FFP

[LeeB]

May as well chat about the impact of a alien invasion wiping out the executive class and it's subsequent on demand for our corporate packages for all the likelihood of it becoming a reality.

So you think them building a stadium on land they appear to have bought for building a stadium is as unlikely as an alien invasion?

We're talking about Birmingham City right?

Yes.

I don't know the ratio but for every new proposed stadium the number that actually get built is miniscule (sure I read a piece about it not so long back).

They haven't got any plans or designs or approvals as far as I'm aware, they've just bought a site, like Herbert used to do from time to time.

[PeterWithe]

My gut feeling is that they are waiting on the end of season, focus on that and what's happening on the pitch because, let's face it that's the priority.

Totally agree with this - how we finish this season dictates our future more than ever.
I personally agree with Heck that to reduce our capacity next season for a couple of years if / when we have Champs league football would be a disaster.

As for a new stadium - i have known VP all my life and would be gutted to leave but if we are honest the local area is such a shit hole that i cannot see how that can not only be improved upon but also maintained.

I see there is a huge amount of land on the other side of the M6 by the Fort (i think it was a railway shunting ground previously and not aware of any plans for it now that it is levelled) where a state of the art stadium could be built. Not sure where we could move our games to for 2 years + (without the same issue of losing capacity that a VP build would cause)

That's the old LDV site and current unused HS2 site. Not all of it is available but what is would still be enough for a huge complex. The difficulty is that it's hemmed in by rail, motorway and canal on 2 sides so finding an effective transport system to get people in and out quickly would be tough and potentially would push a lot of traffic onto Bromford Lane and Ward End Lane, both of which are already pretty shit. As I said earlier though, a good ground right there would look absolutely fucking amazing from the M6 (and HS2), I'm think the same kinda views you get of  the Johan Cryuff Arena from the train through Amsterdam. We wouldn't be in Aston anymore though.

I may be wrong but when I was looking at the HS2 plans, most of that land appeared to be earmarked for railway sidings. I did wonder if the land where the concrete factory is might become available after HS2 is completed. I also wondered about the StarCity site, its been losing money for years.

[The Edge]

My gut feeling is that they are waiting on the end of season, focus on that and what's happening on the pitch because, let's face it that's the priority.

Totally agree with this - how we finish this season dictates our future more than ever.
I personally agree with Heck that to reduce our capacity next season for a couple of years if / when we have Champs league football would be a disaster.

As for a new stadium - i have known VP all my life and would be gutted to leave but if we are honest the local area is such a shit hole that i cannot see how that can not only be improved upon but also maintained.

I see there is a huge amount of land on the other side of the M6 by the Fort (i think it was a railway shunting ground previously and not aware of any plans for it now that it is levelled) where a state of the art stadium could be built. Not sure where we could move our games to for 2 years + (without the same issue of losing capacity that a VP build would cause)

That's the old LDV site and current unused HS2 site. Not all of it is available but what is would still be enough for a huge complex. The difficulty is that it's hemmed in by rail, motorway and canal on 2 sides so finding an effective transport system to get people in and out quickly would be tough and potentially would push a lot of traffic onto Bromford Lane and Ward End Lane, both of which are already pretty shit. As I said earlier though, a good ground right there would look absolutely fucking amazing from the M6 (and HS2), I'm think the same kinda views you get of  the Johan Cryuff Arena from the train through Amsterdam. We wouldn't be in Aston anymore though.

I may be wrong but when I was looking at the HS2 plans, most of that land appeared to be earmarked for railway sidings. I did wonder if the land where the concrete factory is might become available after HS2 is completed. I also wondered about the StarCity site, its been losing money for years.

The old LDV site is completely taken up by HS2 development and a massive state of the art Tarmac producing factory.

[Demitri_C]

I couldn't care less what Blues do or don't do. It's going to take years to develop that site, and next year they may well be playing in the 3rd division. I just want us to be the very best we can be, and to be that a 42,000 capacity stadium isn't going to cut it. I'd prefer a brand new stadium, but failing that a major redevelopment of Villa Park. The worst option would be to just do nothing. Until we hear anything to the contrary, that appears to be what we're doing.

This

[London Villan]

HS2 have released a massive chunk of land at washwood heath.

[The Edge]

HS2 have released a massive chunk of land at washwood heath.

Where? When you drive down Heartlands bypass you can see right across the old LDV site and it's packed with cranes and heavy equipment. There doesn't look to be any spare land.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's pretty simple really ADS.  You have talked at length about the need for a new stadium and the commercial opportunities that brings.  IF Blues get ahead and develop that City Centre arena, then it may become harder for us to do so and it will certainly be harder for us to secure the associated commercial opportunities you might have expected to come with it.  So it's not about being rattled by Blues the football team, it's about saying that them securing an opportunity like this could ultimately be to our detriment.

I don't get that for a nanosecond.

We were never, ever going to be buying land and building a stadium in that part of Birmingham, because

1. That's their 'part' of town
2. It's still a shit hole, just a different shit hole.
3. It'd be way too near their current ground, and nobody, after the pandemic experience, wants to go back to wearing masks to prevent catching a horrific disease by being exposed to the air around there.

I stand by my thought we will move somewhere different, but as ever Small Heath and what they do have zero relevance to what we go for.

[pauliewalnuts]

My gut feeling is that they are waiting on the end of season, focus on that and what's happening on the pitch because, let's face it that's the priority.

Totally agree with this - how we finish this season dictates our future more than ever.
I personally agree with Heck that to reduce our capacity next season for a couple of years if / when we have Champs league football would be a disaster.

As for a new stadium - i have known VP all my life and would be gutted to leave but if we are honest the local area is such a shit hole that i cannot see how that can not only be improved upon but also maintained.

I see there is a huge amount of land on the other side of the M6 by the Fort (i think it was a railway shunting ground previously and not aware of any plans for it now that it is levelled) where a state of the art stadium could be built. Not sure where we could move our games to for 2 years + (without the same issue of losing capacity that a VP build would cause)

That's the old LDV site and current unused HS2 site. Not all of it is available but what is would still be enough for a huge complex. The difficulty is that it's hemmed in by rail, motorway and canal on 2 sides so finding an effective transport system to get people in and out quickly would be tough and potentially would push a lot of traffic onto Bromford Lane and Ward End Lane, both of which are already pretty shit. As I said earlier though, a good ground right there would look absolutely fucking amazing from the M6 (and HS2), I'm think the same kinda views you get of  the Johan Cryuff Arena from the train through Amsterdam. We wouldn't be in Aston anymore though.

Again, though, swapping a run down unappealing area with a transport problem for another one with the same problem, only a teeny bit more land at best.

I don't see the point in swapping one set of problems for a similar set elsewhere, and if we're leaving Aston, it needs to be in the city centre, perhaps north side of as a nod to Aston, but it needs to be somehting which is fundamentally miles better than Villa Park, to justify the emotional turmoil in moving.

[London Villan]

The city centre side of the ring road, off Summer Lane. Loads of cpo’s would be needed though.

[Beard82]

One thing I think is important is the club do whats right for the club.  I cant see FFP being in place in 5 years - so it would be rubbish to do something thats good for FFP when in 50 years no one will remember it - but will be living with the decisions that were driven by it.

I would love us to stay where we are for as long as it was an option.  North Stand redevelopment looked right to me - and I get the idea of delaying that.  If we can establish ourselves as European regulars.

[chrisw1]

It's pretty simple really ADS.  You have talked at length about the need for a new stadium and the commercial opportunities that brings.  IF Blues get ahead and develop that City Centre arena, then it may become harder for us to do so and it will certainly be harder for us to secure the associated commercial opportunities you might have expected to come with it.  So it's not about being rattled by Blues the football team, it's about saying that them securing an opportunity like this could ultimately be to our detriment.

I don't get that for a nanosecond.

We were never, ever going to be buying land and building a stadium in that part of Birmingham, because

1. That's their 'part' of town
2. It's still a shit hole, just a different shit hole.
3. It'd be way too near their current ground, and nobody, after the pandemic experience, wants to go back to wearing masks to prevent catching a horrific disease by being exposed to the air around there.

I stand by my thought we will move somewhere different, but as ever Small Heath and what they do have zero relevance to what we go for.

The point isn't that we should have got that site.  The point is, if indeed they do go ahead and develop it then I imagine it will be harder for us in the future to secure funding, partnerships etc with the BCC for a second City Centre stadium because the financial upsides aren't really as significant for them as there will already be a new stadium facility in the City.

I may be entirely wrong, but my guess is that if there is hypothetically a significant stadium complex progressing in the City, there will just be far less appetite to work on a second - whether that's transport infrastructure, CPO's, planning etc.  Certainly, with two stadiums, there's less opportunity for gigs, internationals and other alternative uses (I appreciate this will be impacted by the respective sizes but all things being equal)

So it's not bedwetting, it's just chatting about how IF they did go ahead and build a significant stadium before us, it could be to our detriment.

[Villan82]

Precisely chrisw1.

The USP of a new stadium would have to be that it does all the bells and whistles on a scale we can't at Villa Park and that it become an amenity for the wider city.

If they are on that already then it immediately puts a question mark over the point of us doing the same.

Now ultimately I hope we stay at Villa Park and the delay in redevelopment is somehow explained in summer as some seem to be hinting. 

But the point stands. If we have postponed redevelopment for what seems like the third or fourth time, because we were seriously considering a new multi-purpose stadium, then we do so with less of a unique selling point than we would have had if we had gone with this plan on day one three years ago.

[Villan82]

One thing I think is important is the club do whats right for the club.  I cant see FFP being in place in 5 years - so it would be rubbish to do something thats good for FFP when in 50 years no one will remember it - but will be living with the decisions that were driven by it.

I would love us to stay where we are for as long as it was an option.  North Stand redevelopment looked right to me - and I get the idea of delaying that.  If we can establish ourselves as European regulars.

I agree with every word except the bit in bold. It should have been done yesterday as far as I am concerned. We have seen loads of clubs, including our own, with the cranes up and new stands being built during eras where things were going well on the pitch.

What is the point in waiting for us to fall away again? Nothing symbolises a club's forward momentum like a big monster of a new stand rising up out of the ground.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's pretty simple really ADS.  You have talked at length about the need for a new stadium and the commercial opportunities that brings.  IF Blues get ahead and develop that City Centre arena, then it may become harder for us to do so and it will certainly be harder for us to secure the associated commercial opportunities you might have expected to come with it.  So it's not about being rattled by Blues the football team, it's about saying that them securing an opportunity like this could ultimately be to our detriment.

I don't get that for a nanosecond.

We were never, ever going to be buying land and building a stadium in that part of Birmingham, because

1. That's their 'part' of town
2. It's still a shit hole, just a different shit hole.
3. It'd be way too near their current ground, and nobody, after the pandemic experience, wants to go back to wearing masks to prevent catching a horrific disease by being exposed to the air around there.

I stand by my thought we will move somewhere different, but as ever Small Heath and what they do have zero relevance to what we go for.

The point isn't that we should have got that site.  The point is, if indeed they do go ahead and develop it then I imagine it will be harder for us in the future to secure funding, partnerships etc with the BCC for a second City Centre stadium because the financial upsides aren't really as significant for them as there will already be a new stadium facility in the City.

I may be entirely wrong, but my guess is that if there is hypothetically a significant stadium complex progressing in the City, there will just be far less appetite to work on a second - whether that's transport infrastructure, CPO's, planning etc.  Certainly, with two stadiums, there's less opportunity for gigs, internationals and other alternative uses (I appreciate this will be impacted by the respective sizes but all things being equal)

So it's not bedwetting, it's just chatting about how IF they did go ahead and build a significant stadium before us, it could be to our detriment.

I didn't say it was bedwetting.

However, the BCC funding thing is a total red herring - they're not going to have the money to fund orchestras, museums and libraries pretty soon, let alone a stadium.

They'll have zero input for Small Heath or for us.

[itmustbe_it is!]

If we move from VP, I'd probably be done. Not hyperbole or drama, just so much of going to football is about doing what I've always done, since the late 70s, initially with my dad, then with my mates, now with my own family. It's much more important to me than how good the food is or how long I have to queue for a beer.

I get how it's probably the 'sensible" thing, it must be because almost everyone else has done it who plays regularly at the level we aspire to, I just hate the idea, completely and utterly. For the same reason there are so many nostalgia posts on here about the old Holte end etc. It's about tradition and memories . I get that that butters no parsnips as they used to say, but that's how I feel.