Summer Transfer Thread and Gustavo Cisneros Type Rumours.

[Vegas]

The net spend argument is completely clouded by the record transfer fee that came in.

When you look at the players in, and out, we're stronger.

Out
Ratboy
Wesley
Hourihane
Guilbert
Engels
Heaton

In
Ings
Buendia
Bailey
Young
Tuanzebe

We're stronger up front, we're stronger in defence, and we're down Hourihane in midfield. (Sanson came in early so could be argued to be a replacement, though given Hourihane was on loan too it's not really much different)

Goalkeeper is weaker though we've brought Sinisalo back from a solid season of first team football in Scotland.

I'd say the only area we've not upgraded (or downgraded) is central midfield, yet we have McGinn and Luiz who are both good players. We have Nakamba, Sanson, as seniors and Ramsey, Chukwuemeka as younger players coming through.

I suspect the sort of player we want we haven't been able to get yet, but it's not the disaster some are making out.

The other thing I'd like to say is that we have a much better squad than we have had for a long time. We are improving and frankly need to again this year. I think we can but we've had a rough few weeks with Covid-19 and injuries which has distorted things.

Re the coach situation, we've brought in MacPhee and another is serving notice elsewhere. We're freshening things up.

Very sensible and balanced summary. I basically agree. The issue for me is that it could quite conceivably have been amazing, with one blockbuster CM signing (a Bissouma-type player). As it is, it’s kind of fine, steady improvement.

[Mister E]

The net spend argument is completely clouded by the record transfer fee that came in.
When you look at the players in, and out, we're stronger.
Out
Ratboy
Wesley
Hourihane
Guilbert
Engels
Heaton

In
Ings
Buendia
Bailey
Young
Tuanzebe

We're stronger up front, we're stronger in defence, and we're down Hourihane in midfield. (Sanson came in early so could be argued to be a replacement, though given Hourihane was on loan too it's not really much different)

Goalkeeper is weaker though we've brought Sinisalo back from a solid season of first team football in Scotland.
I'd say the only area we've not upgraded (or downgraded) is central midfield, yet we have McGinn and Luiz who are both good players. We have Nakamba, Sanson, as seniors and Ramsey, Chukwuemeka as younger players coming through.
I suspect the sort of player we want we haven't been able to get yet, but it's not the disaster some are making out.
The other thing I'd like to say is that we have a much better squad than we have had for a long time. We are improving and frankly need to again this year. I think we can but we've had a rough few weeks with Covid-19 and injuries which has distorted things.
Re the coach situation, we've brought in MacPhee and another is serving notice elsewhere. We're freshening things up.

Totally with you on this, Drummond, with the addition of a CMF dynamo.

[oldhill_avfc]

The net spend argument is completely clouded by the record transfer fee that came in.

When you look at the players in, and out, we're stronger.

Out
Ratboy
Wesley
Hourihane
Guilbert
Engels
Heaton

In
Ings
Buendia
Bailey
Young
Tuanzebe

We're stronger up front, we're stronger in defence, and we're down Hourihane in midfield. (Sanson came in early so could be argued to be a replacement, though given Hourihane was on loan too it's not really much different)

Goalkeeper is weaker though we've brought Sinisalo back from a solid season of first team football in Scotland.

I'd say the only area we've not upgraded (or downgraded) is central midfield, yet we have McGinn and Luiz who are both good players. We have Nakamba, Sanson, as seniors and Ramsey, Chukwuemeka as younger players coming through.

I suspect the sort of player we want we haven't been able to get yet, but it's not the disaster some are making out.

The other thing I'd like to say is that we have a much better squad than we have had for a long time. We are improving and frankly need to again this year. I think we can but we've had a rough few weeks with Covid-19 and injuries which has distorted things.

Re the coach situation, we've brought in MacPhee and another is serving notice elsewhere. We're freshening things up.

Do you genuinely think, during a match, we are stronger going forward now than we were with Grealish, Barkley, Watkins and Traore? I admire the confidence and really hope you are right. I think we are all trying to pretend like the best player in a generation that we have had is replaceable, and I have seen nothing of Villa under Smith to think that he is. I don't argue we have not bought in good players, but the logic and the team shape with them I am struggling with. We will find out in time of course, and I really hope you are spot on.

This is the big question.

It's alright suggesting we've replaced Grealish with 3 players, but unfortunately you cant play 13 vs 11.

I think the attack is OK, but where we'll miss Grealish is in augmenting the midfield and left side of the defence, which both protected Targett and allowed him to get further up the field. 

As a result we'll struggle to get sustained periods up the pitch and be able to press the opposition as we did last year - although Watkins being out hasn't helped so far in that regard either. 
Maybe it's Smith intention to play more on the break which we didn't have the pace to do last year, and which might lessen our reliance on an out-and-out defensive CM?

[Demitri_C]

If we don’t bring anyone in today in midfield will it make me nervous betw now and January? absolutely, will it be a disaster, doom & gloom scenario? No way.

Club have invested a lot in Sanson, we need him on the field so we can judge if he is good enough, you don’t spend 14m on a player who was valued much higher before the French tv crisis crashed the market over there and not see him as a likely starter - he needs to be fit and play.

If there is an opportunity to bring in a player who can consistently do the good things Nakamba does in one off games but is also capable of actually passing the odd ball forwards then would hope to get it done- if that player isn’t available or doesn’t want to come to us then we go with what we have.

But even with sanson he isnt the dm we are looking for. He is more of a creative attacking player.

We are so lightweight in the middle of the park its unbelievable. If smith cant see that he is more clueless than we thought

I don’t think he’s clueless at all so that’s a ‘you’ or ‘I’ not a ‘we’

We are light in there undoubtedly but it has to be right player incoming, someone who demands a shirt every week

Just to correct you all it needs is "one" other person to say he is clueless then it becomes a we. That part of your post was unnecessary. Anyway in subject

Of course it has to be right player, not a panic buy but i find it hard to believe there are not better players out there than nakamba.  If we have aspirations for europe we wont get there if nakamba has to play week in week out if luiz gets injured. Not sure if he has aspirations to play axel there but my preferred option would be a player proven in that position.

JJ, chuk, sanson and mcginn are not ball winning midfielders. We need another one of them in my opinion. A more solid tank like player. We don't have any of those.

No but your tone indicated you thought ‘we’ as in a number of us think Smith is clueless. I don’t think he’s clueless either.

Its not really important  is it?

[richtheholtender]

Just on Smith my opinion was that if the owners have only spent the money that has come in to the club then they haven't sufficiently back him. Having thought about it even more, isn't the a responsibility on his part to manage upwards a little bit here and present to the owners why we need a better central midfield, the benefits of what it will achieve and point out that we haven't actually spent anything this summer (net)? He is either happy with his squad, in which case he is accountable or he isn't in which case should he make himself accountable?

[Demitri_C]

He is either happy with his squad, in which case he is accountable or he isn't in which case should he make himself accountable?

Thats the way i look at it. If its a success its a master stroke by smith. If its a cosmic failure then it is also on smith.

One positive is that we will be in profit for once and not have such heavy losses like last few seasons. The 100m spent is all the grealish money none of the huge tv money we get.

[SoccerHQ]

The net spend argument is completely clouded by the record transfer fee that came in.

When you look at the players in, and out, we're stronger.

Out
Ratboy
Wesley
Hourihane
Guilbert
Engels
Heaton

In
Ings
Buendia
Bailey
Young
Tuanzebe

We're stronger up front, we're stronger in defence, and we're down Hourihane in midfield. (Sanson came in early so could be argued to be a replacement, though given Hourihane was on loan too it's not really much different)

Goalkeeper is weaker though we've brought Sinisalo back from a solid season of first team football in Scotland.

I'd say the only area we've not upgraded (or downgraded) is central midfield, yet we have McGinn and Luiz who are both good players. We have Nakamba, Sanson, as seniors and Ramsey, Chukwuemeka as younger players coming through.

I suspect the sort of player we want we haven't been able to get yet, but it's not the disaster some are making out.

The other thing I'd like to say is that we have a much better squad than we have had for a long time. We are improving and frankly need to again this year. I think we can but we've had a rough few weeks with Covid-19 and injuries which has distorted things.

Re the coach situation, we've brought in MacPhee and another is serving notice elsewhere. We're freshening things up.

Do you genuinely think, during a match, we are stronger going forward now than we were with Grealish, Barkley, Watkins and Traore? I admire the confidence and really hope you are right. I think we are all trying to pretend like the best player in a generation that we have had is replaceable, and I have seen nothing of Villa under Smith to think that he is. I don't argue we have not bought in good players, but the logic and the team shape with them I am struggling with. We will find out in time of course, and I really hope you are spot on.

ozz I think Watkins-Ings-Bailey can be a terrific front 3 for us in a month or two's time. It's not perfect having to move Ollie a bit wider but many clubs who finish above us season in season out do it with CFs so Dean just going to have to suck it up and do what he did at Brentford when he had Watkins and Mauapy as the two CFs.

Hopefully we see that at Chelsea and they can click sooner or later.

Looks like nothing much happening for us today, disappointing really as too many clubs going to expose us centrally.

[ozzjim]

West Ham close to getting another Czech midfielder. Moyes has done a spectacularly good job second time round there.

[Smithy]

Just on Smith my opinion was that if the owners have only spent the money that has come in to the club then they haven't sufficiently back him. Having thought about it even more, isn't the a responsibility on his part to manage upwards a little bit here and present to the owners why we need a better central midfield, the benefits of what it will achieve and point out that we haven't actually spent anything this summer (net)? He is either happy with his squad, in which case he is accountable or he isn't in which case should he make himself accountable?

I think any time anyone points to our summer transfer business, and makes it Smith's responsibility, I don't think they understand how our club runs its transfer business these days.  Is he involved in transfers? Yes, absolutely.  Does he make recommendations on players he'd like - yes, absolutely. Can he veto a transfer, almost certainly. But we have a vast machine now that takes care of that side of things, with all sorts of analytics and variables considered.

We know from the JWP bid that we wanted to buy him, and I suspect we've tried to buy others who were on our list for that position once we'd been rejected, but there comes a point where you're looking at your 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice and wondering if they even improve you all that much at all.

I genuinely believe we've tried to sign at least one top-class midfielder this summer. It hasn't happened, and I don't know why, but I suspect it comes down to the club not feeling they could get good value for money.  We're not in Europe, so there is a limit to who we could realistically sign, and it might be we've decided if the ones we've identified can't be bought, then we'll make do with what we've got.

The alternative I guess would be to keep throwing money around and making it impossible for a selling club to say no, but the owners don't strike me as the sort to do that.  They'll invest, and heavily, but they won't pay more than someone is worth.  I thought it was telling when Purslow said Joe's release clause was at a level they didn't think someone would pay.  That is an indication of where the club's head is at in terms of player value.

I would have loved a top DCM this summer, but if we end up without one, I don't for one moment think it's because the club doesn't think it's needed - just that they couldn't get a deal done that they were comfortable with.  I just hope it doesn't come to haunt us.

[Sexual Ealing]

A good, sensible post, Smithy. Not to mention any names, of course, but I doubt it'll be popular with some of the posters on this thread, lacking as it does histrionics, over-simplification and entitled petulance.

[Brazilian Villain]

A good, sensible post, Smithy. Not to mention any names, of course, but I doubt it'll be popular with some of the posters on this thread, lacking as it does histrionics, over-simplification and entitled petulance.

Agree 100% on both counts.

[Brazilian Villain]

Very disappointing deadline day so far though, no quotes from Mr. Woodhall (yet) on the BBC transfer page.

[Behind Bluenose Lines]

Concerned.

We're definitely still short in central/defensive midfield  Brentford were overrunning us at times on Saturday. We'll be ripped apart by better teams, I fear. Hopefully John McGinn will stay fit for the rest of the season when he comes back, but I don't think that will be enough, much as I love the guy. Not sure about Sanson yet.

I'm hoping (suspecting in vain!) that we'll have a signing at the eleventh hour that will take everyone by surprise, like the Ings one.🤞

[algy]

Just on Smith my opinion was that if the owners have only spent the money that has come in to the club then they haven't sufficiently back him. Having thought about it even more, isn't the a responsibility on his part to manage upwards a little bit here and present to the owners why we need a better central midfield, the benefits of what it will achieve and point out that we haven't actually spent anything this summer (net)? He is either happy with his squad, in which case he is accountable or he isn't in which case should he make himself accountable?

I think any time anyone points to our summer transfer business, and makes it Smith's responsibility, I don't think they understand how our club runs its transfer business these days.  Is he involved in transfers? Yes, absolutely.  Does he make recommendations on players he'd like - yes, absolutely. Can he veto a transfer, almost certainly. But we have a vast machine now that takes care of that side of things, with all sorts of analytics and variables considered.

We know from the JWP bid that we wanted to buy him, and I suspect we've tried to buy others who were on our list for that position once we'd been rejected, but there comes a point where you're looking at your 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice and wondering if they even improve you all that much at all.

I genuinely believe we've tried to sign at least one top-class midfielder this summer. It hasn't happened, and I don't know why, but I suspect it comes down to the club not feeling they could get good value for money.  We're not in Europe, so there is a limit to who we could realistically sign, and it might be we've decided if the ones we've identified can't be bought, then we'll make do with what we've got.

The alternative I guess would be to keep throwing money around and making it impossible for a selling club to say no, but the owners don't strike me as the sort to do that.  They'll invest, and heavily, but they won't pay more than someone is worth.  I thought it was telling when Purslow said Joe's release clause was at a level they didn't think someone would pay.  That is an indication of where the club's head is at in terms of player value.

I would have loved a top DCM this summer, but if we end up without one, I don't for one moment think it's because the club doesn't think it's needed - just that they couldn't get a deal done that they were comfortable with.  I just hope it doesn't come to haunt us.

Agree with this, and also Drummond's post.  I think we'd all want another midfielder, but if there's none available who'd be a significant upgrade on Nakamba, I'm happy with sticking with what we've got.

We'd look weaker whatever summer we lost Joe.  It'd look like a bad summer almost regardless of who we replaced him with.  We'd also probably have a neutral or slightly negative net spend, given it was a record fee he went for and we're broadly looking at players that'll increase in value rather than ones at their peak.

The start of the season seems to have been severely disrupted by injuries and COVID.  We're mainly playing our 'backup' options at the moment, so it's not overly surprising that we're not tearing many sides to shreds.  But we're not utterly awful either, first half against Watford aside.

[richtheholtender]

Just on Smith my opinion was that if the owners have only spent the money that has come in to the club then they haven't sufficiently back him. Having thought about it even more, isn't the a responsibility on his part to manage upwards a little bit here and present to the owners why we need a better central midfield, the benefits of what it will achieve and point out that we haven't actually spent anything this summer (net)? He is either happy with his squad, in which case he is accountable or he isn't in which case should he make himself accountable?

I think any time anyone points to our summer transfer business, and makes it Smith's responsibility, I don't think they understand how our club runs its transfer business these days.  Is he involved in transfers? Yes, absolutely.  Does he make recommendations on players he'd like - yes, absolutely. Can he veto a transfer, almost certainly. But we have a vast machine now that takes care of that side of things, with all sorts of analytics and variables considered.

We know from the JWP bid that we wanted to buy him, and I suspect we've tried to buy others who were on our list for that position once we'd been rejected, but there comes a point where you're looking at your 3rd, 4th or even 5th choice and wondering if they even improve you all that much at all.

I genuinely believe we've tried to sign at least one top-class midfielder this summer. It hasn't happened, and I don't know why, but I suspect it comes down to the club not feeling they could get good value for money.  We're not in Europe, so there is a limit to who we could realistically sign, and it might be we've decided if the ones we've identified can't be bought, then we'll make do with what we've got.

The alternative I guess would be to keep throwing money around and making it impossible for a selling club to say no, but the owners don't strike me as the sort to do that.  They'll invest, and heavily, but they won't pay more than someone is worth.  I thought it was telling when Purslow said Joe's release clause was at a level they didn't think someone would pay.  That is an indication of where the club's head is at in terms of player value.

I would have loved a top DCM this summer, but if we end up without one, I don't for one moment think it's because the club doesn't think it's needed - just that they couldn't get a deal done that they were comfortable with.  I just hope it doesn't come to haunt us.

It might not be his responsibility to find the signings I pretty sure everyone understands that. It is his responsibility to get results on the pitch, which is aided by the players we sign, so if he doesn't feel we have adequate cover in say defensive midfield options, he should make it clear. Does he have it him to ask that question of those above him That? Or is he likely to sit in press conferences and say he's happy with what he has. That is the point I was making, not that Smith should be accountavle entirely for who comes.