Gerrard In or Out?

[Beard82]

Without getting too deeply into the in/out debate, why should Gerrard's name neccesarily attract top players? Are footballers really so shallow that they will turn down the chance of trophes and Europe just because another club's manager was a good player?

Unfortunately I think they are.  I think it’s a bloody disgrace if the thing you are excited about is playing under a great ex pro - rather then one of the most famous clubs in the world - but I think it is the case.

It’s like banning ketchup - surely it’s absolutely irrelevant but yet it happens.  Conte and Gerrard both seem to have had a look at the sauce list in the canteen and decided it was part of the problem

[Brazilian Villain]

It’s like banning ketchup - surely it’s absolutely irrelevant but yet it happens.  Conte and Gerrard both seem to have had a look at the sauce list in the canteen and decided it was part of the problem

And who can blame them? Dreadful stuff.

[cdbearsfan]

I think he should stay so he can build his own squad. I think he's got more out of Smith's post-Grealish squad. I think he proved me utterly wrong about a player like Marv in his short spell, as stubborn as I was. I think him being back against Leicester will help, given our absolute contrivance to gift the softest of goals, which we didn't when he played. We exerted a strangle on games such as Palace away.

I dont like him sticking with out of form players, but I don't think he rates the squad. I don't rate our spine and I have the ability of hindsight to admit I was wrong about the summer recruitment, it left us deficient in a key area we've been lacking for a few seasons.

I really like the way we play when we click. That 3 game run was very good, the 3 games thereafter were frustrating. We dont grind draws, a hangover from Smith too. Sours was probably one of the oddest games I've ever seen.

I think there's more structure to our play now from the jumbled mess that we ended with (the positions away at Southampton were grim). I think the system whether it's 4312 we've played of late or 4321 is wholly dependent on both Cash and Digne being fit. He doesn't trust the wingers, we as fans didn't particularly last season and Bailey is miles off.

I want to see him given funds to solve the midfield woes, solve the central defensive issue of giving a free gift every game. I want to see him attract more exciting players like Coutinho too, but my main aim is the dull, difficult work. That would be the same whoever was in charge.

I see absolutely no reason to jettison him.

Thanks. I don't massively concur with most of those points but do agree we play some good stuff at times, but that just makes it all the more frustrating how rare it is.

I'd also say that we should look fantastic a lot of the time. We have Buendia, Coutinho, Bailey, Watkins and Ings as our attacking options. I feel like a really good manager could have some combination of those players terrifying opponents more often than for a half once every two or three games.

Meanwhile, the defence seems as bad as at any time since we got promoted.

Contrary to what you've presumed, while I didn't want him appointed, once he was here, I wanted him to succeed. I thought he came in for unfair stick after Brentford, in particular, which was just one of those days where the opposition were jammy as fuck.  In spite of my entirely reasonable revulsion for his playing career, I don't particularly dislike him on a personal level any more. He generally comes across well in interviews and seems to have taken the club to heart.

I just think that he isn't getting anywhere near the best out of the players at his disposal. Only Cash is playing better than he has before in his career. Many are nowhere near their best.

I feel that we have the ambition and the finances to attract one of the best managers on Earth. I haven't seen anything in Gerrard to suggest that he will reach that level based on what he's achieved at Villa or at "Rangers" and I think we would be looking in a shallower pool of managerial talent if we end up looking for a new manager mid-season, as usual. That's why, barring significant improvement, I'd part ways at the end of the season.

I'd quite like us to be really, really fucking good again at some point before we all die and believe that a top class, proven manager provides a greater chance of that happening than we have under the current incumbent.

[dave.woodhall]

Without getting too deeply into the in/out debate, why should Gerrard's name neccesarily attract top players? Are footballers really so shallow that they will turn down the chance of trophes and Europe just because another club's manager was a good player?

We've signed the world's 4th most expensive player because of the manager.

Let's see if he stays before getting too excited about that one.

[Drummond]

I think he should stay so he can build his own squad. I think he's got more out of Smith's post-Grealish squad. I think he proved me utterly wrong about a player like Marv in his short spell, as stubborn as I was. I think him being back against Leicester will help, given our absolute contrivance to gift the softest of goals, which we didn't when he played. We exerted a strangle on games such as Palace away.

I dont like him sticking with out of form players, but I don't think he rates the squad. I don't rate our spine and I have the ability of hindsight to admit I was wrong about the summer recruitment, it left us deficient in a key area we've been lacking for a few seasons.

I really like the way we play when we click. That 3 game run was very good, the 3 games thereafter were frustrating. We dont grind draws, a hangover from Smith too. Sours was probably one of the oddest games I've ever seen.

I think there's more structure to our play now from the jumbled mess that we ended with (the positions away at Southampton were grim). I think the system whether it's 4312 we've played of late or 4321 is wholly dependent on both Cash and Digne being fit. He doesn't trust the wingers, we as fans didn't particularly last season and Bailey is miles off.

I want to see him given funds to solve the midfield woes, solve the central defensive issue of giving a free gift every game. I want to see him attract more exciting players like Coutinho too, but my main aim is the dull, difficult work. That would be the same whoever was in charge.

I see absolutely no reason to jettison him.

Thanks. I don't massively concur with most of those points but do agree we play some good stuff at times, but that just makes it all the more frustrating how rare it is.

I'd also say that we should look fantastic a lot of the time. We have Buendia, Coutinho, Bailey, Watkins and Ings as our attacking options. I feel like a really good manager could have some combination of those players terrifying opponents more often than for a half once every two or three games.

Meanwhile, the defence seems as bad as at any time since we got promoted.

Contrary to what you've presumed, while I didn't want him appointed, once he was here, I wanted him to succeed. I thought he came in for unfair stick after Brentford, in particular, which was just one of those days where the opposition were jammy as fuck.  In spite of my entirely reasonable revulsion for his playing career, I don't particularly dislike him on a personal level any more. He generally comes across well in interviews and seems to have taken the club to heart.

I just think that he isn't getting anywhere near the best out of the players at his disposal. Only Cash is playing better than he has before in his career. Many are nowhere near their best.

I feel that we have the ambition and the finances to attract one of the best managers on Earth. I haven't seen anything in Gerrard to suggest that he will reach that level based on what he's achieved at Villa or at "Rangers" and I think we would be looking in a shallower pool of managerial talent if we end up looking for a new manager mid-season, as usual. That's why, barring significant improvement, I'd part ways at the end of the season.

I'd quite like us to be really, really fucking good again at some point before we all die and believe that a top class, proven manager provides a greater chance of that happening than we have under the current incumbent.

Have to say I agree with this.

[Drummond]

I didn't want him because I'd seen nothing that warranted the appointment. I also didn't particularly want Smith but as a mid-table side in the Championship it was always going to be hard to attract a top manager.

Smith though continued to improve us. This season started poorly and I could see why he needed to go. We can all argue about what might have happened had he stayed but we will never know.

Gerrard hasn't convinced me yet. I'll agree that he has spoken well and said the right things. The issue is that following that new manager bounce, we dropped, picked up again for three games and have subsequently gone backwards again.

I hope it's just taking time to settle and that it will come good. Because I like how he's handled the press and questions. We need an upturn though, because I'll be seriously pissed off if we lose an even better player this summer than we did last.

Anyway, there were signs in the 1st half of Spuds. Let's hope we click, because when we do, someone will be on the receiving end!

[olaftab]

Totally agree with CD and Drummond. Gerrard gets done by better coaches every time. The man is not good enough as a coach for a team aiming to be in top half never mind too 6 of this league. We can not afford to wait for him to learn his job.

[tomd2103]

Totally agree with CD and Drummond. Gerrard gets done by better coaches every time. The man is not good enough as a coach for a team aiming to be in top half never mind too 6 of this league. We can not afford to wait for him to learn his job.

I think "in-game" management is a huge part of modern football given the different formations teams now employ during games.

In generations gone by, teams in this country pretty much all played the same formation, so it was really a case of getting the better of your opponent on the day.  Motivating players was therefore arguably the most important aspect of managing a team.  In the modern game, managers might employ a few different formations in the same game, so tactical nous and being able to adapt when needed.

Our two most recent managers have both had very little experience of managing in the top flight and are still very much learning at that level.  My main criticism of both during their time here would be that they don't seem to adapt to changes made by the opposition during games and just don't seem to currently have that nous, which may of course come with more experience.

With Steven Gerrard, there is a clear 'plan A' which he has implemented from the start of his time at the club.  The issue I have seen, is there doesn't really seem to be other options when 'plan A' isn't working.

Still think it is far too early to write him off though and talk of him being sacked is very premature.

[Rory]

Without getting too deeply into the in/out debate, why should Gerrard's name neccesarily attract top players? Are footballers really so shallow that they will turn down the chance of trophes and Europe just because another club's manager was a good player?

We've signed the world's 4th most expensive player because of the manager.

Let's see if he stays before getting too excited about that one.

No doubt we only got him because of Gerrard, but I'd be amazed if we managed to sign him pernanently.

[Toronto Villa]

Totally agree with CD and Drummond. Gerrard gets done by better coaches every time. The man is not good enough as a coach for a team aiming to be in top half never mind too 6 of this league. We can not afford to wait for him to learn his job.

Before we just write him off many managers went on to be much better than the record they had at the early stages of their career. Case in point the bloke many think he’ll ultimately replace in Klopp. Look at his record at Mainz; did nothing of note and eventually oversaw their relegation. Left them for Borussia where it suddenly clicked for him. I’m not for a second suggesting Gerrard is the next coming of Klopp or any other top manager, but a few months in, there is no way to tell how successful he will or won’t be. And as we have seen at Everton and Man U; “established” well known names have done the square root of fuck all. 

[olaftab]

Without getting too deeply into the in/out debate, why should Gerrard's name neccesarily attract top players? Are footballers really so shallow that they will turn down the chance of trophes and Europe just because another club's manager was a good player?

We've signed the world's 4th most expensive player because of the manager.

Who WAS the most expensive player but did nothing at Barca or Bayern and probably had very little choice to play regular football at a decent level other than joining us and will only stick with us if he thinks it might harm his chances of making the Brazilian WC squad if he went somewhere else.

[Scott Nielsen]

So to summarize:

Purslow is an empty-headed groupie, entirely star-struck by Gerrard. Wes Eden and Nassef Sawiris, who have accomplished nothing of note in life, completely taken in by a charlatan masquerading as a football manager.

Gerrard is done in by every single manager, every time. Just look at how Conte's marrionettes on the field lulled us into a false sense of security by letting themselves be played off the park in the first half. He then came up with a tactical masterclass by telling Son "instead of missing all your chances like Villa's players, score instead" (still swooning from this supreme show of sage advice, which could only have come from one of the absolute top coaches in the world).

Football matches are won solely by the manager. The players on the pitch are an irrelevance.

All good football managers have a Plan B, Plan C and Plan D and switch between these seamlessly, match in, match out, because that is was good managers do. Good managers also abhor a preferred style because what would the value of that be - an ingrained system that players know and understand is clearly a disadvantage and if they don't get it instantly, change it around - and then change it again - because that is what all great managers do.

Gerrard is incapable of learning. Anything. Neither him nor anyone in his team are capable enough to analyse our matches and, if they do, they are clearly not as good at it as everyone else. The only reason he is not changing anything around is because he is too stupid to, as is his entire team. It has nothing to do with what he sees at the training ground, nothing to do with the long-term vision he has of how he wants Villa to play. It is because he just doesn't understand anything about football, nor does his support team.

[ChicagoLion]

So to summarize:

Purslow is an empty-headed groupie, entirely star-struck by Gerrard. Wes Eden and Nassef Sawiris, who have accomplished nothing of note in life, completely taken in by a charlatan masquerading as a football manager.

Gerrard is done in by every single manager, every time. Just look at how Conte's marrionettes on the field lulled us into a false sense of security by letting themselves be played off the park in the first half. He then came up with a tactical masterclass by telling Son "instead of missing all your chances like Villa's players, score instead" (still swooning from this supreme show of sage advice, which could only have come from one of the absolute top coaches in the world).

Football matches are won solely by the manager. The players on the pitch are an irrelevance.

All good football managers have a Plan B, Plan C and Plan D and switch between these seamlessly, match in, match out, because that is was good managers do. Good managers also abhor a preferred style because what would the value of that be - an ingrained system that players know and understand is clearly a disadvantage and if they don't get it instantly, change it around - and then change it again - because that is what all great managers do.

Gerrard is incapable of learning. Anything. Neither him nor anyone in his team are capable enough to analyse our matches and, if they do, they are clearly not as good at it as everyone else. The only reason he is not changing anything around is because he is too stupid to, as is his entire team. It has nothing to do with what he sees at the training ground, nothing to do with the long-term vision he has of how he wants Villa to play. It is because he just doesn't understand anything about football, nor does his support team.

Sir, I like the cut of your jib.

[Taylor]

Totally agree with CD and Drummond. Gerrard gets done by better coaches every time. The man is not good enough as a coach for a team aiming to be in top half never mind too 6 of this league. We can not afford to wait for him to learn his job.

I disagree, I think we can wait. We’re not going down. Surely what we cannot afford to do is keep changing the manager every few months. We’re not f**king Watford. I think it was mentioned earlier, but didn’t Arsenal’s fickle fan base mostly want Arteta out at the start of the season, and now they are pushing for a CL spot.

[Nunkin1965]

Without getting too deeply into the in/out debate, why should Gerrard's name neccesarily attract top players? Are footballers really so shallow that they will turn down the chance of trophes and Europe just because another club's manager was a good player?

We've signed the world's 4th most expensive player because of the manager.

Who WAS the most expensive player but did nothing at Barca or Bayern and probably had very little choice to play regular football at a decent level other than joining us and will only stick with us if he thinks it might harm his chances of making the Brazilian WC squad if he went somewhere else.

Brilliant.
I've watched one of the best players who play the game over his short period of time he's been with us put on an Aston Villa shirt and at times be miles ahead of those around him in a footballing sense and its a so called negative move by the club?