Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Londonvilla on May 11, 2014, 09:44:43 PM
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So who do you want as the next Villa manager?
Well, well, well what a season, it started so well, away in North London, and ended pathetically away in North London. It’s important that I put my cards on the table I’m a Paul Lambert fan, I blame our current position on our in experience Chief Executive and our owner who is only interested in recovering all the money that Martin O’Neill wasted. Paul Lambert record in the past show that he is an initiative coach, who favours attacking football, however this season has seen him failed to do the one thing that would have ensured he had the backing of the fans and that was to provide entertainment at Villa Park. When is the last time we were properly entertained over a season at Villa Park? (A season and a half under Martin O’Neill and then you have to go back to John Gregory’s time at the club)
There’s going to be an announcement tomorrow, (or in the next few days) and I sure that the club will part company with Paul Lambert and start the search for the next Villa manager so I’ve put together a long-list of the runners and riders taking into consideration the fact that we need a manager who:
a) realistically will come to the club
b) can work with a small transfer budget (£15 million)
c) can develop our younger players (we won the next gen tournament yet none of those players feature in our first-team squad )
d) has a track record of playing entertaining, passing football
I think the club realistically should have a short-list of three people who can take the Villa forward and provide hope, and entertainment for the fans (boy do we deserve a little bit of both)
So here’s my long list of possible Villa managers
Alan Pardew – He is going to get the push from Newcastle and he always does well for a season and a half. Wouldn’t it be great to see him in the ring at Villa Park against Mike Tyson.
Darren Ferguson – Peterborough always punches above their weight, Ferguson plays attacking football on limited resources as they always have to sell their best player. Always seems to find good young cheap players and sell them on at a profit.
Sam Allardyce – he is going to get the sack from West Ham and he would sort out our back four. Likes to play with the big man up front, and we have one of the best. People need to remember at Bolton he had flair players like, Jay Jay Okocha, Youri Djorkaeff, and Nicolas Anelka.
Paul Lambert – let’s keep him, if we had not had all the injuries to key players we would have been comfortably in mid- table. Last chance saloon? Given him until Christmas?
Phil Brown – talks a good game, would come to the club, currently achieving good things on a limited budget down at Southend.
Steve McClaren – Villa fans didn’t want him last time and looking at how well Derby are doing, many people are beginning to think we missed a great opportunity to get a great coach.
Nigel Clough – proved he can do it, never had the opportunity in the big time and his teams play good football
Uwe Rösler – this man will one day manage one of the big four clubs, and I mean Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or Aston Villa. He’s a future superstar if he doesn’t get promoted to the premiership a bigger club will come in for him.
Tim Sherwood – his performance at Tottenham shows that he has potential. He’s very keen on bringing through younger players, and will probably work better at a club that’s not always in the press
Karl Robinson – a young hungry manager whose team always plays football, and he has not been able to buy a player for the last three seasons. His success comes through coaching, he makes players better. He will manage at the top level in the near future.
Roberto Di Matteo – the man who won the European cup, still on gardening leave from Chelsea’s and his teams play football
Giovanni Trapattoni-the old man would sort out our defence, and he has a track record of winning leagues.
Paolo Di Canio- I’ve put him on the long list is a bit of a joke, no way should we go near this goose-stepping fascist.
Thorsten Fink – if you have to go foreign you have to consider him, his teams play football and he has a good track record
Lothar Matthaus – I think he would come, if he had a transfer budget of £30 million. Would certainly sort out our defence
Frank Rijkaard – if he was good enough for Barcelona is good enough for us.
My own personal short-list of managers that the Villa should interview (taking into consideration I probably give Paul Lambert until Christmas to turn things around) would be:
1. Karl Robinson
2. Uwe Rösler
3. Darren Ferguson
I would be happy with any of these but have I missed anyone out of the long list?
Who would be on your short-list of managers that you would recommend to the villa Board?
So who do you want as the next Villa manager?
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It is all dependent on whether we're taken over by new owners and what their ambitions are. Whoever the manager is I'd like to play attractive football with some sort of tactical approach.
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If we get new investment then Pochettino is an obvious target.
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Darren Ferguson!? Deemed not good enough for Preston!? No thanks.
All depends on us being taken over. If we are, in fantasy world I'd like Rafa Benitez or Roberto Mancini.
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Scratch off all the British/Irish names. No more of that thank you.
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If I hear the phrase 'young and hungry' ever again in connection with the club I think I'll go on a killcrazy rampage.
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Big money comes in Pochetino would be good. Or the guy from Mainze that has been even better than Klopp was there.
No money and i would go with finding a reaaly good coach with tactical nouse from the continent.
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So who do you want as the next Villa manager?
Well, well, well what a season, it started so well, away in North London, and ended pathetically away in North London. It’s important that I put my cards on the table I’m a Paul Lambert fan, I blame our current position on our in experience Chief Executive and our owner who is only interested in recovering all the money that Martin O’Neill wasted. Paul Lambert record in the past show that he is an initiative coach, who favours attacking football, however this season has seen him failed to do the one thing that would have ensured he had the backing of the fans and that was to provide entertainment at Villa Park. When is the last time we were properly entertained over a season at Villa Park? (A season and a half under Martin O’Neill and then you have to go back to John Gregory’s time at the club)
There’s going to be an announcement tomorrow, (or in the next few days) and I sure that the club will part company with Paul Lambert and start the search for the next Villa manager so I’ve put together a long-list of the runners and riders taking into consideration the fact that we need a manager who:
a) realistically will come to the club
b) can work with a small transfer budget (£15 million)
c) can develop our younger players (we won the next gen tournament yet none of those players feature in our first-team squad )
d) has a track record of playing entertaining, passing football
I think the club realistically should have a short-list of three people who can take the Villa forward and provide hope, and entertainment for the fans (boy do we deserve a little bit of both)
So here’s my long list of possible Villa managers
Alan Pardew – He is going to get the push from Newcastle and he always does well for a season and a half. Wouldn’t it be great to see him in the ring at Villa Park against Mike Tyson.
Darren Ferguson – Peterborough always punches above their weight, Ferguson plays attacking football on limited resources as they always have to sell their best player. Always seems to find good young cheap players and sell them on at a profit.
Sam Allardyce – he is going to get the sack from West Ham and he would sort out our back four. Likes to play with the big man up front, and we have one of the best. People need to remember at Bolton he had flair players like, Jay Jay Okocha, Youri Djorkaeff, and Nicolas Anelka.
Paul Lambert – let’s keep him, if we had not had all the injuries to key players we would have been comfortably in mid- table. Last chance saloon? Given him until Christmas?
Phil Brown – talks a good game, would come to the club, currently achieving good things on a limited budget down at Southend.
Steve McClaren – Villa fans didn’t want him last time and looking at how well Derby are doing, many people are beginning to think we missed a great opportunity to get a great coach.
Nigel Clough – proved he can do it, never had the opportunity in the big time and his teams play good football
Uwe Rösler – this man will one day manage one of the big four clubs, and I mean Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or Aston Villa. He’s a future superstar if he doesn’t get promoted to the premiership a bigger club will come in for him.
Tim Sherwood – his performance at Tottenham shows that he has potential. He’s very keen on bringing through younger players, and will probably work better at a club that’s not always in the press
Karl Robinson – a young hungry manager whose team always plays football, and he has not been able to buy a player for the last three seasons. His success comes through coaching, he makes players better. He will manage at the top level in the near future.
Roberto Di Matteo – the man who won the European cup, still on gardening leave from Chelsea’s and his teams play football
Giovanni Trapattoni-the old man would sort out our defence, and he has a track record of winning leagues.
Paolo Di Canio- I’ve put him on the long list is a bit of a joke, no way should we go near this goose-stepping fascist.
Thorsten Fink – if you have to go foreign you have to consider him, his teams play football and he has a good track record
Lothar Matthaus – I think he would come, if he had a transfer budget of £30 million. Would certainly sort out our defence
Frank Rijkaard – if he was good enough for Barcelona is good enough for us.
My own personal short-list of managers that the Villa should interview (taking into consideration I probably give Paul Lambert until Christmas to turn things around) would be:
1. Karl Robinson
2. Uwe Rösler
3. Darren Ferguson
I would be happy with any of these but have I missed anyone out of the long list?
Who would be on your short-list of managers that you would recommend to the villa Board?
So who do you want as the next Villa manager?
75 year old Giovanni Trappatoni?
There are some horrific names on there
Only one name for me. Jurgen Klinnsmann - imagine the lift he would give the club.
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Darren Ferguson? Is your keyboard working properly? I'm sure you just typed out Darren Ferguson...
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I read Phil Brown and went to throw up.
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In the main, that list should be laminated and handed out to the top brass at the club with instructions to not employ any of them.
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I have not got the foggyest who I would like. I suppose it all depends on which way the club is heading.
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I've not seen a list that dodgy since I looked at Craig's.
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I read Phil Brown and went to throw up.
Agreed. Vomit inducing. Id rather have McCleish. The Villa are desperate, absolutely desperate, for a big nam. Someone that can come in and restore the feel good factor and put bums on seats. Remember the wave of optimism and eurphoria when MON arrived - remember the packed car park when it was the press conference... Same whn Big Ron arrived. Can you imagine if Darren Fegurson, Karl Robinson or Phil Brown rocked up? Jesus
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I have not got the foggyest who I would like. I suppose it all depends on which way the club is heading.
I think that's right. Depends entirely on who's in charge and how much money they're willing to spend. Pochettino is a good shout if we get significant investment. If not then they're really going to have to get their thinking caps on. Assuming they have any thinking caps; it's hard to tell.
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I'd put my money on Moyes. I'd prefer someone with a more attacking style.
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I'd put my money on Moyes. I'd prefer someone with a more attacking style.
That's not a bad shout, even if we don't get the takeover. He's used to working on a budget and he'd be a safer pair of hands than Lambert. As you say, it'd be nice if he was more attack-minded but two or three seasons of mid-table security wouldn't go amiss. I wonder how much the Man Utd experience will have knocked his confidence.
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I've not seen a list that dodgy since I looked at Craig's.
Hand clappy thing.
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If the takeover happens, I think the potential new owners will get bigger name or up and coming continental manager. Even if takeover doesn't happen I'd want us to get continental manager, I've seen enough managers from UK playing the same old turgid style of football with limited ideas and hitting the glass ceiling either at championship or midtable.
We need something completely new and new sets of ideas.
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I'd put my money on Moyes. I'd prefer someone with a more attacking style.
That's not a bad shout, even if we don't get the takeover. He's used to working on a budget and he'd be a safer pair of hands than Lambert. As you say, it'd be nice if he was more attack-minded but two or three seasons of mid-table security wouldn't go amiss. I wonder how much the Man Utd experience will have knocked his confidence.
I wouldn't mind Moyes at all. I'm not sure he's as negative as made out. Some of that is down to his mannerisms more than how the team play. Even if there is a takeover on the cards I'm betting there is not going to be a ever ending pot of gold to spend so either way he could be a good choice.
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Darren Ferguson?
Really?
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In the main, that list should be laminated and handed out to the top brass at the club with instructions to not employ any of them.
Agreed, what a strange list.
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Of those you mentioned, Pardew, Ferguson, Allardyce, Brown, Sherwood, Clough, Rosler, Trappatoni, Di Canio or Robinson would be awful appointments. There's no-one on your list who especially stands out to me. That said, I don't have many ideas myself. A couple of years ago I really wanted David Moyes at Villa - I still think he'd be a good, if somewhat 'playing it safe' appointment. I like Gus Poyet, but can't see him leaving Sunderland.
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I've not seen a list that dodgy since I looked at Craig's.
Hand clappy thing.
Was your mate Craig's listing to the left or the right?
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John Gregory with Sid as assistant .
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...the guy from Mainze that has been even better than Klopp was there.
Thomas Tuchel. Very impressive trainer - Mainz 05 qualified for the Europa League yesterday. Unfortunately they also announced that Tuchel's stepping down, having been refused his request to let him out of his contract, which still has a year to run. Speculation is rife, but it seems he's been wanting out for months. The club hasn't spoken about it for the sake of the football. On the one hand: fair play for Tuchel for carrying on with his job, in spite; on the other: who the hell gets a team into Europe and fucks off? He says he wants a year sabbatical so perhaps he's got personal reasons. Whatever they are, he doesn't seem the most stable of characters.
Mainz are my German team, so I'm excited about the "European dream" and frustrated at the same time... Tellingly, most Mainz fans I spoke to after the match have absolute faith in the club to get everything sorted quickly - a breath of fresh air, compared with Villa at the moment.
We played at "The Irish Rover" yesterday evening and it got quite messy...
(http://the-limpets.de/other_stuff/MZ-HH.jpg)
(http://the-limpets.de/other_stuff/IrishRoverUltras.jpg)
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I'm sorry but that list is a cluster fuck.
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I think that list from the OP shows we need to go abroad or think outside the box a bit this time. The reality is most of those haven't achieved what Lambert has.
I wouldn't have an issue with Klinsmann tbh, he could attract some decent names here I'm sure and certainly plays attacking football.
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I don't which scares me more, Lambert being here next season or most of the names on that list being possible replacements.
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We need a Villa man at the helm and the only one who could manage us right now is John Gregory, who is with Crawley, loves the Villa and done wonders for us and would have taken us league success due to a few head cases we had - no fault of his - preferably with Sid alongside.
Does anyone have a list of current managers/coaches who are ex Villa players?
Another shout could be for Martin Yol - always talks highly of Villa and great knowledge of foreign players
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
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I'm really not that bothered if the next prospective manager loves Villa or speaks highly of us. I'd like him to know how to win far more football matches than he loses - anything else is just garnish.
That's not to say I'm hankering after Big Sam style stuff, but presumably there must be more than a few coaches who can win and play nice football.
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Rejecting the options is ok but not if you don’t put forward a name yourself......and everyone should get real no big name is coming to the villa as we stand.......were shopping at Morrison not Harrods. Maybe if we get sold and if there a big transfer budget we will end up with David Moyes
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We need a new owner. Then I'll worry about who the next manager should be.
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
People have got short memories. Gregory's team served up some appalling dross with far better players than Lambert had to work with.
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We need a new owner. Then I'll worry about who the next manager should be.
This.
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Rejecting the options is ok but not if you don’t put forward a name yourself......and everyone should get real no big name is coming to the villa as we stand.......were shopping at Morrison not Harrods. Maybe if we get sold and if there a big transfer budget we will end up with David Moyes
Isn't choosing a new manager right now the very epitome of a shot in the dark? If we are taken over, which looks likely, then Klinnsmann, De Boer and Benitez are all realistic targets. If we don't, then I'm sad to say the picture changes massively, and to be honest doesn't bear thinking about. BTW I don't want Moyes either way.
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"We need a new owner. Then I'll worry about who the next manager should be."
It could take years to sell the Club just look at Newcastle, Everton. Do you want to keep the same manager until then
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I think you'll find out this week that it really doesn't take years.
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No Takeover- Moyes is the best we could hope for. I think with the usual 20 million summer budget, he could improve us and tack on at least another 10 points on top of what we've got this season.
With Takeover- We need to show ambition. I dunno how much validity the Klinsmann rumours will ultimately have but he would be a name that gets people talking. It's a gamble given that he's not had a great deal of club management experience (though one year at a huge club like Bayern counts for a lot). I think the key element with Klinsmann is that he could attract good players to the club. Players who under other circumstances might not give us the time of day. We could perhaps see a few promising young Germans plying their trade here. I also think his attitude toward the youth set up would be good.
Other than that, I'm not sure on other potential names, but what I do know is, if we wave enough money in front of a quality manager, they will come. But we need a new owner, willing to invest a decent chunk on turning this club around. We could indeed spend less than Randy did in his outlays for O Neill. It's about spending wisely. We can be competitive and fit in with FFP if the club is run sensibly and astutely.
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...the guy from Mainze that has been even better than Klopp was there.
Thomas Tuchel. Very impressive trainer - Mainz 05 qualified for the Europa League yesterday. Unfortunately they also announced that Tuchel's stepping down, having been refused his request to let him out of his contract, which still has a year to run. Speculation is rife, but it seems he's been wanting out for months. The club hasn't spoken about it for the sake of the football. On the one hand: fair play for Tuchel for carrying on with his job, in spite; on the other: who the hell gets a team into Europe and fucks off? He says he wants a year sabbatical so perhaps he's got personal reasons. Whatever they are, he doesn't seem the most stable of characters.
Mainz are my German team, so I'm excited about the "European dream" and frustrated at the same time... Tellingly, most Mainz fans I spoke to after the match have absolute faith in the club to get everything sorted quickly - a breath of fresh air, compared with Villa at the moment.
We played at "The Irish Rover" yesterday evening and it got quite messy...
(http://the-limpets.de/other_stuff/MZ-HH.jpg)
(http://the-limpets.de/other_stuff/IrishRoverUltras.jpg)
Thomas Tuchel is our man. Unfortunately he will have other offers I suspect so may be gone before Lerner sells up.
Newcastle and West Ham will also be looking for new managers this summer
+1000 to no British or Irish manager
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Rejecting the options is ok but not if you don’t put forward a name yourself......and everyone should get real no big name is coming to the villa as we stand.......were shopping at Morrison not Harrods. Maybe if we get sold and if there a big transfer budget we will end up with David Moyes
Isn't choosing a new manager right now the very epitome of a shot in the dark? If we are taken over, which looks likely, then Klinnsmann, De Boer and Benitez are all realistic targets. If we don't, then I'm sad to say the picture changes massively, and to be honest doesn't bear thinking about. BTW I don't want Moyes either way.
You may be right but we Speculate on lots of stuff why not this? and anyway it something to do whilst we wait for the end of season DVD
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
People have got short memories. Gregory's team served up some appalling dross with far better players than Lambert had to work with.
Oh please! Gregory's Villa teams were infinitely better than the shite Lambert served up.
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Christ I hope Newcastle and Westham do not fire their managers this summer. No way do I want those twats available.
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
People have got short memories. Gregory's team served up some appalling dross with far better players than Lambert had to work with.
Oh please! Gregory's Villa teams were infinitely better than the shite Lambert served up.
You are not wrong in what you say but the previous poster was also correct in saying that Gregory had far better players to work with. Gregory should have done better than he did with the players he had. He went the same way as MON did in that he spent large sums on average players or players past their best because we were not able to attract top players.
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Jürgen Klinsmann, Joachim Low, Yakin, to name a few. Obviously depending on a fantasy takeover
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
People have got short memories. Gregory's team served up some appalling dross with far better players than Lambert had to work with.
Oh please! Gregory's Villa teams were infinitely better than the shite Lambert served up.
They were, and well organised too. Not always the prettiest but we still had flair players in the side who could make things happen, like Merson and Hendrie. We could still play some good stuff in his sides. I suppose the cup final debacle will always be a stigma for him, but even so, infinitely more pleasant memories of our time under him than I'll have with Lamberts tenure. Lambert doesn't even come close to O Leary in terms of quality. He couldn't even match O Leary's worst season, and has managed to out do Doncaster for pure shitness with the Bradford games (and Sheff Utd).
I wouldn't have him back though. He's well past it at this level unfortunately.
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We need a Villa man at the helm and the only one who could manage us right now is John Gregory, who is with Crawley, loves the Villa and done wonders for us and would have taken us league success due to a few head cases we had - no fault of his - preferably with Sid alongside.
Does anyone have a list of current managers/coaches who are ex Villa players?
Another shout could be for Martin Yol - always talks highly of Villa and great knowledge of foreign players
Whaaaaaaat . . . ?
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I was delighted when Gregory got binned last time. It's a no from me, i've had enough of shite, negative football to last me a lifetime.
People have got short memories. Gregory's team served up some appalling dross with far better players than Lambert had to work with.
Oh please! Gregory's Villa teams were infinitely better than the shite Lambert served up.
They were better because of the quality of players. Gregory as a manager was average at best. He also became incredibly negative the last couple of years.
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Jeez guys, Gregory's a bit of a laugh and yes he's a Villa man but bringing him back as manager? Are you trying to depress me even more???
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Blimey, that list is er...
As for Klinsmann, other than name I have no idea what he is capable of in club management. It's not like the US national team are playing free flowing stuff either. It would take a boatload of cash to get him and you have to think if he is looking for club management, Spurs would be all over him.
At this stage I have no idea, but give me someone who can assemble a gameplan every pgame, and change it as the game progresses as needed. Someone modern and into newer training techniques. And most importantly someone who realises that the Villa Park pitch is the finest in europe and would love to see passing football on the surface from the home team.
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Blimey, that list is er...
As for Klinsmann, other than name I have no idea what he is capable of in club management. It's not like the US national team are playing free flowing stuff either. It would take a boatload of cash to get him and you have to think if he is looking for club management, Spurs would be all over him.
At this stage I have no idea, but give me someone who can assemble a gameplan every pgame, and change it as the game progresses as needed. Someone modern and into newer training techniques. And most importantly someone who realises that the Villa Park pitch is the finest in europe and would love to see passing football on the surface from the home team.
Klinsmann had one season at Bayern, kind of in the middle of their transitional period. Didn't do brilliantly, didn't do terribly. But certainly that's probably enough of a learning curve for handling a big club.
He'd be a gamble, but his standing in the game would make people take notice of us. We've been all but ignored since media darling, O Neill left. I think his work with younger players would also hold him in good stead here.
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Klinsmann has managed only one season at club level with mixed results. Wouldn't be a bad choice as sporting director if he could be persuaded to swap Huntington Beach for Birmingham!!
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Klinsmann has managed only one season at club level with mixed results. Wouldn't be a bad choice as sporting director if he could be persuaded to swap Huntington Beach for Birmingham!!
I'd also worry about his commitment. He'd done well at Germany but decided not to continue.
He left Bayern by "mutual consent, with 5 games left of the season, and they were 3 points off top spot. Quite why, who knows but there was a disagreement between him and board.
I dunno. Kevin Keeganitus perhaps?
I don't doubt his potential and quality though. Or star power.
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Klinsmann has managed only one season at club level with mixed results. Wouldn't be a bad choice as sporting director if he could be persuaded to swap Huntington Beach for Birmingham!!
I'd also worry about his commitment. He'd done well at Germany but decided not to continue.
He left Bayern by "mutual consent, with 5 games left of the season, and they were 3 points off top spot. Quite why, who knows but there was a disagreement between him and board.
I dunno. Kevin Keeganitus perhaps?
I don't doubt his potential and quality though. Or star power.
Not got fond memories of Villa Park though I bet!!
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Klinsmann has managed only one season at club level with mixed results. Wouldn't be a bad choice as sporting director if he could be persuaded to swap Huntington Beach for Birmingham!!
I'd also worry about his commitment. He'd done well at Germany but decided not to continue.
He left Bayern by "mutual consent, with 5 games left of the season, and they were 3 points off top spot. Quite why, who knows but there was a disagreement between him and board.
I dunno. Kevin Keeganitus perhaps?
I don't doubt his potential and quality though. Or star power.
Not got fond memories of Villa Park though I bet!!
I'm surprised he remembers anything about Villa park thanks to Bosnich. lol.
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Kent Nielsen has just won the Danish league with Helenius' old team if we insist on a Villa connection.
I would love to find our own Rodgers or Martinez, playing that kind of football.
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Rejecting the options is ok but not if you don’t put forward a name yourself......and everyone should get real no big name is coming to the villa as we stand.......were shopping at Morrison not Harrods. Maybe if we get sold and if there a big transfer budget we will end up with David Moyes
Ferran Adria would make you a beautiful meal from ingredients from Morrisons. I would make you a plate of barely edible pap from ingredients from Harrods.
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The new owners should bring in Tommy Docherty to give us a short term boost. I know he is getting on a bit now but he could pave the way for a younger man like Jo Venglos.
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I would go for Uwe Rossler although DW would not let him come here in a month of Sundays. For one he has some tactical nouse, plays attacking football, you can understand him and he realised early on Grant Holt was crap.
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Rossler is a calculated gamble but would be in my top 3 or 4. He has done less than Lambert though who arrived as tactically flexible playing attacking football.
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I agree on rosler though I think it's too soon
Still trying to work out if the john Gregory thing is a joke! How about big fat Ron?
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Taylor, Atkinson, Little. We were blessed to have a run of managers that all loved the fabric of this great club. Where can we find the next batch? It's been too long.
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we don't need anyone who 'get's' the club per se - on that basis Stan would put himself to the top of the list this morning - what we need is a miracle. Who was that bloke dressed as Jesus at WHL yesterday. Maybe he knows someone.
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we don't need anyone who 'get's' the club per se - on that basis Stan would put himself to the top of the list this morning - what we need is a miracle. Who was that bloke dressed as Jesus at WHL yesterday. Maybe he knows someone.
I know, for me it's just nicer when they do.
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We need a new owner. Then I'll worry about who the next manager should be.
Exactly my take on things and also goes for subjects such as the new kit - the latter seems mere trivia at the moment, just waiting for a 'who would you like in the first game of next season' thread which would be equally irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things just now (not that a new manager fits that category I should stress)
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We're not going to hijack Newcastle's interest in Gaultier?
It may not be the right fit right now but the bloke who looks like the wrestler who guided Burnley to promotion, selling one of his best players and working on a shoestring budget. He's impressed me, talks well, don't know much about him tactically but he'd be a better shout than most on that list despite inexperience at this level.
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As much as I liked the guy, Gregory's best run all involved the team he inherited from Little. We had a great run for nearly an entire year in 1998 but lets face it once his own signings came into the team ie Stone, Watson etc the win rate dried up and we became merely a hard team to beat as opposed to one that was going to sweep aside the opposition. Merson we didn't really see the best of until the following season (the Cup Final season) and Dublin scored something like 7 goals in 3 games before getting injured.
I honestly don't know who would get the job but I know one thing, its irrelevant if hes not going to get the financial backing from Lerner or the new chairman because in this league you need to spend money just to avoid standing still - and if we stand still next season we're down.
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Les Denis for me. He was doing really well on Celebrity Masterchef the other night.
Or like, that guy from St Etienne. Or that Bielsa chap. I know these won't happen though, so if Lambert gets the boot I'd put a shiny 20p on the new manager being David Moyes.
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Not really fussed who the new manager is as long as his coaching staff can coach in the art of passing, marking, moving, tackling and shooting. The rest of the job is the easy bit.
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Has this list been drawn up a wind up Trol?
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Thomas Hitzlsperger
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Alan Pardew.
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If we have the same players and no money again next season then i'd take Allardyce, Pulis or retain Lambert. Anyone else and we'll be relegated. Yesterday aside, lack of effort hasn't been the problem it's simply a lack of quality. For me the relegated sides have better squads than us so not getting relegated is an achievement. Our club has become a joke, and not a funny one.
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I'm not as 'into' the game as I used to be but I have never heard of Karl Robinson. Wasn't he in Neighbours?
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I'd put my money on Moyes. I'd prefer someone with a more attacking style.
No Thanks, there has to be better options if we want attacking attractive good football.
It will all depend on if there are new owners and the money made available, but I agree we should hope for a big name with a reputation for the type of football we want to see.
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I'm not as 'into' the game as I used to be but I have never heard of Karl Robinson. Wasn't he in Neighbours?
No. You're thinking of Tom Robinson. The gay pop singer who went on to found the BNP.
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Laudrup, why not give him a shout?
Swansea always played nice football under him.
Only problem is at Swansea away earlier this year we were talking about Laudrup and their fans were glad to see him go, apparently a bit of a wetter when it comes to knuckling down.
Examples include making players train indoors because it is raining, and not even turning up to training most days.
Mind you, having a manager who isn't there would suit our players, as then they wouldn't have to do anything at training, like they clearly do now, if not then I would love to know what they spend their time 'training'.
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After reading the OP, I decided not to read most of the rest of the entries, on the basis that they'd be as dismissive as me about e suggestions on said OP.
Has Poyet been mentioned? The view is that he's fallen out with the Blunderland management and would leave for the right job. May not be right for us but certainly would bring someth ing we've lacked in recent appointments
Pochettino would be a good move.
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I hope the OP was very, very drunk when he wrote that.
Phil Brown, FFS.
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I'd give PL a proper try with real investment in the team hopefully with new owners. If not though David Moyes should be favourite. Please no ex player and if either Phil Brown or Sam Allerdyce get the job I'm finished with the Villa
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I hope the OP was very, very drunk when he wrote that.
Phil Brown, FFS.
That's a Villa Kicks level of suggestion right there.
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Close the thread.
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I stopped reading when I saw Phil Brown being mentioned.
I would prefer Danny Wilson over him. At least he had a hit with Mary's Prayer.
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I hope Lambert keeps his job, but he needs to raise his game. he seems to have faith in players that clearly are not good enough. He also said recently that we have a good goal difference. It was minus 14 at the time. Is that his standard ? Lowton cannot mark, defend, tackle and contributes nothing going forward. Similarly Luna. Bacuna a bit better, but capable of being poor also. so out. Nothing seen from Tonev so far , but Stan's first season was also poor. Gabby could be in every England squad but clearly has no ambition to be. He needs to stop giving the ball away, falling over, and laughing when he misses a sitter. Albrighton, Holt, Bowery, Sylla not good enough. Bennett has shown ability, but needs to improve. Baker needs to learn how to clear the ball more than 20 yards or it s going to keep coming back. Clark needs to learn how to pass. Who knows if Guzan is a good goalie, we can t tell.
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as recommendations go this isn't exactly glowing
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Christ, that original list was depressing - I'd rather keep Lambert than appoint most of those.
Here's a better list:
David Moyes - available, used to performing well in the Premier League on a budget.
Frank De Boer - won the Dutch league again, and could be looking to move to the Premier League.
Gustavo Poyet - looks like West Ham are after him, so should be within our range too.
Sean Dyche - just got Burnley promoted.
Andres Villas-Boas - currently with Zenit St Petersburg, but might want to get away from that madhouse and come back to a Premier League madhouse.
Tony Pulis - could we put up with shit football, if it meant better results?
Glenn Hoddle - ok, I'm running out of inspiration now.
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The Soton manager is having talks today
obviously he would do .
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, but Stan's first season was also poor.
we knew Stan had something there thou , he was brilliant at Celtic .
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I hope Lambert keeps his job, but he needs to raise his game. he seems to have faith in players that clearly are not good enough. He also said recently that we have a good goal difference. It was minus 14 at the time. Is that his standard ? Lowton cannot mark, defend, tackle and contributes nothing going forward. Similarly Luna. Bacuna a bit better, but capable of being poor also. so out. Nothing seen from Tonev so far , but Stan's first season was also poor. Gabby could be in every England squad but clearly has no ambition to be. He needs to stop giving the ball away, falling over, and laughing when he misses a sitter. Albrighton, Holt, Bowery, Sylla not good enough. Bennett has shown ability, but needs to improve. Baker needs to learn how to clear the ball more than 20 yards or it s going to keep coming back. Clark needs to learn how to pass. Who knows if Guzan is a good goalie, we can t tell.
what?
and you want him to stay after that statement ?
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, but Stan's first season was also poor.
we knew Stan had something there thou , he was brilliant at Celtic .
In all fairness Petrov was given some unbelievable stick for a hell of a long time. This has been conveniently forgotten since his illness.
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, but Stan's first season was also poor.
we knew Stan had something there thou , he was brilliant at Celtic .
In all fairness Petrov was given some unbelievable stick for a hell of a long time. This has been conveniently forgotten since his illness.
I think he got the stick you'd expect a non-delivering player to get. I'd go as far as to say he was really pretty poor for almost the entirety of his first two seasons with us. What that has got to do with his illness is beyond me - are people going to say "Well, he was crap for two years, but I hope he gets better"?
Also, if it's worth noting that, I recall when he signed for us, Celtic fans gave him loads of stick as he'd wanted out so quickly, he'd apparently spent their championship celebrations with a face like a smacked arse. They gave him plenty of stick at the time, but I doubt that really has any bearing on how they talk about him now, either.
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, but Stan's first season was also poor.
we knew Stan had something there thou , he was brilliant at Celtic .
In all fairness Petrov was given some unbelievable stick for a hell of a long time. This has been conveniently forgotten since his illness.
I think he got the stick you'd expect a non-delivering player to get. I'd go as far as to say he was really pretty poor for almost the entirety of his first two seasons with us. What that has got to do with his illness is beyond me - are people going to say "Well, he was crap for two years, but I hope he gets better"?
Also, if it's worth noting that, I recall when he signed for us, Celtic fans gave him loads of stick as he'd wanted out so quickly, he'd apparently spent their championship celebrations with a face like a smacked arse. They gave him plenty of stick at the time, but I doubt that really has any bearing on how they talk about him now, either.
I was talking about the way memories seem to have been fogged in regards to what Petrov did as a player. It won't take much searching on this forum to validate what I have said. Personally I thought he was one of our better players in the last 18 months of his career but I have had many a conversation with fans who thought he was shit who now think he was a fine player.
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Someone from Rossler, Pochettino, Moyes or Klinsmann would do me.
Rossler's great but I think it might be too soon, and if he gets Wigan up I think he will give fancy at least one season trying to keep them there.
Pocettino is almost nailed on for the Spurs job which is a shame as he would have ticked all the boxes, good football, works well with young players, has fresh ideas on tactics and signings.
Moyes with money I think could have us competing again, but I just think the timing is wrong, the guy needs a break from the game.
My only doubt over Klinsmann would be that he seems a bit limited tactics wise, but no doubt he would have a MON style impact upon arrival and I think would be able to attract some good players and work well with the promising younger ones we already have.
Man was that original list a bit of shocker! :o
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Rafa Benitez all day long for me.
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Rafa Benitez all day long for me.
I can't stand him.
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Did someone say Tony Pulis??? Let's hope not
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Rafa Benitez all day long for me.
He's an extremely accomplished manager, but way out of our league.
Plus, isn't he doing a good job with Napoli - 3rd or so in the league I think?
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yep, he's not leaving a CL club for us at this stage of his managerial career. And yes, he's doing very well in Italy.
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Surely you can only really answer this when we know who owns the club?
If we're owned by someone similar to Lerner, then it'll be a Lambert-leveled manager.
If we're owned by the 5th richest man in the world (stop laughing at the back), then we'll have our pick of, more or less, anyone.
If we're owned by someone in the Yeung mould, then expect TSM back.
If we're still owned by Lerner come the start of next season, then we'll still be managed by PL.
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, but Stan's first season was also poor.
we knew Stan had something there thou , he was brilliant at Celtic .
In all fairness Petrov was given some unbelievable stick for a hell of a long time. This has been conveniently forgotten since his illness.
I think he got the stick you'd expect a non-delivering player to get. I'd go as far as to say he was really pretty poor for almost the entirety of his first two seasons with us. What that has got to do with his illness is beyond me - are people going to say "Well, he was crap for two years, but I hope he gets better"?
Also, if it's worth noting that, I recall when he signed for us, Celtic fans gave him loads of stick as he'd wanted out so quickly, he'd apparently spent their championship celebrations with a face like a smacked arse. They gave him plenty of stick at the time, but I doubt that really has any bearing on how they talk about him now, either.
I was talking about the way memories seem to have been fogged in regards to what Petrov did as a player. It won't take much searching on this forum to validate what I have said. Personally I thought he was one of our better players in the last 18 months of his career but I have had many a conversation with fans who thought he was shit who now think he was a fine player.
In my opinion, he contributed to us not pushing on under MON, he was too slow and not very inspirational in his play, but I would also say he was a major contributor to getting us out the shit after MON had left. He was a middle-of-the-league player, not one you'd have in a team looking to achieve top 4.
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I can't really remember Stan being singled out for that much abuse. He got stick for under-performing, although I also remember there were a fair amount of fans saying that he played an unsung role in the Villa midfield.
In any case, even if Stan was given dogs abuse (which he wasn't) that is completely exclusive to people not wanting him to die of cancer in his early 30's.
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Did someone say Tony Pulis??? Let's hope not
Why not? Look at the job he has done at Palace. To be honest our squad are not that much better than theirs. It won't happen, because he will be there next season but we could worse.
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Thomas Tuchel.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes. New owner looking for a safe pair of hands. Moyes wouldn't be my choice, but if you are a chairman who has just spent the best part of 200m you want to have some assurances that the next 50-100m you give to the manager in transfer fees and wages is spent with as little risk as possible. Or at least as responsibly as possible. He has significant PL experience and while he didn't succeed at Man U, was still in charge of one of the biggest teams in the world. He'll have gained some valuable experience from that. If you are looking for a comeback story, Moyes and Villa could be it.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes.
He's certain to be our manager at some point in the future. In the same way as there was no way Robbie Keane and Emile Heskey were going to go their entire careers without a spell at Villa, Moyes is in the same boat.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes.
He's certain to be our manager at some point in the future. In the same way as there was no way Robbie Keane and Emile Heskey were going to go their entire careers without a spell at Villa, Moyes is in the same boat.
fortunately Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy never made it
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I can't really remember Stan being singled out for that much abuse. He got stick for under-performing, although I also remember there were a fair amount of fans saying that he played an unsung role in the Villa midfield.
In any case, even if Stan was given dogs abuse (which he wasn't) that is completely exclusive to people not wanting him to die of cancer in his early 30's.
He got pelters at home to Newcastle one day where he was awful in the first half. Was taken off at half time and we hammered them in the second half afterwards. He had 2 very underwhelming seasons where he was carrying timber and struggling badly for stamina.
Got better when we played three in midfield next to Barry and whoever was the plus one at the time - Sidwell or Reo Coker. Later was very good next to Milner who was more mobile than Barry which helped Petrov more.
Lots of players have come back from very bad starts, Henderson is the prime example, even Delph at Villa. Remember how bad Delph was for a long time? Shows a lot of character but thats what a top professional should have in buckets.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes.
He's certain to be our manager at some point in the future. In the same way as there was no way Robbie Keane and Emile Heskey were going to go their entire careers without a spell at Villa, Moyes is in the same boat.
fortunately Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy never made it
Dunno about fortunately on the McCarthy one. If we'd spent £9m on him instead of Angel then I reckon we'd have done a lot better at the time.
Likewise when Blackburn bought him for £2.5m and we were spending our money on Marlon Harewood (even if they were a season apart).
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes.
He's certain to be our manager at some point in the future. In the same way as there was no way Robbie Keane and Emile Heskey were going to go their entire careers without a spell at Villa, Moyes is in the same boat.
fortunately Carlton Palmer and Benni McCarthy never made it
Big Zat did. Though we missed out on Muzzy Izzet.
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I'm still half expecting us to sign Steve Bull.
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No Shit to play alongside him...oh wait we have tons of him in our squad.
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Thomas Tuchel.
I'd go for him if we couldn't get Pochettino with Laudrup as Plan C.
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Laudrup would be a good choice too. I just hope than whoever the new owner is knows the difference between him and the shite options.
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If new owners are gonna invest heavily enough, they will go for the name manager who can bring new players with his name.
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Laudrup for me too.
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Wasn't Laudrup alleged to have lost interest in doing the job, therefore lost the dressing room and subsequently and rightly lost his job.
If so it would be a no from me.
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If we have money I'd like to see Villas-Boas have a go. Thought he did little wrong at Chelsea or Tottenham.
If not, then I'd go for Pulis. Simply to make sure we don't go down.
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Wasn't Laudrup alleged to have lost interest in doing the job, therefore lost the dressing room and subsequently and rightly lost his job.
If so it would be a no from me.
Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
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My choice would probably be Frank De Boer who should be gettable if the new owners promise him big enough warchest. Bernd Schuster also could be a good punt, but he has controversial side.
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I think any new owners for the first season will either keep Lambert and give him money to improve it, or install someone who knows the division.
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I can't really remember Stan being singled out for that much abuse. He got stick for under-performing, although I also remember there were a fair amount of fans saying that he played an unsung role in the Villa midfield.
In any case, even if Stan was given dogs abuse (which he wasn't) that is completely exclusive to people not wanting him to die of cancer in his early 30's.
He got pelters at home to Newcastle one day where he was awful in the first half. Was taken off at half time and we hammered them in the second half afterwards. He had 2 very underwhelming seasons where he was carrying timber and struggling badly for stamina.
Got better when we played three in midfield next to Barry and whoever was the plus one at the time - Sidwell or Reo Coker. Later was very good next to Milner who was more mobile than Barry which helped Petrov more.
Lots of players have come back from very bad starts, Henderson is the prime example, even Delph at Villa. Remember how bad Delph was for a long time? Shows a lot of character but thats what a top professional should have in buckets.
He was playing right midfield in this game, with Mellberg behind him. It was getting embarrassing and both were taken off at half time (remember one move breaking down when Mellberg tried to do a backheel).
I have no idea who I would pick as manager, I could see new owners going for Moyes though I'm not convinced.
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Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
I read that the Swansea board are very low key and supportive and that Laudrup must have really upset them for it to end the way it did.
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New owners will do their due diligence and realise quickly through conversation how things turned very sour against Lambert. I think they are going to come into this situation looking to galvanise the club. And even if on the surface it appears Lambert and Lerner are best mates, in business there is no such thing. He'll answer questions honestly if asked about the manager and I believe Lambert knows this too.
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Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
I read that the Swansea board are very low key and supportive and that Laudrup must have really upset them for it to end the way it did.
According to Wikipedia, he hasn't really lasted very long at any club except Brondby (his first job).
Getafe - 1 season, decent job, resigned
Spartak Moscow, 7 months, poor results - sacked
Mallorca - 1 season, decent job - resigned, bad relationship with DoF/board
Swansea - 1 season and a half, decent job at the start, sacked, rumoured fallout with board
Can't be a coincidence.
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Purely conjecture but I reckon Laudrup thought he'd be onto to bigger things after that first season with Swansea and it started going wrong when that didn't materialise for him.
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I can't really remember Stan being singled out for that much abuse. He got stick for under-performing, although I also remember there were a fair
In any case, even if Stan was given dogs abuse (which he wasn't) that is completely exclusive to people not wanting him to die of cancer in his early 30's.
If that was a reply to my post then you've misread what I wrote.
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Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
I read that the Swansea board are very low key and supportive and that Laudrup must have really upset them for it to end the way it did.
According to Wikipedia, he hasn't really lasted very long at any club except Brondby (his first job).
Getafe - 1 season, decent job, resigned
Spartak Moscow, 7 months, poor results - sacked
Mallorca - 1 season, decent job - resigned, bad relationship with DoF/board
Swansea - 1 season and a half, decent job at the start, sacked, rumoured fallout with board
Can't be a coincidence.
Yep, Laudrup only ever has one half decent season wherever he goes before it all goes tits up. Not sure why so many people on here would really want him. Is it just the League cup win?
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes. New owner looking for a safe pair of hands. Moyes wouldn't be my choice, but if you are a chairman who has just spent the best part of 200m you want to have some assurances that the next 50-100m you give to the manager in transfer fees and wages is spent with as little risk as possible. Or at least as responsibly as possible. He has significant PL experience and while he didn't succeed at Man U, was still in charge of one of the biggest teams in the world. He'll have gained some valuable experience from that. If you are looking for a comeback story, Moyes and Villa could be it.
If you had £100m to spend would you trust a bloke who spent £30m on Fellanni to spend it?
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes. New owner looking for a safe pair of hands. Moyes wouldn't be my choice, but if you are a chairman who has just spent the best part of 200m you want to have some assurances that the next 50-100m you give to the manager in transfer fees and wages is spent with as little risk as possible. Or at least as responsibly as possible. He has significant PL experience and while he didn't succeed at Man U, was still in charge of one of the biggest teams in the world. He'll have gained some valuable experience from that. If you are looking for a comeback story, Moyes and Villa could be it.
If you had £100m to spend would you trust a bloke who spent £30m on Fellanni to spend it?
Yes and I'd be more than happy to have Fellaini in our midfield.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes. New owner looking for a safe pair of hands. Moyes wouldn't be my choice, but if you are a chairman who has just spent the best part of 200m you want to have some assurances that the next 50-100m you give to the manager in transfer fees and wages is spent with as little risk as possible. Or at least as responsibly as possible. He has significant PL experience and while he didn't succeed at Man U, was still in charge of one of the biggest teams in the world. He'll have gained some valuable experience from that. If you are looking for a comeback story, Moyes and Villa could be it.
If you had £100m to spend would you trust a bloke who spent £30m on Fellanni to spend it?
Yes and I'd be more than happy to have Fellaini in our midfield.
Moyes paid all that money for Fellaini and played him out of position. Play him just off the striker and he'll score you goals.
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The more I think about the more I think it will be Moyes. New owner looking for a safe pair of hands. Moyes wouldn't be my choice, but if you are a chairman who has just spent the best part of 200m you want to have some assurances that the next 50-100m you give to the manager in transfer fees and wages is spent with as little risk as possible. Or at least as responsibly as possible. He has significant PL experience and while he didn't succeed at Man U, was still in charge of one of the biggest teams in the world. He'll have gained some valuable experience from that. If you are looking for a comeback story, Moyes and Villa could be it.
If you had £100m to spend would you trust a bloke who spent £30m on Fellanni to spend it?
Yes and I'd be more than happy to have Fellaini in our midfield.
Moyes paid all that money for Fellaini and played him out of position. Play him just off the striker and he'll score you goals.
Jeeps he (not that we could afford him) is exactly the type of player we miss. Scores goals from midfield, plays just off the striker and brings a certain amount of thuggery / physicality we do not have, in both penalty boxes
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Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
I read that the Swansea board are very low key and supportive and that Laudrup must have really upset them for it to end the way it did.
According to Wikipedia, he hasn't really lasted very long at any club except Brondby (his first job).
Getafe - 1 season, decent job, resigned
Spartak Moscow, 7 months, poor results - sacked
Mallorca - 1 season, decent job - resigned, bad relationship with DoF/board
Swansea - 1 season and a half, decent job at the start, sacked, rumoured fallout with board
Can't be a coincidence.
Yep, Laudrup only ever has one half decent season wherever he goes before it all goes tits up. Not sure why so many people on here would really want him. Is it just the League cup win?
No he also got them into mid-table which for Swansea is a decent finish. And if I remember they weren't in a terrible position when he got the sack. It does sound like a money issue to me, but I think if Swansea were going to progress than Laudrup had the right to ask for a bit more investment. I think he could do a good job for Villa personally.
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With all this going on we need to keep lambert in place until new owners are in. Could be weeks months or years. If the sale price is 200 , it needs another 100 thrown at it so we need someone with a min 300m burning a hole .
Please form a queue
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If the sale price is 200 , it needs another 100 thrown at it so we need someone with a min 300m burning a hole .
Please form a queue
This is the reason I'm not too confident of a quick sale.
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With all this going on we need to keep lambert in place until new owners are in. Could be weeks months or years. If the sale price is 200 , it needs another 100 thrown at it so we need someone with a min 300m burning a hole .
Please form a queue
With his record and with the fans having turned on him, Lambert still being manager next season is incredulous and yet because of how we are at the moment it's actually possible. The guy must have more lives than the proverbial cat.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
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Its quite possible, of course, that Randy may be giving both Lambert and Faulkner the push when they meet tonight, with a golden handshake to soften the blow. If that is the case the sale of the club must be in its final stages. Tomorrow could be interesting.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
They haven't done too badly in that time.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
Me neither. He can walk now with his CV intact and put a very positive spin on what he achieved here especially with all the background radiation.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
Me neither. He can walk now with his CV intact and put a very positive spin on what he achieved here especially with all the background radiation.
He'll get work too. He's now got a track record of managing in the top flight with little resource, and that will appeal to many a chairman.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
Me neither. He can walk now with his CV intact and put a very positive spin on what he achieved here especially with all the background radiation.
Thinking about it you are probably right. He can't be short of a few pennies so to resign and then give his side of the story would be his best option.
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He would walk into another job. Kept Norwich up, then us on a very tight wage budget and can happily point to his signings overall being way in the black if they were to be sold on. I would walk away if Lerner is not putting a penny in and it looks like dragging.
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With all this going on we need to keep lambert in place until new owners are in. Could be weeks months or years. If the sale price is 200 , it needs another 100 thrown at it so we need someone with a min 300m burning a hole .
Please form a queue
£100m thrown at it to do what? Get the right manager who knows what to do with the money and we'd be finishing eight places higher with £30m in transfer fees.
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And decent wages to match Dave.
I reckon you are willing to pay the wages I could get 6 ish players for 30m to take us easily into the top 10.
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I think we need 5 or 6 decent signings say £6m each so £36m , but then it's the wages -
4 year deals on a PL modest 40k a week = that's about £50m in basic wages plus the other bits - bonuses , insurance , etc,
Add in compo for Lambert and Co. And a new manager that's your £100m
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Lambert will probably know that he'll get turfed out by any new owner. The likelihood is damn near certain. I would be very surprised if he didn't walk before the team report back for pre-season. He won't want to have another season under Lerners constraints, which, if he's still at the helm, will be even tighter. I don't think Lambo will want to hang around just to get a severance package from the new owner, because who knows how long it will take. I think we'll hear an announcement shortly after Lambert gets back from the states following his meeting with Randy.
The quicker he gets out of here, the quicker he can get a new job elsewhere and have ample time to start shaping his squad at wherever he turns up...and if he wants Luna, Bowery, Sylla etc, then he's welcome to take them with him!
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He would walk into another job. Kept Norwich up, then us on a very tight wage budget and can happily point to his signings overall being way in the black if they were to be sold on. I would walk away if Lerner is not putting a penny in and it looks like dragging.
Walking away puts him in the shop window early in the summer but I cant see an EPL chairman being dumb enough to bring him in
Unable to manage his own staff, appalling coach, woeful communicator
Leeds or Glasgow Celtic - thats his level and that is where he will stay imo
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He may be advised to walk and play the constructive dismissal card ?
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He would walk into another job. Kept Norwich up, then us on a very tight wage budget and can happily point to his signings overall being way in the black if they were to be sold on. I would walk away if Lerner is not putting a penny in and it looks like dragging.
Walking away puts him in the shop window early in the summer but I cant see an EPL chairman being dumb enough to bring him in
Unable to manage his own staff, appalling coach, woeful communicator
Leeds or Glasgow Celtic - thats his level and that is where he will stay imo
I think he'd settle for trying to take a club up, rather than keep one from going down. And alternatively the Celtic opportunity would mean guaranteed trophies I suppose, so he might want to go back up there.
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I'm even beginning to think Celtic would be too big for him in terms of expectation and fan pressure, despite it being a one team league.
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Everton have been up for sale for 10 years.
And I can see another possible twist here, Lambert walking out and leaving us managerless and up for sale.
If I was him I wouldn't wait around to be honest.
They haven't done too badly in that time.
Not at all. They're very well run, recruited managers brilliantly and bought and sold well
That's the rub I think
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2 managers in that whole time helps. As has the emergence of Rooney, Barkley and Lescott with clever re-investment.
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In response to the OP, I haven't got a clue. I wanted Lambert so my opinion obviously isn't worth much!
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2 managers in that whole time helps. As has the emergence of Rooney, Barkley and Lescott with clever re-investment.
and the fact that the Chairman,Bill Kenright, has no intention of selling whatsoever. As a man who runs a successful empire in the entertainment world he knows how to survive when times are not so good.
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He won't go anywhere until the Culverhouse and Karsa business is resolved.
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I think we need 5 or 6 decent signings say £6m each so £36m , but then it's the wages -
4 year deals on a PL modest 40k a week = that's about £50m in basic wages plus the other bits - bonuses , insurance , etc,
Add in compo for Lambert and Co. And a new manager that's your £100m
Yeah but we'd also have 4 years of income for that period from TV and other revenues so the funding of any wages will not necesarily be paid by the new owners.
According to the following link we recieved £73m last year for TV money and placement winnings. Any idea what we managed last year or in the last set of accounts?
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/05/12/revealed-premier-league-prize-tv-money-what-did-your-club-receiv/
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Yes, there was a very scathing piece in the Guardian about that, which seemed to come from players at the club. I'd have fancied Laudrup as our appointment right up until I read that, at which point I realised he'd actually be the last thing we'd need.
I read that the Swansea board are very low key and supportive and that Laudrup must have really upset them for it to end the way it did.
According to Wikipedia, he hasn't really lasted very long at any club except Brondby (his first job).
Getafe - 1 season, decent job, resigned
Spartak Moscow, 7 months, poor results - sacked
Mallorca - 1 season, decent job - resigned, bad relationship with DoF/board
Swansea - 1 season and a half, decent job at the start, sacked, rumoured fallout with board
Can't be a coincidence.
Yep, Laudrup only ever has one half decent season wherever he goes before it all goes tits up. Not sure why so many people on here would really want him. Is it just the League cup win?
No he also got them into mid-table which for Swansea is a decent finish. And if I remember they weren't in a terrible position when he got the sack. It does sound like a money issue to me, but I think if Swansea were going to progress than Laudrup had the right to ask for a bit more investment. I think he could do a good job for Villa personally.
They were only two points above the relegation zone after a bad run of results so they were in a pretty bad position when he left. After everything I've heard about his lack of commitment and his track record at his other clubs, I hope we look elsewhere personally.
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Swansea simply didn't have the depth of squad to cope with playing in the Europa league. Laudrup delivers a good brand of football. Pulis and Allardyce deliver results. With the quality of squad we have the latter two would be a better fit, but i'd bet that the majority of Villa fans would be dismayed at the prospect of their management. What is the expectancy these days? Villa are and always will be a great club, but it's been years since we have have had a team that matches that.
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Swansea simply didn't have the depth of squad to cope with playing in the Europa league. Laudrup delivers a good brand of football. Pulis and Allardyce deliver results. With the quality of squad we have the latter two would be a better fit, but i'd bet that the majority of Villa fans would be dismayed at the prospect of their management. What is the expectancy these days? Villa are and always will be a great club, but it's been years since we have have had a team that matches that.
Yep, I'd be mortified with Pulis and even more so with Allardyce.
I said on the Villa-Swansea pre match thread this season that I'd jump at the chance to take Laudrup and shortly afterwards he got the boot.
I'd still love him as our manager, if we do have masses of money to spend in the summer then an international name as manager would certainly help attract international class players. The brand of football he plays is also something we have seen all to scarcely down VP.
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I'd take Laudrup for 12 months (or even 6) over the pish we've had in recent years.
Two years of Lambert would almost qualify as stability these days. But if that's stability, you can shove it.
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I don't get it with Laudrup. Swansea have been playing that way for years, what was it he bought to the job that makes him standout?
And doesn't the fact one the most sensible and successful boards in British football of recent times saw fit to fuck him off mid season tell you something might not be right?
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He won't go anywhere until the Culverhouse and Karsa business is resolved.
Does anybody know when this matter will get resolved?
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He put a few noses out of joint with his behaviour last summer.
Essentially, he was angling after more funding and used his popularity with the fans (and other clubs owners) at the time to get it.
Relations were frosty with the Chief Exec since then, so -similar to BFR under Herbert- as soon as they hit a sticky patch, he was ditched.
It's hard to escape the fact that he barely stays more than one year in a role. Some of that has been of his doing, some of it has been down to the circumstances at the club at the time. You could spin it and say the fact that he wanted to stay on at Swansea for at least a second year illustrates he is aware the perception of him as a mercenary, and wanted to do something about it.
Again, I'd prefer a manager who could come in and guarantee 3/4 years of tenure minimum. But you rarely get that these days. And if given a straight choice of a year of someone like Laudrup over two years of a McLeish/ Lambert-type appointment, it really wouldn't be a hard decision at all.
It would be nice to get back to something as simple as having the attacking intent to try to win football matches at home.
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He put a few noses out of joint with his behaviour last summer.
Essentially, he was angling after more funding and used his popularity with the fans (and other clubs owners) at the time to get it.
Relations were frosty with the Chief Exec since then, so -similar to BFR under Herbert- as soon as they hit a sticky patch, he was ditched.
It's hard to escape the fact that he barely stays more than one year in a role. Some of that has been of his doing, some of it has been down to the circumstances at the club at the time. You could spin it and say the fact that he wanted to stay on at Swansea for at least a second year illustrates he is aware the perception of him as a mercenary, and wanted to do something about it.
Again, I'd prefer a manager who could come in and guarantee 3/4 years of tenure minimum. But you rarely get that these days. And if given a straight choice of a year of someone like Laudrup over two years of a McLeish/ Lambert-type appointment, it really wouldn't be a hard decision at all.
It would be nice to get back to something as simple as having the attacking intent to try to win football matches at home.
In a straight choice I'd agree.
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Swansea simply didn't have the depth of squad to cope with playing in the Europa league. Laudrup delivers a good brand of football. Pulis and Allardyce deliver results. With the quality of squad we have the latter two would be a better fit, but i'd bet that the majority of Villa fans would be dismayed at the prospect of their management. What is the expectancy these days? Villa are and always will be a great club, but it's been years since we have have had a team that matches that.
Yep, I'd be mortified with Pulis and even more so with Allardyce.
I said on the Villa-Swansea pre match thread this season that I'd jump at the chance to take Laudrup and shortly afterwards he got the boot.
I'd still love him as our manager, if we do have masses of money to spend in the summer then an international name as manager would certainly help attract international class players. The brand of football he plays is also something we have seen all to scarcely down VP.
Why would we be mortified with Pulis? He did a tremendous job with establishing Stoke as an ever present PL team. His foundations led to a couple of canny signings making Hughes look like a genius. Wouldnt it be nice to have a manager that leaves us something good for the next manager instead of a couple of ominous looking turds down the back of the freezer. He went into Palace and turned a dead cert relegation team into mid table with practically no cash. Not having cash is likely to be an issue at our place as well at the moment. He organises defences. We havent appeared to do that for decades. He doesnt get relegated. That means something to us at the moment, because we are in for a tough year(s). (He also knows how to use "wingers")
While im not saying he is a Champions league manager, he is shrewd, aggressive and organised. I think he is very underrated, and would go a long way to establishing the fortress at Villa Park we dream about. Looking down on Pulis is a poor attitude in my opinion. If i had the job of finding a new gaffer, he would certainly be in my reckoning
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He could get rid of the fucking cap for starters. How old is he again?
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Cherie Lunghi.
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Cherie Lunghi.
Lunghi had more flare ups in the changing rooms than Sir Alex. It'd never work. I'll stick my tin hat on now but how about Steve McLaren? The guy is a coach first and foremost which would be a big shock to the lads but they'd adapt.
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He could get rid of the fucking cap for starters. How old is he again?
He could wear a fucking bonnet for all I care if he got us safely away from relegation before the end of April. Besides that it'd look ace.
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It's funny how people say that all Hughes needed to do was essentially put a cherry on top of Pulis' cake at Stoke with a couple of new players and good football was easy. The question should be, why didn't Pulis do that? I only know one Stokie, but he tells me all the time how much better it is and how much more fun.
I will say this for Pulis, though - he's clearly adaptable to some extent. He employed many of his trademarks at Palace, with the defensive organisation and so forth, but he didn't have the giants he'd had at Stoke for his apparently preferred long-ball game - he had Gollum's collection of pipedream skill-midgets. Therefore he got them playing organised at the back and good on the counter, and not many long balls to a target man, which is fair enough. The trouble is, that's what our current manager does (aside from the defensive organisation), and it's boring as hell and I, for one, have had enough of that down at Villa Park.
The biggest football club in the West Midlands, let alone the country's second city, should not be dreaming of playing it safe. I know that sounds perilously close to the 'but we're Aston Villa' argument, but I don't care. I want us to have just a bit more ambition than that.
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Two words: Howard Wilkinson.
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He could get rid of the fucking cap for starters. How old is he again?
He could wear a fucking bonnet for all I care if he got us safely away from relegation before the end of April. Besides that it'd look ace.
Fair enough, but it has to be a bonnet. I'm not softening my stance on the cap.
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He could get rid of the fucking cap for starters. How old is he again?
I'd ban baseball caps full stop. They're fine if you're American, but look ridiculous on anyone this side of the Atlantic.
As for Pulis as a manager - well he's done very well this season but it won't be long till he reverts to type and the ball spends 99% of the time sailing over your head.
A big no thanks from me!
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Caps are ok for golf. Otherwise not really a British thing is it. Yes, and let's not pretend Pulis won't fall back on who he is eventually. I'd hope that our next manager manages and dresses from the 21st century.
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Caps are ok for golf. Otherwise not really a British thing is it. Yes, and let's not pretend Pulis won't fall back on who he is eventually. I'd hope that our next manager manages and dresses from the 21st century.
Apart from his 19th century bonnet, obviously.
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Caps are ok for golf. Otherwise not really a British thing is it. Yes, and let's not pretend Pulis won't fall back on who he is eventually. I'd hope that our next manager manages and dresses from the 21st century.
Apart from his 19th century bonnet, obviously.
I am hoping that George Washington takes over and writes it into the contract for all coaching staff. It would be a real signal of intent. That and he could arm our players with bayonets to give us some advantage at Villa Park.
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It's funny how people say that all Hughes needed to do was essentially put a cherry on top of Pulis' cake at Stoke with a couple of new players and good football was easy. The question should be, why didn't Pulis do that? I only know one Stokie, but he tells me all the time how much better it is and how much more fun.
Still think he would have been a good appointment for us the summer when O'Neill started playing his face before leaving in pre season. He's done a good job at Stoke and I think with a bit of money to spend in the summer, he'll get them into the top ten next season. His teams are built on the same foundations as teams managed by the likes of Allardyce, Pulis, Bruce etc (well organised, defensively strong, good set pieces), but he seems to add a little more in terms of playing style. A more modern MON.
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I don't like Hughes that much. I'm not entirely sure what his style actually is (other than vaguely more fun than his predecessor's), and he's a really prickly twat.
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Swansea simply didn't have the depth of squad to cope with playing in the Europa league. Laudrup delivers a good brand of football. Pulis and Allardyce deliver results. With the quality of squad we have the latter two would be a better fit, but i'd bet that the majority of Villa fans would be dismayed at the prospect of their management. What is the expectancy these days? Villa are and always will be a great club, but it's been years since we have have had a team that matches that.
Yep, I'd be mortified with Pulis and even more so with Allardyce.
I said on the Villa-Swansea pre match thread this season that I'd jump at the chance to take Laudrup and shortly afterwards he got the boot.
I'd still love him as our manager, if we do have masses of money to spend in the summer then an international name as manager would certainly help attract international class players. The brand of football he plays is also something we have seen all to scarcely down VP.
Why would we be mortified with Pulis? He did a tremendous job with establishing Stoke as an ever present PL team. His foundations led to a couple of canny signings making Hughes look like a genius. Wouldnt it be nice to have a manager that leaves us something good for the next manager instead of a couple of ominous looking turds down the back of the freezer. He went into Palace and turned a dead cert relegation team into mid table with practically no cash. Not having cash is likely to be an issue at our place as well at the moment. He organises defences. We havent appeared to do that for decades. He doesnt get relegated. That means something to us at the moment, because we are in for a tough year(s). (He also knows how to use "wingers")
While im not saying he is a Champions league manager, he is shrewd, aggressive and organised. I think he is very underrated, and would go a long way to establishing the fortress at Villa Park we dream about. Looking down on Pulis is a poor attitude in my opinion. If i had the job of finding a new gaffer, he would certainly be in my reckoning
He's also had a song written about him:
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I don't like Hughes that much. I'm not entirely sure what his style actually is (other than vaguely more fun than his predecessor's), and he's a really prickly twat.
Postmodern British?
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I don't like Hughes that much. I'm not entirely sure what his style actually is (other than vaguely more fun than his predecessor's), and he's a really prickly twat.
Postmodern British?
Looking good in comparison to his predecessors.
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Swansea simply didn't have the depth of squad to cope with playing in the Europa league. Laudrup delivers a good brand of football. Pulis and Allardyce deliver results. With the quality of squad we have the latter two would be a better fit, but i'd bet that the majority of Villa fans would be dismayed at the prospect of their management. What is the expectancy these days? Villa are and always will be a great club, but it's been years since we have have had a team that matches that.
Yep, I'd be mortified with Pulis and even more so with Allardyce.
I said on the Villa-Swansea pre match thread this season that I'd jump at the chance to take Laudrup and shortly afterwards he got the boot.
I'd still love him as our manager, if we do have masses of money to spend in the summer then an international name as manager would certainly help attract international class players. The brand of football he plays is also something we have seen all to scarcely down VP.
Why would we be mortified with Pulis? He did a tremendous job with establishing Stoke as an ever present PL team. His foundations led to a couple of canny signings making Hughes look like a genius. Wouldnt it be nice to have a manager that leaves us something good for the next manager instead of a couple of ominous looking turds down the back of the freezer. He went into Palace and turned a dead cert relegation team into mid table with practically no cash. Not having cash is likely to be an issue at our place as well at the moment. He organises defences. We havent appeared to do that for decades. He doesnt get relegated. That means something to us at the moment, because we are in for a tough year(s). (He also knows how to use "wingers")
While im not saying he is a Champions league manager, he is shrewd, aggressive and organised. I think he is very underrated, and would go a long way to establishing the fortress at Villa Park we dream about. Looking down on Pulis is a poor attitude in my opinion. If i had the job of finding a new gaffer, he would certainly be in my reckoning
I'm not sure establishing stoke in the Prem is that great an achievement considering he outspent every other club bar City and Chelsea over the course of his tenure. Despite that, he never managed a top half finish, something Hughes has managed in his first season there with largely the same players.
No arguing over what he's done at Palace though. I thought they were dead and buried no matter who took charge.
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I thought we were dead and buried too, but look what happened; Lambert kept us up! How he didn't get the MOTY gong is beyond my comprehension. No money, the tweedles for assistants, injuries, loss of form, bad weather in the early autumn and then he wrong type of grass scandal early Spring. Absolute travesty.
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Scolari after the World Cup.
If he's still unavailable, Gene Hackman then.
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Scolari after the World Cup.
If he's still unavailable, Gene Hackman then.
Hackman has good French connections.
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I'd ban baseball caps full stop. They're fine if you're American, but look ridiculous on anyone this side of the Atlantic.
We're veering way off topic here, but what headwear would you recommend for a follically challenged Englishman when out in the sun? A knotted hanky perhaps?
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I'd ban baseball caps full stop. They're fine if you're American, but look ridiculous on anyone this side of the Atlantic.
We're veering way off topic here, but what headwear would you recommend for a follically challenged Englishman when out in the sun? A knotted hanky perhaps?
Topper.
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A knotted hanky was good enough for my dad...until a seagull shit on him on Saundersfoot beach...! The hanky didn't offer much protection so a baseball cap was quickly purchased.
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Was a Laudrup fan then read a piece about the Swansea Rodgers-Laudrup reign - can't remember where I read it.
The gist was that for Laudrup's last 38 games (i.e. a season) they totalled 33 points or so. The article argued that their good start under him was due to them still playing the Rodgers way, once he fully took the reins their record was far less impressive. Would like to see more analysis but this cooled my ardour towards the Danish one.
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Ancelotti for me. If Spurs fan's think they can nab him - why can't we. Failing that, Kevin Turvey.
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Scolari after the World Cup.
If he's still unavailable, Gene Hackman then.
Hackman has good French connections.
I love Scalari. A complete fruit cake but wonderful and clever with it. The thought of him turning up at Villa Park and chinning Mourinho when the former Special One opens his mouth once too much, would be a joy.
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Scolari after the World Cup.
If he's still unavailable, Gene Hackman then.
Hackman has good French connections.
He might not go for it but there's no harm in having the conversation.
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I'd ban baseball caps full stop. They're fine if you're American, but look ridiculous on anyone this side of the Atlantic.
I pretty much agree, with a few exceptions.
Children up to the age of about 14, I have no problem with them wearing them, so long as they are worn at the correct orientation (ie not pointing to the side like you're in some sort of shit 1980s rap act). Baseball caps on adults, though, I find totally unacceptable.
As are replica shirts (retro are OK) on anyone over the age of 18 who is not a professional footballer, going about his day to day business.
Tell you the most depressing place in Europe? Alicante airport. Full of fat, tattoo covered idiots wearing replica shirts, stinking of fags and drinking lager at 9am. On the way back from a week in Benidorm.
Oh, and that is men AND women.
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I agree with all of that, but the thing that really irritates me about baseball caps, irrespective of nationality or gender, is when they are worn back to front. I've simply never understood that.
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If you wear them back to front you don't get the back of ya neck burnt do you Simples
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I agree with all of that, but the thing that really irritates me about baseball caps, irrespective of nationality or gender, is when they are worn back to front. I've simply never understood that.
I reckon it started because players will have done it when they were first introduced. Think about it, if you're a catcher in the deep with the ball coming down towards you why would you want a peak of a cap obscuring your view. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure if you found old photos of early baseball games it will have been common. After that the trend becomes established because people want to look the same as the players. The more modern interpretation of it and the associations with 80s rappers is just an extension of that.
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thanks for that. I now know why but it still looks naff.
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I agree completely.
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Baseball cap possession should be made illegal.
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Baseball cap possession should be made illegal.
This must be the first ever time that Pulis has been associated with 'possession'.
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it's fine for golf. What I hate is wankers who wear white trainers with jeans, white socks at any time other than playing a sport and ball caps with a suit and tie.
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Ronald Koeman would be of interest if lambert is going.
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I've recently purchased a baseball cap, £5 from Next, i'ts for days when my hair is too long and I hate having my hair cut so i will wear it often. I think I look ok in it but I suppose our Tony does as well.
Anyway, Pulis as Villa manager, no thanks.
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I had a drink with a mate from Brittany today. He reckons that people of his generation (b. 1977) who regularly wear/wore baseball caps are mostly bald.
On occasion, I do wear my AVFC Lions cap when working out in the hot sun (garden etc.).
I'm 48 and have all my hair. Just saying.
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I don't think we'd be getting a superstar name just because we're getting new owners, however exciting and apprehensive it is right about now. Whoever comes in will want in the first instance to get some to stability into the playing side of things. That type of manager isn't the ones people have been mentioning. We're going to have to look closer to home. There are not many options open to us really and nobody is a stand out go and get manager that's within our reach. That's why, and I'll be shot down in flames here, I'd go for a Pulis. He's known for making hus defence very hard to play against and his teams are tight and organised. With the attacking options open to him, better than he's had anywhere I think he'd play a system based on the players and that we'd see a good attacking unit with a cohesive attacking front. at worst if it didn't come off we'd still be tight at the back and wouldn't be shipping 3, 4, or 5 goals all too regularly. For that reason, and given that he'd strengthen the back I'd get him in. And as has been said, he's never been relegated. Right now we need one of them.
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It brings us back to the baseball cap problem though.
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Paul Clement with Southgate above him. Little/GT providing yoda style advice to them both.
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It brings us back to the baseball cap problem though.
Cut his head off.
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It has gone quiet about Frank De Boer going to Spurs, so I wonder if we could approach him if the proposed takeover goes through.
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I don't think we'd be getting a superstar name just because we're getting new owners, however exciting and apprehensive it is right about now. Whoever comes in will want in the first instance to get some to stability into the playing side of things. That type of manager isn't the ones people have been mentioning. We're going to have to look closer to home. There are not many options open to us really and nobody is a stand out go and get manager that's within our reach. That's why, and I'll be shot down in flames here, I'd go for a Pulis. He's known for making hus defence very hard to play against and his teams are tight and organised. With the attacking options open to him, better than he's had anywhere I think he'd play a system based on the players and that we'd see a good attacking unit with a cohesive attacking front. at worst if it didn't come off we'd still be tight at the back and wouldn't be shipping 3, 4, or 5 goals all too regularly. For that reason, and given that he'd strengthen the back I'd get him in. And as has been said, he's never been relegated. Right now we need one of them.
I sort of agree with that although there must be alternatives in the Pulis mould. The thing is I don't think it's reasonable to expect that we'll go instantly from relegation fodder to fast, free flowing sexy football. What we need are two or three unspectacular solid seasons. I thought Lambert was brought in to do that but he surprised everyone by not being able to. If we can stabilise first then the exciting stuff can follow and indeed we might be better placed to attract a top drawer manager at that point.
Of course if we end up with a megabucks owner that process might be speeded up considerably.
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I think we can stabilise with an approach with more aesthetic potential (without wishing to sound like that guy from The Thick of It). The possession-based thing can be incredibly boring when it's not going well, but can be just as defensively solid just because you have the ball and they don't. I think that approach is a better base from which to develop into sexy rather than Pulisian/Allardycean approach.
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I think we can stabilise with an approach with more aesthetic potential (without wishing to sound like that guy from The Thick of It). The possession-based thing can be incredibly boring when it's not going well, but can be just as defensively solid just because you have the ball and they don't. I think that approach is a better base from which to develop into sexy rather than Pulisian/Allardycean approach.
True but fuck me with the squad we currently have such aesthetics (and I totally agree with that being the correct ultimate goal) will have to be introduced very very slowly.
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The absolute worst thing we could do would be to appoint yet another manager from a time gone by.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
That's great for the situation they were in when he came, but it's really not the basis on which to build a club in the modern era.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
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I think we can stabilise with an approach with more aesthetic potential (without wishing to sound like that guy from The Thick of It). The possession-based thing can be incredibly boring when it's not going well, but can be just as defensively solid just because you have the ball and they don't. I think that approach is a better base from which to develop into sexy rather than Pulisian/Allardycean approach.
maybe so but we're nowhere near being able to mend everything straight away. let's get stability first and foremost before but looking for big changes.
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Taylor, Atkinson, Little. We were blessed to have a run of managers that all loved the fabric of this great club. Where can we find the next batch? It's been too long.
What's Martin Laursen upto these days??
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Erm, I'm obviously not a moderator or anything so forgive me, but can we please keep the new manager chat to a minimum when there's a debate about caps ongoing? I shouldn't need to say anything really.
I think caps are mainly for knobheads but there's something about Tony Pulis that tells me I'm safe.
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I think we can stabilise with an approach with more aesthetic potential (without wishing to sound like that guy from The Thick of It). The possession-based thing can be incredibly boring when it's not going well, but can be just as defensively solid just because you have the ball and they don't. I think that approach is a better base from which to develop into sexy rather than Pulisian/Allardycean approach.
True but fuck me with the squad we currently have such aesthetics (and I totally agree with that being the correct ultimate goal) will have to be introduced very very slowly.
Or we need a new squad. Very very quickly.
It can be done on a budget, and everyone points to Swansea to show how better style can be done on a budget, but they tend to forget that Swansea were able to hone that style against worse opponents in the lower leagues before they were good enough at it to compete in the Premier League. The style is worth the time put in, and some results are instantly visible, but the whole turnover of the thing does take a little time and we don't have that. So we need new players to help. But I don't think we need that much change. I actually think that would be more stable, because it's long term, than the short term results-football of of a Pulis and an Allardyce. It's visionless, and that's Lambert's main problem as well.
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The absolute worst thing we could do would be to appoint yet another manager from a time gone by.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
That's great for the situation they were in when he came, but it's really not the basis on which to build a club in the modern era.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
If we don't get taken over though we're going to need someone effective in charge. Fuck the aesthetics then, it'll be all about the staying up. But if that is what happens we might even struggle to attract even a top quality hoof merchant.*
*If that isn't a contradiction in terms.
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The absolute worst thing we could do would be to appoint yet another manager from a time gone by.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
That's great for the situation they were in when he came, but it's really not the basis on which to build a club in the modern era.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
If we don't get taken over though we're going to need someone effective in charge. Fuck the aesthetics then, it'll be all about the staying up. But if that is what happens we might even struggle to attract even a top quality hoof merchant.
I'm assuming we get taken over by someone who'll spend even a little more than Lambert. If we don't get taken over I don't think any manager will be able to do any better than scrape us safe.
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The absolute worst thing we could do would be to appoint yet another manager from a time gone by.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
That's great for the situation they were in when he came, but it's really not the basis on which to build a club in the modern era.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
If we don't get taken over though we're going to need someone effective in charge. Fuck the aesthetics then, it'll be all about the staying up. But if that is what happens we might even struggle to attract even a top quality hoof merchant.*
*If that isn't a contradiction in terms.
If we are going to wind up scuttling around that end of the table, then really, it doesn't matter.
I honestly would rather be in the Championship and playing a bit of watchable football than spend three years chasing 38 points with Allardyce in charge and Kevin Nolan looking for the knock downs from Bowery. I've seen enough mind bogglingly shit football for a lifetime in the last few years.
It's meant to be fun.
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Haven't read the whole thread, so has anyone mentioned Guidolin? He'd be my choice.
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The absolute worst thing we could do would be to appoint yet another manager from a time gone by.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
That's great for the situation they were in when he came, but it's really not the basis on which to build a club in the modern era.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
If we don't get taken over though we're going to need someone effective in charge. Fuck the aesthetics then, it'll be all about the staying up. But if that is what happens we might even struggle to attract even a top quality hoof merchant.
I'm assuming we get taken over by someone who'll spend even a little more than Lambert. If we don't get taken over I don't think any manager will be able to do any better than scrape us safe.
That's true, pretty much.
Lambert should have done better than he has, but let's be honest, if we are lumbered with a Lidl level wages policy, we are never going to amount to much more than we are now. That's easily the most important thing that needs to change, far more important than who is in the manager's seat.
Which is why the whole Lambert in or out argument doesn't really do much for me at the moment. It is just unimportant in comparison to the ownership stuff.
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Haven't read the whole thread, so has anyone mentioned Guidolin? He'd be my choice.
Is he part of the Lute family?
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To be fair Pulis's brand of football could even look attractive compared to Lambert.
I would say that someone like him (though Moyes would be more enticing) would be ideal if the takeover hasn't happened. Getting our current batch well organised will take us a long way, and we've never really looked very well organised under Lambert (clueless is more the word).
When we do get taken over, whenever that may be, that is the point at which rebuilding should start and a change in emphasis, and a more modern approach to our football. Under Lerner it aint gonna happen.
If we still have Randy at the club, I'd rather go into the new season with a solid manager, who's got a bit of nous. It amazes me that West Ham fans moan about Allardyce. He's made a complete yoyo club pretty safe in this league. They've sacrificed the sort of football that West Ham were traditionally known for (or perhaps what the WH fans would like everyone else believe they were) but they've finished above us both seasons since returning to the top flight and they've suffered just as badly from injuries. Not that I'd want Allardyce here saying that. But if we took him on, though I wouldn't be too excited about the brand of football we'd be watching, I wouldn't be too concerned about relegation. You always sense with a Big Sam side that even if they hit a rough patch, they'll always pull it round and find some form when they need to. And just ask Bolton, Blackburn and Newcastle whether him leaving was good for them in the immediate future. He's probably gonna get the heave ho, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them drop next year. If they drop down playing attractively there'd probably be Hammers fans happier than staying up ugly to be honest.
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Haven't read the whole thread, so has anyone mentioned Guidolin? He'd be my choice.
Is he part of the Lute family?
Francesco Guidolin the pretty excellent manager of Udinese, who would be good in footballing terms but might be one of those casualties of the culture shift - not speaking the language, not being used to working without a DoF, etc.
And he's a member of the lute family.
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
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I'm with you Paulie. Life's hard enough, and we're all going to die however Villa played, so why not make it more enjoyable along the way?
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Agreed.
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Well I would also hope that we're in for better times. If we're gonna carry on with tight constraints and have to play ugly, then there's better options than Lambert, but of course it's just a slightly less painful season we'd have to put up with.
As for the Hammers fans, if they'd rather go back to yo-yoing, so be it.
Toon fans I always felt turned Allardyce far too soon. They were safe as houses under him. They would have been mid-table. Instead they sacked him and then ended up going down the year after. They only won 4 games for the rest of the season after he left, so without his points on the board might have gone that year. As for the Chicken peddlers at Blackburn, they thought they could do better but were very wrong indeed. For all his critics it doesn't often work out that the grass is greener without Fat Sam.
Of course this is more of an either/or discussion. I would have him over Lambert, but it's akin to having to choose a night of passion with Janet Street Porter or Anne Widdicombe.
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Francesco Guidolin the pretty excellent manager of Udinese, who would be good in footballing terms but might be one of those casualties of the culture shift - not speaking the language, not being used to working without a DoF, etc.
And he's a member of the lute family.
So a bit like a guitar then.
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Francesco Guidolin the pretty excellent manager of Udinese, who would be good in footballing terms but might be one of those casualties of the culture shift - not speaking the language, not being used to working without a DoF, etc.
And he's a member of the lute family.
So a bit like a guitar then.
Like a guitar, but Italian, with a smaller body and a longer neck. Much like, I dunno, someone? There must be some Italian person who corresponds to that description.
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Viola. He's someone's cousin.
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Anyone is better than lambert.
He's so dull and clueless.
He's worse than oleary
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Anyone is better than lambert.
He's so dull and clueless.
He's worse than oleary
No, that's just fucking wrong, like your ITK.
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Big Sam would've been a better appointment at the time than TSM and even you could argue Lambert.
Not now.
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Has Christophe Gaultier been discussed?
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Has Christophe Gaultier been discussed?
Yep, linked last week to us and the barcodes.
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Has Christophe Gaultier been discussed?
Yep, linked last week to us and the barcodes.
Well Villa are "in the driving seat" now apparently:
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/05/16/ag-why-aston-villa-fans-should-be-hoping-lille-finish-third-on-s/?
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Has Christophe Gaultier been discussed?
Yep, linked last week to us and the barcodes.
Well Villa are "in the driving seat" now apparently:
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/05/16/ag-why-aston-villa-fans-should-be-hoping-lille-finish-third-on-s/?
Ah, yes the good old "driving seat". Which would indicate we have some control on the situation, and given that we chairman looking to sell and a manager still in a job seems a bit advanced. I do love press speak. Favourite one is always how teams "brace themselves" for a bid during the transfer window.
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I want Admin as manager with London Boy as his assistant. They know everything and one of them thinks he's God which is good enough for me.
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Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
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Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
His football's boring. There are other managers who'd do just as well as him but less boringly, and with less of a feeling about them that they're from football's past.
Having seen what this particular 'school' of management produces for the last three years, I'm absolutely amazed that people still think Moyes would be the answer. If you're entering a Formula One race on a brown horse, you don't swap it for a black horse just because that was the one which won the horse-races. This club is miles behind many, many others and we need to catch up.
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Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
I really don't get the appeal of Moyes, his football is like watching paint dry. Although the last few years down B6 have been pretty dire if we're talking about a take over and progressing to where we want to be then we should be looking for better than Moyes.
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Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
What reputation are we getting?
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His football's boring. There are other managers who'd do just as well as him but less boringly, and with less of a feeling about them that they're from football's past.
I agree with most of that but not the bit in bold. I'm not sure how you can predict that without knowing a) how Moyes would do, or b) how these unnamed others would do.
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Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
What reputation are we getting?
Well according to the media we didn't want Shteeve, then GED, then Eck and now Lambo.
Oh and we hounded DOL out too !
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I think the point is people would like to see something a bit different if we're going to be under new ownership. Moyes is a good manager, but he has an upper limit similar to O'Neill and maybe Lambert with more money. It would be nice to have a manager who could get us playing exciting football and with money could get us pushing higher up the league. That obviously completely depends on what type of owners we end up getting.
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His football's boring. There are other managers who'd do just as well as him but less boringly, and with less of a feeling about them that they're from football's past.
I agree with most of that but not the bit in bold. I'm not sure how you can predict that without knowing a) how Moyes would do, or b) how these unnamed others would do.
Ok, there are other managers about whom it is perfectly conceivable to project that they could do as well as Moyes. Without wanting to labour the point.
Are people really turning noses up at Moyes !?
Blimey , no wonder we are getting a reputation. If the press get hold of this they'll have a field day.
What reputation are we getting?
Well according to the media we didn't want Shteeve, then GED, then Eck and now Lambo.
Oh and we hounded DOL out too !
Indeed, poor DOL. All he ever did was waste money, play crap football and directly insult the fans as a whole. And we forced Houllier to have a heart-attack, and always hated Eck because he was a Bluenose, as we continue to hate Ron Saunders. I tell you, that Joe Lovejoy article is one of the crappest things I've ever seen.
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Ok, there are other managers about whom it is perfectly conceivable to project that they could do as well as Moyes. Without wanting to labour the point.
Such as...
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Ok, there are other managers about whom it is perfectly conceivable to project that they could do as well as Moyes. Without wanting to labour the point.
Such as...
Murat Yakin, Christophe Gaultier, Rene Girard, Vicenzo Montella, Frank de Boer, Gus Poyet, and others. They might all be disasters, but so might Moyes be - I think the exposure of his way of playing has been extremely damaging to him. We saw United have very similar problems to the ones we usually have - crap at home, unable to break teams down, no movement, reliance on high balls - only they have much better players so finished much higher up the table.
Also, a list such as that one is entirely dependent on our being taken over, as it wouldn't really matter who's in charge if the same regime and policy continues. In fact, were that the case, I can't see Moyes taking the job either.
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Murat Yakin, Christophe Gaultier, Rene Girard, Vicenzo Montella, Frank de Boer, Gus Poyet, and others. They might all be disasters, but so might Moyes be - I think the exposure of his way of playing has been extremely damaging to him. We saw United have very similar problems to the ones we usually have - crap at home, unable to break teams down, no movement, reliance on high balls - only they have much better players so finished much higher up the table.
Also, a list such as that one is entirely dependent on our being taken over, as it wouldn't really matter who's in charge if the same regime and policy continues. In fact, were that the case, I can't see Moyes taking the job either.
Ta for that. I'm not against a European manager coming in, in fact I'm all for it. But I don't think Moyes would be a disaster. Okay his brand of football might not be to your taste, or even mine, but the very least you can say is that you know what you'll be getting: a solid, experienced, effective manager. Some might point to the fact that he hasn't won anything but let's face it we're unlikely to be winning anything in the near future anyway. I think there's something to be said for a period of quiet improvement before we take the plunge on a European manager with no experience of the Premier League and a style of play that our squad will think has come from Mars.
However, like I said before, if the takeover happens and is of the megabucks variety all that can be brought forward as we'll be able to afford players who are already comfortable with a more progressive style. Most of our current squad seem unable to cope with even Lambert's rudimentary stuff.
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I don't think he'd be a disaster either. I just think he'd be more of the same, and if the Big Investors are coming in I'd rather have a manager with a bit of vision. We found out last time the dangers of blowing all hopes on the wrong guy. Should the status quo remain in place come the end of this summer then Moyes would be as good as anyone for the job at hand - but like I say, I don't think he'd take that job, as it would be a further endangering of his already diminished reputation.
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I wouldn't be averse to Moyes under any circumstances (i.e. new owners or not) as I genuinely believe he'd make us better, regardless of ownership. But that doesn't matter as I don't think he'd ever come here now; even when we were top six he didn't want the gig post MON. But I wonder where he will end up? I don't think he's a fit o Spurs and he's too good for West Ham and the Albion. I can almost see him doing a McClaren and repairing his reputation in one of the European Leagues before risking it here again.
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ITK information - I have heard that in order to satisfy the vocal 'anybody but Lambert' section of supporters, Villa are about to appoint the El Dorado manager. Although not mentioned previously and having never managed at this level or in the premier league, they believe he has all of the attributes to be a great manager.
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he's probably just a gold digger
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Because Pulis saw what he had at Stoke and knew what tactically was needed to make them stubborn, tough to beat, and mid-table. He's done the same with Palace. Except, when looking at his team he made them tight but also they were looking to attack when they had the ball, and used their midfield playing with pace and with a threat. With the players at his disposal he has don't very well indeed. Giving him even better players at Villa will see him used them accordingly. And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having. If we're at the horses for courses stage I couldn't think ever anyone better than Pulis right now.
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Because Pulis saw what he had at Stoke and knew what tactically was needed to make them stubborn, tough to beat, and mid-table. He's done the same with Palace. Except, when looking at his team he made them tight but also they were looking to attack when they had the ball, and used their midfield playing with pace and with a threat. With the players at his disposal he has don't very well indeed. Giving him even better players at Villa will see him used them accordingly. And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having. If we're at the horses for courses stage I couldn't think ever anyone better than Pulis right now.
Errr
And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having
I wasn't aware I had?
My point about Pulis was that, given time at Stoke, he produced a team which were the antithesis of entertaining football, which earned a reputation for every type of horrible gamesmanship you could think of.
I appreciate he's done well at Palace, but he's done it by harnessing the "never stop trying, never give up" thing, which is fine when you're trying to not get relegated, but isn't going to get you any further.
I would rather keep Lambert over appointing Pulis, and it's not even close.
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Giving him even better players at Villa will see him used them accordingly.
That sounds a lot like the General's reasoning for appointing McLeish. And when he got his 'even better players' Pulis generally had no idea what to do with them, and the likes of Tuncay would find themselves sitting on the bench, watching giants of limited talent attempt to bludgeon their way to safety. Pulis has done well at Palace, but I won't forget how unbelievably terrible watching his Stoke side was.
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That sounds a lot like the General's reasoning for appointing McLeish.
I remember when he said "imagine what he could do with a chairman who backs him".
Then we all went away and tried to imagine it, and it wasn't pretty. Which is exactly how it turned out.
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ITK information - I have heard that in order to satisfy the vocal 'anybody but Lambert' section of supporters, Villa are about to appoint the El Dorado manager. Although not mentioned previously and having never managed at this level or in the premier league, they believe he has all of the attributes to be a great manager.
Punch Line?
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Post underneath
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Okay, let's say for sake of argument that Larry Ellison buys the club and sticks £100M in the transfer kitty. Hypothetically, which manager should we get?
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well with that sort of money Ancelotti every time. Failing that a retired sea captain/sailor type with a passing interest in football. Maybe Ted Heath or Bluebeard.
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Because Pulis saw what he had at Stoke and knew what tactically was needed to make them stubborn, tough to beat, and mid-table. He's done the same with Palace. Except, when looking at his team he made them tight but also they were looking to attack when they had the ball, and used their midfield playing with pace and with a threat. With the players at his disposal he has don't very well indeed. Giving him even better players at Villa will see him used them accordingly. And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having. If we're at the horses for courses stage I couldn't think ever anyone better than Pulis right now.
Pulis spent £75m at Stoke. He wasn't forced to play the kind of football he did due to lack of money. He chose to play horrible football
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I understand the criticism of Pulis but fuck me we haven't exactly set the world on fire with our own football for three years. At least Pulis is effective. We can't even say that.
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He's as boring though. Even before the dreadful slide towards danger under Eck we were all bored half to death by the football - the results were just the rabbit-pellet cherry on the top of that particular turd-cake.
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After we beat them 2-1 at their place thanks to that Lowton goal, we had their local radio on in the coach park. Their fans were bloody slaughtering Pulis and his football.
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ITK information - I have heard that in order to satisfy the vocal 'anybody but Lambert' section of supporters, Villa are about to appoint the El Dorado manager. Although not mentioned previously and having never managed at this level or in the premier league, they believe he has all of the attributes to be a great manager.
Punch Line?
Still trying to find it
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I'm pretty certain he'd improve our throw-ins to a professional standard.
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I'm pretty certain he'd improve our throw-ins to a professional standard.
The long ones, sure. But I've seen his sides do exactly the same shit we do from normal throw-ins - hang around, dawdle, lob it to a full-back ambling up to the line, who then stands with the ball above his head for about twenty minutes before chunting the ball up the line and losing it.
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The long ones, sure. But I've seen his sides do exactly the same shit we do from normal throw-ins - hang around, dawdle, lob it to a full-back ambling up to the line, who then stands with the ball above his head for about twenty minutes before chunting the ball up the line and losing it.
I was being facetious, as usual.
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The long ones, sure. But I've seen his sides do exactly the same shit we do from normal throw-ins - hang around, dawdle, lob it to a full-back ambling up to the line, who then stands with the ball above his head for about twenty minutes before chunting the ball up the line and losing it.
I was being facetious, as usual.
Ah. But you weren't wrong, so it was confusing.
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I'd far rather stick with Lambert than get Pulis or Allardyce, on the basis that Lambert is a relatively young manager who at least still has the potential to up his game, and has occasionally shown brief hints of wanting to play the right way. The other two are for clubs that want to scrap and win ugly and stand still. They wouldn't fit at Villa.
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All I'm saying about Pulis is that while I don't think anyone wants him here, least of all me, you can't deny he's effective - which Lambert manifestly is not. I doubt many Palace fans are giving Pulis pelters at the moment. They might do next season of course.
Having said that, being better than Lambert isn't difficult. Pulis, like Allardyce and McLeish, is in the 'should never get anywhere near the Villa job' category.
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That's fair enough. He's at least good at the horrible percentages stuff. Lambert doesn't appear to be good at much except counter-attacking away from home and buying players for £4-7m. Which isn't nothing, but it does leave an awful lot of things he's bad at.
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Pulis got to a similar points tally to Lambert at Norwich. Who at the time we could argue was effective. He would be equally awful here I am pretty sure.
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I can't believe people are mentioning Pulis. If all we want is to avoid relegation than Lambert is pretty good at that having "won" 3 relegation battles on the trot.
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Part of the disappointment of this season is how we haven't really kicked on from where we left off playing some effective attacking football last season (and the beginning of this). If Lambert could get back to that approach and enhance the squad with a few better/experienced players we'd make the progress we anticipated.
Just what the fcuk has he done to the players this season?
It's not just down to injuries that we've been so crap, surely.
Pulis?
Never!
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Is he or isn't he? Has he or hasn't he?
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Can you imagine the optimism of a new owner and the promise of another bright future followed by the crash to the earth, sick to the stomach feeling a week later when he announces his multi millions will go to new boss Pulis.? I would be seeking out the top of the CN Tower looking to abseil without a rope.
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Pulis? I'm glad I'm not on the same drugs as you lot.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-news-paul-lambert-3564045
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Cue the reverse gear being rapidly engaged over on bullshit Central...
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Can you imagine the optimism of a new owner and the promise of another bright future followed by the crash to the earth, sick to the stomach feeling a week later when he announces his multi millions will go to new boss Pulis.? I would be seeking out the top of the CN Tower looking to abseil without a rope.
I think I'd fly over there, just to jump off it, and make sure the job got done properly.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-news-paul-lambert-3564045
Nursey does seem to be quite close to Lambert, so it wouldn't be the biggest surprise.
Oh dear. I smell drift.
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Cue the reverse gear being rapidly engaged over on bullshit Central...
There's a couple of people laying the boot in, but then they really should not be dressing anonymous sources' claims up as fact.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-news-paul-lambert-3564045
Nursey does seem to be quite close to Lambert, so it wouldn't be the biggest surprise.
Oh dear. I smell drift.
I think he's just guessing like the rest of us.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-news-paul-lambert-3564045
Nursey does seem to be quite close to Lambert, so it wouldn't be the biggest surprise.
Oh dear. I smell drift.
Yeah. If Nursey has it right of course, which I hope he hasn't but I think he has.
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Cue the reverse gear being rapidly engaged over on bullshit Central...
There's a couple of people laying the boot in, but then they really should not be dressing anonymous sources' claims up as fact.
I think it's riddled with bullshitters wanting to gain some kind of credibility, which is more sad than anything. Credit to H&V for not buying the whole ITK myth
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Ask Newcastle fans if they'd want Allardyce back, or West Ham fans if they want him now.
I appreciate things are bad now, but what I don't understand is why people think "he's better than Lambert" and accept that as enough. Surely if Lambert is that bad, it's easily possible to be better than him but still not be good enough?
And have people forgotten the horrible, embarassing, cynical offence to football which Pulis's Stoke were?
Football is supposed to be fun, the likes of Allardyce, Pulis and co make it anything but fun.
What's the point in jumping out of this frying pan and straight into another one? **
** Young Ones quote, there, I know it's meaningless.
Because Pulis saw what he had at Stoke and knew what tactically was needed to make them stubborn, tough to beat, and mid-table. He's done the same with Palace. Except, when looking at his team he made them tight but also they were looking to attack when they had the ball, and used their midfield playing with pace and with a threat. With the players at his disposal he has don't very well indeed. Giving him even better players at Villa will see him used them accordingly. And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having. If we're at the horses for courses stage I couldn't think ever anyone better than Pulis right now.
Errr
And I really don't know what these new training techniques are that you accuse him of not having
I wasn't aware I had?
My point about Pulis was that, given time at Stoke, he produced a team which were the antithesis of entertaining football, which earned a reputation for every type of horrible gamesmanship you could think of.
I appreciate he's done well at Palace, but he's done it by harnessing the "never stop trying, never give up" thing, which is fine when you're trying to not get relegated, but isn't going to get you any further.
I would rather keep Lambert over appointing Pulis, and it's not even close.
Well you mentioned it here which is where I got it from.
Pulis has done amazingly by getting Palace to where they finished, yes, but he's done so by adopting old fashioned, typical British manager tactics - running till you sweat your eyeballs out, organisation, aggression, not giving up.
If we appointed someone like him, or *shudder* Allardyce, or even Moyes, it would be repeating the mistakes of the past. Get a manager with a proven background in modern training methods and styles of play, and give him two or three years plus some money.
I have no idea what you mean by 'modern training methods'. I don't get why a British manager is seen as being reactionary whereas any foreign name are seeing as exciting, possible, and forward thinking simply because they're foreign. Remember the furore on here when Solksjaer was linked with us?
A foreign name doesn't have modern training methods simply because he sounds suave and sophisticated. Anymore than a British manager doesn't just because he's been on the English manager gravy train for a while. Every team Allardyce has had has been more or less the same. But I wouldn't say the same for Pulis. he has evolved his teams and he just reached the end of his time with Stoke and went. Did wonders there, though, but they were horrible to watch. I wouldn't say the same for Palace, though.
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I have no idea what you mean by 'modern training methods'. I don't get why a British manager is seen as being reactionary whereas any foreign name are seeing as exciting, possible, and forward thinking simply because they're foreign. Remember the furore on here when Solksjaer was linked with us?
A foreign name doesn't have modern training methods simply because he sounds suave and sophisticated. Anymore than a British manager doesn't just because he's been on the English manager gravy train for a while. Every team Allardyce has had has been more or less the same. But I wouldn't say the same for Pulis. he has evolved his teams and he just reached the end of his time with Stoke and went. Did wonders there, though, but they were horrible to watch. I wouldn't say the same for Palace, though.
Where did I say that any foreign manager means modern methods whereas any British manager doesn't?
What about Brendan Rodgers, for example? He is a very modern manager, but is also British.
I don't care what nationality our next manager is, but whoever it is, I want it to be someone who isn't a relic of football of years gone by, and is someone who will move the club forward, into the 21st century.
Pulis has a track record of horrible football - he probably more than anyone else symbolises uncultured hoof ball - and horribly cynical play (look at the shit Stoke used to get up to). You say he's evolved his play at different teams - based on what? Half a season at Palace and his work at Stoke?
I would want someone closer to the Rodgers way of doing things than the Pulis way every single time.
I don't give a toss if they are British or Spanish or whatever, nationality doesn't come in to it. Pulis certainly is not it, though. When I say "old fashioned British methods" i mean the sort of outdated football we used to get served up in the 1980s, when all the managers were British.
Since you mentioned Solksjaer, I'd actually take him over Pulis given the choice, easily. At least there'd be a chance he'd try to play football. With Pulis there is no chance - he's all bluster and motivation. i've had enough of that, to be honest.
Pulis did an excellent job keeping Palace up, but I can't believe how quickly people forget his track record. Is that what you'd really want at Villa? Towels sewn into shirts to help with the long throw in into the box? Time wasting in the first half? Really?
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You still haven't said what a very modern manager is? Somebody not from the 80s British way of football. So a Rodgers with all the money available to him is better than a Bob Paisley?
Do I want Pulis at Villa? Ideally, no. If we have little to spend again then I think Lambert should stay. If we have a new owner who wants to get a new manager but wants stability first then yes, I think Pulis is a good enough stop-gap manager to give us that stability. Solkskjaer, would have us playing lovely stuff maybe, but would take us down even further.
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If Bob Paisley tried to do now what he did in the 80s he'd get destroyed. The game moves on - it's happening to Wenger, and Ferguson's great ability was to recognise when it was happening to him and take steps to prevent it (usually hiring a good-seeming coach).
You also seem to believe that there is an inherent correlation between playing passing football and losing at the relegation-end of the table. There is just no evidence for this - in fact, most teams who go down attempt to play a limited style of football, and lose doing so.
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You still haven't said what a very modern manager is? Somebody not from the 80s British way of football. So a Rodgers with all the money available to him is better than a Bob Paisley?
The thing is, it isn't the 1980s any more. I mean a manager who is attuned to the way the game is played today. We have just had a really good example of what happens when you sink huge amounts of money into a club but ally it with a manager who is tactically stuck in the past. It doesn't work. It didn't work when we gave MON 200m to make it work, and it won't work now.
I have no idea what would happen if we transplanted Bob Paisley, or any manager successful in this country in the past into the modern game, I genuinely don't know, but it doesn't really matter, because it is not going to happen, is it?
I don't care what nationality our next manager is, I genuinely do not. What I do care about is that he sets about moving this club properly into the 21st century. I want to see us keep the ball, pass it well, play a game based on possession.
What I don't want to see is us play the sort of football that got "found out" decades ago. We have got to start to move on. I genuinely do not give a flying one if the manager is british or european or south american, or what, but I can't think of many things I'd like to see us do less than start to be molded in the shape of Pulis's Stoke City.
Do I want Pulis at Villa? Ideally, no. If we have little to spend again then I think Lambert should stay. If we have a new owner who wants to get a new manager but wants stability first then yes, I think Pulis is a good enough stop-gap manager to give us that stability. Solkskjaer, would have us playing lovely stuff maybe, but would take us down even further.
If you want an owner who puts stability first, then to be honest, I'd agree, keeping Lambert is the obvious choice. There's zero point ditching him and taking someone else on when, ultimately, they're going to have to work with the same financial restrictiions. They might finish a few places higher, but ultimately the money is going to be the restraining factor.
The reason the idea of someone like Pulis taking over at Villa makes me want to gag is because I have seen the way he gets his teams to play, and I am basing that on his time at Stoke far more than the shorter time at Palace, because it is more relevant - there was more of it.
I just want us to start to play actual football, to do the basics, to show movement, to be able to start to benefit from throw ins in our favour, to have a style of play based on keeping the ball instead of chasing it around like morons.
Until we start to do that, things are really never going to get better.
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If Bob Paisley tried to do now what he did in the 80s he'd get destroyed. The game moves on - it's happening to Wenger, and Ferguson's great ability was to recognise when it was happening to him and take steps to prevent it (usually hiring a good-seeming coach).
You also seem to believe that there is an inherent correlation between playing passing football and losing at the relegation-end of the table. There is just no evidence for this - in fact, most teams who go down attempt to play a limited style of football, and lose doing so.
That's not my point. Rodgers has a lot of money behind him so suggesting he has 'modern training methods', whatever that means, which makes him a good coach is a self-defeating argument. Yes, he may be a good coach but there were brilliant coaches in the past that aren't defined by era. Is Jimmy Hogan limited because he hasn't coached in the 21st century? Of course not.
The 80s style of football is one thing. But we're talking about managers now. Pulis is a means to an end, should we need one, and probably the best 80s throwback with modern training methods out there.
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That's not my point. Rodgers has a lot of money behind him so suggesting he has 'modern training methods', whatever that means, which makes him a good coach is a self-defeating argument. Yes, he may be a good coach but there were brilliant coaches in the past that aren't defined by era. Is Jimmy Hogan limited because he hasn't coached in the 21st century? Of course not.
The 80s style of football is one thing. But we're talking about managers now. Pulis is a means to an end, should we need one, and probably the best 80s throwback with modern training methods out there.
Why is it a self defeating argument? Rodgers has had decent money at Liverpool, but he didn't at Swansea, and his performance at Liverpool this season is far beyond what you can put down just to money.
As for 80s throwbacks, who says we need one?
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I think what's admirable about Rodgers is that after his first season at Liverpool he realised his overall approach needed tweaking and he did just that. Unfortunately he didn't seem to realise that it needed further tweaking to be a bit more canny in the last three or four games. The Palace game is a prime example of that.
I'm sure he'll learn from that bitter experience too.
Re Pulis, he definitely has qualities but his style of football isn't one of them. He's very good at what he does but what he does we don't need.
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If Bob Paisley tried to do now what he did in the 80s he'd get destroyed. The game moves on - it's happening to Wenger, and Ferguson's great ability was to recognise when it was happening to him and take steps to prevent it (usually hiring a good-seeming coach).
You also seem to believe that there is an inherent correlation between playing passing football and losing at the relegation-end of the table. There is just no evidence for this - in fact, most teams who go down attempt to play a limited style of football, and lose doing so.
That's not my point. Rodgers has a lot of money behind him so suggesting he has 'modern training methods', whatever that means, which makes him a good coach is a self-defeating argument. Yes, he may be a good coach but there were brilliant coaches in the past that aren't defined by era. Is Jimmy Hogan limited because he hasn't coached in the 21st century? Of course not.
The 80s style of football is one thing. But we're talking about managers now. Pulis is a means to an end, should we need one, and probably the best 80s throwback with modern training methods out there.
Actually, they really are defined by era, and Jimmy Hogan might be the best example of 'modern training methods' you can find, seeing as he actually invented the idea of 'training' (as opposed to the 'starve' the player of the ball during the week and he'll be 'hungry' for it at the weekend, which sounds nuts but was actually the prevailing feeling of the time). Jimmy Hogan could not have envisaged what the Hungarians would do with his ideas, however, because he was of his era. What is revolutionary in one decade is outmoded the next.
Pulis-football was revolutionary once, if always a bit limited, as was MON-ball, which was the style played by a decade of English European Cup winners. However, the game has changed - since then (among others) we've had Sacchi, Cruyff, Aime Jacquet, Wenger (who was utterly new in England at the time but now looks a little rigid), Mourinho, Guardiola and now Klopp. Yes, these are top-of-the-table managers but their ideas trickle down, and the general trend in the PL is towards possession football as not only more entertaining but actually safer, actually less risky. I want a manager who gets that.
PS: citation - Wilson, Jonathan, 'Inverting the Pyramid', published by yada yada yada.
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Because it's not possible to say that on one hand Rodgers is a successful manager over Bob Paisley simply because of their era, without recognising that because of money he stopped himself getting the sack at Liverpool. Well, possibly. He was deeply unpopular at the end of last season and spent a hell of a lot of money on attacking options this season. Don't get me wrong I like his attitude towards football, but his Achilles heel is the defence, something which his training methods can't hide.
I'm not saying we need an 80s throwback because I don't think Pulis is one. It was a response to you bringing the 80s into it. Or was it monty?
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Ah we've all brought the eighties into it. Anyway, I'm not sure cross-comparing eras is that helpful. It reminds me of that bit in The Simpsons, where Lenny and Karl are arguing and Karl says 'no no no, Muhammad Ali, in his prime, was way better than anti-lock brakes'.
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Because it's not possible to say that on one hand Rodgers is a successful manager over Bob Paisley simply because of their era, without recognising that because of money he stopped himself getting the sack at Liverpool. Well, possibly. He was deeply unpopular at the end of last season and spent a hell of a lot of money on attacking options this season. Don't get me wrong I like his attitude towards football, but his Achilles heel is the defence, something which his training methods can't hide.
I'm not saying we need an 80s throwback because I don't think Pulis is one. It was a response to you bringing the 80s into it. Or was it monty?
I agree with you re Rodgers and defending (and would have agreed about Martinez last summer on the same thing, but he inherited a very good one), but surely it doesn't matter whether Rodgers is a better manager than Paisley or not, because Paisley is not going to manage a Premier League team in 2014, whereas Rodgers is.
He doesn't have to be better than Paisley, he has to be better than all the other managers managing in the top flight thisyear.
I brought the 1980s into it because i referred to the style of British managers in the 1980s. Not British managers as in a nationality thing, though, which is what I think you thought I meant. I don't care what nationality the manager is. I just want someone who will get us playing a style of football suited to the modern game - because that's where we're playing.
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Pulis-football was revolutionary once, if always a bit limited, as was MON-ball, which was the style played by a decade of English European Cup winners. However, the game has changed - since then (among others) we've had Sacchi, Cruyff, Aime Jacquet, Wenger (who was utterly new in England at the time but now looks a little rigid), Mourinho, Guardiola and now Klopp. Yes, these are top-of-the-table managers but their ideas trickle down, and the general trend in the PL is towards possession football as not only more entertaining but actually safer, actually less risky. I want a manager who gets that.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat though. Possession football isn't be all and end all and neither is it the only way to win a football match. I want a manager who will do whatever it takes tactically to win. And regardless of the type of football our next manager prefers I want him to be good at it.
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Pulis-football was revolutionary once, if always a bit limited, as was MON-ball, which was the style played by a decade of English European Cup winners. However, the game has changed - since then (among others) we've had Sacchi, Cruyff, Aime Jacquet, Wenger (who was utterly new in England at the time but now looks a little rigid), Mourinho, Guardiola and now Klopp. Yes, these are top-of-the-table managers but their ideas trickle down, and the general trend in the PL is towards possession football as not only more entertaining but actually safer, actually less risky. I want a manager who gets that.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat though. Possession football isn't be all and end all and neither is it the only way to win a football match. I want a manager who will do whatever it takes tactically to win. And regardless of the type of football our next manager prefers I want him to be good at it.
I would agree that winning is important, but I'd rather finish 12th whilst playing great football than 8th whilst playing cynical Allardyce or Pulis style bollocks, any day of the week.
I think we sometimes forget, it is supposed to be about entertainment, it is supposed to be fun, enjoyable. An easy enough thing to forget when you're a Villa fan, obviously.
One of the ways I think Randy was unlucky was that he spunked tens of millions of pounds supporting a manager who delivered reasonable success for four years, yet in that time never managed to put together a team which had a particularly good home record, and managed to spunk all that money without buying a single bums-on-seats player.
He went off and bought lots of mid level players (two entire defences in two years, for example) rather than an expensive, "cor, look at him, he's decent" ticket seller.
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Because it's not possible to say that on one hand Rodgers is a successful manager over Bob Paisley simply because of their era, without recognising that because of money he stopped himself getting the sack at Liverpool. Well, possibly. He was deeply unpopular at the end of last season and spent a hell of a lot of money on attacking options this season. Don't get me wrong I like his attitude towards football, but his Achilles heel is the defence, something which his training methods can't hide.
I'm not saying we need an 80s throwback because I don't think Pulis is one. It was a response to you bringing the 80s into it. Or was it monty?
I agree with you re Rodgers and defending (and would have agreed about Martinez last summer on the same thing, but he inherited a very good one), but surely it doesn't matter whether Rodgers is a better manager than Paisley or not, because Paisley is not going to manage a Premier League team in 2014, whereas Rodgers is.
He doesn't have to be better than Paisley, he has to be better than all the other managers managing in the top flight thisyear.
I brought the 1980s into it because i referred to the style of British managers in the 1980s. Not British managers as in a nationality thing, though, which is what I think you thought I meant. I don't care what nationality the manager is. I just want someone who will get us playing a style of football suited to the modern game - because that's where we're playing.
Exactly, so what are these modern training techniques that managers managing today have and surely they'll all have them?
As for the nationality thing I know you weren't saying that you'd prefer one manager over another because of it, but whenever there's a thread over new managers - and there's been a few recently - foreign names are thrown in simply because they're foreign and many think they'll bring great foreign football to the club.
The rebuttal to any English named managers is always the same - harking back to horrible football and the 1980s.
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There's always more than one way to skin a cat though. Possession football isn't be all and end all and neither is it the only way to win a football match. I want a manager who will do whatever it takes tactically to win. And regardless of the type of football our next manager prefers I want him to be good at it.
Possession sort of means two things now, and I suppose I'd rather say 'passing football', because possession football probably better describes that very particular, tiki-taka influenced ball-hogging style which is actually much more about control than it is about attack.
Passing football could mean this, but it could also mean what I think is the latest development, namely what Klopp, Rodgers and Simeone have done this year - a game based around lunatic pressing and playing in the opponent's half as much as possible (this comes from Bielsa as well, though he's nuts in his own special ways).
Dominating the possession statistic isn't as important, because transitions (horrible buzz-word, but there we are) and counterattacks are viewed as opportunities gained through pressing. However, despite this reactive element, none of these teams do that with long balls to the big man, and all recognise the need to be able to ball-hog when necessary and can do so, because their attacks are still based on passing the buggering thing along the floor. I think this is the next step in attacking football from pure Guardiolista tiki-taka, which now looks pretty defensive and cautious, and liable to be caught out by teams who press them hard.
One thing's for sure - when faced with a massed defence, the best way through is almost never to lump it to the big guy. Mourinho doesn't do that when attacking on the front foot - Drogba's physical brilliance was always brought out on the break, when you could lob it up to him and he'd be one-on-one with some terrified defender. However, if you want to break teams down, the long ball is just pathetically over.
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I brought the 1980s into it because i referred to the style of British managers in the 1980s. Not British managers as in a nationality thing, though, which is what I think you thought I meant. I don't care what nationality the manager is. I just want someone who will get us playing a style of football suited to the modern game - because that's where we're playing.
Agreed on the nationality - it represents a stylistic trait more than a real national prejudice. I wouldn't want Javier Clemente either, the old-school Basque nutcase fond of what the Spanish call 'patapun y parriba' (which Sid Lowe amusingly translated as 'bish bosh, up it goes').
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Exactly, so what are these modern training techniques that managers managing today have and surely they'll all have them?
Why would they all have them?
I thought you were saying I was suggesting all British managers are the same? Of course they are not. I am talking about a traditional British style, one which is dead in the water.
Surely the reason we're having this discussion at all is that we are talking about Tony Pulis, a manager whose entire footballing ethos is based on physical power, long balls and gamesmanship? Pulis has done alright with Stoke - mid table - and with Palace this year, saving them.
My point is that we are supposed to be aiming for better than that. I don't think it is unrealistic for an Aston Villa fan to find the concept of fighting our way to mid table to be underwhelming, even though it's better than the last three years?
How many teams who play like Pulis's Stoke did achieve anything like where we should be aiming?
The rebuttal to any English named managers is always the same - harking back to horrible football and the 1980s.
I thought we'd been over that - like I said, British manager does not necessarily equal horrible 1980s football, I suggested Rodgers as an example, but don't know why you've discounted him. Because he's had money? What difference does that make?
As for what are these modern techniques - at the most basic level, they involve training a team to play a game based around keeping the ball, rather than brute physical power, which is what the English game has been based on in recent years, although much less of late.
Honestly, once more, I don't care if the manager is British or not, what I don't want to see is us playing the sort of football which was played 20 years ago in this country - you just can't do it any more and hope to have anything more than a minimal level of success.
You've got to understand things like tactics (something MON couldn't get right by the time he came to us) for a start. If you play a style of football which is 10 years out of date, let alone 30, you're going to struggle
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My worry Monty is that the theoretical tactics are all well and good if there's a lot of money to spend on players and can attract a top quality manager but it may be that we don't get taken over and are stuck with Lambert and the current squad with maybe one or two additions. As things stand I just don't think we can play that way. We can press more certainly but our players give the ball away for fun as a by-product of not being able to pass. It doesn't matter what tactics you use if your players are shit.
If we don't get bought out and Lambert stays his priority will quite reasonably be to stay up, not introduce a more progressive style that appears beyond him and our current squad.
I don't want Lambert to stay and I'd love to see more exciting football but we have to be pragmatic if things don't pan out they way we hope they will.
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If the financial regime doesn't change then, frankly, changing the manager won't change much at all. Lambert should have done better, yes, but another year down the line with a tight wages policy and an owner who wants out over shadows everything.
If we want very short term "stability" he might as well stay.
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As for Rodgers - the money does make a difference because he getting maximum publicity and has had a chance to showcase his coaching methods, but has needed money to get him where he is. last season Suarez wanted out and the fans were calling for his head. He spent lots of money and has been rewarded with a 2nd place finish. Without that money he would have been consigned to the gravy train dustbin and ended up in the lower half of the Prem/Championship.
As for the manager nationality thing I thought I made it quite clear that I knew you weren't going on about nationality. But when posters rebut English managers the reason for rebuttal goes back to the same thing. if we do get new owners we'll go off once more on a fancy parade around the world hoping for the new dawn to come from overseas because of their modern training methods.
I do want Allardyce, Pulis, Pardew, etc etc but if Lambert is sacked then I'm not convinced that they'll be flocking to B6 to get a pice of the action. Especially taking into consideration the fair Play rules now, someone will come in, see the squad and think they're in for a right scrap. Money needs to be spent but rules don't allow for a complete overhaul but bit by bit.
If Martinez was available I'd go and get him. But he's not. Moyes? Not this season. Then who. Who is a viable contender to take over from Lambert?
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If the financial regime doesn't change then, frankly, changing the manager won't change much at all. Lambert should have done better, yes, but another year down the line with a tight wages policy and an owner who wants out over shadows everything.
If we want very short term "stability" he might as well stay.
I disagree with you there. There's little point stabilising your position if that position is perilously close to relegation. I think there are better managers than Lambert out there who would be more effective than him in implementing a style - whatever that might be - and carrying it out effectively.
At the moment we have shite ineffective football. Shite effective football would be a step up. Hopefully at some future point we would be able to step up again to unshite effective football.
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I know what you're saying Hilts. The fact is that, while you can spot gems like Benteke, the general rules holds that the less money you spend, the more you have to choose between individual abilities in the players you sign. For example, world-class genius Iniesta can dribble, can pass long and short, can accelerate, can press hard, can make runs off the ball so uncanny they can probably not be taught (I'm using Iniesta because all top players are all-rounders, even though only physical ones like Ronaldo and Toure are often seen as such, despite being atypical). However, the less money you have to spend, the more you have to choose between qualities - a player who can dictate play or one who breaks up the play? One who makes runs into the box or can slip in through balls? And, indeed, one who can defend and make tackles or one who can pass the ball?
What I mean by this rambling exposition of the obvious is that, at our level, we can't really play the ultra-flexible tactics at the top, because instead of three midfielders who can all pretty much do everything, we're going to end up specialising more, and therefore biasing ourselves to one style or another. I won't deny that I'd rather sign passers than stoppers, but my point has always been this: that it's easier to teach a passer to be a defensive pest by pressing and positioning than it is to teach a limited play-breaker to pass the ball properly. It's all hard at our level, but I think it can be done.
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Of course money makes a difference, but some managers do a better job than others even when they don't have it. Rodgers didn't have money at Swansea, for example.
Money makes a difference regardless of who your manager is.
If we don't change our financial approach it will limit everything. If we are searching in a limited pool then I will go for the option most likely to at least make watching us vaguely interesting, and that means not people of the ilk of Pulis or Allardyce.
It's not really complicated or over optimistic, surely, to want a manager who will at least try to get us passing the ball, is it? That's what it comes down to.
Genuinely, if the spending policy is to go unchanged, I'd stick with Lambert. What is the point going through another manager search when you are financially crippled?
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Who would take it when the club is openly for sale?
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If the financial regime doesn't change then, frankly, changing the manager won't change much at all. Lambert should have done better, yes, but another year down the line with a tight wages policy and an owner who wants out over shadows everything.
If we want very short term "stability" he might as well stay.
I disagree with you there. There's little point stabilising your position if that position is perilously close to relegation. I think there are better managers than Lambert out there who would be more effective than him in implementing a style - whatever that might be - and carrying it out effectively.
At the moment we have shite ineffective football. Shite effective football would be a step up. Hopefully at some future point we would be able to step up again to unshite effective football.
If the upper limit of what you can achieve is so clearly defined by money, then there's not much you can do.
I don't want us to arse around in 15th either, that's not the sort of stability I'd want. I just think that this club has been in a rut of boredom for so long, we need a lift. In my opinion playing actual football would give the fans a bigger lift and work for us long term much better than grinding out results whilst playing industrial football.
We need to improve results in the short term, yes, but also build something for the long term. That has got to be based on playing decent, tactically sound football or we will find ourselves - at best - hitting the same glass ceiling MON did.
Look at it this way. Who would you rather be at the start of next season? Crystal Palace or Swansea City? I know which one I'd go for.
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What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?
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What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?
A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?
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Look at it this way. Who would you rather be at the start of next season? Crystal Palace or Swansea City? I know which one I'd go for.
The way I look at it is if we want to stay up why would we stick with a guy who has almost taken us down twice? There's a disconnect between the kind of football you (and I for that matter) want to see and your desire to stick with Lambert if the sale doesn't go through. Because he isn't going to be able to deliver good football and he may well take us down too.
I don't want us to be relegated, no matter what. That would be disastrous.
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What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?
A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?
It doesn't necessarily. But it does if your players are fundamentally incapable of it. There's no way players who give the ball away so readily can play possession football. It would be suicide.
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What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?
A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?
Well, if you've got players with no technique trying to pass the ball around close to their goal, a misplaced pass (a likely thing) is a very dangerous thing. I present Exhibits A-Y: Nathan Baker. Exhibit Z: Joe Bennett.
However, I suspect at least some of this problem is down to Lambert's coaching. You can actually train players to be more than the sum of their parts by instilling them rigorously with off-the-ball movement drills. How come Leon Britton always has space? He should be terrible, but he's always moving into the right areas. Rodgers said while at Swansea that his main priority is that the man with the ball should have two options ahead of him diagonally on either side. That's it. It's not hard or theoretical, some sort of footballing symbolic logic - it just requires hard work, and practice, and repetition, and graft and thought in training. Is Westwood really worse than Leon Britton? Is Delph?
However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.
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However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.
Which is precisely why we shouldn't stick with him. He just isn't up to it: tactically, coaching, motivation.
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However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.
Which is precisely why we shouldn't stick with him. He just isn't up to it: tactically, coaching, motivation.
I agree, in principle. My only worry is who would we get in under the current financial arrangements? Certainly not Moyes, and probably not Pulis either. Maybe Allardyce if he gets sacked by West Ham? And by Christ, how depressing is that sentence.
Ultimately, Paulie is right - a situation where there's no takeover is so unpalatable that there's almost no point in doing anything. This club is in serious trouble until there's a new owner, or Lerner discovers an extra $2bn behind the sofa.
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Ultimately, Paulie is right - a situation where there's no takeover is so unpalatable that there's almost no point in doing anything. This club is in serious trouble until there's a new owner, or Lerner discovers an extra $2bn behind the sofa.
I just don't see the sense in sticking with a guy we know isn't up to it. Okay, we may struggle to find someone decent to replace him but fuck me half-decent would do. I refuse to believe that there aren't some decent managers out there who would jump at the chance to manage the Villa.
And yes, some of them wouldn't want to come with the club in limbo. But some of them might.
We have to proceed on the basis that a takeover won't happen and try to get a better manager in. Otherwise, if we get relegated, the club is going to be in limbo for an awful lot longer.
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I think you're right, Hilts. There must be someone, and an ambitious someone with some passing football ideas. An Oscar Garcia perhaps, or the next Gus Poyet, or even Gus Poyet himself if things don't go well in his discussions with the Sunderland board. However, we're so fucking fucked if the status quo drags on. The thought is pretty scary.
You know what, I really would take Steve McLaren (McClaren?). Fully redeemed now, experienced and getting a young Derby side to play lovely stuff.
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Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"
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Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"
The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).
:o
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Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"
The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).
:o
Um, everything that's happened is the past. I'd say things that have happened are relevant and count for something.
Also, you were arguing that his record at Norwich showed he does play good football. This was very much tempered, at which point you've said his record there is irrelevant. Which is it?
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Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"
The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).
:o
Um, everything that's happened is the past. I'd say things that have happened are relevant and count for something.
Also, you were arguing that his record at Norwich showed he does play good football. This was very much tempered, at which point you've said his record there is irrelevant. Which is it?
Yes, you're correct there is a paradox here. I was being sarcastic in the post above. I think his record with Norwich and elsewhere in his career is still relevant. I was adding to Class of 82's post.
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I think you're right, Hilts. There must be someone, and an ambitious someone with some passing football ideas. An Oscar Garcia perhaps, or the next Gus Poyet, or even Gus Poyet himself if things don't go well in his discussions with the Sunderland board. However, we're so fucking fucked if the status quo drags on. The thought is pretty scary.
You know what, I really would take Steve McLaren (McClaren?). Fully redeemed now, experienced and getting a young Derby side to play lovely stuff.
swapping Lambert for any one of those goes nicely with re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic cliche.
Six months ago the only job McClaren could get was handing out the cones for Redknapp at QPR. Fully redeemed, not sure the failures at Forest, Wolfsburg and Twente second time around are not gone from his CV just yet.
Gus Poyet six weeks ago was on the verge of taking a shambles of a Sunderland side down. Few good results since kept them up but we should be setting our sights a bit higher surely. Pulis took charge of a worse side around the same time and took them well clear. Only the insane would suggest Pulis for our next manager.
Id be more for keeping Lambert on that hiring any of those goons, and I really dont rate Paul Lambert as a manager.
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ive said it before and i will say it again guys no malice or sarcasm inteneded.
sooner or later lambert will come out after rl has departed and tell us what sort of constraints he was working under, until he has been given proper funding to buy players then he can be judged.
against hull at half time there was 3-4 guys slagging him big style i butted in and said that he has been given the equivalent task of restoring a old classic car but instead of employing the best mechanics and buying the quality parts needed he has only been able to rummage around old scrap yards.
every single one of them looked at me and said "yea your right mate".
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ive said it before and i will say it again guys no malice or sarcasm inteneded.
sooner or later lambert will come out after rl has departed and tell us what sort of constraints he was working under, until he has been given proper funding to buy players then he can be judged.
against hull at half time there was 3-4 guys slagging him big style i butted in and said that he has been given the equivalent task of restoring a old classic car but instead of employing the best mechanics and buying the quality parts needed he has only been able to rummage around old scrap yards.
every single one of them looked at me and said "yea your right mate".
Is it a good enough excuse to be losing 22 games in one season though?
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no its not but please someone come up with the remedy then. go on wave that magic wand but remember the magic wand we got was bought from the pound shop not harrods like other clubs can.
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Losing that many games and not even coming close to addressing our disastrous form at home irrespective of the documented challenges is very hard to get past. I like the bloke, very much wanted it work. It just hasn't and if anything it is actually getting progressively worse than better.
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no its not but please someone come up with the remedy then. go on wave that magic wand but remember the magic wand we got was bought from the pound shop not harrods like other clubs can.
Let's not go down the road of thinking that he's been given a pittance to spend since he's been here because he hasn't. Tony Pulis managed to get his team to 11th and that was with mainly a championship team and Cameron Jerome up front.
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ive said it before and i will say it again guys no malice or sarcasm inteneded.
sooner or later lambert will come out after rl has departed and tell us what sort of constraints he was working under, until he has been given proper funding to buy players then he can be judged.
against hull at half time there was 3-4 guys slagging him big style i butted in and said that he has been given the equivalent task of restoring a old classic car but instead of employing the best mechanics and buying the quality parts needed he has only been able to rummage around old scrap yards.
every single one of them looked at me and said "yea your right mate".
Is it a good enough excuse to be losing 22 games in one season though?
or the behaviour of his staff
or the appalling football that was played
or how poor tactically he is
or how useless he is at substitutions
or signing multiple immobile strikers
or losing to bradford over 2 legs
or that he knew the conditions of his tenure before he left Norwich for us
or the worst league finishing result at the club since 1986/97
If we can ignore all that to give Lambert another go fair enough
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
just been reading leeb remark on the "i must be in the minority thread" and he said no matter who we would of had as manager last year i couldnt of seen anyone doing any better with the players we had or words to that effect.
villa till i die guys keep the faith
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
just been reading leeb remark on the "i must be in the minority thread" and he said no matter who we would of had as manager last year i couldnt of seen anyone doing any better with the players we had or words to that effect.
villa till i die guys keep the faith
Amazing. I'm not alone! The lists used to bash Lambert would be as extensive for any manager with such a level of investment from the owner. He's had a negative investment if you count the money cut from the wagebill, money which he has saved the club from having to spend.
Again, we also have the youngest squad in the premiership, woefully underfunded.
I've said it before though. But for what it's worth I am staggered more people can't see how difficult his job has been.
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
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He spent 7mill on a striker we did not need, yet people still peddle this underfunded drivel? Why buy Kozak when we could all see that we were very desperate for a ball winning midfielder? Really poor judgment from Lambert that. 43million is not a pauper's spend by any means.
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That poor judgement kept us up. Without Kozak we'd be in the Championship.
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Time to close this thread?
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He spent 7mill on a striker we did not need, yet people still peddle this underfunded drivel? Why buy Kozak when we could all see that we were very desperate for a ball winning midfielder? Really poor judgment from Lambert that. 43million is not a pauper's spend by any means.
It is when you buy 20 players – and before you say anything you need more than 11 players over a season. He's averaged £2million on each player, which gets you nothing.
The £7million on Kozak is fine considering how reliant we have been on Benteke – I think Benteke having the season he did shows it absolutely made sense to buy another striker. The unfortunate fact is that Kozak got injured for 6 months. Say what you like about Kozak, but he looked like he could finish, which is more than you can say about Weimann and Agbonlahor.
He has been underfunded. It is clearly not drivel. How much money do you think he has saved the club by moving on experienced players and replacing them with the youth we have now? We're talking £20-£30million a season we are no longer paying in wages. He had to replace them. The only players of his who haven't played are Helenius and Tonev – the rest, even people like Luna, KEA, Bowery, they have all played a part in the squad pretty much to the standard you'd expect when you're shopping in the bargain basement.
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Time to close this thread?
how depressing
-
appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
Let's take the Chelsea game. We were great that day and he got his tactics spot on. That should have given us the confidence to go on and have a comfortable-ish season. Instead we lost 8 out of the last 10 games including losing 4-1 against two average Swansea and Stoke teams and losing to a very very poor Fulham side.
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Time to close this thread?
how depressing
We go again.
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Who would take it when the club is openly for sale?
We will find out this time next year if we're still up for sale.
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
Let's take the Chelsea game. We were great that day and he got his tactics spot on. That should have given us the confidence to go on and have a comfortable-ish season. Instead we lost 8 out of the last 10 games including losing 4-1 against two average Swansea and Stoke teams and losing to a very very poor Fulham side.
Have you ever watched football – I mean, over the course of a season – because teams go on bad runs all the time.
We had Benteke against Man U and Stoke, but he was injured after that. He might have made a bit of a difference. Go have a look at the team we put out in those games and compare the money spent on the teams we were playing, even the shit ones. Again, we have no right to win just because we're "Aston Villa". We are underfinanced beyond sane levels. Basically, for the money spent we were about in the position you'd expect us to be in.
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ive said it before and i will say it again guys no malice or sarcasm inteneded.
sooner or later lambert will come out after rl has departed and tell us what sort of constraints he was working under, until he has been given proper funding to buy players then he can be judged.
against hull at half time there was 3-4 guys slagging him big style i butted in and said that he has been given the equivalent task of restoring a old classic car but instead of employing the best mechanics and buying the quality parts needed he has only been able to rummage around old scrap yards.
every single one of them looked at me and said "yea your right mate".
Is it a good enough excuse to be losing 22 games in one season though?
or the behaviour of his staff
or the appalling football that was played
or how poor tactically he is
or how useless he is at substitutions
or signing multiple immobile strikers
or losing to bradford over 2 legs
or that he knew the conditions of his tenure before he left Norwich for us
or the worst league finishing result at the club since 1986/97
If we can ignore all that to give Lambert another go fair enough
A salutary storey
A fable of our times
A man thought he could deliver
Under harsh contraints
He had every confidence
Young and hungry!
Young and hungry!
A bargain basement hunter
He knew no fear
He plumbed the depths
He had every faith
These boys could get it done
Downsize!
Downsize!
Downsize!
And despite austerity
An extraordinary propensity
Peculiar purchase policy
Full backs who could not defend
And Multiple immobile strikers!
Multiple immobile strikers!
Multiple immobile strikers!
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
Let's take the Chelsea game. We were great that day and he got his tactics spot on. That should have given us the confidence to go on and have a comfortable-ish season. Instead we lost 8 out of the last 10 games including losing 4-1 against two average Swansea and Stoke teams and losing to a very very poor Fulham side.
Have you ever watched football – I mean, over the course of a season – because teams go on bad runs all the time.
A bit patronising but to answer your question, yes. I didn't miss a home league game and went to 13 away games so I know how bloody bad we were at times and believe me, we were awful.
I'm not saying we should have been chasing a European spot because we wasn't ready for that but we should have finished a lot more comfortable than we did.
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Time to close this thread?
how depressing
We go again.
We go down.
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Time to close this thread?
how depressing
I also think we should close this down for a while, at the moment there is nothing to discuss but ITK bollocks from TBAR which is leading to H@V friends falling out on here, just saying.
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I will say it again. 43 million pounds in two years is not underfunded. It is a mix of selecting poor players, poor coaching and not being able to get the best of out those players he did sign as to the reasons we have struggled. There is no excuse for buying Tonev, Helenius, Luna etc. The club now needs to clear out some of the shit that Lambert has bought.
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
Let's take the Chelsea game. We were great that day and he got his tactics spot on. That should have given us the confidence to go on and have a comfortable-ish season. Instead we lost 8 out of the last 10 games including losing 4-1 against two average Swansea and Stoke teams and losing to a very very poor Fulham side.
Have you ever watched football – I mean, over the course of a season – because teams go on bad runs all the time.
A bit patronising but to answer your question, yes. I didn't miss a home league game and went to 13 away games so I know how bloody bad we were at times and believe me, we were awful.
I'm not saying we should have been chasing a European spot because we wasn't ready for that but we should have finished a lot more comfortable than we did.
It's not patronising if I was being rude, which is more where I was going with it.
I just don't get it sometimes – people seem to let things get to them (I'm just being general here) that you see happening all the time. Especially in football – we had it in us to go on a shit run. It was such a shit run, but it's such a fine line sometimes. We were on course to have had a much stronger season this year, but it didn't happen. We've also had worse injuries this year if you consider the impact Benteke and N'Zogbia (he did score at least one important goal) made to the run in last season. Benteke almost did it on his own.
Lambert's summer spend went to a good degree on Kozak and Okore, and both of them have been injured for extended periods. If you take those two out of "Lambert's spend" we're already down to £29 million on 17 players, which is rediculous. Which is the amount of money, to my admittedly rough estimate, Lambert has saved on wages.
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I will say it again. 43 million pounds in two years is not underfunded. It is a mix of selecting poor players, poor coaching and not being able to get the best of out those players he did sign as to the reasons we have struggled. There is no excuse for buying Tonev, Helenius, Luna etc. The club now needs to clear out some of the shit that Lambert has bought.
I hugely disagree, and I think most people, even if they're not behind Lambert, must surely at least realise that he has been working under massive financial limitations. You say £43million isn't a lot, but go and see what the other teams have spent. Also, you have to factor in the reduction of wages, because if you're cutting the wagebill by £30 odd million, that isn't an insignificant figure which has nothing to do with the quality of the squad.
He could have spent £40 million on 4 players, but we'd have the rest of the team filled with sub-Lichaj academy players – and that's if we'd manage to put out enough players to even fill the subs bench.
You know as well as me that Lerner has been on a cost cutting mission since Houllier, so Lambert clear as day has had financial limitations.
There are plenty of excuses for buying Helenius, Tonev and Luna. If you want an example go look at the Crystal Palance transfers over the last few seasons, and they bought about 40 players in the same period we bought near 20. They look much more solid than us, but they have certainly gone through a fair number of rejects in the process.
The thing is with these cheap signings is they're clearly not going to be as difficult to shift as Hutton etc, because they're not going to be on 50k a week wages. Anyway, this is what happens when you buy cheap – plenty of the buys don't work out.
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Benteke was a huge loss. I didn't think it would be at the time but as the season went on we missed him.
I didn't have too much of a problem with the players he brought in. His tactics (or lack of them) however are his big downfall. His answer in a lot of games is to throw another striker on. There was no running off the ball either. It's incredibly frustrating to watch.
I like the bloke and I wanted him to succeed but losing 22 games in one season is some going.
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appalling football that was played
poor tactically
immobile strikers
which brings us back to the point that if he hasnt got the players because he hasnt got the money to spend. so when we playing appalling football he looks at he bench and which top quality player does he bring on to change it ??
poor tactically who does he again bring on to change it ???and as for bradford i was as pissed off as anyone but then again those sort of giant killing acts never happen do they.
You forget we also lost to Millwall and Sheff Utd at home when we had a near full strength team out and at the time they were about 5th from bottom of their league.
From Chelsea onwards, we were appalling and he didn't have any answer for it. Looking back, its a good job Norwich had the run in they did.
Premiership teams lose to lower league opposition all the time in the cups. We're shit with a young underfunded team, and we don't have an automatic right to win any game just because we're Aston Villa.
Let's take the Chelsea game. We were great that day and he got his tactics spot on. That should have given us the confidence to go on and have a comfortable-ish season. Instead we lost 8 out of the last 10 games including losing 4-1 against two average Swansea and Stoke teams and losing to a very very poor Fulham side.
Have you ever watched football – I mean, over the course of a season – because teams go on bad runs all the time.
We had Benteke against Man U and Stoke, but he was injured after that. He might have made a bit of a difference. Go have a look at the team we put out in those games and compare the money spent on the teams we were playing, even the shit ones. Again, we have no right to win just because we're "Aston Villa". We are underfinanced beyond sane levels. Basically, for the money spent we were about in the position you'd expect us to be in.
Im sorry but we played like a team who had cost £15 , we are absolutely awful
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Benteke was a huge loss. I didn't think it would be at the time but as the season went on we missed him.
I didn't have too much of a problem with the players he brought in. His tactics (or lack of them) however are his big downfall. His answer in a lot of games is to throw another striker on. There was no running off the ball either. It's incredibly frustrating to watch.
I like the bloke and I wanted him to succeed but losing 22 games in one season is some going.
I like Lambert, or at least I like the theory of what Lambert could be, what he hinted at in the first season.
But then I look at some of his "tactics" and I get this horrible, growing feeling that he doesn't know what he's doing. Then I see stuff like the utter mess at BMH with C and K, an I wonder whether it's all a bit too much of a big job for him.
There's no getting away with it, losing 22 games is beyond abysmal. As is losing more home games than anyone else has managed in the history of the club. Or only losing one less last season.
I could overlook all that, though, if I thought there was enough promise in him from elsewhere. I just can't see it, though.
We're now in a situation where keeping Lambert on is the only thing we can really do. I wonder, what collection of switched-on, brilliant management from the people at the top brought about that situation?
What a mess.
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I agree than there has been enough in a few of Lambert signings to suggest than they might be very good players for Villa, and that Lambert himself maybe can still do a decent job given time.
Injuries did play a part in our season's decline, but that doesn't take away from the overall picture, with such bad performances, so many defeats, awful football, a lack of effort and such a bad home record. Yes we have no given right to beat Stoke, but we certainly shouldn't be losing 4-1 to them at home and putting in such a piss poor performance at the same time.
Like I have said else where I would stick with Lambert for awhile longer, but if he does survive the summer he really is on borrowed time.
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at the end of the day we will all have our views but the one common thing that we can all agree on is that we love this fooking club so much thats why we care.
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Thomas Tuchel is available - http://www.dw.de/thomas-tuchel-leaving-mainz-05/a-17628183
Suspect he has his next gig in the bag already but if not is someone our next owner should be looking at
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I backed lambert all season until the Swansea debacle, then I wavered and said he had to go. With the state of flux we're in now with the sale, I actually think he needs to stay, just to provide us with some stability. Was very pleased with his appointment and we have showed glimpses of being a handy side on his watch, but this is eclipsed by far too many shit results and bad performances.
Like him as a bloke and if he does stay on I really hope our displays next season ram it down every body's throat, but just don't see us kicking on with him in charge. It's a shame as it is clearly evident that he is trying to do the right thing by us and also seems to have one hand tied behind his back effectively.
Ultimately though, I just hope the takeover is swift and we can both move on. Not ideal really, but it is what it is.
As for a replacement: fuck knows. I'd take Steve Clarke if he could bring a decent back room staff with him. I don't think honestly, we are an attractive enough proposition right now to attract much better.
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I don't want to turn this into a take over thread but if no new owner is on the horizon then I think randy needs to sort out the manager situation: give someone a three year deal. Either lambert, or hopefully someone else.
It'll be the uncertainty and lack of planning which will kill us, not the lack of billions of cash, and randy needs to sort it one way or the other.