I very much doubt an intent to either kill Atkinson or cause him serious injury, rather debilitate him to the point of incapacity. You could of course argue that he'd have to cause injury in order to incapacitate but that's probably the line between murder and manslaughter.
Quote from: Drummond on June 23, 2021, 11:34:45 PMI very much doubt an intent to either kill Atkinson or cause him serious injury, rather debilitate him to the point of incapacity. You could of course argue that he'd have to cause injury in order to incapacitate but that's probably the line between murder and manslaughter. ‘Intent’ is always difficult to prove because you can never know what someone thought, but when you kick someone in the head you are either intending to cause serious harm or you have ‘lost it’.Is ‘losing it’ a defence against intent? I’m not sure. I’m not sure it should be or can be - otherwise every pissed up shithead would walk for anything they did. I’m not saying that the police were pissed up, I’m saying that I’m trying to picture this scenario at closing time at the pub with an ordinary bloke and his girlfriend trying to claim they didn’t mean to cause serious injury, when they have knocked someone down and kicked him so hard that their lace prints are in his head.
Quote from: amfy on June 24, 2021, 09:27:58 AMQuote from: Drummond on June 23, 2021, 11:34:45 PMI very much doubt an intent to either kill Atkinson or cause him serious injury, rather debilitate him to the point of incapacity. You could of course argue that he'd have to cause injury in order to incapacitate but that's probably the line between murder and manslaughter. ‘Intent’ is always difficult to prove because you can never know what someone thought, but when you kick someone in the head you are either intending to cause serious harm or you have ‘lost it’.Is ‘losing it’ a defence against intent? I’m not sure. I’m not sure it should be or can be - otherwise every pissed up shithead would walk for anything they did. I’m not saying that the police were pissed up, I’m saying that I’m trying to picture this scenario at closing time at the pub with an ordinary bloke and his girlfriend trying to claim they didn’t mean to cause serious injury, when they have knocked someone down and kicked him so hard that their lace prints are in his head.Wasn't his defence that he was frightened that Dalian would attack him/them? After he had banged on his Dad's door threatening to do the same? Not defending the horrific actions in any way but I think it's a difficult, sad case to extract justice from.
As a complete layman when it comes to the law, it seems to me that the difference between convicting for murder or manslaughter usually boils down to intent before the incident happened. Did the policeman go to the address with the intention of killing Dalian? No, he was responding to a call out as part of his job. Did things then get seriously out of hand while he was there, and did he go too far in his response, clearly yes. Obviously there are degrees, if he'd arrived, pulled out a gun and shot somebody, then that would be clear murder, but I think all things considered here, manslaughter is probably the right decision.