Trains, planes and automobiles

[ChicagoLion]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

[LeeB]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

It's pissed off my wife's friend from school, who after moving from Smith's Wood to an ex-council house next to the M42 in Water Orton thought she was Hyacinth Bucket and now above those of us from lowly Castle Bromwich, and now she's going to be living in the middle of the Warwickshire equivalent of the Spaghetti Junction. 

[chrisw1]

Sadly, driving is faster, cheaper, more convenient and safer.

It's fundamentally none of things.

In an ideal world it isn't.  But in terms of getting back from the Villa which of these things aren't true?
It's certainly faster and more convenient.  It's cheaper assuming you already own and tax a car.  Safer is a moot point, but I'm not sure the people crammed onto the steep stairwells and platform felt entirely secure.

[London Villan]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

Not having to sit on the floor of trains coming out of Euston and Marylebone because they are so busy you can't get a seat.

[Martin Carruthers]

I haven't been since Covid (although am going on Wednesday), does the special from Witton not still run? I usually managed to make that if I got a move on at the end.

[Hillbilly]

Give a better option then?

Investment in public transport and cycling infrastructure. Usual rule applies - if Mrs Thatcher was against it, it must be the right thing to do.

[ChicagoLion]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

Not having to sit on the floor of trains coming out of Euston and Marylebone because they are so busy you can't get a seat.

there were lots of quicker, cheaper and environmentally  less catastrophic ways of solving that problem.

[London Villan]

Give a better option then?

Investment in public transport and cycling infrastructure. Usual rule applies - if Mrs Thatcher was against it, it must be the right thing to do.

That's not going to fix the problems this season or the next though is it. Putting on a fleet of shuttle buses might help in the very short term.

[London Villan]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

Not having to sit on the floor of trains coming out of Euston and Marylebone because they are so busy you can't get a seat.

there were lots of quicker, cheaper and environmentally  less catastrophic ways of solving that problem.

There are other options - but you can't add more trains because there isn't the capacity, you can't add more carriages with extending dozens of stations and you can't increase the tracks without causing massive disruption to existing services and almost as much impact environmentally.

It's also created 000s of jobs and increased investment into Birmingham.

[Hillbilly]

Sadly, driving is faster, cheaper, more convenient and safer.

It's fundamentally none of things.

In an ideal world it isn't.  But in terms of getting back from the Villa which of these things aren't true?
It's certainly faster and more convenient.  It's cheaper assuming you already own and tax a car.  Safer is a moot point, but I'm not sure the people crammed onto the steep stairwells and platform felt entirely secure.

In the real world it isn’t because you have externalised the cost. From memory, every quid you spend motoring costs society 9. And have you ever sat in a traffic jam, spent thousands of pounds on buying a car, spent ages looking for a parking space, know anyone who was seriously injured or killed in an RTA? Not to mention climate impacts. Cars are insanity on the whole.

[ChicagoLion]

To be fair it's one of the massive benefits, freeing up loads of paths for more local trains. Just going to be 10 years before we see those benefits - which isn't great for next Wednesday's game or Boxing Day.

what are the others?

Not having to sit on the floor of trains coming out of Euston and Marylebone because they are so busy you can't get a seat.

there were lots of quicker, cheaper and environmentally  less catastrophic ways of solving that problem.

There are other options - but you can't add more trains because there isn't the capacity, you can't add more carriages with extending dozens of stations and you can't increase the tracks without causing massive disruption to existing services and almost as much impact environmentally.

It's also created 000s of jobs and increased investment into Birmingham.

there is not one independent study that backs up your argument.
I will leave it there because you are obviously an HS2 fundamentalist.

[London Villan]

Not really a fundamentalist - just from a personal viewpoint I hate sitting on the floor on trains out of London and I can see how many jobs it's bringing into Brum. But yep leave it there.

[AV82EC]

That is the first tangible benefit from HS2 I have seen.

It’s the main benefit CL, speed is a nice bonus but the massive capacity released is the major benefit. Getting fast trains off current lines means more local regional and freight services on the existing network.  And the environmental benefit of course, sunk construction carbon payback on latest estimates not those in the original BusCase put at 20 years and the modal shift from car to train and freight from road to rail somewhere between 1-10% meaning reductions in GHG.

Unfortunately by cancelling HS2E the government has totally fucked the whole business case and absolutely shafted the East Mids, York’s and the NE who needed that capacity boost that the West Mids and to a degree the North West will get.

Anyway back on topic, I’m with the people who walk back up to Walsall Road to get the bus, I caught my 1757 train back to Macclesfield in plenty of time after the game on Saturday. If you’re lucky as you walk back up that way there is the odd black cab that appears as well if you fancy a £10 fare back to New St.

[chrisw1]

Sadly, driving is faster, cheaper, more convenient and safer.

It's fundamentally none of things.

In an ideal world it isn't.  But in terms of getting back from the Villa which of these things aren't true?
It's certainly faster and more convenient.  It's cheaper assuming you already own and tax a car.  Safer is a moot point, but I'm not sure the people crammed onto the steep stairwells and platform felt entirely secure.

In the real world it isn’t because you have externalised the cost. From memory, every quid you spend motoring costs society 9. And have you ever sat in a traffic jam, spent thousands of pounds on buying a car, spent ages looking for a parking space, know anyone who was seriously injured or killed in an RTA? Not to mention climate impacts. Cars are insanity on the whole.

Whatever your wider view, the original posts remains correct.  In the context of travelling to Villa, driving is faster, cheaper and more convenient.  Ask someone who was in a queue for 2 hours verses someone who was home in half an hour who had the faster and more convenient journey. The petrol was probably cheaper than the train fare and as I said safety is a moot point in respect of the journey in question.

I'm not saying it's right or how it should be.  I'm just agreeing with London Villan it is how it is.

[AlexAlexCropley]

There seems to be some people making the trek to Gravelly Hill station to beat the queues.Anyone do this?