Unai Emery

[Risso]

If we're including coaches and caretaker managers, then Eric Back is my public enemy number one. He had the chance to try to salavage a bit of pride at least, but instead picked just about every single one of the maggots like Lescott that infested our corpse of a club at the time.

[VILLA MOLE]

If we're including coaches and caretaker managers, then Eric Back is my public enemy number one. He had the chance to try to salavage a bit of pride at least, but instead picked just about every single one of the maggots like Lescott that infested our corpse of a club at the time.

He really just gave up didnt he ?

[Risso]

If we're including coaches and caretaker managers, then Eric Back is my public enemy number one. He had the chance to try to salavage a bit of pride at least, but instead picked just about every single one of the maggots like Lescott that infested our corpse of a club at the time.

He really just gave up didnt he ?

It looked more mean-spirited at the time than lack of effort. Dropped all the foreign lads, picked all the English twats.

[LeeB]

If we're including coaches and caretaker managers, then Eric Back is my public enemy number one. He had the chance to try to salavage a bit of pride at least, but instead picked just about every single one of the maggots like Lescott that infested our corpse of a club at the time.

Harsh on pauliewalnuts best mate

[algy]

Everything about it seemed very lax and instant accepting of lower standards, from him actually taking two weeks to actually come and manage a game because he still had some gig at French FA, admitting he wasn't that bothered about losing to Liverpool 3-0 which cause a meltdown on here and then putting out a weakened team at Man. City in the cup to rest players for Bolton away three days later (we lost both).

That bit winds me up more than anything else, even now.  We'd bugger all to play for except the FA Cup, and we had a very good chance in that I thought.  If you look at the round after we were knocked out, the quarter finals were:

Small Heath v Bolton
Manc Utd v Arsenal
Stoke v West Ham
Manc City v Reading

We'd have done well in that, maybe won it.  Man City did in the end, of course, and we were better than them at that stage IMO.

[LeeB]

I think the reason for the shock and dismay with the BFR racism was because he has such a big hand in playing black players and bringing them through the ranks. Didn't we have a full outfield of black players one match under his watch with only the GK being white? Still doesn't give him the right to say what he said and he was rightly denigrated for it.

I adored Ron, but it wasn't just 'a bit racist' what he said was it? It was nasty and there was no context for it all, no angry exchange or anything like that. I used to think of him more bigoted than racist as the body of his work shows him to be one of the more cosmopolitan managers of the time in terms of giving black footballers opportunities, but actually it looks more like he was happy to use black players to further his own career and was happy to treat them as sub-humans when they weren't looking/listening.

I'm not black so I can't speak for those that are, but I've heard people say they almost prefer the 'obvious' racists because at least they know where they stand, the hidden racism is more unsettling.

[Risso]

I think the reason for the shock and dismay with the BFR racism was because he has such a big hand in playing black players and bringing them through the ranks. Didn't we have a full outfield of black players one match under his watch with only the GK being white? Still doesn't give him the right to say what he said and he was rightly denigrated for it.

I adored Ron, but it wasn't just 'a bit racist' what he said was it? It was nasty and there was no context for it all, no angry exchange or anything like that. I used to think of him more bigoted than racist as the body of his work shows him to be one of the more cosmopolitan managers of the time in terms of giving black footballers opportunities, but actually it looks more like he was happy to use black players to further his own career and was happy to treat them as sub-humans when they weren't looking/listening.

I'm not black so I can't speak for those that are, but I've heard people say they almost prefer the 'obvious' racists because at least they know where they stand, the hidden racism is more unsettling.

It's a really tricky one with Ron, and I don't feel qualified to comment on it fully. It was an extraordinarily disgraceful thing to say, and his 'apology' afterwards almost made it worse if that's possible. But then I've read comments from black players like Carlton Palmer who have said Ron's support for black players went far beyond just picking them, and that he was a big supporter of anti-racism programmes over the years. It's a big stain on his record though, and I guess on a similar level, Graham Taylor allegedly covering up allegations of child abuse is deeply problematic as well.

[Ads]

Is Taylor's legacy not sullied in people's eyes for asking children/parents not to complain about abuse?

[dave.woodhall]

Is Taylor's legacy not sullied in people's eyes for asking children/parents not to complain about abuse?

No. We never heard his side of the story and I don't for one minute think he did anything other than what he thought was right.

[Ads]

The first part of that is certainly true, but is there any scope to suggest Tony Brien was lying or misleading the inquiry? Certainly no suggestion of that. The evidence given that he visited a second boy and their family to do the same would be indicative of there being substance to the allegations.

Who knows what Taylor may have said in response, but short of denying it (and that would be unlikely based on the evidence) there's no moral equivocation thay can justify the alleged actions he took. I'm inclined to believe the victims and he is tainted for me.

[dave.woodhall]

I'm not suggesting that anyone is lying. I am saying that circumstances may have been different then and he did what he thought was right.

[rob_bridge]

I didn't personally dislike Gerrard, Bruce or McLeish, they just weren't very good at being football managers, all seemed decent blokes outside of that.

Never ever warmed to Gerrard - all that Golden Generation bollocks. The other 2 always struck me as blokes you could have a decent pie and a pint and shoot the breeze about football.

[hilts_coolerking]

Is Taylor's legacy not sullied in people's eyes for asking children/parents not to complain about abuse?

For me, it has to be taken into consideration.  For a man of such humanity to not have risen above what were undoubtedly the attitudes of the day surprises me.

[SamTheMouse]

BFR was the one. That coat. Those shades. That tan.

That racism?

Yeah, that was one of those gutting moments when your idols fall from their pedestals.

[RamboandBruno]

I'm not suggesting that anyone is lying. I am saying that circumstances may have been different then and he did what he thought was right.

Its a really difficult question Ads poses. Its easier in some ways, like i have to be fair, to praise BFR but then distance ourselves from his obvious and blatant racism, despite the nuances of him promoting black players.
With SGT, its tricky, he seemed a man of such morality, but yet it would be difficult to perceive that he never asked those boys and families to move on from the issue. Im sure he did deal with the issue in the way he thought was right, although it wasn’t the way to deal with it. There maybe a sense of time and place as well, with awareness of issues related to sexual abuse being much more in the public space now than 30 odd years ago. Not excusing SGTs action or inaction, but maybe people involved in the sport now would feel better equipped in what they should do if such allegations arise. We can stand here now in 2023 and say exactly what action we would take in his position. I would hope that in every conceivable situation i would do whats right, i would hope that would be the case back in 1988 or whenever, but the structures for dealing with such issues were different then and society perceived allegations of this kind differently.

Its really difficult to square the circle sometimes and the mans not here to say why he did what he did.