Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on April 04, 2015, 04:50:08 PM
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'twas ever thus.
3/4 - 1 Might as well just be scratched in at the start of the season.
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Shite football. Shite subs. Shite results elsewhere.
Need to step it up massively on Tuesday.
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Shite, but at least not a total capitulation.
Need our attacking players healthy for QPR, because Weimann and N'Zogbia were particularly dire even as part of a rotten lot.
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Pretty terrible day for us really. Beating QPR on Tuesday is vital now. We were woeful today.
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It was a shockingly poor display and our normal sort of rubbish against that lot. We have to win on Tuesday.
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Arse biscuits. Massive game on Tuesday now.
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Score was about what i expected. We were poor though. Didn't really deserve our goal.
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At least we scored another goal in the season of droughts.
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Whether or not we avoid the drop, we need a fucking massive clear-out of dross this summer.
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Shite football. Shite subs. Shite results elsewhere.
I'm not that fussed by the Leicester result.
If they stay up, it won't be at our expense given the remaining games. Could have done without West Brom rolling over, but we'll be six points clear of QPR with six games left by Wednesday morning.
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Pathetic our usual rolling over and dying act for them. Bad day for us all round as well with the other results. It's vital we do not lose on Tuesday.
I really can't wait for May to come round so I won't have to watch any bloody football for a couple of months sick to death of it.
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Hard not to be down about such a shit day. But we can't always lose and expect the others at the bottom to lose.
Utd may not have their best team ever but we can certainly say the same.
QPR is going to be hard to watch.
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I remain in hope that it was Sherwood's way of keeping our powder dry for Tuesday. The place has to be quarter final-esque if we're to keep out of this shit for the fifth year in a row.
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QPR now 4-1. Nervous about Tuesday now.
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Really bad weekend for us on all fronts. We turned up looking like typical Lambore side and deserved nothing, pathetic performance, if that was us scrapping for everything then we're in big trouble.
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I reckon if Sherwood remains in charge then Gil's Villa career is over.
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Fookin Bitters. That's the critical result of today.
Our result no great surprise, really.
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Hope the QPR result works for us in a way. We normally end other teams losing runs, or long sequences home / away without a win.
Hopefully they'll think they are a bit better than they really are.
Tuesday is absolutely huge for us.
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The pretty routine bi-annual belly tickling from Utd.
I don't think it would be an understatement to say that we need a huge squad overhaul. There's far too much dross.
We need at least 11 new first team players. It's that bad.
Guzan, Okore, Clark, Hutton, Delph, Benteke are first teamers (at a push). The rest are either not good enough or far too injury prone.
Take the matches. Put the club up in flames, collect the insurance money and start again from scratch.
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Gil simply has to start. We cannot keep playing creatively bankrupt players like Weimann.
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That's the thing - today was really about what others did. Villa always get turned over whether they play well at Old Trafford or they're abject. Had the Baggies actually walked it like they talked it we'd probably be saying 'On to Tuesday' right now. We're still at home, still playing a team with a crap away record and still capable of winning these pressure games.
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How I wish Rooney would disappear. An annoying, dirty ******. Fuck off Villa with your boring apprehensive, far too much respect, ineffective, crap football
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
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It's hard to describe how angry I am right now. Didn't have any sort of expectations going into the game but how we played was simply appalling.
The lack of anticipation and incredible inability to pass to our own was our downfall. It blows my mind how professional footballers are literally incapable of possessing the football. How on earth has Andi Weimann made it this far in his career, the boy offers nothing unless he's full speed on goal and given a pass out in front of him.
Joe Cole (regardless of his assist) coming on over Gil really angers me.
I thought the back four played pretty well considering the constant pressure they were under. The midfield could not for the life of them retain the ball, and Benteke just could not hold the ball up.
Thought the referee was really poor. Also, I don't think I have ever seen a player celebrate more vigorously against a former club then Ashley Young, absolute piece of shit.
All the clubs we needed to lose won. We better step it up for QPR, I'm sick of giving the benefit of the doubt to these "professionals" because quite frankly some people out there embarrassed themselves today. Has to be better, it has to.
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I reckon if Sherwood remains in charge then Gil's Villa career is over.
I think Sherwood prefers 100mph, Prem breed players, for better or worse.
Gil may turn it around in pre-season, but it's not looking good for him.
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So much for going to Old Trafford and play on the front foot. I thought Utd were terrible in the second half and Villa just didn't have the belief to go after the game. Very dissapointed with Sherwood's team selection and set up as I really thought we might have a go today. Tuesday night is now massive. I'm nervous already.
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We go again.
7 cup finals.
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Gil simply has to start. We cannot keep playing creatively bankrupt players like Weimann.
In fairness to Andi he was better than Benteke and Gabby today. He's a poor player of course but he's a trier. Benteke looked half asleep today and a fortuitous goal out of nothing can't mask an abject display. Too many more like that and I honestly would care if we fucked him off for 20 pence and a second hand copy of razzle.
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I'm not bothered about the team selection, apart from the non use of Gil, which is mystifying. But tactically it's the same as it ever was - 'sorry, Mr Van Gaal, sir; can we play on your lawn please?' It's a joke how easy it is for them. One of the least celebrated United squads in decades and we hardly make a dent.
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So much for going to Old Trafford and play on the front foot. I thought Utd were terrible in the second half and Villa just didn't have the belief to go after the game. Very dissapointed with Sherwood's team selection and set up as I really thought we might have a go today. Tuesday night is now massive. I'm nervous already.
It's the most disappointing line up he's put out yet. Furthermore, he's normally been pretty decent with subs, but today was wretched. Baker for Zogbia was a bad call. He'd have been better off putting Baker in for Hutton to start with and making an attacking sub for Zogbia.
Gil and Grealish must have been scratching there heads. Cole came on and despite a fortunate assist was largely ineffective and as per usual was breathing out his arse after 5 minutes.
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I'm not bothered about the team selection, apart from the non use of Gil, which is mystifying. But tactically it's the same as it ever was - 'sorry, Mr Van Gaal, sir; can we play on your lawn please?' It's a joke how easy it is for them. One of the least celebrated United squads in decades and we hardly make a dent.
It just astounds me that those wankers are actually still in with a shout at the title. They're played pretty poor all season. Results of course have largely been good but really it shows how piss poor this league is.
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Hard to feel anything about such a nailed on result. Think they call it apathy.
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Sadly,the scoreline i predicted in the pre match thread, Can there be any other club that continually concede in the dying minutes of a match like we do!
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The most predictable match in the calendar, year after year.
However, it's not worth worrying too much about fixtures like this.
What we need to be worrying about are fixtures like Swansea or Stoke where we also manage to get beaten regularly.
If we lose to QPR on Tuesday, we genuinely are in a whole world of shit.
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Sadly,the scoreline i predicted in the pre match thread, Can there be any other club that continually concede in the dying minutes of a match like we do!
at least it didn't loose us a point this time
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One the one hand, I'm glad it wasn't a hammering. I thought our defensive shape was decent and it's not often you rue the odd missed chance at Old Trafford because it's usually a consolation. On the other hand, it's still a three goal loss, so we may as well have gone for it. We'll never win there again.
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The usual. But expected. We move on.
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The most predictable match in the calendar, year after year.
However, it's not worth worrying too much about fixtures like this.
What we need to be worrying about are fixtures like Swansea or Stoke where we also manage to get beaten regularly.
If we lose to QPR on Tuesday, we genuinely are in a whole world of shit.
I was far more pissed off about those results. Two extra points and Tuesday would be a 'win that and you're safe' rather than 'you'd better win that or you're fucked'.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
That's why England is awful. People truly believe the likes of Rooney, Carrick and Phil Jones are world beaters.
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The most predictable match in the calendar, year after year.
However, it's not worth worrying too much about fixtures like this.
What we need to be worrying about are fixtures like Swansea or Stoke where we also manage to get beaten regularly.
If we lose to QPR on Tuesday, we genuinely are in a whole world of shit.
Yep we badly need to win and play a lot fucking better on Tuesday.
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Thank the lord Man Utd were 2nd half thinking more about their derby game next week. They're nothing special but we did ourselves no favours.
QPR is now massive and having just seen their goals today, they look like a completely different team.
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I am afraid that I am having to revise my belief that Sherwood can bring about a change of attitude in the players by force of personality alone We knew with TSM1 and TSM2 that our squad can on their day turn out a good performance and that seems to be what Sherwood has to face but he looks like he is struggling with players who have attitude problems. I am very down and think that we could be facing the mega pain of losing an FA Cup Semifinal and being relegated in the same season.
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Sherwood isn't doing great is he.......Played 6 - Lost 4 - Won 2
Odds on draw for Tuesday.
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If Burnley and Sunderland win their home matches tomorrow we are really in the smelly stuff.
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I reckon if Sherwood remains in charge then Gil's Villa career is over.
I think Sherwood prefers 100mph, Prem breed players, for better or worse.
Gil may turn it around in pre-season, but it's not looking good for him.
I think he prefers to have that sort of player now. He has said that the way he plays in trying to keep us up isn't how he would necessarily start the season. That said, it would be nice to see what Gil can do and feature more often.
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Thank the lord Man Utd were 2nd half thinking more about their derby game next week. They're nothing special but we did ourselves no favours.
I turned on our match in the second half and saw about ten minutes of it.
It was ten minutes consisting almost entirely of them passing the ball effortlessly around our players who seemed totally static - we actually looked like a load of pins in some form of pub game.
Then I turned it off.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
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Thank the lord Man Utd were 2nd half thinking more about their derby game next week. They're nothing special but we did ourselves no favours.
I turned on our match in the second half and saw about ten minutes of it.
It was ten minutes consisting almost entirely of them passing the ball effortlessly around our players who seemed totally static - we actually looked like a load of pins in some form of pub game.
Then I turned it off.
Wise.
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Benteke seems to be becoming an enigma. If you can't look interested playing at Old Trafford, it doesn't bode well for a game at Wembley. If he was a flat track bully I wouldn't mind, because that would put us in the driving seat for Tuesday, but you never know what you're going to get with him these days.
Ah well, as long as he takes his chances. I have confidence our defence is as good as we can expect now. Midfield still touch and go. Up front still needs a lot of work.
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More than anything, we need to start strongly and up and at em on Tuesday. Get the fans buzzing and we will win.
A laboured, safety first start will get the home crowd quiet and nerves will accumulate
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Hutton out for Tuesday.
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I reckon if Sherwood remains in charge then Gil's Villa career is over.
I think Sherwood prefers 100mph, Prem breed players, for better or worse.
Gil may turn it around in pre-season, but it's not looking good for him.
I think he prefers to have that sort of player now. He has said that the way he plays in trying to keep us up isn't how he would necessarily start the season. That said, it would be nice to see what Gil can do and feature more often.
Well I hope so. He played this way at Spurs and thus far with us. Of course ultimately it might not be his long term style. But we shall see.
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I almost get the impression that it has become a cultural thing at the club. The level of subservience we have seen vs the so called "big" teams is embarrassing. And then once in a while he'll pop out a stunning display and we all look round round scratch our heads and wonder why it has taken 5 years, and why the next win will take that long again. It will take a lot of surgery to change the mental state of the players. We need to stop thinking we are small and play to who we are. And should be. It is going to take this manager or whoever succeeds him, whenever that is time and a load of money.
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Baffling what's going on with Gil.
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What's frustrating is that it was so utterly predictable.
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Until he leaves Weimann somewhere east of palookaville I have zero confidence in Sherwood as any kind of top manager.
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I reckon if Sherwood remains in charge then Gil's Villa career is over.
I think Sherwood prefers 100mph, Prem breed players, for better or worse.
Gil may turn it around in pre-season, but it's not looking good for him.
I think he prefers to have that sort of player now. He has said that the way he plays in trying to keep us up isn't how he would necessarily start the season. That said, it would be nice to see what Gil can do and feature more often.
Well I hope so. He played this way at Spurs and thus far with us. Of course ultimately it might not be his long term style. But we shall see.
The difference at Spurs is even the "huffers and puffers" we're very expensively acquired and technically good players. They are for the most part a cut above the majority of what we have.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
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We could have played better than that. It's like we went expecting to lose so didn't bother trying.
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Sherwood had the right idea with the 4-4-2 - it's a good system to break with, because when you get it clear you have two targets to aim at. The trouble came when we had to chase the game, but oh well.
That said, I don't understand what Gil's done. If he's not ever going to play, why waste a space on the bench with him? If he might play, how does he manage to be behind Joe Cole and Leandro Bacuna for attacking roles every time, not to mention Weimann? I don't get it at all, and it's becoming a bit silly now.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Weimann was far and away our best attacker today. That unfortunately is pretty telling. Gabby, Zogbia but most of all Benteskey all looked like they couldn't give a toss. They seemed to have half a mind on their summer holiday destination.
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We could have played better than that. It's like we went expecting to lose so didn't bother trying.
I guess it helps when you have the ability to pass the ball to your own teammates, but Benteke, Gabby, Andi and CNZ make it look damn near impossible sometimes.
I said it in my first thread post but the anticipation was unacceptable today. Everything was reactionary and not proactive or aggressive. Professionals need to act and play like professionals. Can someone please find a statistic regarding the amount of turnovers we had.
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What I really hope is that we pull some unexpected result out of thin air, like an easy win against Tottenham, a la the Arsenal result in 2011. Just something that takes the pressure off early.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Weimann was far and away our best attacker today. That unfortunately is pretty telling. Gabby, Zogbia but most of all Benteskey all looked like they couldn't give a toss. They seemed to have half a mind on their summer holiday destination.
Please explain how is any way, shape or form Weimann was our best attacker? I did not see him beat a single defender off the dribble. I saw him turn the ball over at least 5 times. I watched him dribble out of bounds twice. Did he even cross a ball in? Did he have a shot? At least Benteke and Gabby put themselves in position to score.
He used to be my favorite player, now I want him gone.
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Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
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Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
Bacuna just isn't good enough at this level.
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Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
Definitely the most painful moment of the game for me. He almost deliberately passed it to a lone united player in the middle of the pitch and then Rooney's stroke of luck. Then Delph's late giveaway.. :-\
Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
Bacuna just isn't good enough at this level.
Disagree. He's still young and very versatile. He still has potential and he's proven he's able to play both sides of the ball.
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A lot of these players, I can't even imagine giving them away at the footballing equivalent of a jumble sale. When we're out of this period and competing again, you'll be astounded where some of this squad find their natural level.
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Too many players, Bacuna, Weimann, Sanchez, N'Zogbia & Lowton who are either not good enough or are not good enough when our backs are to the wall.
Massive game on Tuesday, must not lose. We won't get many more chances to pull away.
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Not surprised by todays result but the next game against QPR is massive.
Fuck the Albion.
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This is probably not the place but it is as good as any because TV said in his last sentence "whenever that is". For five years Aston Villa have got the timing of just about everything wrong. Look at our current situation. After five years or more of the club being as accessible as the Kremlin we now have leaks spouting in every direction that the club will be bought if we remain in the Premiership. How much are we expected to endure? Not just the agony of yet again hanging on the edge of the precipice but knowing that if we fall we are going to try to regain some sort of pride with the tired and worn out methods that got us here in the first place. I refer especially to the point covered that we have assumed a small club mind set and in awe of teams like the one we played today.
We got rid of Lambert nine months too late. We put the club on the market (it is widely believed) when there was a buyer in the wings, but that buyer did not come good and once again our timing is all to bollox. If we had got Sherwood (or anybody) at Christmas and given the incoming manager a transfer window we would be in with a fighting chance of avoiding the drop, but no, we are Aston Villa and we fart arse and fanny about with the future of the club and the fans have to put up with it. Sorry about the rant in probably the wrong place but I feel at the end of my tether, because. as has been said, it is all so bloody predictable.
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I did not expect anything but fuck it is still painful.
I missed the first 35 mins, so lucky me in time to see them score.
Why belabour the point but, I think all three goals came from us losing possession by the halfway mark, Bacuna, pass to a utd player, Delph getting thrust aide by Rooney and I am not sure who lost it on the right in a very sloppy challenge for the first.
I could go on but what the fuck, Bring on QPR.
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What's the news on Sinclair? Sorry if it's posted somewhere, I can't see it. Not surprised at how today turned out, we can't keep expecting the teams below to lose. Hoping the fans can generate an atmosphere like the Albion games and not flat like Swansea, it goes without saying this match is vital.
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When Weimann plays, it's like someone's golden retriever has escaped and come bounding onto the pitch.
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What's the news on Sinclair? Sorry if it's posted somewhere, I can't see it. Not surprised at how today turned out, we can't keep expecting the teams below to lose. Hoping the fans can generate an atmosphere like the Albion games and not flat like Swansea, it goes without saying this match is vital.
Sherwood said he's injured and it's touch and go for Tuesday, Westwood got injured in training yesterday and Hutton defo out for qpr.
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What's the news on Sinclair? Sorry if it's posted somewhere, I can't see it. Not surprised at how today turned out, we can't keep expecting the teams below to lose. Hoping the fans can generate an atmosphere like the Albion games and not flat like Swansea, it goes without saying this match is vital.
Sherwood said he's injured and it's touch and go for Tuesday, Westwood got injured in training yesterday and Hutton defo out for qpr.
Remarkably it seems like our injuries problems have got even worse.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
We had 23% possession and they should have had a penalty after three minutes
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When Weimann plays it is like the Official Receiver has come bounding on to the pitch.
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Seems like it's not a Victorian show-ground Villa Park sits on, it's a Native American burial ground.
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When Weimann plays, it's like someone's golden retriever has escaped and come bounding onto the pitch.
That made me smile which is something I haven't done very much today.
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When Weimann plays, it's like someone's golden retriever has escaped and come bounding onto the pitch.
I actually like his energy. If he had the ability to match it, we'd have a hell of a player.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
We had 23% possession and they should have had a penalty after three minutes
Agreed we were really poor and the ref was ok.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
To be fair if anything I thought we got a lot of the decisions, particularly the 50/50's in the first half.
On a positive note, it's refreshing to see us score from a corner.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/DeadlyFluidDog.gif)
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When Weimann plays it is like the Official Receiver has come bounding on to the pitch.
Unfortunately Benteke and Agbonlahor played like something said retriever buried in the back yard. I half expected the undertakers to come out on the pitch and drag them off by the heels at times.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
To be fair if anything I thought we got a lot of the decisions, particularly the 50/50's in the first half.
On a positive note, it's refreshing to see us score from a corner.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/DeadlyFluidDog.gif)
I found it quite amusing that we actually scored from a corner as thoroughly shite as that one (and to the standard of the day).
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Bacuna is good going forward. Should have had an assist. Bad mistake though.
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I watched the Rooney goal, and it was good; not world class though. It's what you pay three hundred grand a week for. But I had that sinking feeling straight after the final whistle last Tuesday: Villa at Old Trafford. Same old, same old.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
We had 23% possession and they should have had a penalty after three minutes
We were shit, but no way was that a penalty.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Pretty much how he's been for 4 years.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
And yet the national media, including radio 5 today talk of him as some influential player
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Rooney, like the other England strikers, don't seem to have the knack of being in the right place at the right time. They have technique and fitness but it seems like hard work for them to get their goals. Contrast with someone like Muller or Benzema, who seem like they barely break sweat. The attribute is awareness, of course; we have strikers who run all day but don't ever think that a world class defender might anticipate the rather pedestrian run an English striker makes. It's the international equivalent of watching a Weimann or an Agnbonlahor against a half decent defence like Everton's or Swansea's.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
And yet the national media, including radio 5 today talk of him as some influential player
When he plays well, the teams does. The problem is it only happens a few times a season.
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Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
Definitely the most painful moment of the game for me. He almost deliberately passed it to a lone united player in the middle of the pitch and then Rooney's stroke of luck. Then Delph's late giveaway.. :-\
Bacuna's error that led to the second goal summed us up. No professional footballer at the top level should make a mistake like that.
Bacuna just isn't good enough at this level.
Disagree. He's still young and very versatile. He still has potential and he's proven he's able to play both sides of the ball.
He is rubbish with a capital R. Always has been, always will be. The occasional free kick masks a very poor player. He is nearly 24 so he is hardly young and unlikely to improve
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Weimann was far and away our best attacker today. That unfortunately is pretty telling. Gabby, Zogbia but most of all Benteskey all looked like they couldn't give a toss. They seemed to have half a mind on their summer holiday destination.
Please explain how is any way, shape or form Weimann was our best attacker? I did not see him beat a single defender off the dribble. I saw him turn the ball over at least 5 times. I watched him dribble out of bounds twice. Did he even cross a ball in? Did he have a shot? At least Benteke and Gabby put themselves in position to score.
He used to be my favorite player, now I want him gone.
Set up a really good chance for Benteke, got a yellow out of Roja for the freekick that Okore should have equalised from. Worked hard apart from that. He isnt top division standard but wasnt bad today. At least put a shift in unlike Benteke, Gabby and Nzogbia who were again individually and collectively a disgrace to the shirt today.
Was happy with our central defenders again today. Thought Sanchez in the main had a decent game, Fellaini wasnt much of a factor anyway. Let Herrera get away from him for the third alright and Sanchez really needs to improve his stamina in pre-season. Delph third goal aside did pretty well too. Apart from that, we were poor all over the pitch and looked a beaten side from early on. Stupid substitutions from Sherwood didnt help matters.
As many of you have said, today was a reality check re the quality of our players and arguably our manager. Lowton, Weimann, Nzogbia, Gabby, Cole - five players for starters that we could do without starting next season.
United were fairly poor in the second half. Would have only taken a bit of gumption to have got a result. Antonio Valencia continues to steal a living at Old Trafford. Young got on loads of ball but is very predictable.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Not so sure about that. Would like to see the breakdown of his goals for England in terms of who they have come against.
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When Weimann plays, it's like someone's golden retriever has escaped and come bounding onto the pitch.
Playing him, Gabby and Benteke together has never worked 95% of the time. Lambert tried it ad nauseum.
Add Charlie into the mix and you have a very mediocre front 4.
As others have said not giving Jack and Gil ( aka Jack and Jill ) a game is crazy.
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When our forwards come in for criticism I always wonder what service they received from midfield. Did our midfield create anything worthwhile for them today?
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Not so sure about that. Would like to see the breakdown of his goals for England in terms of who they have come against.
Why is that going to be different to any other England striker?
Shearer, Greaves, Charlton and Lineker didn't score all of theirs against Germany, Italy and Brazil.
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As expected - we never got close enough to them all day .
Same as almost every other visit for the past 20 yrs
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The outcome was as expected really. Shame about the qpr and Leicester results,just hope sunderland and burnley loose tomorrow. Nervous for Tuesday already!!!!!
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Not so sure about that. Would like to see the breakdown of his goals for England in terms of who they have come against.
Why is that going to be different to any other England striker?
Shearer, Greaves, Charlton and Lineker didn't score all of theirs against Germany, Italy and Brazil.
Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
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Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
Some of Charlton's goals were in the 19-1 total score across two friendlies with the United States in the 50s and 60s. Others in the 9-0 against Luxembourg, 8-0 against Mexico and 8-1 against Switzerland suggest that there were teams every bit as poor back then as there are now.
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Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
Some of Charlton's goals were in the 19-1 total score across two friendlies with the United States in the 50s and 60s. Others in the 9-0 against Luxembourg, 8-0 against Mexico and 8-1 against Switzerland suggest that there were teams every bit as poor back then as there are now.
That's six in almost 15 years. You can play that many in every tournament now.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Weimann was far and away our best attacker today. That unfortunately is pretty telling. Gabby, Zogbia but most of all Benteskey all looked like they couldn't give a toss. They seemed to have half a mind on their summer holiday destination.
Please explain how is any way, shape or form Weimann was our best attacker? I did not see him beat a single defender off the dribble. I saw him turn the ball over at least 5 times. I watched him dribble out of bounds twice. Did he even cross a ball in? Did he have a shot? At least Benteke and Gabby put themselves in position to score.
He used to be my favorite player, now I want him gone.
Well he did set up that good chance for Benteke but that was the only thing he did. The transformation in him is astounding, and it's a real pity.
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I didn't see the game so can't comment on the performance, when you look at the other results though we really are in the thick of it.
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I don't agree that we were so woeful.
Against a team much stronger than us, we defended quite well without renouncing to counter attack, and at the end of the day we created much more goal occasions than we used to do in the Lambert era.
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Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
Some of Charlton's goals were in the 19-1 total score across two friendlies with the United States in the 50s and 60s. Others in the 9-0 against Luxembourg, 8-0 against Mexico and 8-1 against Switzerland suggest that there were teams every bit as poor back then as there are now.
That's six in almost 15 years. You can play that many in every tournament now.
Six what?
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Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
Some of Charlton's goals were in the 19-1 total score across two friendlies with the United States in the 50s and 60s. Others in the 9-0 against Luxembourg, 8-0 against Mexico and 8-1 against Switzerland suggest that there were teams every bit as poor back then as there are now.
That's six in almost 15 years. You can play that many in every tournament now.
Six what?
Sorry, five, which is even stronger proof.
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Yes but look at the third world nature of our euro group. There were some poor teams around in the 60s and 70s but not as many as now
Some of Charlton's goals were in the 19-1 total score across two friendlies with the United States in the 50s and 60s. Others in the 9-0 against Luxembourg, 8-0 against Mexico and 8-1 against Switzerland suggest that there were teams every bit as poor back then as there are now.
That's six in almost 15 years. You can play that many in every tournament now.
Six what?
Sorry, five, which is even stronger proof.
It's eleven of his 49 goals though. We could then add his six goals in total against Northern Ireland and five against both Wales and Scotland who England played against pretty much every year, unlike now.
I reckon that about nine of Charlton's goals were against teams that one would consider to be strong opposition. That doesn't mean that his goals were meaningless, it just means that like every striker who has scored lots of goals some were against good opposition and some weren't. Just like Rooney's are.
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Actually thought we did ok in the most part. You just get no decisions at OT, Rooney dive and dissent, holding up play at the end. The refs are too scared to give decisions against them.
Tuesday massive though.
To be fair if anything I thought we got a lot of the decisions, particularly the 50/50's in the first half.
On a positive note, it's refreshing to see us score from a corner.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/DeadlyFluidDog.gif)
I found it quite amusing that we actually scored from a corner as thoroughly shite as that one (and to the standard of the day).
Our 20th league goal of the season. At least we're not going to break Derby's all time low record.
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There are still more games against weaker sides now than before. Gibraltar, San Marino, assorted ex-Balkan and Soviet states.
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We have to start playing Carles Gil. Trouble is, he's had no game time recently.
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We have to start playing Carles Gil. Trouble is, he's had no game time recently.
Thing is though, if Sherwood is willing to run the risk of playing someone like N'Zogbia (who shows good flashes but turns the ball over often and doesn't track back) why not give Gil a go?
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The most predictable fixture in the wide and wonderless world of sport. Next.
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Gabby was fucking awful today.
Weimann was far and away our best attacker today. That unfortunately is pretty telling. Gabby, Zogbia but most of all Benteskey all looked like they couldn't give a toss. They seemed to have half a mind on their summer holiday destination.
Please explain how is any way, shape or form Weimann was our best attacker? I did not see him beat a single defender off the dribble. I saw him turn the ball over at least 5 times. I watched him dribble out of bounds twice. Did he even cross a ball in? Did he have a shot? At least Benteke and Gabby put themselves in position to score.
He used to be my favorite player, now I want him gone.
Well he did set up that good chance for Benteke but that was the only thing he did. The transformation in him is astounding, and it's a real pity.
He had that one run. He also got passed their left back another time and won a good freekick.
He also looked like he had a pulse.
That for me was far more than the other two wasters to be perfectly honest. One flick of a leg aside, Benteke was an abomination today. Gabby was non-existent.
Weimann is shit but at the very least he tries.
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Therein lies our problem. Our players are so prone to bad games that we think a player who tries is somehow special where in reality he is only better than players who make no effort at all. We have too many low quality players in our squad I am afraid.
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Therein lies our problem. Our players are so prone to bad games that we think a player who tries is somehow special where in reality he is only better than players who make no effort at all. We have too many low quality players in our squad I am afraid.
That is definitely (and painfully) true.
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There are still more games against weaker sides now than before. Gibraltar, San Marino, assorted ex-Balkan and Soviet states.
The weaker sides of yesterday are the stronger sides of today. Charlton was able to score thrice against Switzerland in an 8-0 win, doesn't mean that it was just as easy for Rooney to score twice against them in a 3-0 win. The USA team that England beat 10-0 was probably not as good as the one that England drew 1-1 with.
Rooney has never had the chance to play teams giving up 10-0, 9-1 and 8-0 scorelines. That suggests to me that there were a lot of very easy games back then.
Anyway, this is getting a bit far from today's result.
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To try to be an honest broker in this good mannered mini dispute, having seen both Rooney and Charlton in their prime for me Charlton will always be the "better" striker because his goals were often spectacularly violent. Wasn't it against Uruguay in 66 when we had not scored in the competition and he leathered one in with the velocity of an Excocet missile and the whole nation let out a collective gasp of national relief. I wonder if we shall ever see another English Thunderboots. Certainly not Candy Kane.
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I pointed out on the match thread that Nzogbia is woeful. I received contradictory responses. But I take no pleasure in saying I was right. A really bad choice for this match as Tim agreed when he got fed up with waiting for Charlie to do what he was told and subbed him.
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Just back from the game. Pathetic insipid performance.
We looked like a mid - table side in late April on the beach which is unforgivable . No spirit, no fight, no tactics. It was like Lambert was back in the dugout.
Utd won't have an easier afternoon until they play us again.
Sanchez is a dreadfully slow player at this level , lowton had a shocker, Delph looked fucked.
Not a happy bunny after that waste of time and money.
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The Uruguay result was scoreless Brian, I think the Charlton thunderbolt you speak of was against Mexico. I could be wrong...again!
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To try to be an honest broker in this good mannered mini dispute, having seen both Rooney and Charlton in their prime for me Charlton will always be the "better" striker because his goals were often spectacularly violent.
Don't worry - I'm not suggesting that Rooney is better.
Just trying to add a bit of context to the implication that Charlton's were all important goals in major tournaments whereas Rooney's were all against a bunch of irrelevant no-hopers. When in actual fact they were both a bit of both.
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The Uruguay result was scoreless Brian, I think the Charlton thunderbolt you speak of was against Mexico. I could be wrong...again!
I think you're right Dave, and he scored a similar one against Portugal in the semi-final?
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I pointed out on the match thread that Nzogbia is woeful. I received contradictory responses. But I take no pleasure in saying I was right. A really bad choice for this match as Tim agreed when he got fed up with waiting for Charlie to do what he was told and subbed him.
Agree entirely. CNZ is useless and lazy and always has been. I saw the responses on the match thread saying he'd been our best player recently. Well the 2nd half in the Albion cup game plus Sunderland away, yes he was good. But that's just one and a half games.
Similar with Gabby. Looked like he was finished a month or so ago. Had 2 or 3 good games to buy himself more time. Now back to being shit again.
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You are correct Dave, I suspected it might be that way round but it has been a long hard day. Funny how these two icons both have famous hair, Rooney for having a pate that looks like a poundstretcher coconut doormat and Bobby for giving the world the combover which will be remembered generations after everybody has forgotten he ever kicked a football. I think he should have got an Arts Council grant for the latter stages of his coiffure when one long strand was criss crossed over his skull to create the impression of hairyness. Such a bloody boring man though to be immortal for any reason.
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Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
have a look at the opposition for the majority of those goals. How many goals has he scored when it really mattered and against the big nations. Rooney is typical of how over rated this league is. He wouldn't last 5 minutes in Spain or Italy.
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Interesting that was Yanited's highest attendance of the season. Funny it was always like that back in the day when villa came to town.
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Just back from the game. Pathetic insipid performance.
We looked like a mid - table side in late April on the beach which is unforgivable . No spirit, no fight, no tactics. It was like Lambert was back in the dugout.
Utd won't have an easier afternoon until they play us again.
Sanchez is a dreadfully slow player at this level , lowton had a shocker, Delph looked fucked.
Not a happy bunny after that waste of time and money.
Fair play to you going.
I listened to the radio 5 commentary and it seemed we were poor
I wonder if Tim's initial impetus has already worn off.
Tuesday is massive
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Rooney is typical of how over rated this league is. He wouldn't last 5 minutes in Spain or Italy.
Massimo Maccarone is still scoring nearly a goal every other game in Serie A at the moment at the age of 35. I reckon Rooney would just about cope.
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Just back from the game. Pathetic insipid performance.
We looked like a mid - table side in late April on the beach which is unforgivable . No spirit, no fight, no tactics. It was like Lambert was back in the dugout.
Utd won't have an easier afternoon until they play us again.
Sanchez is a dreadfully slow player at this level , lowton had a shocker, Delph looked fucked.
Not a happy bunny after that waste of time and money.
Fair play to you going.
I listened to the radio 5 commentary and it seemed we were poor
I wonder if Tim's initial impetus has already worn off.
Tuesday is massive
Even sherwoods body language didn't look great today. Seemed to be suited and booted today rather than the tracksuit and trainers look. I really didn't understand his tactics or subs at all today.
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There's a church in Dublin called St Miichans, in Fishamble Street. It has two claims to fame the first being that the first performance of Handel's Messiah was held there.
The second, and relative to Bobby Charlton, is that the bodies in the underground crypts are mummified due to the phenomena of temperature maintaining 56 degrees F all the year round. There are guided tours and, when we went we saw several of the deceased and it was very noticeable that amongst other things, finger nails and hair was still intact. Due to the fact that hair is still in evidence centuries later, I suggest this is where Bobby Charlton should be laid to rest. His hair would still be a highly popular topic of conversation long after his footballing exploits have been forgotten. Perhaps Jack could have a word.
Back to the first claim to fame, the keyboard of the organ upon which the Messiah recital was played is still on display. The place is well worth a visit.
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Just back from the game. Pathetic insipid performance.
We looked like a mid - table side in late April on the beach which is unforgivable . No spirit, no fight, no tactics. It was like Lambert was back in the dugout.
Utd won't have an easier afternoon until they play us again.
Sanchez is a dreadfully slow player at this level , lowton had a shocker, Delph looked fucked.
Not a happy bunny after that waste of time and money.
Fair play to you going.
I listened to the radio 5 commentary and it seemed we were poor
I wonder if Tim's initial impetus has already worn off.
Tuesday is massive
Even sherwoods body language didn't look great today. Seemed to be suited and booted today rather than the tracksuit and trainers look. I really didn't understand his tactics or subs at all today.
Playing those 3 up Front maybe he is morphing into Lambert already
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When they bought Falcao on we at the same time introduced Joe Cole.
If it wasn't so terribly sad it would be funny.
But it isn't.
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When they bought Falcao on we at the same time introduced Joe Cole.
If it wasn't so terribly sad it would be funny.
But it isn't.
Have you ever smiled at anything in your life?
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
Actually he sliced a volley into the stretford.
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
Actually he sliced a volley into the stretford.
Whereas Joe Cole set up our goal.
How terribly sad indeed.
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
Actually he sliced a volley into the stretford.
Whereas Joe Cole set up our goal.
How terribly sad indeed.
Yeah it was a brilliant corner.
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I would like to go to that place next time I am in Dublin Dave but I would be too embarrassed to ask the way not knowing how to say either the name of the church or the street. Like in Cambridge the tourists all hope to catch a glimpse of Stephen Hawkin getting out of his grey van and going into Gonville and Caius. I try not to titter when they ask. Some Japanese tourists asked my wife the way to Harryfax. Being a clever and helpful woman she pointed up the A10 down the A14 up the A1(M) for two hundred miles. No, they shouted. Harryfax Bank!
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Rooney is typical of how over rated this league is. He wouldn't last 5 minutes in Spain or Italy.
Massimo Maccarone is still scoring nearly a goal every other game in Serie A at the moment at the age of 35. I reckon Rooney would just about cope.
I'm talking about playing for the top clubs, not a yo-yo outfit like Empoli. I agree Rooney could probably bag a few in relegation 6 pointer or dead rubber fixtures.
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Rooney's a good player, he will score goals in most sides, good midfielder too.
Thought the Ref did well today to wave away that after 3 mins. I've seen them given at OT.
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Rooney's a good player, he will score goals in most sides, good midfielder too.
Thought the Ref did well today to wave away that after 3 mins. I've seen them given at OT.
WM were making out it was a nailed on penalty.
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
Can we have him then? :)
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Falcao did nothing. He's done virtually nothing all season and he doesn't want to be there. In fact he's done nothing of note since 'Rock Me Amadeus.'
Can we have him then? :)
If you ask the new owners nicely.
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Rooney's a good player, he will score goals in most sides, good midfielder too.
Thought the Ref did well today to wave away that after 3 mins. I've seen them given at OT.
WM were making out it was a nailed on penalty.
My initial thought was pen and a straight red.
I'd need to see it again. The Ref did well for us there.
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Weimann running around like a dog on heat with about as much skill in controlling the football, Benteke leading the line with as much gusto as Larry Grayson, Waddle on radio 5 referring to our keeper as Guzman, QPR winning, that sinking feeling that Sherwood can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, it has not been a good day at the office.
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Sherwood' stats are taking s battering. 6 games, 4 losses.
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Sherwood's demeanour was noticeably different between the BBC interview with Alan Twat and AVTV's Alan Partridge. In the OS talk, he sulked like a fan on a trudge from his seat in the Holte to a sorrow drowning pint in The Holte Suite, barely able to answer Woodward's hardly challenging questions. I hope he can pick himself and the players up very quickly, because QPR are cock-a-hoop tonight.
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Expected result.
Some more strange team selections. Again playing 4 out and out attacking against one of the best midfields in the league on current form.
QPR is massive.
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No surprise with the result, just a shame the Albion have for the 3rd year rolled over against relegation rivals. I'd love to see them dragged back into it.
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Expected result.
Some more strange team selections. Again playing 4 out and out attacking against one of the best midfields in the league on current form.
QPR is massive.
In his defence, cleverly was ineligible , westwood injured, Cole can only last 10 mins.
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First time in the away end at Old Trafford, still don't think much of the place. The size of it is impressive, but it's just so dull.
Really annoyed about Gil never getting a game. He looked like our best chance of a goal when Lambert was here, I don't understand what Sherwood is thinking with that.
The criticism Benteke receives is way over the top. He won a few flick ons today, it's not his fault Agbonlahor stood still every time.
Joe Cole, what is the point? He's completely finished at this level. Took two of the worst corners ever and we somehow managed to score from one!
Result was expected, disappointed with our performances. Tuesday is a must win.
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Rooney's a good player, he will score goals in most sides, good midfielder too.
Thought the Ref did well today to wave away that after 3 mins. I've seen them given at OT.
WM were making out it was a nailed on penalty.
My initial thought was pen and a straight red.
I'd need to see it again. The Ref did well for us there.
Initially I thought it was a penalty, but after seeing it a second time Ciaran's hand around Rooney's shoulder would never be a cause for both of his feet to fall out from under him and topple over. If he would've cut the theatrics he probably would've gotten the pen but the fact the he milked it sent the wrong message to the referee.
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Expected result.
Some more strange team selections. Again playing 4 out and out attacking against one of the best midfields in the league on current form.
QPR is massive.
In his defence, cleverly was ineligible , westwood injured, Cole can only last 10 mins.
I would've put Bacuna maybe on the right of midfield.
Leo isn't always great there with his wayward passing but he can make things happen going forward as we saw up Sunderland and could tuck in when neccesary aswell.
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Expected result.
Some more strange team selections. Again playing 4 out and out attacking against one of the best midfields in the league on current form.
QPR is massive.
In his defence, cleverly was ineligible , westwood injured, Cole can only last 10 mins.
I would've put Bacuna maybe on the right of midfield.
Leo isn't always great there with his wayward passing but he can make things happen going forward as we saw up Sunderland and could tuck in when neccesary aswell.
Bacuna bugs the hell out of me. Sometimes he looks a player. The goal against Leicester, and his display against Sunderland. But more often he looks like he's seen a football for the first time in his life. He miscontrolled horribly a few times today in midfield which put paid to what could have been promising breaks. Then of course his stray pass lead to one of their goals.
I'd honestly cut my losses on him. Cash in. Someone will give us enough to turn a tidy profit on him. I've had enough of hoping in vain that certain players will develop into Premiership players. But clearly they won't. If you take Bacuna over a 10 game stretch he'll maybe have one good game, look okay in another 2 but he'll look like Ali Dia for the other 7.
If I had my way there'd be a shit load of foot traffic around the out door this summer. And some of them would be getting kicks up the backside on their way out. (Not Bacuna mind you, efforts not been his problem). The vast majority of our squad are absolutely stealing a living.
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Something massive needs to change at the club.
A complete step change.
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Something massive needs to change at the club.
A complete step change.
Certainly in my time, the squad Lambert assembled in the last two seasons has seen the most concentrated collection of just godawdul players we've ever had. I mean every squad will have duffers every year, but the sheer amount of really atrociously bad footballers we've got on our books is shocking. Even down to the basics, some of the players look 2-3 leagues above the level they should be playing.
If you look at the levels some of the players we've loaned out are playing, like Sylla and Luna, and the fact they're struggling, it really says a lot.
Tonev as well. All controversy aside, is so hideously far from being Premiership quality it defies logic that we ever signed him.
Then this summer Lambert went a different route and appeared to be buying middle of the road players from a 10 year old copy of Pro Evo. But in reality we got 3 players well past their shelf life.
He came in promising passing, progressive football. Then signed players who couldn't trap a ball or pass it 5 yards to a team-mate.
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Time is up isn't it. Since MON went and Randy turned the tap off, others have spent and improved whilst we have been asset stripped.
Lerner has a lot to answer for.
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Disappointed today that we didn't close them down like we did to the stripeyfilth in those two games. I thought we were poor overall to be honest. He needed to change it further up the field before he actually did.
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Just got in, over 15 hours since setting out. Was it worth it? Well, you accept that you can lose a game against a team with such a strong home record and I don't think I'd have minded too much if we'd lost with honour. But we disappointed in all sorts of ways: the team selection, the tactics, the performance of several players, the lack of fighting spirit. We were particularly poor going forward. The midfield gave the strikers little too work with - was there a single decisive pass? - and the few chances that Benteke and Gabby created or were given were wasted. As for Weimann - he runs around a lot and tries hard, but he's just not up to it. I was very surprised that he was kept on for so long.
We talk about the lack of quality in the squad. I've got no time at all for Ashley Young, but I do wish we had someone with his ability and vision. I think he made more decent crosses in one game than we've managed all season.
Were there any positives? I've seen us play worse at Old Trafford and we didn't surrender as we sometimes have in the past. Clark and particularly Okore impressed and we generally defended well. Lowton had a decent game. There were a few good touches from Delph. But overall Villa just didn't give enough, in terms of quality or of commitment.
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If I see any more "qpr/ Tuesday is massive now" comments I think I'll implode.
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Is enormous bigger than massive ?
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I just don't get why he would pick Weimann, he has not done a thing all season can't tackle can't pass all he does well is wave his arms around, he brings nothing to the team.
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I was in a hospitality box as a birthday present, so that probably hexed us.
I honestly think that we were conserving energy for the QPR game. First time in 50 years of watching us that I thought this to be the case.
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I just don't get why he would pick Weimann, he has not done a thing all season can't tackle can't pass all he does well is wave his arms around, he brings nothing to the team.
That's his best "move"
The off the ball run to abrupt jumping stop/arms in the air with his thumbs under his longsleeve.
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I thought we were ok. Not shit, not great. Missed the first 10 mins and the 'penalty' incident. Yes we were outplayed for long periods in the first half, but they only had a couple of chances and didn't really look like scoring up until when they did. Thought we broke well a few times and had we taken our chances, could also have had 3 goals. The missed header and the off balance Benteke skier could both have gone in at other grounds than old Trafford. What I find depressing is that this is not a good Utd side, yet we still fucking end up losing 3-1. Hate to say it, but thought Young was probably man of the match today. Caused us lots of problems and will likely think himself unlucky not to score.
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Double post- sorry
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Just got in, over 15 hours since setting out. Was it worth it? Well, you accept that you can lose a game against a team with such a strong home record and I don't think I'd have minded too much if we'd lost with honour. But we disappointed in all sorts of ways: the team selection, the tactics, the performance of several players, the lack of fighting spirit. We were particularly poor going forward. The midfield gave the strikers little too work with - was there a single decisive pass? - and the few chances that Benteke and Gabby created or were given were wasted. As for Weimann - he runs around a lot and tries hard, but he's just not up to it. I was very surprised that he was kept on for so long.
We talk about the lack of quality in the squad. I've got no time at all for Ashley Young, but I do wish we had someone with his ability and vision. I think he made more decent crosses in one game than we've managed all season.
Were there any positives? I've seen us play worse at Old Trafford and we didn't surrender as we sometimes have in the past. Clark and particularly Okore impressed and we generally defended well. Lowton had a decent game. There were a few good touches from Delph. But overall Villa just didn't give enough, in terms of quality or of commitment.
frank- agree with you about Ashley young, but I thought Lowton was way out of his depth today.
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Young put in about 3 or 4 decent crosses then after that all the rest were of a poor standard, either straight to Guzan or out of play.
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Well the normal result at the shite hole that is Mold Trafford, can see what Sherwood was looking for, Wieman in as an extra midfielder to give some energy, as there was no Cleverly, he wanted to play a pressing game, but our players just did not respond, Sherwwod also needs to look at alternatives to the pressing game against the good teams, top 5 ,6, it works against alot of teams as they need one or two seconds to decide what to do, but the good teams with good players do it straight away without thinking.
To put a bit of balance on the game , result, they brought on Di Maria and Falcao, 107 million pounds worth of talent, another 43 mill and you can buy a Prem football club all it's assets and a nice country mansion as well. FFP my arse.
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I remember the time when you could guarantee an Ashley young cross would be pin point and that a free anywhere from around the box was even money the goal. We had the best of him he was a shadow of that player when he left and he has not come close since.
We went to play for the draw and hoped to get lucky once the goal went in all focus will have shifted to Tuesday. We don't have the players to compete with utd Tuesday ia what it's all about, its a test of Sherwood as much as the players.
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Fair post- if still rather him play for us than them though, transfer fee aside.
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Another Sunday morning. Another black mood. I suspect that the Sherwood gamble is yet more reactive throwing of the dice by the Villa hierarchy. There is a pattern to the collapse into our present position of acceptance that we will lose to Manchester United. The pattern is quick fixes. Wasting money on an obscene scale? Let MON flounce out. Signed a sick manager? Pay him off and get a healthy one. Manager stinking the place out and on the brink of relegation? Get another one who does the same. Losing money? Buy kids, rejects and bargain basement hopefuls. Cheap kids not delivering Premiership performances? Buy worn out old has beens. Manager an incoherent, uncommunicative dullard? Replace him with a cheeky chappie.
Ever since Ellis sold the club we have had this chopping and changing, this finger in the dyke, let's try something different approach where there needed to be the establishment of a club ethos and core values.
The buck stops with Randy Lerner because, despite the non football good he undoubtedly has done, his absentee, hands off, I love the club, I want to sell the club unpredictability is the root cause of our muddle and our slide.
We have become like a family in a car going on holiday that can't decide whether they want to go to Blackpool, Rhyl, Alton Towers or Skegness and finish up spending a fortnight at Hilton Services.
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Brian I echo your sentiments. And today could get a whole lot worse if results go against us.
Oh and I'd choose Skegness. Nicer fish n chips.
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The worst thing about the teams performance yesterday?
It was disheartening. Very disheartening.
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We did something we have not done at Old Trafford for a good while and that's stayed in the game for 90 minutes.
We weren't good and we weren't poor and that combination would always likely see us beaten. We defended well in the main, but afforded them too much time to get the ball into the box, which in the main we manfully defended, but we're wasteful on the ball.
We did create a brilliant chance for Benteke which he should have burried, while they had chances themselves, not that I would say Guzan was particularly over worked. We maintained the habit of conceding in the dying stages with their first, while Bacuna giving the ball away for their second was annoying.
They have the referee to credit for the third, letting referee Rooney bully him into have the drop ball become contested because another Man United player feigned injury while we were in possession.
Rooney is a diving cheat and how he escaped a booking, I have no idea.
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Excellent summarisation of our Club's position Brian. It's just sad sad sad.
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Sherwood' stats are taking s battering. 6 games, 4 losses.
You are forgetting the cup victory
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Sherwood has made very little difference. Chances are that we would have been in no worse/better position if the other chap was still here.
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Another Sunday morning. Another black mood. I suspect that the Sherwood gamble is yet more reactive throwing of the dice by the Villa hierarchy. There is a pattern to the collapse into our present position of acceptance that we will lose to Manchester United. The pattern is quick fixes. Wasting money on an obscene scale? Let MON flounce out. Signed a sick manager? Pay him off and get a healthy one. Manager stinking the place out and on the brink of relegation? Get another one who does the same. Losing money? Buy kids, rejects and bargain basement hopefuls. Cheap kids not delivering Premiership performances? Buy worn out old has beens. Manager an incoherent, uncommunicative dullard? Replace him with a cheeky chappie.
Ever since Ellis sold the club we have had this chopping and changing, this finger in the dyke, let's try something different approach where there needed to be the establishment of a club ethos and core values.
The buck stops with Randy Lerner because, despite the non football good he undoubtedly has done, his absentee, hands off, I love the club, I want to sell the club unpredictability is the root cause of our muddle and our slide.
We have become like a family in a car going on holiday that can't decide whether they want to go to Blackpool, Rhyl, Alton Towers or Skegness and finish up spending a fortnight at Hilton Services.
Agreed
I dont like the analogy of Blackpool given where they are heading as a football team
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No surprise with the result, just a shame the Albion have for the 3rd year rolled over against relegation rivals. I'd love to see them dragged back into it.
Pubis teams do do this. Get into lead against his team and win go a goal down and struggle to get anything out of the match. I am pleased they have him.
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TSM1 and 2 have assembled a squad that is not good enough. That is the brutal truth which confronts us. It is not as simple as saying this player is rubbish and that player is rubbish. Virtually all of them have deep rooted shortcomings. That is why we get odd great performances when all the players click and massive periods when they don't. A top level player on dozens of thousands of pounds a week has to be a total player. They have to have their heads right, their bodies right, the whole package. Take Christian Benteke a vital player for us, he is going straight through the trap door marked "one season wonder", and Gabby drifting in and out of games, Guzan's inability to kick with his right foot, Weimann's rages, N'Zogbia's lack of consistency, Vlaar's injuries, Bacuna's inability to tackle, Sanchez slowness of thought. The list goes on and on. Collectively the squad has too many flawed players. Good coaching should be able to correct some of it but when did we last have good coaches?
When Stylian took a pass in midfield he would start to turn, looking for the right pass and shielding the ball. Sanchez takes a pass, sets himself and loses the ball. These infuriating shortcomings run through the whole squad.
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Sherwood has made very little difference. Chances are that we would have been in no worse/better position if the other chap was still here.
I very much doubt we would have gone to Sunderland and beaten them by 4,
we never looked like scoring one with Lambo, we even scored yesterday even if we were shit
I think our goalscoring stats since Sherwoods appointment suggests that we have improved in that department, and that's the department that will keep us up if we do stay up
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Sherwood has made very little difference. Chances are that we would have been in no worse/better position if the other chap was still here.
Don't think Lambert would have got victories against the stripe filth to be honest
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Another Sunday morning. Another black mood. I suspect that the Sherwood gamble is yet more reactive throwing of the dice by the Villa hierarchy. There is a pattern to the collapse into our present position of acceptance that we will lose to Manchester United. The pattern is quick fixes. Wasting money on an obscene scale? Let MON flounce out. Signed a sick manager? Pay him off and get a healthy one. Manager stinking the place out and on the brink of relegation? Get another one who does the same. Losing money? Buy kids, rejects and bargain basement hopefuls. Cheap kids not delivering Premiership performances? Buy worn out old has beens. Manager an incoherent, uncommunicative dullard? Replace him with a cheeky chappie.
Ever since Ellis sold the club we have had this chopping and changing, this finger in the dyke, let's try something different approach where there needed to be the establishment of a club ethos and core values.
The buck stops with Randy Lerner because, despite the non football good he undoubtedly has done, his absentee, hands off, I love the club, I want to sell the club unpredictability is the root cause of our muddle and our slide.
We have become like a family in a car going on holiday that can't decide whether they want to go to Blackpool, Rhyl, Alton Towers or Skegness and finish up spending a fortnight at Hilton Services.
Spot on. We're the footballing embodiment of our owner: whimsical, unthinking and uncommitted.
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We may have scraped a 1-0 at Sunderland under Lambert. I doubt we would have scored v anyone else.
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It's another week where I hold Lerner totally responsible and accountable for the mess. Rumours of deals being done and sherwood being shown the door, and not one iota of comment from our owner 4000 miles away. Gross negligence.
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In short, Lerner has been the absolute shining example of how not to operate the footballing side of a football club. In 7 years his decision making gets progressively worse year on year.
McGrath help us if we can't seal a deal to sell in the Summer if this fool at the helm. Can you imagine what 10 years of Lerner might look like!
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Sherwood has made very little difference. Chances are that we would have been in no worse/better position if the other chap was still here.
I think we stand a good chance of staying up under Sherwood, for some reason I think we'll be ok.
I thought we were stone cold certainties for the drop under PL. Quite a difference from where I was.
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How can you say that the situation is the same that with Paul Lambert?
With Lambert we were relegated, we didn't score and neither we created chances or play something that you could name football.
Sherwood doesn't have the magic wound but has won two crucial games and with him the team creates chances (yesterday Benteke missed a goal done by the goal) and scores at least one gol every game.
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I thought we were ok. Not shit, not great. Missed the first 10 mins and the 'penalty' incident. Yes we were outplayed for long periods in the first half, but they only had a couple of chances and didn't really look like scoring up until when they did. Thought we broke well a few times and had we taken our chances, could also have had 3 goals. The missed header and the off balance Benteke skier could both have gone in at other grounds than old Trafford. What I find depressing is that this is not a good Utd side, yet we still fucking end up losing 3-1. Hate to say it, but thought Young was probably man of the match today. Caused us lots of problems and will likely think himself unlucky not to score.
Agree, apart from the fact that I think that we encountered one of the best United squads of this season.
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You are absolutely correct Sil. Villa Park has been run like the Kremlin for five years or more. Now we need a period of silence and focus on helping the new manager save us there are leaks gushing out of B6 which do serious damage to frail morale.
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How can you say that the situation is the same that with Paul Lambert?
With Lambert we were relegated, we didn't score and neither we created chances or play something that you could name football.
Sherwood doesn't have the magic wound but has won two crucial games and with him the team creates chances (yesterday Benteke missed a goal done by the goal) and scores at least one gol every game.
Yes you can't blame Sherwood for this squad and some players have improved under him and some are still in comfort pick up wages mode.
I've heard there is a massive clear out in summer and we need ,
I think only guzan , Delphi , Clark and Hutton have been ok this season and keep okore and benteke , the rest can go for me .
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It's another week where I hold Lerner totally responsible and accountable for the mess. Rumours of deals being done and sherwood being shown the door, and not one iota of comment from our owner 4000 miles away. Gross negligence.
You can't expect the club to comment on every bit of rumour the newspapers decide to print.
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The problem I have with the latest Lerner bashing is that his name wasn't mentioned when we won three games on the trot and when we were all ringing up for our Wembley tickets.
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How can you say that the situation is the same that with Paul Lambert?
With Lambert we were relegated, we didn't score and neither we created chances or play something that you could name football.
Sherwood doesn't have the magic wound but has won two crucial games and with him the team creates chances (yesterday Benteke missed a goal done by the goal) and scores at least one gol every game.
Yes you can't blame Sherwood for this squad and some players have improved under him and some are still in comfort pick up wages mode.
I've heard there is a massive clear out in summer and we need ,
I think only guzan , Delphi , Clark and Hutton have been ok this season and keep okore and benteke , the rest can go for me .
You maybe right, except about Delph who I think has actually had quite a poor season. But you can't make such drastic changes in the summer, and expect to remain stable. We are limit to the sort of quality that we can attract and it would be a big ask to replace os many players. I think we have a reasonable first elven, and some promising squad players, but that we need to bring in three or four players of a certain quality who could make a big difference.
As for yesterday I felt we were too negative and didn't really do ourselves justice. I can understand it first half, and we did a pretty good job in restricting them, but there just wasn't enough of a threat on the counter, and again are passing just wasn't good enough. And when we got to the hour mark and it was only 1-0 we might as well have given it a go. I don't get why Sherwood didn't bring on Sinclair that would have been logical attacking change for me.
It was as if he was writting this game off and placing all the focus on Tuesday night, which is fine as long as we get the three points. But I think the fans were due a bit more of a performance than we got, and you don't want to go into a cruical fixture too flat is the other thing.
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We did something we have not done at Old Trafford for a good while and that's stayed in the game for 90 minutes.
We weren't good and we weren't poor and that combination would always likely see us beaten. We defended well in the main, but afforded them too much time to get the ball into the box, which in the main we manfully defended, but we're wasteful on the ball.
We did create a brilliant chance for Benteke which he should have burried, while they had chances themselves, not that I would say Guzan was particularly over worked. We maintained the habit of conceding in the dying stages with their first, while Bacuna giving the ball away for their second was annoying.
They have the referee to credit for the third, letting referee Rooney bully him into have the drop ball become contested because another Man United player feigned injury while we were in possession.
Rooney is a diving cheat and how he escaped a booking, I have no idea.
That was my impression of the game too. For all United dominated possession, Guzan spent long periods of time not doing very much. We weren't good as such, but the actual performance wasn't all that different to the 1-0 win we had there what seems like decades ago.
Just watched it on goals on Sunday
1) Rooney lost all claim to a pen in the way his legs collapsed and the subsequent hands-up fall to ground.
2) Sanchez was left all on his own out on the right for the first goal. Hutton should have been subbed immediately he was injured.
3) Delph was clearly fouled in the build up to the third goal. Do we ever visit OT nowadays without conceding an illegal goal?
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We didn't seem to have the belief to have a go at them yesterday and when we did, the final ball into the box wasn't good enough. It was like watching a Lambert side at times which was a shame because I think Sherwood has done ok since he's come in. He should have been a bit more braver yesterday and thrown on a bit of flair up front but he left it too late when Joe Cole came on.
On the plus side, I thought Okore had a cracking game.
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We didn't seem to have the belief to have a go at them yesterday and when we did, the final ball into the box wasn't good enough. It was like watching a Lambert side at times which was a shame because I think Sherwood has done ok since he's come in. He should have been a bit more braver yesterday and thrown on a bit of flair up front but he left it too late when Joe Cole came on.
On the plus side, I thought Okore had a cracking game.
Spot on. I too thought Okore was our one bright spot. I think he could become a important player for us.
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We lost the ball so many times yesterday it was unreal. That's one of the main (if not the) reasons why this team struggles so much. Sloppy passing, weak with possession and the reluctance to attack the ball. We seem to sit back and wait for the ball to reach them rather than do anything positive to gain possession.
If and when we confirm our PL status we need to have an clear out of the rubbish we've packed our squad out with over these last few years. I'm sure we're all sick to death of seeing us lose most of our games year in year out.
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Okore is a real player and him and Clark together are a really good partnership. It's a shame Lowton's positioning is so poor as it really undermines our defence at the moment.
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Christ we lost to Manchester United who most teams would expect to be beaten by and suddenly to some posters the wheels have fallen off again. We were beaten by a very expensive line up and most of the angst comes from the fact that QPR and Leicester won.
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I'm still struggling to think of any reason why Weimann gets games at Villa. I do have some sympathy with him because he never plays in the position where he's any good (up front, if anyone's forgotten), but playing him out on the wing is just madness.
Lowton in my opinion just isn't Premier League class. One moment of play summed him up yesterday - he finall found himself in a decent position so he ran towards goal but had a rush of blood and just hoofed the ball into the crowd behind the goal. It was embarrassing for him.
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Even if you are going to play Weimann wide, don't play him on the right - on the left, at least he can cut in on his preferred foot and shoot, and generally play a bit closer to goal. On the right, he looks like a very poor man's Dirk Kuyt - all huff, puff, scrap and scramble, no crossing from the byline, no cutting in and shooting, nothing very much at all in fact. It's all a bit pointless.
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Just forced myself to watch MOTD and looking at their team and then Shearer showing how they get 4 or 5 players in the box when they attack and how much those 4 or 5 players cost I don't think we can expect much more at the moment. I know we can close down quicker and not constantly give the ball away but we're miles away from them. Even the Brummie Red tossers I know on FB don't bother taking the piss anymore.
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Really poor display. Need to step up on Tuesday against a side who will be on a high
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Not so sure about that. Would like to see the breakdown of his goals for England in terms of who they have come against.
Why is that going to be different to any other England striker?
Shearer, Greaves, Charlton and Lineker didn't score all of theirs against Germany, Italy and Brazil.
England goals in competitive matches
27 - Wayne Rooney
26 - Michael Owen
22 - Gary Lineker
21 - Alan Shearer
19 - Frank Lampard
15 - Steven Gerrard
14 - Bobby Charlton
14 - Bryan Robson
13 - Geoff Hurst
13 - Kevin Keegan
13 - David Beckham
13 - Jermain Defoe
All-time England goalscorers
49 - Bobby Charlton
48 - Gary Lineker
44 - Jimmy Greaves
40 - Michael Owen
37 - Wayne Rooney
30 - Tom Finney
30 - Nat Lofthouse
30 - Alan Shearer
29 - Frank Lampard
28 - Steve Bloomer
28 - Vivian Woodward
27 - David Platt
Undoes the legend that is Jimmy Greaves those stats. There are far more uncompetitive competitive games these days - like the current non-event of qualification for Euro16 and far less 'friendlies' like the home nations competition where Sir Bobby was banging in braces against Wales & Northern ireland every year.
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The Home Internationals were never friendly.
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Tuesday night is gargantuan
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If Tuesday's game was a dinosaur it would be Argentinosaurus.
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What really pisses me off about shrek is not just that he scores against us and is generally an annoying little shit. It's that he's lauded as some world class player but has never shown that against world class opposition when playing for England.
Watching him score a goal like he did today really gets on my nerves as a (former) England fan. I've given up watching those toss=bags in the qualifiers now and end up, like many, watching the major tournaments out of abject curiosity. Then like clockwork, these players always lauded as world class suddenly look decidedly ordinary. Rooney is a fucking charlatan. Ask Utd fans if they can remember the last big CL game where Rooney really turned up.
I'm no Steven Gerrard fan and he's been shit for England too, but at least when his career is all said and done he can look back at that CL final and remember a game where he lived up to his reputation as being one of the best midfielders of his generation. He delivered.
Rooney has not. It's all well and good him getting yet another goal against a tin pot piece of shite side as Villa normally are when they step onto a pitch against Utd, but I'd like to see him doing it when it matters in an England shirt. Look at the Euros and there's not one side that England should be quaking in their boots at. But what will happen next year? If we're lucky we'll shuffle unconvincingly to the last 16 and then get knocked out at the first reasonable side we play against and that pug ugly piss kidney will no doubt bemoan the fans lack of passion.
Dont rate his big game temperament but Rooney has 47 international goals and is by a long way the best player in the England squad. His goal today was outstanding to be fair. Probably should have worked harder at his game and fitness over the last few years but England have pretty average players by top European standards in their first team. Rooney isnt one of them.
Not so sure about that. Would like to see the breakdown of his goals for England in terms of who they have come against.
Why is that going to be different to any other England striker?
Shearer, Greaves, Charlton and Lineker didn't score all of theirs against Germany, Italy and Brazil.
England goals in competitive matches
27 - Wayne Rooney
26 - Michael Owen
22 - Gary Lineker
21 - Alan Shearer
19 - Frank Lampard
15 - Steven Gerrard
14 - Bobby Charlton
14 - Bryan Robson
13 - Geoff Hurst
13 - Kevin Keegan
13 - David Beckham
13 - Jermain Defoe
All-time England goalscorers
49 - Bobby Charlton
48 - Gary Lineker
44 - Jimmy Greaves
40 - Michael Owen
37 - Wayne Rooney
30 - Tom Finney
30 - Nat Lofthouse
30 - Alan Shearer
29 - Frank Lampard
28 - Steve Bloomer
28 - Vivian Woodward
27 - David Platt
Undoes the legend that is Jimmy Greaves those stats. There are far more uncompetitive competitive games these days - like the current non-event of qualification for Euro16 and far less 'friendlies' like the home nations competition where Sir Bobby was banging in braces against Wales & Northern ireland every year.
Greaves scored his 44 goals in only 57 internationals.
Had he not been injured in the '66 World Cup I'm sure he'd have had a fair few more.
Would we have still won the World Cup? Yes, I think we would have.
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Positively a megaladon of a match
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Rooney scores lots of goals in games which might as well be friendlies, i.e. qualifiers against teams like Lithuania which Bobby Charlton was obviously never going to play.
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Any statistic that shows Rooney is a better goalscorer than Jimmy Greaves is only useful for showing that statistics are often nonsense.
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Rooney scores lots of goals in games which might as well be friendlies, i.e. qualifiers against teams like Lithuania which Bobby Charlton was obviously never going to play.
My point is that, in the past few years, Rooney pretty much only scores against weaker opposition and that is pretty much the case in domestic football as well. He looks so immobile when playing against top class teams and players.
Different eras, but I would have Lineker and Shearer above him every time.
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Rooney's a perfectly good player. He gets vitriol for not living up to the hype generated by other people, but he is a very good player.
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Rooney scores lots of goals in games which might as well be friendlies, i.e. qualifiers against teams like Lithuania which Bobby Charlton was obviously never going to play.
My point is that, in the past few years, Rooney pretty much only scores against weaker opposition and that is pretty much the case in domestic football as well. He looks so immobile when playing against top class teams and players.
Different eras, but I would have Lineker and Shearer above him every time.
I would hope we make full use of perhaps the brightest period we've had in a while in terms of goal scoring options for England. Kane and Austin are both lethal finishers and Sturridge is a good player. Hopefully we can get some success out of them.
They're not star players though and we've all too often but too much focus on players like Rooney, rather than playing players who might benefit the side more.
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Any statistic that shows Rooney is a better goalscorer than Jimmy Greaves is only useful for showing that statistics are often nonsense.
Absolutely correct. Wayne is a very good player. Greavsie was on a level above mere mortals.
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Rooney's a perfectly good player. He gets vitriol for not living up to the hype generated by other people, but he is a very good player.
I think that sums it up very well.
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Rooney's a perfectly good player. He gets vitriol for not living up to the hype generated by other people, but he is a very good player.
I'd agree with that Monty. It's well documented that Ferguson criticised his application at times and that has probably factored in to him not quite fulfilling the potential he showed earlier in his career. I mean when he first came onto to the scene, he was able to pick the ball up in deeper positions and drive past players in a way we hadn't seen since Gascoigne at his peak. He hasn't been able to do that for years now.
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re Sherwood's figures not looking too good, I agree, they're pretty awful to be honest, but at least we've started to look like we're playing a bit better under him.
That alone won't be enough, but it's a start at least.
What I do find amazing is Fox's revelation that there was "no shortlist" for the appointment, other than a piece of paper with Sherwood's name on it.
If that's true, then they're absolutely fucking nuts and god help us.
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Just forced myself to watch MOTD and looking at their team and then Shearer showing how they get 4 or 5 players in the box when they attack and how much those 4 or 5 players cost I don't think we can expect much more at the moment. I know we can close down quicker and not constantly give the ball away but we're miles away from them.
The problem is, we don't really look that much better against shit sides, either.
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Sherwood's figures at Spurs showed that he is essentially a win-or-lose manager - not hugely into draws, which I suppose is somewhat refreshing at the Villa (do we still hold the Premier League record for games drawn?). That's fine. I've said before, that if you draw all of your matches you get 38 points but if you win half and lose half you get 57, so trying slightly recklessly to win your way out of trouble is fine.
The worry is, as Paulie's said, that they didn't seem to consider anyone else for the job. They went for literally the most prominent name in the media and didn't look at anyone else. It's a level of consideration you'd expect from a casual fan who gets most of their sport news from 5Live news bulletins. I can only hope they were blustering in the usual 'we considered no-one else, we've got our man honest' kind of way that execs always do about a new manager.
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re Sherwood's figures not looking too good, I agree, they're pretty awful to be honest, but at least we've started to look like we're playing a bit better under him.
That alone won't be enough, but it's a start at least.
What I do find amazing is Fox's revelation that there was "no shortlist" for the appointment, other than a piece of paper with Sherwood's name on it.
If that's true, then they're absolutely fucking nuts and god help us.
It does seem to support the theory that they're just making it up as they go along.
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Sherwood and fox were photo'd at villa games together in December.
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Of course they are making it up as they go along. Planning for them is something you do for a holiday or a wedding reception.
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There's no real comparison between 'competitive' games today and those of decades ago.
Taking Greaves' career span as an example, England did not appear in Euro finals until 1968 (two games played, the home internationals used as qualifiers). They played the sum total of 2 games in getting knocked out in qualifying for 1964, the first year of entry.
As hosts and then winners of the World Cup in 1966 the only qualifying games played (4) were in 1960/61. It took only 6 games in total to win the '66 tournament, which is about one third of the way towards winning Euro 2016, and against a very different quality of opposition.
Charlton and Lineker scored bigger goals against better opposition in bigger games that Rooney is ever likely to take part in. They are both top end twats, but that is the only thing in which Rooney surpasses them.
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There's no real comparison between 'competitive' games today and those of decades ago.
Taking Greaves' career span as an example, England did not appear in Euro finals until 1968 (two games played, the home internationals used as qualifiers). They played the sum total of 2 games in getting knocked out in qualifying for 1964, the first year of entry.
As hosts and then winners of the World Cup in 1966 the only qualifying games played (4) were in 1960/61. It took only 6 games in total to win the '66 tournament, which is about one third of the way towards winning Euro 2016, and against a very different quality of opposition.
Charlton and Lineker scored bigger goals against better opposition in bigger games that Rooney is ever likely to take part in. They are both top end twats, but that is the only thing in which Rooney surpasses them.
Like the last sentence! Do international scoring records mean that much anyway? If they do then Robbie Keane must be better that any of them as he's scored 65 international goals playing mostly in a weaker side.
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You are absolutely correct Sil. Villa Park has been run like the Kremlin for five years or more. Now we need a period of silence and focus on helping the new manager save us there are leaks gushing out of B6 which do serious damage to frail morale.
It's not leaks, it's unattributed gossip. As Clampy said, you don't give such trivia the credibility of a response.
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What has to be driving him nuts is the stat where we appear to give up goals late in each half. While scoring late has helped vs West Brom, has literally really hurt us in a number of others. Either killing us of in games or chnaging the momentum entirely in others.
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Leaks. Gossip. The media treat it all the same. It's politics I know but the principle is the same. The Torygraph prints an account of what was minuted at a meeting between Nicola Sturgeon and the French ambassador to the EU. Both say it is a pack of lies the Torygraph says it is true. The same newspaper prints reports about Villa. Gossip? Leaks? The only thing I care about is that it is destabilizing.
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Leaks. Gossip. The media treat it all the same. It's politics I know but the principle is the same. The Torygraph prints an account of what was minuted at a meeting between Nicola Sturgeon and the French ambassador to the EU. Both say it is a pack of lies the Torygraph says it is true. The same newspaper prints reports about Villa. Gossip? Leaks? The only thing I care about is that it is destabilizing.
Only if you take any notice of it, and I'd be far more worried if the club did.
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That I take no notice of it is neither here nor there. Football players are simple souls and believe what they read in the press. I admire your sanguineness towards the running of the club. I wish I could share it.
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That I take no notice of it is neither here nor there. Football players are simple souls and believe what they read in the press. I admire your sanguineness towards the running of the club. I wish I could share it.
Please don't patronise. You're talking about Premier League footballers here - the most gossiped-about people in the country. They are not going to take a blind bit of notice about a rumour written in a newspaper. If they did they'd be similarly affected every day of their lives.
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Are you accusing me of patronizing you? Or are you accusing me of patronizing professional footballers? My opinion is that football players are often very immature and very stupid. I am also of the view that you are very much closer to the club than I am and that must support your viewpoint. I on the other hand can hold a less favourable opinion of what has happened at Villa Park in the last five years, and I do.
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Are you accusing me of patronizing you? Or are you accusing me of patronizing professional footballers? My opinion is that football players are often very immature and very stupid. I am also of the view that you are very much closer to the club than I am and that must support your viewpoint. I on the other hand can hold a less favourable opinion of what has happened at Villa Park in the last five years, and I do.
So now you're not only patronising me, you're also going down the tried and tested route of anyone I happen to disagree with of accusing me of being paid off/sold out/in the pocket of whoever because my opinion is that professional footballers don't take much notice of unattributed stories about takeovers, the like of which have been written for the past twelve months without any truth to them. You can say and do what you like, you can have all the different opinions you want. I don't care but neither do I intend to insult either your integrity or your intelligence.
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You seem to be assuming that because you haven't been told what's going on, that neither have the manager or the players.
I think it's likely that they know a bit more than you & I.
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Pat Murphy has said we are being sold this summer and he's pretty well informed.
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Pat Murphy has said we are being sold this summer and he's pretty well informed.
Missed this, did he say it depends on staying in the division?
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Pat Murphy has said we are being sold this summer and he's pretty well informed.
Missed this, did he say it depends on staying in the division?
He didn't say either way.
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You seem to be assuming that because you haven't been told what's going on, that neither have the manager or the players.
I think it's likely that they know a bit more than you & I.
I'm not sure whether or not the players do get told about the club's business affairs, but one thing I am certain about is that to get to their level in the game they have to be massively focussed and not pay attention to what's being written about them.
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Leaks. Gossip. The media treat it all the same.
Just because the media treat it the same, it dosen'nt mean we have to.
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Pat Murphy has said we are being sold this summer and he's pretty well informed.
Not having a pop at you mate but Pat Murphy is certainly not well informed.
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Well is anyone well informed at Villa?
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You are absolutely correct Sil. Villa Park has been run like the Kremlin for five years or more. Now we need a period of silence and focus on helping the new manager save us there are leaks gushing out of B6 which do serious damage to frail morale.
We're having a few bad season's and we're being compared to the russian government. Not the best analogy in the world really.
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He's not some amazing insider, but he is that cautious type of Beeb reporter who values not being wrong above getting the scoop.
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Well is anyone well informed at Villa?
If you mean in the media, I don't think they particularly are. A lot of the old press boxer inhabitants have moved on and their replacements seem to be about fourteen.
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A propos about nothing, my nephew bumped into Tim at the Belfry today and asked him how things were going down the Villa.A barely hidden grunt was how he described Tim's reply.Not a happy chappy.
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Well is anyone well informed at Villa?
If you mean in the media, I don't think they particularly are. A lot of the old press boxer inhabitants have moved on and their replacements seem to be about fourteen.
Yeah I've noticed that. Everyone seems to be not long out of school. The Bham Mail's reporter looks about 18.
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If Sherwood's got the hump then we are in more serious trouble than I thought.
We need everyone pulling together in this.
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Well is anyone well informed at Villa?
If you mean in the media, I don't think they particularly are. A lot of the old press boxer inhabitants have moved on and their replacements seem to be about fourteen.
Yeah I've noticed that. Everyone seems to be not long out of school. The Bham Mail's reporter looks about 18.
And a Stripey. That's the trouble with the local media - they all support da villu.
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I think the BBC football reporters are are very low quality these days, with Murphy being near the bottom. Indeed the gap of integrity/quality between the main BBC news and the tabloid football department is stark.
I would believe the Mirror, the Telegraph, the Guardian before the BBC when it comes to football or Villa specifically.
When the BBC cleans house and then hires some decent journalists then I will happily take them seriously again, but right now they rate about the level of The Sun when it comes to credibility on Villa. That takes some doing but the likes of Murphy have managed it.
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If Sherwood's got the hump then we are in more serious trouble than I thought.
We need everyone pulling together in this.
Yeah, that is very concerning. I know we will break Tim eventually but dammit I was hoping he could keep us up before we turned his cheerful chappy nature into the monotone dead eyed husk all our recent managers end up being after a while :)
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I think the BBC football reporters are are very low quality these days, with Murphy being near the bottom. Indeed the gap of integrity/quality between the main BBC news and the tabloid football department is stark.
I would believe the Mirror, the Telegraph, the Guardian before the BBC when it comes to football or Villa specifically.
When the BBC cleans house and then hires some decent journalists then I will happily take them seriously again, but right now they rate about the level of The Sun when it comes to credibility on Villa. That takes some doing but the likes of Murphy have managed it.
That's the Pat Murphy who is one of the most highly-respected sports broadcasters in the world.
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A propos about nothing, my nephew bumped into Tim at the Belfry today and asked him how things were going down the Villa.A barely hidden grunt was how he described Tim's reply.Not a happy chappy.
I noticed his demeanour was very different yesterday both pitch side and in his post match comments. His mojo was gone .
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Tuesday night is gargantuan
Massive innit!
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I think the BBC football reporters are are very low quality these days, with Murphy being near the bottom. Indeed the gap of integrity/quality between the main BBC news and the tabloid football department is stark.
I would believe the Mirror, the Telegraph, the Guardian before the BBC when it comes to football or Villa specifically.
When the BBC cleans house and then hires some decent journalists then I will happily take them seriously again, but right now they rate about the level of The Sun when it comes to credibility on Villa. That takes some doing but the likes of Murphy have managed it.
That's the Pat Murphy who is one of the most highly-respected sports broadcasters in the world.
The world of his bathroom mirror? :)
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I think the BBC football reporters are are very low quality these days, with Murphy being near the bottom. Indeed the gap of integrity/quality between the main BBC news and the tabloid football department is stark.
I would believe the Mirror, the Telegraph, the Guardian before the BBC when it comes to football or Villa specifically.
When the BBC cleans house and then hires some decent journalists then I will happily take them seriously again, but right now they rate about the level of The Sun when it comes to credibility on Villa. That takes some doing but the likes of Murphy have managed it.
Not having a pop mate but that is BS
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I think the BBC football reporters are are very low quality these days, with Murphy being near the bottom. Indeed the gap of integrity/quality between the main BBC news and the tabloid football department is stark.
I would believe the Mirror, the Telegraph, the Guardian before the BBC when it comes to football or Villa specifically.
When the BBC cleans house and then hires some decent journalists then I will happily take them seriously again, but right now they rate about the level of The Sun when it comes to credibility on Villa. That takes some doing but the likes of Murphy have managed it.
That's the Pat Murphy who is one of the most highly-respected sports broadcasters in the world.
The world of his bathroom mirror? :)
Ask other journalists who they rate. You can guarantee his name will crop up, as will many BBC reporters. They're not all Alan Green and Paul Franks
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Well obviously I disagree with you gents but I don't want to sour our mood further after yesterday by more argument. Difference of opinion about the press. Which regardless of their quality level are the least of our problems right now.
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I'm more concerned about sherwood sulking at the belfry.
Perhaps he'd just shot a bad round
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I'm more concerned about sherwood sulking at the belfry.
Perhaps he'd just shot a bad round
Why are you concerned about that?
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I'm more concerned about sherwood sulking at the belfry.
Perhaps he'd just shot a bad round
Agreed. We need him positive.
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I'm glad he was pissed off.
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Let's hope he's got it out of his system and he's at BH tomorrow firing the boys up.
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I'd want him bloody furious not clicking his heels
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I'd want him bloody furious not clicking his heels
Point was at old Trafford he looked a shadow of his bouncy self.
He'd also ditched the sleeves rolled up tracksuit n trainer look and had sombre shoes and suit on.
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I'd want him bloody furious not clicking his heels
Point was at old Trafford he looked a shadow of his bouncy self.
He'd also ditched the sleeves rolled up tracksuit n trainer look and had sombre shoes and suit on.
His sleeves were not rolled up. Case closed.
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Hey, today I had tracksuit bottoms on, yesterday I thought I was quite well turned out... Im still same bloke, but I see your point.
Let's hope he was just pissed off like we are rather than something deeper.
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I'd want him bloody furious not clicking his heels
Point was at old Trafford he looked a shadow of his bouncy self.
He'd also ditched the sleeves rolled up tracksuit n trainer look and had sombre shoes and suit on.
His sleeves were not rolled up. Case closed.
He doesn't roll his sleeves up, that was just a figure of speech.
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I'd want him bloody furious not clicking his heels
Point was at old Trafford he looked a shadow of his bouncy self.
He'd also ditched the sleeves rolled up tracksuit n trainer look and had sombre shoes and suit on.
His sleeves were not rolled up. Case closed.
He doesn't roll his sleeves up, that was just a figure of speech.
Maybe he just fancied a change. It dosen't mean anything really.
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He had mood swings at Spurs so maybe that's just in his DNA.
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Any statistic that shows Rooney is a better goalscorer than Jimmy Greaves is only useful for showing that statistics are often nonsense.
I think goals per game would be a very good comparator. That will show the difference between Rooney as a very good player and likes of Jimmy Greaves and Charlton as one or two levels above him.
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Any statistic that shows Rooney is a better goalscorer than Jimmy Greaves is only useful for showing that statistics are often nonsense.
I think goals per game would be a very good comparator. That will show the difference between Rooney as a very good player and likes of Jimmy Greaves and Charlton as one or two levels above him.
At least Charlton had the good grace to just have a comb over, as opposed to Rooney who super-glued some road kill to the top of his bonce. If Wazza gets struck by lightning that thing will come back to life and wreak havoc. Though the movie spinoff "Frankensyrup" would make great viewing.
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Disappointed but not surprised by the result.
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Yes agree with every word ...no... letter in Darren's post.