Harvey Elliott (signed on loan)

[SamTheMouse]

We are relying on Rogers far too much, it's a case for oppositions to stop Rogers and stop us, and having him moved wide left made him easy to mark, we needed him in the centre as he looked like the only player likely to score for us. Do not mind Emery being demanding that players play to his instructions, likely he made his mind up abot Elliot early on in training, how this did not apply to Guessand early is puzzling.

Against Brentford, I thought moving Rogers to the left helped because he couldn't get on the ball in the centre.  It didn't work obviously, but I could understand the logic.

Trying to get him in position for one of his "cut inside and curl it into the far corner" efforts.

[brontebilly]

We are relying on Rogers far too much, it's a case for oppositions to stop Rogers and stop us, and having him moved wide left made him easy to mark, we needed him in the centre as he looked like the only player likely to score for us. Do not mind Emery being demanding that players play to his instructions, likely he made his mind up abot Elliot early on in training, how this did not apply to Guessand early is puzzling.

Against Brentford, I thought moving Rogers to the left helped because he couldn't get on the ball in the centre.  It didn't work obviously, but I could understand the logic.

Trying to get him in position for one of his "cut inside and curl it into the far corner" efforts.

He did try to be fair but Brentford were wise to that switch and I think Rogers was tiring by then. Swapping Bailey and himself might have given them something different to think about but that's not a move Emery is keen on.

[paul_e]

Liverpool and Villa can change the games played trigger of the loan agreement.

Do we have a definitive source for this? I'd like to believe it's true - and if true, it would explain why there was no urgency around it in January - but it does feel like any "change" to a loan agreement would have to be done in a transfer window?

Yes, the window is purely about player registration, so long as he's still registered as a Villa player until June the contract can be altered in anyway that us and Liverpool agree.

[cdbearsfan]

You'd think they could at least allow us to amend the clause so it is only domestic games that count. Villa playing extra rounds in Europe doesn't hurt them and there are some scenarios where Villa winning the Europa League are beneficial to them, depending on where they finish. If we get through and Liverpool go out, perhaps they might also consider allowing us to play him in the FA Cup.

[eamonn]

That's a good point. Keeps him in the shop window too if they want to try and preserve his value.

[Drummond]

You'd think they could at least allow us to amend the clause so it is only domestic games that count. Villa playing extra rounds in Europe doesn't hurt them and there are some scenarios where Villa winning the Europa League are beneficial to them, depending on where they finish. If we get through and Liverpool go out, perhaps they might also consider allowing us to play him in the FA Cup.

That would strengthen us in the league though, which is where we're competing with them, so I'm guessing they wouldn't want that.

We've seen him play twice recently. I wonder if Emery is now resigned to paying the fee with a view to moving him on again in the summer if we can. It's important that the deal wasn't triggered before the end of the year for UEFA SCR rules, and maybe that's why the 5 before and 5 after clause was put in.

Whatever the situation, it's unsatisfactory. He's looked tidy, nothing more, but looked good for Liverpool and England U21.

[Pat McMahon]

My take is that Emery has been pragmatic lately and played Elliott when we have had the horrible midfield injury crisis. Onana and Barkley too risky on Sunday and he wants the youngsters learning their trade on loan so he bit the bullet and played Elliott, even if he isn’t in his future plans.

If he has played 6 ish games so far that leaves 3 more match involvements without triggering the buy clause. I think Unai is crossing his fingers and hoping we have enough fit bodies to see us through towards the end of the season ( Barkley now, McGinn and Tielemans in 6-8 weeks) and  will use his 3 Elliott games in the next few weeks.

[BC54 VFC]

My take is that Emery has been pragmatic lately and played Elliott when we have had the horrible midfield injury crisis. Onana and Barkley too risky on Sunday and he wants the youngsters learning their trade on loan so he bit the bullet and played Elliott, even if he isn’t in his future plans.

If he has played 6 ish games so far that leaves 3 more match involvements without triggering the buy clause. I think Unai is crossing his fingers and hoping we have enough fit bodies to see us through towards the end of the season ( Barkley now, McGinn and Tielemans in 6-8 weeks) and  will use his 3 Elliott games in the next few weeks.

Yes, I think that's spot on.

[eamonn]

I think it's 2 more games unless Europe doesn't count.

[Dante Lavelli]

Liverpool and Villa can change the games played trigger of the loan agreement.

Do we have a definitive source for this? I'd like to believe it's true - and if true, it would explain why there was no urgency around it in January - but it does feel like any "change" to a loan agreement would have to be done in a transfer window?

I know nothing, but hope it is the same as a player renegotiating the terms of their contract between windows, which happens all the time.

[Beard82]

Unai has clearly made up his mind.  Unless something has massively changed we're not signing him.

Why would liverpool help us out by removing the constraint.  Similarly, why would we help Liverpool out by signing a player that on review isnt what we wanted.

Probably we would have bought him outright if the restriction werent in place.  Liverpool and the sky 6 wanted these restriction so I dont think we have done anything wrong in the scheme of things.

Well done to Harvey for his effort.  Hell have a very successful career but it must be rough for him.

[KevinGage]

Is there an argument for trying to renegotiate the actual fee itself, rather than adjusting the loan component.

It's reported in various places as either £35 million. Or £30 million with add ons.

Say we got that down to £28 mill with add ons.

Personally I'd do that deal.

Even if he doesn't smash it for the second half of this season and next, he'd be a useful player + cash deal for A.N Other player we may target in the domestic market or the Bundesliga (where he had interest last summer) etc.

He might just do a Bunedia and prove Emery wrong in the meantime.

[Villan For Life]

Is there an argument for trying to renegotiate the actual fee itself, rather than adjusting the loan component.

It's reported in various places as either £35 million. Or £30 million with add ons.

Say we got that down to £28 mill with add ons.

Personally I'd do that deal.

Even if he doesn't smash it for the second half of this season and next, he'd be a useful player + cash deal for A.N Other player we may target in the domestic market or the Bundesliga etc.

He might just to a Bunedia and prove Emery wrong in the meantime.

If Unai doesn’t rate him and doesn’t want him he will be off at the end of the loan period.

[Beard82]

Is there an argument for trying to renegotiate the actual fee itself, rather than adjusting the loan component.

It's reported in various places as either £35 million. Or £30 million with add ons.

Say we got that down to £28 mill with add ons.

Personally I'd do that deal.

Even if he doesn't smash it for the second half of this season and next, he'd be a useful player + cash deal for A.N Other player we may target in the domestic market or the Bundesliga (where he had interest last summer) etc.

He might just do a Bunedia and prove Emery wrong in the meantime.

I think the value that Unai see's is less than liverpool would sell him for.  I would think we would be talking more like 15m - 20m (i.e. a rotation player).  We need to treat players that are 25+ as first team.  Hence why players like Malen and Guessard have been moved on

[Skipper_The_Eyechild]

We're in a different world now, 25+ doesn't necessarily give you guaranteed starters anymore, that's not to say that wasn't the plan with him. I still have no issue with the value.