Summer Transfer Thread and Gustavo Cisneros Type Rumours.

[TonyD]

I think a lot of his starting formations and then subsequent subs (or lack of them) and general game management means I see little to suggest that he has the skills to make us succeed.

[Ads]

We've spent longer in the Premier League, so obviously we've spent more.

Leeds spent £96.1m last season, net, compared to the momey they spent in their summer prior to promotion.

They didn't have a squad to replace either. They've spent money and unsurprisingly benefited from it. What a shocking conclusion.

[paul_e]

I was intrigued by a comment that Smith had spent the 'thick end of half a billion' since his arrival in October 2018. I couldn't think how that estimate was arrived at so took a look at www.transfermarkt.co.uk.
I looked at Villa's most expensive 50 players and then sorted them by year of purchase to see how much has been spent on Dean's watch: I would include a picture here to show the data but cannot seem to do it!.
This analysis does not include players bought for under £6.00mm, but, Smith seems to have spent £322mm on 19 players; roughly £17mm per player. The average Premier League player is currently valued at £15.8mm (purchase value) by the same source.

I don't think the Smith years are marked by excessive spend or profligacy, based on this. Obviously, we can question the quality of some of the purchases but not the overall spend. Nor has he spent a big amount given that he was effectively rebuilding a depleted squad.

322 million is still an awful lot. Leeds didn’t spend much last year and managed to finish in the top half. As my Leeds mate always tells me, they’ve got Liam League 1 Cooper playing in defence. So it’s fair to say Smith had had better resources available than that. Yet we spend a fortune and people talk as though it would be a great achievement if Smith finished in the top half. Bielsa is just an example of what a really good manager can do without spending a fortune. Imagine if you combined having a really good manager and spending money

Leeds have spent (Net) about £140m since they were promoted so about £70m per season.
In 1 more season we have a net spend of about £200m so slightly under £70m a season.

On that basis most of your post is wrong.

I’m not really sure how you’ve worked the figures there. At the end of last summers window, we’d spent roughly 200 million and Leeds spent 98 million last summer. So take out the window just gone, by my calculations Leeds last season had spent about half of what we had since promotion

So you're saying that Leeds, in 1 season, have spent half what we did in 2. How does that show Bielsa did brilliantly with a limited budget and Smith has just has better resources?

Isn’t the answer obvious? Smith should therefore have double the resources Leeds do shouldn’t he, if he’s had the chance to spend 2 x 100 million. You might disagree, but it doesn’t make my post wrong. There are times under Smith where we regularly look like we haven’t been coached. A good manager would make a massive difference

No, because there's more to it than that. You claimed Bielsa was doing it on a budget and Smith was, effectively, being bankrolled and that just isn't true but because you don't like Smith (and regularly appear on the forum when there's a chance to moan about him before disappearing when things are going well) you're shifting the goalposts to slag him off.

[mr underhill]

Dean's had very limited success without Grealish in whatever side he's put out. We're still two or three players short of a balanced first team squad without our erstwhile worldie and with all players fit. It's not going to end well.

[RamboandBruno]

I think a lot of his starting formations and then subsequent subs (or lack of them) and general game management means I see little to suggest that he has the skills to make us succeed.

October 2018 mid table in championship-Promotion, staying up when most go down, a cup final, mid table in premier by May 2021. We have been succeeding and he’s been the manager whilst been doing it.

[TonyD]

I think a lot of his starting formations and then subsequent subs (or lack of them) and general game management means I see little to suggest that he has the skills to make us succeed.

October 2018 mid table in championship-Promotion, staying up when most go down, a cup final, mid table in premier by May 2021. We have been succeeding and he’s been the manager whilst been doing it.

Maybe I should have said improve further.   Without Jack.  We shall see.

[chrisw1]

Funny though, a lot of other promoted teams come up without a full team of premier league ready players don't they?  They don't all have the option to release their Huttons, Whelans and Adomahs as they haven't got £140m to spend.  Most of them don't have the benefit of one of the best players in the league either.

And most go straight back down.

That's kind of the point I'm making.  People seem to try to wash over the fact that we spent £140 because we had a thin squad.  Well, yes we did - but that was partly be design and our own choices.  Other clubs would have had to make do with a few Adomahs and Huttons rather than releasing them.  I know we had a lot of work to do and I've used that defence myself many times - but the reality is we had the luxury of spending £140m and stayed up by the skin of our teeth.

I'm a Smith in man, but his achievments in the PL should be seen against the backdrop of a £250m spend in his first two seasons.

[Drummond]

Dean's had very limited success without Grealish in whatever side he's put out. We're still two or three players short of a balanced first team squad without our erstwhile worldie and with all players fit. It's not going to end well.

Why? is Armageddon coming?

[Smithy]

Funny though, a lot of other promoted teams come up without a full team of premier league ready players don't they?  They don't all have the option to release their Huttons, Whelans and Adomahs as they haven't got £140m to spend.  Most of them don't have the benefit of one of the best players in the league either.

And most go straight back down.

That's kind of the point I'm making.  People seem to try to wash over the fact that we spent £140 because we had a thin squad.  Well, yes we did - but that was partly be design and our own choices.  Other clubs would have had to make do with a few Adomahs and Huttons rather than releasing them.  I know we had a lot of work to do and I've used that defence myself many times - but the reality is we had the luxury of spending £140m and stayed up by the skin of our teeth.

I'm a Smith in man, but his achievments in the PL should be seen against the backdrop of a £250m spend in his first two seasons.

We finished 18 points behind Norwich in the Championship, and the following season we finished 14 points ahead of them in the Premier League.  THAT is what £140m spend in your first season back buys you. The next £100m got us up league another 6 places and out of the relegation fight.   

Now, this is where it starts getting REALLY difficult, because we are into the law of diminishing returns as far as "throwing money at it" is concerned - and another £100m definitely doesn't get us another 6 places - but I'm intrigued to see how we do considering it's a big restructure of the teams forward line, for basically no outlay.

[Ads]

Dean's had very limited success without Grealish in whatever side he's put out. We're still two or three players short of a balanced first team squad without our erstwhile worldie and with all players fit. It's not going to end well.

Why? is Armageddon coming?

The Urkai are always running amok in the Shire.

[john e]

Funny though, a lot of other promoted teams come up without a full team of premier league ready players don't they?  They don't all have the option to release their Huttons, Whelans and Adomahs as they haven't got £140m to spend.  Most of them don't have the benefit of one of the best players in the league either.

And most go straight back down.

That's kind of the point I'm making.  People seem to try to wash over the fact that we spent £140 because we had a thin squad.  Well, yes we did - but that was partly be design and our own choices.  Other clubs would have had to make do with a few Adomahs and Huttons rather than releasing them.  I know we had a lot of work to do and I've used that defence myself many times - but the reality is we had the luxury of spending £140m and stayed up by the skin of our teeth.

I'm a Smith in man, but his achievments in the PL should be seen against the backdrop of a £250m spend in his first two seasons.

We finished 18 points behind Norwich in the Championship, and the following season we finished 14 points ahead of them in the Premier League.  THAT is what £140m spend in your first season back buys you. The next £100m got us up league another 6 places and out of the relegation fight.   

Now, this is where it starts getting REALLY difficult, because we are into the law of diminishing returns as far as "throwing money at it" is concerned - and another £100m definitely doesn't get us another 6 places - but I'm intrigued to see how we do considering it's a big restructure of the teams forward line, for basically no outlay.

It’s not an exact science though I just don’t think it works like that All the time
I accept that the more money spent the better chance you have but sometimes it’s just as important having good people doing good things and stuff coming together

[Lastfootstamper]

Unlike almost every other side ever that's managed it before or since, we weren't good enough to get promoted. In three years we'd assembled a rag tag bunch of loanees, has-beens and hopefuls, that managed in entirety less than a week in the promotion places. It took a club record winning run with one of the best players on the planet to propel us to the giddy heights of fifth, whereupon we beat some rubbish on penalties in one semi while Leeds, having somehow managed to dodge automatic promotion again, proceeded to trip over their own feet in the other, thus presenting us with a one off game we could actually win.

Other than Grealish, nobody was PL ready. We were, to my mind, and with hindsight, a f***ing shambles in waiting.

[dave.woodhall]

I can't believe anyone is seriously suggesting that we weren't bad off when we got promoted because we had Hutton, Jedinak, Whelan, Adomah, Green, Chester & Elphick to call on.

[LeeB]

I can't believe anyone is seriously suggesting that we weren't bad off when we got promoted because we had Hutton, Jedinak, Whelan, Adomah, Green, Chester & Elphick to call on.

Yes, it's been galling to see how well all of their careers have progressed since.

[paul_e]

Unlike almost every other side ever that's managed it before or since, we weren't good enough to get promoted. In three years we'd assembled a rag tag bunch of loanees, has-beens and hopefuls, that managed in entirety less than a week in the promotion places. It took a club record winning run with one of the best players on the planet to propel us to the giddy heights of fifth, whereupon we beat some rubbish on penalties in one semi while Leeds, having somehow managed to dodge automatic promotion again, proceeded to trip over their own feet in the other, thus presenting us with a one off game we could actually win.

Other than Grealish, nobody was PL ready. We were, to my mind, and with hindsight, a f***ing shambles in waiting.

More importantly even the owners and CEO didn't expect us to get promoted from that point. They were pretty clear that we were promoted ahead of schedule and a consequence of that will be that we didn't have a season of filling the squad out with younger players who could get us promoted and then step up and be squad players in the top flight (McGinn, AEG and Guilbert show the sort of players I think we'd have been building around).

To go back to the Leeds comparison they had the advantage of that extra season embedding a style into the squad and having a championship core that could step up which meant their ~£100m was spent solely on add quality to the squad, we need to add quantity as well because the players we released just weren't worth giving new deals to to save a few pennies. If we couldn't afford to let them go and buy replacements we'd have gone down.