Next Manager Speculation/Hopes

[PaulWinch again]

You probably only need to finish fifth in future seasons.

This is a longstanding problem, but I hate the watering down of the European Cup.

[Rory]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

What? Who truthfully expects us to finish above all the London sides? Even if 'eventually'?

If you aim to qualify for the Champions League, you'll at least have to finish ahead of one from Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, and West Ham for obvious reasons - and in reality, if Man City and Liverpool take 2 of the CL spots, which they will for the foreseeable, then you'd need to finish above at least 3 in that group ... plus Crystal Palace, Fulham, Brentford, ..

There's no way around it - if your ambitions are eventually to compete in Europe, you're going to have to finish above sides that are currently playing in Europe.  Which means finishing above those London sides.

But it's an aim, nobody expects it. We aim to be challenging for it.

It's no wonder idiots in the media think we're delusional if they reckon we expect to be playing in the Champions League next season.

[algy]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

What? Who truthfully expects us to finish above all the London sides? Even if 'eventually'?

If you aim to qualify for the Champions League, you'll at least have to finish ahead of one from Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, and West Ham for obvious reasons - and in reality, if Man City and Liverpool take 2 of the CL spots, which they will for the foreseeable, then you'd need to finish above at least 3 in that group ... plus Crystal Palace, Fulham, Brentford, ..

There's no way around it - if your ambitions are eventually to compete in Europe, you're going to have to finish above sides that are currently playing in Europe.  Which means finishing above those London sides.

But it's an aim, nobody expects it. We aim to be challenging for it.

It's no wonder idiots in the media think we're delusional if they reckon we expect to be playing in the Champions League next season.

I don't think we'd aim to get in to the Champions League any time soon.  But the owner's stated ambition has been to do exactly that.  Not this season, not next season - but at some point (I imagine within the next decade) we ought to be competing for those spots.

That's, I think, my point.  OK, this season most folk will be fairly content at the end of the season if we've stood still again and finish mid table again.  But then the expectation is to challenge for 7th/8th.  And if we ever finish 7th/8th, then it will be to finish 5th/6th.  And when we were finishing 5th/6th under O'Neill, was anyone saying that we shouldn't be trying to get in to the Champions League?

That's what I'm trying to say.  Different seasons will mean different ambitions, and nobody is expecting miracles, but whoever the manager is - they'll be expected to progressively make the side better until we're (at least) playing occasional Champions League football*.  We know that, because that's exactly what happened under MON.



* complete tangent ... but personally, I think that's the sweet spot.  Good enough that you win a cup final every 5-10 years, good enough that you might win the league if you get super lucky ... but not so good that you're disappointed if you don't do that.

[dave.woodhall]

Sorry to labour the point, but I didn't expect by now to be content with mid-table.

[Rory]

That's absolutely fair, Algy. I just think it's dangerous to talk about some things as being 'expectations', like we're a bunch of Man Utd fans sat there shaking our heads, talking about finishing 2nd as a crisis.

If Gerrard gets us playing better (I know, I know) and has us finishing 10th in May, I don't think there'll be too many complaining. But if you believe some of the media, we are baying animals who hound out any manager who doesn't have us in the top 4 immediately.

[Rory]

Sorry to labour the point, but I didn't expect by now to be content with mid-table.

Based on when, Dave? Because going from bottom half of the Championship to top 6 in the PL within four years would've taken the full Man City treatment and from a much lower starting point.

[cdbearsfan]

I'd have expected promotion in the first one or two seasons, survival first season up, midtable the year after that and then to challenge for Europe. So we were on or ahead of schedule but now looking like we have gone backwards from midtable to another battle at the bottom of the table.

I'm still hoping for midtable this year and to be challenging for Europe next.

[Duncan Shaw]

The flip-flopping on strategy is a good point - it seemed a valid plan, buying young with potential, Lange with a proven track record of that in the past, structure in place below the head coach but Purslow let that be ripped up as a plan by Gerrard. 

I think Wes believed he could repeat the NBA thing quite easily with the home grown superstar - and it was certainly heading quite nicely down that track, until it all blew up and blindsided them all, and they haven't recovered yet!  I think as ruthless businessmen, they now need to show that steel, tell Purslow his game is over and go out and do their damdest to get the best manager available.  If there is any iota of interest from the likes of Poch or Tuchel they should be all over it like a rash and putting those wheels in motion now!  And if CP doesn't like it he can trot off too!

[Rory]

I'd have expected promotion in the first one or two seasons, survival first season up, midtable the year after that and then to challenge for Europe. So we were on or ahead of schedule but now looking like we have gone backwards from midtable to another battle at the bottom of the table.

I'm still hoping for midtable this year and to be challenging for Europe next.

Pretty much same as me.

[dave.woodhall]

Sorry to labour the point, but I didn't expect by now to be content with mid-table.

Based on when, Dave? Because going from bottom half of the Championship to top 6 in the PL within four years would've taken the full Man City treatment and from a much lower starting point.

When we got the third-richest owners in the league I would have expected to at least be challenging for Europe by now. Wolves managed it, Newcastle have gone roaring past us, West Ham have gone from relegation candidates to Europe and Leeds finished higher in their first season than we have in three. Meanwhile, we're looking at beating Fulham or Brentford to save the manager's job. .

[chrisw1]

I expect us as a club to be top 6 and challenging for trophies.  Not this season, but as a general point of principal.

That is where Villia sit in the hieracrchy and where I expect us to get back to.  It's become harder with the emergence of the likes of Man City and now Newcastle, but it doesn't really change how I see Aston Villa and what I expect from the club. 

[Duncan Shaw]

Sorry to labour the point, but I didn't expect by now to be content with mid-table.

Based on when, Dave? Because going from bottom half of the Championship to top 6 in the PL within four years would've taken the full Man City treatment and from a much lower starting point.

When we got the third-richest owners in the league I would have expected to at least be challenging for Europe by now. Wolves managed it, Newcastle have gone roaring past us, West Ham have gone from relegation candidates to Europe and Leeds finished higher in their first season than we have in three. Meanwhile, we're looking at beating Fulham or Brentford to save the manager's job. .

I'm with Dave

[Rory]

Sorry to labour the point, but I didn't expect by now to be content with mid-table.

Based on when, Dave? Because going from bottom half of the Championship to top 6 in the PL within four years would've taken the full Man City treatment and from a much lower starting point.

When we got the third-richest owners in the league I would have expected to at least be challenging for Europe by now. Wolves managed it, Newcastle have gone roaring past us, West Ham have gone from relegation candidates to Europe and Leeds finished higher in their first season than we have in three. Meanwhile, we're looking at beating Fulham or Brentford to save the manager's job. .

Fair points. I can't see Wolves, West Ham or Leeds sustaining anything meaningful, and hopefully Newcastle manage to bollocks things up in their traditional way.

I'm sure it's been posted before, but how does our spending actually compare with the rest of the PL?

[paul_e]

I think it's fair to expect to be competitive. I don't think any Villa fan seriously expects (not hopes, different things) to be qualifying for the champions league every season by now but I think it's perfectly reasonable for us to expect to be in the top half of the table and in the picture for european palces towards the end of the season. Our wage bill supports that, our spending supports that, our plans for the ground and academy support that.

Right now everything about the club looks like we plan to compete in the league rather than just exist, except for what happens on the pitch. This thread exists because of that disconnect, all of the debate around Gerrard, the quality of the squad, the level of interest from the owners, etc exists because as fans we can see that something isn't adding up.

[Meanwood Villa]

https://twitter.com/exploding_heads/status/1582091490523697153?s=48&t=BxKnyVL2qqmqJxfxGAL3pw