the same team.I think we have a similar issue ..Luiz / Ramsey and McGinn individually you can make a case for them to be in the team but as a Unit they just don't work
The last 2 games Newcastle and Watford have sat deep ,used physicality to win the MF and shithoused it with using every trick to slow the game down.I expect a different game v Brighton who are a better team than those 2 but will attack
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Watford and Newcastle were absolute shithouses/experts in rotational "pretend that you've been fouled and injured", taking the sting out of the game and stopping any momentum we were trying to build-up.
They were but I dont blame them in the slightest. Theres an easy way we could have countered that.
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I’ve noticed that when we are playing really crap, boring football, some people seem to blame the supporters for not creating the right atmosphere. The way I see it is that when the players come out, to that absolute shit music they play, they get a great response from the crowd. It only goes very quiet when there is really not much to shout about. The players need to give the supporters something to cheer about. It’s so difficult to get excited about anything if the ball is being played around across the back for what seems an eternity before we invariably give it away to the opposition. One shot on target throughout 90 minutes is not exactly going to get people out of their seats. In conclusion, I feel that the crowd are right behind the team when the match starts but, in my opinion, it’s up to the players to create some excitement so the supporters can continue to be vocal in their support.
Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
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We were very quiet and even when Watford fans sang theres only one Graham Taylor we didn't join in.
We were in the upper Holte, a long way back, and didn’t hear them all game, though you could see they were animated after their goal.
yep that was disappointing
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
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Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
[/quote]
Please God no. A source of embarrassment then and would be even more so now.
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
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Feeling something isn’t right with a Villa advert about something ‘Villa league cup win 1982’ ? Did I miss a youth cup here ?
That wound me up last time I was at Villa Park. Something about 10 (?) League titles, but then including 2nd tier conquests. To my eyes, Villa being out of the top division is a failure for the club regardless of what happens*, and it shouldn't be celebrated.
* Not to degrade the achievements of Taylor, Smith etc who led us back to our natural habitat.
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
I was thinking this...
It's possibly safe to say; even if we throw £500mil at the squad over the next 5 years we'll struggle to break into the top 4, or win a major trophy. So, how long will NWSE stick at it for if they're making no money or getting the success they need?
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
Hopefully not as quickly as our supporters.
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
Hopefully not as quickly as our supporters.
Ads. I have looked at it in the cold light of day and have to say our squad is not up to it. Look at the dingles. They are putting us to shame and I live amongst the fuckers.
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
Hopefully not as quickly as our supporters.
Ads. I have looked at it in the cold light of day and have to say our squad is not up to it. Look at the dingles. They are putting us to shame and I live amongst the fuckers.
Fucking hell CCR it’s one defeat and whilst I’m as frustrated as the next man this is miserablism at its peak.
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
I find it hard to believe that we all support the same club sometimes.
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I’d rather have the stranglers, something better change.
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I always think The Mercy Seat would be good. In many ways.
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Well this season we will win the square root of fuck all. How long before our owners decide to throw the towel in ?
Hopefully not as quickly as our supporters.
Ads. I have looked at it in the cold light of day and have to say our squad is not up to it. Look at the dingles. They are putting us to shame and I live amongst the fuckers.
It must be tough living in Dinglevania or whatever the fuck they call that area they inhabit. Esp for the 3 or 4 years in the entirety of time that they've had any reason to crow over us.
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
I find it hard to believe that we all support the same club sometimes.
Astonishing, isn't it?
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
I find it hard to believe that we all support the same club sometimes.
Might as well go back to the A Team Theme tune from out 86-87 relegation season! Even as a 13 year at the time i got the irony of that, hilarious.
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
I find it hard to believe that we all support the same club sometimes.
Whilst I like Queen's music and am probably more of a fan than you or SE (though not quite at Damo levels) playing 'We Will Rock You' would be naff.
Like the ground move the walkout music question has been done to death here and the correct answers are stay at Villa Park and 'Paranoid' by Sabbath.
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BV, with you all the way. I’ve said in the past it should be Paranoid by Black Sabbath.
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BV, with you all the way. I’ve said in the past it should be Paranoid by Black Sabbath.
Just imagine 13.5k in the Holte End doing air guitar? We would have to teach the kids though
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
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Watching the Fulham game and their fans were chanting c'mon Fulham, I thought how quaint and supportive.
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
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Oops. I quite like Queen. Some absolute classic songs and one of the best front men ever
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
Butlins is like a holiday camp compared to where they deserve to be.
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IF we cant make progress with the owners we currently have (who are throwing millions at the club each season) what chance have we got to be successful?
Saturday was an awful performance, hopefully Steve will remember this in the summer and show a ruthless streak and get rid of quite a few.
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Relieved to see a healthy level of contempt for Queen on here.
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Agree, the entrance 'music' is dire and not in the least bit inspiring. Why has the club stuck with that crap for so many seasons? Most people hate it. Why not change back to Queen's We Will Rock You? We used to play that in the 90s & early 2000s.
Paging Risso...
I find it hard to believe that we all support the same club sometimes.
Might as well go back to the A Team Theme tune from out 86-87 relegation season! Even as a 13 year at the time i got the irony of that, hilarious.
I’ve said it before but I loved it when we came out to the Hurricane Smith number. Not everyone’s cup of tea I know but it worked for me
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IF we cant make progress with the owners we currently have (who are throwing millions at the club each season) what chance have we got to be successful?
Saturday was an awful performance, hopefully Steve will remember this in the summer and show a ruthless streak and get rid of quite a few.
I worry he would recruit MON style replacements on huge wages
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Every time I have seen Watkins this season toil up front and take 2, 3, 4 extra touches to absolutely guarantee that his shot will be blocked, I've thought "play Ings"
Every time I've seen Ings running around like he's pulling a tractor tyre behind him, I've thought "play Watkins".
What about Bailey or Traore up top? Rather than a holdup forward, they'd be on the shoulder of the last man looking to get onto throughballs at pace. Coutinho is more than capable of threading through such passes, and if Buendia can learn to pass a ball without scuffing it, he can too.
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30 yard screamer next week against the Albion incoming.
More like 16 yards out
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
Butlins is like a holiday camp compared to where they deserve to be.
Fkin hate Queen.
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Every time I have seen Watkins this season toil up front and take 2, 3, 4 extra touches to absolutely guarantee that his shot will be blocked, I've thought "play Ings"
Every time I've seen Ings running around like he's pulling a tractor tyre behind him, I've thought "play Watkins".
What about Bailey or Traore up top? Rather than a holdup forward, they'd be on the shoulder of the last man looking to get onto throughballs at pace. Coutinho is more than capable of threading through such passes, and if Buendia can learn to pass a ball without scuffing it, he can too.
Either of those two up front would have to play as a front two with a physio as the other forward.
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Relieved to see a healthy level of contempt for Queen on here.
Luca Dign-ya and Matt Targett love them!
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Relieved to see a healthy level of contempt for Queen on here.
Luca Dign-ya and Matt Targett love them!
Though they still prefer Leftfield.
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
Butlins is like a holiday camp compared to where they deserve to be.
Fkin hate Queen.
Fkin love Queen
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Just saw the Ings pen decision on SSN. Fucking hell.
The panel saying VAR wouldnt get involved because it wasnt clear and obvious. I will remember that next time we're having a 5 minute check at Old Trafford.
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Just saw the Ings pen decision on SSN. Fucking hell.
The panel saying VAR wouldnt get involved because it wasnt clear and obvious. I will remember that next time we're having a 5 minute check at Old Trafford.
They didn't show it on the highlights but they've got it here on Watford's website:
https://www.watfordfc.com/video/match-highlights/highlights-aston-villa-0-1-watford-premier-league-202122#play
How the fuck is that not a penalty, absolutely nailed on, all day long.
We didn't play well, but score that after two minutes and their game plan of 11 men behind the ball and breaking on the counter plus time wasting at every opportunity goes out of the window, and we'd probably end up 3-0 winners.
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If it wasn't a penalty then why was it a corner seeing as their guy didn't touch the ball?
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
Butlins is like a holiday camp compared to where they deserve to be.
Fkin hate Queen.
Fkin love Queen
Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
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You mean others think Queen are meh too?
They are far, far worse than 'meh'. They are an abomination. An absolute embarrassment to our species.
I agree with SE.
Same. They belong at Butlins. Cabaret shite.
Butlins is like a holiday camp compared to where they deserve to be.
Fkin hate Queen.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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I think all that Heavy Metal has sent you a bit mutton, BV! ;)
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Just saw the Ings pen decision on SSN. Fucking hell.
The panel saying VAR wouldnt get involved because it wasnt clear and obvious. I will remember that next time we're having a 5 minute check at Old Trafford.
They didn't show it on the highlights but they've got it here on Watford's website:
https://www.watfordfc.com/video/match-highlights/highlights-aston-villa-0-1-watford-premier-league-202122#play
How the fuck is that not a penalty, absolutely nailed on, all day long.
We didn't play well, but score that after two minutes and their game plan of 11 men behind the ball and breaking on the counter plus time wasting at every opportunity goes out of the window, and we'd probably end up 3-0 winners.
Yeah as clear and obvious as you could get, penalty all day long.
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From the first 2 minutes of the game where we passed it around the back and kept possession in our own half and not one Watford player even attempted to make a challenge, it was obvious they were happy to just not concede, and would have taken the nil-nil then.
Too many times they pulled 10 men behind the ball and we were left wondering how to break it down.
A couple of key moments, the penalty that wasn't, the Digne free kick (that didn't have a lucky Trippier deflection), and the Ings chance that hit the post, all could have been in our favour but weren't.
I struggle to see where our next win will come from, but it won't be against the bottom teams, unless we change the way we play.
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I think all that Heavy Metal has sent you a bit mutton, BV! ;)
Queen are pop, not metal :D
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Queen were excellent in their day and highly innovative, but times have changed.
I would think "Let Us Burn" by Within Temptation would be more appropriate as the players come out these days.
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Queen were excellent in their day and highly innovative, but times have changed.
I would think "Let Us Burn" by Within Temptation would be more appropriate as the players come out these days.
"I Can't Even Be Bothered" by the Charlatans would be more appropriate.
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The more you see the penalty the more it looks like a penalty
Could you imaging any of the scum 6 not getting that?????
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From the first 2 minutes of the game where we passed it around the back and kept possession in our own half and not one Watford player even attempted to make a challenge, it was obvious they were happy to just not concede, and would have taken the nil-nil then.
Too many times they pulled 10 men behind the ball and we were left wondering how to break it down.
A couple of key moments, the penalty that wasn't, the Digne free kick (that didn't have a lucky Trippier deflection), and the Ings chance that hit the post, all could have been in our favour but weren't.
I struggle to see where our next win will come from, but it won't be against the bottom teams, unless we change the way we play.
Right up until they scored they were aiming for the point. Their defending was last-ditch with an hour left.
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Our xG was 1.25 to their 1.75. But I think that flatters us because I'm sure Ings was offside for his shot that hit the post, so that takes us down 0.44.
Our xGOT (expected goals on target) was 0.08. That is horrific. Our only shot on target was Buendia's weak left foot curler after 60 minutes. Watfords xGOT was 1.94. So Martinez did well, on the flipside they could probably have had Hodgson himself in goal and not conceded.
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Our xG was 1.25 to their 1.75. But I think that flatters us because I'm sure Ings was offside for his shot that hit the post, so that takes us down 0.44.
Our xGOT (expected goals on target) was 0.08. That is horrific. Our only shot on target was Buendia's weak left foot curler after 60 minutes. Watfords xGOT was 1.94. So Martinez did well, on the flipside they could probably have had Hodgson himself in goal and not conceded.
I understood the last sentence but what language was the rest?
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If it wasn't a penalty then why was it a corner seeing as their guy didn't touch the ball?
I think the claim was that their bloke played the ball first before fouling Ings. Which still makes it a penalty.
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Our xG was 1.25 to their 1.75. But I think that flatters us because I'm sure Ings was offside for his shot that hit the post, so that takes us down 0.44.
Our xGOT (expected goals on target) was 0.08. That is horrific. Our only shot on target was Buendia's weak left foot curler after 60 minutes. Watfords xGOT was 1.94. So Martinez did well, on the flipside they could probably have had Hodgson himself in goal and not conceded.
I understood the last sentence but what language was the rest?
Apologies. xG (expected goals) is a measure of the quality of chances created, and xGOT (expected goals on target) factors in the quality of the finishing. So on Saturday even though we had 20 shots they were all from positions where a goal was unlikely, and the quality of the shots was very poor. Watford created less chances but they were in much better positions and they finished better. Basically the stats back up my instinctive view that we wouldn't have scored if we'd played all night, but Watford would have kept coming up with more goals on the counter every now and then.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
It is watching Villa at the moment
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
It certainly is for us. It should be 0 at the moment.
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My question is, has anyone worked out a statistic for expected VAR decisions in a sides favour? Ours would be non existent.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I'd not taken much notice of it, but I'd say Saturday was a clear example of why it's effective. We may have had 20 shots, but they were in the "Diana Ross at the 94 World Cup" bracket.
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If it wasn't a penalty then why was it a corner seeing as their guy didn't touch the ball?
I think the claim was that their bloke played the ball first before fouling Ings. Which still makes it a penalty.
I said at the time that the defender got a touch on the ball, which he clearly did, so wasn’t sure on a penalty.
Until just now I hadn’t seen tv footage, that was a nailed on penalty. Anywhere else on the pitch and a foul would have been given.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I'd not taken much notice of it, but I'd say Saturday was a clear example of why it's effective. We may have had 20 shots, but they were in the "Diana Ross at the 94 World Cup" bracket.
If only; i’d have loved to seen Danny Ings or Watkins do a freedom run through the middle of the goal as it collapsed on either side post shot.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
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We are no threat from corners, we could get fifty a game and never score, our only player capable has sat out the last two games.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
I also think it’s a load of big bollocks
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
I also think it’s a load of big bollocks
It is, kind of, but if looked at the basic stats of Saturday not having watched the game, you might think we were unlucky. But their fewer attempts were much more dangerous than ours.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
Thats interesting. In what way and for what purpose do clubs and coaches invest in such bollocks? I didn't know that.
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xG does get distorted by how a game changes after a team takes the lead though i.e Watford were set-up to play on the counter-attack all day. Two of their best chances came after they scored as we left more gaps at the back in an attempt to rescue the game. They should have made it 2-0 a couple of times but for Martinez saves but their xG at 0-0 would have probably been as bad as ours.
Also, Southampton were clearly the better team at Old Trafford recently in a 1-1 (as were Brighton midweek before a jammy red-card), yet their xG was less than Yaniteds; so while useful, I don't think it tells the full story in who "deserved" to win a game.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
Thats interesting. In what way and for what purpose do clubs and coaches invest in such bollocks? I didn't know that.
Because its a good indicator of the real chances created. Checking whether or not the bollocks are firing blanks as it were.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
Thats interesting. In what way and for what purpose do clubs and coaches invest in such bollocks? I didn't know that.
Because its a good indicator of the real chances created. Checking whether or not the bollocks are firing blanks as it were.
xG is a statistic. And like all good statistics, they work better the larger the sample size. In an individual match they can tell a story, but they're not particularly useful for analysis. Over the course of weeks, months, or a season, they can teach you a lot about how you play and the quality of chances you create and concede.
In one game, some excellent finishing and/or poor finishing at the other end can lead to xG being VERY different to the actual match result - but over a season it's pretty accurate for most clubs.
I like to look at xG for individual strikers over the course of a season, as I always think it's a good indicator of their finishing ability. Have they got more or less goals than they should, given the quality of the chances they've had. Sometimes the players with the most goals should actually have more given the quality of the chances created for them, and those players around 10 goals for the season are outperforming the chances they've actually had.
It's just another tool for teams looking to get any possible incremenetal advantage over the opposition.
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My question is, has anyone worked out a statistic for expected VAR decisions in a sides favour? Ours would be non existent.
I dunno but apparently Manchester United are top of the table.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
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My question is, has anyone worked out a statistic for expected VAR decisions in a sides favour? Ours would be non existent.
I dunno but apparently Manchester United are top of the table.
They and Liverpool would definitely be up there. Someone else made the point that if that was Mo Salah in a scouse red shirt rather than Ings in a villa shirt he would have got a penalty at the weekend. 100% agree. Contrast how VAR tried any means possible to disallow Ings goal in the cup game against the Manchester Reds Vs how it was desperate to cancel out Watkins goal for offside at Newcastle.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
Not specifically McCormack related (though it does get there eventually, I promise), but rather something that made me think of him very recently. Ben Foster has a podcast, it's pretty good (the episode with Neil Cutler is very good). But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Anyway, I only mention it because it reminded me of the McCormack transfer, in that Fulham signed him on a five-year contract, and sold him to us after two years for pretty much what they paid for him (a small profit), and they did that after he scored over 40 goals for them in those two seasons. CLEARLY they knew something we didn't, and it makes me think just how bad our risk assessments must have been back then.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
Not specifically McCormack related (though it does get there eventually, I promise), but rather something that made me think of him very recently. Ben Foster has a podcast, it's pretty good (the episode with Neil Cutler is very good). But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Anyway, I only mention it because it reminded me of the McCormack transfer, in that Fulham signed him on a five-year contract, and sold him to us after two years for pretty much what they paid for him (a small profit), and they did that after he scored over 40 goals for them in those two seasons. CLEARLY they knew something we didn't, and it makes me think just how bad our risk assessments must have been back then.
Yeah that always didn’t add up that they were happy to sell to a rival. It was probably the same team that did a risk assessment on Micah Richards; the Benson & Hedges method.
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But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Possibly Emmanuel Petit.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
Not specifically McCormack related (though it does get there eventually, I promise), but rather something that made me think of him very recently. Ben Foster has a podcast, it's pretty good (the episode with Neil Cutler is very good). But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Anyway, I only mention it because it reminded me of the McCormack transfer, in that Fulham signed him on a five-year contract, and sold him to us after two years for pretty much what they paid for him (a small profit), and they did that after he scored over 40 goals for them in those two seasons. CLEARLY they knew something we didn't, and it makes me think just how bad our risk assessments must have been back then.
McCormack showing up to his shirt stretching announcement at least a stone overweight kind of set the alarm bells ringing.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
Not specifically McCormack related (though it does get there eventually, I promise), but rather something that made me think of him very recently. Ben Foster has a podcast, it's pretty good (the episode with Neil Cutler is very good). But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Anyway, I only mention it because it reminded me of the McCormack transfer, in that Fulham signed him on a five-year contract, and sold him to us after two years for pretty much what they paid for him (a small profit), and they did that after he scored over 40 goals for them in those two seasons. CLEARLY they knew something we didn't, and it makes me think just how bad our risk assessments must have been back then.
McCormack showing up to his shirt stretching announcement at least a stone overweight kind of set the alarm bells ringing.
It was a sign that the Dr Tony revolution was in full swig.
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But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Possibly Emmanuel Petit.
I was thinking Santi Cazorla.
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Expected Goals is just a load of bollocks.
I doubt clubs and coaches would invest so much time and money into it if it was. Just because you don't understand it (and nor do I), that doesn't automatically make it bollocks.
We invested time and money in Ross McCormack.
We certainly didn’t do our homework on him that’s for sure. But then again, the side who are obsessed with standardising football to a fine art didn’t think to check up on their £100m investment prior to buying him.
Not specifically McCormack related (though it does get there eventually, I promise), but rather something that made me think of him very recently. Ben Foster has a podcast, it's pretty good (the episode with Neil Cutler is very good). But on one episode they were talking about medicals, and he had the old Arsenal physio in talking about them, and basically, they were saying the idea that players "fail" or "pass" medicals is a misnomer. It's all about risk. The medical professionals go to the commercial side and say, we've found X, Y or Z (or not as the case may be), and the commercial/playing side decide if it's worth the risk based on that information. He gave a very specific example (without naming the player), of Arsenal spending a few million on a midfielder, back when this was quite a lot, giving him a 5-year contract, despite the medical staff saying "his knees will be done in four years, tops". Wenger said "thanks for that information, but this is what we're doing". They sold this player after two years, despite him being a regular first-team player, and popular with the fans. His career petered out quickly and he was done playing two years after that.
Anyway, I only mention it because it reminded me of the McCormack transfer, in that Fulham signed him on a five-year contract, and sold him to us after two years for pretty much what they paid for him (a small profit), and they did that after he scored over 40 goals for them in those two seasons. CLEARLY they knew something we didn't, and it makes me think just how bad our risk assessments must have been back then.
McCormack showing up to his shirt stretching announcement at least a stone overweight kind of set the alarm bells ringing.
It was a sign that the Dr Tony revolution was in full swig.
I’ve just read this thread - and it’s a load if bollocks.
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My question is, has anyone worked out a statistic for expected VAR decisions in a sides favour? Ours would be non existent.
I dunno but apparently Manchester United are top of the table.
They and Liverpool would definitely be up there. Someone else made the point that if that was Mo Salah in a scouse red shirt rather than Ings in a villa shirt he would have got a penalty at the weekend. 100% agree. Contrast how VAR tried any means possible to disallow Ings goal in the cup game against the Manchester Reds Vs how it was desperate to cancel out Watkins goal for offside at Newcastle.
Didn't Kane win one very similar off Cash at VP last season? Actually Kane's was more simulated than anything Ings did last weekend.