So who do you want as the next Villa manager?

[ozzjim]

Who would take it when the club is openly for sale?

[pauliewalnuts]

If the financial regime doesn't change then, frankly, changing the manager won't change much at all. Lambert should have done better, yes, but another year down the line with a tight wages policy and an owner who wants out over shadows everything.

If we want very short term "stability" he might as well stay.

I disagree with you there.  There's little point stabilising your position if that position is perilously close to relegation.  I think there are better managers than Lambert out there who would be more effective than him in implementing a style - whatever that might be - and carrying it out effectively.

At the moment we have shite ineffective football.  Shite effective football would be a step up.  Hopefully at some future point we would be able to step up again to unshite effective football.

If the upper limit of what you can achieve is so clearly defined by money, then there's not much you can do.

I don't want us to arse around in 15th either, that's not the sort of stability I'd want. I just think that this club has been in a rut of boredom for so long, we need a lift. In my opinion playing actual football would give the fans a bigger lift and work for us long term much better than grinding out results whilst playing industrial football.

We need to improve results in the short term, yes, but also build something for the long term. That has got to be based on playing decent, tactically sound football or we will find ourselves - at best -  hitting the same glass ceiling MON did.

Look at it this way. Who would you rather be at the start of next season? Crystal Palace or Swansea City? I know which one I'd go for.

[hilts_coolerking]

What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?

[pauliewalnuts]

What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?

A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?

[hilts_coolerking]

Look at it this way. Who would you rather be at the start of next season? Crystal Palace or Swansea City? I know which one I'd go for.

The way I look at it is if we want to stay up why would we stick with a guy who has almost taken us down twice?  There's a disconnect between the kind of football you (and I for that matter) want to see and your desire to stick with Lambert if the sale doesn't go through.  Because he isn't going to be able to deliver good football and he may well take us down too.

I don't want us to be relegated, no matter what.  That would be disastrous.

[hilts_coolerking]

What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?

A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?

It doesn't necessarily.  But it does if your players are fundamentally incapable of it.  There's no way players who give the ball away so readily can play possession football.  It would be suicide.

[Monty]

What effect would relegation have on the likelihood of someone minted buying the club?

A big one. Why does trying to play possession football mean relegation?

Well, if you've got players with no technique trying to pass the ball around close to their goal, a misplaced pass (a likely thing) is a very dangerous thing. I present Exhibits A-Y: Nathan Baker. Exhibit Z: Joe Bennett.

However, I suspect at least some of this problem is down to Lambert's coaching. You can actually train players to be more than the sum of their parts by instilling them rigorously with off-the-ball movement drills. How come Leon Britton always has space? He should be terrible, but he's always moving into the right areas. Rodgers said while at Swansea that his main priority is that the man with the ball should have two options ahead of him diagonally on either side. That's it. It's not hard or theoretical, some sort of footballing symbolic logic - it just requires hard work, and practice, and repetition, and graft and thought in training. Is Westwood really worse than Leon Britton? Is Delph?

However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.

[hilts_coolerking]

However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.

Which is precisely why we shouldn't stick with him.  He just isn't up to it: tactically, coaching, motivation.

[Monty]

However, I highly doubt that Lambert thinks much about this. Indeed, the fact that he prefers Baker to Clark tells you his views on passing out from the back.

Which is precisely why we shouldn't stick with him.  He just isn't up to it: tactically, coaching, motivation.

I agree, in principle. My only worry is who would we get in under the current financial arrangements? Certainly not Moyes, and probably not Pulis either. Maybe Allardyce if he gets sacked by West Ham? And by Christ, how depressing is that sentence.

Ultimately, Paulie is right - a situation where there's no takeover is so unpalatable that there's almost no point in doing anything. This club is in serious trouble until there's a new owner, or Lerner discovers an extra $2bn behind the sofa.

[hilts_coolerking]

Ultimately, Paulie is right - a situation where there's no takeover is so unpalatable that there's almost no point in doing anything. This club is in serious trouble until there's a new owner, or Lerner discovers an extra $2bn behind the sofa.

I just don't see the sense in sticking with a guy we know isn't up to it.  Okay, we may struggle to find someone decent to replace him but fuck me half-decent would do.  I refuse to believe that there aren't some decent managers out there who would jump at the chance to manage the Villa.

And yes, some of them wouldn't want to come with the club in limbo.  But some of them might.

We have to proceed on the basis that a takeover won't happen and try to get a better manager in.  Otherwise, if we get relegated, the club is going to be in limbo for an awful lot longer.

[Monty]

I think you're right, Hilts. There must be someone, and an ambitious someone with some passing football ideas. An Oscar Garcia perhaps, or the next Gus Poyet, or even Gus Poyet himself if things don't go well in his discussions with the Sunderland board. However, we're so fucking fucked if the status quo drags on. The thought is pretty scary.

You know what, I really would take Steve McLaren (McClaren?). Fully redeemed now, experienced and getting a young Derby side to play lovely stuff.

[class-of-82]

Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"

[Rolta]

Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"

The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).

 

[Monty]

Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"

The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).

 

Um, everything that's happened is the past. I'd say things that have happened are relevant and count for something.

Also, you were arguing that his record at Norwich showed he does play good football. This was very much tempered, at which point you've said his record there is irrelevant. Which is it?

[Rolta]

Someone remind me why we went for lambert in the first place ?
Was it because he got Norwich playing some "lovely stuff"

The past counts for NOTHING (when it suits people to go looking for scapegoats, and when they ignore we've had sub-even-Crystal Palace levels of investment and the youngest squad in the premiership).

 

Um, everything that's happened is the past. I'd say things that have happened are relevant and count for something.

Also, you were arguing that his record at Norwich showed he does play good football. This was very much tempered, at which point you've said his record there is irrelevant. Which is it?

Yes, you're correct there is a paradox here. I was being sarcastic in the post above. I think his record with Norwich and elsewhere in his career is still relevant. I was adding to Class of 82's post.