Nottingham Forest vs Aston Villa pre-match thread

[KevinGage]

I think the answer is somewhere in between as it relates to Olsen. He’s not always at fault. The outfield players need to do their job. But when the outfield players are off a little we can’t have the keeper let us down when called upon.

As well as his individual shitness he spreads panic amongst the back four.

You know any 50/50 (or 40/60) cross Martinez will go for it. Same when it comes to cleaning out his own defenders and opposition forwards from set pieces if needs be. Olsen sometimes comes for the ball and sometimes doesn't.  And then sometimes passes the ball directly to the opposition.

His own defenders don't know what he's going to do so it's a problem.

[OCD]

I assume Awoniyi is back?

[Mister E]

I assume Awoniyi is back?

Awoniyi and Elanga are real threats. Their weakness is defensively so we need to get at them.

[RamboandBruno]

Olsen must be why we lost to Newcastle, Liverpool and Legia too. The players could see him on the bench and just couldn't shake the lack of confidence.

Deary me, really? This reminds me of people getting overly upset when Wayne Routledge or Nigel Reo-Coker were criticised

I'm not "overly upset", I'm just incredibly bored of people using Olsen as a scapegoat for every bloody game we've lost. Someone even claimed the only reason we looked so comfortable and won easily against Alkmaar was because Emery finally realised he can't play Olsen. Like what a load of bull.

I know Martinez is a brilliant keeper. I know Olsen is far from it. I would love to sign an upgrade on him ASAP. I'd be happy if he's already played his last game for us. I just don't see the need to keep having a go at him when we've won games he's played in, and lost games Martinez played in.

I think your swinging punches in an empty room here mate.
Olsen is shit, when he plays he makes us shitter, he’s not to blame for all the worlds ills, but he plainly makes us a worse side and bringing up games where we’ve lost with him not in the side is largely irrelevant and ignores virtually every game where he has played and been a nervous wreck and liability.

[AV84]

I think your swinging punches in an empty room here mate.
Olsen is shit, when he plays he makes us shitter, he’s not to blame for all the worlds ills, but he plainly makes us a worse side and bringing up games where we’ve lost with him not in the side is largely irrelevant and ignores virtually every game where he has played and been a nervous wreck and liability.

So bringing up games we've lost without him in the side is irrelevant, but bringing him up as the only reason we won a game he didn't play in, is what? Perfectly logical? Good to know.
And bringing him up as the sole reason we lost to Everton when the entire team played like shite? Also fine, I assume.

This place sometimes is as bad as twitter. Why are you explaining to me how shit Olsen is when I've already said clearly how I think he's shit? It's like some of you decide you want to make a point and don't actually care what it is you're replying to.

[85kota]

I think your swinging punches in an empty room here mate.
Olsen is shit, when he plays he makes us shitter, he’s not to blame for all the worlds ills, but he plainly makes us a worse side and bringing up games where we’ve lost with him not in the side is largely irrelevant and ignores virtually every game where he has played and been a nervous wreck and liability.

So bringing up games we've lost without him in the side is irrelevant, but bringing him up as the only reason we won a game he didn't play in, is what? Perfectly logical? Good to know.
And bringing him up as the sole reason we lost to Everton when the entire team played like shite? Also fine, I assume.

This place sometimes is as bad as twitter. Why are you explaining to me how shit Olsen is when I've already said clearly how I think he's shit? It's like some of you decide you want to make a point and don't actually care what it is you're replying to.

Would you like a tissue?

[RamboandBruno]

I think your swinging punches in an empty room here mate.
Olsen is shit, when he plays he makes us shitter, he’s not to blame for all the worlds ills, but he plainly makes us a worse side and bringing up games where we’ve lost with him not in the side is largely irrelevant and ignores virtually every game where he has played and been a nervous wreck and liability.

So bringing up games we've lost without him in the side is irrelevant, but bringing him up as the only reason we won a game he didn't play in, is what? Perfectly logical? Good to know.
And bringing him up as the sole reason we lost to Everton when the entire team played like shite? Also fine, I assume.

This place sometimes is as bad as twitter. Why are you explaining to me how shit Olsen is when I've already said clearly how I think he's shit? It's like some of you decide you want to make a point and don't actually care what it is you're replying to.

You brought the idea up that in the Everton defeat you thought our team was stronger than the Warsaw defeat. Others has disagreed with you citing Olsen and the reasons why Olsen makes us worse. Its not relevant to reference games we’ve lost with Martinez in goals because i wouldn’t say those defeats in anyway relate to anything Martinez has specifically done wrong. The Everton defeat, most players didn’t play well, but there were fundamental mistakes from Olsen that led to their opening goal. We could go through every game he’s played for us and cite similar mistakes, with the exception of Spurs away on new years day, when we limited them to maybe one chance, so he didn’t have anything to do. Some he’s got away with, some he hasn’t, but he completely changes the outlook of the team when he plays.

As I said swinging in an empty room. People have provided counter points to what you have said, about one of the worst goalkeepers in my living memory and you don’t like it, you’ve picked a strange hill and all that.

[adrenachrome]

I think your swinging punches in an empty room here mate.
Olsen is shit, when he plays he makes us shitter, he’s not to blame for all the worlds ills, but he plainly makes us a worse side and bringing up games where we’ve lost with him not in the side is largely irrelevant and ignores virtually every game where he has played and been a nervous wreck and liability.

So bringing up games we've lost without him in the side is irrelevant, but bringing him up as the only reason we won a game he didn't play in, is what? Perfectly logical? Good to know.
And bringing him up as the sole reason we lost to Everton when the entire team played like shite? Also fine, I assume.

This place sometimes is as bad as twitter. Why are you explaining to me how shit Olsen is when I've already said clearly how I think he's shit? It's like some of you decide you want to make a point and don't actually care what it is you're replying to.

Would you like a tissue?

"I've used up all my tissues
Coz there's more serious of issues"

Betty Boo said that. Not sure if she was kidding around. She probably was.

[Baldy]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.

Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.

Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.

We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

[RamboandBruno]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.

Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.

Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.

We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

I doubt he’s reading this thread.

[paul_e]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.

Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.

Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.

We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

The problem is that you're missing 1 other massive fact here, how we play means the keeper is our final 'out' ball for defenders to pass to and let him restart play appropriately, sometimes playing short back in the other direction, sometimes knowing it just needs to go long. Even if Olsen was a world class shot stopper he isn't comfortable with his feet which means he can't fulfil a  key part of the role. No amount of getting behind him and supporting him will change that. I don't think he's anything like as bad as some people suggest and I agree the drop off in quality is significant but unavoidable, however the difference in style is the biggest problem and is why we do need to replace him at some point soon.

[Baldy]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.

Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.

Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.

We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

I doubt he’s reading this thread.

Why not? I wouldn't be surprised if most players followed their own teams message boards.

[Mister E]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.
Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.
Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.
We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

The problem is that you're missing 1 other massive fact here, how we play means the keeper is our final 'out' ball for defenders to pass to and let him restart play appropriately, sometimes playing short back in the other direction, sometimes knowing it just needs to go long. Even if Olsen was a world class shot stopper he isn't comfortable with his feet which means he can't fulfil a  key part of the role. No amount of getting behind him and supporting him will change that. I don't think he's anything like as bad as some people suggest and I agree the drop off in quality is significant but unavoidable, however the difference in style is the biggest problem and is why we do need to replace him at some point soon.

Taking your point, Paul, suggests to me that - rather than Olsen - we'd be better off playing one of the younger, less-experienced keepers on our books; one who can play football as well as keep net.
Makes sense to me.

[Baldy]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.

Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.

Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.

We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

The problem is that you're missing 1 other massive fact here, how we play means the keeper is our final 'out' ball for defenders to pass to and let him restart play appropriately, sometimes playing short back in the other direction, sometimes knowing it just needs to go long. Even if Olsen was a world class shot stopper he isn't comfortable with his feet which means he can't fulfil a  key part of the role. No amount of getting behind him and supporting him will change that. I don't think he's anything like as bad as some people suggest and I agree the drop off in quality is significant but unavoidable, however the difference in style is the biggest problem and is why we do need to replace him at some point soon.

A very good point.

But the current crop of goalkeepers have grown up 'between the sticks' because they are better with their hands than their feet. Playing out from the back is a relatively new concept.

Yes, we should be looking for a perfect number two but they are extremely thin on the ground. Most teams can't even find a perfect number one despite spending mega millions.

[RamboandBruno]

When you have the best goalkeeper in the world, whoever the replacement is, they are going to reduce the quality of the team. Fact.
Any other top goalie worth his salt, is not going to be happy sitting on the bench. Fact.
Our manager is not an idiot. Fact.
We need to stop constantly moaning about Olsen and support him the best we can instead of denting his confidence even further.

The problem is that you're missing 1 other massive fact here, how we play means the keeper is our final 'out' ball for defenders to pass to and let him restart play appropriately, sometimes playing short back in the other direction, sometimes knowing it just needs to go long. Even if Olsen was a world class shot stopper he isn't comfortable with his feet which means he can't fulfil a  key part of the role. No amount of getting behind him and supporting him will change that. I don't think he's anything like as bad as some people suggest and I agree the drop off in quality is significant but unavoidable, however the difference in style is the biggest problem and is why we do need to replace him at some point soon.

Taking your point, Paul, suggests to me that - rather than Olsen - we'd be better off playing one of the younger, less-experienced keepers on our books; one who can play football as well as keep net.
Makes sense to me.

This is a good point. The way the game has developed, i doubt there are many young keepers at top clubs who aren’t being trained to pass it out, your starting to see it at my sons football on a Sunday and he plays in an under 14s league.

However,  although Paul is correct in his analysis, without wanting to sound Churlish, im not convinced he’s an overly decent shot stopper.