Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Ger Regan on February 13, 2022, 04:00:58 PM
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Pathetic.
I refuse to believe that Sanson would be any worse than either Luiz or McGinn. If we start the next game with the same 3 in midfield the only thing i can assume would be that gerrard has his favourites.
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That, them and they can fuck off.
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Abysmal.
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Fuck me. We look shite and why we don't try some different players I'll never know. Sanson, Ings, Chukwuemeka perhaps.
Anyway, onwards to Watford....
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pathetic all round.
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No player ratings required, rotten.
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Shocked
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Leeds and today were supposed to be the first two games of a 'winnable' run of games.
For those who saw the end, what was Gerrard's body language about? What happened?
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Fucking shit
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The PL moves at a blistering pace and has no time for sentiment.
Today was all on SG from the starting line up through to waiting way too long to make a change.
Then to slump back in his chair.
Get rid and start again.
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The body language thing was really poor. It was almost as if he was out of ideas, which is how we played.
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Brainless defeat, how slow we were knocking the ball around in injury time said it all.
Season that never really begun for many reasons is pretty much over now, only target to finish in top 10 and that suddenly looks more doubtful than a few weeks back as in true fashion we're messing up the easier games.
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He might keep us up, I suppose.
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I am struggling for a positive other than it is over
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Felt like a preseason friendly from the start on our side
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Just the sort of ugly game you tend to get with a struggling team managing the game in their own ugly but effective way, with the opposition (us) simply incapable of creating any flow. I'm convinced Wednesday's efforts had something to do with that; both Coutinho and Buendia very ineffective, Ramsey not able to boss the game as he did the other night; Chambers suffering from big-game nerves with some wayward passing. Rotten luck on their free kick and also on our over-ruled goal but basically got what we deserved.
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Disappointing.
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We were robbed.
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McGinn and especially Luiz very poor. Luiz needs a boot up the arse. His decision making at times is bewildering.Newcastle are on a high but are a really poor side.
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Changes need to be made now.
There are enough midfield options and Ings gets a start for me just to change it.
The last 15 minutes were just a pathetic mess.
Stupid yellow cards from a team that lost discipline and had no clue.
Awful.
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We really are the saviours for any crap team desperate for points. Watford will come next week fully believing they have a chance of completing the double over us. Every game, you never know what team will turn up and unless we can get some consistency, we will never achieve anything.
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The intensity has gone, players seemingly too happy to make mistake after mistake. The body language was awful from players and manager.
Absolute shit show and a fucking embarrassment.
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Not good enough. Our midfield is a problem.
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As bad anything Bruce served up.
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Embarrassing.
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They can all fuck off. I am sick of the sight of them. Bottlers.
We are going fucking nowhere because we recruit too many players who don't have any bottle for a scrap. 11 years and counting since Aston Villa, one of England's most successful clubs, managed a top half finish.
Not good enough.
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No player ratings required…
That’s a blow.
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I expected us to lose today but that was another level of patience testing wank. No positives, no glimmers of hope. Just utter garbage from start to finish.
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Dreadful , absolutely no idea what our game plan was
No structure, no system , clueless
Did we ever look like scoring , apart from the VAR story
The commentator said when SJM was hoiked , you could have taken anyone off, they were all that bad
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I know the word shit gets thrown around in a hyperbolic way quite alot on forums but in this case its very apt.
We haven't forced there keeper into one single save all game.
It seems Gerrard has one system and one system only, all changes will be like for like to fit that one system.
They wont have an easier win all season, we couldn't have been more accomadating to them. Started slowly, gifted them a goal then proceeded to slow the game down at will which allowed them to get back into shape. Then when we shouldve been frantically at them in the last 15 minutes we gave away an insane of amount of stupid free kicks.
If Gerrard is to stick with this system, and boy does it look like he will, then you cant have a lone striker that cant hold the ball up. Literally everything came straight back at us as soon as we passed/hoofed it up to Watkins and due to this we couldnt get Coutinho/Ramsey/Buendia far enough up the putch to hurt them. Davis would be a much better fit to this system than Watkins or Ings.
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Leeds and today were supposed to be the first two games of a 'winnable' run of games.
For those who saw the end, what was Gerrard's body language about? What happened?
You could read that either way. It could mean he’s reached the end of his tether with these players and sort it out, or he’s just completely dumbfounded
One thing we do know is that he is a winner and will not like that
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They can all fuck off. I am sick of the sight of them. Bottlers.
We are going fucking nowhere because we recruit too many players who don't have any bottle for a scrap. 11 years and counting since Aston Villa, one of England's most successful clubs, managed a top half finish.
Not good enough.
Crazy when you read it like that.
Should have finished top half last season.
😢
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Ugh, a result that will go a big way to keeping them up and usurping us before too long with their ill-gotten gains.
Also, likely the last time for a while we'll be the favourites/have a decent chance of winning in that fucking stadium.
Not done it against 11-men there apparently since 1-2 David Platt with what proved to be the winner, 1989....for the love o'Jaysus...
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Absolutely fucking dismal. I knew we wouldn’t score once they did and even when by some miracle we did it’s ruled out by this fucking cretinous offside rule of his toenail being off.
Martinez not troubled, Cash poor, Digne worse, I thought Nicky Shorey was back in the team for a moment. Chambers and Mings not troubled much, nothing bad and nothing good really. Luiz fucking wank in the extreme, McGinn ok first half and poor second, after a great midweek display Ramsey looked as self indulgent and in-effective as Grealish did in some of his early games. Buendia back to his early season form, Watkins largely a waste of time, Coutinho classy when he saw the ball but it wasn’t often enough. Chucky too late to say much, but Ings and Bailey looking nothing like the impact subs you’d hope they’d be. Bailey quite worrying poor really although he has had the injury.
Fucking terrible all round.
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That was almost excruciatingly poor. The referee made some 'interesting' decisions though. All their rotational fouling to stop us breaking in the second half drew no bookings but every time a Villa player mistimed a tackle the yellow card came out.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
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Why did we only have 4 defenders and the goalkeeper playing,he should have played the attackers and midfielders as well
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Seen worse.
We were the better team. The neutrals in the pub I watched in all agree.
It’s the usual bias of being a fan that highlights the inadequacies. Some real, some not.
The biggest inadequacy I see is the the lack of a solid midfielder. Doesn’t have to even be the mythical “DM”. Just disciplined and tough.
And passing accuracy.
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Gerrard is entitled to a pre season. But I've still not seen anything to think it will work.
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The attitude of the players at the end was appalling, giving away cheap free kicks when out of possession just played in to Newcastle's hands.
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Awful. Just awful.
I can handle playing well and losing to top teams. But we are poor against bottom half teams.
Samson and Ings must look at the last few games and think “ what have I got to do to get a game “
Change needed next game. Watkins Luiz and McGinn need to be dropped.
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We're regressing by the game which is a worry.
I didn't fancy us up there but thought we'd put on a better performance.
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Dreadful. Excuse wise...it's difficult if Beundia, Coutinho and Bailey for differing reasons, and being our creative players, were all doubtful for the game. It showed.
Watkins was dire, McGinn and Luis particular poor. Digne looked like the only one who might make something happen.
I hate VAR decisions like that. A fucking studs worth of difference. I much prefer the days of attackers having benefit of doubt and I'd much rather judge it on bodies rather than limbs. That said, the rules are the rules and Ollie is fucking terrible at staying safely onside. Ings might have been dreadful when he came on, but I think he stays half a yard safely on for that and gets a tap in.
Playing Chambers was the wrong call I feel. Woods didn't do a great deal but had an awkward presence. Hause deals with it better. Sanson deserves to play too and I'd be inclined to perhaps get Ash in the next came just to give a bit of nous. For me though, something clearly isn't working at the moment. I hope Gerrard is decisive and addresses it. He got it wrong today.
It was also a classic example of a side with nothing to play for, up against a side looking over their shoulder with a rocket up them. We're coming to that stage where playing anyone fight top 6 or bottom 5 is gonna be a bit of a nightmare. Because that initial spark and workrate, the intensity when Gerrard first came in, is fading out, because we've got nothing to play for but 10th place. So I hope he's making it abundantly clear some players are playing for their places going forward.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
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Got my second dose of COVID presently and to be honest that's more enjoyable than that pile of turd. I'm starting to think no one can get a tune out of half of this squad. Congratulations to all the team for spending the last ten minutes giving away pointless free kicks to make sure the clock ran down with no pressure on the Geordie's. Off back to bed.
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The attitude of the players at the end was appalling, giving away cheap free kicks when out of possession just played in to Newcastle's hands.
And the body language of a manager slumped into his seat doesn’t seem like great attitude either
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I'd agree about Luiz.
He looks completely disinterested.
Him and McGinn wouldn't start at the weekend for me.
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The way Gerrard was doing his coat up several minutes before the final whistle when really needed to be standing up and getting players going looked like he resigned to defeat. Uninspiring by him and i remain concerned.
I was very weary of him and remain so.
I don't see him doing anything other than talking a good game and I've been sceptical of his chat anyway all very controlled.
He doesn't really have much idea about how to be am attacking threat other than this get the full backs forward like my beloved Liverpool
Team seems to be losing discipline and he never lead from the touchline
The last 10 minutes(including the added time)in particular was nothing
Watford next is at least something to hope for better as against most teams that sort of performance and predictable play in the rigid system will only see us lose
Shocking how little goal threat we have. Shocking.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
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Didn't expect anything different when I saw the starting lineup. Abysmal performance.
Why persist with attacking wingbacks when the one on the right gets a nosebleed every time he receives the ball in space in the attacking third. We've spunked a fortune building this squad, and we've just been beaten (easily) by a team that has a midfield containing Jonjo Shelvey and Joelinton. Let that sink in for a moment.
We're halfway through this run of four supposedly winnable games and a potential 12pt haul. Out of 6 points so far, we have ONE. Watford at VP up next and can't see things changing any time soon.
Players need to know that if they don't perform, they're out. Playing that same team today sent the wrong message, both to the players that shouldn't have been playing after Wednesday, and also the ones trying their hardest on the training ground to break into the side.
Sanson could potentially be our best midfielder and should be starting imo, yet he constantly brings on Chuck who has so far flattered to deceive in all but one appearance.
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New application of VAR 2021/22 season:
Perhaps the most significant change, and one which will delight forwards, is thicker lines are now being used when measuring offsides, increasing from 1mm to around 5cm, similar to the lines shown on TV broadcasts.
This will give the benefit of the doubt to attacking players once more.
The change is intended to eliminate the most fractional offside calls where toenails, noses or armpits were offside.
That was just lies.
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The PL moves at a blistering pace and has no time for sentiment.
Today was all on SG from the starting line up through to waiting way too long to make a change.
Then to slump back in his chair.
Get rid and start again.
Behave. We know you don't like him.
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Martinez 4 fucked lining the wall up
Cash 5 tried hard but useless in final 3rd
Mings 5
Chambers 3 stupid lunge so slow with the ball
Dungeon 5 is he an improvement on Target?
Luiz 1 gets 1 for attendance only
McGin 2 only slightly better than Luiz but abysmal
Ramsey 5
Coutinho 6 tidy
Buendia 5
Watkins 3 piss poor
What a stinker
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I genuinely would like to see Archer start given the performances we've seen recently. Should call him back. Sanson is a must. Hopefully, next game will see an improvement.
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If this shower finish higher than 14th I’d be stunned.
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With the amount of possession we had in the second half we’ve got to be getting something out of that game, especially against such very limited opposition.
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With the amount of possession we had in the second half we’ve got to be getting something out of that game, especially against such very limited opposition.
they didn’t seem that bothered.
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I genuinely would like to see Archer start given the performances we've seen recently. Should call him back. Sanson is a must. Hopefully, next game will see an improvement.
Naaaa leave him at Preston, we'd destroy him with the way we play.
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Sadly predictable. Disappointing against a sh-t team and home fans.
1 shot on target all game (3 in total from both teams! Awful).
So this is what an "upgrade" looks like...1 win in 7.
Listened to commentary 1st half. Poor from Villa and poor commentary. Was aware of improvement 2nd half without listening to the game, but not good enough. I've seen a still of the disallowed goal...a toenail! It certainly was not clear and obvious. Ollie and Villa have been done again. Var has ruined football. Surely we've got to beat Watford.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
Indeed. Unless, of course, they play like a girl.
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Their first choice left back was ineligible.
Their second choice left back went off injured.
Their right back went off injured.
Their captain and first choice centre back was missing.
They play a carthorse striker as a central midfielder.
And still we created virtually nothing despite having Coutinho and Buendia in the team. That means the system, shape, and possibly also attitude were all wrong today. And generally, we must be rock bottom of the PL for completed passes inside the opposition penalty area surely.
I would bring Sanson in for McGinn. His blood and thunder is all well and good but he's too undisciplined to play in a three that doesn't include a DM.
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I am disappointed in the fact that Gerrard appears to be like so many of his predecessors in that he didn't have them up for it. The game these days is all about intensity and work rate and both were lacking. Newcastle were absolutely dire from what i saw yet with all the talent in the Villa side we didn't leave a mark on them. Shameful performance.
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I genuinely would like to see Archer start given the performances we've seen recently. Should call him back. Sanson is a must. Hopefully, next game will see an improvement.
So would I, but I don't think there's a recall option.
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I'm so frustrated by this team. Why are we so bloody soft? We might be managed by a serial winner but I wouldn't back us to draw two games in a row.
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Fine margins. I’d have backed us to win that if the goal had stood. All the breaks and injuries suited Newcastle and we lost shape and discipline in the last 15 minutes.
That elusive DCM is killing us. So poor through the middle and Luiz is beyond slow on the ball and feeble out of possession.
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Martinez 4 fucked lining the wall up
Cash 5 tried hard but useless in final 3rd
Mings 5
Chambers 3 stupid lunge so slow with the ball
Dungeon 5 is he an improvement on Target?
Luiz 1 gets 1 for attendance only
McGin 2 only slightly better than Luiz but abysmal
Ramsey 5
Coutinho 6 tidy
Buendia 5
Watkins 3 piss poor
What a stinker
Very generous.
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Offside is not subject to clear and obvious
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"We will give the players a no excuse environment"
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Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Digne
Sanson
McGinn
Ramsey
Buendia
Ings
Coutinho
That 11 has to be worth a go after that horror show.
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With the amount of possession we had in the second half we’ve got to be getting something out of that game, especially against such very limited opposition.
they didn’t seem that bothered.
I think that’s the trouble. It’s all very well wishing for Sanson, Ings and Hause in the team but the problem appeared to be a total lack of team cohesion and unity and not enough urgency and effort. The players individually when they try and are in the same page as each other are very good players for the most part. We all know the DCM is needed badly and in place of Luiz today it would have helped but that’s not going to solve all the issues we saw today.
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I'm so frustrated by this team. Why are we so bloody soft? We might be managed by a serial winner but I wouldn't back us to draw two games in a row.
We have been soft for years. Arguably since MON walked.
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Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Digne
Sanson
McGinn
Ramsey
Buendia
Ings
Coutinho
That 11 has to be worth a go after that horror show.
I'd agree except I can't possibly see what McGinn has done to earn another start.
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I guess we are where we are at the moment, ranging from useless to pretty good. Look at Spurs, absolutely shit for the most part of the season but 8th in the league. Wolves were shocking until they played us and sitting in 7th. It’s amazing that Man Utd have been as poor as they have been and so high up.
That’s was quite dreadful today but I expected it to be honest. My brother put money on us to win in his accumulater and I told him that’s that fucked then.
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New application of VAR 2021/22 season:
Perhaps the most significant change, and one which will delight forwards, is thicker lines are now being used when measuring offsides, increasing from 1mm to around 5cm, similar to the lines shown on TV broadcasts.
This will give the benefit of the doubt to attacking players once more.
The change is intended to eliminate the most fractional offside calls where toenails, noses or armpits were offside.
That was just lies.
Thanks for finding that. Saves me the trouble.
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The same attitude that was showing in Dean's last few weeks, except he took the wrap for it, expect Gerrard not to stand for the same,oh stop sending me video of players training laughing and giggling, not interested anymore
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I know the word shit gets thrown around in a hyperbolic way quite alot on forums but in this case its very apt.
We haven't forced there keeper into one single save all game.
It seems Gerrard has one system and one system only, all changes will be like for like to fit that one system.
They wont have an easier win all season, we couldn't have been more accomadating to them. Started slowly, gifted them a goal then proceeded to slow the game down at will which allowed them to get back into shape. Then when we shouldve been frantically at them in the last 15 minutes we gave away an insane of amount of stupid free kicks.
If Gerrard is to stick with this system, and boy does it look like he will, then you cant have a lone striker that cant hold the ball up. Literally everything came straight back at us as soon as we passed/hoofed it up to Watkins and due to this we couldnt get Coutinho/Ramsey/Buendia far enough up the putch to hurt them. Davis would be a much better fit to this system than Watkins or Ings.
As I have said many times to many people, Watkins isn't a Premier League striker.Also, we need Marvellous until we can get something better.
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Got my second dose of COVID presently and to be honest that's more enjoyable than that pile of turd. I'm starting to think no one can get a tune out of half of this squad. Congratulations to all the team for spending the last ten minutes giving away pointless free kicks to make sure the clock ran down with no pressure on the Geordie's. Off back to bed.
Take easy and all the best for recovery! Up the Villa
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That was a massively disjointed performance. The fact that Sanson can't get into this team must mean that there is a problem with him. At the moment, I see absolutely nothing from the not to super John McGinn or Douglas Luiz to keep them in the starting eleven, other than we simply have no-one to replace them. Newcastle did their best to disrupt the flow of the game, their keeper going down so Eddie Howe could organise his midfield is top class Martinez style shithousery. We give the ball away far too much with no pressure on us at all. Our forwards are not firing at all. Cash couldn't cross his arms, never mind the ball. Watkins, what the hell has happened to you son? Fucking useless today. Ramsey was the only midfielder who gets a pass from me today. Bit unlucky with the free kick, bit unlucky with the disallowed goal, but that happens. We need a sneaky peak over the shoulder, because if we think we are a good side, we have another thing coming. Really, really frustrating.
PhilVill, get well soon matey.
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Well well bloody well
Pathetic, shit, absolute unprofessional garbage giving away all those free kicks at the end
totally brainless
My motm fucking no one
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One bloody shot on target against that shower. Embarrassing.
In the last 5 days, Newcastle beat Everton easily, Everton batter Leeds, who were the better side against us......Jesus how bad are we?
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Fuming
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well i see the girls won , so well done them !!!
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The attitude of the players at the end was appalling, giving away cheap free kicks when out of possession just played in to Newcastle's hands.
And the body language of a manager slumped into his seat doesn’t seem like great attitude either
That's poor if true!
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well i see the girls won , so well done them !!!
Luiz will be happy
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The attitude of the players at the end was appalling, giving away cheap free kicks when out of possession just played in to Newcastle's hands.
And the body language of a manager slumped into his seat doesn’t seem like great attitude either
That's poor if true!
Nice of the 4 of them to clap the fans at the end as well. Just the 15 hour day
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Another thing..... Why the fuck is Luiz on set pieces? He has never scored a free kick and im struggling to remember him assisting from a corner. Who the fuck has come up with that decision, especially when we have Coutinho here.
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Not to be dramatic, but the club needs to have a bit of an inquest into this season. It has been a massive let down and the most unprofessional from us since the new owners arrived.
Pre-season was a mess, the team were a complete shambles on the opening day, we have been unprofessional on the pitch. Needs to never be allowed happen again. Every single point has to be fought, every single minute you have to be switched on.
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One bloody shot on target against that shower. Embarrassing.
In the last 5 days, Newcastle beat Everton easily, Everton batter Leeds, who were the better side against us......Jesus how bad are we?
But we beat Everton so that doesn't work does it?
Nobody in the mid table mire is consistent.
That's why we're in it.
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That was a massively disjointed performance. The fact that Sanson can't get into this team must mean that there is a problem with him. At the moment, I see absolutely nothing from the not to super John McGinn or Douglas Luiz to keep them in the starting eleven, other than we simply have no-one to replace them. Newcastle did their best to disrupt the flow of the game, their keeper going down so Eddie Howe could organise his midfield is top class Martinez style shithousery. We give the ball away far too much with no pressure on us at all. Our forwards are not firing at all. Cash couldn't cross his arms, never mind the ball. Watkins, what the hell has happened to you son? Fucking useless today. Ramsey was the only midfielder who gets a pass from me today. Bit unlucky with the free kick, bit unlucky with the disallowed goal, but that happens. We need a sneaky peak over the shoulder, because if we think we are a good side, we have another thing coming. Really, really frustrating.
PhilVill, get well soon matey.
On your point about Sanson maybe the problem is with us? How many times di players do well before joining or after leaving us?
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Another thing..... Why the fuck is Luiz on set pieces? He has never scored a free kick and im struggling to remember him assisting from a corner. Who the fuck has come up with that decision, especially when we have Coutinho here.
Digne was taking most of the corners but yes odd Doug took that FK in second half. Perhaps Coutinho thought it was too far out.
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Like the Brentford game, we were too easy to stop & there was no option B. We've been naive and weak for years. Plucky losers against the big teams & out fought by the shite teams.
Our midfield today was nullified by the mighty Willock, Joelinton & Shelby.
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Fooking shite today.
Cash - useless
McGinn - terrible
Watkins - get rid
Luiz - offers nothing
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
Indeed. Unless, of course, they play like a girl.
So getting some sexism in there as well. Nice one, real classy.
Have a fucking word with yourself
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New application of VAR 2021/22 season:
Perhaps the most significant change, and one which will delight forwards, is thicker lines are now being used when measuring offsides, increasing from 1mm to around 5cm, similar to the lines shown on TV broadcasts.
This will give the benefit of the doubt to attacking players once more.
The change is intended to eliminate the most fractional offside calls where toenails, noses or armpits were offside.
That was just lies.
Sounds great. When does it start?
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But we beat Everton so that doesn't work does it?
Nobody in the mid table mire is consistent.
That's why we're in it.
Exactly, Spurs are 8th with an experienced 'top' manager and have just lost 2 on the bounce at home to Soton and Wolves. No guarantee that any team from 5th to 17th will beat the other.
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You cannot excuse that first half. Nobody played well, but it was just so pedestrian and passive. We must have checked back in to pass back to the centre half time and time again.
Watkins was being completely bullied by a total donkey like Burn, who in fairness was absolutely desperate to wear his shirt.
It really was up there with some of the worst we've seen in a first half this season.
Second half we were improved box to box. When we did move the ball quickly, we found acres of space and looked effective up to the box.
The delivery wasn't good enough, the forwards offered no credible threat and was all a bit huff a puff. We didn't create anywhere near enough.
Watkins, McGinn and Luiz were the worst of the bunch and they have been for weeks. I don't want to see any of them anywhere near the side in the next few games and all 3 should be replaced in the summer if our aspirations exceed inconsistent midtable.
Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
The opposition today were dreadful, offered nothing and we've been beaten without complaint ad we did fuck all ourselves.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12541357/newcastle-1-0-aston-villa-premier-league-highlights
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Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
I'd say it was definitely a factor, Gerrard referenced the 1st half distance stats in his post-match interview on Weds. My uncle watched the Leeds game yesterday and said they no zip at all.
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Gerrard was doing his fucking nut on the side going back and forth in his technical area. The idea that he set a bad example is fucking shit.
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Gerrard was doing his fucking nut on the side going back and forth in his technical area. The idea that he set a bad example is fucking shit.
Did you see his Jacob Rees Mogg impersonation?
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No as I was watching the game, but everytime the ball went down that side he caught the eye as he was striding about.
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Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
I'd say it was definitely a factor, Gerrard referenced the 1st half distance stats in his post-match interview on Weds. My uncle watched the Leeds game yesterday and said they no zip at all.
If that is the case and gerrard though that surely he should have made a few changes. We ain’t exactly been brilliant.
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You cannot excuse that first half. Nobody played well, but it was just so pedestrian and passive. We must have checked back in to pass back to the centre half time and time again.
Watkins was being completely bullied by a total donkey like Burn, who in fairness was absolutely desperate to wear his shirt.
It really was up there with some of the worst we've seen in a first half this season.
Second half we were improved box to box. When we did move the ball quickly, we found acres of space and looked effective up to the box.
The delivery wasn't good enough, the forwards offered no credible threat and was all a bit huff a puff. We didn't create anywhere near enough.
Watkins, McGinn and Luiz were the worst of the bunch and they have been for weeks. I don't want to see any of them anywhere near the side in the next few games and all 3 should be replaced in the summer if our aspirations exceed inconsistent midtable.
Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
The opposition today were dreadful, offered nothing and we've been beaten without complaint ad we did fuck all ourselves.
Was just about to post but you have said exactly what I thought but with more eloquence. So typical of us. Just when you think we’re finally moving forward we very quickly appear to be moving backwards all over the pitch at an alarming rate.
Even Martinez doesn’t look like the presence he was 12 months ago.
My missus is from Wton (yeah I know) and isn’t a an out and out Dingle fan but her wry smile every weekend is beginning to grate.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
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Not to be dramatic, but the club needs to have a bit of an inquest into this season. It has been a massive let down and the most unprofessional from us since the new owners arrived.
I’m sure the club have inquests after every season.
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1. half they had tempo and fight, we hadnt, lost tackles and second ball and lost the game there. 2. half after watkins of course offside goal they destroyed the game to win it and hadnt much problem with that. Lack of tempo was the same against leeds. Cuothino is at what he does a class above any player at Villa, newcastle or leeds but the brazilian tempo and ballcontrol that may suit luiz and bunedia (and ings) isnt something most other of our players can match and shift our game in that direction, I think. I still have belief in Gerrard, the palyers he had brought in looks good. I dont think Mings , Cash and watkins are the future; our playing together and attacks breaks down more often than not when they get the ball, especially cash; head down and a stragiht ahead thundershot that get blocked or end up in the stand (why dont they coach him ?). I think Leeds did look pretty good, Newcastle didnt. I hope for a bit above midtable this season now, shift some players in the summer and go for top 4 next season - we have the potential (some already) :)
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No as I was watching the game, but everytime the ball went down that side he caught the eye as he was striding about.
He had a bit of a lie down at the end.
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Fooking shite today.
Cash - useless
McGinn - terrible
Watkins - get rid
Luiz - offers nothing
McGinn has been appalling for weeks now. The fact that we've spent about £300 million in the last three years and he's still an automatic starter when available is a poor reflection on the quality of players that we've brought in that time.
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You cannot excuse that first half. Nobody played well, but it was just so pedestrian and passive. We must have checked back in to pass back to the centre half time and time again.
Watkins was being completely bullied by a total donkey like Burn, who in fairness was absolutely desperate to wear his shirt.
It really was up there with some of the worst we've seen in a first half this season.
Second half we were improved box to box. When we did move the ball quickly, we found acres of space and looked effective up to the box.
The delivery wasn't good enough, the forwards offered no credible threat and was all a bit huff a puff. We didn't create anywhere near enough.
Watkins, McGinn and Luiz were the worst of the bunch and they have been for weeks. I don't want to see any of them anywhere near the side in the next few games and all 3 should be replaced in the summer if our aspirations exceed inconsistent midtable.
Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
The opposition today were dreadful, offered nothing and we've been beaten without complaint ad we did fuck all ourselves.
In defence of Luiz, hasn't he basically been playing without a rest since the start of last season?
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You cannot excuse that first half. Nobody played well, but it was just so pedestrian and passive. We must have checked back in to pass back to the centre half time and time again.
Watkins was being completely bullied by a total donkey like Burn, who in fairness was absolutely desperate to wear his shirt.
It really was up there with some of the worst we've seen in a first half this season.
Second half we were improved box to box. When we did move the ball quickly, we found acres of space and looked effective up to the box.
The delivery wasn't good enough, the forwards offered no credible threat and was all a bit huff a puff. We didn't create anywhere near enough.
Watkins, McGinn and Luiz were the worst of the bunch and they have been for weeks. I don't want to see any of them anywhere near the side in the next few games and all 3 should be replaced in the summer if our aspirations exceed inconsistent midtable.
Given how poor Leeds were against Everton and how tepid we were, I wonder if the basketball game on Wednesday sapped energy. The squad is there.
The opposition today were dreadful, offered nothing and we've been beaten without complaint ad we did fuck all ourselves.
In defence of Luiz, hasn't he basically been playing without a rest since the start of last season?
Then give him a rest
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The passiveness in the first half was inexcusable. Barely able to string two passes together, losing 50/50s. Different players, same DNA we’ve had for years.
Depressingly predictable performance.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
....and as he said - what has her sexuality got to do with anything?
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
I know.
So why is it a reason for him playing badly?
I guess it’s laddish “nudge nudge” stuff.
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The passiveness in the first half was inexcusable. Barely able to string two passes together, losing 50/50s. Different players, same DNA we’ve had for years.
Depressingly predictable performance.
Yes. Managers, owners, players l. It makes no difference. Villa just be Villa.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
....and as he said - what has her sexuality got to do with anything?
Men like girls who also are into girls too is what he's suggesting.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
Again, what the hell does that have to do with the game in any way at all. Childish nonsense
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Holding midfielder please.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
Again, what the hell does that have to do with the game in any way at all. Childish nonsense
I dont know, ask him. I presume the suggestion is that he's got his sex life on the brain.
I'd like the subs bench to be in contact with his arse for the foreseeable.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
....and as he said - what has her sexuality got to do with anything?
Men like girls who also are into girls too is what he's suggesting.
It sounds to me like he was after a laugh pointing out someone is gay. Bantz.
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I think Gerrard has seen enough (as we all have) to see where our problems lie.
Let's see how he addresses things in the summer now.
A high quality defensive mid is the priority (still) and for me Mings should be replaced.
Ollie's inability to hold the ball up isa real worry in this system----this was the main problem with today's performance and the reason why the man of the match was a 6ft 5in stopper on his debut!
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If Luiz's girlfriend was gay, then that revelation that your relationship was over might be off putting. As she's bi and as he wants fucking hoofing in the arse for his repeated shambolic performances, I don't think it's here or there.
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It sounds to me like he was after a laugh pointing out someone is gay. Bantz.
From what I've seen of his posts on here that's not really eamonn's style.
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Time and again Cash was the spare man, half a dozen times he had clear opportunity to create something and was utterly wasteful. Simply not good enough.
Olly looks like a different player to last season, no zip and a dreadful first touch.
As for Luiz, no goals, no assists, can’t tackle. What shit Brazil team it must be if he gets anywhere near it.
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Cash checking back onto his left foot in the first half was infuriating. Delivery today from open play and dead ball was dire.
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Did anybody else not celebrate our goal because you kind of knew what was coming?
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Cash checking back onto his left foot in the first half was infuriating. Delivery today from open play and dead ball was dire.
I think it might be worth giving the set piece advisor a shirt and getting him to take the free kicks himself! He couldn't do any worse!
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VAR rule changes just goes to show you can be a toenail the wrong side of the thick line just as you could of the thin line. I've said it before - if it takes longer than 30 seconds to make a decision surely too close to call. GOAL.
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Did anybody else not celebrate our goal because you kind of knew what was coming?
Me
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Did anybody else not celebrate our goal because you kind of knew what was coming?
He did look a mile off in real time to be fair. I had convinced myself he was on during the check though.
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Olly should definitely trim his toenails before a game - maybe improve his balance as well as he tendency to wander offside.
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For me Luiz comes out of the team and Sanson goes in. If Sanson turns out to be crap and Luiz trains well he gets another chance but I’d take him out for a good 6 weeks plus and give Sanson a go. He’s been fucking shit lately and apart from a purple patch after the Covid lockdown he’s never been that good anyway.
And if as some have suggested his mind is wandering for a CL team he ain’t got a fucking prayer of holding a place down at that level.
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From the crow's nest view, it was difficult to see what the pattern or shape was or indeed if there was one today.
Newcastle were probably just a bit less poor than us but we were just poor all over.
Passing was poor and nearly all the free kicks were lousy and we had enough of them today.
Not sure what has happened to a few of the players but the 2 week break doesn't seem to have done us any good at all.
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If Arsenal & Man Utd want to give us £70m for Luis & McGinn I’d bite their hands off. But I can’t see it somehow.
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Not to be dramatic, but the club needs to have a bit of an inquest into this season. It has been a massive let down and the most unprofessional from us since the new owners arrived.
Pre-season was a mess, the team were a complete shambles on the opening day, we have been unprofessional on the pitch. Needs to never be allowed happen again. Every single point has to be fought, every single minute you have to be switched on.
This 100%
We get all this bollocks about year on year progression and we’re going backwards. We get the CEO fucking crush in as Manager and have to listen to all the bollocks that go with it.
This squad is way better than that. Being a manager in the PL is tough - and this one way we have of plying won’t cut it if we want to break into the top 8. If the squad needs rebuilding in the summer than that means we haven’t bought the right players - cos we have bought loads. And pundits stroke there chin and say how good the signings are.
Sg body language awful at the end. He has to find a way to get the best out of a squad that has cost 100ms to assemble - if he can’t then he’s not up to the job.
We have the best owners in the league and I sure as fuck don’t want to waste them.
If I was NSWE I would be fucking fuming with this season
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I only got to see the first half (thankfully by the sounds of it).
Apart from Ramsey our midfield is gash as it has been for years now.
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It was a massive pile of turd from start to finish, but I'm disinclined to put all the blame on the players. There's something about our shape that just isn't right, and I think the players know it. The midfield three are all in a line, piss easy to mark, and leave gaping holes down the channels. We're not maintaining a compact shape like we did in Gerrard's first few games.
To get us moving forward, one of Coutinho and Buendia should have been dropping back occasionally, but it looks like they've been told to stay high up the pitch.
If your centre half is forced to boot it long every time he gets the ball, then something clearly needs changing, but we continued with the tactic for most of the match.
That's not excusing the players completely though. They were slow and only showed any urgency for a five minute period in the second half. Half of them struggled to control the ball too (Cash in particular was driving me mental).
Just wank.
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If this thread is just about todays game on its own, then im not sure there is any criticism of Mings to be had, he did what he had to do against their really poor forward line (St Maxim apart), relatively comfortably.
Chambers was a bit wobbly, it was a rash challenge which led to their free kick, but it was really poor midfield play again that left him exposed.
I love Cash, but going forwards he was awful. Digne was ok.
The midfield was all wrong, Ramsey tried almost too hard at times and didn’t release the ball quick enough after one of his runs, but at least he tried.
What summed up McGinns performance was the free kick passed straight to them, he was rightly hooked soon after. Luiz really poor as well. The problem is I’m not sure we have enough strength in depth to take both out of the side. But at least one has to come out and for me it would just, just, be Luiz, but close call. As someone else has said Sanson not even getting on since being taken off vrs man utd, does beg the question of whether he’s trusted, but surely he has to come in for Watford now.
Watkins had a terrible game. Like all forwards he needs a goal and you could see his shoulders lift after he scored and deflate again after it was chalked off. More worryingly for me than all of his bad first touches, is his body language, there were numerous times in the first half where he was flinging his arms in the air moaning at a teammate, think him and Ramsey were having words at one point early on. He needs to come out of the team for next week.
Talking of body language, i have not much of a problem with Gerrard slumped looking very pissed off with a few minutes to go, the players should know he’s completely pissed off with them.
Time to shake the team up for Watford.
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I dont think it's shape. The last 6 goals we have conceded have been abysmal and nigh on all individual errors.
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Very hard to find any positives after today's display, he was rightly slated for his performance last Wednesday, but thought Mings was our best player today, gave a captain's performance, fully committed and particularly remember 2 superb tackles in the 2nd half, and did not put a foot wrong. I now expect this from him for the rest of the season, as he's gotta a lot of making up to do.
Would not be too critical of Chambers, yes stupid free kick to give away, but this was his first start in the Premier League for 6 months and thought he was ok. Sadly it was another depressing 90 mins watching Villa.
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Look at the league table, it just shows unless you are going to win four or five on the spin, maybe a draw here and there otherwise you will be in the bottom 14 places. We are where we are, a mid table team which has good days and some very bad days.
We are probably a top six centre forward and deep sitting centre midfielder away from some solid consistency to put wins together regularly.
I thought Ollie was this player but not so sure anymore.
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VAR rule changes just goes to show you can be a toenail the wrong side of the thick line just as you could of the thin line. I've said it before - if it takes longer than 30 seconds to make a decision surely too close to call. GOAL.
Absolutely
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I think it's safe to say the Gerrard honeymoon is over.
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I’d imagine so - he got married in 2007.
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Fooking shite today.
Cash - useless
McGinn - terrible
Watkins - get rid
Luiz - offers nothing
just said this .sell them all while we can get money .
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Just heard this on a podcast:
When we lose it seems that it’s of our own doing, not because we’ve been beaten by a team outclassing us.
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Thought Chambers was very average at the back aswell, would've played him as DM today tbh as Doug seems to have mentally checked out of the club.
He's in love with a bisexual Villan. Understandable if his head is all over the place.
What the fuck has someone’s sexuality to do about anything?
He's on about Luiz's girlfriend who is very attractive and also bisexual.
Again, what the hell does that have to do with the game in any way at all. Childish nonsense
I dont know, ask him. I presume the suggestion is that he's got his sex life on the brain.
I'd like the subs bench to be in contact with his arse for the foreseeable.
Sorry for the long quote.
That clears it up with the “sex on the brain” .
People have to be more obvious with their posts! I’m not as sharp as I used to be.
And yes. Luiz’s arse needs the bench.
Apologies to all for distracting from the post match comments.
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We lost possession 136 times today. Shocking.
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I dont think it's shape. The last 6 goals we have conceded have been abysmal and nigh on all individual errors.
I think opponents are getting at our backline far too easily. Newcastle are shit but still managed to repeatedly get their midfielders running beyond ours, we're regularly seeing Luiz and McGinn turned and running back towards their own goal. I think they genuinely don't know who has responsibility for tracking which runner.
That's what causes the defenders to make individual errors, in my view. They're having to commit early before we can get more bodies behind the ball. Don't get me wrong, we're not suicidally wide open, but Daniel James tore us a new one the other night, because he was picking the ball up unopposed in the channel between McGinn and Luiz and running straight at Konsa and Mings, who looked visibly harassed all night.
Part of it is because, when you look at how far Cash and Digne go up the pitch, we're essentially playing with wing backs, but not the three central defenders teams usually pick with that formation (not advocating three CBs btw, that's shit).
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Did anybody else not celebrate our goal because you kind of knew what was coming?
Yep, me
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We lost possession 136 times today. Shocking.
That is some going.
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Apart from this tactic, that tactic, the players don't fit the system we play, the minimum you ask from your players is they put in some effort, especially against opposition like Newcastle who were absolutely shit themselves, they could have won today without the skill required
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VAR rule changes just goes to show you can be a toenail the wrong side of the thick line just as you could of the thin line. I've said it before - if it takes longer than 30 seconds to make a decision surely too close to call. GOAL.
this
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Did anybody else not celebrate our goal because you kind of knew what was coming?
Yep, me
I thought it was offside but still jumped up, but most definitely a subdued jump of glory. It was very much like how we played, a lame effort and no real conviction.
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Not read all posts until tomorrow but I'm afraid time is up for the undropables
Mcginn
Luiz
Watkins
If not then the beady eye of blame will turn directly towards Gerrard
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Fooking shite today.
Cash - useless
McGinn - terrible
Watkins - get rid
Luiz - offers nothing
just said this .sell them all while we can get money .
Thank f**k you’re not in charge.
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Not read all posts until tomorrow but I'm afraid time is up for the undropables
Mcginn
Luiz
Watkins
If not then the beady eye of blame will turn directly towards Gerrard
What? That’s ridiculous, I think SG needs more than a January transfer window and 3 months in charge before “the beady eye of blame” come on ffs
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
Honest question who starts for Luiz? Sansom for McGinn? Ings I guess for Ollie?
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
Honest question who starts for Luiz? Sansom for McGinn? Ings I guess for Ollie?
Tim. I’m not going to attempt to spell his surname without some practice.
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I think we are a bit short of numbers to make wholesale changes. Next week is also one of those games where we really need to win to build some momentum and hush any chat about dropping down the table any more than we have/will do. I think we have too many forward thinking/attacking players and not enough grafters in the squad. The centre of our midfield is a huge problem and I can only really see Sanson coming in. Chucky isn't ready, Iroegbunam perhaps deserves a chance? Luiz and SJM were absolutely dire today though.
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Not read all posts until tomorrow but I'm afraid time is up for the undropables
Mcginn
Luiz
Watkins
If not then the beady eye of blame will turn directly towards Gerrard
What? That’s ridiculous, I think SG needs more than a January transfer window and 3 months in charge before “the beady eye of blame” come on ffs
Todays modern soccer fan has the patience of a nat! Gerrard needs time to fix the very gaping problems he inherited. I’m not saying he will - but the very least he deserves is the opportunity now he’s been appointed. It takes more than 13 games that’s for sure.
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That was a truly dreadful display and, for me, possibly the worst performance because Newcastle are an awful team. Watkins should have been dropped two games ago and surely must be dropped now. His body language says it all. As for the rest, just shocking, none of them come away with any pluses in my view. And what an earth is the set piece coach (coaches) doing?? Definitely get rid
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What was worrying (apart from being crap ),was that comparing the two teams before kick off, how many of their players would you have had in our side?
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
Honest question who starts for Luiz? Sansom for McGinn? Ings I guess for Ollie?
Tim. I’m not going to attempt to spell his surname without some practice.
Lad who was on the bench? Ok well I know nothing about him so…..
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What was worrying (apart from being crap ),was that comparing the two teams before kick off, how many of their players would you have had in our side?
Fair point
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Crap selection. Crap performance. Crap game management. I hope this no excuses culture extends to the manager and coaches.
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Absolutely awful, clueless, worst performance of the season.
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Matty Cash was absolutely useless in the final third.
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Absolutely awful, clueless, worst performance of the season.
Was you at the West Ham game at home?
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Matty Cash was absolutely useless in the final third.
Matty Cash, I can’t make my mind up on him, I’m not sure he’s as good as some think
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We miss Nakamba. I can't believe I'm typing that, but he is absolutely critical to this system and the way we play.
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We miss Nakamba. I can't believe I'm typing that, but he is absolutely critical to this system and the way we play.
I know, I’m with you on this !
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And finally. Just seen the Leicester/ West Ham game. Wet Spam equalise with a ball clearly off the players upper arm. Review, 10secs, maybe less. Goal stands. And that's whyI fucking detest VAR.
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Absolutely Disgraceful performance.
First 45 minutes was some of the worst Football I have seen us play. Sloppy, panicked,dreadful.
Digne looks bang average and the player to fight for his position was LOANED to today's opponents . F****g embarrassing. Only Villa could help out the richest Club in the world who on today's performance will overtake us in the league . I said at the time it would be a bad mistake .
Loaning out El Ghazi (who has scored many late goals for us) AND Trez was also a huge mistake.
Watkins and Ings look lost
Infuriating
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Just heard this on a podcast:
When we lose it seems that it’s of our own doing, not because we’ve been beaten by a team outclassing us.
Walsall would have beaten us today.
Shit team selection, atrocious first half performance, no subs at half time. The subs that came on were terrible. There wasn't a single positive. We could get dragged back into a relegation battle if we don't improve quickly.
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
Honest question who starts for Luiz? Sansom for McGinn? Ings I guess for Ollie?
Easy -And this should have been the starting lineup today. Also needs to keep a defensive leash on Cash, as he offers fuck all going forwards!
Konsa > Hause
Luiz > Chambers (in DM role)
McGinn > Sanson
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There will be a number of changes next week. I don’t see Watkins, McGinn and Luiz starting. They’ve all been shit or simply anonymous. Just not good enough. I was very disappointed all three started today
Honest question who starts for Luiz? Sansom for McGinn? Ings I guess for Ollie?
Easy -And this should have been the starting lineup today. Also needs to keep a defensive leash on Cash, as he offers fuck all going forwards!
Konsa > Hause
Luiz > Chambers (in DM role)
McGinn > Sanson
Well what's easy from way I'm able to read Gerrard is Chukwuemeka would be likely to be involved as he is every match and would be given an opportunity in midfield.
Ings in attacking role as well.
Young I would imagine is someone who and as uts vs Watford a lower placed team is also someone to come in
Bailey depending on his fitness another
So basically it's the usual but then options are limited
The over rash decisions of sending so many out on loan leaves us with few options.
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Same old post-match excuses - passive, poor passing and giving the ball away.
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Absolutely Disgraceful performance.
First 45 minutes was some of the worst Football I have seen us play. Sloppy, panicked,dreadful.
Digne looks bang average and the player to fight for his position was LOANED to today's opponents . F****g embarrassing. Only Villa could help out the richest Club in the world who on today's performance will overtake us in the league . I said at the time it would be a bad mistake .
Loaning out El Ghazi (who has scored many late goals for us) AND Trez was also a huge mistake.
Watkins and Ings look lost
Infuriating
Apart from Digne, none of the players you mention are actually good enough if we want to push beyond midtable.
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Absolutely Disgraceful performance.
First 45 minutes was some of the worst Football I have seen us play. Sloppy, panicked,dreadful.
Digne looks bang average and the player to fight for his position was LOANED to today's opponents . F****g embarrassing. Only Villa could help out the richest Club in the world who on today's performance will overtake us in the league . I said at the time it would be a bad mistake .
Loaning out El Ghazi (who has scored many late goals for us) AND Trez was also a huge mistake.
Watkins and Ings look lost
Infuriating
Targett wanted to go rather than stay and fight for his place. If you think El Ghazi and Trez would of made any difference today, you havent been watching what ive been watching over last few years. Did you watch Brentford away a few weeks back?
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Same old post-match excuses - passive, poor passing and giving the ball away.
It really is that simple.
I agree totally.
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Absolutely Disgraceful performance.
First 45 minutes was some of the worst Football I have seen us play. Sloppy, panicked,dreadful.
Digne looks bang average and the player to fight for his position was LOANED to today's opponents . F****g embarrassing. Only Villa could help out the richest Club in the world who on today's performance will overtake us in the league . I said at the time it would be a bad mistake .
Loaning out El Ghazi (who has scored many late goals for us) AND Trez was also a huge mistake.
Watkins and Ings look lost
Infuriating
I dont think loaning out El Ghazi and Trezeguet was a mistake . They would have made sod all difference to that pile of rubbish today.
There is no point in clamouring for Ings instead of Watkins as we are not creating chances for either and at least Ollie can create his own chances.
McGinn has turned into Shitty John McGinn and could be in danger of being dropped if anyone deserves dropping.
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I watched it in the pub and was grateful I could down numerous pints - feel for the suckers who paid good ££££s to go up there. That was 1/10 and can only day we have major problems - Smith or Gerrard as manager? Makes no difference! Didn't help I had the EDL Water Orton branch sitting behind me :-(
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We lost possession 136 times today. Shocking.
Well there you are!
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Well SG has now lost patience and promised changes so I expect McGuinn Luiz and Watkins to be dropped for Watford. And Chuck, Sanson and Ings to come in. Will not even be surprised if Hause comes in for Mings
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Well SG has now lost patience and promised changes so I expect McGuinn Luiz and Watkins to be dropped for Watford. And Chuck, Sanson and Ings to come in. Will not even be surprised if Hause comes in for Mings
Distribution from the back has been awful, though, so swapping Mings for Hause is like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titantic.
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Gerrard made a point about the running stats in his post match interview on Wednesday however he picks the same team when he needed to freshen things up. That decision was on him and coaching staff especially given the performances of Watkins, McGinn and Luiz on Wednesday, it sent a message that you can be crap and still get picked next game.
Watkins was horrendous today with the biggest fault being he cannot control the ball and hold it up. If he could it brings the midfield into play but he lost out on at least 5 or 6 occasions with some of them basic balls into his feet that just bounce off him straight to a Newcastle player ..and then the ball just comes straight back at us. The move leading to their free kick started with Watkins not holding it up and easily getting brushed aside.
Gerrard needs to send a message by dropping players who do not perform so lets see if he is true to his word after todays comments.
UTV
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The first half was as bad as I've seen for a while. The second half was a tad better but not much. VAR really has ruined football.
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It's a pity that Cameron Archer has gone out on loan because it would be an ideal opportunity to give him some Premier League game time.
We're not going to make Europe and we're not going down so it would've been a great time to play him.
Watkins has been truly awful for weeks with Ings not much better.
Incidentally can someone, anyone explain what Luiz brings to the party? Genuinely can't see it.
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That was rank. Can't be bothered to analyse it. Goodnight everyone
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Aston villa = one step forward one step back. For years we just seem to tread water.
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The worry is that so many of the players are having a dip in form, can’t get the basics right again and don’t see to know what system they are playing.
They have so gone backwards.
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It's a pity that Cameron Archer has gone out on loan because it would be an ideal opportunity to give him some Premier League game time.
We're not going to make Europe and we're not going down so it would've been a great time to play him.
Watkins has been truly awful for weeks with Ings not much better.
Incidentally can someone, anyone explain what Luiz brings to the party? Genuinely can't see it.
I actually think Davis would work well in our system. He may not get many goals himself, but he could hold it up and bring others into play. None of our other strikers can do this.
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For me, too many players, particularly up front have been loaned out. There's not much competition aside from Watkins and Ings, and God forbid we get an injury. JPB, Archer and Davis are doing well albeit in a lower League. Archer certainly should've stayed. Watkins is short of confidence - last season his chasing down and hold-up play was excellent and got him into the England.squad.
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Was talking to my old man after the Leeds game, and said I'd sell Watkins, Luiz and McGinn if the rumoured bids came in. He reckoned he'd keep Watkins but would sell Cash as well.
Seen a few posters in the thread list those four, and all four have linked with moves out. Can't help feeling that if we raked in £32m for Luiz (Spurs were linked), £40m for McGinn (Man Utd linked), £35m for Watkins (Arsenal linked) and £25m for Cash (Atletico linked) that we could buy players that make a more rounded team for the £133m it raked it. For sure we could get a better striker, centre back, right back and the elusive DM.
I also think that Davis would fit this system better than either Watkins or Ings, and Archer would be a better option to come on too.
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More an observation than an 'excuse' but I suspect that if we had played Newcastle first then Leeds we'd probably have got 4 points from the 2 games. However those are the breaks when it comes to the fixtures.
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Did I hear it correctly that the ref has been in charge for the last 3 Villa away matches? Surely something should be said about this? It cannot be right as things get spilled over from one match to the next. Also how come Newcastle had committed 21 free kicks yet had few yellow cards whereas a Villa player seemed to pick up a card after every foul.
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Was talking to my old man after the Leeds game, and said I'd sell Watkins, Luiz and McGinn if the rumoured bids came in. He reckoned he'd keep Watkins but would sell Cash as well.
Seen a few posters in the thread list those four, and all four have linked with moves out. Can't help feeling that if we raked in £32m for Luiz (Spurs were linked), £40m for McGinn (Man Utd linked), £35m for Watkins (Arsenal linked) and £25m for Cash (Atletico linked) that we could buy players that make a more rounded team for the £133m it raked it. For sure we could get a better striker, centre back, right back and the elusive DM.
I also think that Davis would fit this system better than either Watkins or Ings, and Archer would be a better option to come on too.
100% agree with your first sentence.
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We looked a tired side from the off and looking at how poorly Leeds played in their game (you would think they had just met each other) then the midweek game did for both sides. Changes should have been made and that's down to management. Watkins is not a natural centre forward he has no hold up ability which for me is a vital part of the position, he tries and runs hard but needs a spell on the bench. Ings may be no better but deserves a chance. Why did we re-sign Hause? and then not use him, instead put a player in who couldn't get a gig at Arsenal. As for Sanson, i can only conclude he is on the outer which is a pity because i thought he looked promising. It was the ideal game where we could and should have rested players.
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Did I hear it correctly that the ref has been in charge for the last 3 Villa away matches? Surely something should be said about this? It cannot be right as things get spilled over from one match to the next. Also how come Newcastle had committed 21 free kicks yet had few yellow cards whereas a Villa player seemed to pick up a card after every foul.
I thought the ref was abysmal.
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I thought one of Ollie’s strong points last season while he was in form was his ability to hold the ball up. An in form Ollie Watkins is a very good loan striker. His mojo has left him, this season he’s been a shadow of himself.
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I thought one of Ollie’s strong points last season while he was in form was his ability to hold the ball up. An in form Ollie Watkins is a very good loan striker. His mojo has left him, this season he’s been a shadow of himself.
Last season is last season, the opposition are marking him tighter, the coaches should be working on this in training.
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It's a pity that Cameron Archer has gone out on loan because it would be an ideal opportunity to give him some Premier League game time.
We're not going to make Europe and we're not going down so it would've been a great time to play him.
Watkins has been truly awful for weeks with Ings not much better.
Incidentally can someone, anyone explain what Luiz brings to the party? Genuinely can't see it.
I actually think Davis would work well in our system. He may not get many goals himself, but he could hold it up and bring others into play. None of our other strikers can do this.
I think you've got a point there.
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We looked a tired side from the off and looking at how poorly Leeds played in their game (you would think they had just met each other) then the midweek game did for both sides. Changes should have been made and that's down to management. Watkins is not a natural centre forward he has no hold up ability which for me is a vital part of the position, he tries and runs hard but needs a spell on the bench. Ings may be no better but deserves a chance. Why did we re-sign Hause? and then not use him, instead put a player in who couldn't get a gig at Arsenal. As for Sanson, i can only conclude he is on the outer which is a pity because i thought he looked promising. It was the ideal game where we could and should have rested players.
I would guess Chambers was preferred to Hause because he's right-footed.
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I don't. Davis has had plenty of opportunities over the years. Just not good enough at this level. Pleased to see him doing well in the Championship.
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Watkins, when he gets the ball, seems to be taking an age to make the right decision. He doesn't hold the ball up well enough either at the moment, or press like he did last season. He looks a shadow of himself. The VAR goal was marginal but happens far too often to Watkins. He was really poor today.
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I don't. Davis has had plenty of opportunities over the years. Just not good enough at this level. Pleased to see him doing well in the Championship.
Agreed. Keinan Davis has never been and will never be the answer.
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I understand a lot of the "burn it all down" posts after a performance like that. Hell, I'm on the verge of writing off Digne after four games. In reality though we are stuck with this squad for the remainder of this season and the majority of them will still be around next season too. Everyone talks about clear outs but in reality they never happen that quickly. Gerrard needs to make it work with who he's got. He has shown glimpses of it and talks a good game but I sincerely hope we don't drift to the end of this season. If we do I think that makes summer recruitment that bit harder.
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I do wonder if the mid season pre-season thing just pushed the players too hard. Instead of coming back fresh and ready, they are knackered. The stats were through the roof against Leeds according to Gerrard, which means picking the same players again made no sense.
I guess it may work for fitness in the longer term, and I hope it does, but we look tired and that's when the sloppiness happens.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
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Was talking to my old man after the Leeds game, and said I'd sell Watkins, Luiz and McGinn if the rumoured bids came in. He reckoned he'd keep Watkins but would sell Cash as well.
Seen a few posters in the thread list those four, and all four have linked with moves out. Can't help feeling that if we raked in £32m for Luiz (Spurs were linked), £40m for McGinn (Man Utd linked), £35m for Watkins (Arsenal linked) and £25m for Cash (Atletico linked) that we could buy players that make a more rounded team for the £133m it raked it. For sure we could get a better striker, centre back, right back and the elusive DM.
I also think that Davis would fit this system better than either Watkins or Ings, and Archer would be a better option to come on too.
We did that in the summer though - and hasn’t really worked out like that. I think maybe one or two of them move on - but I am not not convinced that we would be able to get any better
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It sounds to me like he was after a laugh pointing out someone is gay. Bantz.
From what I've seen of his posts on here that's not really eamonn's style.
Thanks BV (and Ads). No offence meant, more a lighthearted remark about how lucky Luiz could be viewed as being.
After wasting a couple of hours watching a shitty performance, I guess I was trying to raise a cheap smile.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
They must have had a handy week at training so, on the evidence of the full on performance today.
Gerrard, like Smith, talks very well post game. But he made the decision to keep the likes of Luiz, McGinn and Watkins in the team today after their woeful efforts v Leeds. He made the decision at half time not to change anything after possibly our worst 45 mins all season.
I just don't get why he would come out publicly after the game about how he would now enforce his personality on the group and that there would be changes for the next game. That's Sherwood-esque drivel. What's half time for? It's all well and good throwing his players under the proverbial bus but he has to get the best out of them for the next 15 games.
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This season the only thing that's been consistent is our ability to underwhelm. We look strong on paper but there's a few players playing themselves out of futures and quite honestly I wouldn't care if Gerrard ripped the whole thing up.
We've lost 12 league games, gone out of both cups early on and rarely keep a clean sheet. Several players have regressed this season for some reason.
This game just laid to bare for everyone to see, again.
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Garbage. I could see how it would end when I turned it off , not long before they scored.
Really dislike a fair chunk of our players. Almost devoid of technical ability, look lethargic, no leadership, bland ideas. The same shitty performers in the same positions, week in week out.
Midfield is hilariously bad
Fuck em
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Finally home. Great away day spoilt by 90mins of football. Difficult to accept how poor we were today against a terrible Newcastle team.
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Finally home. Great away day spoilt by 90mins of football. Difficult to accept how poor we were today against a terrible Newcastle team.
I know what people choose to do in their own time is up to them, but honestly, if Gerrard knew the efforts you and your crew went to following the team, especially on days like today, you'd think he'd make the club offer some gesture of goodwill. Or at least send down a couple of players/ex-legends if there's a Dorset Villa club that hosts an end of season shindig.
Seriously, major respect to you lot.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
We also had 2 friendly games on top of that. I don’t think the players were given a holiday.
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However badly we played, that goal was not offside. I fucking hate VAR and what it’s done to the game. Clubs with the money get the decisions.
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I want Gerrard to be true to his word and drop two or three, we cannot have a performance like that without repercussions. We do have options on the bench, I would drop Luiz, Cash has an excuse he is a typical full back who is being asked to play as a wing back, we saw how good he is at that. JM has been terrible for weeks now and looks totally frustrated. Watkins needs a rest.
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I dont know what it is with us up there but last seasons game was god awful aswell with us seeming lethargic and lacking any threat.
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We are desperate for a prime Gareth Barry & Petrov type of midfield. One to run around kicking people and the other actually making passes. :)
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
We also had 2 friendly games on top of that. I don’t think the players were given a holiday.
Maybe they really should have had three weeks off, which of course, is the purpose of the mid-season break!
We also don't have a calm head in the team, someone who can just slow things down a bit and help us to regather ourselves.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
We also had 2 friendly games on top of that. I don’t think the players were given a holiday.
Maybe they really should have had three weeks off, which of course, is the purpose of the mid-season break!
We also don't have a calm head in the team, someone who can just slow things down a bit and help us to regather ourselves.
Yep, there’s hardly any composure in this team.
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
We also had 2 friendly games on top of that. I don’t think the players were given a holiday.
Maybe they really should have had three weeks off, which of course, is the purpose of the mid-season break!
We also don't have a calm head in the team, someone who can just slow things down a bit and help us to regather ourselves.
Thats the only way Luiz can play.
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We were poor yesterday very poor however there was two big moments in the game that were decisive. That wall for their goal was shambolic. I mean what the actual fuck? And the fact that we employ a specialist set piece coach makes it even more baffling. He needs to be shown the door and pronto. And var can just fuck right off. I know I'm repeating myself here but it is impossible to be so precise from the angle we were shown. It's a guess and it's just ludicrous that they persist with it. But I guess the Premier league hierarchy will be thrilled that Newcastle were thrown a lifeline. All that lovely dosh that the human rights abusers have will be kept in the Prem. The whole thing is vomit inducing.
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Why did our goal keeper (Emi) dive for the free kick from Trippier even with the deflection his shot was going straight down the middle of his goal at knee height?
The performance yesterday was awful, hopefully on Saturday we will see Gerrard stamp his authority on this team, and if he has to drop a few of the "undroppables" then so be it (hopefully he wont think that the answer is to start Ashley)!
Hopefully Gerrard will sort this lot out in the summer, it seems as though it will be another summer of players being brought in and a fair few leaving
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Luiz reminds me of Craig David. He doesn’t turn up on a Monday, or a Tuesday can’t be arsed on a Wednesday Thursday Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
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Did I hear it correctly that the ref has been in charge for the last 3 Villa away matches? Surely something should be said about this? It cannot be right as things get spilled over from one match to the next. Also how come Newcastle had committed 21 free kicks yet had few yellow cards whereas a Villa player seemed to pick up a card after every foul.
I thought the ref was abysmal.
He was fucking awful, he basically booked McGinn, who'd won the ball, because he'd been arguing with him a minute earlier about another foul he hadn't given. Ramsey was fouled in the lead up to their goal too, about a minute after he'd given a free kick against Watkins for standing next to Trippier who just fell over.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
It probably won’t make much difference but it’s got to be done. Luiz just needs dropping full stop and in terms of Watkins and McGinn, they just need pulling out of the firing line for a bit and see if it does them good. They’re both good players that I think still have a good future with us.
Otherwise Gerrard has to put some fire in the belly and kick them up the arse. We have to have more intensity and desire amongst the whole team than was shown yesterday. And he cannot and must not fail to bring in a top quality DCM in the next window to come in for Sanson/Luiz.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
It probably won’t make much difference but it’s got to be done. Luiz just needs dropping full stop and in terms of Watkins and McGinn, they just need pulling out of the firing line for a bit and see if it does them good. They’re both good players that I think still have a good future with us.
Otherwise Gerrard has to put some fire in the belly and kick them up the arse. We have to have more intensity and desire amongst the whole team than was shown yesterday. And he cannot and must not fail to bring in a top quality DCM in the next window to come in for Sanson/Luiz.
I think we need to look at adding a big bastard in one of the midfield roles too, with Watkins all over the shop and Archer coming back next season, the front half of the team would look like it could play five a side for Snow White.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
It probably won’t make much difference but it’s got to be done. Luiz just needs dropping full stop and in terms of Watkins and McGinn, they just need pulling out of the firing line for a bit and see if it does them good. They’re both good players that I think still have a good future with us.
Otherwise Gerrard has to put some fire in the belly and kick them up the arse. We have to have more intensity and desire amongst the whole team than was shown yesterday. And he cannot and must not fail to bring in a top quality DCM in the next window to come in for Sanson/Luiz.
You're probably right. While it's probably extremely tempting to drop 4 or 5 of them, too much too soon and the season will really start to fall apart.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
It probably won’t make much difference but it’s got to be done. Luiz just needs dropping full stop and in terms of Watkins and McGinn, they just need pulling out of the firing line for a bit and see if it does them good. They’re both good players that I think still have a good future with us.
Otherwise Gerrard has to put some fire in the belly and kick them up the arse. We have to have more intensity and desire amongst the whole team than was shown yesterday. And he cannot and must not fail to bring in a top quality DCM in the next window to come in for Sanson/Luiz.
You're probably right. While it's probably extremely tempting to drop 4 or 5 of them, too much too soon and the season will really start to fall apart.
Yeah - I think we need to avoid getting to the chuck-everthing out and start again phase. A lot of the players are good - there just out of form
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Most of them had just had the best part of three weeks off.
Gerrard talked about training being full on like matchday.
We also had 2 friendly games on top of that. I don’t think the players were given a holiday.
Maybe they really should have had three weeks off, which of course, is the purpose of the mid-season break!
We also don't have a calm head in the team, someone who can just slow things down a bit and help us to regather ourselves.
Thats the only way Luiz can play.
Except it usually serves mainly to help the opposition regather and gain composure!
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Did I hear it correctly that the ref has been in charge for the last 3 Villa away matches? Surely something should be said about this? It cannot be right as things get spilled over from one match to the next. Also how come Newcastle had committed 21 free kicks yet had few yellow cards whereas a Villa player seemed to pick up a card after every foul.
I thought the ref was abysmal.
He was fucking awful, he basically booked McGinn, who'd won the ball, because he'd been arguing with him a minute earlier about another foul he hadn't given. Ramsey was fouled in the lead up to their goal too, about a minute after he'd given a free kick against Watkins for standing next to Trippier who just fell over.
Near the end he booked Leon Bailey for running into a player who just stopped in front of him.
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Did I hear it correctly that the ref has been in charge for the last 3 Villa away matches? Surely something should be said about this? It cannot be right as things get spilled over from one match to the next. Also how come Newcastle had committed 21 free kicks yet had few yellow cards whereas a Villa player seemed to pick up a card after every foul.
I thought the ref was abysmal.
He was fucking awful, he basically booked McGinn, who'd won the ball, because he'd been arguing with him a minute earlier about another foul he hadn't given. Ramsey was fouled in the lead up to their goal too, about a minute after he'd given a free kick against Watkins for standing next to Trippier who just fell over.
Near the end he booked Leon Bailey for running into a player who just stopped in front of him.
I know we're all biased when it comes to refs, but I keep on watching games where we're held to different standards than our opponents. Dan Burn got away with manahandling Watkins all game too.
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He did give us loads of free kicks as well. We were just utterly useless with them.
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We are desperate for a prime Gareth Barry & Petrov type of midfield. One to run around kicking people and the other actually making passes. :)
Watched Declan Rice vs Ndidi after our game: now, there are two decent CMF! It illustrated what we are lacking.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
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Luiz reminds me of Craig David. He doesn’t turn up on a Monday, or a Tuesday can’t be arsed on a Wednesday Thursday Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Isn't he making love by Wednesday?
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Luiz reminds me of Craig David. He doesn’t turn up on a Monday, or a Tuesday can’t be arsed on a Wednesday Thursday Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Isn't he making love by Wednesday?
Well he must be putting his energy somewhere.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
It probably won’t make much difference but it’s got to be done. Luiz just needs dropping full stop and in terms of Watkins and McGinn, they just need pulling out of the firing line for a bit and see if it does them good. They’re both good players that I think still have a good future with us.
Otherwise Gerrard has to put some fire in the belly and kick them up the arse. We have to have more intensity and desire amongst the whole team than was shown yesterday. And he cannot and must not fail to bring in a top quality DCM in the next window to come in for Sanson/Luiz.
You're probably right. While it's probably extremely tempting to drop 4 or 5 of them, too much too soon and the season will really start to fall apart.
Yep, think this is right. I dont think we have the strength in depth to take four first teamers out in one, however much we might want to after yesterday, it would just smell of panic. Despite reservations i would probably keep McGinn in for Saturday and just take out Luiz and Watkins for now. Chucky doesnt look ready for a start yet to me, so it would be Sanson and Ings as well and thats it other than a rocket up their arses
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
Of course it's all speculation, but if for example we'd got him, had a great second half of the season, finished 6, 7 or 8th we would have been far better placed in the summer to kick on, persuade Coutinho to stay and look for the next piece of the jigsaw. If on the other hand the season fizzles out and we finish 12-14 it's going to be a tough summer. I'm obviously making massive assumptions, but I do wonder if just paying the extra for such a pivitol position may have been worth it.
As it is I'd be amazed if we get Bissouma in the summer. If he doesn't get a top 4 team or Spurs / Arsenal, then my money would be on him going to Newcastle.
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If he drops Luiz, which he definitely should.
Who plays in his spot?
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
Of course it's all speculation, but if for example we'd got him, had a great second half of the season, finished 6, 7 or 8th we would have been far better placed in the summer to kick on, persuade Coutinho to stay and look for the next piece of the jigsaw. If on the other hand the season fizzles out and we finish 12-14 it's going to be a tough summer. I'm obviously making massive assumptions, but I do wonder if just paying the extra for such a pivitol position may have been worth it.
As it is I'd be amazed if we get Bissouma in the summer. If he doesn't get a top 4 team or Spurs / Arsenal, then my money would be on him going to Newcastle.
Looks like a fuck up to not get him.
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If he drops Luiz, which he definitely should.
Who plays in his spot?
Sanson or McGinn.
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I’d have Sanson in for Luiz and Ings for Watkins and leave it otherwise. If McGinn isn’t doing it I’d hook him at half time for Chucky.
Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
Of course it's all speculation, but if for example we'd got him, had a great second half of the season, finished 6, 7 or 8th we would have been far better placed in the summer to kick on, persuade Coutinho to stay and look for the next piece of the jigsaw. If on the other hand the season fizzles out and we finish 12-14 it's going to be a tough summer. I'm obviously making massive assumptions, but I do wonder if just paying the extra for such a pivitol position may have been worth it.
As it is I'd be amazed if we get Bissouma in the summer. If he doesn't get a top 4 team or Spurs / Arsenal, then my money would be on him going to Newcastle.
I guess without knowing the sums involved, how our spend looks in terms of FFP etc, it's difficult to evalute, but on purely playing terms we're clearly missing that type of player. Doubt it will be Newcastle though as they've just bought the Brazillian lad who plays there.
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If he drops Luiz, which he definitely should.
Who plays in his spot?
This is the hard part....we definitely need to switch to 4231 anyway. Sanson can be one of the two but it's one of Luiz or McGinn for the other spot. Putting Chambers in there as some have suggested might be a very long shot.
With Traore and Bailey not fully fit, realistically only Ings and Sanson can come in. Chucky is nowhere near ready and Young is finished.
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Only saw first half. Thought we were gash. Sloppy, poor ball retention and wasteful in decent areas. Think that’s the first truly bad performance I’ve seen of the new era. And we only lost 1-0. Not the end of the world, but I would’ve expected 4 pts minimum from last 2 matches.
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Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
Of course it's all speculation, but if for example we'd got him, had a great second half of the season, finished 6, 7 or 8th we would have been far better placed in the summer to kick on, persuade Coutinho to stay and look for the next piece of the jigsaw. If on the other hand the season fizzles out and we finish 12-14 it's going to be a tough summer. I'm obviously making massive assumptions, but I do wonder if just paying the extra for such a pivitol position may have been worth it.
As it is I'd be amazed if we get Bissouma in the summer. If he doesn't get a top 4 team or Spurs / Arsenal, then my money would be on him going to Newcastle.
Looks like a fuck up to not get him.
I seem to recall there was a significant number of people who didn't want to sign him because of his legal issues.
I agree with Lee's take on it.
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On the disallowed goal the ball reached Watkins off a Newcastle defender. I think there may be something about him needing to try and play the ball but surely by looking to block a shot that's exactly what he is doing hence Watkins is onside?
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On the disallowed goal the ball reached Watkins off a Newcastle defender. I think there may be something about him needing to try and play the ball but surely by looking to block a shot that's exactly what he is doing hence Watkins is onside?
A deflection is not a pass.
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For me, progress next year would be a villa team that is harder to beat. We have lost a staggering amount of games in each of the three years we have been back. Too often we fail to grind out a point from days like yesterday and it drags us down.
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On the disallowed goal the ball reached Watkins off a Newcastle defender. I think there may be something about him needing to try and play the ball but surely by looking to block a shot that's exactly what he is doing hence Watkins is onside?
Watkins is offside (well his fucking toe is, maybe) when Coutinho shoots, so the subsequent touches are irrelevant.
I have no doubt however that within a month tops, we'll be watching a goal awarded to Man City/ Man Utd/ Liverpool that will be given because of the subsequent touch by a defender, and then they'll come out and say the rule was changed at 3am on Boxing Day last year and everybody should know that, duh.
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[/quote]
A deflection is not a pass.
[/quote]
I bet it is some days when it happens to us.
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For me, progress next year would be a villa team that is harder to beat. We have lost a staggering amount of games in each of the three years we have been back. Too often we fail to grind out a point from days like yesterday and it drags us down.
Good point, we should not have lost that yesterday as both teams were as bad as each other. Horrific advert for the EPL.
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Yep.
Not going the extra mile for Bissouma feels like the mistake we all knew it would be.
Even so, our starting 11 is FAR better that both Leeds and Newcastle's and to come away with 1 point is pathetic.
It will be if we miss out on him, but I'm not sure there was enough left to chase this season to justify paying over the odds now. Had we been close to the top six and/or still in the cup then maybe they'd have gone for it.
Of course it's all speculation, but if for example we'd got him, had a great second half of the season, finished 6, 7 or 8th we would have been far better placed in the summer to kick on, persuade Coutinho to stay and look for the next piece of the jigsaw. If on the other hand the season fizzles out and we finish 12-14 it's going to be a tough summer. I'm obviously making massive assumptions, but I do wonder if just paying the extra for such a pivitol position may have been worth it.
As it is I'd be amazed if we get Bissouma in the summer. If he doesn't get a top 4 team or Spurs / Arsenal, then my money would be on him going to Newcastle.
Looks like a fuck up to not get him.
I seem to recall there was a significant number of people who didn't want to sign him because of his legal issues.
I agree with Lee's take on it.
Myself included - what if he gets found guilty? Doesn't mean I think we shouldn't have signed a decent DM though, and there must be more than one player out there. What are we paying Lange for? I would have gone for a loan to see the season out and gone back for Bissouma in the summer. Suspect we went for Chambers so he could fill in for Nakamba until fit, and wouldn't suprised to see him start there against Watford.
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We've been over this, but IF we bid for him (and it seems we did) it will be beacuse our lawyers are absolutely convinced that there's nothiing for him to answer to.
Konsa is out for two games, so Chambers will be starting at centrre back against Watford.
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Emi was at fault for the free kick. He's almost touching his left hand post when the ball is kicked. Whereas keeper positions the wall someone should be assigned to look at keeper's position as well.
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Trippier now out for an extended period with a fractured foot. Bit late for us.
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I see Trippier has fractured a bone in his foot, pity it didn’t happen half an hour earlier.
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Emi was at fault for the free kick. He's almost touching his left hand post when the ball is kicked. Whereas keeper positions the wall someone should be assigned to look at keeper's position as well.
it was him lining up Buendia in no mans land that was the problem
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Emi was at fault for the free kick. He's almost touching his left hand post when the ball is kicked. Whereas keeper positions the wall someone should be assigned to look at keeper's position as well.
it was him lining up Buendia in no mans land that was the problem
I've had a bugbear about keeper's walls for years now, they're always the wrong side. I'm sure there's plenty of data suggesting otherwise, but I think the wall should cover the far and not near side of the goal. If the keeper stands nearside, the ball has to travel further over the wall potentially giving a split second extra to get to it.
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Did the ball deflect off Buendia?
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Did the ball deflect off Buendia?
Yes, and on one view I thought it knicked off another player first.
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The wall was odd - but I'd back one of the best keepers in the world having a reason for how they were lined up. If Buendia doesn't dangle his leg at it then Emi catches it.
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Trippier now out for an extended period with a fractured foot. Bit late for us.
We never get any luck..why doesn't god help us? I always ask for 3 points nothing more as I am not a greedy person :'(
Is that Trippier done for the season? Shame if so :D
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Did the ball deflect off Buendia?
Yes, he lifted his knee and it flicked over the keeper otherwise I think he’d have saved it.
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Well if it deflected off Buendia how’s that Martinez’s fault? It’s a bit like blaming him for the Wolves goal which also deflected off Buendia from recollection. Simple answer stop putting Buendia in the way of anything as he’s costing us points!
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Anyone notice the "Oh, fuck off!" shove Tyrone gave to Buendia after the goal went in ?!
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We were poor yesterday very disappointed with the game.
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Anyone notice the "Oh, fuck off!" shove Tyrone gave to Buendia after the goal went in ?!
No, but I did notice Buendia straight away accept responsibility and apologising to Martinez.
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Anyway, I'm not blaming him, it's not like he shit out and turned his back.
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Anyway, I'm not blaming him, it's not like he shit out and turned his back.
Correct sorry wasn’t trying to say you had blamed him.
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Anyway, I'm not blaming him, it's not like he shit out and turned his back.
Correct sorry wasn’t trying to say you had blamed him.
No worries, I didn't think you had
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Well if it deflected off Buendia how’s that Martinez’s fault? It’s a bit like blaming him for the Wolves goal which also deflected off Buendia from recollection. Simple answer stop putting Buendia in the way of anything as he’s costing us points!
He was too far over to the left. If he been a couple of feet to the right he would have got to the deflected shot.
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Another thought on the refereeing, Martinelli got sent off for two yellows in the same passage of play the other night, Joelinton committed three on Buendia in about 20 yards yesterday but that was different, obviously.
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Anyway, I'm not blaming him, it's not like he shit out and turned his back.
On MOTD2 last night they showed the angle behind the goal where Buendia starts in a stooped/crouched position, at the same time leaving a gap between him and the rest of the Villa wall. It's that gap Trippier strikes the ball at and as Buendia raises himself from his stopped stance, his knee reflexes against the impact of the ball causing the deflection. A really weird and needless thing to do.
We've been beaten by two shittily deflected free kicks this season (yesterday and Wolves at home). Never mind dodgy offsides or handballs, deflections that cause a standard deviation greater than one and end in the back of the net, should be chalked-off.
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Anyway, I'm not blaming him, it's not like he shit out and turned his back.
On MOTD2 last night they showed the angle behind the goal where Buendia starts in a stooped/crouched position, at the same time leaving a gap between him and the rest of the Villa wall. It's that gap Trippier strikes the ball at and as Buendia raises himself from his stopped stance, his knee reflexes against the impact of the ball causing the deflection. A really weird and needless thing to do.
We've been beaten by two shittily deflected free kicks this season (yesterday and Wolves at home). Never mind dodgy offsides or handballs, deflections that cause a standard deviation greater than one and end in the back of the net, should be chalked-off.
It was, as the hairy baby maker himself has just pointed out on another thread, a truly shit wall. In fact, it was less a wall and more a comedy crazy golf hole.
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One bloody shot on target against that shower. Embarrassing.
In the last 5 days, Newcastle beat Everton easily, Everton batter Leeds, who were the better side against us......Jesus how bad are we?
But we beat Everton so that doesn't work does it?
Nobody in the mid table mire is consistent.
That's why we're in it.
Well yeah, but you're missing the point. I referenced a 5 day window, it's got fuck all to do with consistency or our result against Everton under different managers last September.
All I'm saying is the team isn't performing to the level I'd expect and I fear there's worse to come before it gets better
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We beat Everton 3 weeks ago.
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I was really shocked how none of our players looked up for it. Calamity Mings was better than he was against Leeds, but that's not saying much.
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We beat Everton 3 weeks ago.
And we didn't play particularly well in that one either.
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My son forced me to watch the match yesterday on Sky! I definitely felt duped!
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Emi was at fault for the free kick. He's almost touching his left hand post when the ball is kicked. Whereas keeper positions the wall someone should be assigned to look at keeper's position as well.
it was him lining up Buendia in no mans land that was the problem
I've had a bugbear about keeper's walls for years now, they're always the wrong side. I'm sure there's plenty of data suggesting otherwise, but I think the wall should cover the far and not near side of the goal. If the keeper stands nearside, the ball has to travel further over the wall potentially giving a split second extra to get to it.
You're assuming free-kicks at the near and far side are hit at the same pace, but that's not true. An extra couple of yards distance gives the free-kick taker the option of hitting it harder and the ball has more distance to move (and will move) with spin. Also, why would you give a player a free-hit at a less-protected near-side? They're a little bit closer, and with no wall in the way can hit it at the closer target that much much harder. Yes, the goalkeeper is that side, but it feels like a slightly more difficult penalty. If someone is going for pure power, I want them aiming at the furthest point possible.
If the wall does its job, a goal is probably the result a keeper mistake. If a free-kick taker can get it over a wall and under the bar, they probably score - and that's harder to do the closer you are.
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Lots of gloating Geordies on the internet today. Apparently we didn’t soothe our relations with them by singing “we sent you down” yesterday. A few Bluenoses too, they can’t beat us on the pitch themselves so they have to hitch onto when other teams do it. We’re all plastic Brummies apparently says a nose who lives in Cannock!
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I'm still fuming about this match.
I try and find a positive spin from most games involving the Villa but there wasn't one encouraging word I can find about that shower of Shit display. The players should be made to pay for the expenses of the traveling fans that had to make that difficult journey, only to be rewarded with the absolute disgusting performance.
We can talk about our shambolic set pieces and how we didn't line up the wall properly or the Fact that Douglas Luiz just decides to take every free kick and cant even keep it on the pitch. We can talk about Formations not really working for us or that we are missing a defensive midfielder but we couldn't even pass the ball to nearest player yesterday.
Was it my imagination but did McGinn take a free kick and literally pass it to a Newcastle player standing 2 feet in front of him?
We signed all these decent players that are technically good on the ball and our plan seems to be give it Mings to hoof up the field.
I'm not even sure where we go from this performance it was that demoralising. If we don't beat Watford on Saturday then there is no hope for us.
The only positive thing to say about Villa at the moment is the players on loan are doing well.
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Emi was at fault for the free kick. He's almost touching his left hand post when the ball is kicked. Whereas keeper positions the wall someone should be assigned to look at keeper's position as well.
it was him lining up Buendia in no mans land that was the problem
I've had a bugbear about keeper's walls for years now, they're always the wrong side. I'm sure there's plenty of data suggesting otherwise, but I think the wall should cover the far and not near side of the goal. If the keeper stands nearside, the ball has to travel further over the wall potentially giving a split second extra to get to it.
You're assuming free-kicks at the near and far side are hit at the same pace, but that's not true. An extra couple of yards distance gives the free-kick taker the option of hitting it harder and the ball has more distance to move (and will move) with spin. Also, why would you give a player a free-hit at a less-protected near-side? They're a little bit closer, and with no wall in the way can hit it at the closer target that much much harder. Yes, the goalkeeper is that side, but it feels like a slightly more difficult penalty. If someone is going for pure power, I want them aiming at the furthest point possible.
If the wall does its job, a goal is probably the result a keeper mistake. If a free-kick taker can get it over a wall and under the bar, they probably score - and that's harder to do the closer you are.
Good effort but I remain utterly unconvinced.
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We beat Everton 3 weeks ago.
And we didn't play particularly well in that one either.
Bit of moving the goalposts there It seems to me you were making leaps along the lines of, we draw with Leeds, Everton beat Leeds, we’re worse than both Leeds and Everton (despite them both being lower in the table). You’ve then moved the goalposts to suit your point.
As Ads pointed out we beat Everton a couple of weeks ago, we were easily the better team in the first half against them and held them off reasonably comfortably in the second half. Your original point really doesn’t stand up.
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Not read all posts until tomorrow but I'm afraid time is up for the undropables
Mcginn
Luiz
Watkins
If not then the beady eye of blame will turn directly towards Gerrard
[/quotNot read all posts until tomorrow but I'm afraid time is up for the undropables
Mcginn
Luiz
Watkins
If not then the beady eye of blame will turn directly towards Gerrard
What? That’s ridiculous, I think SG needs more than a January transfer window and 3 months in charge before “the beady eye of blame” come on ffs
I am sorry - i really like SG and his openness and honesty about things but
Stevie Wonder can see that the likes of Luiz, McGinn and Watkins are just not doing it - never mind a coach who was one of the greatest midfielders in a generation
So yes - it is expected he gets to grips with it
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I know we were rubbish yesterday and deserved to get nothing from the game, but
VAR IS DOING MY HEAD IN!!!
Can someone just explain to me. Does every goal scored have to reviewed by VAR before its allowed? Surely if a team scores and they is no linesmans flag, and the opposing team are not surrounding the ref crying off side, or handball and the ref hasn't blown his whistle then thats a goal isn't it? Does the ref have to ask VAR to review if he's usure, or do VAR just take it on themselves to review regardless of the onfield officials? If they have to start drawing on lines to measure the thickness of a shoelace then thats not a 'clear and obvious' error. VAR was not meant to forensically examine every goal looking for a reason to dissallow it, its completely ruining the game. I'm seriously think about abandoning football altogether if they don't change the way VAR is used during matches. You can't even celebrate a goal anymore until VAR has given it the all clear, and if the instant pleasure of your team scoring is taken away, whats left?
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Yes every goal is reviewed.
Offsides are supposedly - Objective - a matter of fact so the "clear and obvious error" does not apply.
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Yes every goal is reviewed.
Offsides are supposedly - Objective - a matter of fact so the "clear and obvious error" does not apply.
It still pisses me off. It would be fair enough if VAR for offside was using some advanced laser/radar/hawkeye technology that measured where players were at the precise moment the ball left a player's boot, but what we've actually got is some eejit sat miles away using his judgement and drawing lines using the digital version of a felt tip pen and ruler, with all the problems of parallax, perspective and angles etc that that entails.
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Just be thankful we're not still in the Ceefax age. You'd celebrate a goal on one rotation then five minutes later find it's been chalked off.
I think they may as well just play the game and tell us the result a week later when they've rewatched it 40 times at 1/1000th speed. That'll stop teams trying to sit on a lead. See, there's a ready reason for all kinds of fuckwitted schemes.
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Well thats very depressing. Its interesting how they have adjusted the law slightly with regard to handball, but will not allow the same leaway to the offside rule. Its just black and white, you're either on of offside. Not that you gain any particular advantage if the toe of your boot is in an offside position anyway. Its nonsense!
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Can't see how West Ham's goal "headed" by the arm of their centre back is allowed whereas Ollie, who uses his head to score, is denied due to a languid foot. The Barcodes defender they measured him against, knows bugger-all about what's about to happen. It's not as if he's trying to play him off. All seems down to luck.
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At present we are the best 12th team in the prem. The table never lies.
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Can't see how West Ham's goal "headed" by the arm of their centre back is allowed whereas Ollie, who uses his head to score, is denied due to a languid foot. The Barcodes defender they measured him against, knows bugger-all about what's about to happen. It's not as if he's trying to play him off. All seems down to luck.
It's bollocks, what advantage does Watkins gain? One tiny part of him is offside, the other 90% is on.
Maybe they can use that, if less than 50% of body mass is off the goal stands.
Or maybe they could host fuck the whole shitshow off and accept it's added nothing, absolutely nothing, to the game and just serves to piss people off and ruin entertainment.
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How about saying it is only offside if the part of the player that is used to score is offside?
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Can't see how West Ham's goal "headed" by the arm of their centre back is allowed whereas Ollie, who uses his head to score, is denied due to a languid foot. The Barcodes defender they measured him against, knows bugger-all about what's about to happen. It's not as if he's trying to play him off. All seems down to luck.
It's bollocks, what advantage does Watkins gain? One tiny part of him is offside, the other 90% is on.
Maybe they can use that, if less than 50% of body mass is off the goal stands.
Or maybe they could host fuck the whole shitshow off and accept it's added nothing, absolutely nothing, to the game and just serves to piss people off and ruin entertainment.
If they just applied "clear and obvious" to offside as well, everything would be fine. The Watkins effort looked like a perfectly good goal from watching it, but I knew it would be a few minute check to see if it was legal, so went and put the kettle on rather than celebrate it. That's what they've done to football.
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How about saying it is only offside if the part of the player that is used to score is offside?
It doesn't seem unreasonable, does it?
Though I suggest having a man with a flag at the side of the pitch, who could signal to the referee if he sees it.
Joking aside, I know they don't flag straight away or appear to do much at all, but that lino wasn't having any of that as offside in real time because that's the first thing I looked at (couldn't see the full back playing him on at the time), he kept his arm firmly down and bolted straight back to the halfway line, because he could fucking see it was onside.
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It's not going to go away but just have a quick look and if the forward's clearly offside, fine. No sodding lines or ten minute analysis please.
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Also, are the lines actually "thicker" than last season ie would Ollienhave been even more offside last year? Feel quite sorry for him, he's been VAR'd and hit the woodwork a hell of a lot in his 18 months with us.
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Feel quite sorry for him, he's been VAR'd and hit the woodwork a hell of a lot in his 18 months with us.
To paraphrase Napoleon, I'd rather have a lucky striker than a good one. This season Ollie is neither.
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Howe's saying Trippier got stamped on. Disappointing when managers come out with this crap. I don't recall the incident (who was it) but isn't getting your foot trodden on part and parcel of playing 'foot' ball. It's not like his thigh, calf or chest were stamped on.
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Howe is a shit weasel. Newcastle look absolutely no different than they did under Bruce and but for the spawny deflection were as limp attack wise as us.
He's always had a team of snide thugs, yet somehow he's got a reputation for playing football.
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Howe is a shit weasel. Newcastle look absolutely no different than they did under Bruce and but for the spawny deflection were as limp attack wise as us.
He's always had a team of snide thugs, yet somehow he's got a reputation for playing football.
Agreed in full, tosser, and that bloke out of TOWIE next to him.
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I always thought that Howe has the look of somebody out of the Hitler Youth.
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I always thought that Howe has the look of somebody out of the Hitler Youth.
;D That's a very apt description!
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Crikey ;D
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Sorry Eddie.
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Howe is a shit weasel. Newcastle look absolutely no different than they did under Bruce and but for the spawny deflection were as limp attack wise as us.
He's always had a team of snide thugs, yet somehow he's got a reputation for playing football.
Agreed in full, tosser, and that bloke out of TOWIE next to him.
His assistant definitely looked like he'd been on the sunbeds
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Sorry Eddie.
No need, it's not like he's averse to serving murderous regimes.
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Sorry Eddie.
No need, it's not like he's adverse to serving murderous regimes.
Haha
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Can't see how West Ham's goal "headed" by the arm of their centre back is allowed whereas Ollie, who uses his head to score, is denied due to a languid foot. The Barcodes defender they measured him against, knows bugger-all about what's about to happen. It's not as if he's trying to play him off. All seems down to luck.
It's bollocks, what advantage does Watkins gain? One tiny part of him is offside, the other 90% is on.
Maybe they can use that, if less than 50% of body mass is off the goal stands.
Or maybe they could host fuck the whole shitshow off and accept it's added nothing, absolutely nothing, to the game and just serves to piss people off and ruin entertainment.
There is simply no doubt that var has taken away a whole lot more from the spectacle of a live game of football than it's given. The one problem above all others is the officials stubborn refusal to adhere to the official guidelines namely that it was introduced to stop "clear and obvious errors" Once you start drawing lines on the screen you're no longer following the rules. Why are they being allowed to do this by the club's? It's almost as though it's being run deliberately badly by the officials to sabotage it.
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I always thought that Howe has the look of somebody out of the Hitler Youth.
;D That's a very apt description!
I think he looks like a footballer from the 66 World Cup or a London gangster of that era.
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I always thought that Howe has the look of somebody out of the Hitler Youth.
;D That's a very apt description!
I think he looks like a footballer from the 66 World Cup or a London gangster of that era.
I think he looks like a bitter PE teacher
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VAR has added nothing to the game because it is being used way too often. It should only be used in exceptional circumstances, where its obvious a mistake has been made by one of the on pitch officials. Let the ref and linesmen get on with their job and let the game flow.
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Ive always thought he looks like he should be another Gardner brother.
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VAR has added nothing to the game because it is being used way too often. It should only be used in exceptional circumstances, where its obvious a mistake has been made by one of the on pitch officials. Let the ref and linesmen get on with their job and let the game flow.
Who decides what's obvious?
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The ref should WANT to use VAR if he/she wants another ruling that he/she could not make with their assistants. It shouldn’t be a voice in the ear governing the decision.
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The quality of the picture, which looked like it shot from 10miles away, wasnt great either.
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VAR has added nothing to the game because it is being used way too often. It should only be used in exceptional circumstances, where its obvious a mistake has been made by one of the on pitch officials. Let the ref and linesmen get on with their job and let the game flow.
Who decides what's obvious?
I know, its not easy, I just feel VAR has taken over and its ruining the 'beautiful' game. Just fed up with it, and don't even get me started on the FA Cup game with Man U
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And they picked a still frame when the ball had already left whoever its was foot. Anyway usually I'd be all for a chance too moan about how shit VAR is but on this occasion our 'performance' fucked me off way more than that decision did.
And as everybody knows, we only stayed up because of the goal line technology malfunctioning 3 months before the end of the season so we're due a few more shit VAR decisions.
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The quality of the picture, which looked like it shot from 10miles away, wasnt great either.
Was it shot from the away end?
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How can this be accurate?
(https://i.ibb.co/R2hvs9y/DE027-FBC-24-D6-4335-9144-B29-C6840410-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2hvs9y)
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And they picked a still frame when the ball had already left whoever its was foot. Anyway usually I'd be all for a chance too moan about how shit VAR is but on this occasion our 'performance' fucked me off way more than that decision did.
And as everybody knows, we only stayed up because of the goal line technology malfunctioning 3 months before the end of the season so we're due a few more shit VAR decisions.
Oh yes, I forgot about that, I'll go and put the hairshirt back on.
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I was watching rugby league on Saturday and the checking of offsides is literally one quick look "yeah they look onside". No need for zooming in and lines and the like. We should adopt the same approach in football.
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I was watching rugby league on Saturday and the checking of offsides is literally one quick look "yeah they look onside". No need for zooming in and lines and the like. We should adopt the same approach in football.
Yeah Agreed - like in Cricket, where there is empires call, cos its too close for the tech to be able to say for certain what would happen. In those cases, revert to the on-pitch decision.
Its not perfect, but neither is the solution we have now. And the solution we have now is open to corruption, kills the excitment of the game and is just replacing one persons opinion with another.
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I was watching rugby league on Saturday and the checking of offsides is literally one quick look "yeah they look onside". No need for zooming in and lines and the like. We should adopt the same approach in football.
Yeah Agreed - like in Cricket, where there is empires call, cos its too close for the tech to be able to say for certain what would happen. In those cases, revert to the on-pitch decision.
Its not perfect, but neither is the solution we have now. And the solution we have now is open to corruption, kills the excitment of the game and is just replacing one persons opinion with another.
Please tell me that's not a typo and rugby league really does have an emperor.
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I was watching rugby league on Saturday and the checking of offsides is literally one quick look "yeah they look onside". No need for zooming in and lines and the like. We should adopt the same approach in football.
Yeah Agreed - like in Cricket, where there is empires call, cos its too close for the tech to be able to say for certain what would happen. In those cases, revert to the on-pitch decision.
Its not perfect, but neither is the solution we have now. And the solution we have now is open to corruption, kills the excitment of the game and is just replacing one persons opinion with another.
Please tell me that's not a typo and rugby league really does have an emperor.
T'emperor
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I stupidly celebrated the goal on Sunday, yet again, my 11 year old son wouldn’t celebrate in case of a VAR decision. That should be the reason VAR is binned. How did we all become obsessed with football and the Villa and what are our memories from childhood. Mine are a blurry image of Pete Withe scoring a far post header against the Albion, or later McInally running past half the Millwall Team in a half empty Villa Park on a cold Wednesday night in the late 80s.
My son is Villa mad, has been a season ticket holder since the championship years and ive been taking him regularly since the relegation season (child cruelty).
He literally thinks and is cautious about celebrating every goal now, in case some twat with felt tip pens chalks it off (and we were both at Old Trafford where they had 3 goes at it). Whats his memories going to be like in 30 years, ‘oh yea remember that time we equalised in the cup at Old Trafford and some middle aged man with his stencil pack ruled it out’.
The way the technology is being employed is ruining the game. However bad Watkins is playing at the moment, his toe being ahead of the defender is not offside.
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
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I stupidly celebrated the goal on Sunday, yet again, my 11 year old son wouldn’t celebrate in case of a VAR decision. That should be the reason VAR is binned. How did we all become obsessed with football and the Villa and what are our memories from childhood. Mine are a blurry image of Pete Withe scoring a far post header against the Albion, or later McInally running past half the Millwall Team in a half empty Villa Park on a cold Wednesday night in the late 80s.
My son is Villa mad, has been a season ticket holder since the championship years and ive been taking him regularly since the relegation season (child cruelty).
He literally thinks and is cautious about celebrating every goal now, in case some twat with felt tip pens chalks it off (and we were both at Old Trafford where they had 3 goes at it). Whats his memories going to be like in 30 years, ‘oh yea remember that time we equalised in the cup at Old Trafford and some middle aged man with his stencil pack ruled it out’.
The way the technology is being employed is ruining the game. However bad Watkins is playing at the moment, his toe being ahead of the defender is not offside.
completely agree it has changed the match day experience beyond belief.
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
That they'll completely ignore in the same way as they are now. I'm still amazed that the club's haven't more vocal about these unelected chumps having such a negative stranglehold on the game. I guess the perception that the top clubs are getting the majority of beneficial decisions might influence things but it takes 14 clubs to force the debate so surely there's enough clubs with a grievance to speak up.
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
That they'll completely ignore in the same way as they are now. I'm still amazed that the club's haven't more vocal about these unelected chumps having such a negative stranglehold on the game. I guess the perception that the top clubs are getting the majority of beneficial decisions might influence things but it takes 14 clubs to force the debate so surely there's enough clubs with a grievance to speak up.
I think the clubs (and particularly the 14 you refer to) have to be stronger in effecting change to var.
The fans are unhappy, but a poor var decision which affects one team benefits another, so fans will never be together on this at one time. Even neutrals don't give a sh-t over a poor decision if their team isn't involved.
Without the clubs taking a stand I can't see any positive change.
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
That they'll completely ignore in the same way as they are now. I'm still amazed that the club's haven't more vocal about these unelected chumps having such a negative stranglehold on the game. I guess the perception that the top clubs are getting the majority of beneficial decisions might influence things but it takes 14 clubs to force the debate so surely there's enough clubs with a grievance to speak up.
I think the clubs (and particularly the 14 you refer to) have to be stronger in effecting change to var.
The fans are unhappy, but a poor var decision which affects one team benefits another, so fans will never be together on this at one time. Even neutrals don't give a sh-t over a poor decision if their team isn't involved.
Without the clubs taking a stand I can't see any positive change.
I'd rather the mm offside goals were given to be honest, even if against us. Everybody wants to see more goals scored, and so the ridiculous position with offsides is ruining football in two ways. It's chalking off goals that would have been given in previous years, and it's stopping the spontaneity of the joy of celebrating a goal.
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
That they'll completely ignore in the same way as they are now. I'm still amazed that the club's haven't more vocal about these unelected chumps having such a negative stranglehold on the game. I guess the perception that the top clubs are getting the majority of beneficial decisions might influence things but it takes 14 clubs to force the debate so surely there's enough clubs with a grievance to speak up.
I think the clubs (and particularly the 14 you refer to) have to be stronger in effecting change to var.
The fans are unhappy, but a poor var decision which affects one team benefits another, so fans will never be together on this at one time. Even neutrals don't give a sh-t over a poor decision if their team isn't involved.
Without the clubs taking a stand I can't see any positive change.
I'd rather the mm offside goals were given to be honest, even if against us. Everybody wants to see more goals scored, and so the ridiculous position with offsides is ruining football in two ways. It's chalking off goals that would have been given in previous years, and it's stopping the spontaneity of the joy of celebrating a goal.
Yeah I totally agree and VAR need to be given a minimum amount of time say 5-10 secs to look at it with the naked Eye and return the answer to the ref Instantaneously.
That way we still might celebrate and it not be given but it would only be the same as not seeing the assistant referees flag.
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You could tell by the lino's reaction on Sunday he'd seen the line and seen it as onside
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I would imagine that at the end of the season there will be further rule changes regarding offside and VAR
That they'll completely ignore in the same way as they are now. I'm still amazed that the club's haven't more vocal about these unelected chumps having such a negative stranglehold on the game. I guess the perception that the top clubs are getting the majority of beneficial decisions might influence things but it takes 14 clubs to force the debate so surely there's enough clubs with a grievance to speak up.
I think the clubs (and particularly the 14 you refer to) have to be stronger in effecting change to var.
The fans are unhappy, but a poor var decision which affects one team benefits another, so fans will never be together on this at one time. Even neutrals don't give a sh-t over a poor decision if their team isn't involved.
Without the clubs taking a stand I can't see any positive change.
I'd rather the mm offside goals were given to be honest, even if against us. Everybody wants to see more goals scored, and so the ridiculous position with offsides is ruining football in two ways. It's chalking off goals that would have been given in previous years, and it's stopping the spontaneity of the joy of celebrating a goal.
Yeah I totally agree and VAR need to be given a minimum amount of time say 5-10 secs to look at it with the naked Eye and return the answer to the ref Instantaneously.
That way we still might celebrate and it not be given but it would only be the same as not seeing the assistant referees flag.
Yep - VAR was brought in to stop those decisions that left us raging. If Newcastle had scored Ollie’s goal, none of us would have actually thought it was any kind of travesty if it had been given.
On the other hand, we would have been pissed off by the ‘penalty’ which was really a free kick - so the ones like those that you can see immediately, maybe there is some value to? (We would never have known that the free kick was going straight in anyway!)
On balance though - I’d take been angry about the penalty like we used to over this joy hoover.
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
The offside thing is odd because it is meant to be black and white, either on or off, but no-one is happy with how it is administered as far as I can tell.
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
And that's exactly the kind of situation it was brought in for. It corrected a ref's obvious mistake. The offside, they just took over and gave what they wanted too. We saw the best and the worst of it.
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
The offside thing is odd because it is meant to be black and white, either on or off, but no-one is happy with how it is administered as far as I can tell.
That’s because the offside rule is not designed the level of analysis that VAR buts it under. If it’s visible by the naked eye then fine but otherwise go with the on field decision
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I think the least that VAR could do is to gauge the part of the body that puts the ball in the net. Watkins used his head which was onside.
At least that would get round the scenarios where a player's toe is offside and he heads it in, or his forehead is offside, but he scores with his foot.
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Also the interfering with play scenario. The defender the line was drawn from was nowhere near the ball so had no influence on the goal being scored or not, except an imaginary line from his heel to Ollies toe 20m away.
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I think the least that VAR could do is to gauge the part of the body that puts the ball in the net. Watkins used his head which was onside.
At least that would get round the scenarios where a player's toe is offside and he heads it in, or his forehead is offside, but he scores with his foot.
But then if his foot wasn’t offside would his body be positioned right to score with his head? I don’t think they should change it
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
The offside thing is odd because it is meant to be black and white, either on or off, but no-one is happy with how it is administered as far as I can tell.
Speaking of penalties why did we not get one when Mings shirt was literally ripped off his back? Not a peep from anyone. Forget var if the onfield officials can't spot something as blatant as that one we may as well give up.
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
The offside thing is odd because it is meant to be black and white, either on or off, but no-one is happy with how it is administered as far as I can tell.
Speaking of penalties why did we not get one when Mings shirt was literally ripped off his back? Not a peep from anyone. Forget var if the onfield officials can't spot something as blatant as that one we may as well give up.
Both Burn and Joelinton should have been given 2nd yellows ...
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Good point re the penalty. That was a clear and obvious error so VAR worked in that situation.
The offside thing is odd because it is meant to be black and white, either on or off, but no-one is happy with how it is administered as far as I can tell.
Speaking of penalties why did we not get one when Mings shirt was literally ripped off his back? Not a peep from anyone. Forget var if the onfield officials can't spot something as blatant as that one we may as well give up.
Ming's should have channelled the ref at the time, instead of meakly accepting it
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Having reflected on the game I've come to the conclusion the Leeds game knackered most of the players. Gerrard and his team no doubt have the stats to prove otherwise but you know what they say about statistics..
The disappointing thing is Newcastle were probably the worst team we've faced this season and were there for the taking. We have a squad, we should bloody use it.
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Tired but crap
So many schoolboy howlers, Luiz and ? both attempting the same free kick and almost falling over each other
Mings and Martinez faffing over a ball played into the box , no communication between them
Every set piece we took
I hope what ever team he puts out next have been introduced to each other before the kick off
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I think the least that VAR could do is to gauge the part of the body that puts the ball in the net. Watkins used his head which was onside.
At least that would get round the scenarios where a player's toe is offside and he heads it in, or his forehead is offside, but he scores with his foot.
So, say the marginal offside happens in the 'D'. Jonny Fastasfuck's left big toe is marginally offside when he puts the afterburners on, bursts round the 'keeper and slots it away.
Left foot finish, he's offside, right foot he isn't?
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I stupidly celebrated the goal on Sunday, yet again, my 11 year old son wouldn’t celebrate in case of a VAR decision. That should be the reason VAR is binned. How did we all become obsessed with football and the Villa and what are our memories from childhood. Mine are a blurry image of Pete Withe scoring a far post header against the Albion, or later McInally running past half the Millwall Team in a half empty Villa Park on a cold Wednesday night in the late 80s.
My son is Villa mad, has been a season ticket holder since the championship years and ive been taking him regularly since the relegation season (child cruelty).
He literally thinks and is cautious about celebrating every goal now, in case some twat with felt tip pens chalks it off (and we were both at Old Trafford where they had 3 goes at it). Whats his memories going to be like in 30 years, ‘oh yea remember that time we equalised in the cup at Old Trafford and some middle aged man with his stencil pack ruled it out’.
The way the technology is being employed is ruining the game. However bad Watkins is playing at the moment, his toe being ahead of the defender is not offside.
Agreed, it's a fucking shit system.
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I'm glad I didn't watch this.