Summer Transfer Thread and Gustavo Cisneros Type Rumours.

[not3bad]

Swapping a player who hasn't yet had the chance to fulfill his promise for an established player is Chelsea logic and I'd prefer not to go down that route if possible.

[SoccerHQ]

How would peole feel about Ramsey as a makeweight for JWP?

I know he's one of the kids and looks bright at times, but I don't se him as a 10 and we're pretty stacked in 8's.  I haven't seen him anywhere neary anybody's draft line ups.

Nah too early to sell him unless we do one of those buyback deals for 2-3 years later.

Surprised Ramsey hasn't been considered for a years loan as we have loads of midfielders when everyone is fit and want to add Ward Prowse to the mix. I wonder if he was ever in the mix to go to Norwich in Buendia deal given they signed Billy Gilmour a few weeks later so obviously wanted a technical ball playing CM.

Be interesting how long into the season we go before Carney overtakes Ramsey in the midfield pecking order.

[chrisw1]

Bit soon to be writing Ramsay off.

It's not that I'm really writing him off, it's just that I don't see him contributing much in the next couple of seasons.  If we want totake a teams best player then we may need to make a difficult decision ourselves.

[ozzjim]

Jacob needs a season in the championship for me. I think he times his runs into the box well, and could become a very very useful player.

If we let AEG go, there has to be a left sided attacker coming in.

[Risso]

Swapping a player who hasn't yet had the chance to fulfill his promise for an established player is Chelsea logic and I'd prefer not to go down that route if possible.

Heaven forbid we end up with Chelsea's success!

[ozzjim]

Swapping a player who hasn't yet had the chance to fulfill his promise for an established player is Chelsea logic and I'd prefer not to go down that route if possible.

Heaven forbid we end up with Chelsea's success!

I did think that!

[Clark W Griswold]

Swapping a player who hasn't yet had the chance to fulfill his promise for an established player is Chelsea logic and I'd prefer not to go down that route if possible.

They haven't done too bad over the past 15-20 years though have they?

It is nice to think that players with plenty of potential should get a good crack of the whip in all cases and i certainly wouldn't write him off, looks like he's got a career ahead as a PL footballer but if they were to refuse any of our other fringe players and insist on Ramsey as part of any deal to sell JWP i'd sacrifice him for sure. This is all hypothetical of course.

[chrisw1]

Also, you can't expect a team to take our cast offs just because it suits us.  Here have Davis and Hourihane who most of us think are pretty shite and give us you best player, capatain and talisman...

So to put it more directly, if the ONLY way Southampton would deal with us for JWP was to include Ramsey in the package, would you go for it?

I would as, much as we may regret it down the line, we need to make progress over the next 2-3 seasons and I think JWP would contribute to that far more than Jacon Ramsey.

[Risso]

How would peole feel about Ramsey as a makeweight for JWP?

I know he's one of the kids and looks bright at times, but I don't se him as a 10 and we're pretty stacked in 8's.  I haven't seen him anywhere neary anybody's draft line ups.

Not for me, I thought he was excellent in the U23s and last season was always about slowly getting him into the group and giving him experience. I'd like to see how that pans out for the next year or 2 before we make a decision. He's still very young in premier league terms so it would feel like we were writing him off far too quickly.

You thinking Aaron or Jacob? I don’t see much in Jacob. Aaron I wouldn’t sell.

Jacob who has just turned 20 and has a scoring rate (from midfield) of just over 1 in 3 at every level up to the premier league. I find it bizarre that people are already willing to write him off.

I'm not writing him off, but if we had to use him as a makeweight in a deal for JWP then I could live with it. And we've had loads of kids who tore it up in the youth team and then haven't gone on to be a Premier League success.

[paul_e]

As true as that is I would prefer to not have had the equivalent of Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah on the books as teenagers, let them all leave for very little (in real terms) and then watch them win titles and spend £100m+ bringing one back to the club.

How I see it is if we give players 2-3 year contracts at 17-18 then their target in that time is to break through as regulars on the bench. If they do that then they get a new deal and this time it's a 3-5 year deal to establish themselves as part of the squad.

Ramsey has done that first part very well and got a big new contract as his reward. Now we're into the phase of him needing to work out what he needs to be to break through from being a fringe squad player to being genuinely talked about as a regular starter. Letting him go just as he's starting on that path wouldn't be a great message for the players coming through behind him. I'd prefer that we move on fringe players who are a lot older than him, especially given he's 'free' in terms of a squad place.

[not3bad]

Swapping a player who hasn't yet had the chance to fulfill his promise for an established player is Chelsea logic and I'd prefer not to go down that route if possible.

Heaven forbid we end up with Chelsea's success!

I did think that!

I think there's a right way and a wrong way to go about things. I'd prefer not to buy success (too explicitly) and I'd prefer us to give our young players a sufficient opportunity to show us their worth.

[chrisw1]

As true as that is I would prefer to not have had the equivalent of Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah on the books as teenagers, let them all leave for very little (in real terms) and then watch them win titles and spend £100m+ bringing one back to the club.

How I see it is if we give players 2-3 year contracts at 17-18 then their target in that time is to break through as regulars on the bench. If they do that then they get a new deal and this time it's a 3-5 year deal to establish themselves as part of the squad.

Ramsey has done that first part very well and got a big new contract as his reward. Now we're into the phase of him needing to work out what he needs to be to break through from being a fringe squad player to being genuinely talked about as a regular starter. Letting him go just as he's starting on that path wouldn't be a great message for the players coming through behind him. I'd prefer that we move on fringe players who are a lot older than him, especially given he's 'free' in terms of a squad place.

We'd all prefer that, however to our cost over several seasons we've found it's not that easy to move on fringe players.  I just wondered if people would be prepared to make a difficult decision to get in our seemingly number one target.  It seems people aren't ready for that which is fair enough.  Personally, if I had to sacrifce a player who 'may' go on to be as good as JWP to get JWP, in our position right now I'd take it.

[paul_e]

Also, you can't expect a team to take our cast offs just because it suits us.  Here have Davis and Hourihane who most of us think are pretty shite and give us you best player, capatain and talisman...

So to put it more directly, if the ONLY way Southampton would deal with us for JWP was to include Ramsey in the package, would you go for it?

I would as, much as we may regret it down the line, we need to make progress over the next 2-3 seasons and I think JWP would contribute to that far more than Jacon Ramsey.

Honestly I don't know, I think I'd offer them more money and the chance to take him on loan for a year and if that wasn't good enough then walk away. I really like JWP but I wouldn't be letting them dictate to us in a way that takes away a player that we clearly rate.

[paul_e]

As true as that is I would prefer to not have had the equivalent of Lukaku, De Bruyne and Salah on the books as teenagers, let them all leave for very little (in real terms) and then watch them win titles and spend £100m+ bringing one back to the club.

How I see it is if we give players 2-3 year contracts at 17-18 then their target in that time is to break through as regulars on the bench. If they do that then they get a new deal and this time it's a 3-5 year deal to establish themselves as part of the squad.

Ramsey has done that first part very well and got a big new contract as his reward. Now we're into the phase of him needing to work out what he needs to be to break through from being a fringe squad player to being genuinely talked about as a regular starter. Letting him go just as he's starting on that path wouldn't be a great message for the players coming through behind him. I'd prefer that we move on fringe players who are a lot older than him, especially given he's 'free' in terms of a squad place.

We'd all prefer that, however to our cost over several seasons we've found it's not that easy to move on fringe players.  I just wondered if people would be prepared to make a difficult decision to get in our seemingly number one target.  It seems people aren't ready for that which is fair enough.  Personally, if I had to sacrifce a player who 'may' go on to be as good as JWP to get JWP, in our position right now I'd take it.

The line before the bit you've put in bold is the most important part for me because you're not just sacrificing Ramsey, you're giving, for example, Chuk something to use against us when he's negotiating a new deal in 12months time having, similarly, established himself in our squad over the next season. It's about who we want to be as a club. Purslow has repeatedly said we want to have the best academy and to create our own future, this would be a pivotal moment in showing whether that is true or just empty words to hide behind as we replicate the chelsea and man city model of buying our way there.

[chrisw1]

All fair enough.  They probably don't wan't him anyway!

But I think we need to move away from hoping clubs will take our cast offs and being dissapointed when they tell us to f off.