Pau Torres

[PaulWinch again]

The point I made about inverse rose-tinted glasses on Pau illustrated nicely.

[AV84]

Reflected our season really...conceded too many and wasn't as clinical as we needed to be.

Yep. You can get away with 15 minutes of sloppy defending when you're playing the vast majority of Premier League teams over 90 minutes. PSG in a second leg, after losing 1-3 in the first? You get punished.

I said before the game, we can get a result but everyone needs to be at 100% for 100% of the game. They weren't, and that's the story of our season, unfortunately. We've made it extremely difficult for ourselves now, much more difficult than it needed to be, by regularly switching off for 10-20 minutes in far too many games.

I don't know who/what is to blame, but now we seem to be spoiled for choice with attacking options, and arguably the best midfield in the league, something needs to be done at the back over the summer.

[Dave]

I imagine none of the following is particularly controversial:

Mings is a better defender than Pau
Pau is a better footballer than Mings
We're not yet a side that is in a position to dominate and dictate every match we play
For a lot of those matches, what Mings offers probably outweighs what Pau brings
Emery will want us to be a team that is better than the current one and control more matches than we currently do
For a lot of those matches, what Pau offers probably outweighs what Mings brings.

Or to put it in a slightly more succint but speculative way, right now it is debatable whether our current best team contains Pau or Mings. It's not really debatable in my opinion that the team Emery wants to turn us into is one that has Pau in it rather than Mings.

[VillaTim]

Today i'd play Mings
vs C115y - Torres
Palace - Mings

[Dave]

Yup, me too.

[ChicagoLion]

Agree.

[Monty]

Yeah, I feel Pau's better passing through the press might not compensate for the possibility of being bullied on transitions. Plus I bet he's cream crackered after midweek. Get Ty in there, fresh and ready to rumble (and he can pass through pressure pretty damn well too you know, twenty years ago he'd have been regarded as a deeply artsy centre back - Pau would've been a midfielder).

[PaulWinch again]

I’d play Mings in this one.

[Olneythelonely]

Today i'd play Mings
vs C115y - Torres
Palace - Mings

I agree with Coops

[Hookeysmith]

Cash or Garcia is a tough call against Barnes who alway plays well, and usually scores, against us.
Would definitely play Digne for 60 mins against Murphy then Maatsen as they tire
Mings today for thier rough up tactics, Torres against 115.
Onana and Bouba holding
Uri flanked by McGinn and Rogers
Ollie up top.

That will give them something to think about.

Asensio and Rashford at 70 mins if needed, if not save for Tuesday

Tough 2-1

[London Villan]

I don't have a programme to hand - but what are the match results when Torres starts vs Mings? Hoping Percy has them! Be very interesting to see.

[PeterWithesShin]

With Pau W13 D6 L8
Without W16 D4 L5

With Mings W12 D3 L3
Without W17 D7 L10

That's games started this season

[London Villan]

Thanks - how about goals conceded too?

Pretty telling stats...

[Mellin]

Those Mings stats have carried since he signed. It's so obvious via the old eye test too.

I've maybe been appeasing a bit on this one, but I'm fully on board the unequivocal Tyrone Mings is a better centre half than Pau Torres wagon now. Yes, one has strengths that the other doesn't in both cases, but it just so happens that Mings' strength is defending and they are both defenders. That comes first. Also, we still play good football when Mings plays. We don't defend effectively when Torres plays...and that includes last season.

It is not Konsa, it is not Cash...they have both been part of a solid defence with Mings for years. It is Torres. Maybe if we can play them together or find a right-sided Mings to play with him it can work. At the moment it does not.

[RamboandBruno]

Im not trying to defend the indefensible here, and I’ll be honest in that I both think Torres is a great footballer, lots of our only decent passing last night stemmed from him, and I love Mings for what he has brought to this club over many years now.

But just on last nights game alone, can someone explain to me how Mings makes a difference when Emi spilt the first goal in? Snd how was Torres in anyway at fault?  We can debate the second one, but if people are convinced Mings gets there and gets his body shape at an angle to clear rather that score an o.g., then fine. Im not so sure.