Gerrard In or Out?

[paul_e]

Mings, McGinn, Martinez, Buendia, Luiz, Cash and Watkins have shown themselves to be competent at this level of football - competent enough to earn international recognition for highly ranked international teams during their time with us. Bailey made waves in a league as strong as the Bundesliga and Konsa looked like he could make the transition to either the England or Portugal set up with ease.

SG has since added Digne and Coutinho to an already solid squad.

But we have to suddenly ignore all that and concede he has been given a duff hand in some way - and needs a total rebuild to make us competitive.

Sorry, don't buy it.

It's not a binary thing though, just because we have the basis of a good team/squad doesn't mean Gerrard hasn't had a tough 6 months. This is why giving him the summer is important for me.

It's his chance to put the work in to ensure things are better next year but it's also the clubs chance to wipe away those explanations/excuses and make him fully accountable.

[Risso]

Exactly Paul, this group of players has been underperforming since the start of January 2021. They might be internationals, but they're massively inconsistent, and if they lose today it'll be the second time they've lost 5 games in a row in a season, under two different managers. I'm not sure what it's going to take before the penny drops that perhaps these players just maybe ain't all that.

We don't need a total rebuild but we do need 3-4 quality additions down the spine of the team.

[Ads]

Agreed and agreed. We had problems with the the Villa side + the Floppy Haired one. We took him out and spent a summer trying to replace him, but didn't fix the the long term issues Smith had. We went through January and didn't remedy the issue either. Yes we absolutely added quality in Digne and Coutinho, but the problem remains extant. We've been better than we were under Smith this season, but not as much as we'd like.

I think the 9 single goal defeats show a fundamental flaw, but not an insurmountable chasm. Even in games where we've been rank, such as Wolves, better studs and keeper knowing nothing about that save at the end from Cash and you have a point.

A serious injection of quality into that spine will benefit us immensely. If Grealish had stuck around and we'd spent £100m on a central defender, defensive midfielder etc last summer, Smith would still be here, who knows.

But we need to fix/upgrade what's been problematic since promotion.

[AV82EC]

To summarise, we’re still an easy pushover and soft as shite when the chips are down. We can outplay anyone but lack the cojones to dig in and play for something. That’s not about the quality of the team that’s about mentality. It needs fixing and I’m sure Gerrard knows who fits into that and who doesn’t.

[Ian.]

To summarise, we’re still an easy pushover and soft as shite when the chips are down. We can outplay anyone but lack the cojones to dig in and play for something. That’s not about the quality of the team that’s about mentality. It needs fixing and I’m sure Gerrard knows who fits into that and who doesn’t.

That’s probably the most accurate summary of us I’ve seen. That could have been said for the last two seasons under two different managers now. Which maybe makes me wonder about the mentality of our players and not coaches.

[ChicagoLion]

The Greasy will he won’t he debacle last summer really fucked us up.
He made ordinary players look better and play better. We went into this season under prepared and half baked.
We didn’t have a plan B on the pitch when Greasy wasn’t playing and we didn’t have a plan B to replace him.
Smith paid the price and nothing we have done since despite spending a £130mil + the Coutinho loan fee has arrested the situation,  they waisted the Greasy money .
We are still a PL team struggling without that once in a generation player.
How all of this can be blamed on Gerrard I don’t know, the post Greasy Villa is a huge challenge and would tax managers with far more experience than Gerrard.
The blame should be aimed at those responsible for the preparation for the new season and the transfers that were made.

There's a bunch of stuff in there that's irrelevant but the top and bottom lines are the key to the mess we've seen this season and the number of people to blame is huge. I don't think it's accurate or fair to claim that the rest of the squad is ordinary without him or that the signings we made last summer and January are a waste.


Bailey, for example, arrived injured and has never really recovered to get to the level needed in this league. He desperately needs a proper summer this year to get back on track, Digne is quality but has been really unlucky with injurues since he signed and Buendia has shown his quality but we need to work out how to make the best use of him.


Ings I have more concerns with but even then I think if we can get the midfield right and the fullbacks doing what Gerrard wants he can be an asset in this squad, but he needs a goal right now as his confidence is shot.

Well thanks for marking my paper, I find that a bit rude but you obviously have some issues.
You might need to consider that yours is not the only valid opinion on here and you are not the final arbiter.

[Nunkin1965]

The Greasy will he won’t he debacle last summer really fucked us up.
He made ordinary players look better and play better. We went into this season under prepared and half baked.
We didn’t have a plan B on the pitch when Greasy wasn’t playing and we didn’t have a plan B to replace him.
Smith paid the price and nothing we have done since despite spending a £130mil + the Coutinho loan fee has arrested the situation,  they waisted the Greasy money .
We are still a PL team struggling without that once in a generation player.
How all of this can be blamed on Gerrard I don’t know, the post Greasy Villa is a huge challenge and would tax managers with far more experience than Gerrard.
The blame should be aimed at those responsible for the preparation for the new season and the transfers that were made.

There's a bunch of stuff in there that's irrelevant but the top and bottom lines are the key to the mess we've seen this season and the number of people to blame is huge. I don't think it's accurate or fair to claim that the rest of the squad is ordinary without him or that the signings we made last summer and January are a waste.


Bailey, for example, arrived injured and has never really recovered to get to the level needed in this league. He desperately needs a proper summer this year to get back on track, Digne is quality but has been really unlucky with injurues since he signed and Buendia has shown his quality but we need to work out how to make the best use of him.


Ings I have more concerns with but even then I think if we can get the midfield right and the fullbacks doing what Gerrard wants he can be an asset in this squad, but he needs a goal right now as his confidence is shot.

Well thanks for marking my paper, I find that a bit rude but you obviously have some issues.
You might need to consider that yours is not the only valid opinion on here and you are not the final arbiter.

Tbf I did think the crossing out was a bit too far and not something I'd do to another poster.

[Clampy]

The Greasy will he won’t he debacle last summer really fucked us up.
He made ordinary players look better and play better. We went into this season under prepared and half baked.
We didn’t have a plan B on the pitch when Greasy wasn’t playing and we didn’t have a plan B to replace him.
Smith paid the price and nothing we have done since despite spending a £130mil + the Coutinho loan fee has arrested the situation,  they waisted the Greasy money .
We are still a PL team struggling without that once in a generation player.
How all of this can be blamed on Gerrard I don’t know, the post Greasy Villa is a huge challenge and would tax managers with far more experience than Gerrard.
The blame should be aimed at those responsible for the preparation for the new season and the transfers that were made.

There's a bunch of stuff in there that's irrelevant but the top and bottom lines are the key to the mess we've seen this season and the number of people to blame is huge. I don't think it's accurate or fair to claim that the rest of the squad is ordinary without him or that the signings we made last summer and January are a waste.


Bailey, for example, arrived injured and has never really recovered to get to the level needed in this league. He desperately needs a proper summer this year to get back on track, Digne is quality but has been really unlucky with injurues since he signed and Buendia has shown his quality but we need to work out how to make the best use of him.


Ings I have more concerns with but even then I think if we can get the midfield right and the fullbacks doing what Gerrard wants he can be an asset in this squad, but he needs a goal right now as his confidence is shot.

Well thanks for marking my paper, I find that a bit rude but you obviously have some issues.
You might need to consider that yours is not the only valid opinion on here and you are not the final arbiter.

Agree. Sorry Paul, that's not on. You're not a headmaster you know.

[kippaxvilla2]

See me.

[Mister E]

To summarise, we’re still an easy pushover and soft as shite when the chips are down. We can outplay anyone but lack the cojones to dig in and play for something. That’s not about the quality of the team that’s about mentality. It needs fixing and I’m sure Gerrard knows who fits into that and who doesn’t.

That’s probably the most accurate summary of us I’ve seen. That could have been said for the last two seasons under two different managers now. Which maybe makes me wonder about the mentality of our players and not coaches.

Agree with both of you: mostly obviously demonstrated in the 2 Wolves games this season. We have to find a way of becoming ruthless and clinical throughout the team.

[ez]

To summarise, we’re still an easy pushover and soft as shite when the chips are down. We can outplay anyone but lack the cojones to dig in and play for something. That’s not about the quality of the team that’s about mentality. It needs fixing and I’m sure Gerrard knows who fits into that and who doesn’t.

That’s probably the most accurate summary of us I’ve seen. That could have been said for the last two seasons under two different managers now. Which maybe makes me wonder about the mentality of our players and not coaches.

For me there's a difference between last season and this. Last season when we had an outside chance of Europe there was an urgency about the players and a belief they could do it. This season there's no such belief or urgency.

[Ian.]

I don’t know, there was whiff of Europe five games ago?

I just remember our flying start to last season then free fall from January onwards.

[paul_e]

Well thanks for marking my paper, I find that a bit rude but you obviously have some issues.
You might need to consider that yours is not the only valid opinion on here and you are not the final arbiter.

Or you could read it that I was sharing my opinion that the stuff in the middle wasn't particularly important. Crossing it out was just easier and I didn't expect anyone to get upset over it, particulalry given how often I've seen, on this forum, lines snipped from a quote or something altered with a 'fixed that for you' comment.

[algy]

I think Grealish leaving in the summer has really knocked us about.  If you look at last season, in the first half of the season we looked like we had an outside chance of European football, and were certainly a top-half side.  Without Grealish, we looked very much like a bottom half - probably bottom quarter - side.  We'd built an entire system around getting the most out of his talents, which was made redundant once he left (or was injured). I'd also postulate that he won't ever have that again, and so is unlikely to ever be quite as good as he was for us.

With that in mind, I think we've slightly progressed this season despite apparently taking a step back, since you'd say that despite looking a bit rubbish at times, we don't look under particular serious threat from relegation.

I had hoped for more under both Smith & Gerrard - this season feels a little deflating.  Still think, though, that win today could catalyse us a bit.  I don't think we're that far behind Wolves or West Ham, think it's a gap that could easily be closed with a good bit of business this summer.

[paul_e]

I think Grealish leaving in the summer has really knocked us about.  If you look at last season, in the first half of the season we looked like we had an outside chance of European football, and were certainly a top-half side.  Without Grealish, we looked very much like a bottom half - probably bottom quarter - side.  We'd built an entire system around getting the most out of his talents, which was made redundant once he left (or was injured). I'd also postulate that he won't ever have that again, and so is unlikely to ever be quite as good as he was for us.

With that in mind, I think we've slightly progressed this season despite apparently taking a step back, since you'd say that despite looking a bit rubbish at times, we don't look under particular serious threat from relegation.

I had hoped for more under both Smith & Gerrard - this season feels a little deflating.  Still think, though, that win today could catalyse us a bit.  I don't think we're that far behind Wolves or West Ham, think it's a gap that could easily be closed with a good bit of business this summer.

Exactly, our summer preperation was a fucking mess, mostly because of Grealish. For me the difference between us under Gerrard compared to Smith is that at the start of the season we looked like a team with a massive hole in it where he should've been, noe we look like a team that has a plan for what we want to do but it just isn't clicking as it should. I honestly think 2-3 players added to this squad would be enough to get us battling for Europe, so long as 1 of them stops us from being so soft defending counter-attacks.