Unai Emery

[Keeno]

Find it weird that people on one hand pick out Torres' individual errors as a point of difference to Ty, when I think for the 6-7 years of him being at the club the one clearly identifiable weakness in his game we could all agree on has been his tendency to cost us points with individual errors and lapses of concentration.

Both are good players and both have a role to play for us going forward.

I also find the erasure in people's minds of Torres and Konsa being our first choice CB pairing (when fit) for the entire 23/24 season where we finished 4th, got UCL and our highest ever points total utterly bizarre. He's got pretty much an entire season of work to point at - he's clearly fit for the level and capable of being in the XI of a CL-level team.

Bringing this back to the title of the thread, I think where we look poor defensively or defenders look uncomfortable, 9 times out of 10, its down to HOW the defence is being asked to play - the risks they're being asked to take, how committed they are to playing out instead of going long, the height of the line and man-to-man defending vs defending space, etc.

Frankly I think Unai tried to innovate how we were defending to make us more unpredictable in the first half of the season - realised he got it wrong - and corrected it really well from February-ish onwards. Depending on our transfer targets and the RB we assume we'll get, this could evolve further.

[Dave]

Depending on our transfer targets and the RB we assume we'll get, this could evolve further.

I think that's a brave assumption.

[Drummond]

Emery shows 'dignity' despite 'sour taste' - Nevin
published at 09:52
BBC Sport
Pat Nevin
Former footballer and presenter

Newcastle stumbled over the line to qualify for the Champions League after a poor display at home, in the end having to depend on Aston Villa slipping up against Manchester United. A stupid backpass left Villa with 10 men and a mountain to climb at Old Trafford but then came the moment of the weekend.

The goal Villa had disallowed could have put them in the lead. It could have delivered three points and their own place in the Champions League but it was incorrectly ruled out.

Most football lovers will know that when the referee blows his whistle, the game has officially stopped. There are no exceptions, even if seconds later the ball is in the net and the referee has erred badly. VAR is not allowed to interfere.

It's not the first time this has happened to grotesquely effect the outcome of a game but to turn an exciting season on its head and spoil an entire campaign for one side and all its fans, this must be close to unique blunder.

Maybe the rule has to be tweaked, maybe young referees need more training to learn how to deal with these rare situations. Maybe VAR should be allowed some discretion to get involved, but VAR was brought into clarify rules and the rules were adhered too.

This unfortunate situation left a sour taste and then some, but praise at least to Unai Emery once again. In his first interviews post match he dealt with it all with dignity. If only everyone else could take a leaf from his book.

To lose out unfairly and by nothing more than goal difference, not even a single point, at the end of a season must be incredibly hard to bear, but he did.

[eamonn]

He wasn't too dignified towards the lino or the ref when he came off. He's a winner, I don't want a nice guy.

[Brend'Watkins]

Pau’s a better overall player than Mings but what neither he nor Konsa offer is command of the area when we’re defending corners and free kicks. That’s not saying Mings is the best in the world at it, he’s just far superior than both. It’s a very important attribute to have. I also feel we have a better shape with Mings and doubt Cash would have fucked up so badly with him there.

[PeterWithe]

Pau’s a better overall player than Mings but what neither he nor Konsa offer is command of the area when we’re defending corners and free kicks. That’s not saying Mings is the best in the world at it, he’s just far superior than both. It’s a very important attribute to have. I also feel we have a better shape with Mings and doubt Cash would have fucked up so badly with him there.

And if Emi is leaving, as seems likely, thats another commanding figure absent.

[VillaTim]

Pau’s a better overall player than Mings but what neither he nor Konsa offer is command of the area when we’re defending corners and free kicks. That’s not saying Mings is the best in the world at it, he’s just far superior than both. It’s a very important attribute to have. I also feel we have a better shape with Mings and doubt Cash would have fucked up so badly with him there.

Incorrect. And it isn't just about defending free kicks and corners. Its about organisation, leadership, communication . Torres i hear has better passing ability , the eye test on this over the last few months puts that assumption into huge doubt also. If the future is building a defence around Torres it's flawed from the outset .

[PaulWinch again]

Your inability to see the notable difference in Torres’s range of passing and that of much of our team doesn’t really help your argument. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t make some mistakes when passing, back to the point of his form being shaky. But his capability on the ball is very obviously higher, particularly when compared to the other defenders. That’s not a slight on them, he’s just got a very high level range of passing.

[SamTheMouse]

Yeah, to be honest, Torres's distribution is meant to be his big asset, but that aspect of his game hasn't really grabbed me much this season (with a few notable exceptions, like against Bayern).

Whereas I have seen Mings play some pretty great passes too at times.

Factor in the reality that Mings is a far more dominant defender, and he'd probably be the first name on the team sheet for me. He's always been very consistent under Emery, despite a season out.

[PeterWithe]

You wonder if the drop off in Torres passing was due to Rogers move wide, that was often the vertical ball that got us running at a retreating defence.

[RamboandBruno]

Pau’s a better overall player than Mings but what neither he nor Konsa offer is command of the area when we’re defending corners and free kicks. That’s not saying Mings is the best in the world at it, he’s just far superior than both. It’s a very important attribute to have. I also feel we have a better shape with Mings and doubt Cash would have fucked up so badly with him there.

Incorrect. And it isn't just about defending free kicks and corners. Its about organisation, leadership, communication . Torres i hear has better passing ability , the eye test on this over the last few months puts that assumption into huge doubt also. If the future is building a defence around Torres it's flawed from the outset .

Chances are when you try more risky passing you’ll sometimes give it away more. Ill give you Tyrone being a more commanding defender etc etc, more of a leader,  but if you think Mings dawdling on the ball for those extra seconds before passing it sideways, is showing as good a range of passing as Pau, you are blinded by your own bias.
Im well aware this is never going anywhere as people (including me) are intrenched to a degree.
I think it would be ideal if we could somehow play them both.

[Dave]

You wonder if the drop off in Torres passing was due to Rogers move wide, that was often the vertical ball that got us running at a retreating defence.

I think that's a good point. Also last season, a lot of those "good" Torres passes were bypassing Kamara and DL, straight through them and the opposition to Tielemans who was further forward than he has been for a lot of this season, who then collected on the half-turn to carry it forward and play in Bailey or Watkins.

If Torres is now giving an easy ball to Tielemans twenty yards further back, it makes Tielemans' passing through the lines look better this season because he's now playing the Torres passes. But also means Pau looks like he's doing a lot less (which he sort of is) and it means that bit of his game becomes less important to us.

[Tony Daleys Shorts]

Excuse me if I'm being ignorant here, but hasn't Mings been carrying a knock? He didn't last the full 90 against Bournemouth when there was no need to bring him off.

I know Pau is one of Emery's favourites but hasn't his hand been forced slightly here by Ty not being 100% fit?

[Ian.]

I think that’s correct, he’s struggled to last 90 minutes and I’ve heard it been said he’s playing through pain, so if that is true this whole debate is quite irrelevant most of the time.

[Dogtanian]

I heard his elbow hurt in the Bournemouth game.