2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.

[Smithy]

I think we loan Burnley Aaron Ramsey.

Premier league clubs can only have two loans from other prem clubs, so I don't see a newly promoted club using one of their loans on an untested at the top level youth product.  In the Championship it's much more relaxed, so these clubs loan more players as they have more flexibility.  In the premier league it's not as easy.

[Ads]

We don't get to offset £12m against our spending.

[Ads]

Gonzalo Montiel being linked, right back from Sevilla.

[LukeJames]

I signed him a few years ago when he was an un-known on Football Manager and he became the best RB in the World. That probably says more about my coaching though.

Oh and he scored the winning penalty in the World Cup Final.

[RamboandBruno]

The home grown talent thing completely and understandably influences our (supporters) view of players. We view Cam Archer as a top talent, largely because he’s scored a dozen goals in the championship two years in a row. I’d suggest if we’d just bought a second striker from the championship with a similar record, we’d be underwhelmed. I want Archer to succeed I really do, I was willing him to score or even get a chance against Lazio, but I have to say so far in limited times I’ve seen him, I’m not 100% convinced, sacrosanct on here I know and I hope I’m wrong.

I bring up Archer as I think its a similar situation with A Ramsey, we presume he’s going to be a top talent, without really knowing.

Potentially 50-60 games this season or not, with McGinn, Tielemans, Kamara, Luiz, Bailey, Diaby, Beundia, J Ramsey, Coutinho, possibly Bidace, in front of him, the kid really isn’t getting many if any first team games this season. A loan would seem a better option but I’d trust in Emery and his team to have a clear idea who is going to win us matches and trophies.

It seems to me that Emery is here to get us winning things and heading towards the top 4 and established there as quickly as possible, whilst I hope he’s here for 5 or 6 years and I absolutely hope he’s building foundations, this doesn’t strike me as a long term project when youth are going to have a few years to develop. I think if they are good enough they will be in the squad, if they need a bit more time, a loan, if the management team aren’t sure if they are good enough or where they fit in, they will be sold.

[Brend'Watkins]

Agree. Even so he is more than decent and he will get his chance this season. It’s a Villa career defining chance.  He has the makings of a great player and I wish him all the luck in the world.

[tomd2103]

I think we loan Burnley Aaron Ramsey.

Premier league clubs can only have two loans from other prem clubs, so I don't see a newly promoted club using one of their loans on an untested at the top level youth product.  In the Championship it's much more relaxed, so these clubs loan more players as they have more flexibility.  In the premier league it's not as easy.

Unless they saw him last season at Middlesbrough and rate him very highly.  A Premier League loan for our young players is a win-win all round really.  They get a taste at that level and we get to see how they perform in the top flight.

[Brazilian Villain]

Gonzalo Montiel being linked, right back from Sevilla.

He looks and sounds like a movie baddie, but if we're going for players named after the place in which they were conceived, I'd rather him than Brooklyn Beckham.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Gonzalo Montiel being linked, right back from Sevilla.

Get him in. We've finally found our new penalty taker, eh BE?

EDIT: Not sure Alex Moreno will be too pleased to see him arrive..

From Sid Lowe:  'He had come on as a first-half sub after Gonzalo Montiel was handed a red card for a wild, flying tackle, studs connecting with Álex Moreno’s knee. At first the referee, Sánchez Martínez, had only given a yellow, but the replays saw that upgraded, Montiel losing his mind and having to be dragged off the pitch by teammates.'

From the clips I've seen he's nails, gives everything and not without a bit of skill. He would certainly help us out on a right back option.

[OCD]

I think we loan Burnley Aaron Ramsey.

Premier league clubs can only have two loans from other prem clubs, so I don't see a newly promoted club using one of their loans on an untested at the top level youth product.  In the Championship it's much more relaxed, so these clubs loan more players as they have more flexibility.  In the premier league it's not as easy.

Unless they saw him last season at Middlesbrough and rate him very highly.  A Premier League loan for our young players is a win-win all round really.  They get a taste at that level and we get to see how they perform in the top flight.

It would but you don't see many loans in the Premier League from club to club. And how motivated would that club be to develop a player for a rival? Whereas, a permanent deal with a buy-back clause and you're likely to treat him as your player and hope that the clause doesn't get exercised, or know that if it does, he must have done really well for you in the short-term.

[LeeB]

Why would we sell him - he seems like a top talent

FFP gold, though, as a home grown player.

Yeah, I think he has loads of talent as well, but then again, so do a lot of players at that age.

It's difficult, but I honestly think the added value of a home grown product to FFP constraints makes it a more complicated decision.

Yup. We'd probably get £50m for his older brother right now. And that's because he's really good, so we shouldn't try and sell him.

But from an FFP perspective, it sorts the spreadsheets out for at least two years, while we bring through all the other youth that we're clearly planning on selling at some point for the same reason.

It's sad, but we're going to see a lot of "one of us, next Gary Shaws" sold in the years to come, and for some of them it won't be because they're not good enough.

To look at it from another club's perspective, there's a reason that to sort their horrible finances out, there's a reason that Forest will end up selling Brennan Johnson rather than Gibbs-White.

Yep.

Also, and I know how cut-throat this will sound, we say things about how we wouldnt want to buy players who stand in the way of development of our home-grown players.

We need to get past that. If the home grown players are good enough, they'll break through and claim a place.

We're not here to grow and improve local lads, we're here to win matches and silverware.

It is great if we can do so with lots of home grown players, but we're - as you said - going to have to get a lot less emotional and more business like about that sort of thing.

Clearly you’re not wrong with that objective Paulie but how is that objective different from most clubs.  [Arteta mode on] We need to find a process that differentiates ourselves from other clubs and being a champion of youth development is a more realistic strategy than out-spending Man City or having better South American scouts than Brighton.  If that is our USP then we need to start living it [Arteta mode off].

Oh, I agree with that, I'm just saying that they need to earn their place in things, rather than being give one to 'stop getting in their way' as we hear quite a lot.

Also worth noting, Man City and Chelsea, for all their insane spending, are also masters of growing and selling players, many of whom never get near their first team - it's a big part of what allows them to do that.

It's also worth noting neither of those clubs have the historic revenue streams and support of Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal, and this tactic helps bridge that gap.

[Beard82]

Why would we sell him - he seems like a top talent

FFP gold, though, as a home grown player.

Yeah, I think he has loads of talent as well, but then again, so do a lot of players at that age.

It's difficult, but I honestly think the added value of a home grown product to FFP constraints makes it a more complicated decision.

Yup. We'd probably get £50m for his older brother right now. And that's because he's really good, so we shouldn't try and sell him.

But from an FFP perspective, it sorts the spreadsheets out for at least two years, while we bring through all the other youth that we're clearly planning on selling at some point for the same reason.

It's sad, but we're going to see a lot of "one of us, next Gary Shaws" sold in the years to come, and for some of them it won't be because they're not good enough.

To look at it from another club's perspective, there's a reason that to sort their horrible finances out, there's a reason that Forest will end up selling Brennan Johnson rather than Gibbs-White.

Yep.

Also, and I know how cut-throat this will sound, we say things about how we wouldnt want to buy players who stand in the way of development of our home-grown players.

We need to get past that. If the home grown players are good enough, they'll break through and claim a place.

We're not here to grow and improve local lads, we're here to win matches and silverware.

It is great if we can do so with lots of home grown players, but we're - as you said - going to have to get a lot less emotional and more business like about that sort of thing.

Clearly you’re not wrong with that objective Paulie but how is that objective different from most clubs.  [Arteta mode on] We need to find a process that differentiates ourselves from other clubs and being a champion of youth development is a more realistic strategy than out-spending Man City or having better South American scouts than Brighton.  If that is our USP then we need to start living it [Arteta mode off].

Oh, I agree with that, I'm just saying that they need to earn their place in things, rather than being give one to 'stop getting in their way' as we hear quite a lot.

Also worth noting, Man City and Chelsea, for all their insane spending, are also masters of growing and selling players, many of whom never get near their first team - it's a big part of what allows them to do that.

It's also worth noting neither of those clubs have the historic revenue streams and support of Liverpool, Man U or Arsenal, and this tactic helps bridge that gap.

It’s also worth noting Man City have 115 charges against them.  Think it is over estimated how many players they sell from a youth team perspective - for Man City it’s only been the last couple seasons. 

If we sale - say Tim Aaron and cam for a combined 40m are we really saying that we’ll get better value or players with better quality of any.  Sell them if they won’t make the grade or we don’t need them but I think it is a bit of a false economy.  40m doesn’t get you a Jacob Ramsey quality player

[pauliewalnuts]

Man City made £40m from academy player sales last summer alone.

2014-18 they made a total of over £70m.

[john e]

Can you imagine how difficult it must be for a club like Bilbao to stay competitive with basically only using home grown players

[Dante Lavelli]

Can you imagine how difficult it must be for a club like Bilbao to stay competitive with basically only using home grown players

The fact they’ve never been relegated is incredible.  You wonder whether their Basque only rule has inadvertently helped create managers like Lopetegui, Arteta and Emery, in the sense that the Basque people know that they need to coach every last bit of talent out of every player.