Crest Review

[Risso]

Doesn't sound like a lot's changed in the ten years since that was said about him.

[Ads]

What ethos is there to get for a team calling itself New York that actually plays in a different state, that's also named after an energy drink famed for its mixing with vodka.

[Brend'Watkins]

It's a little odd that we're discussing something that really only goes back as far as 1957.  It's not that long ago is it? Just the lion on it's own would suffice.  That's our brand, you don't need wording.  A star can be added once we're back in the CL.

The proper shield goes back to at least 1924 when the Trinity Road was built and I am sure much before that on correspondence etc.

We had a Lion rampant on it's own depicted on the shirts from 1878 to 1882.  We may well have had a badge/shield or Logo on correspondence for a long time but the badge/shield design on the shirt started in 1957 I think.

[jon collett]

We had a Lion rampant on it's own depicted on the shirts from 1878 to 1882.  We may well have had a badge/shield or Logo on correspondence for a long time but the badge/shield design on the shirt started in 1957 I think.

That's true but I was talking about the Club crest which is best seen on the entrance, walls, gable of the Trinity. and is to all intents and purposes the definitive Club badge!

It's clearly not a recent thing at all!

[LeeB]

Have a guess who these comments about from his time at Red Bull, after he was sacked:

"I don’t think people really comprehend how much damage he’s done in the little time he’s been there, one team insider said. He added: He just came off as arrogant and ignorant, and in this business it’s a very bad combination. He was so arrogant, you just couldn’t talk to him. You don’t have to be a 100 percent soccer guy, able to name all the players on Brazil’s 1970 World Cup-winning team, but you have to have a basic understanding of the sport you’re working in. And that was clearly lacking."

Oh.

You can dig up a shit report about pretty much anyone you want.

Really?

*sweats profusely, loosens collar*

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

We had a Lion rampant on it's own depicted on the shirts from 1878 to 1882.  We may well have had a badge/shield or Logo on correspondence for a long time but the badge/shield design on the shirt started in 1957 I think.

That's true but I was talking about the Club crest which is best seen on the entrance, walls, gable of the Trinity. and is to all intents and purposes the definitive Club badge!

It's clearly not a recent thing at all!

And that's the badge I always relate to when I think of The Villa...it was the "original" one in my Villa experience which started in about 1957, so everything that came after is "new"!

[pablo_picasso]

I dislike pretty much everything about the new badge.  But the thing that irks me the most is the lack of symmetry on the lettering - the space between the words not lining up centrally with the point of the shield.  I'm no graphic designer so those who are please tell me if this isn't possible, but it feels to me you could probably adjust the font and spacing to rectify this?  If not, then surely the solution is to have the name at the top of the badge as per the current shield, not the current mess?

And if the lion is going to be yellowish, why not change it to a more antique gold colour as per the 150 anniversary logo?  Similar to Arsenal's badge (and matching Adidas logo), which looks infinitely better than ours.  Infact, it shows how well a claret background could work in the shield too.

Yes its possible with kerning, however, Im not sure the balance would look correct across all lettering if you made it so that the two words were made to have the space between them aligned centrally. But without playing around with the kerning myself, I couldn't say 100% for sure. But my gut tells me it would look odd.

Yes. For central alignment balance, the most obvious choice would have it at the top of the shield. You dont have the central drop in the shield, which highlights the spacing you mention. The curve isn't so severe at the top there either, so that would make the kerning look instantly more balanced in-between the letters. So having it at the top is the obvious choice for me, for several reasons.

Have a guess who these comments about from his time at Red Bull, after he was sacked:

"I don’t think people really comprehend how much damage he’s done in the little time he’s been there, one team insider said. He added: He just came off as arrogant and ignorant, and in this business it’s a very bad combination. He was so arrogant, you just couldn’t talk to him. You don’t have to be a 100 percent soccer guy, able to name all the players on Brazil’s 1970 World Cup-winning team, but you have to have a basic understanding of the sport you’re working in. And that was clearly lacking."

Oh.

Shock, and or, horror...

[Simon Page]

Have a guess who these comments about from his time at Red Bull, after he was sacked:

"I don’t think people really comprehend how much damage he’s done in the little time he’s been there, one team insider said. He added: He just came off as arrogant and ignorant, and in this business it’s a very bad combination. He was so arrogant, you just couldn’t talk to him. You don’t have to be a 100 percent soccer guy, able to name all the players on Brazil’s 1970 World Cup-winning team, but you have to have a basic understanding of the sport you’re working in. And that was clearly lacking."

Oh.

I have met so many of these in my working life. Without fail they fail and fck off to do it again somewhere else. Please God tell me he's learned, or his bosses are willing to clip him when needed.

[Risso]

Same here Simon, especially in the sales and marketing sphere, where bullshit rules completely.

[Sexual Ealing]

Same here Simon, especially in the sales and marketing sphere, where bullshit rules completely.

That's my sphere, and you're spot on.

[Nii Lamptey]

Same here Simon, especially in the sales and marketing sphere, where bullshit rules completely.

Probably the same in most professions - We have a few of those types working in the videogames industry. I keep a list of 'People I'll NEVER work for/with again'. As Si mentioned - They always seem to snag another gig, normally jumping before they're pushed.

[Gareth]

Same here Simon, especially in the sales and marketing sphere, where bullshit rules completely.

Probably the same in most professions - We have a few of those types working in the videogames industry. I keep a list of 'People I'll NEVER work for/with again'. As Si mentioned - They always seem to snag another gig, normally jumping before they're pushed.

I call it ‘3 year mover’ - they never stay more than 3 years because shit sticks if you stay too long

[Reformation]

This is an interesting debate across platforms, not just because we can all see 'what we could have won' but also because we've all had different iterations through our lives - regardless of generations that evokes some sense of 'what is Aston Villa' to each of us.

From someone who has branded organisations, one area I would initially look at is to look at the most common aspects across the clubs crest history, thinking about what has been most prevelant. I'd then look to balance this against moderninity and areas of conflict.

I settle on the below for the following reasons:

1. Lion facing left, self explanatory. It was orginally in print in claret for print and laterly gold on the trinity in the 1920s. Then claret on the first proper crest on the shirt. I'd use the Lerner lion v2 for consistency, and the detailed version is very good.
2. Ribbon, used on our badges from 1880s until 2000s. I've based the blue border similar to how the colours are used on the mosiacs which is something we are known for.
3. Year...balances requests and adds something.
4. Whilst a shield has been used in any form across the club from 1880s until now, even at the same point as the roundel, I'd remove the debate and use shapes as part of a wider brand strategy. (E.g. shapes around the lion for merch, on the back of shirt for say celebratory / nostalgic reimagined kits)
5. Name in full as its unique / requested.

Star etc. can form part of a wider brand hierarchy, same way as I would use 'the villans' and 'the lions'.

I'd put the gold version on the shirt and claret elsewhere - no different to how Liverpool uses their red liverbird in print and elsewhere and typically white on their homeshirt.

[German James]

Genuinely no problem with the thinking behind it, the design itself or its execution.
*EDIT* Well done!

[LeeB]

This is an interesting debate across platforms

I'd like to take issue with that assertion.